LEJOG record attempt.

[Scrantaj]

I asked Michael Broadwith about the relationship of adventure racing to LEJOG and the 24 prior to the Mersey Roads. Jasmijn is visible in the background a couple of times as she warmed up.

There's a surprisingly small number of us who have done both.  I expect it will grow in the near future as Jasmijn has entered Race around the Netherlands next year and I'm aware of other 24 hour riders with plans. 

Both involve pedalling for a long time at as high a speed as you are able to sustain but, otherwise, I'd say that they are not that similar. 

On the 24 you have to be much more focused on riding round the same roads over and over again, and you are going a good 5mph quicker - so for someone like me there would be a similar speed difference between a 25 mile TT and the 24 and the 24 and, say, TCR. 

Ultra-races are mentally much easier as you are going from A to B, often through pretty scenery and places you may have long-wanted to visit - nobody says that about Prees or Tern Hill!  You have lots of other challenges, from routing to finding food and somewhere to sleep, but, in the grand scheme of things, they are not as hard as the one big challenge of racing for 24 hours.

Anyway - apologies for going further off topic!

Sorry to continue hijacking the thread but I found this really interesting.  I rode the 24 in July, my first attempt. Having ridden a lot of Audax previously I actually found the 24 mentally quite easy.  No worries about routing, controls, food etc.  Just ride the bike.  After a couple of laps I knew where I could push, where I needed to go steady, where I could make up time etc. and very quickly found a rhythm to it.  I really enjoyed the simplicity of it all despite having to swap bikes early on and bonking spectacularly at around 22 hours, losing around 40 minutes while the crew poured lucozade and jaffa cakes into me.  Hoping to ride the TCR next year but also want to go again in the 24 as I know I could go further with the lessons learned on the first one.  The timing will make that a challenge though.  Is a week enough to recover from a 24?

[Exit Stage Left]

There's usually a conversation on the 24 about which Tour rider would be able to do the biggest distance. So there's a desire to be able to calibrate the various disciplines against each other.

Stuart Birnie and Ultan Coyle have straddled a lot of the boundaries. But has anyone done 24 Hours, RAAM, LEJOG, PBP and Transcontinental adventure racing? The 24 and LEJOG are essentially cycling under laboratory conditions, and the 24 feeds into the UMCA system. RAAM is now controlled by the same company as the 'World 24 Hour Championship'.

So there's always the potential for a 'unification', an answer to the question of who is the best long distance cyclist. But the waters are muddied by the question of safety. I think that the road is a truer test than the track, but I do breathe a sigh of relief when everyone is safely home.

LEJOG is interesting in that there is an inherent jeopardy in starting out. There is potential for a consolation prize at 24 Hours, but the aim is to exceed the record, and you don't get the chance to post the second fastest time ever. So it's all or nothing, with considerable logistical costs.

I'll stick with George Pilkington-Mills as the best long-distance cyclist so far. Partly for his engineering contributions to cycling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Pilkington_Mills

[teethgrinder]

There's usually a conversation on the 24 about which Tour rider would be able to do the biggest distance. So there's a desire to be able to calibrate the various disciplines against each other.

Stuart Birnie and Ultan Coyle have straddled a lot of the boundaries. But has anyone done 24 Hours, RAAM, LEJOG, PBP and Transcontinental adventure racing? The 24 and LEJOG are essentially cycling under laboratory conditions, and the 24 feeds into the UMCA system. RAAM is now controlled by the same company as the 'World 24 Hour Championship'.

So there's always the potential for a 'unification', an answer to the question of who is the best long distance cyclist. But the waters are muddied by the question of safety. I think that the road is a truer test than the track, but I do breathe a sigh of relief when everyone is safely home.

Chris Hopkinson has done most of those, but even admits himself, he'd be useless at self supported racing. I'd put RAAM under the lab conditions category if you're putting the LEJOG there. You bring your house with you instead of living off the land in unsupported races.

