Author Topic: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents  (Read 6850 times)

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #50 on: 10 March, 2021, 12:28:13 pm »
There is a famous picture* of Andy Pegg hurling a Windcheetah through the left-hander hairpin at Eastway with the inside front tyre** bent almost through a right angle without coming off the rim.  Though if you treated them like that they didn’t last long; my grate frend Mr Sheen completely trashed a pair in about an hour of racing in spite of swapping them over during the lunch break.

* Someone remind me to scan and post it when I'm on the Proper Computer
** 32-369 Wolber-Moulton

I'd humbly suggest that if you're doing that sort of thing, you probably won't be considering solid tyres...
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #51 on: 10 March, 2021, 12:54:25 pm »
There is a famous picture* of Andy Pegg hurling a Windcheetah through the left-hander hairpin at Eastway with the inside front tyre** bent almost through a right angle without coming off the rim.  Though if you treated them like that they didn’t last long; my grate frend Mr Sheen completely trashed a pair in about an hour of racing in spite of swapping them over during the lunch break.

* Someone remind me to scan and post it when I'm on the Proper Computer
** 32-369 Wolber-Moulton

I'd humbly suggest that if you're doing that sort of thing, you probably won't be considering solid tyres...

Ah, I missed that proviso.  I may post the picture anyway, 4 teh LOLZ0RZ.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #52 on: 10 March, 2021, 02:10:27 pm »
Just 4 teh LOLZ0RZ, Andy Pegg at Eastway, 1983:


Andy Pegg cornering by Mr Larrington, on Flickr
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #53 on: 11 March, 2021, 06:52:10 pm »
I remember seeing a pencil sketch of that photo at the start of the chapter about ‘bents in Richard’s New Bicycle Book back in the day. As a callow yoof, I’d never seen anything like it before and my interest was duly piqued. Only took me the best part of 40 years to finally move to the dark side though...

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #54 on: 11 March, 2021, 08:02:04 pm »
That photo was in one of the first ever bike magazines I actually paid for.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #55 on: 11 March, 2021, 09:31:45 pm »
“Bicycle”, September 1983 issue :)
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #56 on: 18 March, 2021, 07:05:42 am »
I remember seeing a pencil sketch of that photo at the start of the chapter about ‘bents in Richard’s New Bicycle Book back in the day. As a callow yoof, I’d never seen anything like it before and my interest was duly piqued. Only took me the best part of 40 years to finally move to the dark side though...

You must be looking forward to getting your bent out on a few ahdaxes as they return.

Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #57 on: 18 March, 2021, 10:22:43 pm »
You must be looking forward to getting your bent out on a few ahdaxes as they return.
Yes, definitely. I just need to build up my miles again as lockdown eases :) If nothing else, I’ve got a pile of perm entries from last year that I need to start working my way through!

Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #58 on: 22 March, 2021, 06:46:04 pm »
Back in Sep 2019 LittleWheelsandBig said: "A winter project is to set up some tubeless rims for 406 Schwalbe Ones."

How did that project go?

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #59 on: 24 March, 2021, 11:31:12 am »
It hasn’t started yet. I never decided which hubs in various existing wheels should be reused and so I never actually got the spokes and did the deed. All of the brevets that this bike is used for and all the associated travel has been postponed for another year, so it is hard to overcome inertia.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #60 on: 13 May, 2021, 10:11:21 am »
This is at a bit of a tangent since it's for the folder and not the 'bent but since a lot of you seem to ride both and there must be a certain cross-over I'll keep it here.

I am looking for some lighter, faster tyres  for the folder to do a bit of Eurovélo that I can see needing the SNCF coach lines 'cos they have stopped running trains where I want to go. No great mileages and not really off-road on the routes I am thinking of (I will keep the original Kendas for doing canal towpaths etc).
Looking at my cheap internet tyre supplier I have Conti Contact Urban which look quite sensible (but 25€ each  :( ???  )
                                                                               Marathon Racer  (cheaper, 20€ but I am put off Marathons by stories of fitting difficulties)
                                                                               Maxxis DTH dual compound (the rigid bead version and in 44 section, which suits me) 23€
                                                                               Mitas Rubena Dom, incredibly cheap BMX racing tyre, in 44 section, 270g, folding bead 13€ on promo
                                                                               Mitas Dom, even cheaper beginners BMX tyre, 400g, rigid bead, 7€

