Author Topic: The New Age of Shoddy  (Read 1737 times)

nicknack

  • Hornblower
Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #25 on: 13 July, 2021, 11:31:44 pm »
M&S mens underwear. It's worse every time I buy some.

Could you stop buying it, please?
Commando?
There's no vibrations, but wait.

Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #26 on: 13 July, 2021, 11:38:53 pm »
M&S mens underwear. It's worse every time I buy some.

Could you stop buying it, please?
Commando?
Nope. He is concerned that every time you buy it, the quality drops (because you bought it).

I never have had a flair for explaining humour, apologies.
Rust never sleeps

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #27 on: 13 July, 2021, 11:50:34 pm »
 :thumbsup:
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

nicknack

  • Hornblower
Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #28 on: 14 July, 2021, 12:08:43 am »
M&S mens underwear. It's worse every time I buy some.

Could you stop buying it, please?
Commando?
Nope. He is concerned that every time you buy it, the quality drops (because you bought it).

I never have had a flair for explaining humour, apologies.
Doh!
It's been a long utterly shit day.  ;D
There's no vibrations, but wait.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #29 on: 14 July, 2021, 12:25:21 am »
Another one with an 80s Karrimor here! Maybe we need a "show us your old rucksack" thread! Although mine does need repairing again.
One of my hiking club mates still uses a Rucksack he bought in 1980.
Cantbremember what is it but I probably have pictures

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FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #30 on: 14 July, 2021, 12:27:49 am »
M&S mens underwear. It's worse every time I buy some.
And their socks.  They seem to go into holes within 3 or 4 washes these days. I had hoped that the 15 or so pairs I have in stock would see me out.  But maybe not.

A few years ago I switched to Darn Tough socks. I have 6 pairs of various weights, and when ever they get a hole, i just post them back, and a new pair arrive in the post a few days later. Socks as a Service. It's saved me quite a bit in total cost of ownership for socks.

J
Ta, I was about to ask what the company you had previously recommended was as I put my foot through a sock the other day.

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T42

  • Old fool in a hurry
Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #31 on: 14 July, 2021, 07:53:24 am »
If you're buying budget brands like dhb and Topeak, it's hardly surprising - all their stuff is made to hit a price point. When costs go up, quality goes down.

The differences are probably a sign that they've switched to a cheaper supplier.

Topeak wasn't a budget brand when I bought my first one: the design was brilliant and the thing has lasted 14 years.  As regards DHB, I was using Specialized gloves until they brought out a design that rubbed my palms raw, and I tried a few other brands I didn't like before finding my first DHB gloves, which were brilliant.  How much do you want to spend on "reputable" gloves you can't wear?
But they never got to Carcassonne.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #32 on: 14 July, 2021, 08:59:43 am »
My Topeak Road Master Blaster pump, bought a couple of years ago, is excellent. In addition to having the most preposterous name of any cycling product ever!
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #33 on: 14 July, 2021, 09:03:01 am »
Some things are as good as ever - Carradice being a prime example.
Maybe so their original products that they still make in house, but to compete on price they outsourced the cheaper CarraDry range, which looks like imitation Ortlieb but nothing like as good. Not sure about the CarraDura range, but it's half the price of the Super C stuff, so wherever made it's been done to that price point.
Those products are also signed by the makers in squiggly biro, or certainly were when I bought my CarraDry bar bag; about 2015 or so.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

T42

  • Old fool in a hurry
Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #34 on: 14 July, 2021, 09:10:39 am »
My Topeak Road Master Blaster pump, bought a couple of years ago, is excellent. In addition to having the most preposterous name of any cycling product ever!

Metformin turns me into a master blaster every time I go for a ride.
But they never got to Carcassonne.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #35 on: 14 July, 2021, 09:34:10 am »
Topeak wasn't a budget brand when I bought my first one

Topeak has always been a cost-conscious brand. Which is not to say all their stuff is cheap but that it is made to a price point rather than a quality-first approach.

Many of their products are (or were) well designed, but they have never made their own stuff - it's always farmed out to external suppliers. This is what makes them different to traditional brands like Carradice, or what Karrimor used to be. Nothing has changed about the way Topeak is run, except that perhaps they're now having to cut more corners to keep prices in line with what consumers want to pay.

As for dhb, I wouldn't be surprised if the quality of their stuff improves now they've been taken over by the Germans.

Gloves are such a personal thing that paying more is no guarantee you'll get something that fits you well and is comfortable.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #36 on: 14 July, 2021, 09:41:34 am »
A minion in Condor Cycles said the same about the Carnac shoes I was looking to replace about 15 years ago.  Production moved to Romania, quality sank.  Fortunately he had a couple of NOS pairs in my size in the cupboard, so I bought them :thumbsup:
Carnac was bought up by Planet X.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #37 on: 14 July, 2021, 09:49:40 am »
A minion in Condor Cycles said the same about the Carnac shoes I was looking to replace about 15 years ago.  Production moved to Romania, quality sank.  Fortunately he had a couple of NOS pairs in my size in the cupboard, so I bought them :thumbsup:
Carnac was bought up by Planet X.

My "Holdsworth" is a cheapo Planet X effort. I had to confess as much recently to a road worker who was admiring it while I was stopped at the lights.

