Southend Football

[Salvatore]

Outside the Football League you can make money from your stadium by having a plastic pitch which can accommodate concerts, fairs, sporting events etc. without affecting the playing surface. But when Harrogate were promoted to league 2 ("We’re not just about Betty's tea shop anymore")  they had to replace the artificial pitch at Wetherby Road with turf. It cost £200,000 to install the turf pitch, and home games for the first 10 weeks of their new exalted status were played at Doncaster,

[Jaded]

We had a high profile new stadium application a couple of years ago. Proposed by a well known darling of sustainability.

I opposed at the DCC meeting, saying that most football clubs were unable to relocate, and so being an exemplar of sustainability was best done in the existing stadium. Building a new stadium on green fields by a motorway junction wasn't that green, and most fans will arrive by car. I also said the communities are like jigsaw puzzles, made up of bits and pieces that together make a picture. If you start removing pieces, especially larger pieces, you lose the picture.

During the debate, when a Labour Cllr said words to the effect of "Let's be clear what we are talking about, this is an outline application" I knew the game was up.

Stadia aren't covered in Local Plans, I understand, so can be built pretty much anywhere.

[Peter]

Yes, it would be interesting (in an ESL sense) to know the percentage of plans that end up being   rejected after an initial outline planning acceptance.  I'd suspect very few.  It's a huge warning indicator, I think.

[Wowbagger]

I have a strong suspicion that the stadium will be dropped from the plans when SUFC goes to the wall.

https://fanbanter.co.uk/southend-chairman-ron-martin-stoops-to-new-low-swearing-at-fan-in-zoom-meeting/

In that video, Ron Martin declares how much he loves the club and calls a fan a "fucking idiot". Once he's got his development approved (and bear in mind that, as Jaded says, a lot of it is "outline") he will be in a position to build houses on both sites. It would be very convenient to him to kill the football club and just forget about the stadium.

Having said that, the club had planning permission years ago and it lapsed. I think that they have a loan lined up for this though. But I would have thought that £30m wouldn't be sufficient for thissort of project.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Outside the Football League you can make money from your stadium by having a plastic pitch which can accommodate concerts, fairs, sporting events etc. without affecting the playing surface. But when Harrogate were promoted to league 2 ("We’re not just about Betty's tea shop anymore")  they had to replace the artificial pitch at Wetherby Road with turf. It cost £200,000 to install the turf pitch, and home games for the first 10 weeks of their new exalted status were played at Doncaster,

Doesn't the Championship count as part of the League? Ashton Gate (Bristol City) is used for concerts etc, I don't know what the pitch is made of but do know they switch it round between football and rugby on a weekly basis – pretty sure it's some sort of astro turf.

[Hair_Today_Gone_Tomorrow]

.... pretty sure it's some sort of astro turf

There's a blast from the past term - rarely here that these days.

Language seems to have evolved into calling it a plastic pitch - even though I'm not sure it is made of plastic either

[Hair_Today_Gone_Tomorrow]

..... Once he's got his development approved (and bear in mind that, as Jaded says, a lot of it is "outline") he will be in a position to build houses on both sites. It would be very convenient to him to kill the football club and just forget about the stadium.
...

A very cynical thought 

[Cudzoziemiec]

Ha! And there I was wondering if it should be astro turf or astroturf. Pretty sure it's originally a brand name, so maybe Astroturf – or even AstroTurf. I've heard them referred to as 3G, 4G, etc (not sure how many generations they've got into).

[Hair_Today_Gone_Tomorrow]

Ha! And there I was wondering if it should be astro turf or astroturf. Pretty sure it's originally a brand name, so maybe Astroturf – or even AstroTurf. I've heard them referred to as 3G, 4G, etc (not sure how many generations they've got into).