So who knows anything about BMX tyres? Are the Mitas tyres on such a big reduction because they're crap and someone wants to get rid of them? Should I follow the dictum "If the deal is too good to be true then it isn't (true)"? On the whole do BMX Flatland tyres work well on the road? The BMX tyres are 44 section, the other two closer to 40 and I would prefer bigger (the existing tyres are 47, i don't think a Big Apple would go under the guards, although it might.

Any comments welcome. I appreciate that most of the bents seem to be on something narrower and that my use is not for something serious like long distance brevets but better toget the right thing first time round (or at least avoid the huge mistake)

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #61 on: 13 May, 2021, 10:40:04 am »
Back in The Very Old Days some of the fast boys were using BMX race tyres with the knobs ground off.  And the Tioga Comp Pool, which used consistently to be at or near the top of the lack of rolling resistance charts, was a BMX tyre.  So this Unit would surmise that “BMX” is not necessarily synonymous with “crap”.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

fd3

Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #62 on: 13 May, 2021, 11:36:09 am »
IME COntis are harder to fit than Schwalbe and I have had no issues fitting MRacers.
Strange things are afoot at the circle K.

Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #63 on: 13 May, 2021, 12:23:16 pm »
The only 406 tyres I've had problems fitting is the M+ due to the sidewalls being so stiff.
All the other 406 tyres I've tried (racers, supreme, plain M, BA, tryker, kojak) have more supple sidewalls and have gone on fairly easily.
So unless your rims are slightly oversize, I wouldn't really worry about fitting a 406 tyre.

Luck .......  ;D

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #64 on: 13 May, 2021, 12:32:17 pm »
The only 406 tyres I've had problems fitting is the M+ due to the sidewalls being so stiff.
All the other 406 tyres I've tried (racers, supreme, plain M, BA, tryker, kojak) have more supple sidewalls and have gone on fairly easily.
So unless your rims are slightly oversize, I wouldn't really worry about fitting a 406 tyre.

Second this.  The only ones I've had trouble with are Marathon Plus, and regular Marathon on one problematic rim (which threw me, as they normally go on without any drama).
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #65 on: 13 May, 2021, 12:35:04 pm »
Back in The Very Old Days some of the fast boys were using BMX race tyres with the knobs ground off.  And the Tioga Comp Pool, which used consistently to be at or near the top of the lack of rolling resistance charts, was a BMX tyre.  So this Unit would surmise that “BMX” is not necessarily synonymous with “crap”.

I was under the impression that puncture resistance seem to be a low priority in the BMX tyre world.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #66 on: 13 May, 2021, 05:14:36 pm »
Back in The Very Old Days some of the fast boys were using BMX race tyres with the knobs ground off.  And the Tioga Comp Pool, which used consistently to be at or near the top of the lack of rolling resistance charts, was a BMX tyre.  So this Unit would surmise that “BMX” is not necessarily synonymous with “crap”.

I was under the impression that puncture resistance seem to be a low priority in the BMX tyre world.

I am not sure that it is not a consideration; after all you need to finish the race. The only BMX disciplines that I know of are the track racing (we have a couple of tracks in Limoges) and the bikepark stunting sort of stuff. But neither requires that your tyres stay up more than a couple of hours. I would be more concerned about fitting them since, given the treatment they receive, there might well be  a requirement for being bastard tight on the rim and not coming off at the first excuse!

There was mention up thread of the Maxxis DTH but I am not sure which model (and narrower section , I think). I will return to look  :facepalm:

Tioga tyres are still available and look promising if only they would quote the sizes in language I could understand - I would assume that fractional sections are 451 and decimal are 406 but that is only assumption - the site that I use doesn't quote them in ISO.

StuAff

  • Folding not boring
Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #67 on: 13 May, 2021, 11:38:51 pm »
Marathon Racers are, compared to the 'regular' Marathons considerably lighter, considerably faster, and (relatively speaking) made of cheese- a fast tyre with puncture resistance, not tough as old boots. I've had multiple punctures on them in both 700C and 406 sizes. Marathon Supremes are just as fast, tougher, and sadly no longer available in 406.

