Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: Cudzoziemiec on 19 February, 2012, 04:36:40 pm
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I've been trying to remove my old pedals (with toeclips) in order to fit a pair of SPD pedals and it's proving nigh on impossible. Right-hand pedal, no problem. Left, huge problem. First I tried with a decent (Park) pedal spanner. No joy, just rounded off the corners of the pedal axle a little. So I tried soaking it in WD40 for a while, having sprayed it from both sides of the crank, and then using mole grips. All I've done is increase the rounding off and started to wear down the teeth on my mole grips.
All I can think of now is to try drilling out the pedal axle from the inner side of the crank, but I don't really know how to do this (even if I can get hold of a suitable drill!). Any other ideas?
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Blowtorch.
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OK, silly question, but you are turning it the correct way?
You say you soaked it in WD40, but for how long?
I doubt you'd succeed in drilling it out, it'll be very hard. You may be able to do it with a bench drill, but I'd guess the chances of doing it with a hand drill are very low.
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1. Don't forget that it's a left-hand thread: pedal undoes ckockwise.
2. Stop using mole grips or anything like that.
3. Get a spanner that fits properly, buying a new one if necessary, and extend the handle with a long tube if you can.
Save the blowtorch as a last resort.
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Yes, I do remember that it's a left-hand thread!
I have a decent pedal spanner, as mentioned. I guess some kind of extension is probably the way to go, but I can't think of anything that would do the job right now. I left an hour between spraying the WD40 and trying the mole grips, and had previously sprayed WD40 on it yesterday as well.
The pedals have been on there since new - that's 13 years - and I suspect they might not have been carefully fitted in the shop.
Blowtorch... hmm... That does sound drastic.
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Blowtorch.
It would work, we have always used a hot air gun instead though. Heat untill you see some oil seep from the thread.
The ally will expand quickest and there off :smug:
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Many years ago I owned a old Matchless motorcycle in which the chainlength screw adjusters had rusted solid in the frame. I soaked the threads as much as I could with thin penetrating oil, but after 3 days effort gave up as the screws remained stubbornly stuck. A couple of weeks later I just happened to try again and to my amazement, the screws spun out easily. So, if you are not in a hurry, a long soak, revisiting stuck parts 2X day with eg WD40. may work. And of course you do know that LH pedals have LH thread and RH pedals have RH thread. [The converse of English BBs if that is your other job. (It BBs are RH thread on both sides just to confuse the issue!)]. Best of luck!
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Once it gets to applying very large torques on pedals, it becomes difficult to get the crank to stay put.
You need to position the crank in such a way it won't spin, in some positions you will end up free-wheeling the cassette.
So to remove the LH pedal ( clockwise ), I try to arrange the crank somewhere between 7-o'clock and 10'o'clock.
Use a full-size 15mm spanner ( as fat as you can fit in there. ), not an adjustable or anything like mole grips, as mentioned.
Have the spanner pointing towards the rear of the bike.
You will be constrained by the position of the flats on the pedal axle.
The spanner will have an angled end, this will give you some geometry options.
Now, you can stand on it with care, and the crank won't turn.
A bit of bouncing with care can be applied too.
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Hot air gun - when I was pottering with pottery, we had a hot air gun for drying slip and stuff. That, I think, might have done the job, but I'm not sure where I'd get one now! I can't see a hair dryer quite being up to the job!
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Or if you have a suitable big vice or other holding method, it may be best to take the crank and pedal off the bike first and the get to work on the pedal.
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When I had the same problem, I ended up taking the cranks (with pedals attached) to an LBS, having tried Plusgas and a pedal spanner at various points over a period of weeks. They got them off in seconds...
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Blowtorch.
Yep.
H
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Once it gets to applying very large torques on pedals, it becomes difficult to get the crank to stay put.
You need to position the crank in such a way it won't spin, in some positions you will end up free-wheeling the cassette.
So to remove the LH pedal ( clockwise ), I try to arrange the crank somewhere between 7-o'clock and 10'o'clock.
Use a full-size 15mm spanner ( as fat as you can fit in there. ), not an adjustable or anything like mole grips, as mentioned.
Have the spanner pointing towards the rear of the bike.
You will be constrained by the position of the flats on the pedal axle.
The spanner will have an angled end, this will give you some geometry options.
Now, you can stand on it with care, and the crank won't turn.
A bit of bouncing with care can be applied too.
So stand on the spanner, if I understand correctly? That's about the opposite of what I've been doing - using my foot to hold the pedal steady. Trouble is, I think the axle's now so rounded off that the spanner will just slip. :(
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Quite often there is an alan key socket inside the pedal axle which can be accessed from the inside of the crank. Any help????
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I have a decent pedal spanner, as mentioned.
I meant buy another spanner if your decent spanner isn't in decent condition any more and has rounded off.