The 5G one they inject into you on the orders of Bill Gates apparently

[DuncanM]

The current version of astro is 5G. The Championship definitely counts as part of the league, Ashton Gate has to have grass, but like most modern grass pitches, there's some elemnt of artificial stuff woven in to hold in tall together:

We have a new Desso pitch. So it’s real grass, but within it are vertically stitched artificial grass strands, punched deep into the soil, which intertwine with the real grass at the root zone and make it stronger. So imagine walking along a beach, and how the sand feels moving underfoot - well a Desso pitch stops that movement happening. It’s based on sand which is then packed down by the lawn mower making it even firmer. You don’t get chunks ripped out of it like you see after rugby scrums on TV.

https://visitbristol.co.uk/blog/read/2017/01/meet-ashton-gate-stadiums-head-of-grounds-b403

[Jaded]

Yes, it would be interesting (in an ESL sense) to know the percentage of plans that end up being   rejected after an initial outline planning acceptance.  I'd suspect very few.  It's a huge warning indicator, I think.

Outline is a backdoor way of getting permission you wouldn't have got if you had put a full applicationin…

[Wowbagger]

And - less than 24 hours after he's got the planning permission he was after...

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/19673108.blues-chairman-ron-martin-court-alleged-fraud/

Ronald Martin, 68, and former chief executive Geoffrey King, 75, are accused of failing to pay £4,485,000 in VAT over the sale of land in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire.

The pair are also accused of failing to pay £921,260 of VAT in relation to the sale of land in Thundersley, Essex, to the same firm, Redrow Homes PLC.

[Wowbagger]

..... Once he's got his development approved (and bear in mind that, as Jaded says, a lot of it is "outline") he will be in a position to build houses on both sites. It would be very convenient to him to kill the football club and just forget about the stadium.
...

A very cynical thought 

A view borne out of a long time watching Ron Martin and Southend Council.

[Hair_Today_Gone_Tomorrow]

Yes, it would be interesting (in an ESL sense) to know the percentage of plans that end up being   rejected after an initial outline planning acceptance.  I'd suspect very few.  It's a huge warning indicator, I think.

What has this to do with the Essex Senior League - Southend won't be playing in it for at least another 4 seasons on current form

[Hair_Today_Gone_Tomorrow]

..... Once he's got his development approved (and bear in mind that, as Jaded says, a lot of it is "outline") he will be in a position to build houses on both sites. It would be very convenient to him to kill the football club and just forget about the stadium.
...

A very cynical thought 

A view borne out of a long time watching Ron Martin and Southend Council.

Now you can follow him in Westminster Mags and the Crown Court....always so much to watch

[Peter]

Yes, it would be interesting (in an ESL sense) to know the percentage of plans that end up being   rejected after an initial outline planning acceptance.  I'd suspect very few.  It's a huge warning indicator, I think.

What has this to do with the Essex Senior League - Southend won't be playing in it for at least another 4 seasons on current form

It was a reference to Exit stage left, the late-lamented Damon Peacock, who always found everything.... interesting!  I expect you knew that, really.

[Peter]

Yes, it would be interesting (in an ESL sense) to know the percentage of plans that end up being   rejected after an initial outline planning acceptance.  I'd suspect very few.  It's a huge warning indicator, I think.

Outline is a backdoor way of getting permission you wouldn't have got if you had put a full applicationin…

Yes, I know.  It's how Rochdale has lost so much of its green belt land and looks like losing more in the very near future.

(Rochdale still coming up on Spellchecker - maybe it knows we're going to disappear into Larger Manchester sooner than the public knew?!)

[Hair_Today_Gone_Tomorrow]

Yes, it would be interesting (in an ESL sense) to know the percentage of plans that end up being   rejected after an initial outline planning acceptance.  I'd suspect very few.  It's a huge warning indicator, I think.

What has this to do with the Essex Senior League - Southend won't be playing in it for at least another 4 seasons on current form

It was a reference to Exit stage left, the late-lamented Damon Peacock, who always found everything.... interesting!  I expect you knew that, really.

Never heard of Damon Peacock and the only use of the acronym ESL I know of is Essex Senior League.

