Recommend me a Chef's knife

[Ham]

Quick, easy https://www.nisbets.co.uk/vogue-two-stage-manual-knife-sharpener/gd035

or https://www.nisbets.co.uk/vogue-diamond-sharpening-steel-305mm/d161

if you want to go all manual

[TimO]

Thanks Ham.  Those both look reasonable.

I also wondered about the Lanksy kit, which in its standard kit seems reasonably priced, relatively easy to use, and versatile, albeit there's only a limited set of angles available (although that seems to be the case with most of these sorts of tools).

This Smiths Manual Adjustable Sharpener also seems to get some recommendations.

Those two are obviously quite a bit more expensive than your suggestions, but they're also way less than the >£100 that some wet stones are priced at.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Following the Dutch roadster analogy, you should surely get something a couple of generations old, stolen numerous times but you think the person you bought it from probably got it legally, with a cracked handle and a rusty blade but it all works and still will in twenty years time.

[Ham]

Thanks Ham.  Those both look reasonable.

I also wondered about the Lanksy kit, which in its standard kit seems reasonably priced, relatively easy to use, and versatile, albeit there's only a limited set of angles available (although that seems to be the case with most of these sorts of tools).

This Smiths Manual Adjustable Sharpener also seems to get some recommendations.

Those two are obviously quite a bit more expensive than your suggestions, but they're also way less than the >£100 that some wet stones are priced at.

I have the lansky kit, the only kitchen knife I use it on is a serrated edge one, for which you can get a triangular honing stone. For most large knives, it is all a bit of a faff. Pocket knives and small blades it is ideal for.

Without trying to get snobby (actually, being the reverse), if you can tolerate a blunt knife as you appear to be able to, those cheap sharpeners used regularly will keep any knife adequately sharp, I suspect that the vari-angle thing is another potential failure vector for something that is really very simple. I'm curious to see it has a "serrated" knife setting, that really won't work without taking the nibs off the high ends, I know of no other way than using a slip stone of some sort on a knife like this. https://www.nisbets.co.uk/victorinox-wooden-handled-serrated-bread-knife-215mm/c648 I would take any suggestion that it could be successfully used with a pinch of seasoning.

Have a shufti at the Nisbet's selection https://www.nisbets.co.uk/search?sort=max-price-asc&q=knife+sharpener&show=All&view=list you won't go far wrong with any (and they have a whetstone guide for £5 if that's the way you want to go)

[TimO]

I have the lansky kit, the only kitchen knife I use it on is a serrated edge one, for which you can get a triangular honing stone. For most large knives, it is all a bit of a faff. Pocket knives and small blades it is ideal for.

Ah, that's useful information.

... if you can tolerate a blunt knife as you appear to be able to, those cheap sharpeners used regularly will keep any knife adequately sharp ...

Fair comment.  I'm not an avid cook, just mildly enthusiastic.  I'm as likely to use a knife to open a packet of cheese, as I am to use it to chop up piece of meat!  I guess I need something that's easy enough, that I'll use it relatively regularly, and as necessary.  As you say, the relatively cheap sharpeners are probably going to do a better job than my current, almost zero, sharpening.

... I'm curious to see it has a "serrated" knife setting, that really won't work without taking the nibs off the high ends, I know of no other way than using a slip stone of some sort ... I would take any suggestion that it could be successfully used with a pinch of seasoning.

Yes, I wondered about that too.  I can't see any practical easy way that you could sharpen a serrated edge.  I presume large scale manufacturers use machines adjusted to the "tooth" pattern, which would be impractically complicated and large for normal household use.  I can't see how a simple drawing process would not kill the nibs, as you say.

Have a shufti at the Nisbet's selection https://www.nisbets.co.uk/search?sort=max-price-asc&q=knife+sharpener&show=All&view=list you won't go far wrong with any (and they have a whetstone guide for £5 if that's the way you want to go)

I do wonder how critical the angle is, especially with fairly random kitchen knives from Sainsburys and their ilk.  Some articles seem to suggest that being a few degrees out would be a bad thing, but I suspect it's actually very difficult to achieve anywhere near that accuracy with any tool, which is largely handheld.  Within 5° is probably optimistic. I guess that's why many of the tools designed to allow you to simply pull the knife through, don't tend to be adjustable (or even specify the angle!)  Somewhere near 20° seems to be considered the appropriate angle, for most general kitchen knives.

