Author Topic: Little Eye On The Provinces  (Read 377485 times)

Kim

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Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1425 on: 03 March, 2017, 01:58:20 pm »
It's apparently illegal for an able-bodied person to use these things but partner still used my scooter to schlep 50kg building supplies half a mile home.

IIRC it's legal for a non-disabled person to use them for the purposes of maintenance or demonstration.  Hauling building supplies doesn't count, but like pavement cycling, as long as it's done responsibly most people don't care.

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1426 on: 03 March, 2017, 02:02:34 pm »
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1427 on: 03 March, 2017, 02:16:02 pm »
It's apparently illegal for an able-bodied person to use these things but partner still used my scooter to schlep 50kg building supplies half a mile home.

Some years ago, at the mag where I was working at the time, we hired a mobility scooter for a stunt. Several of my less mature colleagues couldn't resist the temptation to drive it round the office as fast as possible.

Which was fine, until one of them lost control on a corner and drove it into the glass panelled wall of a meeting room.

A meeting room in which the CEO was meeting several big cheeses from the US parent company.

Apparently, the bespoke glass panels cost £10,000 each to replace. And of course m'colleague wasn't listed as an insured driver of the mobility scooter.

I'm amazed he kept his job.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1428 on: 03 March, 2017, 02:49:38 pm »
How is a 25kph scooter any worse in traffic than a tricycle?  Sure, I'd try to pick a route that avoided the Derby ring-road, but many of us ride trikes in urban traffic and can attest that it isn't instant DETH (indeed, if anything, it's safer than a bicycle, as you're more likely to be seen).
Did I ever mention tricycles?  Nice straw man.

Even at 25kph a mobility scooter is going to be a sitting duck amidst regular traffic
No more so than cyclists, surely?
I'm not so sure.  Personally, I'd not much like to ride on the A601, but if I did I'd be riding fast (faster than 25kph) and not in the primary position (except where it is unsafe to pass).  Even with a scooter being driven as close to the nearside as possible, its offside still juts significantly into the lane.  25kph is simply too slow to be integrated into regular flowing traffic on an urban dual carriageway.

Kim

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Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1429 on: 03 March, 2017, 03:41:32 pm »
How is a 25kph scooter any worse in traffic than a tricycle?  Sure, I'd try to pick a route that avoided the Derby ring-road, but many of us ride trikes in urban traffic and can attest that it isn't instant DETH (indeed, if anything, it's safer than a bicycle, as you're more likely to be seen).
Did I ever mention tricycles?  Nice straw man.

No, I mentioned tricycles.  I'm not sure how it's a straw man (ie. what the effective difference is)?  I would be happy to ride a Class 3 mobility scooter in the sort of traffic that I ride a tricycle in, so I'm now wondering what it is about a tricycle that makes it okay, where a scooter wouldn't be.  It's not speed, because I sometimes struggle to achieve 8mph uphill.

Kim

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Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1430 on: 03 March, 2017, 03:49:36 pm »
25kph is simply too slow to be integrated into regular flowing traffic on an urban dual carriageway.

I cycle on urban roads at that sort of speed - and below - all the time (various bicycles, sometimes with a trailer, sometimes a recumbent trike).  IME the multi-lane dual carriageways[1] are somewhat better, because the motorists have another lane to perform a proper overtake in.  But as I said above, I'd try to avoid the Derby Ring Road.


[1] This sort of thing: https://goo.gl/maps/HNks6EaUzo72

Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1431 on: 03 March, 2017, 03:56:14 pm »
25kph is simply too slow to be integrated into regular flowing traffic on an urban dual carriageway.

Guess I'd better stop riding on the Parkway, although it can be hard to hit that speed when you're splitting lanes  :P  ;D

Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1432 on: 03 March, 2017, 04:46:40 pm »
25kph is simply too slow to be integrated into regular flowing traffic on an urban dual carriageway.

I cycle on urban roads at that sort of speed - and below - all the time (various bicycles, sometimes with a trailer, sometimes a recumbent trike).  IME the multi-lane dual carriageways[1] are somewhat better, because the motorists have another lane to perform a proper overtake in.  But as I said above, I'd try to avoid the Derby Ring Road.


[1] This sort of thing: https://goo.gl/maps/HNks6EaUzo72

I've noticed your judicious cropping of my post.  Perhaps I shouldn't have economised on words and emphasised that my particular point about speed integration follows on from the previous sentence about wide vehicles.  On most urban roads it is perfectly okay to ride a bike at lowish speed if your lane placement is appropriate.  Si S, I'm guessing you're not a tricyclist or trailer-puller from your point about splitting lanes!

I'm firmly of the view that the best way to further road safety for vulnerable users is not to unduly hamper other road users (check this link from another place).  Besides everything else, I would be bricking myself if I found myself plonked onto a busy A38 in Brum (or Princess Road) on a trike or a mobility scooter.  If you're not as chicken as me, then I can only wish you good luck.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1433 on: 03 March, 2017, 05:07:40 pm »
Sometimes a motorist only has to see a pedal-powered vehicle to imagine it's hampering their progress.

I don't know about straw men but there are a few red herrings in this discussion.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Kim

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Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1434 on: 03 March, 2017, 05:08:42 pm »
25kph is simply too slow to be integrated into regular flowing traffic on an urban dual carriageway.

