Cross Training: Rowing

[Jakob]

Cool, thanks!

[Chris S]

BANG BANG BANG!!!

(bangs on door of YACF Dorm)

OI! You Lot! ANYONE AWAKE? Or are we all hibernating?

The Virtual Team Challenge has begun over at Concept II. Are we doing anything this year?

[L CC]

I've not logged any rowing there for yonks.
How does the team challenge thingamajig work?

[Chris S]

Well. You have to be a member of the YACF Virtual Team at Concept.

Our team needs to be entered into the Virtual Team Challenge (This needs to be done by the 15th Jan - others have done it in the past; probably SimonP).

We need to log our rowing exploits using our Concept II online logbooks, and Do Wondrous Things on our Concept IIs in the month of January.

[Manotea]

2012 might be a fallow year for me on the bike so I've decided to log 1Mm by 1st may, starting yesterday.

25x4x10km. Easy.

[L CC]

Jeepers. How on earth do you manage it?
I did my longest ever row today at 30 minutes 5716m.
It's so dull!

I'm taking the training very seriously and tbh, it's appalling how little fitness/strength I have for anything but mashing big gears on a bike.
O well. Onwards and upwards.

[Manotea]

Audiobooks are your friend. I'm on my 30th Terry Pratchett, The Wee Free Men.

I'm around 47 minutes for 10km right now. I've got a lot of work to do to get back to where I was last year, circa (but not quite) 40 minutes.

[Manotea]

Well. You have to be a member of the YACF Virtual Team at Concept.

Our team needs to be entered into the Virtual Team Challenge (This needs to be done by the 15th Jan - others have done it in the past; probably SimonP).

We need to log our rowing exploits using our Concept II online logbooks, and Do Wondrous Things on our Concept IIs in the month of January.

Paging Mr Proven, Paging Mr Proven....

[simonp]

Well. You have to be a member of the YACF Virtual Team at Concept.

Our team needs to be entered into the Virtual Team Challenge (This needs to be done by the 15th Jan - others have done it in the past; probably SimonP).

We need to log our rowing exploits using our Concept II online logbooks, and Do Wondrous Things on our Concept IIs in the month of January.

Paging Mr Proven, Paging Mr Proven....

Is done.

[simonp]

Jeepers. How on earth do you manage it?
I did my longest ever row today at 30 minutes 5716m.
It's so dull!

I'm taking the training very seriously and tbh, it's appalling how little fitness/strength I have for anything but mashing big gears on a bike.
O well. Onwards and upwards.

On the dullness thing, I listen to music to make it less tedious. A 5000m distance is a bit more manageable and the reward is the time taken reduces as you improve.

You’re probably over-using your arms and rowing at too high a stroke rate, just like everyone else who has posted similar messages over the past couple of years. 

I’ve not been on a rowing machine for ages, just too many other things going on. I’ve only had time for five days at work in the past month…

[L CC]

Jeepers. How on earth do you manage it?
I did my longest ever row today at 30 minutes 5716m.
It's so dull!

I'm taking the training very seriously and tbh, it's appalling how little fitness/strength I have for anything but mashing big gears on a bike.
O well. Onwards and upwards.

On the dullness thing, I listen to music to make it less tedious. A 5000m distance is a bit more manageable and the reward is the time taken reduces as you improve.

You’re probably over-using your arms and rowing at too high a stroke rate, just like everyone else who has posted similar messages over the past couple of years. 

I’ve not been on a rowing machine for ages, just too many other things going on. I’ve only had time for five days at work in the past month…

5000m is just under 25 minutes for me.
I listen to music, but there's nothing to look at but the four walls. I get the same on the turbo- I just find it very dull.
My technique isn't that bad at all, (someone else has looked at it critically) I just have absolutely no upper body strength, what with being a very sedentary gurl. I can only lift Chris's 7.5kg kettle thingies about half a dozen times.
When I first started I had fairly crippling DOMS in my shoulders, back and abdomen. I just have no muscle tone/ strength there at all. Rowing still gives me blisters/callouses on my hands and NO I'M NOT GRIPPING THE BAR TOO HARD (I don't 'grip' it at all, it just sits there) but there's an assumption of a basic level of fitness because I'm a cyclist. I'm a big fat soft bundle of lard- I don't have any other fitness, at all, just whopping great leg muscles.
Back when I did a proper job milking cows, I was a different shape, and would probably have made a better rower.
I'm working on the principle that yes, I am an embarrassingly shit rower, but it's burning calories, building muscle, and using somewhat different muscles from cycling, and that's kind of the point of cross training. It's not like I'm ever likely to join a rowing club, race anyone, or need to row my way out of trouble, is it?

