Author Topic: Rugby World Cup 2015  (Read 28638 times)

Steph

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #50 on: 21 September, 2015, 02:16:45 am »
Yawn. Sod off Torygraph.
Mae angen arnaf i byw, a fe fydda'i

Psychler

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #51 on: 21 September, 2015, 02:54:50 am »
Yawn. Sod off Torygraph.

Oliver Brown is a sports writer, I have no idea about his politics, I couldn't give a shit about his politics.  A quick google shows that he also writes for the Sydney Morning Herald, the Vancouver Sun, the National Post, the New Zealand Herald, the Brisbane Times, The Province and The Times South Africa. I have no idea what way these papers lean!  And I couldn't give a fuck! 

I'm talking sport - not politics. 

The article, if you haven't read it, to some extent presents a counter argument to Tewdric's points!
I'm gonna limp to the pub and drink 'til the rest of me is as numb as my arse.

Riggers

  • Mine's a pipe, er… pint!
Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #52 on: 21 September, 2015, 09:10:50 am »
Gentleman. I had the privilege of being at the match between South Africa and Japan. I don't really need to say "What a match!" But I will … "What a match!" Everyone thought, "How much can South Africa win by?" but the Japanese played a blinder.

I was also there to hear my wife sing the national anthems, as she and the rest of her choir were invited to sing them for both matches; this and the USA v Somoa.

Six lines for the Japan national anthem, but here's a flavour of South Africa:

Nko si si ke le li A-fri-ka
Ma lu pa ka nyi swu pon dol wa yo
Yi zwa i mi than da zo ye thu
Nko si si ke le la
Thi na lu sa po lwa yo.

Mo re na bo lo ka se tjha ba sa je so
O fe di se din twa les ma tshwe nye ho

The words were broken down for them to (supposedly) make it easier to learn!!
Certainly never seen cycling south of Sussex

Psychler

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #53 on: 21 September, 2015, 09:15:56 am »
I'm jealous.  As you say, what a match!
I'm gonna limp to the pub and drink 'til the rest of me is as numb as my arse.

Wowbagger

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #54 on: 21 September, 2015, 12:49:49 pm »
I used to read the Telegraph regularly. My dad used to buy it, despite hating its politics, because it was cheap and had the most comprehensive sports coverage. There used to be a correspondent calle John Reason, who always seemed to be very anti-Welsh. Mind you, that was in the Edwards/JPR era so almost everyone was who wasn't Welsh themselves.

FWIW I was nattering to the Telegraph's chess correspondent recently. He is a card-carrying member of the Labour Party and went out on the campaign trail for the General Election. He didn't want Corbyn to win.

Back to the rugby!
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TimC

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #55 on: 21 September, 2015, 01:03:00 pm »
Anyone who feels that Wales playing all their pool matches at the Millenium Stadium would not give them a home advantage is either lying or daft! And I can't see how on earth it can be justified - this isn't a World Cup hosted by Wales, or even England AND Wales. It's England only.  There should be no matches in Wales whatsoever, no matter how glorious the MS is. Just like there should be (and are) none in the Stadt de France.

mattc

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #56 on: 21 September, 2015, 01:03:25 pm »
Because it's the best rugby stadium in the world and its inclusion was a cornerstone of the English bid.  The WRU agreed to its use provided the English organisers agreed to Wales playing all their pool games in Cardiff - this would have brought big revenue To benefit everyone.  Then England,Wales and Australia got drawn in the same pool and suddenly Wales weren't allowed to play their major pool games in Cardiff any more.  It revealed a lack of integrity, cowardice and the familiar arrogance on the part of the English organisers. 

Hopefully karma will prevail.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/11878660/Rugby-World-Cup-2015-The-Millennium-Stadium-is-a-glorious-stage-but-Welsh-home-advantage-is-unfair.html
I cant see much wrong with that analysis. wales are not the hosts, but are getting home advantage.

It would seem a massive shame to not use Cardiff, but I expect other non-host sides would say something similar about their home grounds!
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #57 on: 21 September, 2015, 01:11:20 pm »
Anyone who feels that Wales playing all their pool matches at the Millenium Stadium would not give them a home advantage is either lying or daft! And I can't see how on earth it can be justified - this isn't a World Cup hosted by Wales, or even England AND Wales. It's England only.  There should be no matches in Wales whatsoever, no matter how glorious the MS is. Just like there should be (and are) none in the Stadt de France.
It could be critical too, if the battle for Gp A 2nd place is between England and Wales, which goes down to the wire with pts diffs/numbers of tries taken into account... etc
Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

Riggers

  • Mine's a pipe, er… pint!
Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #58 on: 21 September, 2015, 01:37:52 pm »
Boys, boys, boys!

