LEL - Tracking progress of yACF riders

[Chris S]

PBP showed us just how brilliant our forum (in its previous guise) could be at virtual support for our online friends and acquaintances. The "Progress" thread was a highly addictive magnet for us who were supporting from a distance, and I suspect a useful source of reading/reference matter for the riders when they got back and read it for themselves.

It was of course facilitated by (a) The fact that PBP riders had swipe cards for controls, that automagically fed their progress through to a central website, and (b) some scripting wizardry by our very own Master Greenbank Esq.

I don't know whether LEL will have such modern gizmos as swipe cards will it? T'would be great if there are, but I'm assuming not. If not, and there is the appetite for repeating such a support exercise, we'll need to think up another way of tracking progress.
Greenbank is riding LEL - but I'm not, and I would be happy to provide some techie support on such an exercise.

So - should we be planning some kind of yACF progress tracking website?

[geraldc]

This ride will be twittered, facebooked, photographed and geotagged...and that's just from me and an iPhone

[Chris S]

This ride will be twittered, facebooked, photographed and geotagged...and that's just from me and an iPhone

Now I know I'm getting old  . There's very little of that reply that I actually understood  . Twittered?

[Greenbank]

I intend to ride it, keep Mrs G vaguely updated with the fact that I'm not lying in a ditch (or if I am it is on purpose) and that's about it.

No blog, no facebook, no twitter, no SPOT-tracker.

If there's a cool way it can be done automagically (a la PBP) because of stuff going on within LEL then excellent but I won't be concerned at all since I'll know exactly where I am at all times (I hope).

[hellymedic]

This ride will be twittered, facebooked, photographed and geotagged...and that's just from me and an iPhone

Now I know I'm getting old  . There's very little of that reply that I actually understood  . Twittered?

Even the CTC is on Twitter, Auntie C says. DKUATB!

[border-rider]

Twitter is like YACF but for young people

 

[Hummers]

I have been told I am visible from outer space so it should be reasonably easy to track me from the top of Portsdown Hill.

Failing that, there is this strange plastic watchorsomething  those nice men from the Home Office had wrapped around my ankle.

H

[Greenbank]

If not, and there is the appetite for repeating such a support exercise, we'll need to think up another way of tracking progress.

My other plan was to use sms2email (it's free¹) and a load of perl² cruft to download and parse the emails and update a database, the contents of which are then rendered interesting by cgi.

All you'd have to do is train people to send the SMSs in the right format, which is not an easy task.

1.
    email To SMS, SMS To email, bulk sms & SMS text messaging.
    Reliable, Award-Winning Solutions.
    The Complete Corporate SMS Solution
   . Just text 07766 40 41 42 with the email address as the first part of the message and it'll be delivered for free (someone replying to the email requires you to have an account and credit for it to be delivered to your mobile).
2. Or whatever language takes your fancy.

[MattH]

It would be pretty easy to set up something more bespoke.
I can set up a dedicated incoming number, that would forward the incoming message to a web server.
Add a database matching rider's mobile numbers with their forum names. Then, a bit of web scripting to update a status page with the message sent by the rider.
So you could simply send a text to the yacf number saying "At control X, feeling good" and that can be shown on the web site - no having to remember funny formats for the text and it can be fully automated.

[nic]

I will be tweeting if I do LEL. Nice and simple.

[Ivo]

It would be good to have a sort of rider-sighting page here at YACF. Some YACF-members will be riding, some will be assisting/controlling, some might just be watching it from the roadside. A central number to send te sightings to would be good. LEL is too small at the moment to have facilities as swipe cards without adding an enormous amount to the entrance fee. So we'll have to rely to more classic methods of rider sightings .

[toontra]

I'll happily tweet if someone tells me how!

[LEL]

I have had many ideas on this though I have no computer know how and a nightmare of LEL communications - we do not have Internet at most of the controls, though  mobile phones have much better coverage than we had in 2005,  there are still some patchy areas in the remote sections of the route.

I have a plan to communicate between controls involving mobile phones which could be done the old fashioned way by actually speaking to someone or texting.

Basically, we could let someone know  at the end of a phone where people are (or possibly internet on a couple of controls) for updates, but so far thats about it.

If a system could be devised whereby  we could communicate with someone  who could upload  information to the forum  this would be absolutely great.

