ACME Miscellany

[jiberjaber]

Am I missing something? I've removed the bottom bracket from my Genesis Day One. It was a TH BB-7420ST, 68x118mm. My understanding is that is an English thread, or BSA (which interestingly stands for Birmingham Small Arms).

I'm upgrading components, and from what I have read I am able to fit an external bearings BB, to then use with a new compatible crank. The new bottom bracket is a Miche Evo Max, which is described as a 1.37"x24tpi BSA thread. There are only 2 threaded versions of this bottom bracket, English and Italian threaded. I've definitely got the English one, the two sides tighten in different directions.

The issue is, when I start to screw on the drive side bracket, it doesn't go on very far before not wanting to easily screw on further. I tested the non-drive bracket, which goes on a bit further before it also stops being easy to screw on. I'm very reluctant to use force, in case they are somehow not compatible threads. But from what I am reading, there is only one standard that both the bike frame and the bottom bracket should be conforming to.

Am I missing something here?

Couple of possibilities here, cross threaded is the worse of them or either dirty of unclear threads the better of the two.  How far does the BB you removed go in to the threads?

Don't forget copperslip when you do put teh new BB in.

[psyclist]

Couple of possibilities here, cross threaded is the worse of them or either dirty of unclear threads the better of the two.  How far does the BB you removed go in to the threads?

Don't forget copperslip when you do put teh new BB in.

That's done the trick, thanks jiberjaber. 

Threads were super clean, having used white spirit earlier. Then plenty of general purpose grease. I have copper grease arriving midweek, so thinking I will use the general stuff for now, and then remove everything, clean and use the copper grease at the end of the year.

What has done the trick is trying the removed BB. It dawned on me that the bits were going on the opposite way round to the instructions from Miche. So after the removed BB seemed to be going on again fine, I switched the new BB round and started to put the single cup without the inner bit on the drive side, and it went on without any fuss. Same for the other one. Now seems so obvious, but when in the thick of it I didn't consider the instructions being wrong!

[jiberjaber]

I'd put the copperslip on as soon as you get it if not wait till it's here.  I made the mistake of thinking any grease would do in teh past and after a month it was a pain to remove - however with CS added, no issues...

Glad you got the BB sorted. Surprised there isn't a D / ND marking ?

[Lightning Phil]

Am I missing something? I've removed the bottom bracket from my Genesis Day One. It was a TH BB-7420ST, 68x118mm. My understanding is that is an English thread, or BSA (which interestingly stands for Birmingham Small Arms).

I'm upgrading components, and from what I have read I am able to fit an external bearings BB, to then use with a new compatible crank. The new bottom bracket is a Miche Evo Max, which is described as a 1.37"x24tpi BSA thread. There are only 2 threaded versions of this bottom bracket, English and Italian threaded. I've definitely got the English one, the two sides tighten in different directions.

The issue is, when I start to screw on the drive side bracket, it doesn't go on very far before not wanting to easily screw on further. I tested the non-drive bracket, which goes on a bit further before it also stops being easy to screw on. I'm very reluctant to use force, in case they are somehow not compatible threads. But from what I am reading, there is only one standard that both the bike frame and the bottom bracket should be conforming to.

Am I missing something here?

Which way are you turning the cup on the drive side?  You need to turn it anti clockwise to tighten

[Bernster]

If it's any help, I've had loads of issues getting a new BB into my Day One, with clean threads and copper slip - don't know whether the new BB I have (which is the correct specification) is slightly oversized or the threads on the frame are slightly the wrong size/spacing. In the end, a lot of brute force, which almost resulted in a broken finger was the order of the day. I'm certainly not looking forward to replacing it again. I'm pretty sure I've not cross threaded it, as now it's in place, it sits totally flush with the frame, but I guess anything is possible given my lack of mechanical competence.

[BFC]

For British Standard (BSA) bottom brackets the current interpreptation is a 1.37", this has been rounded down from the original 1 3/8" (1.375) x 24tpi, so on old frames a lot of replacement BBs can feel loose - but it's only 5/1000" (0.127mm) error. In reality manufacturing tolerances and tool wear contribute a greater variance in actual size and thread form quality.
Then add a bit of paint or corrossion to the threads, especially if a new BB cup goes in further than the old ones, and its no surprise that sometimes BBs don't fit too well.
I have thread cutters/cleaners for the frame and the cups (BSA only), also suit standard fixed wheel hub threads.
For the threads the left hand (non drive) side is a right handed thread, and the right hand (drive) side is a left handed thread. Very easy to get mixed up when working on a frame, especially if it's upside down or you've turned it around to work on the other side.