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Now, you can stand on it with care, and the crank won't turn.
A bit of bouncing with care can be applied too.
So stand on the spanner, if I understand correctly? That's about the opposite of what I've been doing - using my foot to hold the pedal steady. Trouble is, I think the axle's now so rounded off that the spanner will just slip. :(
Yes, that's absolutely what I mean.
If you set up the geometry of what you're trying to do as I described, the crank won't move, and you can stand on the spanner.
I'll see if I can manage a photo...
Here's how to set it up:
(http://www.lowe-family.me.uk/photos/P1000581_small.JPG)
And here's me horsing on it:
(http://www.lowe-family.me.uk/photos/P1000582_small.JPG)
Notice how the geometry is such than my foot is pushing directly towards the bottom bracket, so I'm producing almost no turning moment on the crank, but lots on the pedal axle. I'm aiming to have the end of the spanner almost directly above the BB, but slightly forward, so the residual moment on the crank is trying to turn the crank forward, which I hold against the brakes. Avoid having the end of the spanner to the rear of the BB, because the residual torque is in the free-wheel direction, and can result in a shin-whacking incident.
This is really easy to do, and you can generate a large amount of well-controlled torque.
Not much use if you've already rounded it, tho.
Oh, and regarding the Allen key hole in the back of some pedal axles: You'll bend an Allen key long before you shift a stubborn pedal.
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Quite often there is an alan key socket inside the pedal axle which can be accessed from the inside of the crank. Any help????
If only.
I have a decent pedal spanner, as mentioned.
I meant buy another spanner if your decent spanner isn't in decent condition any more and has rounded off.
The spanner's ok, it's the axle itself that has rounded off.
I think I'll have one last go with the WD 40 and standing on the pedal method tomorrow or in a couple of days and if that fails I'll think about where I can get hold of a hot air gun or blowtorch. And if that fails I'll have to take the crank off and take it in to LBS who will doubtless charge me more than I saved by not buying from them in the first place - bloody internet shopping!!!
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Ditch the WD40 and use Plus Gas.
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Having done all your soaking in Plus Gas - remove crank - strip pedal - grip pedal axle in vice - apply large lever (short length of scaffold pole?) or a girt big hammer to shock it loose.
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I've had an idea - there is a bike recycling project down the road where every Thursday evening you can go and use their workshop for the princely sum of £4. I don't know if they have a blowtorch but I'm sure they have a vice - I don't even have anywhere to fix one. So crank off and down there on Thurs. Now, the crank did come off easily last time I tried and that was only last August, so I'm hopeful on this one.
Thanks for all the advice.
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Less than a blowtorch, more than a hair dryer - can I suggest a paint stripper gun? Worth a go.
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No paint stripper gun, but I have access to a blowtorch booked for Thursday.
Feanor, thanks for the photos - I'll remember them for the next time.
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Is there any reason why you can't just sacrifice the crank and stick a new one on?
Alternatively could you substitute the pedal spanner in Feanor's pic with a large set of mole grips done up bastard-tight on the pedal axle?
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Hot air gun - when I was pottering with pottery, we had a hot air gun for drying slip and stuff. That, I think, might have done the job, but I'm not sure where I'd get one now! I can't see a hair dryer quite being up to the job!
I have got one at home if you want you can come round and have a go as it is a bit less drastic than the blow torch. It's technically not mine so i can't really lend it.
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kitchencraft-Colourworks-coloured-blowtorch/dp/B003N84XG8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1329755593&sr=8-3
make sure the colour matches your frame :thumbsup:
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Is there any reason why you can't just sacrifice the crank and stick a new one on?
Three reasons: I dislike waste and scrapping decent parts, I'm semi-skint*, and I'm trying to pay the bills! Oh, and a fourth one - I don't want to have more delay buying a new crank. At least I know I can fit it though! And can you actually buy just a l/h crank?
Alternatively could you substitute the pedal spanner in Feanor's pic with a large set of mole grips done up bastard-tight on the pedal axle?
Wouldn't work - the axle (which is six-sided rather than having flats) is already too rounded off. And there's only room between crank and pedal for a medium pair of mole grips.
*Well, in a way, sort of.
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Hot air gun - when I was pottering with pottery, we had a hot air gun for drying slip and stuff. That, I think, might have done the job, but I'm not sure where I'd get one now! I can't see a hair dryer quite being up to the job!
I have got one at home if you want you can come round and have a go as it is a bit less drastic than the blow torch. It's technically not mine so i can't really lend it.
That could be just what I need. :thumbsup:
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Cudzo, let us know how you get on, please; I've got this job coming up. Feanor's set up looks excellent but I think he needs to actually ride the bike from time to time - it's TOO shiny!