You can't trust any labels these days.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

T42

  • Old fool in a hurry
Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #38 on: 14 July, 2021, 09:53:56 am »
Topeak wasn't a budget brand when I bought my first one

Topeak has always been a cost-conscious brand. Which is not to say all their stuff is cheap but that it is made to a price point rather than a quality-first approach.

Many of their products are (or were) well designed, but they have never made their own stuff - it's always farmed out to external suppliers. This is what makes them different to traditional brands like Carradice, or what Karrimor used to be. Nothing has changed about the way Topeak is run, except that perhaps they're now having to cut more corners to keep prices in line with what consumers want to pay.

Never looked into Topeak's details that much, just liked the design.  Mind you, the stitching on a side pocket of the Topeak rack pack I bought at the same time as the HB bag burst when I shoved too much into it a couple of years later, but I blamed myself for that.

Quote
As for dhb, I wouldn't be surprised if the quality of their stuff improves now they've been taken over by the Germans.

Devoutly to be wished.

Quote
Gloves are such a personal thing that paying more is no guarantee you'll get something that fits you well and is comfortable.

Ain't that the truth. Find one you like and buy a dozen pairs. Then of course after a year you find that they've stretched or something.
But they never got to Carcassonne.

T42

  • Old fool in a hurry
Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #39 on: 14 July, 2021, 10:07:15 am »
A minion in Condor Cycles said the same about the Carnac shoes I was looking to replace about 15 years ago.  Production moved to Romania, quality sank.  Fortunately he had a couple of NOS pairs in my size in the cupboard, so I bought them :thumbsup:
Carnac was bought up by Planet X.

My first Carnacs lasted ~10 years, second pair around 5 with the help of Shoe Goo.
But they never got to Carcassonne.

Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #40 on: 14 July, 2021, 10:13:17 am »
Some things are as good as ever - Carradice being a prime example.
Maybe so their original products that they still make in house, but to compete on price they outsourced the cheaper CarraDry range, which looks like imitation Ortlieb but nothing like as good. Not sure about the CarraDura range, but it's half the price of the Super C stuff, so wherever made it's been done to that price point.
Those products are also signed by the makers in squiggly biro, or certainly were when I bought my CarraDry bar bag; about 2015 or so.
Maybe some final finishing takes place in their workshop, or maybe it's some QC, but the manufacturing is outsourced.  Of course they want to give the impression otherwise, it's that reputation they're trading on.
A quick look at their website will show that some products have a Made in Britain symbol on the product page and the ranges I've mentioned don't.

Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #41 on: 14 July, 2021, 11:05:02 am »
Sidi shoes are covered in Italian branding but most, if not all, are made in Romania now.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #42 on: 14 July, 2021, 01:41:18 pm »
Sidi shoes are covered in Italian branding but most, if not all, are made in Romania now.

Along with Assos kit, amongst other places. And their sizing went to to shit too.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #43 on: 14 July, 2021, 01:54:00 pm »
I've always thought of Topeak as more mid-market than budget. But maybe I'm just cheap.

Anyway, my Joe Blow Max was one of the very first items of cycling stuff I bought, way back in 2009. It's still going strong, and is just about the only thing I've not found an excuse to upgrade/replace over the years. I've had a Road Morph for nearly as long (though that doesn't get used as much, being used for visitations only) and that's also held up well.

Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #44 on: 14 July, 2021, 02:04:02 pm »
My ca. 1981 Bickerton has a rock hard plastic "Brooks" saddle. I'm not sure where that fits into this.

The plastic era is strangely missing from their company history.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #45 on: 14 July, 2021, 02:08:33 pm »


I've always thought of Topeak as more mid-market than budget. But maybe I'm just cheap.

I'd agree however theres a conflation here between point in the market and how to budget manufacturing.

Quality end products are often also produced to a price point.

Carradice for example could if they wanted increase their target cost to manufacture and price, just shove on solid gold rivets.
They're working to where they want to price their goods while still being good quality.

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T42

  • Old fool in a hurry
Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #46 on: 14 July, 2021, 02:33:09 pm »
There's a parallel with the tool market. Cheap knock-offs of Stanley planes drove Stanley to drop their quality to survive. Some brands simply sold out to the outfits that were driving them under, so that a famous name on a product is no longer any guarantee of quality.
But they never got to Carcassonne.

Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #47 on: 14 July, 2021, 02:50:24 pm »
The Chinese factories will make impeccable stuff if the client specifies it properly, pays them sufficiently, and monitors quality.  Miss one of the three, and shite comes out.  There may be a tendency for Chinese factories to cut corners and try to rip off the client, but UK factories will do that too, if not closely monitored.  In any supplier relationship, the client wants as much as possible for as little money as possible, and the factory wants the exact opposite.

Short version: if a company offshores and the quality goes south, it's their fault.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

T42

  • Old fool in a hurry
Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #48 on: 14 July, 2021, 03:14:37 pm »
Yes.  There's also the dodge where a Chinese factory makes more than the quantity demanded by its Western client and flogs the surplus off cheaply under a different name.  I've seen this particularly with photo paraphernalia but it's hardly limited to that.
But they never got to Carcassonne.

Re: The New Age of Shoddy
« Reply #49 on: 14 July, 2021, 08:50:31 pm »
My Chinese made circular saw is a nice bit of kit - Bosch brand. It’s Chinese made predecessor had quickly become trash -Macallister brand.

Sic transit and all that..