Average riding speed and body weight

[Wowbagger]

I've lost a lot of weight over the past year - about 4 stones (25 kg). This has been deliberate. However, yesterday I went out for my first >40 mile ride for about 2 years and, somewhat to my disappointment, my average speed over the entire ride was about 8.6mph. This is hardly any different from previous rides when I was a great deal lardier than I am now. I have been on beta blockers for the past year, which I wasn't before, but I don't know how much difference they are likely to make.

One of my motivational factors in losing weight has been to promise myself some sort of treat when I reach a particular milestone, and I was thinking of getting myself a bike of a rather faster style than my trusty old Thorn for me to ride a bit quicker - I might even take up audax, I thought...

But if the 67-year-old me, even without the unwanted half-hundredweight of extra lard just isn't going to be up to the job, then I might as well save my money.

As ever, thoughts from the panel would be very welcome.

[Kim]

'You don't go any faster, it just gets easier'

Over the last few years I've gone from almost 90kg to low-60s, with most of that happening over the course of 2020.  My 'audax' riding pace hasn't changed noticably.  I think climbing's got a bit easier, and I'm certainly noticing the effect of wind in a way that I previously wasn't.  My resting heart rate's gone down a bit.  My 'flat out racing' pace seems slightly better, but I think that's more to do with fitness than weight.

Given the pandemic, I assume most of your riding has been close to home, and therefore lacking in the serious climbing where lower weight really makes a difference.

[Paul H]

Your first >40 mile ride in two years? Think how slow it would have been if you hadn't lost weight!
Otherwise what Kim says, it get easier and that's most noticeable both on the hills and the recovery time. If you want to go faster, you need to train to go faster, the weight loss will have greatly improved the chances of that being successful.

[quixoticgeek]

and how much climbing was in that 65kph?

Without more data it's hard to say.

J

[grams]

I'd expect riding solo with no time goal is probably going to tend to the same speed number whatever your fitness level.

One of the things I like about group cycling, club cycling (and Zwift) is you get to find out "how well can I keep up with these people who are much faster than me". I don't know what options you have open to you to test yourself in this vein.

[Andy W]

Well done on getting out on your bike.  And really well done on losing so much weight, a huge achievement.  I note you've been running a fair bit which will keep your cardiovascular system in good condition, but cycling uses very different neuromuscular systems. Give yourself at least 10 rides out over 3 weeks and I'm sure you'll be quicker.  Another thing is the route you take. You may get baulked by traffic, road layout and topography.
Yours is a good news storey. Mods, relocate this post. Thumbs up here and good luck. Remember,  N plus 1 Newbike awaits

[Duckfoot1606]

Firstly congrats on the weight loss, that’s a heck of an achievement! I’ve been cycling much more since the pandemic struck and although I’ve lost some weight (a few kg, nothing like the 25kg you have achieved) in all honesty I can’t say I noticed any real difference in speed across much the same terrain as I normally ride on. My average speed is a plodding 13-14mph and I’d say it’s easier to consistently achieve those speeds now. The other day I thought I’d give it a real go and the result was 14.5 and I arrived home dripping in sweat. Curiously enough, when I go out on my Audax bike (about 3kg lighter than my Croix de Fer) I achieve much the same type of speed improvement but with far less effort but I still haven’t managed to break or even get near to the 15mph level. I think there is a strong law of diminishing returns on this topic 

A

[De Sisti]

'You don't go any faster, it just gets easier'
Over the last few years I've gone from almost 90kg to low-60s,

That's remarkable!   Over how many years? Pretty much eating less and exercising more.

[TimC]

Peter, well done on losing the weight. But, in doing so, you will also have lost a considerable amount of muscle and, unless you were doing a significant amount of other strength-developing exercise, your ability to move yourself and your bike will have stayed the same or - given that you haven't been riding much - will have reduced. As you have a long history of riding bikes, it shouldn't take long to get some cycling form back, but if you want to be significantly quicker you're going to have to train for it.

[Kim]

'You don't go any faster, it just gets easier'
Over the last few years I've gone from almost 90kg to low-60s,

That's remarkable!   Over how many years? Pretty much eating less and exercising more.

Not sure, because I wasn't in the habit of measuring my weight until I noticed how skinny I was in 2020.  My mileage went up a lot in 2019 due to sorting out the bio-mechanical problems that were causing Achilles pain.

But mostly it's the stress of the rise of fascism (as a queer person with disabled family, this shit is real), compounded by the pandemic.  Not all weight loss is good, and I certainly trend towards the anorexic end of the spectrum.

[Lightning Phil]

Definitely diminishing returns. You might put 30% more effort in, to gain 10% more speed. After a break, fitness it bound to take a dip. But give it time consistently riding and it’ll come back to something you are used to.

