Yet Another Cycling Forum

Off Topic => The Pub => Topic started by: clarion on 27 February, 2018, 11:59:29 am

Title: Flights of Fancy
Post by: clarion on 27 February, 2018, 11:59:29 am
I know I'm not the only one here who likes radio controlled (and freeflight) aircraft, so I wonder if it would be a good idea to have a thread dedicated to tales of flying, of building (and the frustrations therewith), and pictures of model planes?

TimC's plane does not count!
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: matthew on 27 February, 2018, 12:04:48 pm
TimC's plane does not count!

But, but, but...

TimC's plane is fly by wire.  :P
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: clarion on 27 February, 2018, 01:26:02 pm
In the interests of balance, I think I should also rule out Bomber's current vehicle ;)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: nicknack on 27 February, 2018, 03:12:38 pm
I don't do model planes (at least, not for 50 something years) but NASA does. (https://www.nasa.gov/centers/armstrong/features/microcub_first_flight.html)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Beardy on 27 February, 2018, 03:23:22 pm
Having flown ones you sit in I've never really gone back to model planes much the same as I can't bring myself to sail model boats.

That said, I'm currently looking at buying a multi-prop VTOL drone for photographic purposes
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 27 February, 2018, 08:42:54 pm
Surprised that ElyDave & AndyTheFlyer haven't dropped by yet.

Points at  Hip Pocket Aeronautics. (http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php) Lots of build threads in all disciplines there and a couple of threads given over to flight videos.  You may recognise at least one bod there.  :)


And these links are especially for Ham *evil cackle* but mebbe Clarion might like them.  ElyDave & AndyTheFlyer have already been bored witless by them. :)

K5083 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/41392773@N02/sets/72157687314486040)
Camel (https://www.flickr.com/photos/41392773@N02/sets/72157683218588084)

Quote from: Beardy
Having flown ones you sit in I've never really gone back to model planes
S'diffrent.  Flying an aeroplane is more umm demanding both in the seat* of a full size aircraft and RC, but free flight - which I prefer to RC - is generally more about relaxation.   Once you've got the model trimmed (and that can be fraught sometimes) you launch it then stand back and watch it do its thing.  And rubber power models are delightfully quiet so you can go flying at double-oh silly O'clock in the summer and not disturb people.

ETA.
Hip Pocket has an extensive plan gallery, which you'll have to sign up for but if you want free plans Outerzone is a good source.




*I'm an expert me; aye right.  Got a couple of hours / 20 training flights as P2 on K13 gliders.  Loved it but models are far more affordable.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: jiberjaber on 27 February, 2018, 09:12:01 pm
Unfortunately I found bike riding and rc not compatible as when it was nice and sunny I would be out on my bike rather in a field flying a glider.... so after 7 years or so, I've sold most of my hanger though have still kept my DLGs but suspect I really should sell them as well. 

Before the gliders was helicopters, but found flying gliders far more interesting and challenging so moved totally in to that...   I almost moved on to full size gliders but my weight at the time prohibited me... not the case now but I suspect I wouldn't be able to combine both bikes and gliders....
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Kim on 27 February, 2018, 09:18:27 pm
Well clearly not.  Combine a bicycle with a glider and you've got a human-powered aircraft, innit.   :P
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: jiberjaber on 27 February, 2018, 09:42:05 pm
Well clearly not.  Combine a bicycle with a glider and you've got a human-powered aircraft, innit.   
It was considered at one point :)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 28 February, 2018, 04:42:20 pm
Surprised that ElyDave & AndyTheFlyer haven't dropped by yet.

I'm here - but as well as 'monitoring' YACF, I have my sax practice to do (in the house rather than my practice room (AKA the conservatory - where it's bloody freezing...)) whilst the wife's out playing bridge or at her flute lesson - and hence not remarking at just how LOUD a sax can be, and I've also got a new wing in build for my Partenavia P68.  This time with GRP nacelles rather than the horrible built-up balsa and ply nacelles I concocted when I first built the aircraft about 5 years ago as my second twin trainer.

So, some aeromodellers have things to do other than monitoring YACF! ;D
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Jayjay on 28 February, 2018, 09:29:08 pm
The last model and bicycle combination I pedalled was Mirus bungeed to the rack to go down t'field. That was a long time ago, but I did stuff a Hubsan quadcopter in the pannier to work a year or two ago. Stuff might fit on the trailer with a suitable carrier fabricated, but it's a bouncy ride.
Long time flier though weekly indoor sessions in the village hall are where it's been for some time now.
I rode past t'field on Saturday, but the (East facing clifftop) grass was deserted. The icy North Sea air may have had something to do with that.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: clarion on 28 February, 2018, 10:37:41 pm
I am pondering the idea of a bike trailer to ferry planes to the field...
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 01 March, 2018, 08:36:17 am
I am pondering the idea of a bike trailer to ferry planes to the field...

You could do a scaled down version of one of these:

(http://www.gliderguider.net/images/trailer/komet_eco_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Butterfly on 01 March, 2018, 08:52:24 am
I am pondering the idea of a bike trailer to ferry planes to the field...

You could do a scaled down version of one of these:

(http://www.gliderguider.net/images/trailer/komet_eco_500.jpg)
:thumbsup: I reckon that would be great!


I am pondering the idea of a bike trailer to ferry planes to the field...

And a mud bike? It would be easier to get out of the field than Red Ted :-[
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Beardy on 01 March, 2018, 09:26:44 am
I am pondering the idea of a bike trailer to ferry planes to the field...

You could do a scaled down version of one of these:

(http://www.gliderguider.net/images/trailer/komet_eco_500.jpg)
Ah, an occasionally mobile glider storage box popular because the outside ground space is considerably cheaper to rent than the in hanger space :) I think the majority of them could have their wheels taken off without any real impact in their functionality.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: clarion on 01 March, 2018, 09:49:18 am
Although, tbf, we did see quite a few on the road last time we came up from Worthing.

Yes, that is absolutely the trailer I need! :D

And, yes, Butterfly, mud is clearly an issue there :/
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Torslanda on 01 March, 2018, 12:01:46 pm
So you need a fatbike to tow it.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: cycleman on 01 March, 2018, 12:57:14 pm
And just think of how much camping kit you could get in that trailer  :D
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Butterfly on 01 March, 2018, 12:58:27 pm
And just think of how much camping kit you could get in that trailer  :D

Now you're talking!
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: clarion on 01 March, 2018, 02:18:21 pm
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andrewc on 01 March, 2018, 02:24:22 pm
And just think of how much camping kit you could get in that trailer  :D

Now you're talking!

And you're getting an electric tandem to help with the towing ....  :D
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: clarion on 01 March, 2018, 02:27:24 pm
I think the aim is to slow me down
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Pedaldog on 02 March, 2018, 10:33:19 pm
I am pondering the idea of a bike trailer to ferry planes to the field...

Planning on modifying the old Pashley town bike as a Long-bike for that purpose. Wings one side, fuselage other side. RC gear, batteries/fuel on top.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 10 March, 2018, 08:21:26 pm
Something simple to keep me busy whilst I'm waiting for good weather for trimming K5083.  Back to my aeromodelling roots with another slab sided glider.
 West Wings Swallow (https://www.flickr.com/photos/41392773@N02/sets/72157692582049641)

First wood cut today, but last weekend was given over to sorting out templates for the ribs 'cos the die cutcrushed sheets are, basically, unusable. Really wish they'd gone for print-wood for them, at least that way the wood wouldn't have been wasted.

It's a shame that West Wings are no longer trading because this is a lovely simple design and promises to be a straight-forward build, but... the kit did come with some traditional KeilKraft Oak of late and unlamented memory.  Check out the weights for the port & starboard fuselage front sections!
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Morat on 11 March, 2018, 09:22:15 pm
I have a West Wings model kit for a Hawker Hart awaiting time and attention. If West Wings have gone bust I wonder if it would be ethical to provide copies of the plans?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 12 March, 2018, 05:50:30 am
It was a retirement shutdown, back in Nov. Spoke to one of the owners in May last year and they were having trouble finding a buyer but were hoping they would.

I should think all IPR still held by the original owners so probably not a good idea to put copies of the plan up without approaching them first.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Morat on 12 March, 2018, 07:33:57 am
Thanks for the info! I hope WW comes back  with their full range.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Beardy on 12 March, 2018, 09:08:40 am
I've made the afore mentioned purchase of a Drone and am currently awaiting it's delivery. Watch the 'Crap carries' tread for adventures in DPD land
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: clarion on 12 March, 2018, 10:59:14 am
Sad to hear.  Yes, their kits are spoken of highly.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 26 March, 2018, 08:25:39 pm
Oh dear.  Never mind; balsa's cheap and it'll only take a couple or three hours to cut a new set.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/802/41033452471_9522d2441d_z_d.jpg)

Top tip.  When drawing new rib templates* take measurements from plan and not from the die cut parts when marking positions for the spar slots.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4781/38922327420_70720600d4_m_d.jpg)


*If anyone is interested I have some noddy C# code to create svgs of aerofoils suitable for use in Inkscape or a.n.other vector graphics prog.  Code + ~1500 ready generated 100mm chord aerofoils here. (http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=10054)  I chose 100mm cos it's dead easy to work out scaling for other sizes in your head.

You'll need to sign up to download from HPA, but I'm happy to send out copies in e-mail.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: clarion on 27 March, 2018, 01:12:32 pm
Oops!
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 21 April, 2018, 03:32:46 pm
First decent flying weather since late Oct. last year

New winding stooge in action on hollow threaded rod (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=106999.msg2278794#msg2278794)  thread.

And a short video of a mate flying my build (cos I kept stuffing up the launches).

Jack Plane flies No 5 properly. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/41392773@N02/41546846182/)

For those interested in detail.  Single loop of 3/16" flight rubber length about* 1.6 peg to prop, braided, on 450 turns.

*New motor made up in a bit of rush Thurs. so less "measure twice, cut once",  more "that looks about long enough, crack on".
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Torslanda on 21 April, 2018, 07:36:47 pm
Today marks the centenary of the death of Manfred von Richtofen.

Thought it appropriate to mark it here.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Kim on 21 April, 2018, 08:19:02 pm
Today marks the centenary of the death of Manfred von Richtofen.

So glad I didn't learn that until *after* today's BHPC racing.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Torslanda on 21 April, 2018, 11:22:17 pm
Today marks the centenary of the death of Manfred von Richtofen.

So glad I didn't learn that until *after* today's BHPC racing.

You'll have to explain that . . .
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 22 April, 2018, 07:32:32 am
Today marks the centenary of the death of Manfred von Richtofen.

So glad I didn't learn that until *after* today's BHPC racing.

You'll have to explain that . . .
IIRC someone OTP has a darkside machine called, "The Red Baron".
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Torslanda on 22 April, 2018, 09:20:14 am
And someone else is a tad dense...
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 29 April, 2018, 07:37:48 pm
Formal naming complete and now waiting decent weather for trimming.  So first flight some time about August eh?

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/908/41742073912_cc4be0afc5_z_d.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/943/27915048348_37b35bc532_z_d.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 29 April, 2018, 10:26:33 pm
I'd post a few pics of my model aeroplanes, but I still can't work out how to get a pic to show here (despite reading the sticky) - I can work out how to insert a link to a Flickr file, but not how to get the pic to show here.  Anybody help out a Luddite pls?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Beardy on 30 April, 2018, 08:18:23 am
That has a K6 look about it, if the K6 was squarish like the Swallow and not all round like a K6. 🤯
Perhaps it has a Swallow look about it 😁
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 30 April, 2018, 07:44:51 pm
That has a K6 look about it, if the K6 was squarish like the Swallow and not all round like a K6. 🤯
Perhaps it has a Swallow look about it 😁
It's probably the fin & rudder although I think the K13's fin & rudder are more like the Swallow's than the K6.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 30 April, 2018, 07:57:20 pm
I'd post a few pics of my model aeroplanes, but I still can't work out how to get a pic to show here (despite reading the sticky) - I can work out how to insert a link to a Flickr file, but not how to get the pic to show here.  Anybody help out a Luddite pls?
See yer PM. :)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 30 April, 2018, 08:35:57 pm
Thx to The Lurker OTP, I may be able to post some pics - here's one to start with.  Airsail Auster, 30cc petrol.  Built 2011

(http://[url=https://flic.kr/p/XdxTQ5][img]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4322/36241643016_aa51dea683_z.jpg)[/url]03-IMG_0189 (https://flic.kr/p/XdxTQ5) by AndyFtheflyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/51992734@N06/), on Flickr[/img]
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 30 April, 2018, 08:45:04 pm
ftfy
Thx to The Lurker OTP, I may be able to post some pics - here's one to start with.  Airsail Auster, 30cc petrol.  Built 2011

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4322/36241643016_aa51dea683_z.jpg)

by AndyFtheflyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/51992734@N06/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 30 April, 2018, 08:46:43 pm
ftfy
Thx to The Lurker OTP, I may be able to post some pics - here's one to start with.  Airsail Auster, 30cc petrol.  Built 2011

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4322/36241643016_aa51dea683_z.jpg)

by AndyFtheflyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/51992734@N06/), on Flickr

How did you do that??  The pic does not show on my laptop......
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 30 April, 2018, 08:48:40 pm
Like this:

Code: [Select]
[img]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4322/36241643016_aa51dea683_z.jpg[/img]
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 05 May, 2018, 09:00:11 am
Stickleback's a flier.  Sighs of relief and celebratory drinks all around in the boardroom at Lurker Industries. A couple of early proving flights from last night.

Proving Flight No. 1 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/41392773@N02/40992675815/in/album-72157692582049641/)

Proving Flight No. 2 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/41392773@N02/28021748158/in/album-72157692582049641/)


Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 06 May, 2018, 08:22:08 am
K5083's a flier. Low power trials (about 1/6th max) and initial trimming yesterday.

I managed to get footage of one of the very early flights without dropping the camera or getting nothing but sky :
Room for improvement. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/41392773@N02/41009639125/in/album-72157687314486040/)

As is typical I have no footage of the better flights (I really do need a third hand for the camera), but if you're considering building a kit Hurricane at this sort of scale (1/24 to 1/32) then Andrew Darby's design for VMC flies more or less off the board which is impressive for a small low-wing monoplane model.

There'll be the usual trim adjustments to make as I bring the power up and, as I feared might be the case, I'll probably have to lose the spinner* to get a reliable freewheel and therefore a decent glide phase.  Not obvious from that video, but on the later flights I could see the wind resistance kick the prop back against the motor at the end of the power run and act as a socking great air brake turning the glide into a dive.   

*It was obvious when I built it that room was tight and the shaft was occasionally catching on the inside of the spinner preventing freewheel so I'm not as upset as I might otherwise have been.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 12 May, 2018, 08:06:42 pm
Fun morning out at Uffington with the Swallow and a mate. Ideal conditions for a lightweight (AUW ~ 80g) stick and tissue FF glider.

Needed a bit of additional trimming (https://photos.app.goo.gl/1DF7BZB70i7DdGO32) after last week's initial proving flights.

Lost the port wing (https://photos.app.goo.gl/qaj2j6ybi6DR8tUS2) on final tow of the day.  Best guess is due to damage sustained on an earlier very, very hard landing when the tow didn't let go. 

Of course we didn't film the previous flight which was text book.  Hey ho.

Should be repairable. If not werl a new wing is easy enough to build.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/960/42063983191_8ee4949d83_z_d.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 07 July, 2018, 01:16:06 pm
Patched up the Swallow's wing over the wet bank holiday weekend a week or 5 back; remember "wet"? No, me neither. Had it's first proper outing post-fettle at the Oxford rally on Port Meadow last weekend and it flew well off the bungee; even managed one flight over a minute.  I'm claiming it was one minute 10 seconds, but that's not an official time.

Took it out this morning to try bungee launching in the (relatively) small field close to home that I use for most of my flying and managed to get some good flights out of it, including this one (https://www.flickr.com/photos/41392773@N02/43253754971/in/album-72157698791156425/).  Not the best of the day, but a good flight nonetheless  and I wasn't going to waste good gawping time trying to film every flight. :)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 07 July, 2018, 05:18:49 pm
Brave man.  You put all that emotional investment into a model, then you propel it into the aether with a big rubber band and hope it comes down a) in one piece, and b) somewhere that you can get it back.

Brave man.  At least I get a modicum of choice over where I bring it back to earth.  Usually.  Well, within 50m anyway.

Does it need a tad of down trim?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 07 July, 2018, 05:49:07 pm
Quote from: andytheflyer
Brave man.  You put all that emotional investment into a model then you propel it...
That's one of the things I like about smallish stick & tissue gliders, especially slab-siders.  They're fairly cheap and quick to build.  Only a week or 3 unlike the 3 year projects you go for. :)  So although you do get a bit upset when they come to their, inevitable, sticky end it's a shame, but not heart-breaking. Let's face it; in this hobby gravity is always going to win in the long run, the best you can hope for is a decent string of no score draws before that.

Quote from: andytheflyer
... choice over where I bring it back to earth.  Usually.  Well, within 50m anyway.
Ach havers man. It came down in the same county. What more do you need? :D

Quote from: andytheflyer
Does it need a tad of down trim?
It needed a touch more weight up front.  I'd trimmed it for the very calm conditions prevailing at the beginning of the session, but the breeze was building and a bit gusty by the time I bothered to record any footage.  Slapped some blu-tack on which got rid of that "stally" behaviour you can see.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 19 August, 2018, 05:22:18 pm
Been boring AndyTheFlyer with this one for a few weeks now.  One off the ark.  A 1948 design from Roland Scott, the Walthew MK II, which had been on my build list since summer of '73.  Finally got hold of a fairly grubby and partly illegible PDF copy of the plan at the beginning of June which I was able to tidy up in Inkscape using an old, but legible, photo of the plan.  For those that are sufficiently interested I've posted the cleaned up plan and some other bits and bobs on both Outerzone and Hip Pocket Aeronautics Plans Gallery.  And yes, the tumbler was put to a more appropriate and celebratory use after the photo. shoot. :)

{edited to remove dead links to deleted flickr acct}
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 01 September, 2018, 08:39:35 am
It flies.  Have managed to coax it up to 27s so far.  Hoping to improve on that with a longer tow/bungee when I can get it out to a field larger than my proving ground.   This flight is about 22s. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/41392773@N02/43672582554/in/album-72157698412359154/)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 09 September, 2018, 11:47:27 am
Don't think this is general interest so dumping it here.

For U.K. viewers and those who can fool their various on-demand players into thinking they're in the UK.

Channel 4 20:00 BST (1900 GMT)
"Battle of Britain : Model Squadron"  Part 1 of a 3 part series.
Recreation of significant BoB events using RC models. 

No idea whether it's any good or not. No idea whether or not there'll be a decent amount of detail about the models or not.  Have to suck it and see.

I was going to link to Channel 4's website, but it uses that well known virus vector Adobe Flash player so I won't.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 09 September, 2018, 01:22:13 pm
No idea whether it's any good or not. No idea whether or not there'll be a decent amount of detail about the models or not.  Have to suck it and see.

I've put it on to record, but TBH I'm not exactly expecting any discussion of the relative merits of Laser engines over MOKIs, or air over electric retracts...…

I am expecting to see a number of plastic almost-ready-to-fly electric sanitised super-clean lumps of far-eastern irreparable tat bite the dust though.  Good.  As long as no lovingly and painstakingly hand-built realistically-scaled and detailed models bite the dust.

If you want to fly them, learn to build them first...... (..puts on tin helmet and crawls under a stone...)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 10 September, 2018, 06:36:06 am
Model Squadron.  Don't think I'll bother with parts 2 & 3.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 22 November, 2018, 09:02:44 pm
Documentary on the recovery of a PRU Spitfire serial AA810. Wreck recovered in "good" condition and is to be rebuilt.

 - BBC4
 - Wednesday 28th Nov.

Some background here :
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/spitfire-norway-mountain-great-escape-pilot-found-second-world-war-nazi-raf-espionage-alastair-gunn-a8646841.html

Ionic Wind Power proved feasible.  Looks like it might be a fun technology for us (aeromodellers) at some point in the future.

Rubbish article title.  They seem to have overlooked gliders, should be first ever powered aeroplane with no moving parts. :)

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/nov/21/first-ever-plane-with-no-moving-parts-takes-flight
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 22 November, 2018, 09:16:29 pm
I had the same reaction when I saw that this morning.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: philip on 26 November, 2018, 11:10:40 pm
Nine coupled planes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrJgoQz5wSU

A description of the controls: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWGqs3zqttA
Driving the 9 elevators differentially gives roll control, driving the 9 motors differentially gives yaw control.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: jiberjaber on 27 November, 2018, 08:24:01 am
Nine coupled planes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrJgoQz5wSU

A description of the controls: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWGqs3zqttA
Driving the 9 elevators differentially gives roll control, driving the 9 motors differentially gives yaw control.

Similar, Red Arrows at Mill Hill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-Lkf2he0Po
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 27 November, 2018, 08:55:07 am
Nine coupled planes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrJgoQz5wSU

A description of the controls: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWGqs3zqttA
Driving the 9 elevators differentially gives roll control, driving the 9 motors differentially gives yaw control.

That guy has waaay too much time on his hands.  Very impressive catch on t/o though - I was fairly certain he wasn't going to make it in the first few seconds.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 27 November, 2018, 12:46:16 pm
Rubbish article title.  They seem to have overlooked gliders, should be first ever powered aeroplane with no moving parts. :)

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/nov/21/first-ever-plane-with-no-moving-parts-takes-flight
Erm, aren't gliders 'unpowered'?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: T42 on 27 November, 2018, 01:01:07 pm
Ionic Wind Power proved feasible.  Looks like it might be a fun technology for us (aeromodellers) at some point in the future.

