Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => On The Road => Topic started by: nuttycyclist on March 20, 2010, 12:22:26 am

Title: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 20, 2010, 12:22:26 am
Following on from Southend Cycle Town (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28729.0) I thought I'd provide an update.

Southend Council are now constructing a "City Beach Scheme", it's got cycle paths and Palm Trees and everyfink.  I'm excited about it and looking forward to seeing the plans they're bringing to the next cycle group meeting on the 29th March  :thumbsup:


...   only trouble is....

errr....

They're already building it!  Speaking to the construction workers the completion of the cycle path has to be completed by the end of March in readiness for an event.   So we're seeing the plans on 29th March, for comment, and the scheme deadline is two days later on the 31st!!!!!


So... what's been built?

Southend Seafront was captured by google last year looking like this (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Southend-on-Sea,+Essex,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.533323,0.709605&spn=0,359.98071&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.533337,0.709764&panoid=lw0uUmMHJdzz3VpDWDqeeQ&cbp=12,273.58,,0,2.05).  From the same location (but a lower viewpoint) it now looks like this
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/Southend%20Cycle%20Town/141_1650.jpg)

They have constructed a 2.5m wide cycle path where the parking used to be.  

I have asked the Council about this and have been told
"The Western Esplanade works will be a Hybrid Cycle Lane. You can see example of these going in around the country. A Hybrid Cycle Lane is one where the footway, cycleway and carriageway are all separated and a different levels (see link for a picture of one Cambridge Cycling Campaign » Newsletter 74 (October/November 2007) (http://www.camcycle.org.uk/newsletters/74/article15.html) ).

It will be a two way cycle lane"

Now those linked photos are fine, but they all show a wide cycle path far away from the road carriageway.  This new path is just 2.5m wide and there is no seperation from the traffic.

LTN2/08 (http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/ltnotes/ltn208.pdf) clearly says things such as (my bold)
8.5.1 The minimum widths given in this section relate to what is physically required for the convenient passage of a small number of users. They do not take into account the need for increased width to accommodate larger user flows. Wherever it is possible, widths larger than the minimum should be used.  Practitioners should not regard minimum widths as design targets.

8.2.2 A design speed of 20 mph is preferred for offroad routes intended predominantly for utility cycling**. This provides a margin of safety for most cyclists.  The average speed of cyclists on a level surface is around 12 mph.

8.1.2 In general, offroad cycle routes in urban areas tend to be the least desired option, and it is usually better to cater for urban cyclists onroad if this is practicable.

8.5.2 ... The minimum recommended width for a two way cycle track is 3 metres. If these widths cannot be realised, the facility may become difficult for some people to use....

8.5.3 In all cases where a cycle track or footway is bounded by a vertical feature such as a wall, railings or kerb, an additional allowance should be made, as the very edge of the path cannot be used
...Low upstand up to 150 mm  -  Add 200 mm
Vertical feature from 150 mm to 1.2 metres*  -  Add 250 mm...



At just 2.5m wide instead of 3.2m wide, do you think this is a bit narrow?

Now for the more serious thoughts...
 - All design documents refer to cyclists as 1metre wide, requiring additional 0.5m "wobble space".  This is why two way paths are recommended as 3m wide.

 - As it's a two way cycle route eastbound cyclists will need to thread the needle between oncoming cyclists and 30mph oncoming motor traffic.

 - Cycle tracks are to encourage novice cyclists, and family leisure cyclists.  Would you be happy bringing your family down here where there's a risk that your children might meander into the path of oncoming traffic?  I'm not.

 - In France, British motorists have to fit adapters to prevent their headlights blinding oncoming traffic to their left.  Motorists won't fit these adapters just to drive along the Southend Seafront, so therefore cyclists are going to be dazzled at night and therefore going to find it even harder to spot the gap between traffic and oncoming cyclists.

 - The cycle track is around two inches higher than the carriageway.  Therefore if a cyclist swerves onto the carriageway into oncoming traffic they CANNOT swerve back onto the cycle track as they'll get tripped over and fall off  >:(

For additional thoughts, the carriageway here floods in heavy rain.  The drains look like this
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/Southend%20Cycle%20Town/141_1649.jpg)

The camera broke when I dropped it, but these drains are still in use, but the bottom half is now obstructed by the tarmac surface of the cycle lane!  In strong winds sand blows across the existing carriageway only to be swept away by car tyres.  What will happen in the future?  I expect the cycle track to get covered in sand* and also flooded whenever it rains; the carriageway will also flood in the rain and the cyclists will get drenched by passing motorists.


I really think that creating a two way cycle track at just 2.5m wide and not segregated from the traffic is a nightmare here.  I am sh:tting myself.


So what's happening elsewhere?

Wowbagger posted a photo of Prittlewell Chase some time ago.  They've finished painting the lanes now.  I've been reassured that this is "a 0.5m door zone with a 1.5m cycle lane".

This might be what the asked for... but the parking bays are too narrow for a car to fit in
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/Southend%20Cycle%20Town/141_1644.jpg)

The door zone is actually 0.43m wide

The cycle lane is 1.3m wide reducing to 0.43m (yes forty three centimetres) in places
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/Southend%20Cycle%20Town/141_1641.jpg)


I give up.  I really do.
 :-\ >:( :-\ >:( :-\ >:( >:(








* I used a sand covered seafront cycle track in France once.  The sand caused other cyclists to lose traction and fall off.

** The seafront route is well used by cycle commuters.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Charlotte on March 20, 2010, 12:35:05 am
Bummer, Nutty  :(

I hope they're having a Grand Opening Ceremony.

We can all show up and cycle along the road.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 20, 2010, 12:42:11 am
Bummer, Nutty  :(

I hope they're having a Grand Opening Ceremony.

We can all show up and cycle along the road.

I'd prefer it if we can arrange for their opening ceremony to be heading east.

We could arrange a forum ride to be heading west at the same time.

It'd be a real shame if the councillors had to take avoiding action into the path of oncoming traffic wouldn't it?




But joking aside, I am really really scared that this will happen for real and a child will be killed in front of their family  >:( >:( >:( :facepalm:

What the hell can we do?

Why the hell are we not allowed to see the plans until the 29th March?  I've been specifically asking for them but told I can't see them.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Charlotte on March 20, 2010, 12:45:43 am
What the hell can we do?

Nocturnal pavement art?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: fred the great on March 20, 2010, 04:50:26 am
What I find hard to understand is that Southend is supposed to be a Cycle Town but there exists a great deal of animosity between the Council and the resident Cyclists? The Council also has problems with other planning developments.

Perhaps somebody should attempt  to cure the problem and to stop fighting. I am sure this could improve your circumstances.

Reconcilliation is clearly needed ;)

Also it seems from my reading here that Southend is the only Council in the UK that has these issues?

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on March 20, 2010, 08:37:47 am
That's awful Nutty!  Good work on exposing their negligent designs.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: spindrift on March 20, 2010, 11:58:06 am
Start a "Crap Cycling in Southend" blog.


Cycle lanes carefully painted in the door zone irritate the hell out of me, Waltham Forest have got loads of them.

Because I don't want to lose a testicle or smash my hand I ride a door's width away....and get bibbed.

The council are steering cyclists straight into danger.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on March 20, 2010, 12:12:14 pm
That does look like one crappy cycle lane. Having cyclists ride between oncoming cycles on one side and oncoming cars on the other is crazy. You call it "threading the needle" but a more appropriate analogy might be "cyclist sandwich". And the door zone thing, it looks from the photo as if any opening car door will take the whole cycle lane, not just the 0.5m (or 43cm - I suppose they're counting the width of the white line as part of the zone?) alloted.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: spindrift on March 20, 2010, 12:27:36 pm
I think being doored is in the top four causes of cyclist accidents. The nocturnal art could involve spraying:



"Warning, this cycle lane places you in harm's way".
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Kathy on March 20, 2010, 04:30:03 pm
And the door zone thing, it looks from the photo as if any opening car door will take the whole cycle lane, not just the 0.5m (or 43cm - I suppose they're counting the width of the white line as part of the zone?) alloted.

!(nuttyy on kathyss iphhome.)
the lines are counted in their 50cn measurenemts.  Twice! The line contributes to the width of both the doop zone as well sa the cycle lane... But the lane still isn't at the1.5m thet claim  >:(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on March 20, 2010, 05:01:58 pm
I use the Prittlewell Chase lanes most days, quite happy to do so.
I cant see who will use the path being constructed along the seafront though, unless you are travelling to the West. Anyone going East would be using the road imo. Using the path in a East direction what happens at Peter Pans?
I used the road along the seafront a few weeks ago, the amount of abuse I got from passing motorists was quite frankly shocking. I cant recall anything similar in over 30 years of cycling in this area. Part of the driving public in Southend is becoming very hostile to cyclists from what I am seeing.
Nutty, that is an excellant point about the car headlights. Could you ask for a 'risk assesment' to be done?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 20, 2010, 09:33:57 pm
I use the Prittlewell Chase lanes most days, quite happy to do so.
...
Part of the driving public in Southend is becoming very hostile to cyclists from what I am seeing.
...

The Prittlewell Chase lanes have me divided in my mind.   (I've been cycling that way daily a lot recently)
Good points in my mind.
1) It used to be a bit funny cycling there as you weren't really in one lane (because of parked cars) or the outside lane (because there was plenty of room between the parked cars and passing traffic).  Now there are distinct areas for motorists and cyclists.
2) This is a school area, so provision is being provided for novice cyclists.

Bad points in my mind.
1) Now that cyclists and motorists aren't sharing the same road space and there is a distinct place for cyclists, I think that motor traffic speed has increased.  This is worst amongst the buses and the road carriageway left is exactly a bus width wide...  they almost intrude into the cycle lane.
2) The lane is narrower than I've been told they planned it (and less than the 1.5m recommended minimum), and the "door zone" really is taking the mick.


Whilst it's good that "something was done" I think that the lane is encouraging cyclists to be closer to the parked cars than they should be, and for the overtaking traffic speed to have increased and be putting the cyclist at more risk.

The worst scenario I've had along there was when the bus was in the bus stop.  I couldn't get out into the 30mph rush hour traffic, and didn't fit down the 43cm bit photographed above.  Therefore, for the first time ever, I had to park the bicycle behind the bus until it left.  Before the lane for cyclists was painted I never had to stop cycling.


Having said all that, I'm not going to be campaigning much against that lane or for remedial works to be completed.  There are much more dangerous schemes they're creating and that we need to tackle.



I think that the reason that the motorists in Southend are becoming anti-cyclist is that they are seeing the speed cushions going in everywhere, they're seeing money being thrown at cyclists for schemes such as the seafront, and they're seeing more and more congestion being caused by these works.  Now that Southend is a Cycle Town motorists are blaming us for the worsening road conditions.  Just look at lots of the letters appearing in the local papers.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Charlotte on March 20, 2010, 11:33:34 pm
!(nuttyy on kathyss iphhome.)

:o
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on March 20, 2010, 11:59:39 pm
What I find hard to understand is that Southend is supposed to be a Cycle Town but there exists a great deal of animosity between the Council and the resident Cyclists? The Council also has problems with other planning developments.

Perhaps somebody should attempt  to cure the problem and to stop fighting. I am sure this could improve your circumstances.

Reconcilliation is clearly needed ;)

Also it seems from my reading here that Southend is the only Council in the UK that has these issues?