[imajez]

I've lost a lot of weight over the past year - about 4 stones (25 kg). This has been deliberate. However, yesterday I went out for my first >40 mile ride for about 2 years and, somewhat to my disappointment, my average speed over the entire ride was about 8.6mph. This is hardly any different from previous rides when I was a great deal lardier than I am now.

Firstly well done on the weight loss and secondly well done on an average speed the same after two years off bike.
Go up some hills once you have more bike fitness back and there should be a noticeable  differnce from before.
A friend recently lost similar weight this last year and went from back of the pack on climbs to whizzing up them. She was riding continuously whilst dropping weight too.

[Peter]

@ Kim

I was very sorry to read your post.  i wish you both all the best.

Peter

[TimC]

@ Kim

I was very sorry to read your post.  i wish you both all the best.

Peter

Yes Kim, I also don't want you to think your posts weren't noticed. I know you both know you are appreciated, valued and - dare I say - loved here. I'd hope this is a safe space for anyone, but I know that, even here, sometimes it isn't. I'm not (as far as I know) on any spectrum, neurological or social, but my family has representation on both at several 'levels' (not the right word, but it'll do for now). I've seen the damage that anorexia can do, along with the various circumstances that prompt it. I know that the whole topic of weight loss can be very tricky, and that celebrating weight loss can put some people in an uncomfortable situation, especially when the weight loss isn't good for them. I don't think that's the case for Peter, but you don't have to be thin to be anorexic/bulimic.

[Peter]

You're right, Tim, I haven't got weight problems* - just upset that people I know are having a hard time, or should I say a worse time than usual.

Cheers

Peter

* Have to confess that carrying the shopping's more difficult these days!

[TimC]

You're right, Tim, I haven't got weight problems* - just upset that people I know are having a hard time, or should I say a worse time than usual.

Cheers

Peter

* Have to confess that carrying the shopping's more difficult these days!

Me too Peter!

[T42]

@Wow, well done with the weight and don't worry about the speed; it'll get better.

[imajez]

.......but I still haven’t managed to break or even get near to the 15mph level. I think there is a strong law of diminishing returns on this topic 

Quite literally - The drag of air resistance increases by a square of your speed.
Baggy clothing is not your friend on a bike for this reason.

[Ian H]

And there's me worrying about getting close to 80kg. 
Speed won't change much on the flat, but you should find a difference on hills (strangely, only the ones that go upwards). 
And yeah, @Kim, the nascent fascism is unnerving.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I'd expect riding solo with no time goal is probably going to tend to the same speed number whatever your fitness level.

This is true, I think. A thin Wowbagger is still a Wowbagger and behaves like a Wowbagger.

Is the 8.6mph a moving average or overall? If the latter, then you're not far off audax completing pace already, and I'd expect the spur of time limits and some faster people to draft behind and reduce some faffage would mean that you'd get round within the time limit. And even if you get back after the cut off, you've still had a good ride and some cake.

[Ham]

As an hexpert on weight fluctuations (and yeah, fluck you blitish, too) who is currently spending far too long with the scales needle pointing to full, I can confirm that everything up there ^^^ is true, especially loss of muscle condition. But crucially with lower weight comes greater possibility. When heavier there is some shit you just can't do, and recovery takes longer, too. The great thing about Teh Shiny is that it makes you (or at least, me) feel good and - if you allow yourself - ride more. There's a pleasure in the mechanical efficiency of new gear(s) where everything clicks into place smoothly and efficiently that can put an extra smile on your face. I say, go for it, whatever it is.  Maybe it is time for something like this?

[Kim]

I'd expect riding solo with no time goal is probably going to tend to the same speed number whatever your fitness level.

This is true, I think. A thin Wowbagger is still a Wowbagger and behaves like a Wowbagger.

I find there's a bike factor, too.  ICE Sprint and Streetmachine are more or less the same weight, more or less the same tyres, and both a bit more aerodynamic than a standard upwrong.  Conventional wisdom is that the trike would be about 12% slower because of the extra wheel.  If I give it full beans, I climb at the same speed on either, and the Streetmachine rolls a bit better downhill.  However, if I'm just aimlessly pootling along, I go a *lot* slower on the trike.  I think it's psychological, because it feels faster, being low down and more inclined to vibrations.

The Red Baron on the other hand is also low down, and extremely inclined to vibrations.  It's not a bike you pootle aimlessly on, though.  The handling encourages speed, and riding slowly requires an element of concentration.

Similarly, I'm always surprised by my relative speed on tarmac and off-road on the mountain bike.  On tarmac it's a slog, as you'd expect for an upright riding position and knobbly tyres.  But on decent singletrack, or disintegrating towpaths I'll blat along, because it's fun to ride.