I only want it to be less dull so I can keep motivated to keep doing it.

[Chris S]

As far as technique is concerned, you can immediately tell if someone has bothered to learn one!

I got off the rower this morning (at the gym) as someone else was getting started on the next machine. Their technique was dreadful - all arms and thrashing. Consequently, he was working at 35spm for a 2:30 split and clearly working hard (in a frenetic, sweaty kind of way), whereas the display on the machine I'd just vacated showed 21spm for an average 2:14 split for 5K. I'm no rower - all I did was watch a You Tube video and experiment, and got loads of excellent advice here. Of course, you could argue that he was getting the better workout, but TBH he looked like he was going to injure himself.

Fboab used the same video as me - though I haven't seen her row to know if she's picked up any bad habits 

Indoor rowing is dull. If you do it in an empty room at home, even more so. At least I got to watch some people on the treadmills this morning(while I listened to The Subtle Knife audiobook on my MP3 player). And I was still bored enough to give up after 5K rather than do my intended 10K.

Fboab uses a motivational website which channels MTFU soundbites. In response to complaints about dullness, I believe it would say something like - "Hey, you're inside nice and warm and dry - not outside getting wet or breaking bones on the ice. MTFU!" 

[Chris S]

Is done.

Thanks 

[liam_whippet]

Thanks, SimonP. 


I'm in.

5K. 22mins anna bit.

First time on the thing since, er, end of last Jan.   

[essexian]

May I ask a number of stupid questions please....

As a beginner to rowing machines, and not a fit one at that, what sort of targets should I be looking at and are there any websites (apart from this one), I should go to for tips? I am 50 and over 120kg. My cycling fitness is reasonable but I have no real upper body strength.

I have just been to my gym and did 150 stokes covering 1 200 metres in around 6 mins, not really pushing myself that hard (I did stop to shoo away one of my cats). How long should my stroke be? Is 8 metres per pull about right? And how do I use my legs more? (I seem to slide without a major effort). Finally, is 3mins to 3.30m about right for 1km as a stroke rate or should I aim for faster?

[rower40]

Concept II machines are the work of Stan.  But people seem to prefer them to actually getting out on the water and learning what makes a boat move.

The rowing standard unit is minutes/500m; the ergo's main display should be set to show this as the big figure in the middle.  It's often referred to as the "split time" - i.e. how long it would take you, at your current pace, to cover 1/4 of an Olympic Regatta course (2km).  2m30 (i.e. the split required to cover 1200m in 6mins) is doing well for a n00b of the physiology you describe.

Points to note:
1) Set the resistance to 3 out of 10.  High resistance leads to a heavy pick-up on the catch; heavy pick-up leads to back injury, back injury leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to the dark side...
2) Hands Body Slide.  I can't stress this enough.  On the way forward, hold the legs straight until your hands are beyond your knees.  Don't lunge at the catch.
3) At the catch, your shins should be vertical.  Too much body-lean means you can't get your bum up the slide enough.
4) Pivotting the body from the hips, it leans only 10 degrees forward of vertical to 10 degrees behind vertical.  Use a mirror to check what it looks like.
5) Twice as long on the way forward as on the way back.  I.e. don't rush UP the slide.  Rating 20 means 1 stroke every 3 seconds, of which 1 second is the power phase, and 2 seconds are the recovery.
6) Don't STOP at the end of the power phase.  Keep the hands moving in a circular motion, and throw them away from the body in preparation for the recovery up the slide.

Stroke rate is strokes-per-minute.  Top right figure on the Concept II display; should be somewhere between 20-30 strokes per min.  30 for a short sprint, 20 for a long burn.