Now then. For anyone interested in singing along with my baby girl, and the other 29,000 + at the Amex Stadium on Saturday, here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ6PO5leJOQ
Certainly never seen cycling south of Sussex

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #59 on: 21 September, 2015, 02:29:40 pm »
Well, we just about survived the opening weekend - sorry to hear about the poor chap who fell onto the tracks at the station.

We went to the fanzone on Friday night, down in the deer park and it was great fun (neither of us are big rugby fans and this would be the first time in my life I have ever watched more than a couple of minutes of it on the telly).

The fanzone has a capacity of around 10000 with a little under half of that being in a massive marquee - big screens inside and outside, food stalls, bars, fairground rides for children, a few corporate stands etc. Noticeably little from the rugby people - stuff to get kids playing etc.

The idea is to take some pressure off Twickenham's pubs on the way to the stadium from Richmond and then give non ticket holders and locals a place to watch games etc.

It was good fun and highly recommended for anyone in SW london who wants to watch a match with a good atmosphere etc. Lots of singing and cheering and a properly lively feel to it all.  Twickenham itself was brilliant on Friday night and bands etc. in the pubs made for a great start to the competition.

Interestingly, today we got leaflets through the door about the annual rugby sevens thing which has been the source of much friction with the locals as it attracts a very different crowd to internationals etc. with it's fancy dress themes etc.  The capacity has been slashed to 35000 (with 5000 more tickets for locals), no fancy dress, very limited bar times etc.  The person falling from the stadium this year probably didn't help their cause either.  The leaflet suggests a rebranding as a family day out is also underway.  It had gotten out of control it seems.

Anyway - another 9 weeks or whatever to go and it's all good fun so far.  We will go to the fanzone again for the matches when Ireland progress to the latter stages and I have to flip allegiance to Mrs. JB's nation (well she's USanian, but we were amazed to hear they had even heard of rugby, let alone had a team in this competition, so she's sticking with her roots and supporting Ireland).  From what we understand, we probably won't have to make that commitment for England!  We will also make use of the local pub entertainment and food offerings - paella bars seem to be the big deal this year, along with the usual hog roasts etc.

All good fun - apart from the falling in front of a train thing of course.
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #60 on: 21 September, 2015, 09:59:23 pm »
This bonus points mallarkey is new to me.

It was new to Billie Vunipola as well.  Apparently he had no idea his try was worth an extra point.
If that is so, then that's shamefully poor team preparation.
Quote

I thought the super-slo-mo of the disallowed Fiji Try was amazing.  Watching Mike Brown's last-ditch grab, that just dislodged the ball, showed what an incredible all-round asset he is.

There are some seriously big feckers in the game now aren't there?  The Fiji #11 was bloody enormous.  What's more they are huge without the Beer guts of old.  Not so sure I fancy getting hit by 19 stone travelling only slightly slower than Usain Bolt.

I'm pretty sure we have discussed this at some length. The combined increase in size and speed of the modern players, as well as the greater number of international matches, will lead to many careers cut short by injury and some seriously crocked middle-aged men when they retire.

A young Bille Vunipola and his team mates (none of whom looked forward to tackling practice I imagine).



Hard not to be reminded of Jonah Lomu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPMZrPjW5cs

I think this is the point I realised the game had changed, when someone that big could run the 100m in <11 seconds.
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #61 on: 21 September, 2015, 10:10:54 pm »
Billy V is the same height (188cm) as me, but 126kg - so that's an extra 50kg of probably mostly muscle...
Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

Jaded

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #62 on: 21 September, 2015, 10:12:46 pm »
There used to be a correspondent calle John Reason, who always seemed to be very anti-Welsh. Mind you, that was in the Edwards/JPR era so almost everyone was who wasn't Welsh themselves.

I call tedious bigotry on that one.

Watched Wales several times in that era and there was full and proper respect for what was an outstanding rugby team.
It is simpler than it looks.

LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #63 on: 21 September, 2015, 10:15:16 pm »
Billy V is the same height (188cm) as me, but 126kg - so that's an extra 50kg of probably mostly muscle...

Uini Atonio is 198cm and 152kg



Best just to let him carry on and not get in his way
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

Psychler

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #64 on: 21 September, 2015, 10:45:08 pm »
From Rugby Onslaught:-

Quote
The prevailing narrative surrounding the size of professional rugby players is one of ever increasing mass.

It was with this in mind that Rugby Onslaught went about comparing England's 2003 World Cup winnng side with today's crop of players heading into the 2015 tournament.

And then something very odd started happening.

The 2003 team seemed to be heavier.