Clearly, Southend gets a lot of publicity in these pages because there are three or four regular contributors who know the Council of old. Believe me, they haven't changed in the 50 years or so since the late Paul Foot referred to them from his Private Eye column as "My favourite Council" because they gave him so much material to work with. You can't work with a Council that deliberately targets for harrassment those of its citizens it doesn't like, even if the said citizens haven't campaigned against Council policy for 6 years or so.

My pal the Head Teacher and one if his senior staff always refer to the Southend Council as "The Good Ole Boys".
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 21, 2010, 12:05:46 am
!(nuttyy on kathyss iphhome.)

:o

Yes, sorry about that.  Kathy was reading the forum and I asked about this thread, and then wanted to reply with the details around the widths of the lanes.

Like an idiot I forgot I could have walked to the other end of the house and borrowed the use of a PC, and tried to just use the "user friendly intuitive device".  Oh boy, they pain of trying to highlight a section of text (without dragging the website sideways off the screen) and the embarrassment of having to ask my little sis how to use technology  :-\ :-[  

It was even worse when I found the delete button (it's where the return key is on a normal keyboard folks) and started deleting the quote letter by letter.  I was proud to have found this, and tapped away, until Kathy pointed out that I was now continually typing the letter L into the text as my fingers are too fat  >:(

Still, after 5 minutes of effort I did proudly manage my second post from an iPhone.

Normal service will now be resumed......   blommin apple etc etc etc.  ;D
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 21, 2010, 12:13:45 am
...
Perhaps somebody should attempt  to cure the problem and to stop fighting. I am sure this could improve your circumstances.

...

I have lost count of the number of times over the last ten years that I have attempted this.

I have offered my time, freely and at their convenience, to review the road scheme designs at development time so that cycling issues can be ironed out before they are constructed and waste public money.  This offer has never been taken up and instead I spend most of my time writing to the Council complaining about what they have constructed.

When they asked for my help on the Cycle Town Scheme (they only come to us if they want to prove they are "consulting with the relevant parties" I reluctantly agreed, because I want to move forwards, and I thanked them that they were creating the cycle group with the purpose as posted and linked above.  Instead they have ignored us and bludgeoned their own way forwards without any actual consultation.   Just look at the fact they have a construction deadline just 2 days after they will let us see the plans for the first time!   

I have held individual meetings with them, outside of the cycle forum, where I have requested these plans so that I can review them at my leisure and so waste the least time in the cycle group meeting.  They have refused to let me have any prior view, so in our meeting we will have one short agenda item in which we will have first sight of the plans, then decide how to respond.  A very inefficient use of time and resource?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: fred the great on March 21, 2010, 03:27:26 am
But it will obviously take more than one person to change Southend Council into a responsible organization.

1,000's of Protesters at the Council Office may persuade them to correct their attitude more quickly ;)

Or is there any other way to replace them? National and local Newspaper reports? TV Reporting? Legal methods? as in failure of the Council and it's Staff to carry out their duties in accordance with the Law or in a Professional manner? 1000's of letters of complaint sent to your local MP's? and so on.

Perhaps a few virtual bombs like the above mentioned could wake them up :P

Best of luck but you do need a substantial group approach not scattered supporters.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on March 21, 2010, 07:32:36 am
Quote
Bad points in my mind.

Another bad point (Prittlewell Chase) heading towards the town, just after the school gates where the road turns to the right. If you ride towards the outside of the lane, as I do, when a bus comes from behind they are unable to pass due to the overhang at the front of the bus. This has been no problem so far, I would like to think the reason for that is the bus companies have been made aware of this and drivers told to take extra care and drive with caution in that area. They should be anyway, as in any civil society, given the road is adjacent to a school.
Overall though it has improved my commute, but the bigger picture, Southend as a cycling town  :hand:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on March 21, 2010, 05:46:27 pm
I had a ride along the seafront this morning to look at the new facility. There is going to be an accident here without doubt. I can also see drivers parking cars on the lane as there doesnt seem as though there will be anything in place to stop them.
I had an e-mail from the hospital travel plan coordinator last week, on Monday there is going to be someone from the council to tell us about cycling in Southend, cycle training etc. If I get time I will try and talk to them, but it all depends how busy things are.
Nutty if you are about, or anyone else its from 0930 untill 1130, boardroom at the old entrance, afaik its not just for hospital employees, anyway the hospital belongs to us all.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 21, 2010, 09:03:06 pm
That sounds like one of their back slapping bigging the project up type publicity events.  I'll be at work  >:( but I doubt that it's the right place for me to come to to ask specific questions around designs.

Have you seen their latest publicity website?  Home (http://www.cyclesouthend.co.uk)

If you do go, please can you ask the simple question of "what plans are being put in place to cater for the increased accident rate amongst cyclists?"


I'm still trying to get hold of plans in advance, but please can I suggest all local cyclists attend next Monday's cycle group?  29th March 2010  19:00-21:30   Committee Room 6 at the Civic Centre.  

This is a meeting for you, and that you are invited to.
Appendix B of item 591 of the cabinet minutes (http://minutes.southend.gov.uk/akssouthend/users/public/admin/kab12.pl?cmte=CAB&meet=64&arc=71#egenkabid37) states
Quote
The Cycling Group is open to organisations, groups and individuals that wish to become involved in the Cycling Southend Programme to promote Southend as a Cycling Town. The Group will appoint two representatives to the Cycling Southend Stakeholder Group to represent the views of the cycle user particularly in matters of design and cycling promotion.

Primarily the Group will offer sound practical advice to the Project Board and harness the experience and enthusiasm of Southend cyclists, particularly in relation to:-

Receiving reports and updates from the Borough Council on the progress of schemes and future plans;
Commenting on proposals and offering constructive advice working with the Project Board;
Bringing ideas and proposals forward that support the aims and objectives of the Cycling Southend Programme via their representation on the Stakeholder Group
Helping with awareness raising promotions and events;
Participating in road safety events to raise the profile of safer cycling;
Working with the Council`s “Bike Squad” to promote cycling to employers, schools, public etc.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: fred the great on March 22, 2010, 08:13:44 am
I have just e-mailed the following to Cycling Southend. I  am sure it will do no good other than to warn them that the World is watching their antics. I didn't wish to be specific about their plans which would have weakened the impact of what I was requesting to one element only.

To:-Cycling Southend.

"Yes, As a lifelong cyclist I am pleased that you classify Southend as a Cycling City.
But I am very unhappy with the Council's attitude towards it's resident cyclists. I read of reports where you totally ignore their sincere attempts to help with your decisions. All I can see from photographs taken of your cycle lanes and other road markings are some rather poor and inexperienced decisions. Decisions which were never taken by people with "real" cycling experience.
May I therefore request you get to closer to the people who you say you represent and hopefully this will then assist you to redirect some funds to correct your various mistakes so far,
Regards,
Laurence Jerams."
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on March 22, 2010, 11:49:28 am
just spoke to the reps from sbc, but l am sure its fallen on deaf ears  >:(
their words, 'even if its bad, its better to do something rather than nothing'  >:(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 22, 2010, 12:09:53 pm
... 'even if its bad, its better to do something rather than nothing'  >:(

 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Andrij on March 22, 2010, 12:19:34 pm
... 'even if its bad, its better to do something rather than nothing'  >:(

I await this policy being carried over to the road network.  If it's good enough for cyclists...
 
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: gordon taylor on March 22, 2010, 06:17:15 pm
... 'even if its bad, its better to do something rather than nothing'  >:(

I await this policy being carried over to the road network.  If it's good enough for cyclists...
 

That's the bit that drives me insane. Our local major cycle path (A34 dual carriageway) is nearly finished and looks great, but the sticky-up diagonal kerbs, the sign post in the path and the bus stop overhang at cycling head height would be unthinkable on a "real" road. We get fobbed of with a bit of spare space and are supposed to be grateful!

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 22, 2010, 08:55:05 pm
It's not as bad as others  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Leatherhead, thanks to Kathy --->  Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket (http://pbckt.com/s0.l8A)
(Please reply to the thread here ----> Cycle lanes of Leatherhead (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=31213.0)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 22, 2010, 09:12:10 pm
I cycled home along here tonight.  The cones have gone and the new paint is starting to go down.  The central island car parking bays are being angled to make it easier for drivers to pull in.

1) The new lane markings are so narrow that drivers have to straddle them and the parking bays to pass an on-carriageway cyclist (I have been assured by the council that the lanes will remain wide enough for commuting/racing cyclists to remain on the carriageway).  Tonight there were no parked cars, so it was safe... what will happen when there are parked cars?

2) I've realised that a driver reversing from the bays cannot see easily, so we'll continue to see the current state of affairs of drivers leaving the bays and the passing motorists hitting the brakes/swerving.  They'll swerve onto the cycle lane won't they  :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on March 23, 2010, 06:23:36 am
Quote
They'll swerve onto the cycle lane won't they   

The reason for a 50mm drop kerb, seems like its nothing to do with cycling to me >:(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 26, 2010, 03:53:11 pm
I have now received a copy of the drawings in preparation for Monday's meeting.

I don't know which of these best expresses my feelings. 
 :hand:    >:(     :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:



In the OP you'll see a link to streetview, which shows parked cars, and my photo from the same location without parking bays.  You'll also see a photo of a car separated from the cycle lane by a "0.5m buffer" (their words).

The plans show that the car parking spaces will return, with a 0.5m buffer.

Where the cycle path goes in front of the casino there is no buffer zone at all.  Each week as I commute along here I often see a car dropping off passengers or a taxi picking them up.  Will these cars park on the cycle path, or immediately alongside it in the carriageway?

Would anybody be willing to open a book for me on the date of the first dooring incident when a passenger opens the door into the cycle path?


Where the scheme passes the casino the carriageway width marked on the plan is 3.25m.
LTN2/08 (http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/ltnotes/ltn208.pdf) table 2.3
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/misc/LTN2-08-table2-3.jpg)

So despite my comments that this is a commuter route and cyclists will prefer the road over the path, and despite the project manager assuring me that the road would be wide enough for cyclists to remain on-carriageway... they're painting a lane NARROWER than required for 20mph traffic.  >:( >:( >:(




And don't start me on about the rest of these plans  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Tewdric on March 26, 2010, 03:58:20 pm
I have now received a copy of the drawings in preparation for Monday's meeting.

I don't know which of these best expresses my feelings.  
 :hand:    >:(     :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:



In the OP you'll see a link to streetview, which shows parked cars, and my photo from the same location without parking bays.  You'll also see a photo of a car separated from the cycle lane by a "0.5m buffer" (their words).

The plans show that the car parking spaces will return, with a 0.5m buffer.

Where the cycle path goes in front of the casino there is no buffer zone at all.  Each week as I commute along here I often see a car dropping off passengers or a taxi picking them up.  Will these cars park on the cycle path, or immediately alongside it in the carriageway?

Would anybody be willing to open a book for me on the date of the first dooring incident when a passenger opens the door into the cycle path?