Rubbish article title.  They seem to have overlooked gliders, should be first ever powered aeroplane with no moving parts. :)

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/nov/21/first-ever-plane-with-no-moving-parts-takes-flight

All I saw in the video was a hand- or catapult-launched glider. Or did it land even sooner with the engine off?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 27 November, 2018, 08:14:35 pm
Rubbish article title.  They seem to have overlooked gliders, should be first ever powered aeroplane with no moving parts. :)

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/nov/21/first-ever-plane-with-no-moving-parts-takes-flight
Erm, aren't gliders 'unpowered'?
Yeah, good point.  :)   

Although in my defence I will say your, wholly accurate, remark reinforces just how badly titled the article was and anyway the gliders *I* build don't have moving parts.  Who needs moving control surfaces any way? New fangled rubbish. :)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Beardy on 28 November, 2018, 08:30:36 am
Having had a moment of flying a glider without ailerons when a jetesoned tow rope briefly jammed in one of them, I’d say that I’m a BIG supporter of control surfaces. 🤓
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 28 November, 2018, 09:18:05 am
Documentary on the recovery of a PRU Spitfire serial AA810. Wreck recovered in "good" condition and is to be rebuilt.

 - BBC4
 - Wednesday 28th Nov.

Some background here :
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/spitfire-norway-mountain-great-escape-pilot-found-second-world-war-nazi-raf-espionage-alastair-gunn-a8646841.html

Looks like a good excuse to surreptitiously watch the presenter....again…...
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 28 November, 2018, 01:26:07 pm
having read that, I'll definitely be watching

EDIT - And Neil Oliver on the Vikings beforehand, seems like a good evening - I'm currently reading his book
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: rafletcher on 30 November, 2018, 01:33:06 pm
Documentary on the recovery of a PRU Spitfire serial AA810. Wreck recovered in "good" condition and is to be rebuilt.


Hmm, didn't look to be in that good a condition.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 30 November, 2018, 07:24:45 pm
Documentary on the recovery of a PRU Spitfire serial AA810. Wreck recovered in "good" condition and is to be rebuilt.


Hmm, didn't look to be in that good a condition.

They said they'd found 70% of the aeroplane.  But nothing seemed to be bigger than a backpack.  Not sure I'd fancy flying a re-built aeroplane when the spars had been re-assembled from scraps of aluminium!

If it ever flies again, it'll be a completely new airframe, with a new engine, and maybe the original makers plate.  When I crash a model aeroplane that completely (rarely these days, thankfully), the bits go in a bin bag, and then the bin, having recovered the re-usable bits first.  That's where this one's heading.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 30 November, 2018, 07:37:13 pm
Quite,  I think more a case of using the original as a pattern rather than rebuilding it. 

It looked more like an AAIB case to me.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 30 November, 2018, 07:59:49 pm
Documentary on the recovery of a PRU Spitfire serial AA810. Wreck recovered in "good" condition and is to be rebuilt.


Hmm, didn't look to be in that good a condition.
Not that surprised and I wasn't expecting it to be in terribly good condition at all hence the quote marks in my summary, but it does sound as though either the journalist or the reconstruction team were over-egging the pudding.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Zipperhead on 30 November, 2018, 09:30:12 pm
If it ever flies again, it'll be a completely new airframe, with a new engine, and maybe the original makers plate.  When I crash a model aeroplane that completely (rarely these days, thankfully), the bits go in a bin bag, and then the bin, having recovered the re-usable bits first.  That's where this one's heading.

I had an interesting with someone not long ago, not a person given to bullshitting. He was telling me about the Hurricane that he bought. He'd heard that it has crashed in a field and was still there. He went and agreed a price for it with the farmer and brought in a digger to excavate the approximately 1m cube (he showed me the pictures). Because the manufacturers plate was intact he sold the wreckage on a few weeks later for a 50% mark up - and it was "restored" to flying condition.

Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: bomber on 01 December, 2018, 11:36:37 am
In the interests of balance, I think I should also rule out Bomber's current vehicle ;)

Smaller than some UAVs!
Although definitely not fly by wire :-p
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Jakob W on 02 December, 2018, 10:59:42 am
If it ever flies again, it'll be a completely new airframe, with a new engine, and maybe the original makers plate.  When I crash a model aeroplane that completely (rarely these days, thankfully), the bits go in a bin bag, and then the bin, having recovered the re-usable bits first.  That's where this one's heading.

I had an interesting with someone not long ago, not a person given to bullshitting. He was telling me about the Hurricane that he bought. He'd heard that it has crashed in a field and was still there. He went and agreed a price for it with the farmer and brought in a digger to excavate the approximately 1m cube (he showed me the pictures). Because the manufacturers plate was intact he sold the wreckage on a few weeks later for a 50% mark up - and it was "restored" to flying condition.

IIRC having the maker's plate means that you can register the rebuild with the CAA as a restauration rather than a new-build, which makes life easier from a regulatory point of view. This seems like a bit of a daft loophole, but I suppose it's unlikely to be seriously abused.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 15 December, 2018, 10:29:12 pm
Haven't sorted out an alternative to flickr/smaug mug yet so you'll have to make do with the thumbnails at the bottom of this post.

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=11333.msg234731#msg234731
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 21 February, 2019, 08:00:00 pm
Ordinarily this sort of thing should go in the "I'm a Div" thread, but it's a bit niche so it's here.

Everything seemed to be going so well too.  Read how things degenerate after this post.  Who forgot to check the source plan against a three view? (http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=23902.msg238122#msg238122)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: clarion on 21 February, 2019, 10:07:32 pm
:D :D :D
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Mr Larrington on 22 February, 2019, 11:28:26 am
"Access Forbidden"

That which Man was Not Meant to Know?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: spesh on 22 February, 2019, 12:09:49 pm
"Access Forbidden"

That which Man was Not Meant to Know?

There's Lurker's problem, the source plan's geometry was non-Euclidian.  :demon:

Joking apart, the link works for me, so maybe the server had a funny five minutes...
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 22 February, 2019, 01:22:41 pm
"Access Forbidden"

That which Man was Not Meant to Know?
Aye, look not upon these works mortal lest ye be forever accursed. :)

Have another go, there have been intermittent probs. with the HPA server.  You should have read access.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 22 February, 2019, 01:53:28 pm
I'm saying nothing.  The one I have like this is in the attic, stripped of everything re-usable.  After only 2 flights.  That's a couple of hundred hours I'll never get back.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 23 February, 2019, 07:26:09 am
Quote from: AndyTheFlyer
... That's a couple of hundred hours I'll never get back.
That must be deeply galling.  I'm not too upset as there's not that much sunk cost in this one and it was planned as a shakedown build of the plan to take account of revisions I'd made so the possibility of it being a complete failure was built into my expectations.  It's more a case of feeling very silly for having taken on trust a plan of a type in active service drawn up in the middle of a war with very few or no decent reference documents available.
 
Anyway, after much swithering I've redrawn the fuselage plan.  If you hop over to my build thread on HPA my last post has a couple  of attachments showing the current state of things.  There's a "make it bigger button" on the thumbnail viewer which I recommend you click if you do have a dekko. There still some minor tinkering to be done, odd gusset here and there, shuffling of UC mounting points, but I should be in a position to start on a new fuselage in the next few days.

Lurk.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Si S on 02 March, 2019, 06:40:01 pm
Well I managed to keep my WOT4 in the sky for a full 5 minutes without my instructor having to rescue it.

Still nowhere near landing yet. Not easy this, especially in today's wind.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 03 March, 2019, 08:16:13 am
Well I managed to keep my WOT4 in the sky for a full 5 minutes without my instructor having to rescue it.

Still nowhere near landing yet. Not easy this, especially in today's wind.

Well done!  They are brilliant models, as is the Wots Wot.  They fly accurately, you can aerobat them all day, they are tough, and although you can wring their necks once you build up some skill, they will also fly slowly and calmly if you so desire.  Great on a sultry summer's afternoon.

I 'retired' mine 3 years ago because I always took it to the strip and usually flew it rather than my more challenging twins.  I needed to wean myself off it.  But now I've restored it so I can get my act together and do my 'B' this year.

Whilst you need to build up to landings (they are compulsory you know) sometimes a breezy day is easier to fly in than a calm one with a Wot4.  They float for miles on finals if you don't have a headwind.  I've put flaps on mine for that eventuality.

If you haven't already, screw the undercart on with nylon bolts - that will save the undercarriage plate in the event of an arrival, but you'll need some spares too! ModelFixings have loads of nylon bolts.

Keep us posted on progress!
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 03 March, 2019, 12:27:02 pm
Well I managed to keep my WOT4 in the sky for a full 5 minutes without my instructor having to rescue it.
Dead impressed cos I haven't got clue when it comes to RC stuff.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Vince on 03 March, 2019, 12:47:51 pm
If you hop over to my build thread on HPA my last post has a couple  of attachments showing the current state of things. 

You called the plane Fat Boab????
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 03 March, 2019, 02:00:30 pm
If you hop over to my build thread on HPA my last post has a couple  of attachments showing the current state of things. 

You called the plane Fat Boab????

I did.  A nod to my, "Sunday Post" reading childhood.  However fuselage No.1 has been scrapped as above and construction of No. 2, christened, with as fine a sense of irony as one could hope to find, "Wee Eck" (http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=23902.msg238771#msg238771), is well underway.

Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 03 March, 2019, 02:49:09 pm
If you hop over to my build thread on HPA my last post has a couple  of attachments showing the current state of things. 

You called the plane Fat Boab????

I did.  A nod to my, "Sunday Post" reading childhood.  However fuselage No.1 has been scrapped as above and construction of No. 2, christened, with as fine a sense of irony as one could hope to find, "Wee Eck" (http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=23902.msg238771#msg238771), is well underway.

Ah, you knew it made sense!  On maiden day the extra few hours building No. 2 will all be forgotten as the beautiful, refined, graceful lines of the Horsa clump around the sky like a lead brick, before cropping the grass to ground level in a perfect maiden flight. You know I'm right!  It'll all be worth it, and more importantly, you know it was the right thing to do. 
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Si S on 04 March, 2019, 08:43:30 am
Well I managed to keep my WOT4 in the sky for a full 5 minutes without my instructor having to rescue it.

Still nowhere near landing yet. Not easy this, especially in today's wind.

Well done!  They are brilliant models, as is the Wots Wot.  They fly accurately, you can aerobat them all day, they are tough, and although you can wring their necks once you build up some skill, they will also fly slowly and calmly if you so desire.  Great on a sultry summer's afternoon.

I 'retired' mine 3 years ago because I always took it to the strip and usually flew it rather than my more challenging twins.  I needed to wean myself off it.  But now I've restored it so I can get my act together and do my 'B' this year.

Whilst you need to build up to landings (they are compulsory you know) sometimes a breezy day is easier to fly in than a calm one with a Wot4.  They float for miles on finals if you don't have a headwind.  I've put flaps on mine for that eventuality.

If you haven't already, screw the undercart on with nylon bolts - that will save the undercarriage plate in the event of an arrival, but you'll need some spares too! ModelFixings have loads of nylon bolts.

Keep us posted on progress!

Thanks for the tips Andy.

That was my 5th visit to the field with it, so probably about 40 mins actually on the sticks, I can see progress every time I go up, the first time was hilarious - every time I tried to turn it'd just plummet, being a total noob to flying it's a great example of theory vs reality. As I say I'm getting there, need to work on flying rectangles as opposed to ellipses, weirdly I find flying a figure of eight easier than I can a rectangle, but the A test wants rectangles not ellipses and the club don't let you fly on your own without an A.

I'm in no hurry with it and the club seems ok, never been a 'club person' so this was a bit of a worry, but the folks seem ok and the set-up is good - we've got two strips, one of which is shared with Lancs Aero Club so it's uber long along with a couple of portacabins for brewing / charging/ hiding from the rain. I've been using Picasim on the PC with a dongle and can get that to land about half the time.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 04 March, 2019, 11:21:02 am
Thanks for the tips Andy.

That was my 5th visit to the field with it, so probably about 40 mins actually on the sticks, I can see progress every time I go up, the first time was hilarious - every time I tried to turn it'd just plummet, being a total noob to flying it's a great example of theory vs reality. As I say I'm getting there, need to work on flying rectangles as opposed to ellipses, weirdly I find flying a figure of eight easier than I can a rectangle, but the A test wants rectangles not ellipses and the club don't let you fly on your own without an A.

I'm in no hurry with it and the club seems ok, never been a 'club person' so this was a bit of a worry, but the folks seem ok and the set-up is good - we've got two strips, one of which is shared with Lancs Aero Club so it's uber long along with a couple of portacabins for brewing / charging/ hiding from the rain. I've been using Picasim on the PC with a dongle and can get that to land about half the time.
You are doing the right thing by learning with a club - model aeroplanes can be deadly if they get away from you, and flying with others in a club will instil strip and circuit discipline - and you'll enjoy the challenge of improving too.  And the round of applause you'll get from a greased landing will be very heart-warming!

By now you'll have twigged bank and yank to keep the altitude constant in a turn, and hopefully the reversal of the aileron stick when flying towards you.  If you have difficulty in maintaining level flight have a look at exponential on the elevator stick - you can de-sensitise the control around the mid point so it makes it less sensitive in straight and level.

Landing is not that hard - don't fly too slowly or you'll end up with a stall or a hard landing as it drops suddenly. It's a bit counter-intuitive and I used to fly too slowly all the time.  Fly in a bit faster and you'll have more control (or. conversely, smaller bits to pick up...…)

It's all about throttle (you may need to keep blipping it to bring it home) and the flare near the ground with the elevator - that expo can help here.  As the ground effect kicks in you need less elevator, so de-sensitising the elevator can help. If you fly too slowly, you lose elevator authority.

There's no better sensation than a greased landing - on the odd occasions I manage it it gives me a real buzz.

And learn to land in both directions!

Keep going - loads to learn, and you'll soon get your A. No stopping you then!  Which club are you with?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Si S on 04 March, 2019, 12:30:47 pm
I'm with Warrington Model Club, I did several months of research about learning this before buying and visited a couple of clubs before settling on this one because they were so helpful and welcoming initially.

Level flight is pretty much there, aileron reversal came naturally from years of racing model cars. Throttle is probably my biggest struggle at the minute, I have a tendency to just leave it set which means I zoom downwind and crawl back into the wind (in terms of ground speed). Started to solve this on Saturday, 33 mph gusts meant I had no choice when it started flying backwards briefly. My throttle approach means I tend to just cut it and try and bring it in deadstick, which has always resulted in going around and my instructor bringing it in.

My second biggest problem is silhouetting but I've made progress with this and am hoping a pair of glasses without a cyano-acrylate fingerprint in the middle of one lense will help.

I'm enjoying the challenge and it's big change for me to do something with a social side to it, looking at going on the club weekend thing to Weston Model Show.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 04 March, 2019, 03:08:52 pm
As you have found, orientation is a challenge - contrasting top and bottom sides will help - all white aeroplanes are hard to orientate.

Deadstick landings eventually result in re-kitting (DAMHIKT)! Get the hang of blipping the throttle on finals, tickover to maybe 50% for a second, then back to tickover.  That'll keep it flying if you need speed.  And you need a reliable tickover (unless of course you are leccy!).

Not been to Weston, I've always thought of it as being very commercial.

If you want a real drool though, try the LMA show at Cosford - usually June/July.  Big models, well flown and not too many trade stands. Mostly hand built, fantastically finished, and some model aeroplanes you'll not see at Weston for sure. And the on-site RAF museum is open and free on the day too.

I fly at Sleap, just S of Wem.  Tarmac runway, open all year, flying every day the weather allows. Cafe on site! Visitors with A's welcome.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Si S on 04 March, 2019, 03:26:51 pm
Thanks Andy.

Where I'd like to get to is flying something I've built myself, but for the time being I'm happy with my lump of foam. I've seen you guys flying at Sleap when I was DIY audaxing regularly to Baschurch.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 04 March, 2019, 05:33:26 pm
Thanks Andy.

Where I'd like to get to is flying something I've built myself, but for the time being I'm happy with my lump of foam. I've seen you guys flying at Sleap when I was DIY audaxing regularly to Baschurch.

That gladdens my heart.  I've been building my own aeroplanes, mostly from plan, for maybe 20 years, and I look back on what I made then and compare it with my skills now - I've learned so much.

Steve Webb is good for building materials and parts, and so is Martin Simmonds in Whitchurch.

Building your own airframe is hugely rewarding - TheLurker will I'm sure concur. But, and it's a big but, you tend to have so much emotional investment you get very protective of what you've built and maybe don't fly in conditions that you could.  So, keep the foamie WOT4 for the less ideal days, and when you do get to build your own, you'll have something to fly when the conditions are just not quite right for the pride and job. 

We builders are rare beasts these days, but I build aeroplanes that you can't buy online or in your LMS, so when I turn up at the strip (and that's not often enough these days) the others always ask what I've brought today!  Mostly i/c twins these days.

Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Ashaman42 on 04 March, 2019, 06:39:38 pm
I've got a couple Parc Amber planes under the stairs. One I (mostly) built myself and one of my dad's. I really should dust them off but without a car getting to a flying field is a bit of an ask.

Haven't flown since we used a squadron of FUs to spread my granddad's ashes which was years ago now. Parc Amber was my granddad's company so it seemed fitting.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 04 March, 2019, 07:53:06 pm
Quote from: andytheflyer
Building your own airframe is hugely rewarding ...
Aye.

Quote from: andytheflyer
...you tend to have so much emotional investment you get very protective of what you've built and maybe don't fly in conditions that you could. 
There's some truth in that but one of the nice things about building your own (plan or kit) is that short of doing this (http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=22419.msg236658#msg236658) sort of thing you can always get them flying again.  Then again you could always take up freeflight; it teaches you to be really rather sanguine about less than ideal landings. :)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: graculus on 05 March, 2019, 11:36:08 am
... is that short of doing this (http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=22419.msg236658#msg236658) sort of thing you can always get them flying again...

'For today we have naming of parts'
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Jakob on 06 March, 2019, 12:34:34 am
Thanks Andy.

Where I'd like to get to is flying something I've built myself, but for the time being I'm happy with my lump of foam. I've seen you guys flying at Sleap when I was DIY audaxing regularly to Baschurch.

Check out Flitetest.com. This is how I got into the hobby. From very simple to somewhat complex foamboard planes that are remarkably resilient.
You can often re-use the electronics and a bad crash with cost you a couple of pieces of foamboard (~3 quid).
It will teach you most of the fundamentals of building, flying , crashing, repairing without breaking the bank and many builds can be completed in a couple of evenings rather than a couple of months. (or years, in some peoples case).
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 06 March, 2019, 08:18:55 am
….. and many builds can be completed in a couple of evenings rather than a couple of months. (or years, in some peoples case).

Er, years.  My Twin Beech took me over 3 years (but I was working in Turkey at the time), my Grumman GA-7 took me a couple of years - both plan built.  But I did turn around my Airsail Auster 1/4 scale in about 4 months - but I was on sick leave at the time.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 19 March, 2019, 07:21:42 am
A build video with a difference:

https://youtu.be/lAjmUQOwgIs
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 19 March, 2019, 09:16:54 pm
Coo.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 20 March, 2019, 07:49:21 am
Pish.  That's not a real aeromodeller.  He's not got bits of balsa stuck to his fingers with cyano.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 16 April, 2019, 08:14:23 pm
I've already bored Andy with this. Now it's your turn. :)

Test / trimming flight of Lacey M-10 last month at Trinity (Newbury).

 https: //vimeo.com/ 330585819  (lose the spaces.  The unedited url won't display, not even in a url tag)

For those that need/want to know
Motor is 18", 2 strands of 3/32", max turns 1800 +/-
This flight is 250 turns, establishing rudder deflections etc.
On 900 turns (50%) turns in a reliable 30s+ from a hand launch.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 17 April, 2019, 08:16:50 pm
congratulations
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Si S on 10 June, 2019, 02:31:36 pm
An excellent days flying yesterday, something just clicked, circuits, figure of eights, take off and powered landing nailed both ways. Five out of six deadstick landings spot on, the dodgy one was with a tailwind, the storm was coming in and a gust robbed me of airspeed resulting in a nosedive from about 3 feet, the hot glue gun was required.

I can actually foresee a point I'll be able to pass the 'A'. Time to swotting on the questions.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 11 June, 2019, 04:34:05 pm
Excellent.  Atrocious weather for flying here yesterday.

> ...the hot glue gun was required.
Sympathy.  On which subject.  The Horsa needs a third fuselage.   One successful bungee launch at Port Meadow a week ago followed by a significantly less than successful launch.  :)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 23 June, 2019, 02:06:13 pm
An excellent days flying yesterday, something just clicked, circuits, figure of eights, take off and powered landing nailed both ways. Five out of six deadstick landings spot on, the dodgy one was with a tailwind, the storm was coming in and a gust robbed me of airspeed resulting in a nosedive from about 3 feet, the hot glue gun was required.

I can actually foresee a point I'll be able to pass the 'A'. Time to swotting on the questions.
Well done! Downwind landings are definitely a last resort - you run out of lift very quickly, with the result you found.

If you can do your eights at a reasonably consistent height and approximately symmetrical you'll be fine.

The questions are straightforward, just remember the safety issues when you are prepping to fly. particularly if you are electric.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 04 July, 2019, 07:34:35 pm
Out playing with No. 5 yesterday afternoon testing a new noseblock with my* patent thrustline adjuster.  It's taken a while and a good deal of help from a couple of (much) more expert mates, but it's more or less trimmed now. 

Video of the last flight at,  https:// vimeo.com/ 346214984
You might want to ask the Vicar to go and make a pot of tea when you play this cos the camera-man says a bad word and I'm afraid you'll need to stitch the url back together the forum sw is playing SBs with it if it's left in one piece.