The maths weren't lying either. The 2003 weighed a total of 1537.2kg or 102.4kg per man - 4kgs heavier than the 2015 team that played Ireland, who weighed in at a total of 1533kg or 102.2kg a man - roughly 200g per man lighter than their 2003 predecessors.

The 2003 pack weighed an average of 111.3kg (17st7Ib), which was slightly lighter than the 112.1kg (17st9Ibs) pack of the 20015 side.

The only area of the modern team consistently heavier than the 2003 team was the backrow, where the 2003 gave away a total of  25kg to their modern day equivalents.

PS: So after 12 years, the England team have not gained in mass, despite a groundswell of opinion that would suggest otherwise. Yes, it's a comparison between a relatively small cross section of players, but interesting none-the-less.

Loosehead:
2003: Trevor Woodman 111kg
2015: Joe Marler 117kg
Hooker:
2003: Steve Thompson 118kg
2015: Tom Youngs 101kg
Tighthead:
2003: Phil Vickery: 125kg
2015: Dan Cole: 118kg
Loosehead secondrow:
2003: Martin Johnson: 118kg
2015: Geoff Parling: 117kg
Tighthead secondrow:
2003: Ben Kay: 112kg
2015: Courtney Lawes: 111kg
Blindside:
2003: Richard Hill 102kg
2015: Tom Wood 107kg
Openside:
2003: Neil Back 93kg
2015: Chris Robshaw 109kg
Number 8:
2003: Lawrence Dallaglio 112kg
2015: Ben Morgan 116kg
Scrumhalf:
2003: Matt Dawson 83.2kg
2015: Ben Youngs 92kg
Outhalf:
2003: Jonny Wilkinson 89kg
2015: George Ford 84kg
Left wing:
2003: Ben Cohen 103kg
2015: Jonny May 90kg
Inside centre:
2003: Mike Tindall 102kg
2015: Brad Barritt 96kg
Outside centre:
2003: Will Greenwood 100kg
2015: Jonathan Joseph 90kg
Right wing:
2003: Jason Robinson 82kg
2015: Anthony Watson 93kg
Fullback:
2003: Josh Lewsey 87kg
2015: Mike Brown 92kg

Probably more accurate if you ignore the diferences between Chris Robshaw / Neil Back and Anthony Watson / Jason Robinson.  Robshaw and Watson are not huge individuals but Back and Robinson were short arses in their position even for that time.
 
I read somewhere else [I can't remember where] that the increase in bulk increased drastically in the years initially following the game going professional but is now slowing down. 
I'm gonna limp to the pub and drink 'til the rest of me is as numb as my arse.

Jaded

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  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #65 on: 21 September, 2015, 11:20:39 pm »
I read somewhere else [I can't remember where] that the increase in bulk increased drastically in the years initially following the game going professional but is now slowing down.

Yes, I've read that too over the last couple of days.
It is simpler than it looks.

Wowbagger

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #66 on: 21 September, 2015, 11:22:35 pm »
There used to be a correspondent calle John Reason, who always seemed to be very anti-Welsh. Mind you, that was in the Edwards/JPR era so almost everyone was who wasn't Welsh themselves.

I call tedious bigotry on that one.

Watched Wales several times in that era and there was full and proper respect for what was an outstanding rugby team.

Well, I call one-eyed twattery.

I recall, with great amusement, the BBC lining up in the studio the entire England team that had last won in Cardiff before 26 (or something) years without an England wins. Must have been about 1987 or 89. Can't remember ('89, on checking the results). They were itching for an England win which is bloody poor from the British Broadcasting Corporation. I think England were after the grand slam as well. The two Roberts, Norster and Jones, played them out of the game. Hoist, petard.
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Jaded

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #67 on: 22 September, 2015, 12:18:32 am »
There used to be a correspondent calle John Reason, who always seemed to be very anti-Welsh. Mind you, that was in the Edwards/JPR era so almost everyone was who wasn't Welsh themselves.

I call tedious bigotry on that one.

Watched Wales several times in that era and there was full and proper respect for what was an outstanding rugby team.

Well, I call one-eyed twattery.

I recall, with great amusement, the BBC lining up in the studio the entire England team that had last won in Cardiff before 26 (or something) years without an England wins. Must have been about 1987 or 89. Can't remember ('89, on checking the results). They were itching for an England win which is bloody poor from the British Broadcasting Corporation. I think England were after the grand slam as well. The two Roberts, Norster and Jones, played them out of the game. Hoist, petard.

You probably do recall, with great amusement.

Tedious bigotry.

(Wales will probably beat England. That will be fun!)
It is simpler than it looks.

Psychler

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #68 on: 22 September, 2015, 03:23:10 am »
There used to be a correspondent calle John Reason, who always seemed to be very anti-Welsh. Mind you, that was in the Edwards/JPR era so almost everyone was who wasn't Welsh themselves.

