I think that CUK do an enormous amount right, Please explain
and BC do very little (they're even very helpful to grass-roots racing).Please explain
But if you just want to look at recent growth figures: don't forget the enormous publicity budget that Sky paid for.
CTC can't compete (directly) with that!
I am actually racing under the BC umbrella on Sunday, and frequently marshall for their events - so I'm hardly rabidly anti-BC! But the CTC have done waaaaaaay more for me over my 40 years of cycling.IIRC you are Oxfordshire based?
Every time I see something from "Cycling UK" I think of British Cycling, not "We Are Cycling" (previously CTC).The rebranding and the charity conversion were a disaster ::-) But they're still doing the most useful stuff in the UK.
So they might be doing a huge amount, but every time I see the name I think of BC, not CUK.
I have actually benefited from BC by buying bits from Chainreaction. This never happened with CTCThe Chain Reaction discount has now been reduced, so it is a lot less useful.
I have actually benefited from BC by buying bits from Chainreaction. This never happened with CTCThe Chain Reaction discount has now been reduced, so it is a lot less useful.
The rebranding and the charity conversion were a disaster ::-) But they're still doing the most useful stuff in the UK.
Every time I see something from "Cycling UK" I think of British Cycling, not "We Are Cycling" (previously CTC).
So they might be doing a huge amount, but every time I see the name I think of BC, not CUK.
The baffling thing with BC insurance is if you collide with another BC member during a Sportive, neither of you are insured! CUK/CTC membership does cover you regardless of who you hit.
Seems a bit odd that BC will not cover you for the most likely incident.
The baffling thing with BC insurance is if you collide with another BC member during a Sportive, neither of you are insured! CUK/CTC membership does cover you regardless of who you hit.
Seems a bit odd that BC will not cover you for the most likely incident.
I doesn’t seem odd to me. It follows the principle ( reinforced by a case in a Scottish court) that by joining in a potentially hazardous sporting- type activity you accept the inherent risks.
Just been looking at the insurance to see what's included and the policy that comes with the new Commute Membership only covers utility cycling and commuting with specific exclusions forThat's the distinction between "Commute" membership and "Ride" membership though. For £2 extra a year, the Ride membership gets you the sportive/club bits, but loses the free service...
" participating in cycling events or any kind of formal group cycling activity, such as club rides." that's pretty poor.
The baffling thing with BC insurance is if you collide with another BC member during a Sportive, neither of you are insured! CUK/CTC membership does cover you regardless of who you hit.
Seems a bit odd that BC will not cover you for the most likely incident.
I doesn’t seem odd to me. It follows the principle ( reinforced by a case in a Scottish court) that by joining in a potentially hazardous sporting- type activity you accept the inherent risks.
BC didn't alienate their core membership with a rigged charity vote* and a childish rebranding that aped Macmillan.I'm not attempting to defend that absurd epsiode, but really Rog you're comparing apples with martian oranges there! Answer me these:
*votes that expressed a preference were against conversion; the "don't knows" carried it because the Chairman decided they would be votes for conversion. I never renewed after that.
The baffling thing with BC insurance is if you collide with another BC member during a Sportive, neither of you are insured! CUK/CTC membership does cover you regardless of who you hit.
Seems a bit odd that BC will not cover you for the most likely incident.
I doesn’t seem odd to me. It follows the principle ( reinforced by a case in a Scottish court) that by joining in a potentially hazardous sporting- type activity you accept the inherent risks.
I don't understand the benefit of Race Bronze - you get a provisional race licence (and no opportunity to buy a full one) and a bunch of discounts (and no insurance at all!).
What are BC doing right and CTC doing wrong? The former aren't trying to split their mission by being both a national organisation and a provider of easy club runs for oldsters :demon:Karla seems to have a point regarding CTC/CUK. It is both a national organisation with campaigns etc and a network of local clubs with varying but overall similar character. It's been a bit like that since 1878 of course, but perhaps there used to be more of a link between local club or "section" and HQ. BC doesn't have that local presence in the same way, it sticks to being a national organisation and at the local level a BC member's identity is with Rocket Wheelers Road Club. However, now CTC has become CUK they seem to be trying to move in the same direction, becoming a national body with local affiliations rather than members. It's a long term project though and may never happen.
