I hope we don't make this TOO big an issue.
My initial reaction was dismay, but I doubt that more than 2 or 3 riders will use EAPC's over the next year and I'd rather include rather than exclude them.
No big deal
I'm curious to know what Audax means to others (including non members who can't access the Audax Forum). To me it is/was a celebration of human powered achievement - if it's not that then what is it? It's proving a big issue for me to adjust my perception.
Maybe that's the point. To you, it's that. To others - it probably means something else. For example, I always thought Audax encompassed rides that are audacious. To some, that means riding a lot of hills. To others, it might mean getting out on your bike with others even though that's a really hard thing to do for some reason, and if EAPCs aid in that, then perhaps it's a good thing?
Maybe that's the point. To you, it's that. To others - it probably means something else.
But the modern generation has spent a lifetime being delivered effortlessly to their destination by motor vehicles and it seems that 77% of Audax members think that it's time to start modernising Audax rides to allow Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles (EAPC).
Anybody want to rack up AAA points with 500 extra Watts of assistance and 20 mph road speeds? All it takes is the desire to do so.
Maybe this is a direct consequence of the (deliberate) lack of a competitive element.
Maybe people (the people who voted in favour) think - becaue it's not competitive I'm not affecting anybody else ['s chances of winning anything] by having an electric bike, so why do they have a right to care whether I ride one?
Perhaps we need competition if for no other reason as a justification to enforce what we see as a level playing field.
But why do we need a level playing field if we're not 'playing' anything....
So if AUK is getting rid of all competitive elements are they going to get rid of points, results tables, controls, awards, trophy's? I'll still enjoy riding my bike without those things, but I can do that without AUK membership and without paying entry fees for rides.Aside from controls and awards, which aren't competitive, I believe they're trying to.
some people like to sleep on bags of charcoal on garage forecourts and eat cat shit and gravel for breakfast.
I have absolutely no problem with folk riding electric bikes for an Audax but getting homologated is absurd. Audax UK is the only randonneur organisation in the world to equate riding by human power alone with power-assisted riding.
Some people like a bag drop or a hotel stay and some people like to sleep on bags of charcoal on garage forecourts and eat cat shit and gravel for breakfast.
So if AUK is getting rid of all competitive elements are they going to get rid of points, results tables, controls, awards, medals, trophy's? What will Audax be without these? I'll still enjoy riding my bike without those things, but I can do that without AUK membership and without paying entry fees for rides.
So if AUK is getting rid of all competitive elements are they going to get rid of points, results tables, controls, awards, medals, trophy's? What will Audax be without these? I'll still enjoy riding my bike without those things, but I can do that without AUK membership and without paying entry fees for rides.
there are plenty of rides outside Audax that I enjoy.This muchly. Since I first became aware of Audax but before I was at all into it (to the small extent that I am), I realised that there are some people for whom Audax is the be all and end all of cycling. They are probably a vocal minority rather than a majority (and some prominent audaxers are notable exceptions) but there is a certain tendency that refuses to contemplate a ride that doesn't get them some points.
Why would they cheat and lie?
Get homologated for riding a Ducati round a BP. How is this situation different to all of the arguments for allowing electric bikes to be homologated on a BP?Well, a Ducati is likely to prove a far greater mechanical challenge... :D
I would not have ridden the Irish 1200 if that rider was homologated.
What does Audax mean to you?
What direction is Audax UK going in?
The recent Irish 1200km brevet had a starter using an electric bike, with the full knowledge of the organisers. They rode knowing that, if they'd finished the event, their brevet would not be homologated.
I have no problems with that approach. I would not have ridden the Irish 1200 if that rider was homologated.
I would not have ridden the Irish 1200 if that rider was homologated.
Seriously? Forgive me, I don't doubt your passion/belief/conviction and admire it in many ways, but that really does seem cutting off the nose to spite the face.. though I'm sure there's a more apt, cycling related metaphor!
(On a legalistic note, how would the anti-EAPC bunch respond to a legal challenge from a cyclist with an impairment, who contends that their electrical assistance is no more than a reasonable adjustment for disability, and as such should be accepted in any event? Hypothetical and vanishingly unlikely, I grant you, but not impossible.)
What is it about collecting a homologation number on a brevet card that is so necessary in getting an electric bike rider out on the road?
reading between the lines of Marcus's post I suspect he rides an Audax without any advantage such as slipstreaming to test himself fully and fairly.
reading between the lines of Marcus's post I suspect he rides an Audax without any advantage such as slipstreaming to test himself fully and fairly.
