Mavic ID360 freehubs

[Feanor]

I had a catastrophic and fairly sudden drive failure on the club run today.
About 50k in, the freehub began slipping once or twice. Over the course of a couple of hours, this progressed to slipping badly, then total failure: bi-directional freewheeling.
I could sustain very small amounts of power to re-trace downhill to a town to await rescue, but uphill was impossible; it just slipped uncontrollably.

The wheel is a cheapish Mavic Ksyrium, don't exactly know, the labelling is gone.
A bit of googling, and the freehub is called a Instant Drive ID360, which I have now removed and dismantled.

This is unlike say a Shimano freehub, where the pawl and ratchets are contained inside the freehub body, and simply replacing the freehub makes everything good.
With the ID360, the body is just a body, with splines for the cassette, and a pair of bearings. There is no ratchettyness in it. It spins freely in either direction.
The ratchettyness comes from a pair of ratchet discs which are pressed together by a spring, which go between the freehub body and the wheel itself:



Once these wear, and the spring looses it's sproing, they Fail to Proceed in short order!
Now, these repair kits come in 2 flavours, Road 40 Teeth, and a chonkier MTB 24 Teeth.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/mavic-2-ratchets-spring-grease-kit-for-id360-40t-v2251701
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/mavic-2-ratchets-spring-grease-kit-for-id360-24t-v2375201

The road ones are utterly unobtanium.
Has anyone tried using the MTB variants in a road hub?
The SJS link for the MTB one does suggest they can be used in the Axium, which is a Road wheel amongst others, so I'm inclined to think it will work.

[Hot Flatus]

I have 2 wheelsets with ID360, but I've yet to service them.

Just a thought, but could you get away with just replacing the spring and greasing the ratchets? They are £4 (use the special grease though)

https://www.totalcycling.com/Mobile/en/Mavic-ID360-Spring/m-m-24144.aspx

This ratchet system is essentially the DT Swiss system on their 350/240/180 hubs (although I doubt parts are jnterchangeable).

It is also starting to appear in chinese/Taiwanese brands.

[Feanor]

I don't think replacing just the spring is good enough.

I've dismantled a couple more this evening, and examined the ratchet tooth profiles through a magnifier.
The ratchet tooth profile (imagine it laid out in a straight line) is not slope- vertical drop - slope - vertical drop.
The 'vertical drop' part of the ratchet profile is actually under-cut back under the slope.
This means that when they engage, the drive is actually wedging the two pieces together ever more forcefully.
The spring force is not really what's jamming the two pieces together any more once under load, it's the tooth profile and the drive force.

Once this profile wears, and it does tend to just a straight 'vertical drop', and then even worse, a saw-tooth, the spring cannot exert enough force to hold them together under load once the profile has become this worn.

[Feanor]

I've managed to find a source of the bits I need:

https://www.tradeinn.com/bikeinn/en/mavic-id360-spring-and-ratchet-kit-set/137660416/p

Dunno why it's so hard to find Mavic spares. I'm wondering if it's Brexit related?
If you go to the Mavic website, you land on the generic 'international' site, where it says they currently don't deliver to your location.
The country selector does not have any UK option.
In fact, the country-selector is rather limited: it only has France, Germany, Spain, Italy, US and Japan! Not even all of the EU!

https://www.mavic.com/en-int

[Hot Flatus]

Good find 

I did have a little look for some last night for you but no luck on any of my usual trusty euro sites.

I'm quite curious about this episode. Did you ever grease the ratchets? IIRC the service manual suggests doing it quite frequently, from memory every 1000 miles.

[Feanor]

I've never opened up the freehub for any maintenance at all!
I've never even seen the service manual!

It's super-low mileage, having only completed 10 years of SR series, PBP, LEL, and the Swedish 1200.
I'd have expected better.

I've been reading up, and apparently they pretty much went bust back in 2020, were bought and sold, and are struggling to regain a firm financial foothold.

[Peter]

Obviously it's not properly run in, yet!  I love "sproing"!

[moluccensis]

What perfect timing! Had the same thing happen earlier this week, earned a PhD in YouTube free hub mechanics only to get stumped by the second ratchet being very stuck after removing hub body (with spring and first ratchet…

For now I’ve regreased and reassembled and it appears to work, but given how rusty my ratchets were I think I’ll order the replacement kit anyway… Did you have any struggles getting the second ratchet out? I resorted to remove the whole assembly, but then got stumped by the come shaped cover that sits over the two-pin spring… couldn’t get that off either (special tool needed?)…

Any advice on how you got it all apart apprecia!

[Hot Flatus]

Whack the other side with a soft mallet.

[Feanor]

The problem was initially identifying what I actually had.
All the videos I found on YouTube were wrong: they were for different freehubs.
So it was a challenge to just get the thing off in the first instance.

All the videos showed variations on end-caps with flats on them which you could spanner off, or with internal hexes which would take allen keys inside them. My wheels had neither flats or hexes. Turns out you simply *pull* the QR end-cap off of what is basically a thru-axle centre. This required a bit of ugga-dugga with a set of water-pump pliers (hen's legs). There *is* a bit of a profile on this, so it might be possible to find an open-ended spanner which just nicely fits in there to be able to push it off, but the red mist had descended by then, and it was all about brute force.

Then, the freehub body 'just' pulls off. Only it doesn't, because the bearings are seized onto the thru-axle tube. There's no good way to grip the freehub body to apply force, so I clamped it in the vice and used a drift to belt the thru-axle tube up and out of it. It took a lot of persuasion, and that in turn required me to clamp the body *very* firmly in the vice at the risk of distorting it. I seem to have got away with it, the bearings inside it are quite chonky and prevent the body distorting.

Once the body was off, the two halves of the ratchet came out readily.
So I now have a wheel that has a splined recess for the inner ratchet, and a freehub body that has a splined recess for the outer ratchet.
If the inner ratchet was seized into the wheel hub, I'm not sure how I'd proceed. I'd need to inspect and think.

Not sure what you mean about the

come shaped cover that sits over the two-pin spring… couldn’t get that off either (special tool needed?)…

If you click on the bikeinn link I posted, there's a Mavic Exploded View of the whole thing. Which item numbers is it you mean?

There is a lockring inside the freehub body underneath where the cassette lockring goes.
This needs either a special pinned tool to remove, or simply tap it out with a pin-punch and hammer.
Unless you are going to drift the bearings out of the freehub body, there's no need to remove this lockring.

[moluccensis]

Yep, went through the same process as you describe (including swearing at all the incorrect videos out there 😅), and got the hub body off with the first ratchet and spring, but the second ratchet is fully ceased into the wheel hub… hence trying to remove the whole hub assembly but I can’t get part 15 (from exploded diagram)off on the non-drive side…Anyway, it seems to be working for now and if it starts to not engage again, I might just have to ask my LBS to get that second ratchet off for me 🤷🏼‍♀️

[moluccensis]

Whack the other side with a soft mallet.

Tried that, no luck! It’s very firmly stuck, been trying to dislodge it with a pick and there’s no movement at all…

[Hot Flatus]

Just serviced my Cosmic Pro SL hub. Took 10 minutes, no tools needed. Didn't need to remove freewheel, just pulled it off.

Cleaned, regressed with Mavic special grease, replaced seal and spring.

Runs quieter after. No sign of any dirt inside, but wheel has only been used may to Oct for 5 years.