Author Topic: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?  (Read 12891 times)

Geriatricdolan

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #225 on: 06 April, 2021, 11:00:42 am »
  Filling audaxes has never been so easy!

refunding riders when you have too many is the painful part...  :'(

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #226 on: 06 April, 2021, 11:54:18 am »
  Filling audaxes has never been so easy!

refunding riders when you have too many is the painful part...  :'(


No Sportives up and running? 👿

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #227 on: 06 April, 2021, 12:39:43 pm »
At this point I'm curious as to why you are answering a question that was directed at chrisbainbridge, who is a medical professional.

Chris has already refuted one of your claims when he said this..

It is highly unlikely that the amount inhaled and able to cause infection would show up on a PCR test or lateral flow test.

...which directly contradicted you.

Is this a battle between health professionals?  May we know your medical credentials please, in order that we may gauge which one of you is speaking from a position of expertise?  I'm just a layman, and reliant on those who know what they are talking about.

Nobody contradicted anybody. There was some uncertainty among some members as to which extent vaccines stop transmission, hopefully we all agree they don't... or they do to some extent, but not to a large extent. Not enough...
That's the bottom line and that's what matters, then you can go on with your semantics about the definition of the word "infection", but do it alone, possibly somewhere else
Why don't you two have a read of the Warwick modelling (just published), in particular its rubric and the first table, and then have an informed discussion on this?
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/975911/S1184_SPI-M_University_of_Warwick_Road_Map_Scenarios_and_Sensitivity.pdf
"Vaccine action. Having been vaccinated, the protection generated can affect multiple components of  the  infection, illness  and  transmission  process.  This has been updated from the original calculations and now considers four elements separately:
  • efficacy against infection;
    efficacy against disease (which also affects transmission, as our default assumption is that asymptomatic infections transmit less than symptomatic ones);
    efficacy against hospital admission and
    efficacy against ICU and death."

Geriatricdolan

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #228 on: 06 April, 2021, 01:09:13 pm »

Why don't you two have a read of the Warwick modelling (just published), in particular its rubric and the first table, and then have an informed discussion on this?


Why would I do that? If you read the title of the thread, it has nothing to do with the mechanism of action of vaccines or how infection takes hold.
It is about whether Audax will change or stay the same in the wake of the pandemic.
Incidentally, we ended up talking about whether (or not) vaccines will prevent transmission and the consensus is they will to some extent, but not to the extent required to just go around coughing in each other's face on a train as it was common place pre-2020.
So the RELEVANT question, is whether or not Audax will have to change as a result... some think yes, some think not, some interesting perspectives... and of course being YACF, a lot of the usual bullying...

I am not interested in being discredited, because there is nothing to discredit...

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #229 on: 06 April, 2021, 02:05:38 pm »

Why don't you two have a read of the Warwick modelling (just published), in particular its rubric and the first table, and then have an informed discussion on this?


Why would I do that? If you read the title of the thread, it has nothing to do with the mechanism of action of vaccines or how infection takes hold.
It is about whether Audax will change or stay the same in the wake of the pandemic.
Incidentally, we ended up talking about whether (or not) vaccines will prevent transmission and the consensus is they will to some extent, but not to the extent required to just go around coughing in each other's face on a train as it was common place pre-2020.
So the RELEVANT question, is whether or not Audax will have to change as a result... some think yes, some think not, some interesting perspectives... and of course being YACF, a lot of the usual bullying...

I am not interested in being discredited, because there is nothing to discredit...


I checked to see when vaccines were first mentioned on this thread.

Reply #7
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #230 on: 06 April, 2021, 03:00:35 pm »

I checked to see when vaccines were first mentioned on this thread.

Reply #7

Ooh!  That was below the belt.  ;)

Geriatricdolan

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #231 on: 06 April, 2021, 04:50:34 pm »


Ooh!  That was below the belt.  ;)

Bearing in mind your role within AUK, is that all you have to say?

Very disappointing... I don't mind the others, all they do is to gang up to bully other YACF users, but I wasn't really expecting that from you.