[rafletcher]

I have a bog standard Jamie Oliver knife block set,

http://www.hartsofstur.com/acatalog/Jamie-Oliver-Five-Piece-Knife-Block-Set-JB7800.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMImf2P-dKa1wIVUYmyCh0Wqw0DEAQYASABEgJvSPD_BwE

And I've got this as a sharpener..

https://www.kitchenknives.co.uk/minosharp-sh220-br-ceramic-shinkansen-sharpener-black-red/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5qzNq9Ka1wIVwsYYCh2-lwkfEAQYAiABEgLVrfD_BwE

[Ham]

I do wonder how critical the angle is, especially with fairly random kitchen knives from Sainsburys and their ilk.  Some articles seem to suggest that being a few degrees out would be a bad thing, but I suspect it's actually very difficult to achieve anywhere near that accuracy with any tool, which is largely handheld.  Within 5° is probably optimistic. I guess that's why many of the tools designed to allow you to simply pull the knife through, don't tend to be adjustable (or even specify the angle!)  Somewhere near 20° seems to be considered the appropriate angle, for most general kitchen knives.

Not at all for most applications. The effective sharpness is a combination of the steel, the angle, the purpose and by a combination of those, how long it keeps its edge. That is (or at least should be) one of the benefits of a good knife. Ultimately perceived sharpness is more about consistency of the edge than anything else.

I'd contend that there is a difference between sharp, effing sharp and razor sharp. I keep all my kitchen knives sharp, it is normally only my santoku and filleting knives that I take the extra trouble with to get to razor sharp. For the rest, a stroke or two on the stone that sits with them in the same block takes them into effing sharp territory where they will cut accurately without effort. I'd reckon a simple guide is going to get to effing sharp, then a stroke or two each time you pick up will keep it there.

[TimO]

I partially followed Ham's advice, and bought the suction cup variant of the Vogue sharpener.  I also bought three Vogue knives, since they seem to get a reasonable number of stars and comments on the commercial websites, where they appear (and I like the style!).  An 8" Chef's Knife, 5.5" Utility Knife, and 3.5" Paring knife.

I was only go to buy two knives, but the paring knife effectively only cost me half the price, since it nudged the delivery into the "Free" category.  I thought I was already there, but their £50 Free delivery limit is for £50 not including VAT, which I guess applies to commercial establishments a lot more than it does to me !

[pcolbeck]

I do wonder how critical the angle is, especially with fairly random kitchen knives from Sainsburys and their ilk.  Some articles seem to suggest that being a few degrees out would be a bad thing, but I suspect it's actually very difficult to achieve anywhere near that accuracy with any tool, which is largely handheld.  Within 5° is probably optimistic. I guess that's why many of the tools designed to allow you to simply pull the knife through, don't tend to be adjustable (or even specify the angle!)  Somewhere near 20° seems to be considered the appropriate angle, for most general kitchen knives.

Not at all for most applications. The effective sharpness is a combination of the steel, the angle, the purpose and by a combination of those, how long it keeps its edge. That is (or at least should be) one of the benefits of a good knife. Ultimately perceived sharpness is more about consistency of the edge than anything else.

I was buying a sharpener in a cook shop today. The sales assistant said that angle is critical in that European and Japanese knives use a very different angle. Since I don't have any Japanese knives he recommended me a couple of sharpeners and I bought this Wusthof sharpener. Will give it a go tonight, given that their knives are very expensive I am assuming its a decent bit of kit. My knives are a right mixture of cheap and middling UK and European stuff, everything from Taylors and Sabatier to Ikea

[Ham]

Trad japanese knives have a chisel grind, flat one side. The more modern ones they tend to be narrower angle than Euro knives, from harder more brittle steel.

A euro grind of 20-25^o results in an overall "wedge" of 40-50^o, whereas a Japanese of 25^o single side or 15^o double would end up with 25 or 30^o

The idea is that euro knives are sharp enough and less prone to damage, Japanese tend to be thinner so in combination with the sharpness cut through easier, but may not be as long lasting in a Euro kitchen. Using the angle from one on the steel of the other would leave you with the worst of both worlds. Sharpening at 20^o when 25^o is the preferred angle is likely to be less worrisome. Apart from the Jap/Euro thing (which is also blurred with recent Euro knife steels) I can't see that you can get it much wrong.

(be interested to hear how both of those sharpeners work - I'm guessing the vogue one will perform pretty much as your Wusthof)

[pcolbeck]

The Wusthof is very good. Mrs Pcolbeck says she doesn't care wether knives are sharp or not but even she was amazed at what it did her favourite knife (an old plastic handled thin bladed thing), it now cuts onions with virtually no pressure and can even do tomatoes where before she had to resort to a serrated blade knife for those.

[Aunt Maud]

I have a 22cm plastic handled forged Vitorianox carver, which I got in Norway in the 90's.

It's got a nice stiff blade, a riveted plastic handle (looks like ebony, but isn't) with three nice rivets and it gets hair-raisingly sharp if I strop it with a bit of compound.

A great knife and indestructible.