Advice on late Autumn European tour

[ExpatYorkshireman]

Hi All

I'm planning on cycling from Athens up to Dubrovnik the last two weeks of October.  Trip all planned and was due to fly back to uk from Dubrovnik...with Monarch!  Now that has gone tits up and given I have another two weeks off work I am wondering if I might try and cycle back instead... prob getting ferry from Zeebrugge.

I haven't done any touring in Europe in November and would be interested to know thoughts on route / weather etc and if it is likely to be worth having a bash?  I'm travelling fairly light and "credit card" touring, comfortable cycling 150km or thereabouts a day.

Richard

[jiberjaber]

Watching with interest as I was contemplating Loire Valley end of Oct/Beginning November - so interested in weather etc.

[Canardly]

Ooooer keep us informed as to how you get on.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

In this area, the Limousin, November is hard to predict since the weather can change very rapidly from warm to cold depending where it's coming from. 

However, this has been a cool damp year and the signs are that winter is coming quite early.  The swallows left long ago and leave fall is well under way.  But I've been around here for 12 years and one year it was warm up until December so you never know!  Still warm enough at the moment, if rather wet today.

If you need a stop-off near Limoges I might be able to help depending when.

[Rod Marton]

I've not toured in November, but plenty in spring/autumn and weather can be unpredictable.

South of the Alps should be fine. In November the high alpine passes begin to close for the winter - and there are plenty of days before then when snow can be a problem. I've been over a high pass in September and had to follow a snow plough. It is doable, but difficult. In November I would be tempted to avoid the mountains and go via Graz.

North of the Alps the weather will become more English, though the roads are cleared and treated with much more efficiency than in England. Again I've toured across Germany with snow on the ground, but the roads were fine.

If you are heading for Zeebrugge you will probably get the worst weather in Belgium. Weather is typically English: the Ardennes are often wet and foggy at the best of times: probably even worse in November. And Flanders can be particularly muddy, again November isn't going to be the best month.

I'm not sure how extreme your credit-card touring is, but I for one would take plenty of warm clothes and waterproofs.

[Karla]

I'd do this.  Ride north from Dubrovnik, turn left at the top of the Adriatic, cross northern Italy staying on the south side of the Alps, drop into Monaco to increment your country count and get the train back from Marseilles or Avignon.  I've taken the TGV up from Marseilles before, it's really easy and takes about three hours to get to Paris, from whence you can get the Eurostar.

[jiberjaber]

I'd do this.  Ride north from Dubrovnik, turn left at the top of the Adriatic, cross northern Italy staying on the south side of the Alps, drop into Monaco to increment your country count and get the train back from Marseilles or Avignon.  I've taken the TGV up from Marseilles before, it's really easy and takes about three hours to get to Paris, from whence you can get the Eurostar.

Does TGV require bike bag and/or disassembly?

[Ham]

Not through any experience, but - dependent on finances - I think I'd take a ferry to Bari and have a leisurely week or so, flying back from, say Catania, flying BA so the bike is in luggage allowance.

[Karla]

I'd do this.  Ride north from Dubrovnik, turn left at the top of the Adriatic, cross northern Italy staying on the south side of the Alps, drop into Monaco to increment your country count and get the train back from Marseilles or Avignon.  I've taken the TGV up from Marseilles before, it's really easy and takes about three hours to get to Paris, from whence you can get the Eurostar.

Does TGV require bike bag and/or disassembly?

Some of them have space for fully assembled bikes - for which, according to the internet, a 10 Euro charge may or may not apply, which you can find out on voyages-sncf.com.  All other trains will take bikes as normal luggage for free if they're disassembled to 120x90cm and bagged.

The train we caught from Marseilles a few years ago didn't have space for assembled bikes and from what I've read online, this still applies.  However, it's really no problem.  We bought a couple of bike rain covers from Decathlon, taped them up and used those - see here.  We just got on with the marginally-bagged bikes, got off again at the other end and nobody bothered us about it - tbh, I think we could have got away with much lesser bags than we actually used. Unlike planes which have baggage handlers, I think the only concern of SNCF is that you don't get oil on their train. 

If you're not skint students like we were at the time, I'd suggest booking a hotel at the end and posting some CTC bags or similar to them ahead of time.

[ExpatYorkshireman]

Thanks for the responses and a few ideas to think about.  I do like the thought of cycling "home" but there would be a lot of Northern Europe cycling and I could imagine it turning into a bit of a slog.  Skirting to the south of the Alps to Marseille would be doable I reckon.  I may hold fire on booking for now and keep an eye on the prevailing weather before I decide!

[yorkie]

If you are travelling before the December timetable change, there is also the option of the Nice to Paris Austerlitz InterCité Nuit overnight couchette train, which calls at the main stations to Marseille-Blancard (note that it doesn't call at the main station in Marseille (St. Charles) as it is a terminus!)

This service takes bikes for the standard  €10 SNCF bike carriage fee, although you do have to travel in the couchette portion and not the seating portion, as the connecting doors between the two parts of the train are kept locked for security reasons!

Sadly, this train will not run after December, as passengers now prefer to use the TGV, or low cost airlines. The portion which runs to Briançon will, I understand, continue to run, as the TGV is not an option - there's not many 300km long 1500V DC extension cables!!

I used the Briançon service in June, and it is a very pleasant way to travel, as long as you avoid Friday and Sunday evening services, which is when most of France seems to travel!

Sent from my Mobile Phone using Tapatalk

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

Thanks for the responses and a few ideas to think about.  I do like the thought of cycling "home" but there would be a lot of Northern Europe cycling and I could imagine it turning into a bit of a slog.  Skirting to the south of the Alps to Marseille would be doable I reckon.  I may hold fire on booking for now and keep an eye on the prevailing weather before I decide!

IME around about Orleans is where there is a kind of 'weathershed' where Northern European weather (and road conditions) kick in.  A friend took the TGV to Lyon to cycle the Alps with me and found it an excellent service (except Eurostar security confiscated his treasured, hand-made camping/cooking knife).  I reckon that's the same service that reached Marseille.

Last time I took a train with a bike in France you had to put the bike on a train 5 days before you yourself travelled*   I guess things have changed a lot since then..

* a kind Frenchman showed me how you could get round the regulation, albeit paying a bit more.

[ExpatYorkshireman]

I like idea of train over plane, but it's the hassle of transferring in London and sorting the Eurostar puts me off.  Hence initial idea of ferry from Zeebrugge to Hull from where I can cycle home....

[Rod Marton]

See if you can get a train to Brugge, or at least to Brussels which has a regular service to Brugge.

[Karla]

Yeah, Eurostar can be a bit of a faff.  I've used them for two trips but the regulations seem to change each time.  It looks like you can currently travel with your bike fully assembled and just hand it to the staff 90 minutes before departure, but availability is limited so you have to book in advance.

You could always just ride Paris-Zeebrugge.  It's less than 400 km so while the weather might be grim, it'll only take two or three days so you won't have too much time to catch a cold!