LEJOG is interesting in that there is an inherent jeopardy in starting out. There is potential for a consolation prize at 24 Hours, but the aim is to exceed the record, and you don't get the chance to post the second fastest time ever. So it's all or nothing, with considerable logistical costs.

Yes. Anyone can turn up and have a punt at the 24 or other races etc. But to have a crack at a record, you have to at least show that you have a chance of success, unless you have access to all the necessary resources that go with it.

They're all different challenges that challenge you in different ways. It's as hard or as easy as you want to make it for yourself.

[Frank9755]

Sorry to continue hijacking the thread but I found this really interesting.  I rode the 24 in July, my first attempt. Having ridden a lot of Audax previously I actually found the 24 mentally quite easy.  No worries about routing, controls, food etc.  Just ride the bike.  After a couple of laps I knew where I could push, where I needed to go steady, where I could make up time etc. and very quickly found a rhythm to it.  I really enjoyed the simplicity of it all despite having to swap bikes early on and bonking spectacularly at around 22 hours, losing around 40 minutes while the crew poured lucozade and jaffa cakes into me.  Hoping to ride the TCR next year but also want to go again in the 24 as I know I could go further with the lessons learned on the first one.  The timing will make that a challenge though.  Is a week enough to recover from a 24?

No, a week isn't long enough.  It's personal but people typically say a month to recover from a 12 or 24.

But whether you need to be fully recovered depends on your TCR ambitions.  If you want to race it, then it doesn't make sense.  But many people are happy to take it a little bit easier than racing pace.  In practice, fresh riders always go fastest on their first day on the TCR.  Then speed and power gradually decrease day by day.  By about day 3, most people have settled down to what they can sustain for the rest of the race.  If you started with the 24 in your legs, you might be starting at that kind of power level without the extra speed on days 1 and 2.

When you do your next 24, and build on the lessons learned, etc, to try to get the best distance you can, you might find it mentally, as well as physically, harder.  Racing a 24, or a 12, flat out, at what you know is the maximum power you can sustain, with only a few minutes off the bike in the whole event, is much tougher than doing a first one with an experimental approach - that was what I found anyway!
 

[Frank9755]

There's usually a conversation on the 24 about which Tour rider would be able to do the biggest distance. So there's a desire to be able to calibrate the various disciplines against each other.

Stuart Birnie and Ultan Coyle have straddled a lot of the boundaries. But has anyone done 24 Hours, RAAM, LEJOG, PBP and Transcontinental adventure racing? The 24 and LEJOG are essentially cycling under laboratory conditions, and the 24 feeds into the UMCA system. RAAM is now controlled by the same company as the 'World 24 Hour Championship'.

So there's always the potential for a 'unification', an answer to the question of who is the best long distance cyclist. But the waters are muddied by the question of safety. I think that the road is a truer test than the track, but I do breathe a sigh of relief when everyone is safely home.

LEJOG is interesting in that there is an inherent jeopardy in starting out. There is potential for a consolation prize at 24 Hours, but the aim is to exceed the record, and you don't get the chance to post the second fastest time ever. So it's all or nothing, with considerable logistical costs.

I'll stick with George Pilkington-Mills as the best long-distance cyclist so far. Partly for his engineering contributions to cycling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Pilkington_Mills

One of the other big differences is the cost of doing an event.  Support crews are expensive so doing RAAM costs tens of thousands of dollars.  A support crew for the 24 might cost a few hundred pounds, but LEJoG would be a lot more. 

But you could do the 24 unsupported for not very much (you don't even need accomodation!) and an ultra-race like the TCR is not expensive relative to other 2-week holidays.  Same for PBP.

One of Mike Hall's aims was to make the TCR accessible to people who were not well-off.

[rob]

The 24hr used to cost me probably getting on for £800 by the time I had covered fuel, accommodation and food for myself and my crew.   On the 2nd go I didn't even finish.   I also have to take 2 days off work.   I need to be really sure before I do it again and it's unlikely to be next year in and around my other plans.