Where the scheme passes the casino the carriageway width marked on the plan is 3.25m.
LTN2/08 (http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/ltnotes/ltn208.pdf) table 2.3
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/misc/LTN2-08-table2-3.jpg)

So despite my comments that this is a commuter route and cyclists will prefer the road over the path, and despite the project manager assuring me that the road would be wide enough for cyclists to remain on-carriageway... they're painting a lane NARROWER than required for 20mph traffic.  >:( >:( >:(




And don't start me on about the rest of these plans  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

As an experiment, it might be worth the CTC trying to get someone involved who could cause some problems for the council.  Off the top of my head:

DfT direct or via your MP,
RoSPA
Health and Safety Executive
Motor Insurer's Bureau or similar trade association (accidents mean payouts mean less profit for their members)
Police traffic department

I don't think there's scope to JR road layout decisions but if the project went through the planning process it would be.

There's a strong suspicion in my mind that schemes like this are designed to spend ringfenced money on creating miles of cycle lane that tick a  performance indicator box for the local authority on which further funding relies.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on March 26, 2010, 03:59:22 pm
I think I've lost the plot a little. This lane is a two way lane like the Thorpe Bay section? Is the cliff side of the road losing its cycle lane?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 26, 2010, 04:37:22 pm
Yes it's "two way lane like the Thorpe Bay section".  But unlike that there is no physical separation from the traffic.

From my local knowledge, although I don't often cycle the seafront in an easterly direction, the current east bound cycle lane stops at the arches cafes (before Shorefield Road) and doesn't reappear until the two way dedicated lane at the old gasworks jetty (now demolished).

The plans show that the east bound cycle lane stops at the arches and reappears** as a two way dedicated lane on the new bit of tarmac installed between the existing pavement and the old carriageway/parking bays.  The parking bays have been skewed to the diagonal to try to both cater for this intrusion into the carriageway as well as make it easier for motorists to enter them*.

The dedicated two way cycle path then continues  from Shorefield Road to the Three Shells by Simon Lwhatever's radio station.  At this point the easterly lane has a "Turn Right" arrow in it, which points it at the track that goes south of the Adventure Island playground and under the pier.  

Fortunately for my blood pressure the plans run out at this point, before passing under the pier, as last time I walked that way there wasn't enough headroom for pedestrians, let alone cyclists!






* getting out will be hard thanks to the blind spots...


** i.e. a cyclist dismount and WALK over the zebra crossing?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on March 27, 2010, 07:12:03 am
So if I have got this right, the cycle lane from the casino, heading east, will have the prominade to the right, and parked cars to the left?
How will they stop cars parking right up against the kerb?
Then the route crosses the prominade and heads off under the pier, an area that has always had problems with flooding.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on March 27, 2010, 08:04:40 am
The north side of the road is being narrowed to 3.3m to accommodate the slanted parking bays in the centre. What I haven't seen on the plans are cycle stands. They have built a path for families to cycle on but haven't included somewhere to park them when they want to visit the cafes, arcades, or beaches.

I shall use the lane, at least once, to see how it is but I'm not hopeful that I'll ever use more than a couple of times!

Edit: Just back from a pootle along the seafront, from Chalkwell and into Barling, and back. The section under the pier is closed. I hope it's closed for height adjustment because at the moment there is only four feet from floor to ceiling! No evidence of extra cycle parking, yet.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 27, 2010, 08:47:30 pm
1) So if I have got this right, the cycle lane from the casino, heading east, will have the prominade to the right, and parked cars to the left?
2) How will they stop cars parking right up against the kerb?
3) Then the route crosses the prominade and heads off under the pier, an area that has always had problems with flooding.


I've forwarded you a copy of the plans.

Re your three points (numbered by me)
1) Yes you're right.  Pedestrians will be crossing the cycle lane to get to their parked cars.  Beach leisure equipment and picnics will be unloaded from the cars onto the cycle lane.  Doors will be opened into the lane.

2) They can't.  They'll have to hope that motorists will park in the marked bays and not against the kerb to avoid the wing mirrors being clipped by passing motorists (after all, many motorists in the residential areas park up on the kerb so that they're away from the passing traffic...)

3)  Yup  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on March 27, 2010, 10:47:16 pm
Also the 2.5 meter two way cycle lane isnt really 2.5 meters its 2 meters. That looks like a solid line 0.5m into the lane from the drop kerb  :-\
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 27, 2010, 11:10:51 pm
I took the line to represent the flush dropped kerb width.  The 2.5m commented on above is my measurements of the on-site construction including the width of that flush kerb.

I have already noted to ask the meeting whether there will be additional painting etc on the path.

I have already noted that of the 2.5m on-site the southern 0.2m cannot be used due to pedal strike on the pavement (as noted in LTN2/08 etc) and that you can't get too far north if travelling east since your handlebars will strike the oncoming vehicles AND you run a risk of overhanging HGV mirrors striking you in the head.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on March 28, 2010, 10:11:17 am
Quote
I have already noted to ask the meeting whether there will be additional painting etc on the path.

I presume you may have seen this, in ref to Dia. 1012.1  
About halfway down, part 2
The Traffic Signs (Amendment) Regulations and General Directions 2005 (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20051670.htm)

Another concern is the width of these lines, although they show 2.5m width on the plans, the width is pointed to the inside of the line(drop kerb), so thats not 2.5m at all, more like 2.4m.
Doesnt sound like much, but that could be a 2.5m loses 0.5m then a further 0.2m pedal strike plus 0.15m line width depending on which side of the drop kerb the measurement is taken from.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: alexb on March 28, 2010, 10:56:43 am
The Cycling Towns schemes are administered and funded by Cycling England aren't they?
Why not contact them? I was at a meeting a couple of weeks ago and there was a guy from CE presenting data about their first few year's experience.
It was very impressive (if you've never been to one of their "Cycling Towns").

However, it seems the obvious contact point for advice.
The Institute of Advanced Motorists might also be a less obvious route, since they seem supportive of cycling at present.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on March 28, 2010, 11:16:33 am
The Cycling Towns schemes are administered and funded by Cycling England aren't they?
Why not contact them?

I have written to Cycling England and Sustrans (this route is part of NCN16) to express my disbelief, dismay and suspicions about this particular farcility.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 28, 2010, 07:01:00 pm
Can I have the collective help of the forummers please?

A pretty good example of a "hybrid cycle lane" that I loved riding along was in Stanley Park, Vancouver.
streetview (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=stanley+park,+vancouver&sll=51.540905,0.71149&sspn=0.193033,0.617294&ie=UTF8&hq=Stanley+Park&hnear=Stanley+Park,+Vancouver,+BC,+Canada&ll=49.297535,-123.131247&spn=0,359.922838&t=h&z=14&layer=c&cbll=49.297599,-123.13112&panoid=LX09FGP00d-HktUjd3jnyg&cbp=12,50.19,,0,16.13)

You'll note there that in general the cycle path is hugely wide, as is the pavement, and it's properly segregated from the road.

I also recall two signs that were in common use.  Can you find them on streetview?

One was "Faster cyclists please use the road"

The other was "motorists, when overtaking cyclists please change lane".



I want these to take to the Council's meeting tomorrow night.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Diver300 on March 28, 2010, 09:28:12 pm
Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=stanley+park,+vancouver&sll=51.540905,0.71149&sspn=0.193033,0.617294&ie=UTF8&hq=Stanley+Park&hnear=Stanley+Park,+Vancouver,+BC,+Canada&t=h&layer=c&cbll=49.296957,-123.134975&panoid=Mcw2mIiXxYVVsNzdd8YvKA&cbp=12,18.04,,2,8.61&ll=49.296919,-123.134851&spn=0,359.924898&z=14)

That says "Motorists Yield to Cyclists"
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 28, 2010, 10:12:08 pm
Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=stanley+park,+vancouver&sll=51.540905,0.71149&sspn=0.193033,0.617294&ie=UTF8&hq=Stanley+Park&hnear=Stanley+Park,+Vancouver,+BC,+Canada&t=h&layer=c&cbll=49.296957,-123.134975&panoid=Mcw2mIiXxYVVsNzdd8YvKA&cbp=12,18.04,,2,8.61&ll=49.296919,-123.134851&spn=0,359.924898&z=14)

That says "Motorists Yield to Cyclists"

Good start! 

Not one I remember, but one worth bookmarking.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: teethgrinder on March 28, 2010, 10:27:53 pm
Can I have the collective help of the forummers please?


You mean you want some examples of good cycle routes?


Can I tempt you with some hen's teeth, or perhaps a yeti's pogo stick instead?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 28, 2010, 10:57:08 pm
Can I have the collective help of the forummers please?


You mean you want some examples of good cycle routes?


Can I tempt you with some hen's teeth, or perhaps a yeti's pogo stick instead?

I was hoping more for a large number of eyes trawling the streetview in the hope of spotting the signs I remembered.




I've just spotted this (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Stanley+Park&sll=49.29854,-123.120227&sspn=0,359.999397&ie=UTF8&t=h&split=1&rq=1&ev=zi&radius=0.01&hq=Stanley+Park&hnear=&ll=49.29983,-123.120604&spn=0,359.922838&z=14&layer=c&cbll=49.299849,-123.120724&panoid=ydCqmd2AKTGy3xN4eccgJA&cbp=12,331.44,,0,24.27) though, which reminded me of something.   That path is not only much wider than Southend's... it's ONE WAY!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 28, 2010, 11:10:29 pm
Finally. Here's an example of my memory.

link (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Stanley+Park&sll=49.298039,-123.132062&sspn=0.005975,0.01929&ie=UTF8&t=h&split=1&rq=1&ev=zo&radius=0.43&hq=Stanley+Park&hnear=&ll=49.295226,-123.135989&spn=0,359.98071&z=16&layer=c&cbll=49.295284,-123.135891&panoid=EhsTvec9RXUznPmMdZSgaA&cbp=12,7.32,,1,1.45)

Top sign seems to say
15km/h max speed
Cyclists yield to pedestrians
Faster cyclists use <splurdge>   (I recall <splurdge> being "road")

Second sign down seems to say it's a one way route; and for skaters and cyclists to not reverse direction.  Bear in mind this is much wider than the new Southend scheme!

Next sign down seems to be something to do with dogs.

And last, we have a cyclist in casual clothes and without helmet  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on March 29, 2010, 06:33:48 pm
I will not be there tonight, I am knackered  :(

Good luck tonight
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on March 29, 2010, 10:22:14 pm
2 and a half hours of banging my head against a brick wall. Bloody engineer just could not or would not see why the cycle lane is dangerous saying that it had passed a safety audit. Twat. I nearly lost my rag.  >:(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: matthew on March 29, 2010, 10:54:40 pm
2 and a half hours of banging my head against a brick wall. Bloody engineer just could not or would not see why the cycle lane is dangerous saying that it had passed a safety audit. Twat. I nearly lost my rag.  >:(

So ask who performed the audit, what qualifications they have and if they have, and then invite them to ride the farcility with you whilst you talk them through the hazards.  :demon:

I'm sure you could arrange a demonstration by Nutty of a accident occurring (opening a parked car door into his path, left hook at a junction ....)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 30, 2010, 12:19:22 am
2 and a half hours of banging my head against a brick wall. Bloody engineer just could not or would not see why the cycle lane is dangerous saying that it had passed a safety audit. Twat. I nearly lost my rag.  >:(

But don't forget that he's a qualified engineer and got rather cross when I picked up the design guidelines (e.g. LTN2/08) that the Council had brought to the meeting and turned to section 8.5.2.  He knows his subject and didn't need me passing him paperwork.

Also don't forget that not only has it passed a safety audit but that in his opinion the scheme will work very well.