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Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #232 on: 06 April, 2021, 05:15:56 pm »
That's the thing about Ian H.  Beneath the benign old great-grandfather affectation he's a maniac.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #233 on: 06 April, 2021, 06:12:15 pm »
Never understood why someone enters an Audax and then decides the route is not good enough. These people could just do a diy?
Because cyclists are the most stubborn independent of all hobbyists. And audaxers are possibly the most so of all sub-niches.

Perhaps sometimes an organiser hasn't considered every route? Or perhaps she/he is a better climber than some riders, or more tolerant of rubbish surfaces? Or the traffic levels have changed since inceptionn.

All sorts of reasons spring to mind. And of course a DIY would take away the camaraderie at controls/HQ.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

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Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #234 on: 06 April, 2021, 06:18:38 pm »
^ mattc spaketh some sense.  ( :-* )

Also, rider's local knowledge comes into play even if they aren't local. Some orgs dont mind busy main roads. I hate them and if I can find a quiet alternative I'll take it, even if it means more hills. Organisers are (I think) obliged to take the shortest route between controls...but this doesn't mean it is the nicest route depending on the POV of the riders. Rather than bitch about it, I'll just take an alternative.

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #235 on: 06 April, 2021, 06:35:15 pm »
...and VeloViewer tiles  ::-)

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #236 on: 06 April, 2021, 06:38:45 pm »
Most people's variations on the route are the equivalent of picking olives out of the salad at a restaurant. Or occasionally, skipping the salad.

Why don't these people eat packed lunch on a park bench instead?

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #237 on: 06 April, 2021, 06:41:29 pm »
A main road might well not be chosen by the organiser as there could be a wide range of times riders will arrive at that section.  A rider might get there late in the evening and decide it is quiet enough and better than taking the “official” lane in the dark.

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Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #238 on: 06 April, 2021, 06:41:51 pm »
Most people's variations on the route are the equivalent of picking olives out of the salad at a restaurant. Or occasionally, skipping the salad.

Why don't these people eat packed lunch on a park bench instead?

If ever there was a really audaxy thing to do, that is it.

You want to be careful with posts like that. It's like touching positive poles together...you could end up blowing up the universe.

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #239 on: 06 April, 2021, 06:44:12 pm »
Packed lunch implies some careful pre planned selection of the contents. The lunch is more likely a random selection of items from a small shop or garage based on what the hunger monster is demanding. The park bench is more likely a bag of charcoal on a forecourt.

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  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #240 on: 06 April, 2021, 06:46:54 pm »
...clawing at a pot of Muller Rice with gloved fingers

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #241 on: 06 April, 2021, 06:56:16 pm »
Most people's variations on the route are the equivalent of picking olives out of the salad at a restaurant. Or occasionally, skipping the salad.

Why don't these people eat packed lunch on a park bench instead?

If ever there was a really audaxy thing to do, that is it.

You want to be careful with posts like that. It's like touching positive poles together...you could end up blowing up the universe.

Would it not be a bus shelter? Or do most people prefer not to eat in bed?

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  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #242 on: 06 April, 2021, 06:57:00 pm »
 ;D ;D

frankly frankie

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Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #243 on: 06 April, 2021, 07:38:00 pm »
That's exactly how the eBrevet app works. The unworthy are still allowed to skip the hills.

Perhaps I am missing the point, but how does this differ for a paper brevet card?   

PS.  I am a fan of the new e-brevet. It is very easy to use for both rider and organiser.  In fact there is a lot less hassle than arranging printing, labelling and distribution of hard-based cards. Completion of a brevet is also notified to the organiser via e-mail, which is great for x-rated events.   My riders also loved it when trialling it last December.

PPS. After ranting earlier about this thread going off-topic, I am now going off topic.  :-[

That reply seems perfectly on-topic to me.
you only live but once, and when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #244 on: 06 April, 2021, 08:43:54 pm »
  Filling audaxes has never been so easy!

refunding riders when you have too many is the painful part...  :'(


No Sportives up and running? 👿

Possibly but the majority are AUK members.