I would quite like to do the Breckland 12hr next year as it's close enough to home, a really fast course and the National champs.....but......it's the weekend before PBP.   7 full days of recovery may not be enough if I batter myself.   I tried to do a 12hr 6 weeks after the 24hr in 2016 and had nothing - I'm a lightweight weakling though so other more hardy souls may be able to recover better.

As for RRA attempts I'll leave those to the strong guys and girls and sit back and watch.

[DuncanM]

I assume that younger people recover better as well. I used to be able to play football matches on up to 7 or 8 consecutive days as a teenager/20 something. I reckon if I tried to do 1 hour sweet spot workouts on 3 consecutive days I'd break now (I just can't play football as my knee/back isn't up to it).

[cygnet]

George Marshall did TCR4 as a duo a week after close to 500miles in the MR24. His partner scratched after 3 days but he finished.

He's a young 'un though.

[mattc]

One of the other big differences is the cost of doing an event.  Support crews are expensive so doing RAAM costs tens of thousands of dollars.  A support crew for the 24 might cost a few hundred pounds, but LEJoG would be a lot more. 

But you could do the 24 unsupported for not very much (you don't even need accomodation!) and an ultra-race like the TCR is not expensive relative to other 2-week holidays.  Same for PBP.

One of Mike Hall's aims was to make the TCR accessible to people who were not well-off.

i would add:
You mention that budgets for the 24 can vary hugely; well riding LEJOG is the same, but the oddity there is that loads of people ride it outside the official attempt framework. One presumes that none of them are aiming to break a record, but you can't be sure! (I know our club has a semi-official record holder - he's a tester, not an audaxer, but rode it with his tent in ~93hours. No gps, no strava, no RRA, no Guinness.) Almost everyone that stumps up the official fee will also get a support crew - so there is a 2-tier culture there (with a few leaking through the barrier!)

[Exit Stage Left]

I was reminded of Chris Hopkinson today. I was doing some maintenance on trees I planted on a site next to the A49 at Coppull Moor.

The entrance is a lay-by where Chris's team were stopped while Hoppo slept during his LEJOGLE attempt, and I met them at the end of a day's tree-planting. I mentioned it on a thread here at the time. It was March, and there was a viscous cold headwind, so I wasn't surprised when he packed. Jasmijn stopped round about there in 2017.

Chris always seemed to be able raise the money for his various activities, which were always very ambitious, and well publicised.

[Frank9755]

One of the other big differences is the cost of doing an event.  Support crews are expensive so doing RAAM costs tens of thousands of dollars.  A support crew for the 24 might cost a few hundred pounds, but LEJoG would be a lot more. 

But you could do the 24 unsupported for not very much (you don't even need accomodation!) and an ultra-race like the TCR is not expensive relative to other 2-week holidays.  Same for PBP.

One of Mike Hall's aims was to make the TCR accessible to people who were not well-off.

i would add:
You mention that budgets for the 24 can vary hugely; well riding LEJOG is the same, but the oddity there is that loads of people ride it outside the official attempt framework. One presumes that none of them are aiming to break a record, but you can't be sure! (I know our club has a semi-official record holder - he's a tester, not an audaxer, but rode it with his tent in ~93hours. No gps, no strava, no RRA, no Guinness.) Almost everyone that stumps up the official fee will also get a support crew - so there is a 2-tier culture there (with a few leaking through the barrier!)

It was 96 hours, he was telling me about it yesterday!

I think by LEJoG we're meaning attempts on the RRA record, but sure, an unsupported ride, like kristof's recent LEJOGLE, would not cost much

[Exit Stage Left]

You mention that budgets for the 24 can vary hugely; well riding LEJOG is the same, but the oddity there is that loads of people ride it outside the official attempt framework. One presumes that none of them are aiming to break a record, but you can't be sure! (I know our club has a semi-official record holder - he's a tester, not an audaxer, but rode it with his tent in ~93hours. No gps, no strava, no RRA, no Guinness.) Almost everyone that stumps up the official fee will also get a support crew - so there is a 2-tier culture there (with a few leaking through the barrier!)