You read it wrong. Slipstreaming isn't against the regs when done behind another rider on the same event as you.
(On a legalistic note, how would the anti-EAPC bunch respond to a legal challenge from a cyclist with an impairment, who contends that their electrical assistance is no more than a reasonable adjustment for disability, and as such should be accepted in any event? Hypothetical and vanishingly unlikely, I grant you, but not impossible.)
Not something we have to consider as the regulations are currently the regulations and we do not have to take account of adjustments for disability in terms of speeds. Also, if you need assistance then sit on the back of a tandem.
I think that this is just Audax coming to terms with a changing world and changing technology.
It reminds me a bit of the discussions about having support on long rides like PBP or LEL. Do the groups with a camper van, food laid out for them on arrival and clean kit hanging on the line at each control devalue the achievement of those who ride with a saddlebag and one change of socks?
I think that this is just Audax coming to terms with a changing world and changing technology.
You have to distinguish between Audax and AUK. AUK is UK and Audax is the whole world.
That said, why the flying fuck should either "come to terms" with anything? Audax has its own terms and conditions, and if you can't meet them, tough.
And as I said before, if AUK wants to allow electric bikes in some of its events, well and good, but don't call them Audax because they're not. "Inclusivity" is all very well for vicarage tea-parties but it's no real reason to muddy up something that has one of the most brilliant features of cycling for the last 100 years.
I think that this is just Audax coming to terms with a changing world and changing technology.
You have to distinguish between Audax and AUK. AUK is UK and Audax is the whole world.
That said, why the flying fuck should either "come to terms" with anything? Audax has its own terms and conditions, and if you can't meet them, tough.
And as I said before, if AUK wants to allow electric bikes in some of its events, well and good, but don't call them Audax because they're not. "Inclusivity" is all very well for vicarage tea-parties but it's no real reason to muddy up something that has one of the most brilliant features of cycling for the last 100 years.
I haven't been here long but I agree, Audax is brilliant, its appeal for me is that it is a broad church. Its good to see and chat to people on tandams, trikes, recumbents. Riding fast or full value, a variety of characters and opinions etc all riding the same event and getting their own satisfaction from it. Would a couple of folk riding electric bikes change that?
The less than 200km events are for old people, young people, people with one lung, people with not much time on their hands, people from racing clubs.
reading between the lines of Marcus's post I suspect he rides an Audax without any advantage such as slipstreaming to test himself fully and fairly.
You read it wrong. Slipstreaming isn't against the regs when done behind another rider on the same event as you.
Some people like a bag drop or a hotel stay and some people like to sleep on bags of charcoal on garage forecourts and eat cat shit and gravel for breakfast.
Hey, I missed that breakfast!
I think that this is just Audax coming to terms with a changing world and changing technology.
You have to distinguish between Audax and AUK. AUK is UK and Audax is the whole world.
That said, why the flying fuck should either "come to terms" with anything? Audax has its own terms and conditions, and if you can't meet them, tough.
And as I said before, if AUK wants to allow electric bikes in some of its events, well and good, but don't call them Audax because they're not. "Inclusivity" is all very well for vicarage tea-parties but it's no real reason to muddy up something that has one of the most brilliant features of cycling for the last 100 years.
Immediately tabling ammendments to repeal a rule that was voted for less than a week ago IMHO shows a lack of respect for the members of AUK who have just been asked this question and made their decision.That assumes they knew the question was being asked.
Immediately tabling ammendments to repeal a rule that was voted for less than a week ago IMHO shows a lack of respect for the members of AUK who have just been asked this question and made their decision.That assumes they knew the question was being asked.
I didn't.
Would a couple of folk riding electric bikes change that?
It would if they obtained the same homologation as I did.
Riding, no (good on 'em, have fun out there...). Getting homologated, yes.
Me too....well I watch out for the ones with hills but no problem with distance.The less than 200km events are for old people, young people, people with one lung, people with not much time on their hands, people from racing clubs.
Oi, don't be so lungist - some of us with less than the full amount of lungs don't really mind doing the odd event above 200km. I even do ones with hills!
Sure, they should have the card. It just shouldn't get a number at the finish.
if they are not getting points for the distance on populaire, what other number would they be getting (and is that important)?