For those who need to know; the motor is 4 strands of 3/32" x 14" 600 turns (80% is ~ 840).  It will probably get another motor with slightly broader strip as it's not climbing as well it otherwise might.


*Mine as in a shameless rip-off of an idea of Don Ross' but made very much smaller.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 07 July, 2019, 10:56:04 pm
Finally got MrsLurker's Freebird aloft just before 9pm this evening.  Flew straight off the board, no trimming other than tweaking the tail up a touch as advised in the build notes.

The video is a bit jerky because I've used VLC to strip the sound track and convert from an AVI container to MP4.  It looks as though VLC has dumped 2 or 3 seconds in the conversion.  Hey ho.

Test flight.  About 60 to 70 turns. https:// vimeo.com/ 346750748  (Again you'll have to stitch the URL together)

Tried a couple of flights at 80+ turns (current motor is rated for 100 max) and got the better part of a complete circuit.  With a new, lubed, motor on at 150 to 200 turns I think it'll be a nice little calm evening flier and good for 10+ seconds. 
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Si S on 08 July, 2019, 10:47:44 am
^^ I like that

Bad day on Saturday, a full size came in without the pass and nowt on the radio, combination of panic and a gusty wind and I ditched it into the crops to end up hitting the tractor tracks as opposed to a nice soft landing in the crops. Bust the prop and tore off the under-carriage, should've fitted those shearable bolts I bought after you said so andy  ::-)

Ah well more glue.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 08 July, 2019, 03:04:14 pm
It happens.  But, however much it hurts, you did the right thing.  I once had to do a rapid landing on a maiden with a twin, to comply with an instruction from the airfield's fire officer,  resulting in a tip stall and a fair bit of damage. 

Modelfixings have loads of nylon bolts, and if you order today you could even get them tomorrow.

Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Si S on 08 July, 2019, 03:11:21 pm
Oh I bought the bolts, they're still in the packet  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 08 July, 2019, 05:31:49 pm
Oh I bought the bolts, they're still in the packet  :facepalm:
;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 08 July, 2019, 06:07:00 pm
Oh I bought the bolts, they're still in the packet  :facepalm:
I was going to offer my sympathy, but  ... :)

I take it the repairs will be straight-forward?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Si S on 09 July, 2019, 09:03:51 am
Oh I bought the bolts, they're still in the packet  :facepalm:
I was going to offer my sympathy, but  ... :)

I take it the repairs will be straight-forward?

Yeah, nothing taxing, there's plenty of material for the glue to take too. New prop arrives today, just got to balance it.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 10 July, 2019, 08:12:01 am
Well done TL with those test flights. There's a certain appeal to just winding it up and letting it go and you get a flight.  TBH, at the moment the thought of lugging a couple of heavy airframes and all the associated kit to the field has lost its appeal. 
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 10 July, 2019, 09:12:36 pm
...at the moment the thought of lugging a couple of heavy airframes and all the associated kit to the field has lost its appeal.
Hark!  Is that an unfinished SE5 kit I hear singing its siren song? :)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 11 July, 2019, 08:38:41 am
...at the moment the thought of lugging a couple of heavy airframes and all the associated kit to the field has lost its appeal.
Hark!  Is that an unfinished SE5 kit I hear singing its siren song? :)
Well...….

The re-build of the 2nd Triumph is about to grind to a halt for 2 or 3 weeks as the newly-rebuilt wheels I was expecting for mid July look like being early August and there are a few things I can't complete until I have the wheels.  I could have another look at the Tiger 750 gearbox issue, but if I need parts that leaves me with 2 bikes in bits.

Or I could simply put in some miles on my recumbents.

Or increase my saxophone practice times.

Or finish the SE5A.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 06 August, 2019, 08:43:49 pm
More niche "fecking divvery".

Have been working up a plan for a smallish span kit scale model - there'll be a build thread over on HPA in due course for those who are interested in that sort of thing - and thought I'd better give it the once over before I start on the final push.  Just as well.  The fuselage and the wings are almost the same scale, but not quite.  Bother!

Not a show-stopper, huzzah for computer based drawing tools, but my branes are too tired to deal with it tonight.  Chiz, chiz, chiz.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 07 August, 2019, 08:05:02 am
…... The fuselage and the wings are almost the same scale, but not quite.  Bother!
  Measure twice.....
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: spesh on 07 August, 2019, 01:34:50 pm
…... The fuselage and the wings are almost the same scale, but not quite.  Bother!
  Measure twice.....

Cut once, hammer or shim to fit as required.

Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Jakob W on 07 August, 2019, 07:41:09 pm
Cut by eye, file to fit, paint to match...
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 07 August, 2019, 08:01:34 pm
…... The fuselage and the wings are almost the same scale, but not quite.  Bother!
  Measure twice.....

Cut once, hammer or shim to fit as required.
Did you work for Keil Kraft by any chance? :D

Sorted.  The parish idiot had made the fuselage keel too long by about 3/8" at the stern-post and the fin/rudder was about 1/8" too deep and wide.  Everything else was, thankfully, as close as it needs to be for kit scale. Phew!

Lurk.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Si S on 28 August, 2019, 11:56:53 am
Went through a mock A with our club examiner last night, all was good, but it should be with it that still. I missed my turn in point for a perfect figure of eight and commented on it, the reply was "Ruddy hell Simon, it's an A cert, not an IMAC schedule", good comments of my use of the rudder during the deadstick approach, it's unusual apparently.

Keep flying in the wind now and when our favourite air show commentator has finished gallivanting all over Europe I'll take this test.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 28 August, 2019, 05:56:15 pm
Well done - you'll be a shoo-in for the A.  The 8 does not have to be dead accurate, just a reasonable attempt, and at a fairly consistent height.  I find it's best not to make them too small to give you time to adjust, and to make the crossover fairly nearly at 90 degrees to the other leg.  That forces you to make the circles fairly wide and gives you more room to get them consistent.

And yes, the rudder is a bit of a forgotten control if you fly with ailerons - as most do.  I've got a 1/4 scale Auster that needs rudder in the turns, and a couple of twins that benefit too - but you can mix that in on the radio.

Rudder is most used on takeoff - otherwise the prop effect can take you all over the place - DAMHIKT.  (Took me a while and a close encounter to get better at the rudder).

So well done on using rudder on the approach to keep it straight.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Si S on 29 August, 2019, 08:28:52 am
Cheers Andy

I need to use the rudder since I'm just putting the finishing touches to a cheap Chinese 3 channel v-tail foam/ply eagle thing that my daughter bought me for fathers day. It's taken me ages to get the the surfaces moving in the right directions, you'd think it'd be easy but I could get either rudder input movement correct or elevator correct but not both until last night.

It'll be interesting to see if it flies since I struggled to the V aligned equally.
 
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 03 January, 2020, 06:56:30 pm
Quote from: TheLurker,  August 2019
Have been working up a plan for a smallish span kit scale model - there'll be a build thread over on HPA in due course...

Main structure complete.  Build Thread / HPA (https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=24583.msg251574#msg251574)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 18 January, 2020, 07:04:10 pm
Finally.  Some decent footage of my Lacey M-10.  Last time out the nose-button had worked loose and wreaked havoc with the behaviour.  Unsuprisingly.  Nose button down and right thrust reset and is now held with epoxy.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw1431Qvf3U
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VgymGoqv4M

For those who need to know.  Motor is 2 strands 3/32", 16.5" long.  Turn counts were 1200 (42s, ROG) & 1300 (46s, ROG).  Gives a decent altitude without having to worry about hanging up in the rafters.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 19 January, 2020, 05:08:02 pm
Finally.  Some decent footage of my Lacey M-10.  Last time out the nose-button had worked loose and wreaked havoc with the behaviour.  Unsuprisingly.  Nose button down and right thrust reset and is now held with epoxy.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw1431Qvf3U
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VgymGoqv4M

For those who need to know.  Motor is 2 strands 3/32", 16.5" long.  Turn counts were 1200 (42s, ROG) & 1300 (46s, ROG).  Gives a decent altitude without having to worry about hanging up in the rafters.
You're cheating.  The string you've got fixed to a nail in the centre of the floor is so fine that you give the impression that the model is trimmed to fly in just the correct radius circle to miss the walls by about 300mm.

Ahem.  That's bloody impressive.  Beats anything I've ever built. Chapeau, sir.

Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 19 January, 2020, 08:09:28 pm
Quote from: AndyTheFlyer
Beats anything I've ever built.
No, just different.  I couldn't build or fly a multi-engine oily job with n-channel RC where n = lots whereas you used to without thinking twice about it.

When you get your aeromodelling mojo back you'll find that your VMC SE5A will make a good indoor model. 

This is one of the blokes trimming out his VMC SE5A yesterday.

https:// vimeo.com /385687810   <-- You'll need to lose the spaces in the URL.  The forum software throws a wobbly with unedited vimeo URLs for some reason.

It's a bit stally at the moment but it's fresh off the bench and the iffy launch didn't help the flight either.  When he's sorted it, it too will fly ROG as well or better than my M10. 
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 20 January, 2020, 03:33:03 pm
Quote from: AndyTheFlyer
Beats anything I've ever built.
No, just different.  I couldn't build or fly a multi-engine oily job with n-channel RC where n = lots whereas you used to without thinking twice about it.

When you get your aeromodelling mojo back you'll find that your VMC SE5A will make a good indoor model. 

This is one of the blokes trimming out his VMC SE5A yesterday.

https:// vimeo.com /385687810   <-- You'll need to lose the spaces in the URL.  The forum software throws a wobbly with unedited vimeo URLs for some reason.

It's a bit stally at the moment but it's fresh off the bench and the iffy launch didn't help the flight either.  When he's sorted it, it too will fly ROG as well or better than my M10.
Oooooooooo.  Wonder if I can get mine to do that?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 21 January, 2020, 06:25:20 am
Yes. Yes you can ...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-x-L7RqGVgU 


Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Vince on 21 January, 2020, 11:01:21 am
Lovely, graceful flights.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Efrogwr on 22 January, 2020, 04:11:48 pm
Hello!

I follow this thread with interest; I was an aeromodeller in my 'teens. I'm impressed by The Lurker's video. Well done.

I have a query: it looks like there are scratch builders here. Where do you get your materials? I remember using very thin birch plywood in high stress parts of structures. I am currently working on a project (that has absolutely nothing to do with flying!). Very thin (about 1 mm) ply might be useful. But I don't know where to look for it! If a any of you can tell me of a good web-based materials supplierI will be very grateful.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 22 January, 2020, 08:53:29 pm
I generally use SLEC (https://www.slecuk.com),  but Balsa Cabin (https://www.balsacabin.co.uk) also have a good reputation.
 
I tend to buy stuff in quantity to minimize the post and packing overhead.

Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Efrogwr on 22 January, 2020, 08:59:07 pm
I generally use SLEC (https://www.slecuk.com),  but Balsa Cabin (https://www.balsacabin.co.uk) also have a good reputation.
 
I tend to buy stuff in quantity to minimize the post and packing overhead.


Thak you very much.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 09 February, 2020, 08:19:45 pm
This really should be in a the "not really a rant" thread, but it's a bit niche for there.

Now, if I'd managed to finish this (https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=24583.msg253146#msg253146) last weekend or even, as originally planned by the end of Dec.,  then I could have test flown it yesterday, but I didn't so now I'm sitting kicking my heels waiting for a weather window that coincides with some free time.  Grrrr.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 11 February, 2020, 09:16:19 am
Now if you'd have put an OS52 4 stroke in it, you could have gone flying in Storm Ciara anyway. 

I just happen to have one of those engines on the shelf, doin' nuttin'..............

(Alternatively I can offer you an OS56 alpha, I've got 3 of those going spare.........)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 13 February, 2020, 05:51:46 pm
Quote from: andytheflyer
Now if you'd have put an OS52 4 stroke in it....
Hmmm.... I wonder, just what is VNE for a 19" span stick and tissue model? :)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: PaulF on 13 February, 2020, 10:52:42 pm
Quote from: andytheflyer
Now if you'd have put an OS52 4 stroke in it....
Hmmm.... I wonder, just what is VNE for a 19" span stick and tissue model? :)

Only one way to find out....
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 14 February, 2020, 08:34:03 am
Quote from: andytheflyer
Now if you'd have put an OS52 4 stroke in it....
Hmmm.... I wonder, just what is VNE for a 19" span stick and tissue model? :)
That's what the right hand (or LH) stick is for - you don't have to push it all the way forward.....
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Zipperhead on 14 February, 2020, 03:05:10 pm
Can I just say that I am loving the entire thread and the works of art contained within it.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Kim on 14 February, 2020, 08:03:39 pm
Can I just say that I am loving the entire thread and the works of art contained within it.

+1
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 16 February, 2020, 06:25:59 pm
Some of these works of "art" are mere bodgery.  I am in the annoying and deeply distressing situation of having to add _tail_ weight to the Pichiatello.  Yes. Really.  _Tail_ weight.  I really don't know _where_ to put my face.  For those of you looking for a little Sunday Night Schadenfreude the whole sorry debacle is on the build thread at HPA.  Pages 8 & 9 refer.

tl;dr - Tail weight needed, but wing loading and AUW likely to be OK so not an utter disaster, but still too shaming for words.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 16 February, 2020, 07:50:31 pm
Some of these works of "art" are mere bodgery.  I am in the annoying and deeply distressing situation of having to add _tail_ weight to the Pichiatello.  Yes. Really.  _Tail_ weight.  I really don't know _where_ to put my face.  For those of you looking for a little Sunday Night Schadenfreude the whole sorry debacle is on the build thread at HPA.  Pages 8 & 9 refer.

tl;dr - Tail weight needed, but wing loading and AUW likely to be OK so not an utter disaster, but still too shaming for words.
I'm appalled.  Tail weight??  Tail weight??  How did you manage that?  You really do need that OS52 up front.  Then you won't need any tail weight............

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 20 March, 2020, 04:01:19 pm
RIAT cancelled.

This from my local rag.

https://www.wiltsglosstandard.co.uk/news/18321597.royal-international-air-tattoo-cancelled-due-coronavirus/

However they're still flying U2s & B2s in and out.  B2 taking off right over the house this morning.  V. unusual as most take-offs and landings are, unsurprisingly, on the main runway line which is (more or less) E-W aligned and for landings they're usually lined up from tens of miles out.   Mind you we do get the odd landing where the base leg is over the house.  As I said quite unusual.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 20 March, 2020, 04:29:10 pm
That's Agent Orange (aka POTUS) ordering an all out offensive on those great big orange virusy thingies, them with the blue knobbly bits. 

Wouldn't like to be in their shoes (the virusy things) when the (the B2s etc) find them.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 03 April, 2020, 02:00:51 pm
Product review of Keil Kraft Grass on p43 of the April issue of Aero Modeller. :)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 12 April, 2020, 07:45:49 pm
As a distraction from the fact that the weather is near ideal for flying and no bugger can fly at all a Walt Mooney Cook-Up is being run on HPA.  I chose to do his peanut scale Chiribiri No. 5.  This means spoked wheels, it also this means small spoked wheels, i.e. 13/16" dia. or ~ 20mm in new money.

I have never built spoked wheels* wheels before. I think the most complimentary thing one can say about my first attempt is that it will be usable.  :)

For your amusement.

https:// vimeo.com/ 406866040

https:// vimeo.com/ 406867126

Wasn't sufficiently satsified with the 1st, went back and redid it as well as its mate.  Still a long way from perfect, but I can live with these.

https://vimeo.com/ 407180539

https://vimeo.com/ 407181638

Usual idiocy with Vimeo URLs, bolt them back together.


*Well obviously one has, but lacing up a wheel is an entirely different bain-marie of chocolate.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 26 April, 2020, 08:48:51 pm
Well the Chiribiri isn't quite complete, but nearly there.  Cos I still haven't sorted out a image host here's a couple of film clips for you...
 
The first is a "walk around" of the C.5  ( https:// vimeo.com/ 412079449 ) and and there's also clip of the local Neighbourhood Watch ( https:// vimeo.com/ 412075421 ) coming home after having been out making very sure we're all observing the various distancing rules and that no-one is having any fun whatsoever.  :)

As seen the C.5 tips the scales at 9.79g.  I'm expecting an unballasted weight with rigging & trimmed prop. shaft v. close to , but a shade over 10g. The motor will be about 2g of strip.  The great unknown is the ballast, it's got a frighteningly short nose moment.

Sorry, you'll need to bolt the URLs together.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Morat on 28 April, 2020, 05:32:44 pm
To a layperson that seems remarkably light and fantastic workmanship!
Self Assembly URLs are very suitable for the thread ;)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 28 April, 2020, 06:51:15 pm
Quote from: Morat
To a layperson that seems remarkably light and fantastic workmanship!
I'll grant that it's light, but it's no better than journeyman standard workmanship.  If you want to see really good, museum quality, stuff head over to HipPocket Aeronautics builders' forum and look for stuff posted by g_kandylakis, zk-aud, dputt and mkelly (and others). 

On the lightness front. Set initial ballast last night and as expected for a short nosed subject it needs a lot, some 3.4g or about 30% of built weight. This is going to give a likely AUW (inc. motor) of ~16g.  Which means endurance won't be as good as the Lacey (upthread) which has a lower wing-loading but it should still be capable of a decent flight.



Quote from: Morat
Self Assembly URLs are very suitable for the thread ;)
I know they are an utter pain in the arse, but whenever I've embedded them in a {url} tag they don't render in the posted message.  Just pretend you bought them at Habitat/IKEA*. :)

Lurk.


*Delete according to age.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 01 May, 2020, 08:27:36 pm
Finally sorted out some image hosting, but the img tag isn't playing nicely with the URLs, or vice-versa.

Assembly complete.
Built weight  10g
Ballast          3.4g
Expected initial AUW  15.5-16g

https://ibb.co/Q8vrC7X
https://ibb.co/q7VGKrB
https://ibb.co/YWQPNBt
https://ibb.co/ydCfzw1
https://ibb.co/zm10xck
https://ibb.co/nLG9pYs

Now all I need is a bit of very calm, dry weather to trim it.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Kim on 02 May, 2020, 12:18:31 am
Finally sorted out some image hosting, but the img tag isn't playing nicely with the URLs, or vice-versa.

[...]

https://ibb.co/Q8vrC7X

You need to link to the image, not a web page containing the image:

(https://i.ibb.co/0ByhFpQ/Chiribiri-00.jpg)

Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 02 May, 2020, 08:22:05 am
Finally sorted out some image hosting, but the img tag isn't playing nicely with the URLs, or vice-versa.

[...]

https://ibb.co/Q8vrC7X
You need to link to the image, not a web page containing the image:
Ah. Yes.  Shows you how long since I last mucked around with image linking doesn't it?  Put it down to old age and general idiocy.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 14 May, 2020, 06:29:45 pm
Not my flight of fancy. Far more amusing and interesting than anything I could do and deserves wider circulation.

HPA thread>  https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=25187.0
Read the opening post if nothing else.  It will explain the video links below.  I defy you to not have a silly great grin on your face after you've watched the films.

The videos
1) https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=CkoMshwo2JI
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esR9zl2xpSE&feature=youtu.be
3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTAvtBKf1LE&feature=youtu.be
4) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMytBO7_Yrs&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: nicknack on 14 May, 2020, 06:42:33 pm
Not my flight of fancy. Far more amusing and interesting than anything I could do and deserves wider circulation.

HPA thread>  https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=25187.0
Read the opening post if nothing else.  It will explain the video links below.  I defy you to not have a silly great grin on your face after you've watched the films.

The videos
1) https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=CkoMshwo2JI
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esR9zl2xpSE&feature=youtu.be
3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTAvtBKf1LE&feature=youtu.be
4) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMytBO7_Yrs&feature=youtu.be
Indeed.  ;D
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 23 May, 2020, 09:59:32 pm
The adventure continues....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzgIgSmY9As&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Ashaman42 on 23 May, 2020, 10:27:35 pm
What an absolute delight. I watched the first four a week or so ago and it's all just plain (plane!!) wondeful.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 25 May, 2020, 03:10:25 pm
After Pete's lovely films, back to The Potter's Wheel...

A long time ago (summer 1973 if you must know) a young (difficult to believe, but yes he once was) Lurker built his first ever flying model. Keil Kraft's Minimoa.  It didn't fly very well, but it did fly so here we are again.  This is a scaled down version.  The world and her brother have created any number of 100" span RC Minimoas for slope soaring.  I wanted one for which I had house room, about 34" span, for Free Flight bungee launching. So after some considerable faffing around in Inkscape redrawing formers, rib profiles and whatnot I've got a plan.  All that remains is to see whether or not it's buildable and will fly....

(https://i.ibb.co/xS5x0fz/Best-Side00.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RpHRmBQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/JsMGrvM/Interior-Shot00.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZMkFcBk)
(https://i.ibb.co/zXN04dM/Interior-Shot01.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HtXkHZS)
(https://i.ibb.co/TPx3nVH/Underside.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HGf8MWr)


Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 25 May, 2020, 09:28:22 pm
My favourite glider ever. So beautiful.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 10 June, 2020, 10:51:03 pm
Quote from: pcolbeck
My favourite glider ever. So beautiful.
Agreed, it is lovely, but, of the pre-war sailplane designs, it's worth noting that it was the DFS Weihe & Meise (Olympia), especially the Olympia, that got built in numbers after the war.  Apparently that gull wing was a swine to build; there is a rearward sweep / twist as well as the anhedral bend in the spar of the full size version which made it costly.  It's also a bugger if you use the Keil Kraft cracked spar approach in a model .  I've used the cracked spars for this shakedown to see what sort of weight the wings would turn out to be.  They're both 4g +/- so the wing has been re-drawn as a two part assembly, one extra rib and some glue isn't going to make a significant difference in the AUW and it makes it very much easier and less stressful to build.