Plus, as they took great care in explaining, it's the best compromise that will satisfy everybody  :facepalm:.  It's nothing like those of us who took part in the route inspections remembered being proposed... but those schemes were costed highly so they've put this in as the best solution.

The engineer couldn't see any problem with commuting cyclists using the road.  It's now reduced to a 3.25m wide lane... this is what Cycling England have to say on lane widths (http://www.dft.gov.uk/cyclingengland/docs/a04_clear_space.pdf) (page 8.)
Quote
Critical Narrow Section 2.75 m - 3.5 m
Cars are unable to overtake cyclists with adequate clearance but some motorists
will still attempt it, even at the bottom of the width range. Lane widths between
2.75m and 3.25m should be avoided in most cases (see text).




Pass me the prozac please.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 30, 2010, 01:11:33 am
I want to cry.

Looking for something else brought me to this streetview scene (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Southend-on-Sea,+Essex,+United+Kingdom&t=h&layer=c&cbll=51.533329,0.70446&panoid=YrvlxRrwsU0e_jYEbybn_g&cbp=12,100.99,,0,22.87&ll=51.533323,0.704606&spn=0,359.98071&z=16).

Look at how wide the lane is.

I'm not really a fan of cycle lanes, but there's plenty of width there for one, on BOTH the east* and west carriageways.

Alternatively, being a seafront promenade, why not just make that wide pavement a shared use one?  ("City** Beach" will be all shared use between the Pier and the Kursaal).


Mind you :)  at least the police are making sure this cycle lane can't be used by pulling somebody over onto it.
silly clicky (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Glenwood+Ave,+Westcliff-on-Sea,+Essex+SS0,+United+Kingdom&sll=51.574856,0.635061&sspn=0.011442,0.038581&ie=UTF8&cd=2&geocode=FUWJEgMd-JcKAA&split=0&hq=&hnear=Essex+SS0,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.531013,0.729389&spn=0.022693,0.077162&t=h&z=14&layer=c&cbll=51.531046,0.729223&panoid=b1KvoVPRpnwt4OzcnQgJRw&cbp=12,173.48,,0,13.24)



* the west carriageway is in the original link, the eastbound carriageway is here (linky) (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Southend-on-Sea,+Essex,+United+Kingdom&t=h&layer=c&cbll=51.533447,0.704615&panoid=ufpHaodALPgBnIxs9M5Rwg&cbp=12,271.28,,0,21.47&ll=51.533336,0.704477&spn=0,359.98071&z=16) but obviously photographed at a different time as all the parking bays are empty.

** Since when was Southend a city?  I thought we had to have a cathedral to be a city?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 30, 2010, 03:06:41 am
More thoughts (I can't sleep).

Project manager mentioned how important it is to get as many people cycling as possible.  He said that the more people that are cycling the safer it becomes, and the more that motorists get used to negotiating cyclists safely.

This is correct, so I asked him why they were constructing this Western Esplanade scheme which gets cyclists off of the road :demon:.  He said he'd tackle that point later on the actual agenda item for this scheme, but it wasn't brought up again as we looked at the schemes informally with everybody and were then asked to email our comments in.



The other point he made was that in lots of areas they're ripping out segregated pavement schemes and replacing them with shared use, because that encourages more responsible cycling and reduces conflict (e.g. when a pedestrian meanders into the cycle lane without looking).

Why then are they creating a segregated scheme here?  What's wrong with learning from other people's mistakes and starting with the best practice? 
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Gandalf on March 30, 2010, 06:34:41 am
2 and a half hours of banging my head against a brick wall. Bloody engineer just could not or would not see why the cycle lane is dangerous saying that it had passed a safety audit. Twat. I nearly lost my rag.  >:(

So ask who performed the audit, what qualifications they have and if they have, and then invite them to ride the farcility with you whilst you talk them through the hazards.  :demon:

I'm sure you could arrange a demonstration by Nutty of a accident occurring (opening a parked car door into his path, left hook at a junction ....)


I wonder how many miles he cycled last year, say to the nearest thousand.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 30, 2010, 02:47:30 pm
...

For additional thoughts, the carriageway here floods in heavy rain.  

...

They say they're sorted out the flooding problem by changing the surface levels.

I went down there at lunch time, after some rainfall.    The road surface and pavement had dried out by the time I got there.  There were puddles on the cycle track.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on March 30, 2010, 04:13:29 pm
...

For additional thoughts, the carriageway here floods in heavy rain.  

...

They say they're sorted out the flooding problem by changing the surface levels.

I went down there at lunch time, after some rainfall.    The road surface and pavement had dried out by the time I got there.  There were puddles on the cycle track.
I refuse to used the Eastern Esplanade section of National Canal Network 16 when it's raining for that reason!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 30, 2010, 04:27:41 pm
National Canal Network

Love it  ;D

They wanted some help with publicity for their cycle town project, does anybody know where we can get a 1.9m wide canal boat?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on March 30, 2010, 04:55:45 pm
I have been lurking around this forum for a while now and felt it was time to stop lurking and start posting.

I attended the cycle forum meeting for the first time last night and wanted to add my tuppence worth too the debate.

One thing that struck me last night was that all of the plans we saw are all now pretty much cast in stone and I can’t see the council changing anything. The representatives from the council did say that copies of the plans would be sent to everyone for them to look at in more detail and then email comments back. As most of the projects are already well underway it seems a little late. I will send my comments back to them but I won’t hold my breath.

When nuttycyclist pointed out that the recommended minimum width for a two way cycle lane is 3.5m the engineer was very quick to respond that he was fully aware of that recommendation. If the engineers were fully aware of the recommendation then why have they gone ahead and totally ignored it?

Whilst looking at the Western Esplanade plan I asked the engineer about an additional line shown on the path that is shown at 0.5m from the kerbstones. He confirmed that this is a solid white line. So what started out as an undersized 2.5m path will be marked out as only having lanes of 1m. Oh and in the wet that white line is going to be like an ice rink.

As for city beach, my own experience of shared space is that it does work well but only when the foot and cycle traffic are at low densities. Even in Holland where they use a lot of shared space they restrict cycling in some busy high streets. During the summer when the shared space gets busy it is going to be almost impossible to do anything other than weave around at a snail’s pace (fine for a 5 year old on their first bike but not for most day to day cycling).

Whilst everyone was looking at and discussing the plans I also raised some questions regarding ASL’s with the engineer. I asked him to confirm how long he felt the lead in lanes should be (I already knew what the answer should be) he confirmed that they should be as long as the expected traffic queue at peak times and a minimum of 30m. After he confirmed this I asked him why the lead in to A13westbound junction with Hamlet Court was only 6 inches.... yes 6 inches not meters or feet... 6 inches... and A13eastbound junction with Milton road is only about 2 meters. The response was that they did not want to encourage cyclists to position themselves in the wrong place in the road so in some cases have reduced (or virtually removed) the lead in. Now to me this is an admission that they have realised that the lead in lanes were put in the wrong place to start with and rather than move them or add a second lead in they have simply reduced them to the point where they are useless.

I understand that the project manager who attended last night is new to the post and wants to put in place a proper consultation process. If the new process is followed and they actually listen then it does seem very positive, but having read of some of the past experiences with the council I again will not hold my breath.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 30, 2010, 05:12:59 pm
...
Whilst everyone was looking at and discussing the plans I also raised some questions regarding ASL’s with the engineer. I asked him to confirm how long he felt the lead in lanes should be (I already knew what the answer should be) he confirmed that they should be as long as the expected traffic queue at peak times and a minimum of 30m. After he confirmed this I asked him why the lead in to A13westbound junction with Hamlet Court was only 6 inches.... yes 6 inches not meters or feet... 6 inches... and A13eastbound junction with Milton road is only about 2 meters. The response was that they did not want to encourage cyclists to position themselves in the wrong place in the road so in some cases have reduced (or virtually removed) the lead in. Now to me this is an admission that they have realised that the lead in lanes were put in the wrong place to start with and rather than move them or add a second lead in they have simply reduced them to the point where they are useless.
...

The original lanes were much longer, but have now been painted out.  This was because they were to the left of the turn left lane.

(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/Southend%20Cycle%20Town/Hamlet2.jpg)
Southend Cycle Town (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28729.0)



That picture also shows quite clearly how their choice of paint colour doesn't show up in all lighting conditions.  A driving colleague thought that it "was a funny colour tarmac pothole repair".


Welcome to the forum (and apologies for not saying hello, I guessed who you were but I was too busy banging my head against a brick wall to be polite).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on March 30, 2010, 05:20:01 pm
Nutty ^ you must have one of the only pictures in existance that shows traffic not entering the pre-painted ASL whilst waiting for the traffic signals  :o :o


Welcome 2_Flat_Erics  :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 01, 2010, 05:56:04 pm
Hi, I'm new to this forum and also a regular Southend cyclist, based in Shoebury. . I was directed here from a similar discussion on the CTC Forums. I ride the seafront regularly and can only add my dismay at the appalling design of the new seafront cycle path. Motorists already regularly park in the eastern cycle path even though there are high kerbs separating it from the road. Here is an example recorded last Sunday morning:


      YouTube
            - OCEAN BEACH CAFE CYCLE LANE HAZARD.dv
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDNH7wTFbHg)

I have been emailing the councillor responsible for Roads and Traffic (and also planning btw), Cllr Anna Waite. I have yet to receive a reply.

My suggestion to all is to keep emailing Cllr Waite directly, clearly describing the potential for serious casualties this new lane represents, and pointing out to her that as Cllr for Roads and Traffic she will be held solely responsible for any accidents.
As she has received numerous warnings of the dangers inherent in this design, she cannot absolve herself from responsibility.


I rode along the new stretch today. It currently looks like this.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/DangerousBikePath2.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/DangerousBikePath.jpg)


It seems to me cycling east on this path is not going to be an option for anyone who does not want to take the risk of being doored, or running into people loading/unloading cars.

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 01, 2010, 05:59:33 pm
Do you have a link to the thread on CTC forums?

I have now put all my objections, raised in Monday's meeting, down on paper and emailed them to the project.

The final paragraph was
Quote
On a final note, you asked for help and ideas in promoting the Cycle Town Project.  As a suggestion why not hold a cycle ride to open this new cycle track?  Please can I suggest that the design team along with several councillors such as Cllr Lamb and Cllr Waite ride in a group from Chalkwell to the pier.  If you can let me know the dates and times that this will take place I will be there on a cycle at the same time.

If anybody hears that this inaugural ride is to take place, please let me know.  I'm suggesting a forum ride in the opposite direction  :demon:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 01, 2010, 06:04:02 pm
If anybody hears that this inaugural ride is to take place, please let me know.  I'm suggesting a forum ride in the opposite direction  :demon:
No!  :hand:
It should be the same direction but on the other side of the road. Do a U turn at  Woodgrange/Kursaal RAB and back along the road to pass They on the east bound cycle path.  ;D
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 01, 2010, 06:07:31 pm
The CTC thread is here: CTC Forum &bull; Information (http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35608)

\Maybe there should be a matching Southend Critical Mass event...
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 01, 2010, 06:14:53 pm
Also looking at the latest pictures shouldnt that be a solid white line, rather than a dashed one, to mark the edge of the road. Or is the solid line that is going to be painted 0.5m into the cyclepath going to be the edge of the road.
Btw I am up for the grand open day ride, its a great idea
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 01, 2010, 06:28:23 pm
I think they are short chevrons for a door zone!  :facepalm:


edit: back to the OP, does anybody know what the "event" is supposed to be? I can't seem to find anything on the SoS website.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on April 01, 2010, 07:13:30 pm
The plans show this line as Diag 1010. The TSRGD http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/20023113.htm (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/20023113.htm) state that this is an "edge of carrigeway" marking but also states it is for use across side roads, laybys driveways etc. As a dashed line a vehicle is permitted to cross it.