(Sorry, a bit of a ramble there.  Without seeing video of your ergo technique, I can't really comment!  Get yourself to your local Rowing Club for some expert coaching.  DON'T assume someone working for a gym knows the first thing about how to use a rowing machine.)

[Chris S]

May I ask a number of stupid questions please....

As a beginner to rowing machines, and not a fit one at that, what sort of targets should I be looking at and are there any websites (apart from this one), I should go to for tips? I am 50 and over 120kg. My cycling fitness is reasonable but I have no real upper body strength.

I have just been to my gym and did 150 stokes covering 1 200 metres in around 6 mins, not really pushing myself that hard (I did stop to shoo away one of my cats). How long should my stroke be? Is 8 metres per pull about right? And how do I use my legs more? (I seem to slide without a major effort). Finally, is 3mins to 3.30m about right for 1km as a stroke rate or should I aim for faster?

Rower40's answer is feature rich.

I'll add my 1/2p which is a reference to where I posted a short fillum of me on my Concept II Work of Stan Machine.

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=23807.msg789325#msg789325

My technique seems largely in keeping with Rower40's suggestions.

[L CC]

I'm younger, lighter, and weaker than you, essexian, and I do 28spm @ 2.20-2.30 split. Ish. For 5000m. I make a conscious effort to slow down the return, and overall it's faster.

But- I am rubbish! and- it's very dull, even with the audiobooks I'm counting down the minutes of tedious suffering.

[Marco Stefano]

May I ask a number of stupid questions please....

As a beginner to rowing machines, and not a fit one at that, what sort of targets should I be looking at and are there any websites (apart from this one), I should go to for tips? I am 50 and over 120kg. My cycling fitness is reasonable but I have no real upper body strength.

I have just been to my gym and did 150 stokes covering 1 200 metres in around 6 mins, not really pushing myself that hard (I did stop to shoo away one of my cats). How long should my stroke be? Is 8 metres per pull about right? And how do I use my legs more? (I seem to slide without a major effort). Finally, is 3mins to 3.30m about right for 1km as a stroke rate or should I aim for faster?

Not that much upper body strength needed - rowing is a pushing sport & most of the power comes from leg drive. Follow rower40's good advice; I would add slow down a bit, i.e. less strokes per minute (22-26) & give yourself more time to think about the stroke, it will help in the long run. I won't comment on your split times as I don't know how fit you are, but start easy and build it up slowly over time as you get stronger.

Push with legs (squeeze power on, don't stomp), connect legs with handle through the trunk, open the back smoothly from about halfway through the stroke, finish with arms (think about steady acceleration of the handle throughout the stroke - this will feel like steady pressure in your fingers). Grip securely with wrists & backs of hands flat, but keep relaxed, particularly on the recovery (coming forward), you will need this as you get faster.

The UK Concept 2 website has a forum at  http://concept2.co.uk/forum/  with all sorts of stuff on it. Hope you enjoy it.

[essexian]

Many thanks for the advice and the links.

I tend, it seems, to you my arms more than I should during the pull: my legs don't seem to get that much of a work out compared to my arms. Perhaps I should change the angle of the seat so I am pushing a little more uphill (not sure if I can but perhaps a book under the legs might work?)

Oh, I have a York Magair 300 rower. I know its not as good as the Concept Machines but I brought it for £30 off ebay new from a bloke who had brought it, used it once and hated it.... got my treat mill and multigym the same way!

Thanks again.

[L CC]

My PB on the rower is improving every time at the moment.

I'm now above the 50th percentile¹ (and, tbh, quite chuffed).

I think it's circuit training- doing wonders for my upper body strength, building it faster than the rowing alone does. I'm also focusing more on the breathing- out on the pull, and in on the return. I'm finding it less tedious, too, by being very mindful while I'm doing it.


1:For Heavyweight Over 40 wimmin.

[L CC]

No, me neither, but I should get 3 x 5km in per week over that time.

[simonp]

Any action required from me?

[simonp]

I'll have a look later. I'm not going to be able to contribute any metres at all having neither the time nor a gym membership ATM.

[Feline]

I'll have a look later. I'm not going to be able to contribute any metres at all having neither the time nor a gym membership ATM.

Your gym-inna-garage awaits you