I am afraid I do not possess mind reading skills to have known what you or others meant by your use of  an obscure acronym

[Peter]

Ha!  I think a little research on this forum might indicate to you that ESL, as an acronym for Damon Peacock. audaxer, cycling video poster on here and you tube, would ring a bell with hundreds of people on YACF, whereas I suspect you (and possibly Bobb) might be the only people on here (and possibly the only people outside Essex) who have even heard of the Essex Senior League.  However, as I see you joined YACF at around the time Damon's illness caused him to stop posting here (he WAS ESL), this is perfectly understandable.  Damon died earlier this year and there was quite a lot of traffic on here about him and his funeral.  But as none of that was under his own forum name, you will have missed it.  Happy to help.

Peter

[Hair_Today_Gone_Tomorrow]

Ha!  I think a little research on this forum might indicate to you that ESL, as an acronym for Damon Peacock. audaxer, cycling video poster on here and you tube, would ring a bell with hundreds of people on YACF, whereas I suspect you (and possibly Bobb) might be the only people on here (and possibly the only people outside Essex) who have even heard of the Essex Senior League.  However, as I see you joined YACF at around the time Damon's illness caused him to stop posting here (he WAS ESL), this is perfectly understandable.  Damon died earlier this year and there was quite a lot of traffic on here about him and his funeral.  But as none of that was under his own forum name, you will have missed it.  Happy to help.

Peter

so from a reference to ESL, I was supposed to know that refers to some random acronym attached to some obscure bloke on a different forum?

Like I said, my mind reading skills are obviously not up to scratch.

Oh and this is a thread about a football club in Essex, which is where strangely the Essex Senior League - a football league is based

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Sure, a different sub-forum (not forum) and a different person not previously referenced in this discussion. That reference was not actually intended for you and the reference was explained when the confusion became evident.

Any group that has been around for a while will have a history and some in-group references. YACF is no different. None of this is criticising you. Peter just forgot that not everybody understands every semi-obscure reference. No big deal.

[DuncanM]

The footballing press seem to be reporting that the planning permission is good news for Southend fans, even while they are pointing out the legal problems Ron Martin has going on.
Are they just being willfully blind, or would there be some justification (making the enormously charitable assumption that Martin is going to go through with the plan and not just build the houses and fold the club)?

[Peter]

Sure, a different sub-forum (not forum) and a different person not previously referenced in this discussion. That reference was not actually intended for you and the reference was explained when the confusion became evident.

Any group that has been around for a while will have a history and some in-group references. YACF is no different. None of this is criticising you. Peter just forgot that not everybody understands every semi-obscure reference. No big deal.

Thank you, D!  And, furthermore, in a personal reference which will not be understood by all, try and stay upright!

Peter

[Peter]

Ha!  I think a little research on this forum might indicate to you that ESL, as an acronym for Damon Peacock. audaxer, cycling video poster on here and you tube, would ring a bell with hundreds of people on YACF, whereas I suspect you (and possibly Bobb) might be the only people on here (and possibly the only people outside Essex) who have even heard of the Essex Senior League.  However, as I see you joined YACF at around the time Damon's illness caused him to stop posting here (he WAS ESL), this is perfectly understandable.  Damon died earlier this year and there was quite a lot of traffic on here about him and his funeral.  But as none of that was under his own forum name, you will have missed it.  Happy to help.

Peter

so from a reference to ESL, I was supposed to know that refers to some random acronym attached to some obscure bloke on a different forum?

Like I said, my mind reading skills are obviously not up to scratch.

Oh and this is a thread about a football club in Essex, which is where strangely the Essex Senior League - a football league is based

Ref: the bold stuff - no, a far from random bloke, known as ESL all over THIS forum to many people, as I think you will see I said.  But as LWaB said, no big deal!  (PS  This thread is not about a football club, it's about Southend FC - not the same thing at all!)

[Jaded]

^