Author Topic: The Last 125  (Read 2660 times)

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
The Last 125
« on: 19 May, 2019, 07:36:03 pm »
Left Paddington today. (on the GWR routes, they will, I understand, be carrying on in other, apparently not so important areas like The North and Scotland)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-48327739

These trains are wonderful. Dirty and smelly and aged, I'm sure, but that's how we all end up.

I remember seeing my first one, from Arthur's Seat in 1976. An unearthly whistling noise as a set pulled into Waverley. They were stable and reliable, and one of them is very, very dear to my heart. It will be sad when they are not around any more. I hope to see some up North.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

yorkie

  • On top of the Galibier
Re: The Last 125
« Reply #1 on: 19 May, 2019, 07:51:00 pm »
GWR will be retaining 11 (I think) short sets with 4 passenger vehicles instead of 8 or 9 for the Cardiff - Penzance route to operate (reasonably) local stopping services. These have been modified with sliding doors and retention toilets to bring them in line with current and future accessibility standards. The sets retained by Cross Country (and recently obtained for long-term use by ScotRail) have had the same modifications.

LNER will carry on using their unmodified HSTs until they have sufficient Azumas to replace them. East Midlands Trains will likewise keep their unmodified HSTs until a future order for new trains (yet to be announced) has entered service to replace them.
Born to ride my bike, forced to work! ;)

British Cycling Regional Track Commissaire
British Cycling Regional Circuit Commissaire

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: The Last 125
« Reply #2 on: 19 May, 2019, 07:56:16 pm »
Chiltern have some HSTs as well.  Came as a bit of a surprise when I found myself on one.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: The Last 125
« Reply #3 on: 19 May, 2019, 08:14:17 pm »
What is going to be used on the un-electrified section west of Exeter then?

(Is the route even electrified as far as Exeter ?)

I was on one of these from Paddington to Bodmin on the recent BH weekend.  I had no idea they were about to disappear from that route.
Rust never sleeps

Re: The Last 125
« Reply #4 on: 19 May, 2019, 08:15:16 pm »
And in Lostwithiel, when I last looked, there was still a chap in a signal box pulling levers attached to rods and wires and stuff.
Rust never sleeps

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: The Last 125
« Reply #5 on: 19 May, 2019, 08:17:01 pm »
What is going to be used on the un-electrified section west of Exeter then?

The Class 802 'Moar Diesel Moar Better' variant?
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Martin

Re: The Last 125
« Reply #6 on: 19 May, 2019, 08:26:51 pm »
What is going to be used on the un-electrified section west of Exeter then?

800s on reduced power from the diesel engines

I always hated them as they replaced proper loco hauled trains (Deltics, Peaks 50s even humble 47s) on most of the routes. Plus the MKIII standard class seats didn't line up with the windows. And the awful smell from the brakes which were next to the aircon intakes. Still don't miss them the modern DMUs are much better.

Even the idea of naming the front and rear power cars as famous pairs was a non starter dur to their constant failure and needing to be swapped around. What other class of BR loco has had to be completely re-engined?

They were designed on the back of a fag packet during the APT fiasco as a short term solution for non electrified lines and it showed

yorkie

  • On top of the Galibier
Re: The Last 125
« Reply #7 on: 19 May, 2019, 08:31:17 pm »
Chiltern have some HSTs as well.  Came as a bit of a surprise when I found myself on one.

Almost!  ;) They're Class 67 loco-hauled Mark 3a or 3b coaches with a Driving Van Trailer (DVT) at the London end. Same design coaches as HSTs, but with standard UK 1000V DC electric train supply, rather than the 415V AC three-phase train supply on the HST.

What is going to be used on the un-electrified section west of Exeter then?

(Is the route even electrified as far as Exeter ?)

The wires currently reach Newbury on the Westbury line to Taunton and onwards, and Bristol Parkway and somewhere around Chippenham on the lines via Swindon.
Born to ride my bike, forced to work! ;)

British Cycling Regional Track Commissaire
British Cycling Regional Circuit Commissaire

Re: The Last 125
« Reply #8 on: 19 May, 2019, 08:34:00 pm »
I remember seeing my first one, from Arthur's Seat in 1976. An unearthly whistling noise as a set pulled into Waverley.

