Poll

Which describes you best?

A cynic who was won over by the general wonder of it all!
A cynic who enjoyed some bits, but still hate VISA, McDs etc etc ...
A cynic; if you did watch any bits, it was rubbish!
Not a cynic, but wanted to vote anyway

Author Topic: For the Cynics: were you won over?  (Read 10674 times)

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #75 on: 14 August, 2012, 11:21:37 am »
The funding processes put in place by UKSport are predicated on development, not only of podium programmes but of coaches and clubs/facilities and the whole development stream. Maybe there needs to be a pot of money put aside to encourage local clubs to partner with schools to deliver sport, where budding athletes can be supported through delivery of sport to the community. Very nice clip of Ian Thorpe teaching kids at Tooting Bec lido to swim -we then not only get our top athletes, but there is a mechanism to support the not so good and get payback for the investment into the community.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #76 on: 14 August, 2012, 11:39:21 am »
Elite sport has its place, but I think that we should prefer government spending our money on encouraging mass participation rather than places like the AIS.  Obviously the two are linked, but I think the bottom line should always be on the health of society - and that is best looked after if people are encouraged to be healthy.  This may sometimes include spending less money on the chance of a gold medal and more on play grounds.  Occasionally it is appropriate to have a big party, but the real job of keeping people healthy is much more boring.

Completely agree. Cameron's nonsense about making competitive sport compulsory shows that he really hasn't got a fucking clue. Also that crap about Indian dancing sounds more like a Daily Mail scare headline than a story with any basis in truth.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #77 on: 14 August, 2012, 11:41:47 am »
You can't move in Toytown at the moment without bumping into a gang of jogging women carrying bottles of water. The Games has definitely inspired people round here anyway. Nothing is perfect.

I'm glad they've been inspired and I really hope it lasts but it's way, way too early to make any meaningful assessment of the "legacy" of the games.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Tigerrr

  • That England that was wont to conquer others Hath made a shameful conquest of itself.
  • Not really a Tiger.
    • Humanist Celebrant.
Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #78 on: 14 August, 2012, 12:03:41 pm »
That would be inspiring and I regret not being retired or in teaching so I could have done it.
My dear chap, please don't let your bitterness spoil these great events for you. They are for everyone, not just the elite groups you mention!

Quote
Perhaps most notably so in the cycling given this is not a nation of keen cyclists at all, just an elite medal winning system.
We played a significant part in inventing/developing the bloody thing.

I have to admit my innate cycnicism was swept away after the first 'GOOOOOOOOOOLD' for team GB - and I think I permanently damaged my vocal chords in the velodrome screaming for Trott and co. I loved the gamesmakers and it was unquestionably one of the best things I have ever seen in my life.  I loved the jingoism, and I can shout the Anthem as well as anyone, and scorn the furriners to boot.  So you can belay the bitterness stuff Mattey. The fact that I can get as swept up by the attractions of superbly managed propaganda doesnt mean its not just that.
That doesn't detract from the obvious fact that in the velodrome there was a team GB camp twice the size of anyone elses, with better coaching, kit etc - its an elite bubble, and it was a political decision to invest here rather than in e.g. Archery where we flopped.
Humanists UK Funeral and Wedding Celebrant. Trying for godless goodness.
http://humanist.org.uk/michaellaird

LindaG

Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #79 on: 14 August, 2012, 12:07:00 pm »
You can't move in Toytown at the moment without bumping into a gang of jogging women carrying bottles of water. The Games has definitely inspired people round here anyway. Nothing is perfect.

I'm glad they've been inspired and I really hope it lasts but it's way, way too early to make any meaningful assessment of the "legacy" of the games.

d.

Every little helps.

red marley

Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #80 on: 14 August, 2012, 12:22:14 pm »
I've seen the term 'jingoism' thrown about quite liberally in various discussions of support for GB during the olympics.

One of the things that 'won me over' was a sense in which the union flag could be used as part of a celebration that was anything but jingoistic. Almost all my life that flag has been associated with something I've wanted to distance myself from, be it far right politics, royal weddings, military and cultural imperialism or hypocritical prime ministers at Remembrance Day services.

During the Olympics, and hopefully beyond, I've seen it used much as I saw national strips being used during PBP or LEL, as a way of celebrating a global event without any of the sense of aggressive jingoism that implies "we're better than you simply for who we are". I see it as a small contribution to repossessing the image, just as others like Billy Brag or Show of Hands have tried to do.