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A kettles worth of boiling water over the crank (but none on the pedal) might loosen things up as the crank expands
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Another thought, would it be possible to drill a hole through the bit of pedal near the crank to put something long through it for leverage? I guess a pretty decent metal drill bit and decent drill would be needed here, but if the crank was off the bike it would be technically possible?
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Is there any reason why you can't just sacrifice the crank and stick a new one on?
Three reasons: I dislike waste and scrapping decent parts, I'm semi-skint*, and I'm trying to pay the bills! Oh, and a fourth one - I don't want to have more delay buying a new crank. At least I know I can fit it though! And can you actually buy just a l/h crank?
Yes. You might be pleasantly surprised at how cheaply, if you're not fussy about the thing matching.
If you've truly rounded off the 'nut', I would be looking into this option.
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Feanor's set up looks excellent but I think he needs to actually ride the bike from time to time - it's TOO shiny!
Before got to the end of your sentence, I assumed it was a reference to the diameter of my middle!
The shiny is just an artefact of the flash-gun, honest :)
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Cudz - I have the large size professional Park pedal spanner here with a mahoosive handle, and a large rubber hammer. That normally does the trick. If you fancy a quick visit to the bwncwr (not actually all that far from the bridge) then you'd be very welcome.
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Feanor's set up looks excellent but I think he needs to actually ride the bike from time to time - it's TOO shiny!
Before got to the end of your sentence, I assumed it was a reference to the diameter of my middle!
The shiny is just an artefact of the flash-gun, honest :)
;D
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Is there any reason why you can't just sacrifice the crank and stick a new one on?
Three reasons: I dislike waste and scrapping decent parts, I'm semi-skint*, and I'm trying to pay the bills! Oh, and a fourth one - I don't want to have more delay buying a new crank. At least I know I can fit it though! And can you actually buy just a l/h crank?
Yes. You might be pleasantly surprised at how cheaply, if you're not fussy about the thing matching.
If you've truly rounded off the 'nut', I would be looking into this option.
Yeah, here's one for £7!
http://www.bonthronebikes.co.uk/crank-l-h-170mm-stl
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Prior experience of Bonthronebikes suggests that getting the existing pedal off using a Tesco value 6" adjustable spanner and harsh language will be both quicker and easier.
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Alternatively could you substitute the pedal spanner in Feanor's pic with a large set of mole grips done up bastard-tight on the pedal axle?
Sadly, that won't work.
Firstly, you won't fit mole-grips in the space: they are too wide, unless you dismantle the pedal to leave just the axle remaining.
Secondly, mole grips even on their tightest setting are no match for this job. They would just slip.
If I had to deal with this, and the 15mm flats were fully rounded, then I'd remove the crank, strip the pedal fully, leaving only the axle. Then we need to figure how to get huge torque on the axle, along with heat. Mole grips won't cut it. I'd be inclined to use an ANGLE GRINDER to make flats on either side of the axle, so it could be gripped in a big well-secured engineering vice, and then use a big F-Off extenstion-tube on the crank, which I'd wrap in rags to prevent the tube from damaging the crank.
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Last time I had a tough one (totally dry thread and rusted to boot) I used penetrating oil followed by application of foot to spanner. Time before that I was getting nowhere but I was lucky in that the angle between the spanner and crankarm was pretty small. Used a G-clamp to bring the two together gradually (with some wooden shims to protect the crank).
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When you do finally get it off, run a tap through the crank to clear the thread. Grease the pedal before replacing.
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This is at the stage where I would consider removing/destroying the rest of the pedal to get access to the axle; then welding a suitable bar to it to grip it and going with that. Usually the heat of the welding combined with the solid lever will do the trick but it's a bit extreme and not everyone has access to the machinery (and yes you need to take the crank off the bike!).
When fitting your new pedals just remember to grease the threads properly so that they will come out when you want, avoiding all of the above hassle.
Crossposted with loadsabikes with whom I agree completely :)
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Cudz - I have the large size professional Park pedal spanner here with a mahoosive handle, and a large rubber hammer. That normally does the trick. If you fancy a quick visit to the bwncwr (not actually all that far from the bridge) then you'd be very welcome.
Thanks for the offer. I have a sneaking suspicion I might even have ridden through your village/small town on a previous occasion! There are two Bristolian options I'm taking up first, if they both fail I'll be in touch. :thumbsup:
I have to say this forum is full of jolly hospitable and helpful people. :)
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When you do finally get it off, run a tap through the crank to clear the thread. Grease the pedal before replacing.
Is it recommended to take them off every so often - couple of years maybe? - to regrease them? Mine have been untouched since the bike was new 13 years ago and I don't think the LBS that sold it had the greatest mechanics.
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If your successful and want to run a tap through to clean up the thread let me know. Have a set here in Bristol up the Glos rd
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I am thinking that instead of going to the pub from time to time we should go to this workshop in hamilton house and do a maintenance session. That could be a rather fun evening!