The first solid white line (that a driver is not permitted to cross) is shown on the plans at 0.5m inside the cycle path.

Even if the council tries to enforce the door zone by ticketing someone for parking beyond the dashed line then the "Michael Freemans" of this world will soon get the tickets quashed.


I think it has already been said before, but we should have a book open for the date of the first door V cyclist incident.


Ohh, and I am definately up for an opening day ride ;)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 01, 2010, 07:20:22 pm
As well as a book on the first dooring there should be a book for the first car passenger tripping on the kerb and falling into the lane and another book on a passenger/ped/cyclist slipping on the as yet to be painted line and falling into lane or onto a parked or parking car.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 01, 2010, 07:47:23 pm
I think they are short chevrons for a door zone!  :facepalm:
(http://forum.ctc.org.uk/download/file.php?id=5083&mode=view)

edit: back to the OP, does anybody know what the "event" is supposed to be? I can't seem to find anything on the SoS website.

I rode the motorbike home along here tonight.  It had been raining.  We were going into the setting sun.

All drivers were driving over the parking bays because we couldn't see the lines  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ::-)


Del, yes these are the door zone markings.  Please can anybody let me know of a vehicle which has 0.5m wide doors :facepalm:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 01, 2010, 07:49:55 pm
Well I saw a first tonight - it was what we have predicted.

Cyclist was using the new track to head west.

Car pulled onto track in front of them and parked outside Casino.

Cyclist hopped down into carriageway to pass the car.

Cyclist could not get back onto cycle track because of kerb.

Queue built up behind cyclist as each car slowed and then forced their way past whilst giving the cyclist no room at all.  (I was on a motorbike so could give cyclist plenty of room).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 01, 2010, 08:14:26 pm
How many Southend cyclists are there on this and other boards? Maybe we could just happen to all be cycling the seafront at the same time… (no organisers for the council to target).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: benborp on April 01, 2010, 08:26:54 pm
Unfortunately on a darker note, are there not recorded instances of incapacitated motorists being confused at night by oncoming lights to their left which results in them swerving left to correct their misperception?
This arrangement would seem to provide all the cues necessary: no street furniture providing a visual boundary on the left, a hatched divide that could be misconstrued as a central division, a wide footpath that could appear as a carriageway, a large central division that could be perceived as the road edge on the right and oncoming cyclists as fodder.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 02, 2010, 07:54:32 am
Del, yes these are the door zone markings.  Please can anybody let me know of a vehicle which has 0.5m wide doors :facepalm:
Noddy's car is quite small.  ::-)
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/oxford/stage/2003/06/images/noddy_magical_car_270.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 02, 2010, 10:02:48 am
How many Southend cyclists are there on this and other boards? Maybe we could just happen to all be cycling the seafront at the same time… (no organisers for the council to target).

There are a few locals on here.

I haven't had the time to trawl other boards to try to work out whether they have other local cyclists, or even if those local cyclists have an issue with this scheme.

Do you have any contacts? (pm me if you prefer).   Does anybody know what the feelings towards this new path is amongst other local cycle groups (Wheelers, fortyplus, etc)?  I've simply taken the collective view of everybody I've so far spoken to and expressed our joint concerns to the Council.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 02, 2010, 10:11:31 am
Unfortunately on a darker note, are there not recorded instances of incapacitated motorists being confused at night by oncoming lights to their left which results in them swerving left to correct their misperception?

Yes.  Cumbria I believe.  I was trying to find reference the other day but couldn't.  From memory it was a few years ago and the driver claimed to think he was on the wrong side of the road and swerved through the group of oncoming cyclists.  I recall there was one death, one amputated leg, and possibly a second injury of similar size.

This arrangement would seem to provide all the cues necessary: no street furniture providing a visual boundary on the left, a hatched divide that could be misconstrued as a central division, a wide footpath that could appear as a carriageway, a large central division that could be perceived as the road edge on the right and oncoming cyclists as fodder.

Indeed.  Motorcycling home last night was really strange.  Going through the parking bays, on the same line I've used for as long as I can remember, was fine as we couldn't really see the bays.  However once we got to the end of the bays we were suddenly on a hatched area with a solid line coming in from the right (it's where the new single lane moves left after the bays near the speed camera to allow for the central bays).  I could expect to see people swerving left at that point...

Also, as per lots of other areas, when lines are moved/repainted, the old lines still show up in some conditions...  e.g. just look at Belton Way!  Dusk/rain/etc and the black painted out lines are as white and shiny as the new lines.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 02, 2010, 10:41:43 am

Do you have any contacts? (pm me if you prefer).   Does anybody know what the feelings towards this new path is amongst other local cycle groups (Wheelers, fortyplus, etc)?  I've simply taken the collective view of everybody I've so far spoken to and expressed our joint concerns to the Council.

I don't have any contacts, I prefer riding solo. You may have seen me about, I'm the guy on the grey Moulton (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/DSCF0010.jpg) (I also sometimes ride a blue Eddy Merckx (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/DSCF0004-1.jpg)).

Regarding driver behaviour in Southend: Following being knocked down by Smidsy in Nov 2008 I have found a great tool in video recording my rides. If something happens I have it on record, if not I delete the files.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on April 02, 2010, 10:44:52 am
Please can anybody let me know of a vehicle which has 0.5m wide doors :facepalm:
Errm....there's one in my garage!   :-[
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 02, 2010, 10:48:12 am
Please can anybody let me know of a vehicle which has 0.5m wide doors :facepalm:
Errm....there's one in my garage!   :-[
I used Noddy's car as a joke I didn't know you had one.  ::-)
You are Big Ears AICMFP!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on April 02, 2010, 10:56:46 am
Please can anybody let me know of a vehicle which has 0.5m wide doors :facepalm:
Errm....there's one in my garage!   :-[
I used Noddy's car as a joke I didn't know you had one.  ::-)
You are Big Ears AICMFP!


It's nothing like Noddy's car! (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2106/2120999712_beeac149d3_o.jpg)   >:(

It's a different colour.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 02, 2010, 11:03:55 am
It's nothing like Noddy's car![/url]   >:(

It's a different colour.
Do the doors fall off when you stop? When you drive it do you have to wear a red nose, big shoes and a curly wig?  ;D


Sorry FB! :-*
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on April 02, 2010, 11:06:56 am
GIT!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on April 02, 2010, 11:57:18 am
This farcility certainly seems to be a shower of sh1t.  Not much different than Boris's rubbish cycling microhighway, either.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on April 02, 2010, 12:54:45 pm
If the sun comes out this weekend I shall be expecting our first accident.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 02, 2010, 03:51:38 pm
If the sun comes out this weekend I shall be expecting our first accident.

No chance, it will be full of motorbikes this w/end  :(

http://londonbikers.com/news/12787/ace-cafe-london-southend-shakedown
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 02, 2010, 07:04:37 pm
Weather is supposed to be miserable tomorrow… but this being Southend we may get lucky.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 03, 2010, 12:26:17 am
If the sun comes out this weekend I shall be expecting our first accident.

No chance, it will be full of motorbikes this w/end  :(

http://londonbikers.com/news/12787/ace-cafe-london-southend-shakedown

Ah, that must be "the event" the workman said it had to be ready for.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 03, 2010, 12:27:40 am
Please can anybody let me know of a vehicle which has 0.5m wide doors :facepalm:
Errm....there's one in my garage!   :-[

If the doors are that narrow do you have to take the roof off to climb in?

 :P :P :P :P :P :P



yeah yeah, I know, sorry and I'll buy you a beer next time we meet to make up for the jest.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 03, 2010, 12:29:20 am
...
I don't have any contacts, I prefer riding solo. You may have seen me about, I'm the guy on the grey Moulton (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/DSCF0010.jpg)...

I also prefer riding solo so understand that. 

Have I seen you some evenings near the Woodman's and heading for Hadleigh?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 03, 2010, 12:34:24 am
...
I don't have any contacts, I prefer riding solo. You may have seen me about, I'm the guy on the grey Moulton (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/DSCF0010.jpg)...

I also prefer riding solo so understand that.  

Have I seen you some evenings near the Woodman's and heading for Hadleigh?

Possibly, I have seen someone else on a red Moulton APB. My bike looks like this:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/TSRbrooksgear2.jpg)

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on April 03, 2010, 06:42:27 pm
Went for a pootle with the Mrs (Domestique) this morning. Nice gentle 36 miles around Great Wakering, Canewdon and Rochford.

On the way back we came along the Western Esplanade and guess what?????? Half of the cars parked in the parallel bays were all parked right up to the kerb to get as far away from the moving traffic as possible.

At the moment there is nothing to show that the new path is a cycle path, no markings on the path, no signs, so at the moment I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt and assume that the drivers thought that the new path was just an extension of the pavement. This did cause a little bit of a domestic with Domestique. We will have to wait and see what happens once the path is clearly marked and signed.

On a more positive note it's good to see that the council has finally removed almost all of the stupid speed humps along Shoebury East Beach, there are one or two left near the entrance but the rest have gone.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 03, 2010, 07:04:22 pm

On a more positive note it's good to see that the council has finally removed almost all of the stupid speed humps along Shoebury East Beach, there are one or two left near the entrance but the rest have gone.



They were even less fun on a Moulton.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 03, 2010, 07:44:31 pm
Went for a pootle with the Mrs (Domestique) this morning. Nice gentle 36 miles around Great Wakering, Canewdon and Rochford.
Blimey! Did you get lost? (several times) ;)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on April 03, 2010, 11:16:31 pm
Went for a pootle with the Mrs (Domestique) this morning. Nice gentle 36 miles around Great Wakering, Canewdon and Rochford.
Blimey! Did you get lost? (several times) ;)


LOL.... Not lost, but it was a bit of a round the houses out and back route.


(http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/9206/satpootle.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 04, 2010, 02:53:30 am
Coming home from Southend at 01:00 this morning I asked Mrs Nutty to drive me along here so I could see the latest.

She didn't have a problem using the correct lane past the newly painted parallel bays (there was a parked car in them).

Just before the central bays an oncoming taxi U-turned immediately in front of us, correctly where the turning area is, then waited to pull behind us... she winced and even though he was stopping swerved towards the new cycle lane!

There were two cars waiting on the, as yet unmarked, cycle lane outside the casino; completely blocking it.

Mrs Nutty completely agreed with me re the points I made re the narrow lane and potential oncoming cyclists.  She also agreed with me regarding the newly narrowed carriageway and how cyclists and cars can no longer mix.



We then got to The Arches, just before Shorefield Road, where they have constructed the new cycle path but NOT BURNT OFF the old central hatching.  Mrs Nutty's responce was "Sh:t!  Where do I go?" whilst swerving towards the path.  I just said "ignore the hatchings and drive over them" - which is the current correct thing to do  :facepalm:

Why on earth didn't they deal with the road markings before constructing the path?