It is a pity that the nonsense at beginning of the closing ceremony with Spall's Churchill spouting Shakespeare from atop Big Ben did its bit to undo that good work.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #81 on: 14 August, 2012, 12:25:41 pm »
The only time I saw anything unlike what jo says was at Cardiff for the football. There were fans there who were, as far as I could see, the only ones in all the sports that had forgotten that they were at the Olympics and not at some scummy football match. Swearing, booing the opposing team captain for something he did in the Premiership in October last year, swearing, shouting for Premiership teams, swearing, and of course, swearing. Wankers.
It is simpler than it looks.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #82 on: 14 August, 2012, 12:51:55 pm »
I was happy to wave my flag (metaphorically speaking) and cheered for the Brits most of the time, in the events where there were Brits to cheer for, but one of the things I really liked about the atmosphere of the games was the level of appreciation shown by the partisan home crowd to all competitors, no matter where they were from - witness the love for Rudisha and Bolt in particular. And moments like the huge roar the Turkish woman got when she limped over the line in the 800m over a minute behind the winners were just brilliant.

In the events where Brits weren't so well represented, I was happy to cheer on competitors from other nations. I really got into the archery, for example, and when the Brits went out in the early stages, I switched my allegiance to some of the foreign competitors who'd caught my eye.

I hardly watched any of the football, but it doesn't surprise me that the football fans let the side down. Ho hum.

Anyway, as I've said before, I loved the sport part of it, it's just the organisation that makes me feel uncomfortable about the Olympics. Though to be fair, the IOC probably aren't really any more corrupt than many other international sporting authorities I could think of - eg Fifa, UCI, FIA... And of course many of them are in cahoots with the IOC. It makes me wonder if it's possible to have big sporting events without institutional corruption.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

fuzzy

Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #83 on: 14 August, 2012, 01:07:49 pm »
Anyway, as I've said before, I loved the sport part of it, it's just the organisation that makes me feel uncomfortable about the Olympics. Though to be fair, the IOC probably aren't really any more corrupt than many other international sporting authorities I could think of - eg Fifa, UCI, FIA... And of course many of them are in cahoots with the IOC. It makes me wonder if it's possible to have big sporting events without institutional corruption.

d.

Allocation of an event and the running of the events involves orgainisations that include people. People are corruptable. As people are corruptable, corrupt people within the organisations seek out like minded people in the other organisations and corruption occurs. It is a fact of life that we unfotunatley have to live with. All we can do is seek to expose those who are corrupt and demand they be dealt with accordingly.

I should imagine that, if you were to examine most facets of our life, a degree of corruption exists. I know people have sought to corrupt me. Have they been succesful? I honestly couldn't say that I was 100% certain they hadn't.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #84 on: 14 August, 2012, 01:21:36 pm »
Wise words, fuzzy.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #85 on: 14 August, 2012, 01:29:39 pm »
Oh, I should add that I am very proud and pleased that I was able to do a little bit with some great people to bring these games to the world, to showcase my home town and the streets I grew up in, and to say I was there and part of that.

That's nice for you. Nice if you can afford to give up your time for free while someone else profits from your labour. Nice that you don't feel exploited. I'd like to have been able to take part but I couldn't afford to.

Well, I chose to do it. I could have chosen not to. It was a lot of fun and I feel that I got out of it more than it cost me. Every week people profit from my labour, whether it be taking pictures of Audax riders, helping organise events, doing other stuff.. Do I feel exploited for that? In this case who profited? The million or so people who enjoyed watching the events live, the many tens or hundreds of millions watching on TV, the small handful (a few dozen) with whom I interacted and was able to bring some smiles and happiness to their lives? Some corporate fat cat (not the major sponsors, it would be the companies responsible for delivery)? The apprentices who got the opportunity to build some iconic venues?



There are plenty of other things I could have done instead but couldn't afford to

David, I would like to thank you for the efforts that you and your 70,000 colleagues put in so that we could all enjoy the games. I understand Citoyen's concerns about pay for labour, but I think he misses the point of voluntary service being for the recipients of that service, not for the benefit of those who might save money through the efforts of volunteers. If those efforts are seen only as one side of a financial equation, all charity is lost along with the community benefits that voluntary service brings.

As for the sport itself, there will always be those who cannot understand the thrill of competition or who are against competitive behaviour in principle. Fortunately (from my PoV), they are a small minority, and they will never kill the spirit that games like these Olympics carry with them and the uplift they give all of us who enjoyed them. That uplift isn't represented by the jingoistic statement that 'my group is better than your group', but simply in the joy of achievements which are enhanced - and brought about - by being within a competitive environment. Competition inspires people to incredible heights of effort and achievement, and is itself a wonderful thing to watch (it's probably even better to participate in, but I have to take that on trust!).