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I've been there once. It runs every Thursday evening from about 7:30 till 9 or 10. They're pretty helpful but it's a popular thing, I think if we all turned up at once there would be no room for anyone else! Though they do run daytime courses as well.
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I am thinking that instead of going to the pub from time to time we should go to this workshop in hamilton house and do a maintenance session. That could be a rather fun evening!
Or do that and then retire to the pub?
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Or we could even ride our workshop-fettled steeds to a nice country pub, maybe the Ring Of Bells in Hinton Blewitt... ;)
I've realised I really need n+1 in order to have some transport while my bike is mid-fettle and to be able to get to all the places where the bits and facilities I need to do the fettling are! Technically I already have another bike, but that's have as in own, not possess...
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You are welcome to attend a fettle-fest in mai lounge any evening, I am tooled up and have beer and a coffee machine :D
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I don't think I know the Mai Lounge, is that one of the trendy new places on Park St? :)
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I don't think I know the Mai Lounge, is that one of the trendy new places on Park St? :)
As an aside. I felt so old on Sat night at the Red Bull Hill Chasers on Park St. All the bars have changed and appeared too noisy and too dark.
I fear I'm getting old.
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I don't think I know the Mai Lounge, is that one of the trendy new places on Park St? :)
As an aside. I felt so old on Sat night at the Red Bull Hill Chasers on Park St. All the bars have changed and appeared too noisy and too dark.
I fear I'm getting old.
don't be afraid, you are younger than me!
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Penetrating oil might work better than WD-40, a few days soaking will give either more time to work, and what padbeat said about a paint stripping gun makes a lot of sense.
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We've had the angle grinder, but why has nobody mentioned thermite yet? Standards are slipping... ;D
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Prior experience of Bonthronebikes suggests that getting the existing pedal off using a Tesco value 6" adjustable spanner and harsh language will be both quicker and easier.
My already inexpressible smugness at never having attempted to buy anything from Bonthrone has just gone up another notch. :smug:
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... And if that fails I'll have to take the crank off and take it in to LBS who will doubtless charge me more than I saved by not buying from them in the first place ...
The last time I had the stuck-pedal problem I tried all the suggestions upthread (except the blowtorch) before "sod this, it's too difficult" set in. 5 minutes down the road to LBS (Fred Bakers, Gloucester Road), where their mechanic removed it effortlessly in a couple of seconds, using no more than the proper tool and a flick of the wrist. Cue sudden deflation of ego. No charge, but I'm a fairly regular customer & bought a couple of spare tubes for stock.
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... And if that fails I'll have to take the crank off and take it in to LBS who will doubtless charge me more than I saved by not buying from them in the first place ...
The last time I had the stuck-pedal problem I tried all the suggestions upthread (except the blowtorch) before "sod this, it's too difficult" set in. 5 minutes down the road to LBS (Fred Bakers, Gloucester Road), where their mechanic removed it effortlessly in a couple of seconds, using no more than the proper tool and a flick of the wrist. Cue sudden deflation of ego. No charge, but I'm a fairly regular customer & bought a couple of spare tubes for stock.
Do you know what was the tool?
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... where their mechanic removed it effortlessly in a couple of seconds, using no more than the proper tool and a flick of the wrist. Cue sudden deflation of ego. No charge, but I'm a fairly regular customer & bought a couple of spare tubes for stock.
Do you know what was the tool?
Oxy-acetylene torch.
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Do you know what was the tool?
These two have never let me down.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7068/6915451377_8089cdd740_b.jpg)
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Do you know what was the tool?
These two have never let me down.
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AFAIK, it was a standard pedal spanner off the tool board - certainly nothing fancy, and no scaffold tube. Just the magic technique.
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Do you know what was the tool?
These two have never let me down.
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AFAIK, it was a standard pedal spanner off the tool board - certainly nothing fancy, and no scaffold tube. Just the magic technique.
You'd probably loosened it for him :D
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A thing to try that I've had success with where no amount of ultra long pipes, penetrating fluid, heating and the like worked:
Remove the crank and lay it flat on a stout bench. Give it a sharp tap with a lump hammer (quite hard, maybe more like a 'whack' than a tap, unless it's a really heavy old hammer) so that the impact is through the line where the pedal axle goes.
As such:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-MVjCRQiyDlE/T0N6uHRE51I/AAAAAAAAA4k/fxTloqA5cX4/s128/crankwhack.png)
Then put the crank in a vice and use a pedal spanner with a big long pipe as leverage as normal.
Something to do with ovalisation, was what the bike shop that did it for me told me.
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More likely to do with cracking the corrosion. Same principle as an impact driver. good idea, whatever the mechanism.
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... And if that fails I'll have to take the crank off and take it in to LBS who will doubtless charge me more than I saved by not buying from them in the first place ...