[Lightning Phil]

Definitely uphills where you can make the biggest difference to your average speed.  You’re going slower uphill so aero penalties aren’t as much as going full pelt in the flat. Plus you spend quite a bit longer going uphill than flat or downhill for the same distance. So you get more return on your investment.   

Let’s say I do a ride of 20 km. At an average of 20 km/h that takes an hour. At an average 21km/h it takes 57 mins 8 seconds.

If I go up a 1km hill at 10 km / h that’s 6 minutes to go up it.   If I go up at 12 km/h that’s 5 mins to go up it.   If I go up 3 such hills during my 20 km ride and go at 12 km/h  up each. I’ve knocked 3 mins off how long the 20 km ride takes. Without changing my speed elsewhere on the route.

I’ve managed to increase my average speed from 20 km/h to 21 km/h over 20km by increasing my speed by 2 km/h over 3 km of uphill. 

Now let’s say that I keep to my 10 km/h uphill.  That means I spend 18 mins on the uphills and have covered 3km.  To hit 21 km/h I need to hit the remaining 17 km in 39 minutes.  That means averaging 26.2 km/h over the rest of the route.  To hit 20 km/h average I would need to average 24.2 km/h over the next 42 mins. 

For an all up weight of 90kg for bike and rider (which is about me on my recumbent).

To ride up a 3% hill at 10 km/h is 94 watts. To ride up the same hill at 12 km/h is 115 watts.  To ride on the flat at 24.2 km/h comes up at 97 watts. To ride on the flat at 26.2 km/h is 117 watts. I played with gradient to see where the effort levels would match for the speed up 3 hills between 10-12 km/h and overall average around 20 km/h.

So I can either put out 117 watts for 28.57 minutes on the flat bit of the route  or I can put out 115 watts for 15 minutes on the uphill part of the course to achieve the same average speed of 21 km/h over 20 km.

If the hill gets steeper say 5% then at same power outputs. I get 6.63km/h for 94 watts and I get 8.06km/h at 115 watts. On a 1 km/h uphill that translates to 9 mins 3 seconds and 7 mins 26 seconds respect .  A saving of 1 minute 37 seconds by increasing my effort / power output to 115 watts.  A saving of 4 mins 51 seconds over three such hills. 

If I do same as before and ride uphill at 6.63km/h.  It takes 27 mins 9 seconds to get up the 3 hills.  To hit that 21 km/h average I’ve got to cover the remaining 17km in 30 mins. That is an average of 34 km/h for the flat bit. According to the calc that requires 220 watts of power on average. Quite a difference.  If I go up the hills at 115 watts, it takes me 22 mins 8 seconds to complete the 3 hills.  I now need to complete the remaining 17 km in 35 mins. That requires an average speed of 29 km/h over the remaining 17 km. That requires 148 watts of power.

So 94 watts for 27 mins, then 220 watts for 30 mins to hit 21 km/h average.  Or I can do 115 watts for 22 mins, then 148 watts for 35 mins to hit 21 km/h average.

Energy burn of the former assuming 25% efficiency of body producing energy to power bike is 531 calories. If going harder on hills, calorie burn 333 calories. You can eat less for the same average speed, plus a higher percentage of burn will be fat due to lower effort levels.

It soon becomes clear how putting more effort in on uphills helps you more easily improve your averages. Me sustaining 220 watts outdoors for 30 mins is very hard. (My threshold is higher but that’s on a turbo trainer with no traffic or junctions or bike handling to bother about).  Me sustaining 148 watts for 35 mins not a problem.

Of course many of us hit threshold up hills and wear ourselves out.  You don’t need to do that, just subtly lift your effort a bit uphill but keep it manageable. Then keep the rest at same (sane) effort level as before. To up that average speed for the least extra effort.

Now to put that into practice. I’d never really actually crunched the numbers before. It does make it quite obvious what difference uphill efforts make. Don’t fight headwinds, save harder efforts for uphill.

[imajez]

Interesting bit of number crunching there Phil.

[drossall]

I think physiology comes into it as well. I'm about five years younger than Wow. I've lost a couple of stone over the last two years, since a heart bypass, so I'm also on meds. I'm cleared to push myself, but I've never been one of the fastest riders, and I've always been really slow on hills. I just have a gradient at which things stop, and I can only grind my way up. When I was young, that was maybe 1:10. Now it's nearer 1:100 Even in those younger days, I once got dropped in the neutralised zone of a road race

So the weight loss really isn't making much difference, because I still hit that maximum gradient at which effort makes no difference, and then disappear off the back of any group and gradually wind my way up the hill.