Wings more or less complete.  LEs to sand to profile & stbd root bay needs sheeting.

(https://i.ibb.co/NWHqKxz/TwoWings.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L92y1Sf)
(https://i.ibb.co/QvJ32by/Two-Wings00.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VYLc7jf)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 11 June, 2020, 01:31:14 pm
I keep meaning to have a go at this card and paper version you can download:

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/aircraft/Minimoa-Sailplane.html
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 15 June, 2020, 08:40:32 pm
Quote from: pcolbeck
I keep meaning to have a go at this card and paper version you can download:
http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/aircraft/Minimoa-Sailplane.html
Their card aeroplane models look rather fun.

Right.  Airframe complete, 21g by the kitchen scales.  Probably still needs a teeny wee bit of rhinoplasty, but that can wait for a day or so.  Another short nosed subject so am expecting a significant amount of ballast will be required.  The next one is definitely, well maybe, going to  have a nice looong nose, hmmm mebbe a MiG 3. :)

(https://i.ibb.co/qFgsrYH/Front-Port-Quarter01.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Kzsqrxt)
(https://i.ibb.co/rsZmjcZ/Rear-Port-Quarter.jpg) (https://ibb.co/169Lgd9)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Jakob W on 15 June, 2020, 09:28:24 pm
Look no further (it's not like you could see over the nose, anyhow...): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%2BW_C-3605
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: tom_e on 15 June, 2020, 09:31:01 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/rsZmjcZ/Rear-Port-Quarter.jpg) (https://ibb.co/169Lgd9)

That looks lovely. 

I haven't made any balsa models for many years.  Hmmm.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 16 June, 2020, 05:40:17 am
Quote from: Jakob W
...it's not like you could see over the nose...
Oh my. Close kin of the Pilatus Turbo Porter? :)

Quote from: tom_e
I haven't made any balsa models for many years.  Hmmm.
I'll just leave this, https://www.vintagemodelcompany.com/model-planes.html, here shall I? :D

If you are tempted to get back into "toy" aeroplanes and aren't enough of a masochist to draw and cut everything from scratch then look at laser cut kits.  They are just astonishing and the saving in time is significant.  E.g. the former and rib prep. for the Baby Minimoa took some 10 or so hours where for an equivalent laser cut kit it would take ummm 5 to 10 minutes to sand back the lands/"sprue" of all the parts.  And part fit?  Breathtakingly good.  A good* kit just plugs together. VMC's are particularly good, especially their brand new designs.

*There are some stinkers out there.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 26 June, 2020, 09:33:26 pm
Here we go, one "Baby" Minimoa, 34" span, Free Flight.  Will it fly?  I really don't know.  I do hope so.

Tips the scale at 25.5g unballasted, requires about 7g ballast to balance at about 50% of root chord.

Those who know the design well will spot the obvious scale inaccuracies, a couple of which I may deal with if it flies but on the whole it is sufficiently "ish" for me.

The scheme is an approximation to that of BGA 1639 which was (probably) built in 1939 as Werk Nr. 378, imported from The Nederlands (PH-390) in about 1970, and restored in the early 1980s.  The prototype BGA 1639 is nearer a cream colour than pure white, but given the "ish" nature of the design white is a variation I can live with.


(https://i.ibb.co/KLz6twG/Nose-Detail00.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nn8rXC0)
(https://i.ibb.co/2s6rb8V/Landing-Out-01.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xfsb4m9)
(https://i.ibb.co/2vPG1kj/Landing-Out-02.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R3PRkDC)
(https://i.ibb.co/GM87HGv/Landing-Out-00.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4SXW1CZ)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 26 June, 2020, 09:51:54 pm
Nice job.I hope it flies as well as it looks.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 30 June, 2020, 04:38:33 pm
Lurker have you seen this?:

https://youtu.be/EcJ038TLG5Y
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 30 June, 2020, 07:32:38 pm
Or this.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNHLJVRzJKY

I have no idea how he does this..................

I had about 9 models flying at any one time, and my garage ceiling was chock-full with racks. The real danger is hangar rash, inevitably you damage something just by getting it out and putting it away.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 30 June, 2020, 08:05:02 pm
Ahhh, big, expensive toys for the big boys.  None of yer bodging at the dining room table there and the Minimoa slope soaring video?  Not envious at all.  No, no, no oh dearie me no.

Mind you here at the shallow end of the pool it's an awful lot cheaper.  By way of example, the bill of materials for the Baby Minimoa is :

One sheet 3" x 36" x 1/16" med. balsa
One sheet 3" x 36" x 3/32" med. balsa
A few square inches of hard 1/16" balsa sheet.
A few square inches of 1/16" ply
A couple of cubic inches of block balsa.
One and a tiny* bit sheets of white tissue
An offcut of black tissue
An offcut of red tissue
About three inches of 22SWG piano wire.
One yoghurt pot lid.

All yours for under a fiver and you'll have nearly two half sheets of balsa left over for the next one and I rate the Minimoa an "expensive" model compared to a slab-sider.

*Have you any idea how galling it is to find you can cover everything from one sheet apart from one side of the stabilizer?  :)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 12 July, 2020, 02:11:02 pm
Ah well, looks like mine's a dud.   Have managed to get a small handful of acceptable flights out of it, but it is very, very fussy about the launch off a bungee which makes it NBG as a fun flyer for me.  It might work better off a towline, where you have a bit more control, but that requires ground-crew and I haven't got any. 

Have tried a few tweaks to hook position and some gurney strips on the stab to improve longitudinal stability which have at least improved the stall recovery but it's persisting in dropping its nose off the tow which throws away all that carefully accumulated height.  Shame really because when it goes right it the glide is rock solid.

As I expected it is a very light airs only machine which further limits its usefulness as a fun flyer.

As usual, bolt the URLs together.

Test Glide
https://vimeo.com/ 437462829

Qualified Success.    Managed to some better than this, but of course didn't film those.
https://vimeo.com/ 437460888


Pull Up. Pull Up. Pull Up.  Terrain.  Terrain.
https://vimeo.com/ 437461961

There have been rather a large number of wince inducing flights where the pilot was unable to pull out of the dive. 
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 12 July, 2020, 03:08:55 pm
Is it stalling at the top of the launch?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 12 July, 2020, 04:08:20 pm
I think so.  As far as I can make out it is still (just) in the climb rather than rounding out when it drops the tow and the nose is too far up.  I'm going to have another go later this evening when the breeze drops again, try bending the hooks up to see if I can keep it on the line for another half second or so, but I'm not optimistic. 
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 13 July, 2020, 07:49:48 am
Hi, just beginning to crawl out from under the duvet after emptying the hangar.  Sob.

I agree that it's stalling at the top of the climbout - it loses a lot of height very quickly, but the glide is good.  Is the towline hanging up and the weight of the line bringing the nose down just before release?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 13 July, 2020, 08:02:03 am
Hi, just beginning to crawl out from under the duvet after emptying the hangar.  Sob.

I agree that it's stalling at the top of the climbout - it loses a lot of height very quickly, but the glide is good.  Is the towline hanging up and the weight of the line bringing the nose down just before release?

Looks the opposite to me, being released nose up and still climbing after release then stall.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 13 July, 2020, 04:53:15 pm
Quote from: andytheflyer
Hi, just beginning to crawl out from under the duvet after emptying the hangar.  Sob.
Here, have this nice cup of tea and a biscuit.  It'll help with the shock.  Did your models find good homes?

*points Andy at the VMC SE5 which will fly very nicely in a small field or even better indoors*  :)

Quote from: pcolbeck
...being released nose up and still climbing after release then stall.

Aye.  You may not be able to step it through in a browser viewer, but stepping the original in VLC it's pretty obvious that the tow is being slipped too early. 

It's better with the hooks bent up to roughly || to the keel (as they should have been to start with - brain fart on my part) in that launches are now predictable, but in flat calm last night I was still getting a stall at the top of the line as it seemed to come to a dead stop.  This is not something I've ever seen before.  Pretty puzzled by that. 
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 13 July, 2020, 05:02:28 pm
Its decades since I launched a glider off a line but what about changing the drag on the line? My guts say add more so the line slows down quicker at the top of the arc and the glider shoots off but maybe less so it the line doesn't pull as much and the glider can float off?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 14 July, 2020, 06:29:18 am
Quote from: pcolbeck
...what about changing the drag on the line? My guts say add more so the line slows down quicker at the top of the arc ...
I think from my memory of Sunday's obs. it *may* need less drag, i.e. a smaller pennant so that it's still moving forward at and "over" the top.  Looking at the weather it's going to be a few days before I can try it out.  Stab & fin off last night and stab incidence bumped to -2 deg.  Refit that tonight.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 14 July, 2020, 09:39:15 am
Quote from: andytheflyer
Hi, just beginning to crawl out from under the duvet after emptying the hangar.  Sob.
Here, have this nice cup of tea and a biscuit.  It'll help with the shock.  Did your models find good homes?

*points Andy at the VMC SE5 which will fly very nicely in a small field or even better indoors*  :)
Yup, it's sitting on a shelf, just awaiting completion, which will follow once I've sorted the 5 spd gearbox on my 1973 Triumph Tiger 750 re-build.  I now seem to have eliminated the gear change problem and it just needs the outer cover going on and I can try it out.  Then it needs a few miles, followed by the tank and rocker boxes off, re-torque the head, rocker boxes and tank back on, and test again.  Rinse and repeat once more and we should be good to go for the rest of the summer.

Then the SE5......

And yes,  thx.  The models all went to good homes, apart from the big Auster, which the LMS thought would go first, it's been in quarantine for 3 months......  I was pleasantly surprised at how much they sold for.  I would have to confess, however, that their departure has been somewhat emotional.  Some I'd had for years and had put a lot of work into them. I gave a lot of kit away to good homes too.  Virtually nothing went in the bin. 

I just need to buy a shotgun now to start my drone campaign............
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Jaded on 14 July, 2020, 12:17:26 pm
This thread is about model aeroplanes...

This video of a model Concorde is amazing, I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P0ByxIymYg
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 14 July, 2020, 06:23:22 pm
This thread is about model aeroplanes...

This video of a model Concorde is amazing, I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P0ByxIymYg
What they didn't show you were the bicycle clips on his trouser legs.  To keep the you-know-what-in.

Those of us who have maidened R/C models have all been there..................
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 14 July, 2020, 07:14:15 pm
Quote from: jaded
...Concorde...
Not bad, not bad at all.  There are some really rather talented builders out there aren't there?

Quote from: andytheflyer
I just need to buy a shotgun now to start my drone campaign............
A one man Kammhuber line?  :)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 15 July, 2020, 09:19:56 pm
Finally laid out the vertical stabiliser for the glider I've had the fuselage, wings and tailplane built for about 18 months.  Had some "alone time" this evening, nice to reconnect with the tactility of the balsa with work being mostly BRANES only.  It's the first of these i've ever built, from a kit bought for me as a teenager but I've hung onto, and oddly i'm in two minds whether to cover it and fly it or not.  I just love looking at the structure and thinking "I built that". 

Anyway, next step glue the stabiliser and hone the profiles round the corners.  I also need to do a bit of rhinoplasty on the noseconse
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 15 July, 2020, 09:26:29 pm
What is it?
We want pictures!
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Jurek on 16 July, 2020, 11:23:40 am
This thread is about model aeroplanes...

This video of a model Concorde is amazing, I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P0ByxIymYg
When I worked for The Science Museum I was based at Wroughton Airfield for a few months.
The local Aero Modelling Club used to fly stuff of that sort of size / complexity on a fairly regular basis, down there.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 16 July, 2020, 11:57:26 am
(https://i.imgur.com/9D4RroM.jpg)

A kit glider by Veron, as I said I'm slightly trepidatious about covering it never having done that before. Also unsure about fixing wings and horizontal tail - the instructions say use rubber bands
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: T42 on 16 July, 2020, 01:04:37 pm
Something like this, maybe:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/5602/15361456980_fe235e6cb2_b.jpg)

But that implies that you have a wing in one piece rather than separate halves, and crossbars in the fuselage to hook the elastics onto.

(Not my pic, I haven't built a plane for 40 years)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 16 July, 2020, 01:37:36 pm
Yes, wings are one piece, instructions do not give any indication of that type of arrangement
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 16 July, 2020, 02:37:15 pm
Yes, wings are one piece, instructions do not give any indication of that type of arrangement
You should have a dowel (maybe 1/4" dia) projecting maybe 1/2" from the fuse just in front of the LE and just behind the TE.  The rubber bands hook over these as T42 shows.

The benefit of rubber bands is that the wings detach easily in the event of an 'arrival'.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 16 July, 2020, 02:47:22 pm
If Dave's glider is a Veron Combi Classic which is what it looks like from the photo's the plans are online and they forgot to put in the instructions for retaining dowels.
Oops.
http://www.ffscale.co.uk/combi_plans/classic.pdf
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 16 July, 2020, 02:58:39 pm
That is it, indeed.

Any particualr technique for getting a round dowel to attach to square edges? Just file a bit flat?  I assume you cover after the dowels are in place?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 16 July, 2020, 03:08:56 pm
That is it, indeed.

Any particualr technique for getting a round dowel to attach to square edges? Just file a bit flat?  I assume you cover after the dowels are in place?

When I used to make gliders donkeys ago the ones I did you filled in a section of the fuselage with sheet balsa with a round hole for the dowel. It strengthened the attachment point as well.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 16 July, 2020, 04:27:29 pm
That looks lovely.  I know what you mean about not wanting to cover it.

Quote from: pcolbeck
Quote from: ElyDave
...round dowel to attach to square edges?
...filled in a section of the fuselage with sheet balsa with a round hole for the dowel. It strengthened the attachment point as well.


As P. says.  Sheet infill, pierce for dowels.  Fit hardwood (spruce usually) dowels after covering. 

Looking at yours, for the wing I'd infill just aft of frame D with 3/32" or 1/8" (or two bits of 1/16" glued together cross-grained for strength), doesn't have to be the full gap back to frame E and pierce just forward of the wing in the cockpit "coaming".  You might want to put a small piece of sheet doubler inside the coaming before piercing it.  Don't have the dowels under the wing and _don't_ cross the bands.  Run them fore and aft, that way they are more likely to ping off on a hard arrival saving the wing from damage.  Take spare bands with you when you go flying.  You will *not* find them when they ping off.

As for fitting the stab?  I'd glue it on, but use balsa cement rather than cyano, PVA or aliphatic.  It'll simplify construction, cut the weight aft of the CG and you won't have the stab & fin "wandering" between flights.  If you use balsa cement you can use cellulose thinners or acetone to dissolve the glue if you find that you need to reposition the stab.

Based on my vast experience (grams: hollow laughter) the hook position is for a hand tow launch rather than bungee.  You'll need to move it forward for bungee launching if that's your intention.  How much? Ah, now.  That's a tricky one that I can't give a definitive answer to.  I'd fit two, one at frame B, and one at frame C and see how it goes.  For how _not_ to do it see upthread.  :)

If you do want to fly it I'd suggest signing up at HPA (https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php) and heading to the tow-line gliders board. There are people there who really know what they're talking about.

When it comes to covering there are several ways of skinning the cat and every modeller has her or his preferred method.  There'll probably be only just enough tissue in the kit.  Buy some more, it's dirt cheap, so that when you get it wrong first time you can happily strip it off and try again.  As Andy will confirm, 9 out of 10 models need at least one component stripped and recovered *at least* once no matter how many models you've built.  The good news is that the one you're building doesn't have any/many compound curves which will make life sooo much easier.

ETA.
There's a very active bungee launch mob at Peterborough who will be very glad to help you get it airborne when it's finished.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 16 July, 2020, 08:23:12 pm
As Andy will confirm, 9 out of 10 models need at least one component stripped and recovered *at least* once no matter how many models you've built.
Nah, 9.9 recurring..............
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 29 July, 2020, 09:22:59 pm
Huge sighs of relief all round at Lurker Industries.  Baby Minimoa is a goer.  No film yet.

Ballast ~7.6g

Repeatable clean transition to flight off 9 to 10 paces on a 20m line( 10m of 0.045” strip, 10m line) in ~7mph winds using the front hook.   Still needs minor tweaking to ballast and I'm going to reset the fin to about one half degree left, as it has a slight natural left turn, rather than mucking about with trim tabs.  It won't trouble the record books unless it catches a thermal, but it flies nicely enough for me.

More good news.  Finally got to glide test (ran out of time for power tests) the Ju87 and it looks like it won't need any tail weight or if it does it will be a *tiny* amount which means a likely AUW somewhere about 37g which is only 2 or 3g over what I was hoping for.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 30 July, 2020, 08:19:16 am
Minimoa:  knew you'd crack it.  Well done.  Vid pls.  I think I know exactly how you feel.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 30 July, 2020, 10:05:27 am
Yay ! 

We need to see video of the Minimoa doing its thing properly.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 30 July, 2020, 09:26:33 pm
Here we go, a short flight.  This is a rarity, most flights, if there's any sort of a breeze, are a nice LH circuit.

https:// vimeo.com/ 443164836  <-- Stitch the URL together*.

Eleven or twelve paces on the line.  Still needs a bit of fettling, but it's good enough (by my lights) to share.  Ignore the ugly great lump of blu-tack, that'll be converted to a sliver of lead glued to the back of the NB when I've got trim properly sorted.

AUW is about 33.5g

As I expected the only way you'll get any endurance from this is if you catch a thermal, but as it flies I'm chalking this one up as a win it being only my second blank sheet project.

Best flight this evening was about 12s, nice LH circuit.


*Can anyone shed on any light on why the forum sw chokes on vimeo URLs?  I'd be interested to know, cos it's irritating.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: philip on 30 July, 2020, 09:57:01 pm
If I put the URL
Code: [Select]
https://vimeo.com/443164836 in a post then the preview automatically converts it to an iframe containing the URL
Code: [Select]
https://player.vimeo.com/video/443164836 The SMF sofware is automatically embedding the video.

I'll put the first URL here: https://vimeo.com/443164836
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: philip on 30 July, 2020, 09:59:01 pm
The posted version looks much like the preview. Is it broken for you?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 31 July, 2020, 09:51:23 am
RIGHT, more newbie questions.

Instructions (1970's vintage I think) refer to use of tissue paste, dope, thinners etc.

Quick review of t'interwebz suggests that
1- Glue - UHU, watered down PVA ... basically anything that will stick the tissue
b - water or diluted ipa for initial shrinking (not the beer kind!)
iii) Ambivalent on additional shrinking dopes and laquers

I have some tissue past in the kit box, which is now >20 years old, what's the voice of experience here?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 31 July, 2020, 10:07:41 am
At work ATM.  Will reply properly later outlining what I do.   Bear in mind nearly everyone has a, "Works for me." approach and no two modellers use identical techniques.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 31 July, 2020, 11:46:17 am
RIGHT, more newbie questions.

Instructions (1970's vintage I think) refer to use of tissue paste, dope, thinners etc.

Quick review of t'interwebz suggests that
1- Glue - UHU, watered down PVA ... basically anything that will stick the tissue
b - water or diluted ipa for initial shrinking (not the beer kind!)
iii) Ambivalent on additional shrinking dopes and laquers

I have some tissue past in the kit box, which is now >20 years old, what's the voice of experience here?
1) watery IPA, applied with a brush
b) water, misted from a spray bottle
iii) DeLuxe Materials Eze Dope - it's water based.

20 years ago it was tissue paste and dope.  We've gone all touchy-feely since then.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 31 July, 2020, 01:59:31 pm
I assume you mean
1 - watered down PVA, not IPA
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 31 July, 2020, 02:12:40 pm
I assume you mean
1 - watered down PVA, not IPA

If you water down IPA make sure you don't sell it or you'll have weights and measures after you. Also it will taste rubbish.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 31 July, 2020, 02:56:01 pm
Speaking of IPA, I have some Whitstable Bay which I shall be drinking later, but first this, while I can still type...

Choice of tissue.
a) Domestic.  Relatively heavy, no wet strength.
b) "Esaki".   Dearer than domestic.  Good wet strength.  Rumour is that it's not being made any more.  There *are* comparable tissues so ask around.

Choice of Doping compounds.
a) Solvent based.  Shrinking and non-shrinking.  Various compositions available.
b) Non solvent based.  Only know of one ATM.  EzeDope by Deluxe Materials.  Of which more later.

Tissue Fixative
a) Tissue paste. Various mfrs.  As far as the tube that came with the kit goes, ask yourself if you'd trust the glue that came with a 20 YO tube repair kit.
b) Dope
c) PVA.  Thinned
d) Glue stick and PVA.

What follows is *not* prescriptive.  Others will have their preferred way of working and will swear blind that it is the one true way.  Bollocks.  Whatever works best for you is the way to go.

I haven't used dope to fix tissue to an airframe since 1973.  It was straight-forward and some of the (even) older builders still use it. Especially for under-cambered ribs.

My preferred technique is to use glue stick, UHU for pref. - consistency is good, to put a thin bead around the edge of the piece being covered and then fix the tissue in place, teasing out the worst of the wrinkles and bags.  When the glue has cured properly (min. of a couple of hours) I then go over this with water thinned PVA (50% by volume) using a fine, 00, paint brush gently rubbing the glue in with the dampened end of the brush.

Working this way means you can use domestic tissue without too much stress.  Thinned PVA and domestic tissue under tension is not a good combination.

Doping.
I use two approaches.