The last time I had the stuck-pedal problem I tried all the suggestions upthread (except the blowtorch) before "sod this, it's too difficult" set in. 5 minutes down the road to LBS (Fred Bakers, Gloucester Road), where their mechanic removed it effortlessly in a couple of seconds, using no more than the proper tool and a flick of the wrist. Cue sudden deflation of ego. No charge, but I'm a fairly regular customer & bought a couple of spare tubes for stock.
Interesting. Fred Bakers is my LBS too, in the sense that it's the nearest but I rarely buy things there as they never seem to have what I want. Though I did buy a cassette in there a few weeks ago and they wanted IIRC £10 to fit it - but that was the bloke at the counter talking, the mechanic himself might have said something different - so I fitted it myself (I must acknowledge help from Smurphboy!). Anyway, I've heard an "interesting" tale about the mechanic there, but it's only one tale - I'll save it for another time, maybe in the Grain Barge! Ok, off to Panoramix and his heat gun now.
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"Oh, and regarding the Allen key hole in the back of some pedal axles: You'll bend an Allen key long before you shift a stubborn pedal."
It is possible to get alan key sockets of various sizes for 1/4"; 3/8"; 1/2" drive socket sets. In extreme cases it is possible to get a 2ft lever on to a 1/2" drive socket. A lot of parts are going to bend or rip or flare out before the alan key breaks Incidentally, as an obscure and probably useless piece of information, the 7mm alan keys that were used to self extract Campag record cranks in the old days are perfect for removing and re-assembling car brake calipers. (am I allowed to mention c***rs??)
Logged
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Well the heat gun was of a no use despite trying hard, we even tried to cool the pedal axle with ice! \nevertheless I had a spare crank lying around so I've traded it for the promise of free beer in the future! :thumbsup:
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As Panoramix says, we tried hard using heat, ice, a large section of washing line pole and a hammer, as well as various body parts, and he had various good ideas but all to no avail. But we did manage to extract a surplus l/h crank from his winter bike that hasn't happened, for which I owe him a beer. It also gave me the novel experience of riding a couple of miles with one foot in a toe clip and the other "flat" because I'd removed the toe clip. It's an odd and vaguely disquieting experience!
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Today I finally fitted my new pedals! ;D I used the crank I got from Panoramix, which doesn't match the other one visually but is the same length and does the job.
I also started dismantling the old pedal, still stuck on the crank. I'd never paid much attention to its construction before - an alloy cage is bolted to a body which is plastic, but tough and rigid, and the whole lot revolves on a ferro-cheese axle. Despite the materials I can't really complain about these pedals (VP brand, if you want to know); they've been on the bike since it was new almost 13 years ago and they're still in good condition, the bearings are smooth, etc.
Trouble is I'm now not sure it was a good idea to change them! After many years using toe clips the idea was I'd switch to SPD for "rides" but with flats on the other side for riding round town. I haven't fitted the cleats yet but a short test run this afternoon showed me I really don't like riding on flat, unclipped pedals now. I actually had similar pedals some time ago on a different bike but don't remember it being a problem - I don't think I ever used them in 'normal' shoes though. Oh well, I guess I'll give it some more time - I don't think I'll be clomping round shops and so on in cleats. Well, maybe, time will tell!
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I think I have similar pedals on my commuter bike. Mine are these (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-a530-spd-single-sided-touring-pedals/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=uk&utm_content=Shimano-Shimano_A530_SPD_Single_Sided_Touring_Pedals-Silver), I find that the cleats aren't an issue around town but you do need some decent shoes where the cleats are recessed. Then they don't clatter so much when you walk and you can ride flat or clipped in as they don't foul on the flat side.
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Those are exactly what I've now got. :) The issue is not so much clattering cleats as getting dressed up in Special Shoes when only going a mile to the shops and back - it just feels wrong, somehow, particularly when wearing jeans!
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Those are exactly what I've now got. :) The issue is not so much clattering cleats as getting dressed up in Special Shoes when only going a mile to the shops and back - it just feels wrong, somehow, particularly when wearing jeans!
Ahhh, yes. They do feel weird in normal shoes. Have you thought about bmx pedals with pins? You get good grip in flat shoes but they aren't like clips. They also look cool 8)
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Are you trying to persuade me to change my pedals again?! :o ;)
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Are you trying to persuade me to change my pedals again?! :o ;)
Well. Now you know how... I do have a pair you can try if you like. I used them before swapping to the A530s
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To think; the pair of you now have a closer relationship than you would have considered possible had any of the suggestions worked and you sorted it out on your own.
:P
H
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Cudzo came over to the SICRUT BWNCWR today - pedal sorted in a couple of minutes with a bit of plusgas, a big Park pedal spanner and a rubber mallet. We refitted the crank with the shiny new SPD pedal with plenty of anti-seize! ;D
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I guess some kind of extension is probably the way to go, but I can't think of anything that would do the job right now.
