Author Topic: e-scooter trial (Read 93929 times)

nuttycyclist · « **Reply #325 on:** 28 June, 2021, 05:10:24 pm »

What's the difference between the geodock and having to replace a Boris Bike in an official location?

DuncanM · « **Reply #326 on:** 28 June, 2021, 05:23:57 pm »

Quote from: nuttycyclist on 28 June, 2021, 05:10:24 pm

What's the difference between the geodock and having to replace a Boris Bike in an official location?

Nothing other than the frequency/availability of docking locations as far as I can tell.

grams · « **Reply #327 on:** 28 June, 2021, 06:39:22 pm »

The Boris Bike system is ludicrously expensive to install and maintain - something like £2.50 per journey on top of what the users pay. That’s why it’s concentrated in one area and never significantly expanded.

The original promise of dockless was all you needed were bikes and someone to do basic maintenance and/or fish them out of the canal so could be deployed to large geographic areas with minimal upfront costs. Physical docks add a whole load of expense, make the system less convenient to use, and require planning rather than just sticking the bikes out there and seeing where users take them.

Ultimately you’ll end up with the Boris Bike problem of them only being deployed in dense enough areas to justify putting docks up.

Kim · « **Reply #328 on:** 28 June, 2021, 07:31:43 pm »

The Beryl Bike approach is more reasonable: Smart bikes with a dumb dock, which is literally just some metal bolted to the ground. Cheaper, quick to install, little to maintain, no need for groundworks to provide electricity to the Boris computer, etc.

A pure geodock is even cheaper, but there's nothing to stop the bikes/scooters/whatever falling over, and it's perhaps less obvious that it's there to people who aren't using the app. The RNIB's research suggests that geodocks are sufficient to prevent scooters/bikes being a trip hazard to visually impaired people, as they learn to expect them in that location.

nuttycyclist · « **Reply #329 on:** 28 June, 2021, 08:27:20 pm »

We have Beryl bikes near here, and they don't have docks. I've seen a number of green painted squares on the ground, as well as lots of bikes parked up willy nilly at random. Even the ones in the green square are often fallen over and blocking the pavement.

They seem popular as I often see people riding them, often on clearly leisure rides and not commuting or shopping.

DuncanM · « **Reply #330 on:** 29 June, 2021, 10:18:45 am »

Geodocks plus painted parking spaces seem like the cheapest worthwhile option. The only part it doesn't solve is the canal problem.

Kim · « **Reply #331 on:** 30 June, 2021, 02:39:43 pm »

That suggests their hire scooters can do 50kph, which seems way too fast for something with the braking geometry of a penny farthing.

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #332 on:** 30 June, 2021, 03:09:51 pm »

It suggests it but doesn't actually state it explicitly, so I'm suspicious that it's just a general statement about electric scooters worded to read as if it refers to the Paris hire scooters. Whether this is a deliberate or careless act of journalism I leave to the reader.

grams · « **Reply #333 on:** 30 June, 2021, 03:10:59 pm »

The rental ones are already limited to a frustrating 20 km/h in Paris and a useless 10 km/h in certain areas.

It's not clear whether the woman was killed by someone riding a private one or a rental one.

On preview: Yes, the BBC article is crap.

quixoticgeek · « **Reply #334 on:** 30 June, 2021, 04:35:41 pm »

Wait till they find out about cars...

J

Mr Larrington · « **Reply #335 on:** 30 June, 2021, 05:46:10 pm »

Parisians always used to ride mopeds, vélos-Solex etc on the pavements, so it doesn’t sound like much has changed.

ian · « **Reply #336 on:** 30 June, 2021, 07:40:19 pm »

It's one of those great sleights that they have us worrying about scooters far more than we do about cars.

ian · « **Reply #337 on:** 21 July, 2021, 02:07:57 pm »

I'm pleased to say that Surrey Police, having long since withdrawn from policing any other kind of vehicular crime (to be fair, I think there are only two officers for the entire county), has found a bit of time to take two e-scooters off the road.

DuncanM · « **Reply #338 on:** 21 July, 2021, 02:20:08 pm »

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/21/three-year-old-girl-left-with-life-changing-injuries-after-being-hit-by-e-scooter-in-london
Are these sorts of events going to remain rare enough that they are news, or become so commonplace they are treated like deaths/injuries cause by cars and mostly ignored by the press?

ian · « **Reply #339 on:** 21 July, 2021, 02:25:21 pm »

If only it was illegal to operate motor vehicles on the pavement, they'd have a field day.

Quisling · « **Reply #340 on:** 21 July, 2021, 02:48:42 pm »

Quote from: DuncanM on 21 July, 2021, 02:20:08 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/21/three-year-old-girl-left-with-life-changing-injuries-after-being-hit-by-e-scooter-in-london
Are these sorts of events going to remain rare enough that they are news, or become so commonplace they are treated like deaths/injuries cause by cars and mostly ignored by the press?

Neither this article, nor the one on the Beeb website mention if this was a legal scooter or not.
The death reported in Northampton of an elderly gent was ruled accidental at the inquest (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-57893642) and involved a person of limited mobility attempting to move a scooter. It could equally have been a dustbin or some other obstruction.

The 16 year old killed in London recently was hit by a drunk driver (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57874409) The article again is neutral on whether the scooter was part of the trial, but it is unlikely since you have to present driver's licence details before you can rent one so this looks like an illegally ridden scooter on the public highway.

