Base training

[DuncanM]

More supra-threshold intervals today.  My legs were not impressed at getting up early and didn't want to co-operate. I skipped one interval, but completed 4 (some of each in aero), so that's not too bad. Much of the stopping was down to me fiddling with my position - need to go back to the fitter now I have my forward seatpost.
https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides/49942701-washington-4

[simonp]

I need to work on sustained power. I can do 715w in a Zwift sprint, but my FTP (as measured just 15 minutes ago) is still sub-200, which is shite. So I started the Sustained Power Build plan on TR.

I was <220W in February 2015 and it was fine. >250W by PBP.

[Chris S]

Holy Crap. Mount Goode on TR. My FTP is 196, and it reckons 3x15min intervals of 194 are sweet spot? I can't do that, I'll have an infarction!

I must have missed the "I'm old and have COPD" button in my settings somewhere. 

I managed one interval. That's Goode [sic] enough for me.

[Phil W]

FTP test this morning.   I am now up to 218.7 from 199.3 on Dec 30th;  So an increase of 9.7%. Over the same period my weight has dropped from 80kg to 77kg.  So am now at 2.86 W / kg.  Might have to revise my 3W / kg target for PBP, maybe I need to aim for something higher.

What is interesting is that I have not done any workouts around FTP during this early base period.  It has either been aerobic threshold (low intensity long duration) or aerobic capacity (VO2 max) low dose intervals or strength work. Late base, starting Monday I begin introducing lactate threshold intervals.  One of the most enlightening things of this structured training (this is the start of my second year) is understanding how I respond to the training.

Worst bit of FTP test other than doing it, is waiting for it to tell me if my FTP has improved. I cycle on drops with head down whilst doing it.

So far, so good.

[simonp]

Holy Crap. Mount Goode on TR. My FTP is 196, and it reckons 3x15min intervals of 194 are sweet spot? I can't do that, I'll have an infarction!

I must have missed the "I'm old and have COPD" button in my settings somewhere. 

I managed one interval. That's Goode [sic] enough for me.

It's a threshold workout, that's why it'a not sweet-spot. 3x15 minutes at 97-99% FTP.

[Chris S]

Holy Crap. Mount Goode on TR. My FTP is 196, and it reckons 3x15min intervals of 194 are sweet spot? I can't do that, I'll have an infarction!

I must have missed the "I'm old and have COPD" button in my settings somewhere. 

I managed one interval. That's Goode [sic] enough for me.

It's a threshold workout, that's why it'a not sweet-spot. 3x15 minutes at 97-99% FTP.

It's an enormous leap up from base is what it is 

[Pedal Castro]

Yesterday was first day back from a 5 day city break, built in as a rest week but ended up as a significant strength build climbing lots and lots of steps, 414 in one Campanile alone!

Plan was a mid effort hour to prep for a new FTP test today but afterwards I started feeling a bit off colour with early flu like symptoms. Felt not too bad this morning so did just 40' building the effort as I went. All being well I'll attempt the test tomorrow.

[rob]

General p1ssing around at Canter Parcs for a couple of days.   Given I managed an hour before we set off it should only be 3 days off, then some solid work up to Easter.

[simonp]

4x5m 108% just completed. That’s on top of an hour on the rowing machine at the rowing club gym - zone 2 with 1-minute bursts of 5k race pace every 6th minute.

Ability to double stack like this is comforting. And I did deadlifts yesterday.

[Phil W]

It's an enormous leap up from base is what it is 

I heard the expression

Base is training so you are ready to train, build is specific  training for your event(s).

So cut your base training short and you may not be ready for the training intensity / duration combinations in build.

[Chris S]

Simon called it right - I picked a plan that focuses on threshold, not sweet-spot. I've corrected it now.

3x15m @>95%? I don't hate myself enough for that  .

[zigzag]

3x15m @>95%? I don't hate myself enough for that  .

how about 60m at 100% then? in theory it should be doable, but i can't really see myself suffering that much, even with a coach shouting in my ear and pom pom dancers in the front..