There are quite a few tiers. Obviously you can do the ride wholly on your own, or with company. Many seem to have camper-van backup. Many seem to have a charity link-up. There are commercial tours, and there are big corporate events. Mark Hummerstone offers four different permanents for LEJOG, including a Randonee. http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/MH01/

There is a permanent from Calais to Istanbul, http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/SJ01/ but that's not such a popular route. It might pick up if people are inspired by TCR. I recall an Arrivee article  when George Hannah and others rode it.

I had a think about the crossover between the various bodies concerned with long distance cycling in the UK. RRA, AUK and the 24 Hour Fellowship, and the common factor is Jim Hopper. That reminded me that the only current LEJOG record holder to have ridden PBP is Jane Moore.

[teethgrinder]

You mention that budgets for the 24 can vary hugely; well riding LEJOG is the same, but the oddity there is that loads of people ride it outside the official attempt framework. One presumes that none of them are aiming to break a record, but you can't be sure! (I know our club has a semi-official record holder - he's a tester, not an audaxer, but rode it with his tent in ~93hours. No gps, no strava, no RRA, no Guinness.) Almost everyone that stumps up the official fee will also get a support crew - so there is a 2-tier culture there (with a few leaking through the barrier!)

There are quite a few tiers. Obviously you can do the ride wholly on your own, or with company. Many seem to have camper-van backup. Many seem to have a charity link-up. There are commercial tours, and there are big corporate events. Mark Hummerstone offers four different permanents for LEJOG, including a Randonee. http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/MH01/

There is a permanent from Calais to Istanbul, http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/SJ01/ but that's not such a popular route. It might pick up if people are inspired by TCR. I recall an Arrivee article  when George Hannah and others rode it.

I had a think about the crossover between the various bodies concerned with long distance cycling in the UK. RRA, AUK and the 24 Hour Fellowship, and the common factor is Jim Hopper. That reminded me that the only current LEJOG record holder to have ridden PBP is Jane Moore.

Gethin Butler rode the 2003 PBP.

[mattc]

There is a permanent from Calais to Istanbul, http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/SJ01/ but that's not such a popular route. It might pick up if people are inspired by TCR. I recall an Arrivee article  when George Hannah and others rode it.

You could well be right; TCR certainly inspired me to ride the slightly lesser Eiger Sanction (Dunkirk-Eiger-Nice) http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/ML01/


(One positive from this discussion - I've finally got round to finding where the heck    Igoumenitsa is.)

[Exit Stage Left]

I had a think about the crossover between the various bodies concerned with long distance cycling in the UK. RRA, AUK and the 24 Hour Fellowship, and the common factor is Jim Hopper. That reminded me that the only current LEJOG record holder to have ridden PBP is Jane Moore.

Gethin Butler rode the 2003 PBP.
[/quote]

Quite right, he was the current holder when he rode in 2003, and he recorded the then fastest time for a Brit at PBP. Since then John Barkman is recorded as the fastest rider from the UK, although that's moot, as he's from the USA. http://shprung.com/pbp/?mode=info&frame=A054  I think John was one of the group which rode the Orient Express permanent. George Hanna being one of the others.

I remember being asked for advice about turning some video through 90 degrees at the time.

Michael Broadwith is the current LEJOG record holder. I don't think he has any Audax history, so is probably unlikely to do PBP. Without a 600 he'd be in a later group anyway, which tends to lead to slower times. Gethin Butler started in the second group in 2003, and his support had difficulties finding controls, which is fairly common for fast Brits.

Jane Moore is the current ladies tricycle LEJOG record holder, and rode PBP 2015 on a tandem trike with Mark Brooking, who observes for the Road Records Association, and has held a number of records at various distances, he's probably still part of the fastest tandem trike on PBP, but that would take a bit of research.