Bit late now, but for future reference... vacuum cleaner pipe over the end of the spanner. I have used this method successfully on stubborn bottom brackets.
d.
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Tough vacuum cleaners down your way then. Here in the world of Dyson, anything more than a strong look makes the pipe crumple.
An off cut of scaffold pipe, whilst useless at house cleaning duties, is V good at torquing things to DETH.
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Cudzo came over to the SICRUT BWNCWR today - pedal sorted in a couple of minutes with a bit of plusgas, a big Park pedal spanner and a rubber mallet. We refitted the crank with the shiny new SPD pedal with plenty of anti-seize! ;D
Clearly, I need to build muscles or improve my technique!
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An off cut of scaffold pipe, whilst useless at house cleaning duties, is V good at torquing things to DETH.
this is troofax
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Tough vacuum cleaners down your way then. Here in the world of Dyson, anything more than a strong look makes the pipe crumple.
An off cut of scaffold pipe, whilst useless at house cleaning duties, is V good at torquing things to DETH.
My thoughts, exactly.
The scaff pipe I've pictured upthread (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=56925.msg1169120#msg1169120) has a wall section of 4.4mm. The tubes from my Miele do not.
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Cudzo came over to the SICRUT BWNCWR today - pedal sorted in a couple of minutes with a bit of plusgas, a big Park pedal spanner and a rubber mallet. We refitted the crank with the shiny new SPD pedal with plenty of anti-seize! ;D
Clearly, I need to build muscles or improve my technique!
A bit of percussion with a big enough hammer rarely fails. I do have a length of scaff pole standing by, fortunately it wasn't needed this time!
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Scaffold poles - vv useful for this sort of thing ...
If you have one! Dad had a couple of (with different IDs), used them for quite a few jobs (usually to unf_ck something that I'd attempted the fettling of ).
Rarely a useful suggestion, sadly, as you can't just pop down Halfords/Homebase/etc and buy one to fix the urgent bike problem. If you already have one, you wouldn't be asking how to undo your stuck bolt! :'(
M
p.s. Er ... where do people get them from? :-[
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Scaffold poles - vv useful for this sort of thing ...
p.s. Er ... where do people get them from? :-[
I will have to plead the 5th Amendment ;)
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That's the thing - I don't have scaffolding but I do have a vacuum cleaner. A sturdy Scandinavian-built Nilfisk vacuum cleaner. I scorn your puny Dysons.
I'm sure my wife would rather I used a bit of scaffolding though.
d.
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That's the thing - I don't have scaffolding but I do have a vacuum cleaner. A sturdy Scandinavian-built Nilfisk vacuum cleaner. I scorn your puny Dysons.
I'm sure my wife would rather I used a bit of scaffolding though.
d.
Nilfisk?
*Impressed*
And jealous :D
WTF?
What is vacuum cleaner envy all about ?
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Cudzo came over to the SICRUT BWNCWR today - pedal sorted in a couple of minutes with a bit of plusgas, a big Park pedal spanner and a rubber mallet. We refitted the crank with the shiny new SPD pedal with plenty of anti-seize! ;D
Clearly, I need to build muscles or improve my technique!
A bit of percussion with a big enough hammer rarely fails. I do have a length of scaff pole standing by, fortunately it wasn't needed this time!
It was a big hammer! And maybe the plus gas plays an important role? Tewdric made it look easy! Anyway, Panoramix, I don't think it's your muscles lacking (might be mine though!) cos I remember how the spanner was just slipping and chewing off the corners.
Big thanks to Tewdric for Mighty Percussion and a cause for a good ride too! And to Mrs Tewdric for cheese toasties and the little Tewdrics for entertainment. :thumbsup:
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Nilfisk?
*Impressed*
And jealous :D
WTF?
What is vacuum cleaner envy all about ?
I'm sure Freud would have something interesting to say on the matter. ;D
d.
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Feanor, I just tried your method from reply 15, as a preliminary to fitting some new pedals soon. Worked a treat, even with a relatively thin headset/cone spanner. Maybe I've just been lucky but I'll settle for that!
Many thanks
Peter
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Good, if old, thread.
As Cudzoziemiec described in the original message, I'm using a Park workshop spanner on a pair of SPDs. Like Cudzoziemiec, I've leant on it hard enough to round the flats on the pedal spindle somewhat, so can't lean harder. I've tried a couple of kettles of water. I don't have access to a heat gun - maybe I should buy one? I could try a paraffin ("Primus" look-alike) stove that I have. Or the kitchen blowtorches are an interesting idea. Coca-Cola is also on my list, as in this thread (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3424.25). And the percussion method with a lump hammer - not seen that elsewhere.