That was the Paxman Valenta engine. All of the 125s have had those replaced with a more modern but boring sounding MTU 16V 4000.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: The Last 125
« Reply #9 on: 19 May, 2019, 08:37:37 pm »
Yes, ScotRail have got a few of them now, seem to be in quite regular service.
Mostly still using the old coaches, with slam doors, though they are working on refurbishing them. They have provided instructions on how to open the doors.
Quite comfortable anyway, and more space than the 170s. Though not sure about the bike spaces, think most of them are in the guards van, so you have to run to one end of the train to get it in or out.

yorkie

  • On top of the Galibier
Re: The Last 125
« Reply #10 on: 19 May, 2019, 08:51:24 pm »
Though not sure about the bike spaces, think most of them are in the guards van, so you have to run to one end of the train to get it in or out.

The unrefurbished HSTs in use with ScotRail do have the bike spaces in the guards van at one end. At least you've only got to run 4 coaches to get to the other end, in York if an HST comes in the wrong way round we've got 9 coaches to run - through passengers wandering all over the platform as well!

The bike spaces on the refurbished sets are apparently located in the power car baggage compartments (2 spaces at each end) for end-to-end journeys** only, plus 2 spaces in one of the coaches (replacing a toilet*) for intermediate journeys.

* One of the toilets in each coach is being removed as there is no room for the retention tank at that end of the vehicle.

** The power car baggage compartments are not accessible by anyone at all during the journey due to the compartment being part of the fire suppression zone of the adjacent engine compartment. If the fire suppression is activated when people are in there, it will not be very good for their health and long-term prospects!!
Born to ride my bike, forced to work! ;)

British Cycling Regional Track Commissaire
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Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: The Last 125
« Reply #11 on: 19 May, 2019, 08:55:23 pm »
(Is the route even electrified as far as Exeter ?)
<Guffaws wildly>
The wires stop at Newbury on that route.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Re: The Last 125
« Reply #12 on: 19 May, 2019, 09:19:12 pm »
(Is the route even electrified as far as Exeter ?)
<Guffaws wildly>
The wires stop at Newbury on that route.
I own up to having spotted the wires at Paddington, and then fallen asleep / got engrossed in a book and only looked outside when we got to Bodmin, by which point it was dark.
Rust never sleeps

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: The Last 125
« Reply #13 on: 19 May, 2019, 10:13:48 pm »
They run hybrids on the Cheltenham line, and at Swindon, they metamorphose from diesel to electric and back.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: The Last 125
« Reply #14 on: 19 May, 2019, 11:33:02 pm »
Though not sure about the bike spaces, think most of them are in the guards van, so you have to run to one end of the train to get it in or out.

The unrefurbished HSTs in use with ScotRail do have the bike spaces in the guards van at one end. At least you've only got to run 4 coaches to get to the other end, in York if an HST comes in the wrong way round we've got 9 coaches to run - through passengers wandering all over the platform as well!

The bike spaces on the refurbished sets are apparently located in the power car baggage compartments (2 spaces at each end) for end-to-end journeys** only, plus 2 spaces in one of the coaches (replacing a toilet*) for intermediate journeys.
It is not so useful for intermediate journeys. What if a group of cyclists want to go to Aviemore for example? Seems a bit of a backward step compared to the 170s.
Will ScotRail get fussier about bike reservations? Just now can often get on without booking, so long as there's space to squeeze in.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: The Last 125
« Reply #15 on: 20 May, 2019, 07:24:54 am »
I remember seeing my first one, from Arthur's Seat in 1976. An unearthly whistling noise as a set pulled into Waverley.

That was the Paxman Valenta engine. All of the 125s have had those replaced with a more modern but boring sounding MTU 16V 4000.

Living on the Fife end of the Tay Bridge the Paxman Valenta Turbo Whistle is sadly missed, the MTU and VP185's engines they were refitted with have nothing on that for pure thrash.