If anyone is interested in organising this, or if you could come up with ideas YES PLEASE! - it would be easier to discuss over the phone the  planned system  - typing is a bit long winded.

It is since the 2007 PBP that I have been wondering how best to reassure the world ( I mean that in its literal sense) that any  'Mayor Larrington' episodes are  kept updated and relatives friends can be reassured its not their rider who is involved etc.

I would be delighted if a full discussion took place on this.  Thouth i would like to insisit if we use texting, that only approved words are shortened - not all our volunteers are fluent in english.

[hellymedic]

I have little technical know-how but I have a PAYG Broadband dongle for my little laptop.
I hope to be at Lee Valley and ought to be able to inform the forum from there.
If most controls had similar access to this sort of thing, we could keep most people up-to date at minimal expense.
It is dependent on getting a mobile signal though.

[hellymedic]

My basic idea is to record the name and number of every rider onto a list which is uploaded to the forum hourly or so, minimising time on-line (cos I'm a meanie).

[Chris S]

Most riders carry mobiles I guess. Something easy peasy lemon squeezy to use (Select a pre-saved sms, hit send) might work well enough - but punch drunk randonneurs forgetting to do this after 1000km might mean gaps in the coverage later on.

What might be more reliable is something along the same lines, but for use by controllers. But I'd need to put my thinking cap on and have a muse. I have my work hat on right now - I'll come back to this later.

[MattH]

MattH's idea would work very well for yACF riders. It's simple and effective.

However, it's a bit trickier for foreign LEL riders who may not be able to send SMS messages to a UK number (no roaming coverage, not all "text" message systems are compatible with GSM SMS, cost of international SMS, etc).

There seems to be separate problems here, with solutions that depend upon what we are trying to solve.

There are (at least) three system types we could be trying to design:-

1. Something simple and easy for yacf use only (maybe 20 riders? number plucked out of thin air). This potentially means that it could be set up manually for each rider.

2. Something that is capable of handling anyone who is interested in using it. More riders means some kind of automatic sign-up would be preferable.

3. Something that is used for ALL riders.


Then there are (at least) two main ways of handling the data input during the ride:-

1. It is the rider's responsibility. (e.g. they have to send a text message, or go to a WAP/internet page each time they want to update their position).

2. It is handled by the controllers as you get your brevet stamped.


Obviously these need quite different things setting up.

Personally, I'd like a system where the controllers handle it for everybody. This may be done using web forms or uploading a spreadsheet every so often - as long as there is mobile coverage. Using SMS could get expensive if you send a message for every one of the 500+ riders at each control. But that is extra work for people who are probably going to be quite busy already - and it is possible that not all controls will have mobile coverage. A computer and dongle would have to be provided at each location too.

Each rider having responsibility for their own would be simpler to manage, but with the problems of potentially expensive messages for overseas riders (though the actual costs will be minimal compared to the cost of getting here and riding - assuming they have phones that work in the UK). It would also be more difficult to generate real tracking (a table of times that each rider got to each control) without imposing a text format to be typed in physically tired and not 100% mentally alert (using a web form would make that easier, but not everyone knows how to use/has a wap/web browser on their phone). But it may be enough for viewers to enter the rider number and see a set of received text messages giving a narrative from the rider.

I can help on this (as I said, I can provide a standard UK number to send texts to that can be routed to an email or web parser, and in common with probably a lot of people here can also provide web hosting for it).

[Ivo]

For foreign riders who wish to do some more phoning as the bare essentials, buying an UK pre-paid card will be the best line to follow. I usually do this while travelling somewhere. If you use your own phone as a foreigner it can indeed get expensive, I pay 50 Eurocents per SMS when I'm in another EU country. If someone can easily obtain some 100+ pre-paid UK SIM-cards that would be very interesting for quite a lot of foreign riders (not expecting everyone to use this possibility).

[hellymedic]

The USB broadband dongle on my laptop has its own phone number, which riders could SMS to give updates. Being a cheapie PAYG I can't use that to send messages but I have a phone for that.

[MattH]

For foreign riders who wish to do some more phoning as the bare essentials, buying an UK pre-paid card will be the best line to follow. I usually do this while travelling somewhere. If you use your own phone as a foreigner it can indeed get expensive, I pay 50 Eurocents per SMS when I'm in another EU country.