For a single colour domestic tissue finish with very small areas of tissue decoration Deluxe Materials EzeDope.  The first coat, 5% by volume with water,  is misted on.  You can buy small pump sprays in the travel section of Boots and the like.  The second and subsequent coats, 30% by vol, can be brushed or sprayed on.  You have to be v. careful with EzeDope & domestic tissue, see the earlier point about wet strength.  Deluxe recommend using "Esaki" or similar for obvious reasons. It can be used in the house without choking everyone else and it can be sent through the post.   I've used it for models up to 36" span.


If I'm doing a two or three colour tissue finish, the Ju87's splinter camouflage is a good example, I'll use thinned non shrinking dope (30% by volume with cellulose thinners or more dilute depending on size of model) after steam shrinking the tissue.  You can buy dope by electronic mail order, but it has to be shipped by courier so can work out very expensive if that's all you're buying.

Companies.
Vintage Model Company
SLEC
Balsa Cabin
Free Flight Supplies - A one man band, but good.

And I strongly suggest that you sign up at the Hip Pocket Aeronautics forum where you will get some *real* expert help rather than my idiotic ramblings.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 01 August, 2020, 10:43:15 am
I assume you mean
1 - watered down PVA, not IPA
er, yes...........
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 01 August, 2020, 08:57:20 pm
Oh dear!

EzeDope - Check
New model kit - Check

Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 02 August, 2020, 09:03:06 am
Quote from: ElyDave
...New model kit - Check
My work here is done. *evil cackle*.

Sounds like someone visited the VMC site.  C'mon Dave, don't tease.  Which one is it?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 02 August, 2020, 09:10:53 am
In my defence, I only went there 'cos I couldn't find the EzeDope elsewhere.

I was torn between the Cessna 140 and Bird Dog, went with the Bird Dog in the end.   If they had a Cessna 150 I would have had that as that's wjhat I did my Air Cadet Flying Scholarship in
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 02 August, 2020, 09:25:51 am
Well, cor, blimey strike a light!  Guess what I've just started on?  Yup.  The Bird Dog.  It had been sitting in my kit hoard for a couple of years and was looking all forlorn.  Only got the wing centre section so far.  Mine'll be a USAF grey tissue finish O1-E and if I'm feeling adventurous it'll be a shark-mouth scheme, tail No. 5-62534. If. :)

You've chosen a good one.  Andrew Darby's designs fly pretty much off the board and I know that models built from that kit have a reputation for flying like they're on rails. 

The only thing I'd suggest at the moment is that you make two dihedral guides for the centre section (3 deg. off vertical).  The kit parts are cut to give that angle, but it's a bit of a three-handed job to get the centre section put together and having a couple of guides to prop. up the ribs makes it a tad easier.

Fin Mods (https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=22419.msg262747#msg262747)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 05 August, 2020, 09:58:18 am
OH appears scrolling through credit card entries on the phone
"Is this yours? The Vintage Model Company?"

[quick thinks]

"yes, it's the bits to finish this" says I pointing at said model [not mentioning new kit at all, nothing to see here]
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 06 August, 2020, 09:45:29 pm
Slowly, slowly starting the covering, tail plane and fin done so far with no dramas.  Manged to snap the single, very thin piece connecting the two wings whilst trying to shape and do the initial gluing of the tissue.  I've pared the remains out of them, luckily there is a spare in the kit so my plan is to cover the wings as much as possible then rejoin them and cover the final gap before shrinking.

Any tips of stopping a gull-wing from warping? I was thinking of doing one side at a time and building some props to go underneath to maintain the line whilst I weight it or pin it down from above.

I think it might be very tight on tissue to cover the fuselage.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 07 August, 2020, 06:44:30 am
Quote from: ElyDave
I was thinking of doing one side at a time and building some props to go underneath to maintain the line whilst I weight it or pin it down from above.

Warping.  Yup, you've more or less got it sussed.  With kinked wings (Ju87, Minimoa, Walthew MKII) I wrap cling film or some other covering around the part that isn't being shrunk, apply the shrinking agent (steam / 5% EzeDope / water) to the uncovered part and pin it to the board.  Pin it to the building board using spacers at intervals under the LE & TE.  If you're using EzeDope use 1/8" min thickness spacers, 1/4" is better, use the scrap sheet from the kit, because the tissue can bag quite a lot and stick to the board when it's wet.  With an anhedral wing like your kit you'll need a block that raises the wing section being treated far enough off the board that the "tip" of the untreated section is clear of the board.  I generally use a stack of Model Board glued together (see HobbyCraft) because it will take pins and is easy to cut to the appropriate size  / shape and it's cheap enough that I don't feel dreadful about the single use.

It will take longer to dry out completely than you might expect.  I often leave even small wings pinned down for 12+ hours.

Quote from: ElyDave
I think it might be very tight on tissue to cover the fuselage.

*Cough*
Quote from: TheLurker
There'll probably be only just enough tissue in the kit.  Buy some more, it's dirt cheap,....
:)

What colour tissue is it?  If it's white I have some spare domestic and it'll be far cheaper for me to stick a couple of sheets in the post than it will be for you to ring up VMC/{some other company} just for that and get stung for postage.  It also give you a bit of spare for patching.  If you'd like some let me know where to send it.  It'll be sent flat so you'll have to iron it to get the worst of the creases out.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 07 August, 2020, 09:16:51 am
I'll let you know, thanks - looking at it I might have enough by flipping the fuselage sections 180-deg alternating fat end to thin end.  I'm keeping scraps for repairs and small sections as necessary.

I've worked out that three cassette tapes is the height of the wing tip angle, and three erasers is the point of the gull wing angle change. 

Tailplane and fin now fully dry, and I'm happy enough with the results. Could probably be better, but first attempt and all that
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 08 August, 2020, 09:19:51 am
Quote from: ElyDave
...I'm happy enough with the results. Could probably be better, but first attempt and all that
Don't worry about it.  I think there's only one or two stick and tissue models in thousands that have wrinkle free covering.  Other people looking at it don't see the flaws or if they do they discount them.  As long as the flying surfaces aren't warped and are true WRT each other it'll fly and that is the primary objective.

I put my VMC Osprey through some post refit, ballasting changes (https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=22419.msg263099#msg263099), test flights last night. The pilot requires a bit more tutelage, but for something that many would dismiss as a "toy" it's pretty good indeed and suggests that with a longer tow (40-50m rather than the 20m line I use) some fairly long flights ought to be achievable.

Endurance is a gnat's north of 15s, 16s if one is really optimistic, on a 20m line in very, very light winds.   

https://vimeo.com/ 445680677  <-- stitch it together.

It's not the best flight, see the stall when the tow drops, which is the result of a hurried reballasting after total loss of ballast on a previous flight*. This leads me to today's top tip, "When you've established the base trim, glue the ballast in place. Clot."


*When you hear an odd rattling noise** in the steepest part of the climb and the flight is very, very, very, stally do investigate immediately.  Don't assume it was a rubbish launch, carry on and then stand there looking like a lemon on the subsequent equally stally flight wondering what's gone wrong.

**The fishing weights bouncing off the canopy I expect.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 11 August, 2020, 11:06:52 am

Quote

What colour tissue is it?  If it's white I have some spare domestic and it'll be far cheaper for me to stick a couple of sheets in the post than it will be for you to ring up VMC/{some other company} just for that and get stung for postage.  It also give you a bit of spare for patching.  If you'd like some let me know where to send it.  It'll be sent flat so you'll have to iron it to get the worst of the creases out.

LBS has a model section, popped in today and picked up a couple of sheets, Means I can re-cover the bits of wing I don't like becasue of compromises
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 11 August, 2020, 11:45:28 am
Quote from: ElyDave
LBS has a model section...
You have an LMS*!?  You lucky, lucky ... you. :)


*Or Dept. at least.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 13 August, 2020, 05:36:36 pm
Here she is, just need to add the runners underneath and a launching hook for towlines.

Will need ballasting as well as currently tail heavy.  AUW unballasted is 57g.
I can see several imperfections, and the covering on the fuselage is a bit patchy. As a first stick-and-tissue build I think it was quite a complicated one and with hindsight of experience there's a lot I'd do differently if I did it again. Lots of learning points for the next one.  Hopefully it won't take me 2-3 years next time, though the build did accelerate towards the end.

(https://i.imgur.com/S9V0I8l.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/iuqo2ie.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 13 August, 2020, 06:49:49 pm

I think you've made a very nice job of that.

Quote from: ElyDave
Will need ballasting as well as currently tail heavy.  AUW unballasted is 57g.
It's a rare model that's not and better that than nose-heavy. However, looking at the relatively long nose on that I don't think you're going to need a huge amount of ballast.   Go on, give the PMFC a call.  Unlike a lot of other clubs these days they've got a lot of bods who are into tow-line gliders and they'll be very pleased to help you get it flying.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 13 August, 2020, 09:34:35 pm
What TL said.  Well done Dave.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 14 August, 2020, 01:12:03 pm
thanks both.

Looks like needing somewhere north of 20g ballast from quick experiments. I'm thinking of removing a section of fuselage covering at the bottom and gluing a flat fishing sinker to the back of the nosecone.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 16 August, 2020, 01:25:47 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ph94pF7T8o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ph94pF7T8o)

Tentative throw in the garden, but a touch more nose weight I think. Currently has a 19g fishing sinker and lead foil from a whisky bottle glued behind the nosecone, and space to add more ballast at the base of the nose, maybe trim the angle of the tailplane as well

There is a much bigger field of turf round the back of the house, just need to wait for a really still day.

Started the BirdDog last night, I think it's going to be a much lighter build
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 16 August, 2020, 07:39:59 pm
That's nice,  it looks as though it flies straight which I always find a relief cos it means one hasn't buggered up the flying surfaces. :)

Dunno what Andy or anyone else thinks, but I think it might be worth trying with a bit less nose weight rather than more.

> ...BirdDog last night, I think it's going to be a much lighter build
Yeah,  most of the VMC kits in the MfM series turn out somewhere in the 25g to 35g range.

Got a bit more done on mine today.  Modified Fin (https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=22419.msg263448#msg263448)  Did the wing centre section a week or so ago.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 17 August, 2020, 07:57:33 am
Dunno what Andy or anyone else thinks, but I think it might be worth trying with a bit less nose weight rather than more.

+1.  I'd take a bit out and see what happens, and go for a launch out of the hand at level or maybe slightly down.  It looked like it tried to stall and then recover.  But well done - it flies straight.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 17 August, 2020, 10:46:31 am
Thanks guys, consensus seems to be that getting it trimmed to the COG marked on the plans was a bit OTT then!

Now with rain and then strong winds for the weekend, I think it might be while before further reports are made. 
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 17 August, 2020, 11:40:14 am
The marked CoG is a starting point, IME: how it actually flies tells you how to balance it in pitch.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 18 August, 2020, 08:46:55 am
These laser cut kits are a huge step forward in ease of build vs the Veron glider.  With quite a bit of other distraction last night I still managed to build a wing.  It's things like the leading and trailing edge sections, which were cut from strip for the glider and took an age to get the complicated joints and trailing edge profile right.  I think this will be a lot quicker overall, though I can see the fusalage as requiring a measured, delicate touch
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 18 August, 2020, 11:53:42 am
Quote from: ElyDave
These laser cut kits are a huge step forward in ease of build...
Aren't they though?

Quote from: ElyDave
With quite a bit of other distraction last night I still managed to build a wing. 

Crikey. You're a great deal quicker than me.  All I managed last night was the stbd outer wing section.  Might get the wing finished tonight.

Just out of interest, what's the light wood like in your kit?  Mine (about 2 years old) seems to contain uniformly hard (heavy) sheet which is *most* unusual for a VMC kit.  Mind you even at that it's not Ye Olde Keil Kraft Oake.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 18 August, 2020, 01:21:48 pm
Quote from: ElyDave
These laser cut kits are a huge step forward in ease of build...
Aren't they though?

Quote from: ElyDave
With quite a bit of other distraction last night I still managed to build a wing. 

Crikey. You're a great deal quicker than me.  All I managed last night was the stbd outer wing section.  Might get the wing finished tonight.

Just out of interest, what's the light wood like in your kit?  Mine (about 2 years old) seems to contain uniformly hard (heavy) sheet which is *most* unusual for a VMC kit.  Mind you even at that it's not Ye Olde Keil Kraft Oake.

A wing = port section
Pair of wings would be both sides, I'm not that quick.  Will go for the other section this evening and marry them up Weds if I have time.  I think you started on the tail?
I've built the middle wing box, left wing and a couple of the non-sequential ancilliary laminations so far.

My kit seems to have one definitely heavier sheet and two lighter though not uniformly so.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 18 August, 2020, 04:03:14 pm
These laser cut kits are a huge step forward in ease of build vs the Veron glider.
Some years ago I built the 8ft span Airsail Auster, the 1/4 scale kit.  The wing parts were laser cut.  All you had to do was dry fit it together on the board then run around with the cyano.

Well, not quite, it was a bit more complicated than that, but that's what it felt like.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 22 August, 2020, 06:32:09 pm
Saving electrons.  Bits & bobs of Bird Dog (https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=22419.msg263730#msg263730)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 22 August, 2020, 07:36:13 pm
Nice job on the tailwheel.  I was thinking of digging into my paint stocks.

Stab is very organic indeed.  I'm just needing to fit the last three stringers on the fin before starting the fuselage.  I've read the instructions several timesbut I still can't visualise the fit of the fin onto it, I'm sure it will all become clear.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 22 August, 2020, 08:04:58 pm
Quote from: ElyDave
I was thinking of digging into my paint stocks.
Go for it.  There's no "right" way to do this stuff.

Quote from: ElyDave
I still can't visualise the fit of the fin onto it, I'm sure it will all become clear.
This is my current understanding of how it fits together and is subject to revision when I finally get to that point.  Sketch is rough as old boots, sorry. 

There may or may not be a need for the notch at the front of the base rib of the fin.  I built mine without, i.e base rib extends to LE of fin just in case I'd misread the plan. Easy to take the wood away if needs be.

The K8 parts are shaped before stab and fin are fixed in place. Put a bit of scrap 1/16" sheet on K6 tack or hold the K8 blanks in place and shape to F10. Put to one side fit stab & fin then glue in place.

(https://i.ibb.co/BCgvyB9/Fin-Fitting-Sketch.jpg)

Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 25 August, 2020, 08:58:49 pm
A bit more tinkering (https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=22419.msg263843#msg263843) with the Bird Dog.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 29 August, 2020, 07:41:40 pm
Fuselage more or less done.  Tail wheel & stabilizer stage to fit.  With luck a fortnight ought to see it finished. It always takes longer than you expect to cover and titivate scale(ish) models.

(https://i.ibb.co/cYVhPm8/Fuselage00.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/9Vk6mYH/Fuselage01.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 29 August, 2020, 08:37:02 pm
looking good, I was thinking about planking the front end as well.  I've built wings, fin and stab so far, plus strengthened the fuselage formers ready to start that.  Was planning to do some tonight, but I'm lying on the living room floor nursing my bad back
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 30 August, 2020, 08:28:45 am
Quote from: ElyDave
I was thinking about planking the front end as well.
It's worth the extra effort.  There's probably enough scrap in the kit sheet, but if your LMS sells balsa nip down there and get some light 1/16" sheet.  Don't believe the remark on the plan about it being reserved for "expert" builders.  All you need is patience and the willingness to throw bits away if you overcook it when sanding them to fit. 

Quote from: ElyDave
...strengthened the fuselage formers ready to start that.
A suggestion, cos I always find it an absolute bind getting wire UCs to sit level and get it wrong more often than I get it right.  After you've done the cross-members glue a couple of v. short guide / locating strips to the back of F5.  You can always cut/sand them out after the UC is fixed in place if you're obsessive about added weight.
(https://i.ibb.co/Gdq6Nrk/UCWire-Guide-Strips00.jpg)
test fit
(https://i.ibb.co/VjqDJhs/UCWire-Guide-Strips01.jpg)

Couple of other notes that you may, or you may not, find useful.

Use one length of cracked* strip each side for the top canopy framing rather than two bits of strip.  Much easier to fit.

Bring the canopy framing fixing forward to between steps 8 & 9.  Gives you a stable platform when you're fitting the UC wire in place.

Hope your back sorts itself out soon.

Cheers,
Lurk

*If this is stale buns to you I apologise. If not...put the slightest of scores in the strip and bend it gently to the angle you need. It'll crack at the score rather than break and you're left with a single piece of strip.  If it's a new trick to you cut a couple of bits of test strip from the sheet scrap and play with that.  When the part is glued in position smear a tiny bit of glue into the crack.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 30 August, 2020, 07:55:03 pm
No, I'm not getting this.  Shouldn't F5 be 1/4 ply?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 30 August, 2020, 08:40:09 pm
Quote from: andytheflyer
No, I'm not getting this.  Shouldn't F5 be 1/4 ply?
We're aiming for 25g-30g not 2.5kg to 3.0Kg :)

Anyway to the real reason for this post, couldn't make up my mind if OT Gallery/Unusual 'Planes or here but as Andy's jest required a riposte it's here.

I caught the tail end of this on the Beeb's news channel this afternoon.  It was first broadcast a month or two back.

Full prog.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000kzx7  I suspect that this will only be watchable by UK members of the parish

Short summary video.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRpWMlZ6s3M

So not only Beatrice Shilling, but Hazel Hill as well. 
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 30 August, 2020, 09:35:51 pm
Quote from: ElyDave
I was thinking about planking the front end as well.
It's worth the extra effort.  There's probably enough scrap in the kit sheet, but if your LMS sells balsa nip down there and get some light 1/16" sheet.  Don't believe the remark on the plan about it being reserved for "expert" builders.  All you need is patience and the willingness to throw bits away if you overcook it when sanding them to fit. 

Quote from: ElyDave
...strengthened the fuselage formers ready to start that.
A suggestion, cos I always find it an absolute bind getting wire UCs to sit level and get it wrong more often than I get it right.  After you've done the cross-members glue a couple of v. short guide / locating strips to the back of F5.  You can always cut/sand them out after the UC is fixed in place if you're obsessive about added weight.
(https://i.ibb.co/Gdq6Nrk/UCWire-Guide-Strips00.jpg)
test fit
(https://i.ibb.co/VjqDJhs/UCWire-Guide-Strips01.jpg)

Couple of other notes that you may, or you may not, find useful.

Use one length of cracked* strip each side for the top canopy framing rather than two bits of strip.  Much easier to fit.

Bring the canopy framing fixing forward to between steps 8 & 9.  Gives you a stable platform when you're fitting the UC wire in place.

Hope your back sorts itself out soon.

Cheers,
Lurk

*If this is stale buns to you I apologise. If not...put the slightest of scores in the strip and bend it gently to the angle you need. It'll crack at the score rather than break and you're left with a single piece of strip.  If it's a new trick to you cut a couple of bits of test strip from the sheet scrap and play with that.  When the part is glued in position smear a tiny bit of glue into the crack.

Useful tips thanks. That does seem a simpler method for the cabin section.

Whilst this laser cut stuff makes the build time quicker, some of the bits are quite fragile I've found, with the sharp tip of one of the tail for one.  Although the glider was a PITA in some ways, building stuff from strips at least meant a screw up could be redone.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 31 August, 2020, 08:40:58 am
Quote from: ElyDave
Whilst this laser cut stuff makes the build time quicker, some of the bits are quite fragile I've found, with the sharp tip of one of the tail for one.
Yes.  It's definitely an issue with kits, especially if you haven't got stocks of wood from previous builds and it's a large part that breaks. If you're talking about parts K8, the fillets fitted to the root of the fin then they'll be easy enough to replace from the carrier sheet and you might find a jig like the one sketched helpful.  I would have used a photo, but the jigs I made went into the bin as scrap so you're going to have make do with my ropey artwork.  Sorry.  The jig is also quite handy because you can leave the part being shaped in place and offer it up to the rear former / stab. stage to check how you're doing.

Summat else that might make working with laminated components easier is to ignore the instructions and not remove all parts from the carrier sheet and try and glue them together. Cut the first out, glue it to the second - still attached to the carrier sheet.  When the glue has set cut the composite free and glue it to the third lamination.  Rinse & repeat until all assembled. 

And while I'm busy teaching Granny how to suck eggs, a 3mm drill bit makes a perfect alignment mandrel for the noseblock and nose plug parts. Only don't leave it in place too long. :)

(https://i.ibb.co/xzxn3tg/K8Jig.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 31 August, 2020, 01:35:54 pm
I used the round end of a needlefile for that alignment.

The bit I broke a few mm off the end of was the curved section at the front of the fin, nothing serious.

And don't worry, any tips will be taken in the spirit intended, remember, although I've built plenty of polystyrene model kits and am reasonably mechanically adept, the glider was my first balsa model
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 31 August, 2020, 06:10:59 pm
Cyano is your friend when it comes to mending broken pre-cut bits.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 01 September, 2020, 07:39:27 pm
Got the one bit of the build I really wasn't looking forward to out of the way, sanding the NB laminations to shape.  And despite my very best efforts with the UC it's still sitting one wing perceptibly lower.  Ah well, get it right next time.  Perhaps.

Some bones shots. 

(https://i.ibb.co/ZzrhGg5/Bones00.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/wg3NbV0/Bones01.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/wprMcTy/Bones02.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/7KHDN6t/Bones03.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 01 September, 2020, 08:09:37 pm
Nice on the sanding, I've done a tentative start, and put it aside for now.  It really is a very lightweight kit isn't it.  I see you've not added the curved section between fin and body that I slightly damaged - is that to be added later?

A bit of help required on the glider if you can spare some thoughts? The wings are held together by a single thin strip, out of the pre-cut sheets. It glues against the central wing spar, passing though the innermost ribs via a slot, and is v-shaped to give the wing angle.  I managed to crack it during the initial wing covering as reported below and replaced with a spare.  I managed to crack it again today with just two landings onto a wingtip (flight was great until that point with reduced ballast).  As per pictures below - photo is me attempting repair held together with clothes pin while glue sets.