I've used WD40 and even tried two of us, one on the Allen-key socket and one on the Park spanner, at the same time.
I was actually doing the pedals on two bikes that I've had for a while. I've shifted three out of four. This is the last one.
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I recently used a hammer (not hard) on a high quality 'stahlwille' spanner trying to get a stuck pedal out. Two hits and I had a result.
However it wasn't the result I wanted; what I ended up with was a stahlwille spanner in two pieces. I looked up the cost of an identical replacement and I realised that I had just broken one of the most expensive spanners I owned. Much wailing and gnashing of teeth ensued. I recommend that you don't hit spanners with hammers, and if you do, best not use an expensive one.
If you use a blowtorch or heat gun on a typical (not all models) stuck SPD pedal you will have to find some way of stopping the plastic 'pastrycutter' shaped bearing retaining collar from melting. I recommend wrapping tissue paper round the collar and keeping it sodden with water. If the worst comes to the worst you can buy a new sleeve, but dealing with the melty mess of the old collar is no fun.
cheers
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Plus Gas and a club hammer normally do it for me.
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Thanks. As I mentioned, the flats on the pedal are rounded, so I don't think hitting a spanner will do more knock the spanner off the flats and cause even more damage to the plastic collar than has already occurred from slippage. I was referring to Euan Uzami's suggestion on page 2 of hitting the side of the pedal eye.
But yes, melting the collar is a risk with the heat idea.
Is Plus Gas significantly better than WD40?
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Is Plus Gas significantly better than WD40?
No.
Plus-Gas is infinitely better than WD40.
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Plus Gas it is then :thumbsup:
And a lump hammer :hand:
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I used to get something from euro car parts called super crack. Was even better then plus gas
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I used to get something from euro car parts called super crack. Was even better then plus gas
I think I used to buy that from a bloke round the back of the pub.
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if the problem is simply getting good purchase on the pedal spindle there is a (fairly time-consuming and fiddly) method which might work for you.
If you are prepared to use a set of grips on the bearing retaining collar (which will certainly mark it but may not ruin it) the bearing cartridge can be removed from the pedal body whilst the pedal is still on the crank. Once that is apart, the bearing assembly can be dismantled and the collar etc removed. The pedal spindle can then be gripped in a bench vice directly, using packing and/or a light grind to give better flats if necessary. That ought to give you enough purchase to remove the pedal, provided heat/penetrant is used accordingly.
BTW I wouldn't go smacking anything other than a steel crank or a cheap (soft, ductile) aluminium crank pedal eye with a hammer, not if I wanted to use the crank again.
good luck!
cheers
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Wow, I nearly had forgotten this episode...
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I had a seized pedal on a brand new Brompton recently.
Oil, boiling water, breaker bar and copious swearing. Nothing worked.
I had it dismantled down to the crank/spider (no chain ring) and said pedal. Three hours in the freezer, followed by pouring boiling water over it, then my usual body weight on the breaker bar and the thing eventually shifted.
Next to feck all grease and the tightening force of Hercules applied at the factory.
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if the problem is simply getting good purchase on the pedal spindle there is a (fairly time-consuming and fiddly) method which might work for you.
Thanks. The collar, assuming that's the plastic thing, is already damaged by the spanner slipping off. So replacing it is a possibility already. One way and another, I've been using SPDs for many years, but I've never felt the need to strip one down, so this is helpful. I even have the tools to do it, just never really tried. The bearings have always felt good. I ought to have done it, but...
It's a basic Stronglight crank and a low-end SPD, so replacing one or both might be easier, but getting them apart while still usable would be far more satisfying. I may try the Plus Gas first. Or even Super Crack (see jokes above about that).
Mind you, you're talking to someone who has broken the jaws on two bench vices trying to separate bike parts.
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IME when it comes to stuck (corroded) pedals heat makes a difference, but plus gas (without heat) usually does approximately f-all. The best I can say for it is that once the pedal has started to unscrew, it might make it easier.
NB the RH pedal uses a LH thread on the collar and the LH pedal uses a RH thread on the collar
(http://www.sjscycles.com/supersize/30457.jpg)
cheers
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For what it's worth, I've found that stepping on the spanner is easier than trying to lever it using my hands. This requires a spanner with a handle thick and long enough that it can take a foot pressing down on it. Sometimes a 12" adjustable will fit the pedal flats, other times it needs the pedal spanner with a piece of pipe covering the handle.
Setting for this job is what makes it safe. I keep the wheels on the bike and place the bike in a place where it won't move, facing into the corner of the room is good - make sure you're prepared to support your own weight for the moment when the pedal comes free.
Edit: Similar idea is shown upthread in Feanor's excellent post (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=56925.msg1167518#msg1167518).
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Thanks, but as above leverage on the spanner is limited, by rounding of the flats on the pedals from attempts so far, to less than I can achieve with arm strength alone. Hence the last few messages.