Tigerrr

  • That England that was wont to conquer others Hath made a shameful conquest of itself.
  • Not really a Tiger.
    • Humanist Celebrant.
Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #86 on: 14 August, 2012, 01:34:52 pm »
I've seen the term 'jingoism' thrown about quite liberally in various discussions of support for GB during the olympics.

One of the things that 'won me over' was a sense in which the union flag could be used as part of a celebration that was anything but jingoistic. Almost all my life that flag has been associated with something I've wanted to distance myself from, be it far right politics, royal weddings, military and cultural imperialism or hypocritical prime ministers at Remembrance Day services.

During the Olympics, and hopefully beyond, I've seen it used much as I saw national strips being used during PBP or LEL, as a way of celebrating a global event without any of the sense of aggressive jingoism that implies "we're better than you simply for who we are". I see it as a small contribution to repossessing the image, just as others like Billy Brag or Show of Hands have tried to do.

It is a pity that the nonsense at beginning of the closing ceremony with Spall's Churchill spouting Shakespeare from atop Big Ben did its bit to undo that good work.

I was at a different event in the velodrome. A bit of polite applause for the foreigners was instantly drowned out by the roar of approval if a brit did so much as sit on a bike, and I could see it irked the other sides. I really enjoyed it through as it was very good natured. The Americans in front of us simply left as soon as their girl had ridden.  Lots of the foreigners were heading out by the time the gold was awarded - which was a shame as I had really wanted to sing it loud for their benefit.
Humanists UK Funeral and Wedding Celebrant. Trying for godless goodness.
http://humanist.org.uk/michaellaird

JT

  • Howay the lads!
    • CTC Peterborough
Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #87 on: 14 August, 2012, 02:10:21 pm »
I've seen the term 'jingoism' thrown about quite liberally in various discussions of support for GB during the olympics.

One of the things that 'won me over' was a sense in which the union flag could be used as part of a celebration that was anything but jingoistic. Almost all my life that flag has been associated with something I've wanted to distance myself from, be it far right politics, royal weddings, military and cultural imperialism or hypocritical prime ministers at Remembrance Day services.

During the Olympics, and hopefully beyond, I've seen it used much as I saw national strips being used during PBP or LEL, as a way of celebrating a global event without any of the sense of aggressive jingoism that implies "we're better than you simply for who we are". I see it as a small contribution to repossessing the image, just as others like Billy Brag or Show of Hands have tried to do.

It is a pity that the nonsense at beginning of the closing ceremony with Spall's Churchill spouting Shakespeare from atop Big Ben did its bit to undo that good work.

I was at a different event in the velodrome. A bit of polite applause for the foreigners was instantly drowned out by the roar of approval if a brit did so much as sit on a bike, and I could see it irked the other sides. I really enjoyed it through as it was very good natured. The Americans in front of us simply left as soon as their girl had ridden.  Lots of the foreigners were heading out by the time the gold was awarded - which was a shame as I had really wanted to sing it loud for their benefit.

That's because most of the people there weren't cycling fans. I've been to three World Championships and even at Manchester where GB won almost everything, the knowledgable crowds are always generous in their applause of anyone who rode well.  France's great Kilo rider Arnaud Tournant even had his retirement race in Manchester - because he would have got more love than if he'd done in Bordeaux.

At a Worlds they don't have to play a "shush" sound before the timing beeps because everyone is already aware of what's going on.
a great mind thinks alike

red marley

Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #88 on: 14 August, 2012, 02:12:06 pm »
None of the events I saw live had any strong GB gold favourites, so perhaps that has influenced my impression.

During the women's weightlifting (group As, not the group Bs that included Zoe Smith), they spent 10 minutes at the start naming all the judges, jury and people who change the weights on the bar, including their nationality. After each name, there was a polite round of applause as you might expect. When one of the judges was announced as from GB, there was a huge cheer. Followed by a sort of half-embarassed mass ironic chuckle.

During the event, the largest cheers went to those who were on their third lift following two fails, regardless of nationality.

At the end of the event, after the inevitable gold from the Chinese competitor, there were various queues of (non-Chinese looking) people taking photos of themselves draped under a Chinese flag.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #89 on: 14 August, 2012, 02:18:45 pm »
[It's been touch-n-go, but the 'Approval' options - 1 and 4 - currently have a tiny majority at 51%. How exciting!