My thoughts on a solution are to glue a couple of pieces of strip fore and aft along the ribs and then build a ladder frame across with more bits of strip, otherwise I'm going to be forever rebuilding that section - it's just too fragile to take any load on the wingtip without ripping the tissue if nothing else. Any other ideas/suggestions?

(https://i.imgur.com/oRxgwAi.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Z632AW7.jpg)

Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 01 September, 2020, 08:30:25 pm
Is the dihedral brace balsa?  If it is (it really shouldn't be) get yourself some 1/16" or 1/32" ply sheet (SLEC, Balsa Cabin*, 16th for pref.) and cut a new dihedral brace from that and glue it to the back / front of the existing brace as is most convenient.  You'll probably find it easier if you remove the root bay tissue panels. Remove the underside panels to hide the patch when you re-cover.  Nice wing covering job by the way.

If you're splinting the old brace the ply one doesn't need to be the full depth of the current one, say 2/3,  so you don't have to enlarge the slots in the root ribs too much.  If you think you can remove the old brace safely, then cut a new full depth ply brace and be done with it.

And a quote to make you smile, my aunt's eulogy for my uncle, "...and the thing I learnt about flying model aeroplanes is that it involves far more fixing model aeroplanes than it does flying them."  Made me grin at the time, still does for that matter.

The fillet for the fin on the O-1 / L-19 won't be fitted until after it's covered.  For the bones shots it was all held together with blu-tack and mini clothes pegs.

Cheers,
Lurk

*If they're charging the earth I can send you a bit about the right size if you let me know what size you need.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 01 September, 2020, 08:56:45 pm
yes, the dihedral brace is balsa.

Do you really think that a single sheet of ply will be strong enough against the twisting/fore and aft forces?  There is nothing else in that gap.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 02 September, 2020, 05:16:39 am
The gap troubles me.  Have a thought,  but need to find a copy of the plan to see if feasible. 

In nutshell.  Glue root ribs together, losing gap altogether.  A "standard" construction.  Would still use a ply brace.  Need to see plan to confirm wing still fits on fuselage.  Scribble more after work.

ETA.
OK, should be working, but this is an emergency.:)
The plan* shows dihedral setting on the centre section root ribs.  This makes me think they /should/ be glued together and that the centre of the wing should sit just under the top line of the wing bay on the fuselage.


*If it's the plan pcolbeck linked a few pages back.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: JonBuoy on 02 September, 2020, 06:25:24 am
Looking at the plan that Pat linked to (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=107017.msg2518584#msg2518584) the root ribs should indeed be glued together.  The spar then gets a chance to work through the centre section.

Try measuring the span - if it is greater than 36" that is a pretty good indicator  :P
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 02 September, 2020, 06:55:39 am
Thanks guys, that gap bothered me from the start. My thinking was exactly the same as yours, but then if the wing root ribs were gluesd together, there would be no need for that brace.

I'll post a couple of shots of the box pics and instructions to show the ambiguity here. The wing root rib has a slot for the brace, which is cut to go to the next rib and butt up against it, leaving that gap.  The gap also ends up leaving a bit of slightly saggy tissue in the middle as you cover it.

I guess there is always a bit of adaptation with these things
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: JonBuoy on 02 September, 2020, 07:10:09 am
I can't see the amount of dihedral specified on the plan in which case the brace isn't a brace it is a jig.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 02 September, 2020, 07:56:36 am
Instructions here, possibly ambiguous.  No slot in R2, only R1, also used for another jig between the inner and outer wing sections.

(https://i.imgur.com/NRqkZNd.jpg?1)

Box-front image here, not really clear enough to see ribs joined or not

(https://i.imgur.com/vh7bh3y.jpg?1)

My build, two inner ribs seen between the elastic bands.  The wings sit on top of two bits of 3/32" square glued to the top of the fuselage longerons after covering. That seems to accomodate the centre of the gull-wing

(https://i.imgur.com/S9V0I8l.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 02 September, 2020, 08:10:33 am
Quote from: JonBuoy
I can't see the amount of dihedral specified on the plan in which case the brace isn't a brace it is a jig.
Yeah, I know I should be working. 

It is (sort of) shown, just in a horribly non-obvious way.  It looks like you're supposed to align the tops of the root ribs with the dotted lines shown on the plan.  If so that's ugly.

I think the phrase, "...join two wing halves at centre with full dihedral gusset J." is what we're looking for.

Could you post a photo of the wing mounting area of the fuselage - sans wing?  For this style of thing I'd *normally* expect to see a shallow V cradle or something that looks like if you squint.

Cheers,
Lurk.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 02 September, 2020, 09:24:40 am
Yeah, me too, but this is far more interesting.

(https://i.imgur.com/rBSwXvm.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/EiZd1PQ.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 02 September, 2020, 09:49:57 am
Yeah, that looks suitably cradle like.  For this style of mounting the fuselage bay is usually left uncovered so that the wing root can settle into the bay, but if the dihedral angle is quite shallow it won't be an issue.   I'll post a photo of one of mine this evening to show you what I mean.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Steph on 02 September, 2020, 01:48:30 pm
https://twitter.com/MWStory/status/1300788254418010121
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 02 September, 2020, 03:50:35 pm
Coo.  That's impressive. Annnd after the Lord Mayor's Show ...

Dave, this is the sort of thing I would normally expect to see.  The V shaped former doesn't have to support the wing, it just has to provide clearance for it.

(https://i.ibb.co/dbstGvj/Swallow-Fuselage.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 02 September, 2020, 03:53:36 pm
OK, so mine took the opposite approach and built up rather than taking away to achieve the same effect for the clearance.  I'm OK with that, but is there a consensus view on the wing brace/jig/gap fiasco?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 02 September, 2020, 04:31:36 pm
Quote from: ElyDave
is there a consensus view on the wing brace/jig/gap...
Without the wing in front of me, and please accept my apologies in advance for anything that is blindingly obvious, my suggestion is...

0.  Measure the current tip dihedral.

1.  Cut away the tissue on the underside of the root panels on each wing.  Leave a flap of about 1/2", errr 13mm, on the tissue that's left in place so that you can glue the cut edge down and get enough purchase on it to keep it taut.

2.  Cut the brace at the mid point to separate the wings. 

3.  Carefully remove the bits of brace from each half. 

If you haven't got a v. fine scalpel saw. Sand down the brace where it lies along the spar until all gone. Cut it as flush to the outside of the rib as possible, then san flush.  Use a fine drill bit in a pin chuck, or your fingers, to drill out most of the brace where it goes through the rib then using a cut down emery board sand out the slot.  If the root ribs suffer a bit splint them on the inside with some scrap sheet.  Won't make a significant difference to the AUW.

4.  Cut a new brace.  I would use 1/16" ply but it's not mandatory. 
If you are using balsa use the hardest you have to hand.  Nick some scrap from the Bird Dog kit if needs be.

5.  Re-assemble wing with root ribs glued together making sure you get the tip dihedral close to what it was.  Don't worry if it is not exactly the same.  As long as it's symmetrical and not wildly out it'll be OK. 

Clamping the root ribs together while the glue sets might be a bit tricky with the top root bay panels still covered.  You could prop the wing up on blocks to give clearance underneath for clothes pegs/clamps or use fine (silk or dress-makers) pins through the top covering to hold them together.  Do a dry run first to see what works best.  If push comes to shove cut the tissue away from the topside root panels. 

6.  Re-cover the underside panels. 

7. Sit back and enjoy the glow of a successful repair and the re-issue of its CoA. :)

Andy or JonBuoy might have better thoughts.
Cheers,
Lurk
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 02 September, 2020, 05:19:24 pm
Thanks, that's pretty much what I thought if the consensus was to stick the wings together at the root.

Based on experience with these wings I think it will be much easier to uncover top and bttom back to R2 (minus about 1/2") to allow access and then recover that central section in one go.  I've already removed the very centre section to assess the damage so some tissue repair is required to the top as it is, and I think I'll be neater working between ribs.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 02 September, 2020, 05:55:20 pm
I haven't seen the plan, but generically, I'd strip the covering off the panels R1 to R2, glue the root ribs together making sure that the dihedral is correct, and add a 1/16 ply brace to the spar and the LE and TE before re-covering.  Maybe only 1/32nd ply for the TE and LE as your wing loadings will be very low. You could glue the braces to one wing first once you are happy with the fit, and then glue the other wing to the root and braces. That removes a bit of opportunity for things to move while the glue is setting.  Since you need to re-slot the root ribs to accommodate the braces, maybe do one brace at a time?

If the dihedral is a bit out, then I'd add some softish sheet to one or both of the root ribs and re-profile to get the correct dihedral, before then joining the wings.

I say 'generically' because that's the usual way of doing it - unless this plan's different.

You won't need the 1/4 ply here. Trust me, I've done a few of these.   Even my big models never had braces more than 1/8 ply.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 05 September, 2020, 10:14:14 pm
So, having stripped back the covering to R2, removed the existing brace/jig and set up a couple of props for the inner wing dihedral, R1 does not go vertical. The two vertical ends of the centre wing spar are however a good reference

What I did find however is that the bottom of a camembert box is ply of exactly the right thickness to make a brace.  Tracing around the existing brace gave me a pattern to work from that I was able to trim at the outer edges to fit widthways.  I've glued it to one wing spar, once that's dry I'll do the other and also get some strip inbetween the ribs at the right point to keep the gap as well. 

I'm quite enjoying this avante-garde approach to the ambiguity of the instructions

And here it is, with a few fillets along the line to both stabilise and keep the gap consistent at the base, need to trim them to the line of the ribs once dry.  It looks like I've managed to keep the dihedral nicely.

(https://i.imgur.com/IN35wi0.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 06 September, 2020, 12:27:25 pm
Quote from: ElyDave
...the bottom of a camembert box is ply of exactly the right thickness to make a brace.
Consider that idea well and truly nicked.

Quote from: ElyDave
I'm quite enjoying this avante-garde approach to the ambiguity of the instructions...
Aero-modelling as improv. jazz.  Discuss.  :)

That fix looks very neat.  Were it me I would pack that gap with some medium block shaped to fit, or perhaps run some sheet infill into the top of the gap, to be sure that stress is more evenly distributed across the joint.  Mnd you I'm a bit of a worry-guts.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 06 September, 2020, 01:12:16 pm
I did think of a piece of strip down the centre of the formed by the ribs but thought that would be a stress concentrator. Now that I think its secure I'll add a few more wedges evenly in the gap, just to spread the load evenly as you say
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 07 September, 2020, 06:47:08 pm
Aero-modelling as improv. jazz.  Discuss.  :)

That fix looks very neat.  Were it me I would pack that gap with some medium block shaped to fit, or perhaps run some sheet infill into the top of the gap, to be sure that stress is more evenly distributed across the joint.  Mnd you I'm a bit of a worry-guts.
Ahem.  That was my point about adding balsa to the root ribs and re-profiling.  The wing joint needs to be strong so 100% glue contact is handy.  That is (well, was) my usual technique in dihedral wing joining.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 07 September, 2020, 07:37:11 pm
Not wishing to pooh-pooh the experience, but there is such a thing as over-engineering - ask IKB.  I've added another three or four wedges and I can't detect any play right now.

Come the first "positive landing" I stand ready to be told "I told you so"
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 08 September, 2020, 09:07:01 am
Not wishing to pooh-pooh the experience, but there is such a thing as over-engineering - ask IKB.  I've added another three or four wedges and I can't detect any play right now.

Come the first "positive landing" I stand ready to be told "I told you so"
;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 10 September, 2020, 07:22:45 pm
This might not look like a success, but it is.  Why?  Let me count the ways...

0)  The damage was due to a truly atrocious launch by a mate. He's forgiven. He's a trimming guru for rubbber models and I'm quite definitely not.

1)  It did fly.  Max was only 8 seconds because we were sorting out trim while stepping up winds on the motor (11", 3/16" x 2 strands, 3.75g) and only at 250/300 or so (1/4 - 1/3) max turn count.

2) It did not require any additional ballast, no tail weight or nose weight.  Haven't checked my notes yet, but IIRC that puts it comfortably sub 40g which is pretty good for a model of this type.

3) It sat "right" in the air which means that the design is right (wing & stab incidences, stab proportions etc) which is why it's a success as it's my first ever build from 3 view.

(https://i.ibb.co/QKVN9Cx/Strange-Success020.jpg)

What happens now?

0) Disassembly of both wings roots.  Could be a bit tricky, but has to be tried.
1) Improvement in wing root anchoring.  As currently drawn it's good enough for Keil Kraft grass, but not real world (footy pitch) grass.
2) Knock off or "sprung" UC legs.  The fixed design puts additional stress on the wing when "landing" on real world grass and a CFIT with a fully wound motor... well you can see the result above.  :)
3) Modify the plan to reflect the changes.

Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: rafletcher on 10 September, 2020, 07:32:09 pm
Today I was talking to a colleague during an office move, and he showed me a 35 year old 0.75cc diesel aero engine, With adjustable compression, which he ran on ether and castor oil mix.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 11 September, 2020, 07:08:00 am
Quote from: rafletcher
...showed me a 35 year old 0.75cc diesel aero engine...
Oh.  Oily jobs.  *Sniff* 

There are certain, sadly deluded, people hereabouts who like them and there's a whole sub-culture in aero-modelling given over to the care and nurturing of old (as in 50, 60 years and even older) IC model engines.  They even get to write about it in Aero Modeller!  Utterly baffling to all us right thinking (and you know we are) silent flight types. 

*puts spoon down to sit back to wait for Andy's expostulations and defence of noisy, smelly, recalcitrant and _expensive_ diesel engines*   :)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 11 September, 2020, 08:41:34 am
Quote from: rafletcher
...showed me a 35 year old 0.75cc diesel aero engine...
Oh.  Oily jobs.  *Sniff* 

There are certain, sadly deluded, people hereabouts who like them and there's a whole sub-culture in aero-modelling given over to the care and nurturing of old (as in 50, 60 years and even older) IC model engines.  They even get to write about it in Aero Modeller!  Utterly baffling to all us right thinking (and you know we are) silent flight types. 

*puts spoon down to sit back to wait for Andy's expostulations and defence of noisy, smelly, recalcitrant and _expensive_ diesel engines*   :)

Nah.  Not going to bite.   ;D ;D ;D

I will, however, have to get a cloth to wipe the cornflakes and coffee off my computer screen.............
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 16 September, 2020, 09:09:09 pm
Saving electrons. VMC Bird Dog WIP (https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=22419.msg264776#msg264776)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 16 September, 2020, 09:16:12 pm
I'm going slow due to masses of work keeping me brain dead in the evenings, but with the dansing programme on the beeb restarting, I predict an uptick in balsa fettling.

Fuselage structure mostly done, with front and rear stringers. Managed to get out of sequence and fit bottom stringers ahead of the undercarriage and F5A, but I can get them in with a bit of fiddling.  U/C bending went surprisingly well, will post a pic sometime.  Only made one error, tried to unbend it and snapped the wire.  Good learning curve, remaining wire was sufficient and I paid attention. Just need to trim the legs for the wheel fit.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 17 September, 2020, 05:45:21 am
ElyDave >I'm going slow due to masses of work keeping me brain dead in the evenings...

Likewise and the brain fog lead me to screw up the bottom line of the anti-glare panel which means it's wrong for 62620, but I'm consoling myself that there are examples out there which do have it as I've done it.  Just not 62620, grrrr.

ElyDave>... but with the dansing programme on the beeb restarting...

Lovely isn't it?  Two (or more) hours guaranteed to be absolutely free of interruption every Sat. for far more important things. :)

ElyDave> Just need to trim the legs for the wheel fit.

Don't do that until after you've fitted the wheels.  If you use an insulation sleeve to hold the wheel in place it's far easier to leave the UC leg overlong, fit the wheel, slide a longish sleeve into place, cut to length and then a put tiny dod of glue (epoxy, CA) on the cut end. Make sure the sleeve _is_ glued in place or you may find yourself having to make another wheel (or wheels) to replace any that get lost on landing in long grass.  Yes, that is the voice of (bitter) experience.

If you've yet to sand the wheels to profile it's worth knowing that the x-sect shown on the plan leaves you with quite a "square" looking wheel.  The tyres on the L-19/O-1 were chunky, but not _that_ chunky so a bit more of a curve than shown is required.  It's not obvious it's "wrong" until after you've painted the wheels.  DAHIKT.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 20 September, 2020, 05:34:20 pm
Sorry, but ICBA to log in to imgbb & upload pics. Moar Bird Dog WIP (https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=22419.msg264895#msg264895)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 25 September, 2020, 10:06:10 pm
Done all but five minutes of titivating. A little bit of paint on the underside of the nose and some matt Al. on the insulation sleeves holding the wheels on.

At least one glaring error in the decoration, *shrugs*.  Combination of tiredness and stupidity.  And, as is traditional for me, I have finished it just as the weather turns foul for the foreseeable.

Weight sans rubber 28.91g
       with        32.66
So throw in a motor peg and it'll be 33g for everyday.

(https://i.ibb.co/dJ8fJ2f/Stbd.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/8MvQGTK/Stbd-Fwd-Qtr.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/RhpLDsM/Port-Rear-Qtr.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/GkhC4XJ/Underside02.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/cNWD6Q9/Underside01.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 26 September, 2020, 04:10:26 pm
That's very nice TL.  I'd be proud of that. Hope you get the right weather for a maiden shortly.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 27 September, 2020, 09:41:08 am
Quote from: andytheflyer
That's very nice TL.  I'd be proud of that. Hope you get the right weather for a maiden shortly.
Ta.  Tomorrow and Tuesday are looking promising at the moment and the grass on the "aerodrome" is a good 6" to 8" long now
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 29 September, 2020, 09:15:16 pm
Bird Dog.  Got the glide sorted out, but power trials were not great.  Even on only 100 or so turns (about 1/8 of "safe" maximum) using the kit rubber (2 strands of 3/16") getting a stall.  Come the next calm am going to try with a spare 4 strand 3/32" motor.  Only had about half an hour this evening before testing curtailed by poor light & the dew setting in.


Thanks for the info! I hope WW comes back  with their full range.

This may already be well known, but I didn't know until yesterday that VMC have taken on West Wings' range of products.

This month's BMFA News, p49.  It's a throwaway comment in an, interesting, article about VMC's Balsa Basics RC Spitfire.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 29 September, 2020, 09:23:11 pm
Slow and steady progress in the flatlands. 

- Air intake lamination completed
- Nose block sanded to profile - a curious mix of art and engineering.  Will take another look after putting it aside for a day or so, just to make sure I'm happy with it
- U/C wires fitted, tail wheel fitted
- Front of fuselage planked
- wheels sanded to shape

Will post photos eventually.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 05 October, 2020, 10:05:20 pm
If your stocks of balsa are running low *now* would be a *very* good time to restock.  We're in for steep price rises, as much as twice current, quite possibly with low availability thrown in.  Seems the wind turbine industry is hoovering up vast quantities of balsa for blade cores. 
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 17 October, 2020, 06:03:05 pm
Bit more repair work, this time in the Chiribiri No. 5.   Have to say I was quite expecting this, the combination of bamboo & basswood in v. thin sections did seem a bit... delicate.  Should be a straight-forward repair, the trick will be working out how to improve strength without adding undue weight.  At the moment I'm thinking of either cyano impregnated paper strapping or v. fine wire or thread bindings.

(https://i.ibb.co/CmJ04ns/UCDamage.jpg)

However the Bird Dog is now part trimmed, up to 300 turns which is good for a circuit and a bit.  On which subject; Dave, the 3/16 kit rubber proved too beefy for mine.  More than 100 turns saw almost instant stall from hand launch.  I'm currently using a 4 strand 3/32" motor.  As far as nose weight goes mine need a big old lump, but my kit wood was pretty heavy and I've got the hinged rudder so perhaps to be expected.  There were a couple of other Bird Dogs at today's meet and there was quite a variation in nose weight from about the same as mine to perhaps 1/4 of what I'm using.  Mine also needs a 1/16" shim for downthrust and about 1/32" right thrust on top of the 2 degrees I built in.  As I managed to bend the prop. shaft - nasty stall into hard floor - I'm going to reseat the nose button to build this in.  Not sure when I'll be able to continue trimming it, but will post an update when I do to try and give you a head start on it.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 17 October, 2020, 08:19:34 pm
Total thread bomb with photos

Construction progress on Bird Dog, plus repair on Veron glider - a bit scrappy, but that v-section is difficult to get the tension.

U/C - managed to snap the wire once, but had enough to get it right second time.  Hopefully have enough for the struts inside the canopy as well.

(https://i.imgur.com/ICJ46Rb.jpg)

Fuselage and wings
(https://i.imgur.com/UgSN7be.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/32n7Znw.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/h7seq4A.jpg)

And the glider

(https://i.imgur.com/B1td4Yp.jpg)

And a top tip for weighting - if you are a single malt drinker (reasonable guess?) or have the occaisional good bottle of wine, the lead foil capsules aare great nose weights, easy to fold flat, cut, stick to things etc.


Today - painted nose block Tamiya Flat Green, wheels and anti glare panel Humbrol Matt Black. Pored over the instructions for the various cut-out sections prior to starting coverage and assembly
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 17 October, 2020, 08:53:13 pm
That's looking very nice, well done.  Are you TL in disguise?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 17 October, 2020, 09:08:27 pm
Quote from: andytheflyer
That's looking very nice, well done.
Andy beat me to the punch.  He's right, the BD is looking good and the wing repair looks absolutely fine.  FWIW I find that repaired models get more flights in than pristine, off the bench ones because, like that first scratch on a brand new bike, you become a little less precious about it.