[rob]

The Indian Mail was ridden by John Barkman, George Hanna, Simon Kolka and Danny Fisher.

There’s a really good Arrivee article written by Simon.

Bit OT now....

[Exit Stage Left]

The Indian Mail was ridden by John Barkman, George Hanna, Simon Kolka and Danny Fisher.

There’s a really good Arrivee article written by Simon.

Bit OT now....

What edition was it? I'll have it somewhere. I suppose it will be in the results if we can remember the year.

[rob]

The Indian Mail was ridden by John Barkman, George Hanna, Simon Kolka and Danny Fisher.

There’s a really good Arrivee article written by Simon.

Bit OT now....

What edition was it? I'll have it somewhere. I suppose it will be in the results if we can remember the year.

I’ll have it somewhere.   I’d suspect early 2000s.

[Exit Stage Left]

The Indian Mail was ridden by John Barkman, George Hanna, Simon Kolka and Danny Fisher.

There’s a really good Arrivee article written by Simon.

Bit OT now....

What edition was it? I'll have it somewhere. I suppose it will be in the results if we can remember the year.

I’ll have it somewhere.   I’d suspect early 2000s.

It was September 2004. The listing seems to break down into two sections, as far as I can make out.
http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2004/listevent/?Ride=P0138

So John Barkman has two certificates.
http://www.aukweb.net/results/certificates/2004/cert/?Ride=P0138&Rider=5524&Serno=R1830
http://www.aukweb.net/results/certificates/2004/cert/?Ride=P0138&Rider=5524&Serno=JR206


The permanent results contain some of the more Audacious undertakings, and give us an indication of how popular LEJOG is as a perm.

[Legs]

Nick Clarke is currently attempting to beat Marina Bloom's 14-year old Side-to-Side (Pembroke to Gt Yarmouth) record - set off at 6:01 today.  Tracker here.

[cygnet]

WheelsofFire is also posting schedule updates on his twitter

https://twitter.com/24HourMaths

[Ham]

Nick Clarke is currently attempting to beat Marina Bloom's 14-year old Side-to-Side (Pembroke to Gt Yarmouth) record - set off at 6:01 today.  Tracker here.

I notice he had the opportunity to Gibbon and passed it up.

[rob]

Provisionally a 90 minute improvement

[Exit Stage Left]

I've been looking back at the LEJOG record footage, and wondering what I think about it.

I followed the attempt from just South of Preston, largely without preparation, as the ride took place over a weekend, so I could use Heather's company car. I had a drone, bought for LEL filming, so I thought I'd use that if it was calm enough and not raining. Previous filming had shown the pit-stops are good subjects, and I also knew a few of the key scenic points would yield some good footage.

I also had footage of the back-story, revolving around the Mersey Roads 24. This assemblage of those components starts with a discussion at the 24 in 2016, when the subject of LEJOG first came up. I used that partly because it has Jasmijn Muller in the background. When I did this very loose edit, Jasmijn was still to do her attempt, and I was thinking in terms of a film which combined both rides.

Looking back at the footage, the most striking elements are the team aspect, and the sense of history. The support needed is so great that there's an obligation to finish if you possibly can.

Events such as LEJOG are transmitted across the traditional media and the internet, and there are a variety of views which fit the pre-conceptions of the various audiences. It's difficult to know where to pitch a film to satisfy those audiences. There's lots of other footage of the attempt, so mine might be a spine of key shots, and someone else can attempt to carve a narrative out of all the video.

I'm most struck by the family element, Helen driving Michael on, with a baby crying in the background. That gives the finish a multiple sense of relief, Mike is safely home, and Helen doesn't have to go through this again.

The question of why you might put yourself through this remains, but people do. Jasmijn's two attempts show that. The actual ride is the tip of the iceberg, most of which is submerged.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuK3jTNmmDk

[rob]

Reminds me.   There's a long interview with Mike on the Cycling Podcast this week.   It's very good.