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It's often easier with the crank off. Boiling water on the end of the crank has never failed me. Sticking the crank and pedal in the freezer for an hour THEN pouring boiling water over the crank is the next step. You have to be quick...the crank expands more, and faster, than the pedal spindle.
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the worst cases I have encountered have only succumbed to ;
- pedal spindle in the bench vice
- length of something added to the crank for extra leverage
- multiple hot/cold cycles using blowtorch or heat gun
- using ATF instead of penetrating oil on the hot crank
Most oils become very fluid at high temperatures and penetrate well. Once the part is hot, solvent-based penetrating fluids just boil and are of little value.
ATF starts to burn (char) at slightly over 200C which means that you ought to see if you overheat the crank or not (the metal will quickly change irrevocably at higher temperatures than this). At lower temperatures the water tied up in the oxide will bubble out through the oil, and you know you are doing some good. Alternating hold/cold cycles cause (net) the oxide in the thread to lose water and gain oil.
Even with the best and most thorough treatment there is always a fair chance that when the crank starts to move, it will have torn the threads in part of the threaded length. When this happens the threads in the crank will be damaged, depending on where the tear starts. If it is near the back of the crank then the crank thread may be totally destroyed and a helicoil is necessary. If it is near the front of the crank then you may lose one or two threads only in which case the crank is still usable.
IME the threads are most likely to bind near the front of the crank especially when pedal spindles without a full shoulder are used (these let the grot into the threads and help the grease/copper-ease to be washed out). The undercut in the spindle threads can either harbour copper-ease or corrosive grot; the choice is yours. However during removal the damage to the crank is severe should the threads be torn starting from the back, so it makes most sense to have the pedal spindle in the bench vice so that the back of the crank is uppermost, and to introduce penetrant from there, heat/cold cycle assisted.
When you have got the pedal out, the spindle threads may be full of aluminium etc. Under no circumstances should you screw such pedals back into a nice set of cranks; you will wreck the crank threads. The spindle ought to be hard, too hard to address with a file (if you want the file not to go blunt very quickly). You can appear to clean the threads out with a wire brush, but IME the only 100% safe and effective method of cleaning the threads is to scrape the grot out using a pointed tool. I usually employ the point of a Stanley knife blade, and examine the result using about x10 magnification. If you want to 'test' a pedal spindle then there is something to be said for screwing it into an old steel crank.
IME if you adopt the above approach then the pedal spindle can always be saved (*), and the crank (if the seizure was bad enough to start with) is more likely than not to be damaged. However it is never so badly damaged that it cannot be repaired using a thread insert.
(*) the exception to this may be stupid pedals with allen-key-only spindle fittings; 6mm sockets round out too easily, and 8mm sockets tend to split lengthwise when high torque is used.
hth
cheers
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... IME the only 100% safe and effective method of cleaning the threads is to scrape the grot out using a pointed tool.
I have a small screwdriver that I use for the purpose, though I've never gone as far as checking with a magnifying glass. Generally, the aluminium comes out in chunks. I've already done the other three pedals that I mentioned.
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Coca-Cola is also on my list, as in this thread (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3424.25).
Reminds me of a similar story (stuck BB not pedal), I'm sure I've posted it here before. Ah yes:-
Had a similar problem when changing the BB after the axle on my commuter hackbike snapped (http://www.greenbank.org/misc/IMG_4637.JPG) thanks to my RAW POWER.
It snapped on the way in to work after 3 miles so I collected the bits off the road and cycled the remaining 5 miles one legged. Nipped to Evans at lunch to buy a new BB, BB-tool and crank extractor. Got a friend to bring a long handled socket wrench in. Intention was to go to the pub after playing 5-a-side football and swap it over sitting outside the pub in nice sunshine with a pint (or several) in my hand.
Pedals off, cranks off but just couldn't get either side of the BB undone. No amount of brute force was helping. The nearby garage had closed and, unsurprisingly, the bar didn't have any WD-40.
Got another pint and sat there thinking what to do. Friends now sniggering at my predicament and half disassembled bike.
But then I remembered exactly what to do.
Inside to the bar and ordered a coke with no ice. Bike on its side and tipped some of the coke onto the BB so that it pooled there nicely. Left it for 15 minutes and it undid with only a reasonable bit of force. Turned the bike over, bathed that side in coke, waited and that too undid with no hassle. New BB in and all working again within 10 minutes after that. Mix of stunned amazement and annoyance from friends.
(http://www.greenbank.org/misc/bbfail.jpg)
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Blimey ! I got one of these yesterday
(https://www.wigglestatic.com/product-media/5300002587/Park-Tools-Professional-Pedal-Wrench-Workshop-Tools-QKPW4-0.jpg)
It's a lot bigger than it looks online.