I call tedious bigotry on that one.

Watched Wales several times in that era and there was full and proper respect for what was an outstanding rugby team.

Well, I call one-eyed twattery.

I recall, with great amusement, the BBC lining up in the studio the entire England team that had last won in Cardiff before 26 (or something) years without an England wins. Must have been about 1987 or 89. Can't remember ('89, on checking the results). They were itching for an England win which is bloody poor from the British Broadcasting Corporation. I think England were after the grand slam as well. The two Roberts, Norster and Jones, played them out of the game. Hoist, petard.


Well, trying to avoid being a bigot or a twat [but perhaps a bit pedantic and with a definate pro-England stance], in my mind the "Edwards/JPR" era must have ran from 1967 [Edwards' first cap] to 1981 [JPR's last cap].  Comparatively, the 80's was a relatively poor period for Welsh rugby, although they continued to do reasonably well against England [their biggest win being by 13 points in 1987].  Throughout the 80's Wales won seven games to England's three with one draw.

So, due to the apparently incredible efforts of second row and scrum half, in 1989 Wales beat England by 3 points.  However, in 1990 England beat Wales by 34-6, in 1991 25-6, in 1992 24-0.  Wales won again by a point in 1993 and since then England have won nineteen games to Wales' eight.  So the England team's revival story as presented by the BBC was perhaps a year later than scheduled but being hoisted on their own petard has probably helped raise England to a much higher altitude, including winning the World Cup.

I'm guessing that BBC Wales wasn't available in Southend in 1989!  I wonder what their version of the story was!

On the subject of bias pro/con England/Wales,  - the 24th Regiment of Foot that fought at the Battle of Rorke's Drift was an English Regiment.  It's proper title was the 24th (The 2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot. The highest proportion of nationalities in the regiment were English and it didn't become the South Wales Borderers until 1881. Proud Welsh man Stanley Baker would have it that they sang "Men of Harlech" as portrayed in the film "Zulu" but ..... what you see on a screen isn't neccessarily the truth, it didn't happen, but it makes a good story!.

So back to the BBC in 1989, perhaps they were working on a good story ["England win after 26[?] years....."] etc but in that year it was not to be!

On a different tack, I was in Harrogate back in the summer and chatting to the bar maid in the hotel: It turned out that her ex-husband, a Welsh man, was in the South Wales Borderers and his surname was Chard.  His distant ancestor was Lt John Chard [an Englishman] who commanded at Rorke's Drift.  I got up a photo of Lt Chard on my phone from Wikipedia and we compared it to a photo she had of her ex and her son.  The likeness was incredible!

Anyway, my ramblings over, back to rugby!  COME ON ENGLAND!!!
I'm gonna limp to the pub and drink 'til the rest of me is as numb as my arse.

Jaded

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  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #69 on: 22 September, 2015, 08:15:17 am »
First of all, though - come on Scotland!

Although it does seem a bit unfair on the Japanese that they have four days to recover after a very tough match whilst the Scots have it as their first match. We applied for tickets for this match, but didn't get them. Probably just as well as we wouldn't have been able to go anyway, with work commitments getting in the way.
It is simpler than it looks.

Psychler

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #70 on: 22 September, 2015, 12:35:33 pm »
One things certain, Scotland won't take the Japanese lightly.

Somehow, I can't see the Japs repeating their stunning victory but you never know.
I'm gonna limp to the pub and drink 'til the rest of me is as numb as my arse.

mattc

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #71 on: 22 September, 2015, 01:04:25 pm »
Although it does seem a bit unfair on the Japanese that they have four days to recover after a very tough match whilst the Scots have it as their first match.
I presume this is inevitable with 5-team groups?

I also suspect JPvsSCO is quite a close match just in world ranking terms - arent they roughly 3 spots apart? It should certainly be the top game of early Wednesday afternoon!
Has never ridden RAAM
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Psychler

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #72 on: 22 September, 2015, 01:48:56 pm »
Just looked at the IRB rankings, Japan have just gone up from 13th to 11th, Scotland have dropped from 10th to 12th. 

So Japan are the favourites!

South Africa have dropped from 3rd to 6th and Georgia have overtaken Italy. 

http://www.worldrugby.org/rankings
I'm gonna limp to the pub and drink 'til the rest of me is as numb as my arse.

Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #73 on: 22 September, 2015, 02:27:46 pm »
First of all, though - come on Scotland!
I'm cheering on Japan, in honour of Mrs B.
日本, 日本!
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Psychler

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #74 on: 22 September, 2015, 02:47:31 pm »
日本, 日本!

That's easy for you to say!
I'm gonna limp to the pub and drink 'til the rest of me is as numb as my arse.