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #245 on: 06 April, 2021, 09:12:53 pm »
Repeated loops should no longer be outlawed.  They may not be pretty, but whenever there are restrictions on travel, they are a practical option.
Long events may, regrettably, have to be restructured - a 600 being back-to-back 300s or 400/200 for example, putting the onus on the individual rider to sort out sleep accomodation between the two.
.
Yup, sounds wholly sensible.
(The loops thing has been a no-brainer since the beginning. Except to the AUK board ... )

Maybe I am just fortunate with my local roads but I easily managed to squeeze an audax-compliant 200k into a 10k radius from my house without getting too silly.  It didn't feel too audacious but it was actually a really pleasant route that made me appreciate the variety of local scenery available to me with flat bits, lumpy bits, a bit of urban, some parks etc.



Off thread because I am not thinking of audax and certainly not AUK but THAT'S COOL :) :) As someone stuck in a 10km radius restriction it gives me real morale boosting hope - but criss-crossing Limoges could give a fearful positive altitude figure  ???

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #246 on: 06 April, 2021, 09:20:59 pm »
^ mattc spaketh some sense.  ( :-* )

Also, rider's local knowledge comes into play even if they aren't local. Some orgs dont mind busy main roads. I hate them and if I can find a quiet alternative I'll take it, even if it means more hills. Organisers are (I think) obliged to take the shortest route between controls...but this doesn't mean it is the nicest route depending on the POV of the riders. Rather than bitch about it, I'll just take an alternative.

No, the org's suggested route does not need to be the shortest distance between controls.
The shortest route may include horrendous main roads.
The org's route will likely avoid them, and so will often be slightly longer than the shortest distance.
But there is the possibility that some riders might chose the main road anyway, so even if they do, that route must also be up-to-distance. Hence the shortest distance rule.
Sometimes, orgs may add info controls to force riders down the intended route.
Mandatory routes go a step further.

Sometimes, the *best* route is not practical for an organised event, for various reasons.
Perhaps it's so navigationally challenging that it's too hard to describe on a route-sheet, for example.


Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #247 on: 06 April, 2021, 10:00:45 pm »
Repeated loops should no longer be outlawed.  They may not be pretty, but whenever there are restrictions on travel, they are a practical option.
Long events may, regrettably, have to be restructured - a 600 being back-to-back 300s or 400/200 for example, putting the onus on the individual rider to sort out sleep accomodation between the two.
.
Yup, sounds wholly sensible.
(The loops thing has been a no-brainer since the beginning. Except to the AUK board ... )

Maybe I am just fortunate with my local roads but I easily managed to squeeze an audax-compliant 200k into a 10k radius from my house without getting too silly.  It didn't feel too audacious but it was actually a really pleasant route that made me appreciate the variety of local scenery available to me with flat bits, lumpy bits, a bit of urban, some parks etc.



Off thread because I am not thinking of audax and certainly not AUK but THAT'S COOL :) :) As someone stuck in a 10km radius restriction it gives me real morale boosting hope - but criss-crossing Limoges could give a fearful positive altitude figure  ???

Strava reckons that that was 1842m of climbing so not stupid hilly but certainly not flat.

Geriatricdolan

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #248 on: 07 April, 2021, 06:43:50 am »
well, I am glad the discussion has moved towards topics completely irrelevant to the original thread...

Just waiting for someone to chip in with anecdotes on bench-sleeping and mandatory routes...




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  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #249 on: 07 April, 2021, 07:44:33 am »
There are no rules about staying on topic. It is one of the charms of yacf. Threads that ramble back and forth, to and fro, here and there. Meandering... like a non-mandatory audax route through deep-wooded river valleys and desert plains, just pausing briefly for refreshing slumber in a rough hewn stone bus shelter, tummy replete with forecourt pasty, frij and a bag of foam bananas. Dreaming of stamped brevet cards and hairy old men.

If you don't like it you could always leave and come back again.