> ... if you are a single malt drinker (reasonable guess?) ...
As it happens I am, but I only get through a couple or three bottles a year so that's not the most convenient source of ballasting... however ... I do have a couple of large offcuts of roofing lead that can be hammered, cut and or smelted* into convenient shapes.

> ...thread bomb...
You can never have too many pictures of aeroplanes.  Toy or otherwise.  :)

*H&S? Wossat then? 
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 17 October, 2020, 09:20:23 pm
H&S - that's for the workplace.  I have lost count of the times Mrs ED has retorted "call yourself an H&S man?"

In my defence, it's been a while since I've attended minor injuries.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 18 October, 2020, 08:43:25 am
Ah!Is this a common factor - model aeroplane building and malt whisky?

I'm an Islands man, particularly Islay.  Comes from geology field trips as a student to the Hebrides and the Scottish NW Foreland.  These rocks are not part of the UK y'know.

Malt - as seaweedy, smoky and peaty as possible please.  Laphroaig, Ardbeg, Port Charlotte.  None of those smooth, refined Highland potions.  Need to be just like me.  Rough and ready, uncultured.

And Grouse for everyday.  Well, not everyday, but you know what I mean.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 24 October, 2020, 09:59:47 pm
Quote from: ElyDave
In my defence, it's been a while since I've attended minor injuries.
Umm, about 2 years for me I think.  Cutting strip (and a finger) for the Walthew MKII.

Quote from: AndyTheFlyer
Malt - as seaweedy, smoky and peaty as possible please.  Laphroaig, Ardbeg, Port Charlotte.  None of those smooth, refined Highland potions.
I will drink them if offered, it's only polite after all and one wouldn't want to offend one's host, but my taste is for the refined* Highland potions.  :)

Fettling the Bird Dog after last week's trimming session.

Repairing the chipped air inlet. Dave you might want to think about case-hardening the air inlet with a smear of cyano, that fine edge is quite vulnerable. Yes, the NB did get re-painted. :)

(https://i.ibb.co/25Qk28V/NBUnder-Repair00.jpg)

Increasing the built in right & down thrust, now 2.5deg & 3deg.  Right is more or less there, may need a tad more down.

(https://i.ibb.co/F0f2SxK/Thrust-Alignment00.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/1rFJTYy/Thrust-Alignment01.jpg)

Move *most* of the ballast inside. Epoxied to the back of bulkhead 1.  At the moment up to 6g and likely to need more, that's what comes of not so great kit wood. All the ballast will end up inside when it's trimmed out, but easier to add than take away.
(https://i.ibb.co/sJhtxT3/Internal-Ballast.jpg)



*Oh dearie me, the voices of the Morningside Ladies in the cafe at Jenners.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 27 October, 2020, 10:50:27 am
Warp Speed Ahead

Oh dear, covered the tailplane and fin, following the instructions I shrank both sides of the tissue simultaneously (which I don't recall doing with the glider), and either because of that, or insufficient holding down, I have a wavy, wobbly horizontal tailplane.

What's the solution? Reshrink side by side with sufficient weight on top, or remove tissue and recover?
Or is it a result of a light construction and me trying to get the tissue too taut pre-shrinking?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 27 October, 2020, 11:51:02 am
Ah.  Million and one possibilities.

I'd strip it off, steam it for a good long time while bending it *gently* against the warp (don't burn* yourself) then pin it down for at least 24 hours.  Let it sit for a few hours after you unpin it, to see if takes up the warp again.  If it does, repeat. 

Definitely shrink the tissue on both sides at the same time, simple 1/16" sheet outlines don't have much warp resistance.

If it absolutely refuses to flatten after two or three goes use the existing parts as a template and cut new from the sheet scrap in the kit.  Another possibility is a laminated outline, which will have a better strength to weight ratio and is likely to be lighter than the sheet version, but we can leave that for another day.

I have been known to pre-shrink tissue before applying it to flat, lightweight frameworks.  Take something like an old picture frame, it needs to be *very* rigid, tape the tissue to that, mist or steam shrink it. Use the ready shrunk tissue to cover the framework, with as few wrinkles as possible, before doping it.  It'll shrink a bit more if your "dope" is a shrinking dope, but not too aggressively, taking up any small wrinkles.


*Easier said than done.  :)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 27 October, 2020, 05:33:17 pm
A thought.

Rather than using weights, which can shift, when you dope the tail.  Pin it down.  If your LMS has t-pins buy a packet of those, grab a hole punch and a something like a Total yoghurt pot lid - needs to be reasonably robust - and punch out lots of little discs.  Stick a pin through the centre of each little disc. 

Rest the stab. on some spacers placing lots of pins around the perimeter. Slide the discs down so that they hold the piece down firmly.  See the pic. below - they're being used to hold down some laminations for a rudder TE rather than a doped item, but you get the idea.

If you can't get t-pins easily Dunelm sell some long & relatively thick glass headed pins fairly cheaply which would do as well.

(https://i.ibb.co/w4Ggc7S/Bending-Up-The-Fin-TE.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 02 November, 2020, 08:53:26 am
Steamed the tailplane with the iron (in a pressing cloth) at the same time as smoothing the tissue, looks like it might be OK.

Wings covered over the weekend, one of them shrunk with no warps and the other drying now.  A little more structure in the wings to resist the warping. I foresee a lot of fiddliness getting all these paper templates cut and fitted, need to read the instructions fairly thoroughly before embarking on a spree of stuff. Good job I didn't throw all my OHP pens for acetates out, window templates marked up ready to go.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 02 November, 2020, 09:34:59 am
Quote from: ElyDave
Steamed the tailplane with the iron (in a pressing cloth) ...
Now that, that is a bloody good idea.  Nicked.

Quote from: ElyDave
I foresee a lot of fiddliness getting all these paper templates cut and fitted...
Err. Yes. :) The paper templates are highly unlikely to need any adjustment but holding the cut acetate in place will make you wish you were double-jointed and had a third hand.  The rear canopy isn't too bad, but the front and side glazing is a bit of a.... fiddle

I expect you've already worked it out, but in case you haven't, small bits of masking tape can be used to hold the main glazing in place until you've glued it.   The trick with cyano and acetate is to "spot weld" it rather than trying for a seam joint.  CA fogs acetate quicker than you can say, "Jack Robinson".

Bon chance.

Ermm.  Want some more free, probably unnecessary, advice?  When cutting the acetate, tape it down to the cutting board and then tape the template to the acetate and use a fresh blade.  Makes all the difference for the tight curves and notches.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 02 November, 2020, 08:53:37 pm
Still about half a mm out of true, think I'll give it another steaming.

Wings are looking OK though

Did you trace the patterns onto paper to place over the acetate?  I pinned it to the board over the plan and traced it with the OHP Pen
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 02 November, 2020, 09:24:21 pm
Quote from: ElyDave
Did you trace the patterns onto paper to place over the acetate?
I have done in the past, good old grease-proof paper to the rescue.  However this is, "The Modern World" - oops, sorry, wrong thread - and you can download the templates as A4 sheets from VMC.

Go here,

https://www.vintagemodelcompany.com/cessna-bird-dog.html

open the "Additional Resources" section and the templates are available as downloadable PDFs.

*Cave*  There are some very important guidelines missing from the downloadable tissue template sheet.  Compare closely with those printed on the plan.  I missed this vital step.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 04 November, 2020, 08:23:53 am
Cheers, will go and check, particularly to remember which of those are directly cut from the paper vs which might need to be transferred to something else, and which need to be done as LH and RH parts.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 13 November, 2020, 04:55:35 pm
Some good news from Vintage Model Company.  My highlight.

Quote from: VMC
The short story is that the balsa wood plantations and mills in Papua New Guinea and Ecuador are currently swamped with a flood of demand from wind turbine manufacturers. This new industry demand has drastically increased the market value of balsa wood and put pressure on supplies.

We require the best quality medium grade balsa wood for our rubber-powered free-flight kits and have been stockpiling this to keep our existing kits coming.

Unfortunately, this has meant that we have had to delay the release of our first batch of updated, laser-cut West Wings kits - we didn’t want to release them and then immediately run out of stock! Rest assured, West Wings is coming in the new year along with more models in the Aerographics range and a few extra surprises…

Luckily, our new Balsa Basics range of RC models are less compromised by the more readily available dense balsa and so we have been pushing these very hard - they are also truly excellent kits!

Some of you may be aware that we acquired SAMS Models just before the lockdown, but it took until lockdown was released in June to actually pick up the stock. Since then we have been flat out producing kits and shipping orders, so listing the many products from the SAMS inventory has had to take a back seat. We hope to get as much of this stock catalogued and listed on our website as possible but it may be the new year before this is done.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 20 November, 2020, 09:18:15 pm
Niche based divvery.

Some weeks ago.  Spend a few hours drawing up part profiles* for the Willow Wren.  Print them.
This evening, having started on the build, I realise that a couple need correction.  Fire up cranky old grid to correct same.... now where did I put them?   Oh balls... dev/null** that's where.  That's right, several hours work, printed but not saved.  I cannot for the life of me work out how I managed that.  The dull thudding sound you can hear is my head hitting my desk.

ETA.  Good news. SLEC have announced that they've come to a deal with the timber mill in PNG that supplies most of their balsa.  Prices will be going up, but not threefold.  Shipment expected to arrive Feb next year from PNG.  They've also got some wood on order from another mill in Ecuador by way of an experiment. It's allegedly good quality and may turn up before Xmas.



*Inkscape if yer interested.
**Or the Wondize equivalent.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 21 November, 2020, 03:56:18 pm
4/5th of a fuselage.

Peter Smart's Indoor Willow Wren*.  At the moment missing the dorsal stringers, keel, the last bits for the wing pylon and there's a little bit of fiddle work to do on the nose.  Short pause to sort out the unsaved part profile sheet divvery remarked upon earlier. Hope to have it finished some time tomorrow.

For those who desperately need to know these things.  Most of the sticks are 10.4lb wood and it's currently tipping the scales at 0.41g.

Lurk.

(https://i.ibb.co/NxLYXPw/Fuselage-Without-Pylon.jpg)

*Pre-war (1931) glider.  Peter won the Indoor Glider class at the 2014 Nats. with his original.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 23 November, 2020, 12:08:31 pm
rear canopy frustrations, having trouble getting it to stick to the rear deck of the cockpit.

Gave up yesterday as I was getting tired, which was not helping.

Good news, I re-covered the tailplane and it did not warp this time, that f@*$!r was pinned down tight!
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 23 November, 2020, 08:37:47 pm
Quote from: ElyDave
Good news, I re-covered the tailplane and it did not warp this time, that f@*$!r was pinned down tight!
<cmontgomeryburns>Excellent<cmontgomeryburns>  :)

Quote from: ElyDave
Gave up yesterday as I was getting tired...
Always the best plan. Fine, painstaking work & tiredness do *not* mix.  Umm, wanna buy a t-shirt?  Got lots. :)


Quote from: ElyDave
rear canopy frustrations, having trouble getting it to stick to the rear deck of the cockpit.
Some pics which outline how I did it.  Hope they help. If any of this isn't clear, shout and I'll try for a better explanation. Basically, don't stick the lower edges of the canopies to the fuselage. Use a tissue fillet.  Oh, buy a packet of Tunnocks Tea Cakes.  The clear film from the packet makes a very light and easy to work rear canopy.  If you don't like TTC, keep the box and film and I'll take the tea cakes off your hands.  Least I can do.

Technique
(https://i.ibb.co/GcqvX7K/Bird-Dog-Canopy01.jpg)

Examples
(https://i.ibb.co/1M5R3Nm/Bird-Dog-Canopy00.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/GxFn4vL/Bird-Dog-Canopy02.jpg)


Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 23 November, 2020, 10:00:39 pm
Glue tissue to canopy, then slit, then glue to back of rear fuselage?

That's actually a variant of what I had in mind, but a bit neater. I was thinking about cutting the acetate to fit inside the curve and then overlaying tissue. I think I also need to be a bit more precise on my cutting of the acetate.  The front is looking much easier on trial fit and I have an overlap of tissue on the side sections I was planning on using to hide the joint there

I assume the bit I can see at the rear running across the back is the paper part forming the rear deck?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 24 November, 2020, 06:24:12 am
ED> Glue tissue to canopy, then slit, then glue to back of rear fuselage?
Aye, no magic involved. :)

ED> I assume the bit I can see at the rear running across the back is the paper part forming the rear deck?
It is.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 24 November, 2020, 08:22:46 pm
Willow Wren.  SitRep.
So far 6 or 7 sessions plus a very great deal of "thinking" time.
Hard part done.  One fuselage, 0.94g.  Going to be a bit of a stretch to hit the 6g target weight.

(https://i.ibb.co/qBLXNJs/Fuselage-Complete00.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/V30kfs3/Fuselage-Complete01.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/wYsPWFb/Fuselage-Complete02.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 27 November, 2020, 04:59:35 pm
I presume you have seen this:

https://youtu.be/Ftlx3UJ3BWw

Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 28 November, 2020, 08:12:34 am
PC > I presume....
I have, many times, but thank you for the thought.  It's bloody good, isn't it?

The reason I'm building it is because Peter brought his Willow Wren, yes, the one in the film, to the Trinity indoor meet and flew it there back in January and I was *very* taken with it.  I asked him nicely (I grovelled, not a pretty sight) for a copy of his plan and after he'd sorted out the technology he sent me a scanned copy of his hand-drawn original, just in time for us all to be confined to barracks. The only reason I didn't get it started until a couple of weeks ago was because I wasn't able to collect the 1/20" sheet I'd ordered in Jan. until mid Sept.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 28 November, 2020, 07:59:39 pm
As we're sharing YT links.  Got these from a friend of MrsL this morning.

RC Ornithopters.  Fascinating, especially the commercial use by Aerium.

One of these, can't remember which, has some bloody irritating music.  The mute  button is your friend.

https://youtu.be/2IWsyEClC1E
https://youtu.be/k34rVuu8N-c
https://youtu.be/w6VLzKACnS8
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 28 November, 2020, 08:58:52 pm
Minor faffing taking inordinate time this evening, whilst Dire Straits, Alchemy goes on in the background on Sky Arts

Tidying up some aesthetic errors that would otherwise bug me
Doping surfaces prior to assembly
Trial fitting of canopies - I think I have the rear right-sized and waiting for that tissue trim to dry. Front also fits well
air intake lamination superglued
Need to find wires for the detail inside the canopy.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 29 November, 2020, 04:02:38 pm
Quote from: ElyDave
Need to find wires for the detail inside the canopy.
Tell me more....

Bit more done on the Willow Wren.  One wing.  Weight now 2.07g

(https://i.ibb.co/CKyCQjS/Wing-Tied-In-Place02.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 29 November, 2020, 08:47:25 pm
Had enough left over from the undercarriage wire in the kit for the front, rear is 1mm copper coloured Al bonsai wire, stuck with cyano.  Front coloured with a magic marker.

Rear canopy superglued in place, and frill stuck with diluted pva, and weighted down until it dries.

Wing, sneakily warped after the coat of dope, where it hadn't under shrinking, so is now pinned down on a board with a second coat.

(https://i.imgur.com/Wxu2bAf.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/LRoP5B5.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 30 November, 2020, 06:46:09 pm
Quote from: ElyDave
Had enough left over from the undercarriage wire in the kit for the front, rear is 1mm copper coloured Al bonsai wire, stuck with cyano.  Front coloured with a magic marker.
Ahh.  I was lazy.  I glued a couple of fine lines of black tissue inside the rear canopy and a single central one of grey on the outside of the front windscreen.

It's looking good.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 02 December, 2020, 08:16:21 pm
Willow Wren is airframe complete.  Hope to make a start on covering it the weekend.  Scheme will be blue fuselage with blue LE to stab, fin and wing.  Remainder will be covered in antique white to simulate doped linen.  Tacked together with masking tape for the bones pics, so a little wonky.  As seen 2.7g

Fuselage  0.95
Wings     1.13
Stab.     0.25
Fin       0.05
Struts  < 0.16 (blanks cut, but not yet shaped to final size)
Hook    ~ 0.14 (paper clip, cut & bent for rough approx).

(https://i.ibb.co/P51DPXd/Airframe-Complete01.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/nRZhv91/Airframe-Complete02.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/XyjZDwf/Airframe-Complete00.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/rM8cJ4G/Levko-Cyano.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 09 December, 2020, 08:17:47 pm
One 20" span Willow Wren, plan by Peter Smart.

Limited aviation has been committed, test glide on to bed, and looks very promising.
Weights
Unballasted 4.5g
Ballast        1.0g

The scheme is the Blue Wren which was Bill Manuel's second Wren.  Whether it's accurate or not is another matter.  No images, colour or otherwise, of the Blue Wren survive.  Just as well, eh? :)



(https://i.ibb.co/RD19641/Port-Front-Quarter.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/ySsG08M/Topside.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/vVVqpqq/Underside.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 11 December, 2020, 12:48:43 pm
Interested in your pics on the BD, you seem to have put K8 on TOP of the tailplane, I assume to act as a strengthener between it and the vertical tail?
Which makes sense with the instruction to "chamfer to the profile of F10"
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 11 December, 2020, 03:16:36 pm
Quote from: ElyDave
... you seem to have put K8 on TOP of the tailplane, I assume to act as a strengthener between it and the vertical tail?  Which makes sense with the instruction to "chamfer to the profile of F10"
This sounds very like you're in the final stages of assembly.  :)

That's my reading of the plan.  I think any strengthening of the joint is serendipitous, but welcome.  I think it's likely the main reason is to mimic the shape of the prototype where the fin joins the fuselage.  A quick image search turns up a few rear / side views that seem to confirm that. It's almost as if the fin has been slotted into the rounded top of the fuselage.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 11 December, 2020, 03:35:48 pm
Slowly, but surely...

But yes, you're right - have a look at this one, shows it fairly well.

https://cessnabirddog.org/photo-galleries/221st-rac-cockpit/#bwg18/83 (https://cessnabirddog.org/photo-galleries/221st-rac-cockpit/#bwg18/83)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 12 December, 2020, 01:50:57 pm
Quote from: TheLurker
The scheme is the Blue Wren which was Bill Manuel's second Wren.  Whether it's accurate or not is another matter.  No images, colour or otherwise, of the Blue Wren survive.  Just as well, eh? :)
Oh dear.  Just found a photograph from Xmas 1937 of the Blue Wren being rigged near Cape Town.  It's B&W, but it definitely looks dark blue rather than light.  Hey ho.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 12 December, 2020, 06:51:11 pm
Quote from: TheLurker
The scheme is the Blue Wren which was Bill Manuel's second Wren.  Whether it's accurate or not is another matter.  No images, colour or otherwise, of the Blue Wren survive.  Just as well, eh? :)
Oh dear.  Just found a photograph from Xmas 1937 of the Blue Wren being rigged near Cape Town.  It's B&W, but it definitely looks dark blue rather than light.  Hey ho.

Have you seen this article on Bill Manuel's gliders?

http://www.glidingheritage.org.uk/documents/articles/Bill_Manuelv5.pdf
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 12 December, 2020, 08:08:19 pm
I have, thanks, but keep 'em coming it's all helpful.  That doc. is pretty much the definitive history.  The photo I mentioned is at the top of page 13.  I had read it back when Peter sent me a copy of his plan back in February, but I had completely forgotten there was a pic. of the BW in it.  What's really interesting (well it interests *me*) is the variation between the various Willow Wrens.  As far I can see no two are the same.

Now..., if you can turn up a colour photo of the Blue Wren showing it was *light* blue?  :D
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 12 December, 2020, 08:27:06 pm
I know there's a Spitfire fan club hereabouts ....

https://www.spitfireinmyworkshop.net/spitfire.php
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 12 December, 2020, 08:43:08 pm
I know there's a Spitfire fan club hereabouts ....

https://www.spitfireinmyworkshop.net/spitfire.php

Blimey!
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 13 December, 2020, 08:35:27 pm
Getting there, but now run out of superglue and the stuff on order hasn't arrived yet, calling a halt to proceedings.

Canopy now complete, maybe a bit of tidying at the edges.
K8 covered and fitted
Wing struts covered, and drying
Front anti glare panel finally looking matt
Now just need superglue to fit the motor peg, then the decoration if I go that way
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 13 December, 2020, 09:11:46 pm
Don't glue motor peg in!!!
Write more tomorrow evening.
03:00 start so need to crash now.
Repeat. Don't glue peg in place.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 14 December, 2020, 08:53:49 am
NO - superglue to harden the hole for the motor peg.  I know the peg is not to be glued in place  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 14 December, 2020, 03:06:31 pm
Phew!  You had me worried.  :)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 23 January, 2021, 10:32:19 pm
Been working the plan for this one up for about  a year now off and on.  Airspeed Tern, Free Flight, 34" span.  This really is a bit of a punt and if it ever gets aloft it could get sticky (metaphorically and actually) very, very quickly.  Strongly tapered wings are more than a little iffy for Free Flight.  Hoping to counteract any tendency to tip stalling and spinning with 3 deg. of dihedral and 3 deg, of washout.  Fallback is to build a second wing with 4.5 deg of dihedral.  Construction started a fortnight or so back.  Slow progress.  Port wing last weekend, wing centre section this last 3 or 4 days.