Auntie Helen

  • 6 Wheels in Germany
Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #68 on: 14 May, 2021, 06:17:49 am »
Nutrak are fast and very cheap 20” tyres that my partner has on his velomobile. He likes them a lot.
My blog on cycling in Germany and eating German cake – http://www.auntiehelen.co.uk


Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #69 on: 14 May, 2021, 06:31:24 am »
I have just fitted some schwalbe inpac tyres on my trice 1.95 s . Initial impressions are that they are light, fast rolling and grippy. I  suspect that time will prove them to be puncher prone. I will report back  :)
the slower you go the more you see

Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #70 on: 14 May, 2021, 01:54:09 pm »
Marathon Racers are, compared to the 'regular' Marathons considerably lighter, considerably faster, and (relatively speaking) made of cheese- a fast tyre with puncture resistance, not tough as old boots. I've had multiple punctures on them in both 700C and 406 sizes. Marathon Supremes are just as fast, tougher, and sadly no longer available in 406.

That sounds like the Marathon Racer is the tyre I should be fitting - longevity is not part of the mission requirement and I generally ride in a less agressively flat-prone environment than UK. However in the interests of science I will probably end up trying the lightweight Mitas tyres which will probably be made from well matured Camembert (not even tough old Cheddar!) and will shred in next to no time (at which point I will get a set of MR).

I have limited my choices so what is currently available on my preferred web supplier. Other tyres may be available through different sources or from this one at other times of the year but limiting the choice a bit makes decision making a bit easier.

Edit:  Order passed. Only one Dom left in stock. I thought about an MR (or even a pair) but in the end the cheapskate won and the second is the standard Mitas Rubena. Makes working out comparisons a bit more difficult of course.

Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #71 on: 14 May, 2021, 03:51:06 pm »
I think on real world rough roads the difference a 406 tyre makes to average speeds is less than you think. I think the width does, the wider the better, reducing vibration and smoothing the road. I’m currently using a 32-406 Contact urban on front.  Last summer I had a 37-406 Pasela on the front.  I’m not convinced the latter is slower, and at its min pressure setting virtually eliminated vibration at the bars. So I might switch back to that soon enough or at least put it on for my longer rides. I bought two last year so have an as new one sitting in shed to fit. Last year’s one died after hitting a subsided drove road at night in the fens last year. In winter I stick a marathon green guard on.

Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #72 on: 15 May, 2021, 10:27:32 am »
I think on real world rough roads the difference a 406 tyre makes to average speeds is less than you think. I think the width does, the wider the better, reducing vibration and smoothing the road. I’m currently using a 32-406 Contact urban on front.  Last summer I had a 37-406 Pasela on the front.  I’m not convinced the latter is slower, and at its min pressure setting virtually eliminated vibration at the bars. So I might switch back to that soon enough or at least put it on for my longer rides. I bought two last year so have an as new one sitting in shed to fit. Last year’s one died after hitting a subsided drove road at night in the fens last year. In winter I stick a marathon green guard on.

Width is one of the factors that makes me choose the Mitas (or eventually a Maxxis) over the Marathon or Conti options. I have 47-406 Kenda lorry tyres on at present, great in the woods (limited by rear mech ground clearance!) but I don't think a Big Apple for example would go under the guards. The tyres I am choosing are 44-406 with smoother tread profiles and more supple sidewalls. The Schwalbe and Conti options are 40-406.

Is this the one you are referring to as a Greenguard https://www.cycletyres.fr/pneu-schwalbe-marathon-endurance-twinskin-greenguard-764.html ?

Re: 20" 406 tyres for recumbents
« Reply #73 on: 15 May, 2021, 10:55:08 am »
Is this the one you are referring to as a Greenguard https://www.cycletyres.fr/pneu-schwalbe-marathon-endurance-twinskin-greenguard-764.html ?

Yes, I have it in 406-40 and fitted from late October till March. Basically when I don’t want to be fixing punctures in the cold.