And for anyone considering an old Raliegh frame, anything made in Nottingham (up to the early 90's?) they used a different thread (1 3/8" x 26tpi) to the rest of the planet, BSA cups feel like they should fit but bind after a while. Raleigh threads cannot be recut ot fit BSA parts - not enough material left.

[Oscar's dad]

Love it! 

[Bernster]

This man knows what he's talking about 

[psyclist]

Thanks for all the help on the BB issue I was having. It is now fitted (temporarily, awaiting Copper grease), and I have just one issue remaining. I tightened the non-drive crank heaps, and eventually had to stop as any more tightening would result in the non-drive crank hitting the frame. When I take it off I may check to see if the spacer would be better put on that side ... the BB instructions suggested otherwise, but as they were proposing fitting the BB the opposite way to how it could be fitted, maybe I should have switched the spacer over.

And for anyone considering an old Raliegh frame, anything made in Nottingham (up to the early 90's?) they used a different thread (1 3/8" x 26tpi) to the rest of the planet, BSA cups feel like they should fit but bind after a while. Raleigh threads cannot be recut ot fit BSA parts - not enough material left.

I've got a Carlton Pro-Am built circa 1978 that I will be returning to its former glory at some point. Given that Raleigh owned Carlton, it sounds like this is a fact I should take note of.

[BFC]

Thanks for all the help on the BB issue I was having. It is now fitted (temporarily, awaiting Copper grease), and I have just one issue remaining. I tightened the non-drive crank heaps, and eventually had to stop as any more tightening would result in the non-drive crank hitting the frame. When I take it off I may check to see if the spacer would be better put on that side ... the BB instructions suggested otherwise, but as they were proposing fitting the BB the opposite way to how it could be fitted, maybe I should have switched the spacer over.

The original BB at 118mm is 5mm longer than that fitted to the genesis flyer (2017 model, C33's bike) which is a standard 120mm single speed rear axle.
You may need to fit the BB cups with one or more 2.5mm spacers between frame and cup - 2 spacers is the difference between "road" 68mm and "MTB" 73mm spec. The Genesis day ones disc brake rear hubs are probably MTB 135mm axle (worth checking!), so its anyones guess at what combination of bits are required to get the chainline correct when putting a new crankset on.

The Miche Evo Max BBs are a direct replacent/equivalent of shimano hollowtech 2 (24mm spindle, both sides).

I have fitted a Miche Pistard crankset onto one of my track bikes (traditional 43mm chainline and 120mm rear hub) using Shimano DA BB cups without any spacers or tweaking. Clearance between crank arms and chain stays is 3mm on a frame that is designed for 23mm tyres.

[rob]

I'm using SRAM Omniums on 2 bikes and a Miche Pistard Air on the race bike.

The Omniums come with their own BB so just fitted as standard.   The Miche is coupled with a Hope BB and doesn't look like it required a spacer.   All the bikes have 120mm back ends.

(I didn't fit any of them as I'm a ham fisted mechanic).

[tedshred]

I have a SRAM Omnium on my flyer - chainline is spot on and, as Rob said, the BB (which is SRAM GPX) goes on no problem.  It is a nice system.  I did fit mine even though I am a famously ham-fisted mechanic.

Andy C3333333333333333 is about to build up an old Raleigh frame into a fixed wheel machine so that might be interesting.  BFC, you have been warned 

[BFC]

I've got a Carlton Pro-Am built circa 1978 that I will be returning to its former glory at some point. Given that Raleigh owned Carlton, it sounds like this is a fact I should take note of.

The Carlton factory used BSA tooling, some high end Ralieghs were made at the Carlton factory and had BSA bottom brackets (and headset threads). Raliegh threaded BB's are 71 or 76mm wide apparently, if the BB is 68mm wide it's BSA threading. It was only the Raliegh factory at Nottingham that used the Raliegh specific tooling. Some other clues for a Raliegh Nottingham frame include: Mudgaurd eyelets on the rear of the rear dropouts, rather than the top and 1" (25.4mm) seat post.