Whilst that is expensive, for purposes of tracking you'd probably only send say 20 messages, at a cost of 10 Euro. Not bank breaking.

If someone can easily obtain some 100+ pre-paid UK SIM-cards that would be very interesting for quite a lot of foreign riders (not expecting everyone to use this possibility).

I wonder if there is an opportunity here to either get a phone dealer to turn up with a some boxes of SIM cards to be sold at registration, or supply them on sale-or-return?

[Greenbank]

A combined system could be possible.

LEL officials would have an admin webpage to input rider progress. This would be something as simple as logging into a webpage, selecting which control they are at, and typing in the rider number(s) and clicking "OK". It would rely on there being Internet access at each control which isn't guaranteed. Relaying rider information over the phone is possible but it introduces delays, costs, could be time consuming and is another possible source of errors.

Riders with access to SMS can text/email with their locations/messages which are displayed as extra data on their individual rider progress page.

My first question would be: Is there likely to be Internet access at each of the controls? (By this I mean a computer or laptop connected via a reasonable connection like Helly's example? One person with an iPhone probably isn't going to cut it for recording 500 odd riders coming through.)

[Chris S]

My first question would be: Is there likely to be Internet access at each of the controls? (By this I mean a computer or laptop connected via a reasonable connection like Helly's example? One person with an iPhone probably isn't going to cut it for recording 500 odd riders coming through.)

Answered up thread I'll think you'll find...

[geraldc]

In HK, we use a phone based tracking system for my gran. We let her wander off (with her mobile switched on and in her handbag), and when we want to know where she is, we text a number and it texts us back with her rough location e.g. the name of the estate/shopping centre.

I think this is the UK equivalent.  Could work for LEL. Maybe worth approaching similar companies for sponsorship/freebies.

FollowUs - track mobile, track mobile phone, mobile phone tracking, mobile tracking, tracking mobile, tracking mobiles

[Greenbank]

Ah yes. That makes it tricky then.

I'm guessing PBP didn't have this problem as it is big enough that it could invest in a swipe card system (or borrow one) and rely on the fact that every control had Internet access.

Without direct Internet access you'll need someone to log the info on a bit of paper and call it through to someone sitting in-front of a computer (24 hours a day during the event) whose job it is to update the info.

"At Coxwold at 9am we had riders 111, 222, 123, 234. At 9.15am we had riders 12-27, 31-48, 59-102, 124"

The person at the computer selects "Coxwold", "9am" and enters 111, 222, 123, 234 and hits submit. They then select "9.15am" and enter "12-27, 31-48, 59-102, 124" and hits submit, etc.

With Internet access someone types the same information in directly, without having to relay it over the phone.

I'm not entirely sure it's going to be that workable given opening/closing times of controls and which ones have Internet access. Assigning just 10 seconds per rider adds up to over 90 minutes per control for the number of riders in LEL. Multiply that by 18 controls and you've got 27 hours of work.

Lots to think about.

[Ivo]

For foreign riders who wish to do some more phoning as the bare essentials, buying an UK pre-paid card will be the best line to follow. I usually do this while travelling somewhere. If you use your own phone as a foreigner it can indeed get expensive, I pay 50 Eurocents per SMS when I'm in another EU country.

Whilst that is expensive, for purposes of tracking you'd probably only send say 20 messages, at a cost of 10 Euro. Not bank breaking.

If we can get a supplyer providing pre-paid SIM cards for about 10 Pound with enough credit on it for let's say 25-50 SMS's, that would be cheaper and better for the riders. Especially if they know their UK mobile number before the ride starts so they can be called from home at no extra costs for themselves.

If someone can easily obtain some 100+ pre-paid UK SIM-cards that would be very interesting for quite a lot of foreign riders (not expecting everyone to use this possibility).

I wonder if there is an opportunity here to either get a phone dealer to turn up with a some boxes of SIM cards to be sold at registration, or supply them on sale-or-return?

For the larger countries (LEL wise) we can use our network of national correspondents in this regard. They could ask their riders who's interested in a local SIM card and reserve a certain amount of them for their riders. If the phone numbers are known let's say a month before the start then the riders even know their temporary UK number before they start LEL.
 That leaves only a relatively small amount of foreign riders to deal with at registration day.