(https://i.ibb.co/z4Txy3P/fuselage.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)  (https://i.ibb.co/fd4rL4K/wing.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)


(https://i.ibb.co/n88Kz5D/Three-Deg-Dihedral.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bRRGz8r)
(https://i.ibb.co/4YRRz5P/WingPlan.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/MV6QcYW/Centre-Section00.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DCpT9xs)
(https://i.ibb.co/RTWwb9Y/Centre-Section01.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Dfn2Wtz)
(https://i.ibb.co/MNVCXb8/Centre-Section02.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BsZC1m4)
(https://i.ibb.co/2dnJTcZ/Centre-Section03.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4pmkH41)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: philip on 27 January, 2021, 09:40:12 pm
Something slightly different, a radio controlled glider sets a speed record: 548 mph

https://newatlas.com/aircraft/dynamic-soaring-speed-record-spencer-lisenby/
https://www.youtube.com/embed/4eFD_Wj6dhk

It's flying on the downwind side of a mountain using dynamic soaring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_soaring).
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Jaded on 29 January, 2021, 09:34:36 am
Barking!
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: JonBuoy on 29 January, 2021, 12:45:39 pm
I liked the idea that albatrosses can dynamic soar their way across the oceans in their sleep.

I wonder what they dream about.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Kim on 29 January, 2021, 12:56:13 pm
I liked the idea that albatrosses can dynamic soar their way across the oceans in their sleep.

I wonder what they dream about.

Riding a bike.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: cycleman on 29 January, 2021, 06:29:03 pm
And narwhals  :D
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Ashaman42 on 29 January, 2021, 06:55:31 pm
Electric narwhals.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 13 February, 2021, 09:58:17 pm
Quote from: philip
Something slightly different, a radio controlled glider sets a speed record: 548 mph...
Crumbs.

Meawhile, back at the shallow end of the pool... it's beginning to look like a Tern.

(https://i.ibb.co/Qv4qhCx/Fuselage-Mostly-Done00.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/JBWCn3r/Looking-Like-Tern00.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/chZ0wb5/Looking-Like-Tern01.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/f8wgGfp/Looking-Like-Tern02.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 21 February, 2021, 07:22:27 pm
Airspeed Tern. It marches very slowly. A photo-bomb post.

Ballast chamber. Plan is for bulk of noseweight to sit on shelf under nose stringers and the chamber is solely for day to day tweaking of trim to suit the wind conditions.
(https://i.ibb.co/CQx3VFq/Ballast-Chamber01.jpg)

Fitting the coaming and forward wing roots to form the cockpit space. Coaming is tissue reinforced soft 1/32" sheet.
(https://i.ibb.co/ygwHNSS/Coaming-Fitted.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/G7dSWmy/Wing-Root-Port01.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/GcH2Mp1/Fuselage-Stbd-With-Centre-Sect.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/1vrM4kG/Fuselage-Port-With-Centre-Sect.jpg)

Noseblock showing removable front cone.  Ballast, adjustment. For the use of.
(https://i.ibb.co/jyHYyQm/Nose-Unplugged.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/f46FWR3/Nose-Ahead.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 22 February, 2021, 12:06:01 pm
Airspeed built these in York at their original factory right in the middle of town (it had been a trolly bus depot) which was unfortunately demolished about five years ago.
Interesting company, Nevil Shute was one of the founders and Lord Grimthorpe who's estate is based in our village and Alan Cobham were among the other directors.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 22 February, 2021, 03:51:23 pm
...Interesting company, Nevil Shute was one of the founders ...
Ahem. I think you mean Mr. Norway.  ;)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 27 February, 2021, 08:19:23 am
Quote from: pcolbeck
Airspeed built these in York at their original ...
If you haven't already read it and can get your hands on a copy, read, "Slide Rule" by our hero.  It deals mostly with his time at Vickers on the R-100 with Barnes-Wallis and the setting up and running of Airspeed.  No, you can't have my copy.  :)


Airspeed Tern.  Last night saw the final "large" sub-assembly done.  As pictured 21g, but by the time various bits & bobs like skids, pegs, hooks and so on are added the true bare bones weight will be more like 25g or so, so allowing 10g for tissue and dope and taking the Baby Minimoa as an example for noseweight probably looking at about 40g AUW.  There are a few hem hem, "not queit rite" bits, but, as any fule kno, it is a model not a faxsil faccslil excat copy.


(https://i.ibb.co/88J1KJb/Fin-Blank-Done.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/8mZHDk5/Stbd-Rear-Quarter.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/ysKnfsR/Stbd.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/sCZdFyr/Port.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/483vWhk/Port-Forward-Quarter.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Beardy on 27 February, 2021, 04:48:23 pm
That’s reminiscent of the swallow I once flew. It’s a bit nerve wrecking as a noice pilot getting into a single seater for the first time because up until that point you’ve had someone to check that you’re DOIN’ IT RIGHT.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: JonBuoy on 27 February, 2021, 08:46:46 pm
I used to own a ninth of a Swallow but that looks far more elegant.


Only photo I could readily find:

(https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/abpic-media-eu-production/pictures/full_size_0126/1190796-large.jpg)

It definitely had a tailplane, canopy and central coaming when I flew it.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Beardy on 27 February, 2021, 09:21:53 pm
A lack of tailplane seems to be something of a theme on that there airfield  ;D

I like the paint job.  :thumbsup:

My first launch (aero-tow) in the swallow, and also my first single seater launch, got as far as the end of the runway. PIO resulted in the tug pilot releasing the tow at the same time I did which left the towrope free to drape itself over my starboard wing and jam in the aileron. Fortunately I wasn’t high enough to need to do anything other than land ahead and I had sufficient excess runway to do so safely. I wasn’t allowed to get out of the plane and was pushed back to the launch point, clipped on to the now returned tug and launched successfully. I had to buy the tug pilot a pint in the bar that evening  :D
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 28 February, 2021, 08:04:37 am
I used to own a ninth of a Swallow...
I own a whole Swallow, but it's only 1/9th, well 1/14th if we're being accurate, the size of a real one.  :) 

West Wings semi-scale take on the design.  I have to say mine looks a good deal shabbier these days than it does in the pic.
(https://i.ibb.co/Rg4hhTV/Stickleback-Complete02-small.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 02 March, 2021, 12:51:45 pm
Quote from: pcolbeck
Airspeed built these in York at their original ...
If you haven't already read it and can get your hands on a copy, read, "Slide Rule" by our hero.  It deals mostly with his time at Vickers on the R-100 with Barnes-Wallis and the setting up and running of Airspeed.  No, you can't have my copy.  :)

Thanks for the recommendation. Just ordered it off that Amazon.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Efrogwr on 02 March, 2021, 04:12:47 pm
Quote from: pcolbeck
Airspeed built these in York at their original ...
If you haven't already read it and can get your hands on a copy, read, "Slide Rule" by our hero.  It deals mostly with his time at Vickers on the R-100 with Barnes-Wallis and the setting up and running of Airspeed.  No, you can't have my copy.  :)

Thanks for the recommendation. Just ordered it off that Amazon.


I've just started reading... I think that it's going to worth it! So thank you, Lurker.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 26 March, 2021, 10:27:05 am
Ready for flight trials.  Just as the settled weather comes to a close and we have wet, windy and generally unpleasant grot for the foreseeable.  Some "glamour" snaps without the uglifying pegs & bands.

Underside & nose won't be covered until balanced and hook positions confirmed as OK.  Windscreen to be fitted after all covering complete.  Looking like my estimate of 40g for an initial trimmed AUW is about right.  Weight this morning including all components not yet fitted 33.5g and assuming, cf Baby Minimoa, it'll need between 5g & 6g up front.  Puts the wing loading at about 7.5g/dm^2.  A bit on the high side to my mind, but that, taken with the, FF unfriendly, strongly tapered planform was factored in as one of the risks for this "project".

Cock-ups? Oh dearie me, yes.
- Coaming should be about 3-4mm deeper at the front.
- Should have used medium strip not soft for the dorsal stringer.  Noticeable starved horse due to tissue tension.
- No ply facing on wing LEs.  I had intended to do them, but I'm using EzeDope and domestic tissue and that's a poor combination for multiple layers of tissue. The "ply" facings at the bottom of the rudder did not go well and I'm not going to bugger up the LEs.


(https://i.ibb.co/qpmjNyT/Ready-For-Testing00.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/NFNkgRK/Ready-For-Testing01.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/VN3jPSX/Ready-For-Testing02.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 30 March, 2021, 09:52:24 pm
It flies.

Like the Baby Minimoa, it's never going to break any records, but it does fly so I'm quite pleased.

There's a tight LH circuit says something's not straight, but my dud old eyes can't see what. My money is on the washouts being not quite identical as result of my having to remove & reset the port outer section when I fouled up the dihedrals during the build.  Not going to fret too much as I can probably trim it for a more open circuit.

As shown it's flying at between 40 & 41g with a 1/32" (ish) shim under the LE of the stab, a touch of right rudder and (probably undersized) gurney under the port wing.

These flights all in very light airs to near flat calm.

1st more or less trimmed test glide -  https://vimeo.com/ 530934126

Maiden Flight - https://vimeo.com/ 530941681  Yes, that really *is* the maiden flight.  Launch off 10m 0.045" strip, 10m line and 10 paces

Couple of later flights. All 11 or 12 paces on the line.

https://vimeo.com/ 530946610
https://vimeo.com/ 530941681
https://vimeo.com/ 530951753

It's the usual, glue the URLs together, game and if you're using a Linux machine you may find they won't play.  Sorry.  They don't on my Linux (Mint 20) box, but they're OK on my (now retired) Windows 7 and Android machines.

Cheers,
Lurk
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 31 March, 2021, 06:22:16 am

Slight cock-up on the cut and paste front last night, *this* is the maiden flight.   https://vimeo.com/ 530936483
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 31 March, 2021, 08:21:37 am
Nice. They play fine on my Linux latop by the way (Firefox on Ubuntu 20.04). Perhaps you just have a codec missing on yours.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 31 March, 2021, 03:45:55 pm
Quote from: pcolbeck
Nice. They play fine on my Linux latop by the way (Firefox on Ubuntu 20.04). Perhaps you just have a codec missing on yours.
Ta.


It's Opera, tried with Firefox & all is hunky dory.  Quick poke around on teh intarwebtubes indicates that Opera does stupid things.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 06 April, 2021, 08:31:38 pm
And we're done.  Note the super detailed cockpit. *cough* *cough* *cough*

(https://i.ibb.co/qy2mDG6/Port-Fwd-Quarter.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Kjj4fKQ/Port-Rear-Quarter.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/7JhXhvc/Super-Detailed-Cockpit.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/6nNQGVS/StbdNose.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/7vTdJLY/PortNose.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Q6dyD5R/PortTail.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: trundle on 06 April, 2021, 10:47:15 pm
That looks smashing. Well done.

I'm a bit of a fan of gliding, and especially vintage gliders. I had a cracking evening in a T.21 at Booker this summer.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Zipperhead on 07 April, 2021, 02:15:01 pm
That looks lovely!
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 07 April, 2021, 04:21:14 pm
you wouldn't happen to have an electronic version of those plans for the Tern would you? 

I've completed the Bird Dog with the exception of the PITA job of cutting out all the markings, and making sure it flies - must remember to post photo here.

Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 07 April, 2021, 04:25:03 pm
Airspeed built these in York at their original factory right in the middle of town (it had been a trolly bus depot) which was unfortunately demolished about five years ago.
Interesting company, Nevil Shute was one of the founders and Lord Grimthorpe who's estate is based in our village and Alan Cobham were among the other directors.
[/quote

Grimthorpe or Grimsthorpe?  Only asking as I ran an ultramarathon several times at Grimsthorpe Castle in Lincolnshire.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: pcolbeck on 07 April, 2021, 04:45:13 pm
Airspeed built these in York at their original factory right in the middle of town (it had been a trolly bus depot) which was unfortunately demolished about five years ago.
Interesting company, Nevil Shute was one of the founders and Lord Grimthorpe who's estate is based in our village and Alan Cobham were among the other directors.
[/quote

Grimthorpe or Grimsthorpe?  Only asking as I ran an ultramarathon several times at Grimsthorpe Castle in Lincolnshire.

Ralph Beckett, 3rd Baron Grimthorpe. His seat was Westow Hall (currently his grandson Edward Beckett, 5th Baron Grimthorpe is the resident).
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 07 April, 2021, 06:18:56 pm
Thanks for the kind words.  It's never going to be a world beater as far as flight performance goes, but it's a small scale (ish) model with a not especially generous wing area so I'm not that cut up about it.

ElyDave > ...electronic copy...
See PM and get a wriggle on with those pics of the Bird Dog. :)

ETA.  For those reading NSN's autobiography.  I found out last week that there is film of R-100's arrival in Canada after its transatlantic proving flight. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbFhMxeTL2U
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 10 April, 2021, 04:00:18 pm
Here she is

(https://i.imgur.com/3QIh6wj.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/khe11Me.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/nr48BpB.jpg)



Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 10 April, 2021, 04:37:10 pm
Excellent!
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: ElyDave on 10 April, 2021, 08:52:10 pm
Just need to see how she flies, if the wind ever drops
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 25 April, 2021, 07:48:49 am
Got a chance to fly toy aeroplanes indoors yesterday so was finally able to test the Willow Wren (20" span, 5.5g AUW), see upthread for more detail.  It works.

These snaps, taken by my grate freind Andy, from a test glide and a couple of different flights.  Yes, the socking great lump of plasticene (all 1g of it) will end up inside the nose due course. :)

(https://i.ibb.co/fpf0mqV/IMG-4478.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/MMJ0qms/IMG-4482.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/N9MtdK1/IMG-4461.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Bzr934v/IMG-4380.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/MgnVv6J/IMG-4378.jpg)

And finally, my cheap knock-off copy with Peter Smart's original which can be seen flying in the youube link posted by pcolbeck in this post. (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=107017.msg2563913#msg2563913)

(https://i.ibb.co/kXkkRzF/Flight-Of-Wrens-04.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 25 April, 2021, 08:05:26 am
 Beautiful. That must be really rewarding.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 25 April, 2021, 08:50:34 am
Well done TL.  I know just how satisfying that will be for you.

What's next?
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 25 April, 2021, 02:21:20 pm
Quote from: andytheflyer
What's next?
Decorating.  Hey ho... :)

Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 15 May, 2021, 07:36:21 pm
A mixed sort of day ...

(https://i.ibb.co/1q5k1MP/Lurk-CFIW-50.jpg)

It survived the impact with wall, flying so nicely too, but not the 15' dead drop to the floor.  It is repairable, but I'm going to bin it and (probably) build a new one with a moveable rudder and sort out a couple of things that niggled me about this one while I'm about it.
 
On the plus side my Lurker Locust (a knock-off copy of the BMFA Gyminnie Cricket) was stooging around quite nicely on 2 strands of 3/32" strip at about 950 turns which puts it *just* clear of the roof furniture.  One of these (flat calm) days I'm going to take it outside and wind the motor up to it's max of about 1700 turns and let it go. 

https://vimeo.com/ 549674643   <-- tack the url bits together

ElyDave.  Got one (just) ROG out of the Bird Dog, but it was touch and go (literally) at 800 turns and the motor was "tired" when I tried at 1,000 turns and just skittered along the ground so will make a new, longer, motor for the next meet and see what it does on 1,100 or more.

Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 16 May, 2021, 07:56:00 am
Ah Lurk.  Goes with the territory unfortunately.  You are right too - sometimes it's better to bin the remains of an unplanned return to earth in favour of  a new one - repairs add weight too. DAMHIKT.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 21 May, 2021, 10:52:12 pm
Quote from: andytheflyer
Ah Lurk.  Goes with the territory unfortunately.  You are right too - sometimes it's better to bin the remains of an unplanned return to earth in favour of  a new one - repairs add weight too. DAMHIKT.
Aye, if you can't live with the crashes and rebuilds take up another hobby, like stamp collecting.  :) 

Speaking of rebuilding.  That of the Chiribiri 5's UC* continues slowly.  It's given me an excuse to replace the original port wheel which I was never very happy about, the hub wasn't properly centred.  It's only taken three goes (or three evenings) and some sotto voce swearing to get an acceptably round and unbuckled wheel.  24 spoke, 2 cross if yer interested.

Look! It revolves and it's not (very) out of true!  :)  https://vimeo.com/ 553521911   (yes, it's tack the URL together time)

Bit of sanding, sealing and painting yet to do, but this one will do. 

Cheers,
Lurk

*It collapsed on its first ever glide test.  There's probably a pic somewhere up-thread.  If anyone's interested I'll sort out a few snaps of the reinforcements and enhancements.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 31 May, 2021, 08:39:11 am
Fat lad at the back!  For a no-cal this is a a positively lardy 5.5g without tail weight, yes Andy it will need tail weight. It's that plastic abomination at the front, puts CG at about 25% of root chord.  If it ever shows signs of flying then the ready made... article will be swapped out for a balsa airscrew.  However, it won't matter if its 1st flight is straight into the dustbin as its main purpose is to wind up a couple of the other "club" bods.  Bit of a Marmite aircraft yer Lacey M-10. ;)



(https://i.ibb.co/vHt5BJn/Fatty-M10-02.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/zfFvCXS/Fatty-M10-01.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/44P2XFG/Fatty-M10-00.jpg)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: andytheflyer on 01 June, 2021, 08:18:27 am
Didn't say a word...........
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 19 June, 2021, 09:56:25 pm
Well the joke M-10 flew, after a fashion* but more importantly the Chiribiri No. 5 finally committed recognisable, if comical, aviation.  Only 13 or 14 months after it was completed and one undercarriage rebuild.

Currently tips the scale at a sneeze under 18g but that will, obviously, have to be increased to sort out the stall.

Film clip courtesy of my mate Andy Blackburn.    https://vimeo.com/ 565080946    <-- glue the URL together.

*No tail weight but did need gurney strips on the elevators.  Got it up to a repeatable 20s and, if I could be fussed to tinker with it, it could probably be turned into a half decent flyer.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 23 July, 2021, 08:18:51 pm
One uncovered airframe.  No prizes other than bragging rights if you can identify it, but anyone who was in the RAF, ATC or Air Cadets up until oooh late 1960s or even the early 1970s should have a good idea what it is.

(https://i.ibb.co/100vJ67/Bones00.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/kJmdSN4/Bones01.jpg)

Yeah, the nose block *is* a bit on the blunt side.  I'll do a new one *after* the initial flight trials and trimming cos this one is likely to get dented.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: JonBuoy on 23 July, 2021, 09:09:56 pm
From the hints I am guessing that it is a Prefect.  Shouldn't it have struts?  I flew a privately owned one maybe 25 years ago but can't remember much about it other than getting tutted at by the owner for an over exuberant sideslip on the approach  ::-)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 23 July, 2021, 09:23:25 pm
Quote from: JonBuoy
From the hints I am guessing that it is a Prefect...
Ladees & Gennelmen we have a winner!  :)

> ...shouldn't it have struts? 
It will, but they'll be the last things fitted after covering.

Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 22 August, 2021, 10:02:26 am
Chiribiri No. 5.  Getting there.   Yesterday.

https://vimeo.com/ 590509079   <-- Bolt them together.

Newsreel courtesy of Jon Markovitz

Still stalling, but was expecting that as I'd swapped out the plasticene for a slightly lower Pb weight - smaller volume, brings the mass forward a fraction - and am bringing the weight back up slowly.  Matters not helped by my wasting a good fraction of the session trying to get it airborne with a tired motor which resulted in lots of high speed ground runs and a complete refusal to unstick. Clot.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 22 August, 2021, 12:14:18 pm
I forgot to post this...

 https://vimeo.com/ 590276957

John Whatmore's quad rotor based Harrier inspired by the stuff John Stennard has been doing.  The guts and controller are from a cheap "drone" and the fuselage is 2mm Depron with an ink-jet printed skin.  The really sneaky thing about JW's design is the horizontal mounting plate for the rotors which means he can get the wing anhedral angle right and provide the longitudinal reinforcement the Depron needs.  To keep the weight down he's using a single LiPo which means endurance isn't great, but it's pretty convincing when it's aloft.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 22 August, 2021, 12:24:44 pm
An unnecessary space https://vimeo.com/590276957
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 22 August, 2021, 12:30:11 pm
Quote from: LittleWheelsandBig
An unnecessary space ...

The YACF site sw* embeds a viewer if you drop the un-spaced url in.  I have "embed" switched off on the clips cos I get really pissed off by embedded video in pages.  Simple enough to bolt the URL together.


*Or it may be Vimeo, but the only place I see this behaviour with Vimeo URLs is here.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 22 August, 2021, 06:39:50 pm
I prefer a single click to get to the right place but whatever floats your boat.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 22 August, 2021, 07:22:14 pm
Not my problem.  Take it up with the stupid bastard who thought it was a good idea to automatically convert a plain URL in a piece of text into an embedded video player.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 22 August, 2021, 07:35:58 pm
I’m not bothered enough to hassle the mods or to modify gapped URLs most of the time but I figured a quadcopter Harrier model was interesting enough.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Kim on 23 August, 2021, 02:23:00 pm
It's a bit off that the forum still embeds the video if you create a proper hyperlink with text:

Comme ça (https://vimeo.com/590276957)
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 04 September, 2021, 04:01:38 pm
Quote from: Kim
It's a bit off that the forum still embeds the video ....
Isn't it though? I'd also tried that in the past.

Peter's BE2c again.  Showing us rank amateurs how it should be done.   Same meet as my footage above, but a much better bit of film altogether from Jon M.

  https://photos.app.goo.gl/LtUzw4Dq6D8g9Vrg7 

If it's not obv. click the play button, top right.
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: Jaded on 07 September, 2021, 09:01:37 am
This appeared in my YouTube side bar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YSXmKaWG-M
Title: Re: Flights of Fancy
Post by: TheLurker on 10 September, 2021, 07:21:37 am
Quote from: Jaded
This appeared in my YouTube side bar   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YSXmKaWG-M
Interesting approach, but it seems a terribly unsatisfying way (to me) to build model aircraft.

I'm being lazy.
Slingsby Prefect wrap up.
More or less trimmed -  https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=438.msg277315#msg277315

Roll out snaps -  https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=25415.msg277385#msg277385