[bobb]

The Essex 3R's route check perm ride on Sunday 1st November departing the Witham Labour Hall at 10am is now full.

1. OD
2. huggy
3. Tomsk
4. bobb
5. BFC
6. Deniece

Due to current restrictions there will be no (organised) 'spoons breakfast and post-ride refreshments.  I intend to ride entirely self-sufficient with maybe one outside café or shop stop in Stock.

I assume we're still on and it's just a case of turning up on Sunday at the Labour Hall at 10 am with plenty of supplies (and a mask... or gimp suit)?

[Oscar's dad]

Yes, it was discussed yesterday evening and it’s still on. huggy is really excited and has ordered a new gimp suit especially, crotchless as well!  Good to see AUK organisers pushing the boat out.

[bobb]

Awesome 

[tedshred]

EER's tour of COVID secure and Tier 2 friendly hostelries brought us to the Swan at Totham yesterday evening.

The Swan is one of an increasing number of pubs that has laid on covered and heated outside seating that allows us to continue to meet as a group of 6 as the weather deteroriates whilst keeping everyone on the right side of the rules.

I arrived to be welcomed by a large but friendly dog and an equally friendly and licky but slighly less furry Fandango.  He had managed to make it all the way from Colchester by bike.

We were soon joined by the Blase Brewer, the Serene Sex Whale and Serge Fondler.  Evenutally EER's answer to Ferdinand Magellan completed our party having managed to navigate his way there from all of 7 miles away by a series of searching loops.

It was pleasantly warm under the heater which was just as well as Serge was buffless and feeling a bit lost without the usual comfort of something warm and hairy close to his face.   

Many pubs at the moment are either short of supplies of cask beer or unwilling to stock too much of it but the Swan presented us with a choice of 4.  We sampled Crouch Vale's Ten 64,  Mighty Oak's Captain Bob and Crouch Vale's Brewers Gold.  With a rare full quorum of the Quaffers' Committee on hand to judge (only our office junior was missing), Ten 64 was duly anointed as the Quaffers' Choice.  Magellan, meanwhile, was sitting at a separate table nurturing a pint of Guinness and muttering to himself about iron deficiency.

Inevitably, much of the evening was taken up with planning and rehearsing our off off off Broadway musical.  I can't reveal too much at this stage other than it is set in Russia and will feature the return of Epiphany hearthrob Svetlana as a special guest star.  Those Russians !

As seems to be tradition now, we were joined by the landlord towards the end of the evening.  It seems to be a mixture of being pleased to see a group of new people turn up and a chance to vent about the precarious state of the hospitality trade.  Who knew that EER/MEMWNs would become so welcome - even with Magellan in tow    The Swan is another to add to the list of pubs that deserve our support.

It was a wet and blustery ride home but mainly with a welcome tailwind.  I had to chaperone Fandango back towards Colchester - it's not easy towing someone home when they are already 500 yards ahead of you and their twinkling tail light is disappearing fast.  I think I really helped him though.

[Carlosfandango]

Sorry ted, I got a bit carried away, I thought you were keeping up, until I saw you weren't. Er, I did slow down and wait, did you make a hedge stop?

[Oscar's dad]

Oh dear ted, you've committed a faux pas and endangered national security all in one go!  And you a holder of High Office, you really should know better. 

Svetlana didn't want it known she was a gnat's cock away from announcing her first musical off off off Broadway.  It's a story which will cause shock waves around the globe as draws back the veil of secrecy which has surrounded the 3-way relationship between successive US presidents and successive Soviet/Russian leaders and a pair of double agents who for years masqueraded as a Cockney singing duo - you've guessed it - Chas & Dave!

Chas & Dave's hit records were in fact coded messages which were finally cracked by a top secret cyber security establishment in Chelmsford, not Bletchley Park but Admiral's Park - it was hid in plain sight you see.  Anyhow, Svetlana has turned the whole story into a musical incorporating Chas & Dave's back catalogue of course.

In her spare time Svetlana has also been teaching Russian to Jem!

[tedshred]

did you make a hedge stop?