I cycle on urban roads at that sort of speed - and below - all the time (various bicycles, sometimes with a trailer, sometimes a recumbent trike).  IME the multi-lane dual carriageways[1] are somewhat better, because the motorists have another lane to perform a proper overtake in.  But as I said above, I'd try to avoid the Derby Ring Road.


[1] This sort of thing: https://goo.gl/maps/HNks6EaUzo72

I've noticed your judicious cropping of my post.

I seem to be making a habit of it.   :-\


Quote
Perhaps I shouldn't have economised on words and emphasised that my particular point about speed integration follows on from the previous sentence about wide vehicles.  On most urban roads it is perfectly okay to ride a bike at lowish speed if your lane placement is appropriate.

I assume you don't have experience of wider cycles then?

What most people who do soon realise is that while the overall envelope isn't actually that much wider[1] than that of a typical flat-barred bicyclist, drivers react quite differently, and give greater amounts of room when overtaking.  Typically you get proper car-like overtakes, rather than attempts to squeeze past in the same lane.

(I suspect that much of this effect is down to being unusual and therefore subject to more careful observation, rather than the perceived difference in width.  It's also why I generally feel safer in traffic on a recumbent bicycle than I do on a Brompton.)


Quote
I'm firmly of the view that the best way to further road safety for vulnerable users is not to unduly hamper other road users (check this link from another place).

I'm more pragmatic than that.  Sometimes staying out of the way is the safest option, other times it isn't.  I'd certainly say that *antagonising* other road users is to be avoided, except where necessary to ensure your safety (for example, I'll take primary rather than ride into a pothole or be squeezed at a pinch point), and I'm a big fan of letting the entitled arseholes get past you as soon as possible.


Quote
Besides everything else, I would be bricking myself if I found myself plonked onto a busy A38 in Brum (or Princess Road) on a trike or a mobility scooter.  If you're not as chicken as me, then I can only wish you good luck.

From my own experience, riding a tricycle on the Bristol Road is pretty much the same as riding a bicycle with a trailer on the Bristol Road, which is pretty much the same as riding a bicycle without a trailer on the Bristol Road.  I don't have a mobility scooter, but assuming it was reasonably engineered and I was confident with the controls, I wouldn't expect it to be much different.


[1] Although a multi-track cycle will sometimes need more room than a bike to keep the nearside wheel clear of gutter hazards.

Kim

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Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1435 on: 03 March, 2017, 05:10:49 pm »
Sometimes a motorist only has to see a pedal-powered vehicle to imagine it's hampering their progress.

This is also true.  But I can't imagine they think much differently of a mobility scooter.  Or other 'slow' vehicles, for that matter - it's just that milk floats (proper ones, not the modern diesel rubbish), tractors, etc. command respect by nature of occupying the whole lane.

Wombat

  • Is it supposed to hurt this much?
Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1436 on: 03 March, 2017, 05:27:43 pm »
...and in the case of proper milk floats, you really, really don't want to collide with one.  Crumple zones?  Yes, that'll be you, not the milk float...  They are made of dirty great bits of steel channel, and a tonne or more of lead acid batteries, most unfriendly to interface with.  DAHIKT  :facepalm:
Wombat

Kim

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Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1437 on: 03 March, 2017, 05:42:21 pm »
Much the same goes for tractors, often with added spiky bits.

Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1438 on: 03 March, 2017, 07:34:02 pm »
i have have ridden in slough london york and wolverhampton on my trice and i often struggle to make 8mph on the flat  .traffic in the main has treated with care . i have also ridden on sections of the a3  a35 a5 a 23. where there is a great different s  in speed and again no real problems with traffic . fortunately 99.9 percent of the time i can use quit and pleasant lane although meeting lorreys and large cars on a narrow lane can be interesting  ::-) :)   
the slower you go the more you see

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1439 on: 04 March, 2017, 01:21:11 am »
...and back on topic, cat found in town.
It is simpler than it looks.

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1440 on: 04 March, 2017, 01:33:20 am »
In a tenuous claim to relevance kinda way, I were born in Greenock. Can't remember anything about is coz we left when I was 1.

Guy

  • Retired
Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1441 on: 09 March, 2017, 10:05:56 am »
Sign of the End Times appears in Finchley

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39214332
"The Opinion of 10,000 men is of no value if none of them know anything about the subject"  Marcus Aurelius

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1442 on: 09 March, 2017, 03:08:17 pm »
You beat me to it! I posted the same in 'Where the wild things are' cos Finchley might not be seen as 'Provinces'...

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1443 on: 09 March, 2017, 05:18:30 pm »
Lights go on and off in bank.
It is simpler than it looks.

Basil

  • Um....err......oh bugger!
  • Help me!
Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1444 on: 10 March, 2017, 12:25:49 am »
Admission.  I'm actually not that fussed about cake.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1445 on: 10 March, 2017, 12:29:52 am »

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1446 on: 10 March, 2017, 12:49:38 am »
To be fair, they are crackers.
It is simpler than it looks.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1447 on: 10 March, 2017, 06:32:20 pm »
Sign of the End Times appears in Finchley

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39214332
Lovely!

That is a classic example of subtle tongue-in-cheek reporting. I like this bit:

She said she arrived at the "dark car park" at about 21:30 GMT on Saturday

[my bold]
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1448 on: 10 March, 2017, 07:37:55 pm »
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
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Re: Little Eye On The Provinces
« Reply #1449 on: 10 March, 2017, 10:22:06 pm »
Someone had to . . .
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.