Darksiders: How long is yours?

[Kim]

I've been contacted locally by someone getting a few cyclists together with bikes to provide feedback on the proposed bike spaces design^[1] of the IEP trains (for which there is apparently a mock-up in a shed at Warwick).  I've agreed to go down with my Streetmachine as a token SWB recumbent and see how well it fits, but I'm aware that it's probably a bit shorter than a lot of other bikes (if only because I have the boom at about -10mm extension).

So, I'd appreciate anyone with a couple of minutes and tape measure who could let me know what the overall length of your bike is (rear mudguard light to chainring guard distance, assuming that either are fitted), so I can make intelligent comments like "Mine fits, but most people's 'bents are about 20cm longer, and really tall people might need up to x, so it would be better if this rail wasn't here...".  TBH, if EdinburghFixed felt like quoting the width of his famous wall, that would probably be plenty to go on for these purposes.

My USS bars are ~600mm wide (which is typical for a flat-barred bike).  I assume that open cockpit bars aren't usually any wider, but would be useful to know if I'm wrong.

Naturally I'll be talking trikes too, and laying on the disability aspect of cycling with a shovel, but the physical requirements for getting them on a train are less ambiguous.


_{[1] ETA:  I've just had it confirmed that it's a dangly bike space design.} 

[Quint]

Brilliant Kim, our ICE 26" Sprint measures 31 inches width by 75 inches in length I am 5ft7" Barbara is 2 inches more perfect (shorter) 
      The possibility of taking our trikes on a train would be excellent.

                                                         

[Kim]

Brilliant Kim, our ICE 26" Sprint measures 31 inches width by 75 inches in length I am 5ft7" Barbara is 2 inches more perfect (shorter) 

Thanks for that.  Unsurprisingly, a bit longer than barakta's Sprint RS.  It's bicycles I'm more interested in.

The possibility of taking our trikes on a train would be excellent.

I wouldn't hold your breath for a policy change (they are after all quite awkward, especially when folded), but I'll be arguing that they should at least consider people who use them (including handcycles) as mobility aids.


I'm just hoping it won't be dangly bike spaces.  Work of Stan that they are.

[graculus]

A colleague of mine, not OTP, has asked to borrow my ICE B1 to take down. He is about 6'4" so that should go some way to checking out that particular parameter. Please put in a request for quantity as well as quality - as I'm sure you would anyway.

[matthew]

I wouldn't hold your breath for a policy change (they are after all quite awkward, especially when folded), but I'll be arguing that they should at least consider people who use them (including handcycles) as mobility aids.


I'm just hoping it won't be dangly bike spaces.  Work of Stan that they are.

Unfortunately I resemble that remark at the moment, my normal bike gets walked down station platforms with my right hand as the left is occupied by the walking stick. platform access then becomes the key issue, I have had to change my destination station for my commute due to have no confidence I should regularly carry my bike up and down the stairs to the platform.

[Kim]

Platform access is at least covered by the Equality Act in a way that the trains themselves aren't, which is why (with plenty of frustrating exceptions) it's generally better, or at least slowly improving.

I avoid carrying anything heavy down stairs for knee reasons, and will use level access where possible if I have a bike.  TBH, I don't think carrying cycles on stairs is a particularly safe thing to do in a public place anyway.

[Beardy]

Hi Kim,
My Grasshopper is about 182cm chain ring to back mudguard with an axle to axle distance of about 100cm. USS handlebars are 65cm (ish) I'm a six footer

[Cudzoziemiec]

No dimensions to give, but I see these trains are to replace the really rather wonderful HSTs on the GWR, so I'd be interested to know what they do look like - bike-wise and generally passenger-terms.

[Wobbly John]

M5 CityMate CLWB =1800 mm ish
2 x 4 Lowracer = 2130mm ish

 

[Blade]

My EZ Clone is a whopping 8 foot long (2463 m.m.)

[Arellcat]

Thanks for helping out, Kim.  I think Dave will be grateful for all the input.  I was at Laid Back Bikes a while ago measuring the lengths of bikes, with IEP specifically in mind because I am deeply suspicious that they will in fact be hanging bike spaces.  I measured all three major dimensions because bike height matters when you turn it vertical, if you don't want rush hour train passengers bashing your carefully aimed mirrors as they pass.

Nazca Fuego (20/26 quasi-lowracer): length 2080mm, width 533mm, height 890mm.
Bacchetta Giro 20 (20/26 stick bike): length 1830mm, width 610mm, height 1145mm.
HPV Spirit (16/20 CLWB): length 1800mm, width 660mm, height 1245mm.

Circe Helios tandem (20/20): length 2160mm, width 585mm, height 1070mm (but obv. varies according to seat height)

Off to measure a Lightning, which generally copes well with hanging bike spaces, and a RANS, which doesn't cope with trains at all…

Lightning P-38 (20/700c): length 1880mm, width 500mm, height 1260mm (or 1150mm if I fold the mirrors down, which I always do if it's hanging)
RANS V2 F26 (26/26 LWB): length 2440mm, width 730mm, height 1230mm

For comparison, the Quest is 2880mm long.  Edit: I forgot to mention, for what it's worth, that both my Lightning and RANS have XL frames; a S or XS P-38 is a remarkably little bike.

[Kim]

Excellent stuff!

Hanging bike spaces are evil.  Not so much because they aren't a good way of transporting bikes (even 'bents, with sufficient clearance, will usually hang quite well by the rear wheel), but that they're an extremely ablist, heightist and by implication sexist and ageist way of providing such a facility to the general public.  It's neither a practical nor a safe proposition to a significant minority of the population.