Yes, ScotRail have got a few of them now, seem to be in quite regular service.
Mostly still using the old coaches, with slam doors,

WABTEC were meant to have them all refitted by now, only 2 were done by the deadline
CAF were majorly late with the new Sleeper Carraiges
Hitachi were massivley late with the 385s and had a dodgy drivers windy.

I don't get how these companies can arse up contracts so badly and keep getting the jobs...
OR at least how the planners don't alter the slack to cover for it as it seems you could reliably add a year to any rail contract


ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: The Last 125
« Reply #16 on: 20 May, 2019, 09:22:58 am »
I don't get how these companies can arse up contracts so badly and keep getting the jobs...
OR at least how the planners don't alter the slack to cover for it as it seems you could reliably add a year to any rail contract

Because only so many companies can deliver these contracts. And they don't win them by promising reality.

They may be a bit clunky and occasionally damp smelling, but I confess I prefer them the modern wheeled boxes.
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FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: The Last 125
« Reply #17 on: 20 May, 2019, 10:21:17 am »
I don't get how these companies can arse up contracts so badly and keep getting the jobs...
OR at least how the planners don't alter the slack to cover for it as it seems you could reliably add a year to any rail contract

Because only so many companies can deliver these contracts. And they don't win them by promising reality.

They may be a bit clunky and occasionally damp smelling, but I confess I prefer them the modern wheeled boxes.

Aye, I knew that  ;D

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: The Last 125
« Reply #18 on: 17 May, 2021, 03:13:59 pm »
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

ravenbait

  • Someone's imaginary friend
  • Pudge controls the weather.
    • Someone's imaginary friend
Re: The Last 125
« Reply #19 on: 17 May, 2021, 03:19:22 pm »
Is that the one where the driver's cabin is made out of fibreglass and glued to the front?

Sam
https://ravenbait.com
"Created something? Hah! But that would be irresponsible! And unethical! I would never, ever make... more than one."

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: The Last 125
« Reply #20 on: 17 May, 2021, 03:24:25 pm »
Yes. I think so.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Re: The Last 125
« Reply #21 on: 17 May, 2021, 03:29:31 pm »
An amazing bit of British bodging engineering. They were done as a side project to have something until the tilting APT took over. Were only ever meant to be a stop gap back when they were made in the 70s and nearly 50 years later they are only just being retired whereas the super dooper APT never went into production.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

ravenbait

  • Someone's imaginary friend
  • Pudge controls the weather.
    • Someone's imaginary friend
Re: The Last 125
« Reply #22 on: 17 May, 2021, 03:33:34 pm »
I had a professional interest in the Stonehaven derailment, so I keep an eye open for information about it. I recently read a moving account from a driver of these trains who said he now has panic attacks going to work, because he feels utterly unprotected, driving at very high speeds with nothing but a fibreglass shell around him.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeenshire/3111928/rail-engineer-calls-for-scotrail-fleet-involved-in-stonehaven-crash-to-be-scrapped/

Sam
https://ravenbait.com
"Created something? Hah! But that would be irresponsible! And unethical! I would never, ever make... more than one."

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: The Last 125
« Reply #23 on: 17 May, 2021, 04:05:07 pm »
With the size of the forces involved in a collision, there isn't much that could protect. The driver is at the front of a vehicle weighing 460 tonnes and often travelling at over 100mph.

These 125 HST trains have the weight at the ends. the APT was designed with the weight in the middle. I think in modern trains the weight is largely underneath. Where the weight is has been a factor - a weight at the front protects the remainder of the train. At Polmont the train was a push-pull with one driving car, at the front or the rear. When the train hit the cow the driving car was at the rear. It was considered that if the driving cars had been at the front the train may not have derailed.

The carriages on the 125s weren't built with crumple zones. Modern carriages are. However the carriages on a 125 were inherently safer than most of their predecessors, which had multiple doors and concertinaed up in a collision.

The best way to save lives is to engineer crashes and derailments out of the system.

Stonehaven - isn't there doubt over the inspection of drainage system around the track?
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: The Last 125
« Reply #24 on: 17 May, 2021, 04:40:51 pm »
There are events that really telescope time and this is one of them. Never mind the engine "whistle", what about the stink from the brakes? 
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