The 54 year old killed in Brighton when he hit a fence in June appears to have been riding illegally as there are no scooter trials in Sussex. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-57681178 and https://www.brightonandhoveindependent.co.uk/news/people/if-you-are-riding-an-e-scooter-in-brighton-expect-to-be-spoken-to-by-police-3304590

The rider killed in Wolverhampton in June was riding his own scooter, so again - illegally https://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-hubs/wolverhampton/2021/06/20/fresh-appeal-for-information-after-fatal-e-scooter-crash/

There have been incidents involving hired scooters though https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/c2w7p1q416dt/electric-bikes-and-scooters .

To what extent are these deaths and injuries additional to baseline "all modes" travel statistics, and to what extent are these displacements - from cycling or more likely from other recreational activities like skateboarding?
At the moment these cases are being politicised by opponents as a reason to ban them. However, as with LTNs, if they cause a significant shift toward active travel then and the development of properly segregated sustainable travel routes then potentially overall deaths could reduce. Time will tell.

I'm sure this will remain a hot-potato for the press in the coming year or two, but then they'll possibly lose interest. After a couple of years of pandemic it's not like they're falling over themselves to report COVID deaths at (current) daily rate of 96, which annualised is 35040, or around 19 times as many as are killed on the roads each year.

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #341 on:** 21 July, 2021, 02:54:43 pm »

Deaths, injuries and frightened horses caused by motor cars were hot news over a hundred years ago, as were those caused by the new-fangled stage coaches a century or more before that.

ian · « **Reply #342 on:** 21 July, 2021, 03:02:40 pm »

A small number of injuries to pedestrians are attributed to skateboarders and roller skater/bladers (hard to find for the UK, but these pass mostly unremarked).

citoyen · « **Reply #343 on:** 21 July, 2021, 03:05:57 pm »

Quote from: DuncanM on 21 July, 2021, 02:20:08 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/21/three-year-old-girl-left-with-life-changing-injuries-after-being-hit-by-e-scooter-in-london
Are these sorts of events going to remain rare enough that they are news, or become so commonplace they are treated like deaths/injuries cause by cars and mostly ignored by the press?

I heard that story on the radio this morning and my immediate thought was that it's only newsworthy because it's a rare incident. But because it is newsworthy, it's going to generate a lot of heat - so expect the usual witch-hunt propagated by morons on Facebook who fear any new technology they don't understand.

I doubt that collisions resulting in life-changing injury will ever become very common for the simple reason that a single person on an electric scooter is never going to hit someone with the same force as a car, especially given the limited speeds they can achieve. OK, so you don't need to hit someone with a great deal of force in order to injure them seriously, as this story shows, but many car-related KSIs would be mitigated if the car and driver only weighed a combined total of <120kg and were travelling at <15mph.

That said, I'm all for greater regulation to ensure the dangers are kept in check.

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #344 on:** 21 July, 2021, 05:00:59 pm »

Some of the unregulated (private) e-scooters can easily achieve 30mph. But that's still half the top speed and a fraction the weight of the slowest and lightest car.

fd3 · « **Reply #345 on:** 21 July, 2021, 05:18:47 pm »

E-scooter are more likely to be ridden by the young, and we fucking hate them! Can't have a go at cars because old guys drive cars.

rogerzilla · « **Reply #346 on:** 21 July, 2021, 05:34:52 pm »

Quote from: Cudzoziemiec on 21 July, 2021, 05:00:59 pm

Some of the unregulated (private) e-scooters can easily achieve 30mph. But that's still half the top speed and a fraction the weight of the slowest and lightest car.

Haven't seen a car on the Bristol-Bath railway path. Yet.

ian · « **Reply #347 on:** 21 July, 2021, 05:39:50 pm »

I feel safer knowing the police are prioritizing illegal e-scootering, and in the process ignoring the many thousands of >3 tonne vehicles capable of speeds in excess of 100 mph that are regularly being driven on the pavements every single day.

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #348 on:** 21 July, 2021, 05:47:53 pm »

Quote from: rogerzilla on 21 July, 2021, 05:34:52 pm

Quote from: Cudzoziemiec on 21 July, 2021, 05:00:59 pm
Some of the unregulated (private) e-scooters can easily achieve 30mph. But that's still half the top speed and a fraction the weight of the slowest and lightest car.
Haven't seen a car on the Bristol-Bath railway path. Yet.

Only because of the bollards.

andrewc · « **Reply #349 on:** 27 July, 2021, 01:25:55 pm »

I've just received this email from the scooter rental people.

Parking your Voi e-scooter will change from August 2nd
Hi Liverpool Voiager!

At Voi, we believe the streets belong to everyone. And we want them safe and accessible for all.

That’s why, from August 2nd, you’ll only be able to park our e-scooters in a Mandatory Parking Zone (MPZ).

Right now, you’ve got over 800 Mandatory Parking Zones to choose from, right across the city! And many more are going up every week.

How Mandatory Parking Zones help Liverpool

Riders ending their rides in specific zones ensures that scooters are parked in proper places, which has huge benefits for you and the city:

More fixed places where you KNOW you can find a scooter, instead of them being scattered citywide

Roads, ramps, and entrances kept clear for other road users

Clutter-free pavements for pedestrians, young children, prams, wheelchairs, and the visually-impaired

Make the city a cleaner, safer, happier place to be.

So don’t be a bump in the road! Park smart.