[The Seldom Killer]

Mrs SK has skived off to Norfolk with the tape measure so can't give accurate measurements just now. Challenge Fujin at least 6ft though, probably in the region of 6'6. Width is narrow due to hamster bars.

Went on an East Midlands train a while back and the only option for storage was to put the front end through the cut out and effectively hang everything on the pedal while the rest sat diagonally across the storage space. Couldn't have got anything else in there. Pretty ridiculous storage system, even for DF's. Did a quick bit of calculation and reckoned that you could reconfigure the foyer space, including luggage space. You'd end up with space for easier and larger bike storage, the same luggage space, including ground level access and add in two more seats. All without compromising the structure of the space or moving any mechanical/electrical parts.

[Tigerbiten]

I've just measured my rig.
The Sprint FS+ is 2050mm long by 800mm wide by 800mm high. the reason for the extra length is due to the fact I've a hard shell seat set in it's lowest position, this pulls the back boom out by about 150mm.
Now add a meter for the trailer on the back and the total length of my rig is 3050mm long.

[Kim]

I've just measured my rig.
The Sprint FS+ is 2050mm long by 800mm wide by 800mm high. the reason for the extra length is due to the fact I've a hard shell seat set in it's lowest position, this pulls the back boom out by about 150mm.
Now add a meter for the trailer on the back and the total length of my rig is 3050mm long.

Best approach to that is just to take the tyres off, extend the track width a bit and couple it to the back of the train 

[cycleman]

Might be more comfy 

[Von Broad]

My SWB homebuild is 2100mm

Might be worth adding that's purpose built for a rider of about 6ft 4", so not obviously longer than other bikes people have listed.

[mzjo]

I will measure the Dino tomorrow to give you a lwb bike comparison but I don't think it is significantly longer than others already quoted. Mind, since I am in France and unlikely to cross the ditch with it this is a bit irrelevant.

[henshaw11]

Rats ! - meant to measure the USS Speedmachine last night..ISTR it's a well-hung gnat's c*ck under the maximum length Eurostar specify, but they appear to have changed their regulations (2m?). I'll try to remember to check tonight..

<edit> it's 1.95m from the front of the chain guard to the back of the rear wheel - the back of the rack + rearwards extended light/bracket and plastic extension of the sks mudguards are all within that. I'm about 5'9". Width of uss bars to outside edges is just under 0.6m .

[mzjo]

Finally got round to measuring the Dino this evening after another weekend spent pxxxing about with a non-functionning car. As I thought, much the same length as most of the others - 2m250. I didn't measure the width but the bars are wider than the seat so must be 55-60cm. Odd that a LWB should be the same length as the SWB in spite of having the bb well behind the front wheel.

[Tigerbiten]

Odd that a LWB should be the same length as the SWB in spite of having the bb well behind the front wheel.

Your seat is much more upright so it takes up less room on the boom.
This counters the fact you have so much in-front of the BB.

[Kim]

For reference, here's my list:

Code: [Select]

Cycle Geometry Width Height Length

Hase Kettwiesel Delta 860 800 1600-2050
HPV Spirit CLWB 660 1245 1800
M5 CityMate CLWB 1800
HPV Grasshopper SWB 650 1820
Bachetta Giro 20 SWB 610 1145 1830
Challenge Concept               Tadpole                 800             760             1850
Lightning P-38 (XL) SWB 500 1260 1880
HPV Streetmachine SWB 600 1100 1900
ICE Sprint RS Tadpole 800 1900
ICE Sprint 26 Tadpole 800 1900
HPV Speedmachine SWB 600 1950
Challenge Fujin SWB ~1980
Sprint FS (hardshell seat) Tadpole 800 800 2050
Nazca Fuego SWB 533 890 2080
DIY SWB SWB 2100
Optima Baron (low)              SWB                                                     ~2100
Hase Pino Mixed Tandem 640 110 2100-2370
DIY wooden lowracer SWB 2130
Circe Helios Upright Tandem 585 1070 2160
Radius Dino LWB 2250
RANS V2 F26 (XL) LWB 730 1230 2440
EZ Clone LWB 2463


ICE Sprint Folded 800 495 1041
Quick fold 800 ~1200

Will report back on the IEP tomorrow...

[Kim]

Will report back on the IEP tomorrow...

So, we've been asked to keep it all ^_SEEKRIT, and in the interest of future cooperation between train molishers and cyclists, I won't be spilling the beans.  Lots of issues were raised, and I think we managed to communicate that cycle provision is as much about policy and procedures as physical design, and they seemed receptive to the idea that some people use cycles as mobility aids.

I'll leave it at: Dangly bike spaces; marginally better than those on a Class 220 Voyager; some minor improvements to be made on the basis of our feedback.  Can't be a non-dangly design, as there's a lot of important bits of train in the way.  Rest of the train looks pretty good re luggage, disabled access and so on.  If the design doesn't change, recumbents of less than 2m in length should fit with a bit of handlebar tetris.  Some potential for wedging tandems in, if you're tall and not averse to removing wheels.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Dangly bike spaces: approved by the Cycle Touring Commission of the International Touring Alliance since at least 1955. On rubber hooks and in a dedicated waggon, mind.
http://youtu.be/QPkT0paGEnQ

At 1:15.

[Kim]

If they came in a dedicated wagon with plenty of space, staff overseeing the loading and unloading, and room to bung unconventional cycles at floor level when needed, they wouldn't be a problem.