Thanks to Monday's Ace Cafe Shakedown, and motorcyclists expected, all cones and roadworks have gone.


Mrs Nutty isn't really a cyclist, so it was interesting watching how she drove along that road without prior warning of the new layout.  I'm petrified that other drivers will be worse than her and that we'll have driver/cyclist conflict.


I might go for a ride down there Monday.  Anybody else going to?  I'll take a camera.  It's times like this I wish I'd bought a video camera for bike use.       What's the betting the unpainted lane will be obstructed by motorbikes?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 04, 2010, 08:25:01 am
Quote
I might go for a ride down there Monday.  Anybody else going to?  I'll take a camera.  It's times like this I wish I'd bought a video camera for bike use.       What's the betting the unpainted lane will be obstructed by motorbikes?

I might be later on today. I want to get a picture of the ped crossing near the Arch's  :(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Hummers on April 04, 2010, 09:38:46 am
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/Southend%20Cycle%20Town/141_1650.jpg)

We have this style of cycle path as an ongoing project on Portsmouth sea front (stage 1 at least) and it has had mixed reviews - from cyclists, motorists and pedestrains.

Driving down there the other day to walk the dog on the beach, it became glaringly apparent how much road users - bikes and cars - have been compromised.

The future of Stage 2 - the extension and conclusion of the route - hangs in the balance as it reduces the parking capacity and road width considerably. I don't ride down there that much but if I did (and didn't want to use the cycle lane), I would be concerned about how close cars would have to pass to overtake.

As for the lane itself, it holds all the same risks as identified in Southend with too narrow a kerb (which is not continuous but lozenge shaped) as to prevent the very cyclists it is trying to attract from being doored by motorists now forced to park in parallel (rather than in a chevron looking out to sea) to the promenade.

H
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 04, 2010, 10:11:50 am
 I'll take a camera.  It's times like this I wish I'd bought a video camera for bike use.


I have three video cameras I use:
An Oregon Scientific ATC3K (around £70.00) which is completely weatherproof,

A Veho Muvi 'peanut' cam (around £65.00 beware of cheap chinese imitations),

and a pair of cheap Chinese made video sunglasses bought from Ebay for around £20.00 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-SPY-SUNGLASSES-DIGITAL-CAMERA-CAMCORDER-DVR-GLASSES_W0QQitemZ220582579615QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_AudioTVElectronics_Video_Camcorders?hash=item335bbf0d9f#ht_3245wt_1167).
 
The first two easily mount to the bike, the peanut cam can also mount to a helmet (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/DSCF0040.jpg), weighs almost nothing, gives good quality results (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPJLgWGlF8s) but only has a battery life around a couple of hours.
Recently I mostly use the sunglasses cam because it has a battery life up to five hours and can take up to a 16Gb memory card which is plenty for local rides out. (It also doesn't look out of place when combined with a cycle helmet. Quality is easily good enough for Youtube recording registrations etc. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDNH7wTFbHg)), but the downside is it has a datestamp which I can't figure out how to correct.

Perhaps, if more cyclists wore cameras, we could 'train' motorists to be more careful around us. ;)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 04, 2010, 02:23:36 pm
Quote
I might go for a ride down there Monday.  Anybody else going to?  I'll take a camera.  It's times like this I wish I'd bought a video camera for bike use.       What's the betting the unpainted lane will be obstructed by motorbikes?

I might be later on today. I want to get a picture of the ped crossing near the Arch's  :(

Some comments I have received from another (non local) engineer who saw the plans regarding the crossings were interesting.

He commented on the speed humps on the cycle path, but not the road, by the crossings - who is the danger?  It seems that the council expect cyclists to be the danger and not motorised traffic!

At the crossings they make the cycle path stop, which means that pedestrians waiting to cross the road will be blocking the cycle path.  If they'd extended the crossing across the cycle path then cyclists will still need to stop for the crossing... but waiting pedestrians will be on the footway and so there is less conflict.

Tactile paving on the cycle path (shown on the plans) - there's no need for it because the lane itself is at a lower level than the pavement.  You don't use tactile paving on the road.  Blind people know that "up is safe" so would be on the pavement and not the cycle lane.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 04, 2010, 04:06:31 pm
Nutty I agree about the crossing, it’s like saying bikes are the danger.
I went along the seafront this morning, whilst I stopped to observe how the traffic was behaving just after the parking bays next to the road, I managed to speak to a family who had two small children on bikes. I did point out the danger, i.e. off the road and straight into traffic. They didn’t realise the lane was two way, well there are no signs yet, also what could happen where they to ride off the cycle way and onto the road. I think they where genuinely shocked when they realised the danger.
The sad thing for me, in general I like the choice of cycle path or road, if I want to continue to cycle along that section of the seafront I feel I will have to use the path. There is simply not enough room on the road.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on April 04, 2010, 06:06:01 pm
With regard to the pedestrian crossings I think that the council has painted themselves into a corner with these and left themselves with no option but to use the design they have.

If the path had been made one way then the zebra crossing could easily be extended across the cycle path. Cyclists would simply give way to pedestrians using the crossing the same as anyone on the main road.

By making the path two ways the council designers have created a problem. If the zebra crossing is extended across the cycle path then peds will have to look for bikes coming from both directions and then look for cars beyond the cycle path which is a recipie for someone getting knocked down.

The only alternative would have been to add an island between the cycle path and road so that they could be treated as seperate crossings, one over the cycle path, then a refuge island for peds to stop and look for cars then the second crossing over the road. In the cirumstances what we have ended up with is probably the best of a bad job.

Actually there is a second alternative and thats to back down and make the path one way only, as it should have been in the first place.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: teethgrinder on April 04, 2010, 06:19:40 pm
Actually there is a second alternative and thats to back down and make the path one way only, as it should have been in the first place.

I've got a better idea. Ban motor vehicles, except for permit holders for deliveries etc and have it as a free for all for cyclists and pedestrians and making the road a cycle path so that hurrypants cyclists can ride at usual speed without bothering pedestrians and plodding peddalars on the promenade.

Sorted. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 04, 2010, 07:14:31 pm
Took a ride eastwards along the new path at about 4.20pm today. I won't be using it again. Bear in mind when watching the video that this isn't even a particularly busy day on the seafront. Come summertime this path will be sheer murder.


      YouTube
            - Southend's Badly Designed New Cycle Lane
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlrVSRBaDQc)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 04, 2010, 07:27:42 pm
Took a ride eastwards along the new path at about 4.20pm today. I won't be using it again. Bear in mind when watching the video that this isn't even a particularly busy day on the seafront. Come summertime this path will be sheer murder.
Thanks for riding the path and making a video of it. I shall have a look at it when it's finished but I doubt I'll ever ride it.  :hand:  ::-)  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 04, 2010, 07:57:23 pm
Quote
Took a ride eastwards along the new path at about 4.20pm today.

I thought that boy in the brown coat was going to do it, 12s into the video  :(
Riding eastwards I will use the road, but westwards  :-\
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 04, 2010, 08:00:46 pm
Quote
Took a ride eastwards along the new path at about 4.20pm today.

I thought that boy in the brown coat was going to do it  :(
Riding eastwards I will use the road, but westwards  :-\

Cycling westwards I used the road. Cars had no problem passing me.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 04, 2010, 11:29:19 pm
...
Actually there is a second alternative and thats to back down and make the path one way only, as it should have been in the first place.

The problem with that is that they've now narrowed the carriageway in BOTH directions down to 3.25m which makes it highly dangerous.  It's too narrow for vehicles to safely pass cyclists, but it's also just wide enough that drivers will be tempted to push their way past.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 04, 2010, 11:31:27 pm
Took a ride eastwards along the new path at about 4.20pm today. I won't be using it again. Bear in mind when watching the video that this isn't even a particularly busy day on the seafront. Come summertime this path will be sheer murder.


      YouTube
            - Southend's Badly Designed New Cycle Lane
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlrVSRBaDQc)

Thanks for that video.  Do you mind if I refer to it in future letters to the Council/Councillors?


The final point though, re using the road in the future, I don't think I will.  I've cycled westerly that way a few times since the path was constructed... and I hate having wing mirrors pass under my elbow  >:(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 04, 2010, 11:44:23 pm
<edited> Video wasn't working.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 05, 2010, 12:16:17 am
They were giving you a bit more room than me... but at least your drivers were leaving the lane and straddling the hatching!

Once the signs and cycle lane paint are down I am anticipating abuse along there if I'm not on the lane - it already occurs on Eastern Esplanade.


Thursday morning rush hour I saw a cyclist heading east along the seafront, he was riding along the centre parking bays instead of using the lane.  I was on the motorbike and could see how there wasn't room at all for the traffic to pass on the carriageway without entering the hatched area - which I wondered was the reason the cyclist wasn't on the carriageway.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 05, 2010, 12:27:45 am
Took a ride eastwards along the new path at about 4.20pm today. I won't be using it again. Bear in mind when watching the video that this isn't even a particularly busy day on the seafront. Come summertime this path will be sheer murder.


      YouTube
            - Southend's Badly Designed New Cycle Lane
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlrVSRBaDQc)

Meant to mention earlier, just look at how many cars failed to park in the marked bays and instead parked in the buffer zone.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: simonp on April 05, 2010, 01:12:40 am
What a disaster.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Hummers on April 05, 2010, 08:20:51 am
I didn't find it that bad:


      YouTube
            - New Road Width

This video doesn't work but the others do.

I rode along the Portsmouth cycle path and compared to Southend, ours is pretty good.

H
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 05, 2010, 08:29:14 am
I didn't find it that bad:


      YouTube
            - New Road Width
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeamH6cWmOg)

This video doesn't work but the others do.

I rode along the Portsmouth cycle path and compared to Southend, ours is pretty good.

H


Hmm… I've had to delete that. I'll load up a better version in a little while.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Manotea on April 05, 2010, 08:43:30 am
For me, the big fail was shown in the last few seconds of the video when the cyclepath ends and cyclists have to rejoin the road, crossing the carriageway. That in itself rendered the whole exercise pointless.

I was in Leatherhead yesterday but didn't see the new cyclepath there. Very disappointed. I suspect they will become tourist attractions in their own right!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 05, 2010, 01:20:21 pm

Thanks for that video.  Do you mind if I refer to it in future letters to the Council/Councillors?


The final point though, re using the road in the future, I don't think I will.  I've cycled westerly that way a few times since the path was constructed... and I hate having wing mirrors pass under my elbow  >:(

I would prefer it if you used this link:
      YouTube
            - Southend's Dangerous New Cycle Lane
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyehqjJDkY4)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 05, 2010, 08:43:46 pm
The ride was a little more crowded today…


      YouTube
            - Ace Cafe Southend Shakedown
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juF2xs6IuZk)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: matthew on April 05, 2010, 09:47:28 pm
The ride was a little more crowded today…


      YouTube
            - Ace Cafe Southend Shakedown
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juF2xs6IuZk)

And there Mr Nutty is the reason the cycle lane was specified in the way it was...






Ideal motorcycle parking for this type of event!!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 05, 2010, 10:10:39 pm
...
And there Mr Nutty is the reason the cycle lane was specified in the way it was...






Ideal motorcycle parking for this type of event!!

Indeed, I suspected as much which is why I spent the day fettling the bike and garden instead of cycling down to Southend to get cross.