I'm surprised 3 didn't get more votes... ]
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

gordon taylor

Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #90 on: 14 August, 2012, 06:10:57 pm »
I've been an insufferable evangelical non-cynic throughout the whole thing.
I thought the London 2012 Olympics were brilliant - and much better than I could ever have hoped for.

The "corporate" issue in the poll intrigues me; IMHO it was an internet/blogging issue only. If you experienced the Olympics via the BBC, there was no exposure to any sponsorship whatsoever. If you went to the venues, there was a vast range of non-McD food and drink available and your only exposure to the other sponsors were a few tiny logos on tickets. There were no banners, no advertising, no sponsors names on prizes - completely unlike any other sporting event I've ever experienced.

The cynics too, seem to populate the internet. Everywhere else: pubs, workplaces, trains, streets, living rooms, and especially the venues seem to be packed with excited, loud and buzzing Brits.

I'm proud to have been involved in the Olympics, proud of the organisers, proud of Lord Coe, proud of London and proud of Britain.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #91 on: 14 August, 2012, 07:47:55 pm »
That's a great summary, Gordy.

Hell, you couldnt even buy a MacDonalds at most of the venues.
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #92 on: 14 August, 2012, 08:14:12 pm »
Nice one, Gordy  :thumbsup:

Glad to hear you enjoyed it as much as you clearly did.

Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #93 on: 14 August, 2012, 09:30:06 pm »
Some good posts on this. I know someone who was a volunteer and got the indoor events (gym stuff) so I'll see what she says. But she had to take time off her holidays,pay for her accomodation, take time off to collect her uniform (go to London from Mcr to do that) etc. I appreciate the volunteering bit but paying for the accom. seems wrong. Lord Coe gets a nice boost out of it, the military have earned plaudits for their efforts (and so they should) but all those volunteers made it happen - perhaps G4S should donate their managemnt fee to them and the military, not the paltry 2 million they are talking about.

Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #94 on: 14 August, 2012, 09:57:20 pm »
I don't see why the volunteers get such a big pat on the back. They only did it because they wanted to. I've heard people complain they were over officious (they certainly were when I was at Sydney in 2000) but then you'd expect people who like telling people what to do to sign up for that!
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

red marley

Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #95 on: 14 August, 2012, 10:00:26 pm »
They get such a big pat on the back from me because without exception, every one who I encountered was patient, friendly and helpful. They seemed to echo and amplify the feeling of goodwill and excitement that has been hanging around London in the last couple of weeks.

Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #96 on: 14 August, 2012, 10:15:20 pm »
It seemed to paly well in France, they liked the musical interludes in the pool as an 'animation'. They were a bit confused as to why 'Les Anglais' weren't a team, and reckoned that they got more medals then 'Les Anglais'.
I didn't see much of the event beyond the Time Trial, as I don't like sport in general, and I was too busy cycling. The whole event seemed to have generated considerable prestige abroad. Whether that 'feelgood factor' translates into anything positive remains to be seen.

Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #97 on: 14 August, 2012, 10:17:20 pm »
[It's been touch-n-go, but the 'Approval' options - 1 and 4 - currently have a tiny majority at 51%. How exciting!

I'm surprised 3 didn't get more votes... ]

I haven't voted. I'm not surprised 3 didn't get more votes - the sport wasn't rubbish if you like that sort of thing. If you don't like that sort of thing (and as you may have gathered, I don't), why would you watch it, since you know that sport is rubbish anyway?
There isn't an option for 'Didn't watch, don't care'.
Quote from: Kim
^ This woman knows what she's talking about.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #98 on: 15 August, 2012, 09:05:02 am »
I don't see why the volunteers get such a big pat on the back. They only did it because they wanted to. I've heard people complain they were over officious (they certainly were when I was at Sydney in 2000) but then you'd expect people who like telling people what to do to sign up for that!

From my experience, those who complain about the volunteers being over officious are those who cannot see teh big picture of the event or understand even that there is a big picture beyond their own little world. The same people who can't see why just stopping there with their hazards on because they are 'only 5 miniutes whilst they get a paper' is a problem.

We had a ball. Best holiday ever (I had planned it as such).
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: For the Cynics: were you won over?
« Reply #99 on: 15 August, 2012, 09:15:33 am »
At least we can laugh Bob at the volunteers who go unpaid whilst $BigCo fill their boots.   Some Big Picture, eh?