I don't think that's right, I'm sure a higher proportion of BC members ride with their 2,500 clubs that CUK members with their few hundred groups. I understand that even in the golden years it was never more than 20% of CTC members that rode with the groups and from my experience those that currently do identify more with that group than with the national body. Take away the club riders from both organisations and it'd be Cycling UK that suffered less. I think that's BC's motivation for broadening it's appeal, it's doing well on the back of recent sporting success, but not so long ago it was struggling for survival. Without a broader membership it'll be back there when fashions change, as they will.What are BC doing right and CTC doing wrong? The former aren't trying to split their mission by being both a national organisation and a provider of easy club runs for oldsters :demon:Karla seems to have a point regarding CTC/CUK. It is both a national organisation with campaigns etc and a network of local clubs with varying but overall similar character. It's been a bit like that since 1878 of course, but perhaps there used to be more of a link between local club or "section" and HQ. BC doesn't have that local presence in the same way, it sticks to being a national organisation and at the local level a BC member's identity is with Rocket Wheelers Road Club. However, now CTC has become CUK they seem to be trying to move in the same direction, becoming a national body with local affiliations rather than members. It's a long term project though and may never happen.
You don’t need to be a member of a club to join BC. You can even race as a private member if you wish.I didn't know that, though it doesn't alter the point I was making that BC are far more reliant on their club members than CUK are.
If I mainly want third party insurance there is little to choose between the two in terms of cost - what alternatives are there?First thing to do would be check any other insurances and memberships you have to see if you're already covered. It's bundled in with my home contents policy, it specifically excludes motorised vehicles but as it doesn't mention non motorised I'm assuming they're covered.
The original point is that BC don't organise clubs, so "their club members" is as relevant as "their car drivers". It feels like loads of sportivey type people don't seem to join clubs.You don’t need to be a member of a club to join BC. You can even race as a private member if you wish.I didn't know that, though it doesn't alter the point I was making that BC are far more reliant on their club members than CUK are.
My local club does its membership through BC so everyone who joins the club has at least a BC online account and you get a free year of actual BC membership as well (although you have to sign up for this afterwards). I imagine many other local BC-affiliated clubs are the same.You have to congratulate BC on this cunning marketing ruse!
My local club does its membership through BC so everyone who joins the club has at least a BC online account and you get a free year of actual BC membership as well (although you have to sign up for this afterwards). I imagine many other local BC-affiliated clubs are the same.That's cunning. My road club has their own membership, completely separate from BC. A local MTB club has membership through the BC portal but that doesn't obligate you to do anything further, and they didn't have any membership discount (club membership fee was only £10). I don't know about any of the other local clubs as I've not tried to join them!
As far as I can tell, CUK have actual local clubs on the ground.
And how many CUK members are active members of local groups?My understanding is that it's never been more than 20% and at the time of the charity conversion it was under 15%.
It's quite hard to make direct comparisons, both have affiliated clubs, in both cases those clubs can insist of joining the national organisation to be a club member, Cycling UK has a specific membership category for these, I don't think British Cycling do. British Cycling seem to exert more influence over their affiliated clubs and possibly offer them more in return. Cycling UK's affiliated clubs have in many cases affiliated just for the insurance and have no interest beyond that, likewise the affiliated members.As far as I can tell, CUK have actual local clubs on the ground.
Do they though? There are local CTC groups that are affiliated to the national organisation but the central government of CUK seems to be quite a distinct body, mainly focused on national-level campaigning, while the local groups get on with the business of organising rides.
In this respect, the relationship seems very similar to that between clubs and BC.
DuncanM is right in this, what he doesn't do is put it in proportion, there's not many of these groups (140?) and the percentage of members who are actively involved with them is small.
There's been a feeling (Mine anyway) that the national organisation had lost interest in these groups, but that seems to be changing.
The Cycling UK member groups have individual identity, with their own jerseys, core members, interests and traditions and so on, but no formal existence from the national organisation.Sorry, but that's simply wrong, they are part of the company. They're money belongs to Cycling UK and they have to submit they're annual returns to be included in their accounts.
On the one hand, many of these members just one to go on rides and don't care about wider campaigning, but I do think CUK could have done/should do more to support grass-roots campaigning in their member groups. Stuff like 'how to respond to local planning applications/transport plans/etc.'; I'd have thought you could put together some materials without too much hassle.
Isn't that stuff covered by local grass-roots campaigning organisations (LCC, Pushbikes, BCC, and the like)?