One thought though, in the past for events such as this the Council turned the eastbound lane into a two way lane with cones, freeing up the usual westbound lane to use for the event.  Did they do that today?  Is there even enough space left to do so?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 05, 2010, 10:14:05 pm
No. Today the westbound lane was closed. Westbound traffic was diverted up into town at the Kursaal.


I wasn't surprised to see this. At most big seafront events lanes are closed for parking/stalls etc.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 05, 2010, 10:24:48 pm
...
 At most big seafront events lanes are closed for parking/stalls etc.

Indeed they are, and I don't have a problem with that because a seafront should be considered a public open space.

Just going from memory though haven't we only had two types of event to date though?
Major event such as Airshow - whole seafront closed.
Minor event such as today - traffic moved to northern carriageway to allow pavement/southern carriageway/central parking area to be used for the event.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 05, 2010, 10:41:27 pm
Last year we also had the final of the Tour Series where the entire seafront was closed:


      YouTube
            - Tour Series Final 25-06-09
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=misOf3rEtXE)

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 06, 2010, 12:55:37 am
Yup.  I stopped off to see that on the way home from work.

I don't recall any other time that the seafront has been turned into a one way route though?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Gandalf on April 06, 2010, 07:11:56 am

Thanks for that video.  Do you mind if I refer to it in future letters to the Council/Councillors?


The final point though, re using the road in the future, I don't think I will.  I've cycled westerly that way a few times since the path was constructed... and I hate having wing mirrors pass under my elbow  >:(

I would prefer it if you used this link:
      YouTube
            - Southend's Dangerous New Cycle Lane
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyehqjJDkY4)

Someone's definitely going to get doored or buggied.

Totally OT, but what was the music you used?  I've heard it somewhere and it's really bugging me.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 06, 2010, 08:35:15 am

Someone's definitely going to get doored or buggied.

Totally OT, but what was the music you used?  I've heard it somewhere and it's really bugging me.

Its from an old 60s TV series, Robinson Crusoe:


      YouTube
            - The Robinson Crusoe Suite
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSxiqOPnW84)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Hummers on April 06, 2010, 09:07:01 am

Thanks for that video.  Do you mind if I refer to it in future letters to the Council/Councillors?


The final point though, re using the road in the future, I don't think I will.  I've cycled westerly that way a few times since the path was constructed... and I hate having wing mirrors pass under my elbow  >:(

I would prefer it if you used this link:
      YouTube
            - Southend's Dangerous New Cycle Lane
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyehqjJDkY4)

Watching this again and comparing it to the one at Southsea, Southend's really is a terrible piece of half-witted design and a half-hearted attempt at a cycle path.

There seemed to be nothing to denote that this is a cycle lane (not even different coloured tarmac) so pedestrians straying onto the path have no idea (other than the presence of bikes - which they seem to treat as an annoyance) that this isn't an extension of the pavement. Ours has an attempt at establishing a two-way cycle lane whilst yours is a free for all.

Also, the chevroned 'kerb' is far too narrow and doesn't stop cars parking right up to the path. At least we have lengths of kerb although in the spaces between, some cars seem drawn to park as close to the patch as they can.

Having ridden along it, I was actually impressed with the Southsea cycle path and despite its flaws, would probably take Mrs H along it if I could tempt her back out on the bike.

If it were like Southend, I would avoid it at all costs. What a shameful waste of money, time and a missed opportunity.

H
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 06, 2010, 11:37:49 am
Quote
There seemed to be nothing to denote that this is a cycle lane (not even different coloured tarmac) so pedestrians straying onto the path have no idea (other than the presence of bikes - which they seem to treat as an annoyance) that this isn't an extension of the pavement. Ours has an attempt at establishing a two-way cycle lane whilst yours is a free for all.

Afaik there is a solid white line to painted along the length of the lane 0.5m from the drop kerb and the rest of the usual cyclist symbols local councils paint on the road/paths. Sign posts are not in place yet either.
To be fair, if the path was one way, ie westward only, It would be reasonable apart from the car parking spaces adjacent to the lane from Peter Pans. Thats just my opinion, others may differ.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 06, 2010, 12:01:01 pm
...
To be fair, if the path was one way, ie westward only, It would be reasonable apart from the car parking spaces adjacent to the lane from Peter Pans. Thats just my opinion, others may differ.

I agree...  bar one point.

In order to create the path the road has been narrowed to 3.25m which is in the zone that LTN2/08 and Cycling England say is dangerous.  Although Clandy has it captured on film as ok (in slower moving traffic) I have already had issues in the evening rush hour with traffic pushing past dangerously.

If using the road, once the final paint and signs go in, I expect to get abuse from drivers (although if it were a one way path then there's more reason for me to use it and I probably wouldn't be in the road).

In order to create the path and also retain the central parking bays, everything has been moved north.  This means that the eastbound lane is also narrowed to 3.25m.  Dangerous.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 07, 2010, 03:55:22 pm
Drivers are also saying parts of this are dangerous. Their focus is on the new parking arrangement:

Council’s slant on Southend seafront parking is confusing drivers (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/7986813.Council___s_slant_on_Southend_seafront_parking_is_confusing_drivers/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 07, 2010, 09:23:22 pm
...
If using the road, once the final paint and signs go in, I expect to get abuse from drivers (although if it were a one way path then there's more reason for me to use it and I probably wouldn't be in the road).
...

I received my first abuse tonight.

Of the predictions of issues we made to the Council at the cycle group meeting, the only one that I'm not aware of happening is the casualty.

 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on April 08, 2010, 08:18:53 am
For those who have not seen them; the council has created a set of top trump style cards as part of their marketing campaign for cycling in Southend.

The cards have headlines like
"Locking your bike up safely" with a picture of a bent wheel locked to a railing,
"Looking where your going" with a picture of someone covered in a mound of grass.

Well, here is the card that they left out of the pack....

(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7506/trumps.jpg)

BTW has anyone who attended the last cycle group meeting received the minutes etc yet?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 08, 2010, 08:23:37 am
The council seem rather slow in responding to concerns. I have emailed Cllr Waite twice in the last couple of weeks highlighting the concerns over the design of this cycle path. In the second email I also included a link to my video.


So far I have heard nothing in reply.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 08, 2010, 08:26:06 am
So far I have heard nothing in reply.
Could try a tweet. http://twitter.com/cyclesouthend
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 08, 2010, 08:29:10 am
I don't do Twitter. Is there a facebook group?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 08, 2010, 08:35:46 am

BTW has anyone who attended the last cycle group meeting received the minutes etc yet?


Nope.  But the cycle group chair is from the Bikeability team and doesn't work during school holidays.



The council seem rather slow in responding to concerns. I have emailed Cllr Waite twice in the last couple of weeks highlighting the concerns over the design of this cycle path. In the second email I also included a link to my video.


So far I have heard nothing in reply.
I've had an out of office reply from her.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 08, 2010, 08:40:57 am
So far I have heard nothing in reply.
Could try a tweet. http://twitter.com/cyclesouthend

Twitter.  What an appropriate name for a website -> http://twitter.com/SouthendTory

Following the links from recent twits on there I was so tempted to leave comments.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 08, 2010, 08:43:25 am
Interesting she has had time to Twitter on Tuesday, but can't answer her emails.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 08, 2010, 08:48:23 am
Interesting she has had time to Twitter on Tuesday, but can't answer her emails.
Cyclesouthend doesn't seem to have a facebook page. But if you follow nutty's link above you get to A Waste of spaceite's blog.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 08, 2010, 09:03:10 am
Drivers are also saying parts of this are dangerous. Their focus is on the new parking arrangement:

Council’s slant on Southend seafront parking is confusing drivers (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/7986813.Council___s_slant_on_Southend_seafront_parking_is_confusing_drivers/)
Brilliant comments that turn from parking to pro cycling and the use and safety of the shonky bike path.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 08, 2010, 11:04:40 am
Interesting she has had time to Twitter on Tuesday, but can't answer her emails.

Changing topic slightly
Quote
#    work commenced on priory crescent this morning, all going well at present     2:56 AM Mar 20th  via web   

The trees came down during the day on the 20th if I recall, yet at 03:00 that day, whilst most residents were in slumberland, she was happy that the work had started and was going well.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 08, 2010, 12:28:06 pm
@ two_flat_erics

That is mint   ;D ;D :-*
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: SlowCoach on April 08, 2010, 01:17:23 pm
So far I have heard nothing in reply.

Won't she be too busy canvassing to worry abot trivia like this?. I've had a letter from my MP (I wrote on another cycling matter some weeks ago). The gist of the reponse was "I'm far to busy with campaigning right now to deal with any correspondence. I might get around to reading your letter some time after the election though". If she deals with the rest of her letters in the same wy she may be job hunting on May 7th.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 08, 2010, 01:39:24 pm
The Evening Echo have been in touch.  Possible photo shoot this evening.  I'll post here what time I'll be stopping outside the Casino tonight.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 08, 2010, 01:46:22 pm
The Evening Echo have been in touch.  Possible photo shoot this evening.  I'll post here what time I'll be stopping outside the Casino tonight.
Not really surprising as the article about parking problems has transformed into dangerous cycle path and is/was the ninth most read story and second for most commented on.

Good luck with the photo shoot. Try and channel John Franklin.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 08, 2010, 01:58:57 pm
The Evening Echo have been in touch.  Possible photo shoot this evening.  I'll post here what time I'll be stopping outside the Casino tonight.

17:45 outside the Casino.  If you're passing say hello (I think I have my ACF top on today).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Riggers on April 08, 2010, 02:01:19 pm
Just a quick glance down and you should be able to tell Nutters.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 08, 2010, 02:07:23 pm
17:45 outside the Casino.  If you're passing say hello (I think I have my ACF top on today).
I shall try to get there, although I'm neither photogenic or quotable. ;)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 08, 2010, 02:16:04 pm
The Evening Echo have been in touch.  Possible photo shoot this evening.  I'll post here what time I'll be stopping outside the Casino tonight.

17:45 outside the Casino.  If you're passing say hello (I think I have my ACF top on today).

I would have thought the stretch outside the Three Shells, where the parking bays are next to the cycle path, would have been better as that is where the most danger is.

Good luck with the interview. Try to be concise in what you say. This is the Echo after all.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 08, 2010, 02:26:53 pm
...
I would have thought the stretch outside the Three Shells, where the parking bays are next to the cycle path, would have been better as that is where the most danger is.
...

It won't take a second to meander along there from the Casino.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 08, 2010, 02:36:04 pm
In todays Eve. Echo there is a picture of the newly planted palm trees, a dozen with, I think, 30 more to come, next to the newly laid cycle lane. The new double yellow lines and the 50mm kerb are the only things separating the cycle lane from the "road".  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on April 08, 2010, 07:25:50 pm
We came back along the seafront at about 4:30pm today. Nice sunny day, school holidays, needless to say it was busy and all the dangers discussed here were evident.

Cars parked right up to the path. Doors open across the path. Van parked on the path at the Casino. Peds meandering along the path without a care in the world. Traffic was pretty much at a crawl all the way from the Kursal and was still crawling at Shorefield road where we turned off.

Well done to the council for turning a reasonable seafront, that more or less worked for most people, into something that works for no-one and a danger to everyone.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 08, 2010, 07:39:31 pm
Oh well.  Photos taken.  Let's see what's published tomorrow.