[Chris S]

3x15m @>95%? I don't hate myself enough for that  .

how about 60m at 100% then? in theory it should be doable, but i can't really see myself suffering that much, even with a coach shouting in my ear and pom pom dancers in the front..

Well, quite! The fact that I can't do repeated 15m intervals of my FTP suggests it's set too high. I'll leave it for now - if I have trouble with sweet-spot too, I'll retest it.

[simonp]

Simon called it right - I picked a plan that focuses on threshold, not sweet-spot. I've corrected it now.

3x15m @>95%? I don't hate myself enough for that  .

Yup - standard progression for PBP is probably:

Base: Sweet Spot Base I & II
Build: Sustained Power Build
Speciality: Century*

* There's no ultra-whatever plan; this is the closest match.

[simonp]

The idea that threshold should be defined as hour power is controversial.

Most people should be able to hold it for somewhere in the range of 20-40 minutes. A 3x15m workout is hard but not impossible.

I find that the sweet-spot and higher work requires me to be well recovered. Not eating enough, especially carbs, and I'm not finishing them.

[Chris S]

I find that the sweet-spot and higher work requires me to be well recovered. Not eating enough, especially carbs, and I'm not finishing them.

That was my other thought -I probably shouldn't have tried it fasted, nor immediately following a previous indoor ride, albeit an easy one.

[simonp]

I find that the sweet-spot and higher work requires me to be well recovered. Not eating enough, especially carbs, and I'm not finishing them.

That was my other thought -I probably shouldn't have tried it fasted, nor immediately following a previous indoor ride, albeit an easy one.

Nailed it.

[DuncanM]

4x15 minutes at >95% FTP hurts.
https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides/50196271-fish-2

[L CC]

We're ketonauts. He should be able to do everything fasted.

even with a coach shouting in my ear and pom pom dancers in the front..

I don't think it's pom pom dancers I need. I was doing a ride the other day and the conversation turned to favourite chocolate. I haven't had "any* this year, and the mere mention of Terry's Chocolate Orange had me surging off the front of the group with a 20W power boost.

[Chris S]

We're ketonauts. He should be able to do everything fasted.

#stokerwhippin

[Phil W]

What do people mean when they say fasted?

If I ride in the morning it will be 12 hours or more since I have eaten (don't have breakfast except weekends). If I ride in the evening it will be 6-8 hours since I have eaten.  Never called it fasted riding as it is just what I have always done as an adult.

Is fasted more like 24 hours since eating?

[LMT]

I find that the sweet-spot and higher work requires me to be well recovered. Not eating enough, especially carbs, and I'm not finishing them.

That was my other thought -I probably shouldn't have tried it fasted, nor immediately following a previous indoor ride, albeit an easy one.

You went to do an anaerobic effort in a fasted state?

[Chris S]

I find that the sweet-spot and higher work requires me to be well recovered. Not eating enough, especially carbs, and I'm not finishing them.

That was my other thought -I probably shouldn't have tried it fasted, nor immediately following a previous indoor ride, albeit an easy one.

You went to do an anaerobic effort in a fasted state?

Yeah - I pressed the wrong button and signed up to Build not Base, so got threshold not sweet-spot. SS I can do fasted - but not threshold it would seem. Figures.

[rob]

I don’t follow a Keto diet, tending to just monitor weight and keep it in a band.  The last 2 Winters I have struggled to complete the harder sessions around this time of year when my weight has dipped.  I was informed that threshold efforts and up are largely carb fuelled and I was running low on fuel.

At that stage I was riding home from work for an hour and then getting on the turbo, having dinner about 8pm.   I now have a snack mid afternoon and a gel before the turbo work.   Makes the harder sessions more manageable for me anyway.

[simonp]

I’ve found it essential to eat something mid afternoon as it’s often 7-8 hours after lunchtime when I can train. One off workouts fine but training day after day it gets harder.

Just done 30x2 at 85% to round off the week.