Yeah, rub it in go on.

[tedshred]

Oh dear ted, you've committed a faux pas and endangered national security all in one go!  And you a holder of High Office, you really should know better. 

Svetlana didn't want it known she was a gnat's cock away from announcing her first musical off off off Broadway.  It's a story which will cause shock waves around the globe as draws back the veil of secrecy which has surrounded the 3-way relationship between successive US presidents and successive Soviet/Russian leaders and a pair of double agents who for years masqueraded as a Cockney singing duo - you've guessed it - Chas & Dave!

Chas & Dave's hit records were in fact coded messages which were finally cracked by a top secret cyber security establishment in Chelmsford, not Bletchley Park but Admiral's Park - it was hid in plain sight you see.  Anyhow, Svetlana has turned the whole story into a musical incorporating Chas & Dave's back catalogue of course.

In her spare time Svetlana has also been teaching Russian to Jem!

We were talking about the other musical but well done for giving away all Svelana's secrets.  She'll be mad at you when you next see her.  Come to think of it, I still haven't seen you together...

[Oscar's dad]

Oh dear ted, you've committed a faux pas and endangered national security all in one go!  And you a holder of High Office, you really should know better. 

Svetlana didn't want it known she was a gnat's cock away from announcing her first musical off off off Broadway.  It's a story which will cause shock waves around the globe as draws back the veil of secrecy which has surrounded the 3-way relationship between successive US presidents and successive Soviet/Russian leaders and a pair of double agents who for years masqueraded as a Cockney singing duo - you've guessed it - Chas & Dave!

Chas & Dave's hit records were in fact coded messages which were finally cracked by a top secret cyber security establishment in Chelmsford, not Bletchley Park but Admiral's Park - it was hid in plain sight you see.  Anyhow, Svetlana has turned the whole story into a musical incorporating Chas & Dave's back catalogue of course.

In her spare time Svetlana has also been teaching Russian to Jem!

We were talking about the other musical but well done for giving away all Svelana's secrets.  She'll be mad at you when you next see her.  Come to think of it, I still haven't seen you together...

Oh the web I/we weave 

[Tomsk]

Meanwhile back in the Western Fringes, we paid another visit to out now-usual outside table at the Spiritual Home. There, I found psyclist already ensconced - I think I picked up his wheel tracks at Bishop's Green, then via Pleshey and the old brewery. Nik's Nick arrived and a little later New Nick via a long, wiggly route from Mile End and introductions were made. Nik's Nick is now stuck with being Old Nick ... the Quaffer's Choice was the also appropriately Halloween-y Bishop Nick Witchhunt, though Crouch Vale's Ten 46 was also sampled: dark and chewy as well.

No heating, (although at the furthest table from the open side), so we huddled together for warmth, as much as you can in a socially distant way. New Nick resolved to cover his knees from now on and we all decided a bigger saddlebag was needed for extra layers. The pub was quiet so we had lots of attention from Eileen, though this may have increased the beer n'chips consumption.

[rob]

Meanwhile back in the Western Fringes, we paid another visit to out now-usual outside table at the Spiritual Home. There, I found psyclist already ensconced - I think I picked up his wheel tracks at Bishop's Green, then via Pleshey and the old brewery. Nik's Nick arrived and a little later New Nick via a long, wiggly route from Mile End and introductions were made. Nik's Nick is now stuck with being Old Nick ... the Quaffer's Choice was the also appropriately Halloween-y Bishop Nick Witchhunt, though Crouch Vale's Ten 46 was also sampled: dark and chewy as well.

No heating, (although at the furthest table from the open side), so we huddled together for warmth, as much as you can in a socially distant way. New Nick resolved to cover his knees from now on and we all decided a bigger saddlebag was needed for extra layers. The pub was quiet so we had lots of attention from Eileen, though this may have increased the beer n'chips consumption.

At some point last night I recalled that I had friends in a pub about 2 miles from my front door.   I really should put a bit more effort in.

[Tomsk]

Although I'd happily go to the Spiritual Home every week, we need to find a western-ish pub, (with a heated outdoor, but undercover area), for a bit of variety in the ride to and from. So far I have managed to go a different route there every time, but unless I start doing some longer, more convoluted ways it could get a bit same-y.