Ironically it was a bit quiet down there.  Needed a bit of patience waiting to capture any of the incidents mentioned thus far on film  ::-)

Then the photographer left and the cars started parking on the lane again  ::-) ::-) ::-)


Clandy, good to meet you, it'll be interesting to see what your camera footage captured.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 08, 2010, 09:23:19 pm
Good meeting you too Nutty. It will be interesting to see what the Echo do with the story.

Here's the interesting bit, took an ice age to upload:


      YouTube
            - FL53 BWF illegally parked in cycle lane.
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfo37kzjHZs)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 08, 2010, 09:37:22 pm
Thanks for that video (I'll wait for Wendy et al to comment on my riding style - especially if you caught the return journey  ;D).

 00:23 - I missed it because I'd already passed the next obstruction parked in the cycle lane,  but it's good to see how you captured the oncoming cyclist having to use the pavement.

 00:30 - so it took 30 seconds before he found sufficient space in the parked cars to be able to pull out past me.


I'm glad of that viewpoint as it does show me that the carriageway is too narrow.  Watching you in my mirrors, and a few rearward observations, showed that you had quite a queue behind you too.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 08, 2010, 09:43:34 pm
The return journey isn't all that exciting, except for the central filter along the roadworks…  ;D
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Hummers on April 09, 2010, 08:34:29 am
You wonder if they were thinking about undertaking Nutty by means of the cycle lane.   :facepalm:

The thing that occurs to me is having a one way system invariably means cars travelling at faster speeds as they are unlikely to meet someone coming in the opposite direction. Oh hold on, what if someone pulls out from the parking bay? No problems, you can always swerve to the left and drive up that nice and convenient cycle lane.  ::-)

H

P.S. From the clip, I can't see how the car has cut up Nutty.  ???

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 09, 2010, 08:40:15 am
He didn't, he cut up me.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 09, 2010, 09:25:20 am
Is it illegal to park there when the lane is not finished yet? There is yet to be any signage or proper lane lines and cycle signs there so how would the driver know? Isn't that what Mr. Loophole would say?

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: alexb on April 09, 2010, 09:53:32 am
I honestly can't understand why they didn't just make the new "cycle lane" into additional parking spaces and makes the central parking bays into parallel parking bays thus leaving two traffic lanes (which is loads of space for cyclists) and giving the additional parking they seem to need.

Isn't this what it used to be like?
I haven't lived in Southend (Hockley really) for almost 20 years, but I can't remember the seafront being especially problematic for cyclists or drivers except for high season in summer.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 09, 2010, 10:04:42 am
Is it illegal to park there when the lane is not finished yet? There is yet to be any signage or proper lane lines and cycle signs there so how would the driver know? Isn't that what Mr. Loophole would say?



Indeed.  And it's because of the lack of signage so far that I'm not getting overly angry at the drivers and pedestrians who are using the cycle track (even though it's bloomin obvious what it is and all the public are calling it a track).

Once the paint and signs go down, that's when I will be getting cross.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 09, 2010, 10:08:49 am
You wonder if they were thinking about undertaking Nutty by means of the cycle lane.   :facepalm:


I think he thought he was on a dedicated lane, such as a motorway hard shoulder, and was just building up speed before joining the carriageway.

He didn't look to his right at all, just pulled away.  That's why I just calmly said "mirror" through the open window and as you'll see moved forwards and left to ensure I was out of the blind spot and into his line of sight.

It's difficult to see unless you knew it happened, but at 00:08 the footage just captures him swerving back left by a couple of inches when he jumped in surprise at my comment and "sudden" appearance.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Hummers on April 09, 2010, 10:10:34 am
He didn't, he cut up me.

Ah, I see now. To be fair, he probably had to do this to avoid the oncoming cyclist (on the path) and the digger illegally parked in the cycle lane.

 ;)

H
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 09, 2010, 10:18:14 am
Isn't this what it used to be like?
I haven't lived in Southend (Hockley really) for almost 20 years, but I can't remember the seafront being especially problematic for cyclists or drivers except for high season in summer.


I've commuted along there daily for the last ten years.

In my opinion what was the real situation for cyclists?
Experienced cyclists used the carriageway with ample space.  You can see the old carriageway width captured on streetview last summer in traffic linky (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Southend-on-Sea,+Essex,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.533229,0.706601&spn=0,0.038581&z=15&layer=c&cbll=51.533227,0.705925&panoid=zSpe5gTq4xzhHXMQMjV3Kg&cbp=12,93.91,,0,12.06) - plenty more room than captured in last night's video (and note cyclist stopped to admire the view).

Inexperienced cyclists still used the road, seemingly without issue.  A painted cycle lane might have assisted this "market group".

Families, children, and lots of others meandered along very slowly on the pavement  :facepalm: between the pedestrians.  I am not aware of any injury collisions that took place, although the letters pages of local papers do tend to have anti-pavement cycling whinges regularly.
edit captured on streetview (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Southend-on-Sea,+Essex,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.533683,0.700936&spn=0,0.038581&z=15&layer=c&cbll=51.53369,0.700747&panoid=9Huq5MxhVBol5Oi5fRlRZQ&cbp=12,271.16,,2,5.41)



If any of the other locals want to add to this then please feel free, but I would agree with alexb - I don't think that the seafront has been "especially problematic for cyclists " at any time.

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 09, 2010, 10:23:54 am
He didn't, he cut up me.

Ah, I see now. To be fair, he probably had to do this to avoid the oncoming cyclist (on the path) and the digger illegally parked in the cycle lane.

 ;)

H

Or he could have used his mirrors and waited for me to pass.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 09, 2010, 10:30:14 am
Ok, my last email I copied to my local Councillor, Mike Assenheim, who is also apparently Health and Safety Champion for the Borough. here is his reply:

"Thank you for copying me into your email to Mrs Waite. I am also deeply concerned in respect of the cycle path along the Esplanade. As far as I am personally aware there was no formal consultation with the public or User Groups before this project was proceeded with. As Health & Safety Champion for the Borough I had no input to this scheme. I was able to watch some of the footage from the youtube link attachment and it is indeed very worrying.
 
I will be asking the appropriate Officers for sight of the safety audit that was done in respect of this project, and will take it forward after the coming Election.
"

He has now emailed Andrew Lewis and Andrew Meddle (not sure who they are) and CCed to Cllr Terry and Rob Tinlin, with the following:

The emails below are self explanatory, Could I please have sight of the Safety Audit that was completed in respect of the matters in the emails below and would ask who signed the project off?
 
Could I please have a reply from somebody at the earliest on this matter?


Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 09, 2010, 10:45:13 am
If you do get the safety audit can you send it on?   I requested sight of it last week.

... As far as I am personally aware there was no formal consultation with the public or User Groups before this project was proceeded with....

He's correct, as wowbagger, fatbloke and myself will confirm since we sit on the cycle group that the council set up specifically to consult on these projects.  They brought the plans to us on teh 29th March.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: little miss mac on April 09, 2010, 10:56:10 am
I am in awe at the awfulness of your council, on so many fronts. Sweet jeebus.

At least Mike Assenheim seems to have his head screwed on. I simply cannot believe no-one was consulted, not even internally.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Hummers on April 09, 2010, 11:33:45 am

Or he could have used his mirrors and waited for me to pass.

Or not been bloody parked there in the first place.

H
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 09, 2010, 11:44:04 am
But he "had to" park there.

In the first seconds of the video you'll see a snack bar on the seawall to the left.  All of these along the seafront have people pulling up for a minute while they shop there.  Drivers can no longer do this without obstructing the carriageway.

It's essential that we retain trade along here (after all, when the seafront was closed for a cycle event the traders complained and got it reopened mid event, then voiced fears over the upcoming closure for teh Tour Series echo link (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/4446768.Traders_angry_about_cycle_race/)) .

Therefore, in order to retain this passing trade it is essential for drivers to park on the cycle path.



This post was brought to you with traces of sarcasm...
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 09, 2010, 12:34:31 pm
Read all abaaaart it!     Nutty is the Echo's page 3 model.  Lots of skin exposed  ;D ;D ;D


7/10.   They got a good summary of points across, misquoted me a little on "the solution" but not enough for me to worry about complaining (they've merged a few comments I made with regards various options into one 'solution')


Anna Waite is quoted as asking people to be patient while the works are completed and saying "I am confident it's safe and will be even safer when it's complete in about six weeks".

I look forwards to cycling along that path with her on a weekend in the height of the summer season.  (Yes Anna, that is an open invitation.)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Riggers on April 09, 2010, 12:52:24 pm
Er, I think you mean pushing your bike in the height of summer amongst all the 'kiss me quicks' and the "Ere, Wayne gerrawayfromtha'bleedinbikepath it's dainjerus!" types.

Or am I wrong?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 09, 2010, 12:55:05 pm
You're completely wrong Riggers.

The quote says that the lane is safe so we'll ride from Chalkwell to Shoebury along it in the sunshine without any conflict at all.   :relevant-smiley:

<Considers getting a pipe just to improve the quality of the ride>
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Riggers on April 09, 2010, 12:57:47 pm
You need to come to Brighton. Actually, you have on may an occasion haven't you?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 09, 2010, 01:09:33 pm
OMG look at the size of my arse!  :o  ;D

I think the report is better than I was expecting, they got the main points across. Not surprise at Cllr Waite's comment. I would also like to see her cycle along this in the summer season.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on April 09, 2010, 04:45:29 pm
Just read the article in the Echo.

Stop panicking everyone..

Anna Waite confirms in the last paragraph that there will be a raised white line to mark the edge of the carrigeway which will make it safe. (we knew that already Anna it's on the plans).That white line which is 0.5m inside the cycle lane will make it perfectly safe for everyone. Cyclists will not be able to wobble into the road as we all feared. Cars wont be able to drive up onto the cycle lane, and car doors will not be able to intrude into the lane at all. A 1m lane in each direction is loads of room, what were we all worrying about.

Thank goodness the design wizards in the council thought ahead and planned to add a white line to make it all safe. Lets just hope it never rains in Southend again because once those white lines get wet they become skating rinks.

I nead a cup of tea.... or better still a large whisky.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 09, 2010, 05:29:10 pm
There is a shorter thread on CycleChat about this new lane and one post says that the bins, and presumably everything else, like trees and benches, should be at least one metre from the path.
The new palms might be but the blue bins look too close.

Palms arrive on Southend seafront (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/7991956.Palms_arrive_on_Southend_seafront/?ref=mr)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 09, 2010, 05:33:22 pm
There is a shorter thread on CycleChat about this new lane and one post says that the bins, and presumably everything else, like trees and benches, should be at least one metre from the path.
The new palms might be but the blue bins look too close.

Palms arrive on Southend seafront (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/7991956.Palms_arrive_on_Southend_seafront/?ref=mr)

Hhhmmmm yes...

I'm not certain about being a metre away from the track... but LTN2/08, section 8.5.3 (as quoted in my original post) says
Quote
8.5.3 In all cases where a cycle track or footway is bounded by a vertical feature such as a wall, railings or kerb, an additional allowance should be made, as the very edge of the path cannot be used
...Low upstand up to 150 mm  -  Add 200 mm
Vertical feature from 150 mm to 1.2 metres*  -  Add 250 mm...

So those close bins and seats should really be requiring adding 0.25m to the width of the path...  I missed that as I don't think the bins were shown on the plans.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 09, 2010, 05:53:30 pm
Story is now on the Echo website: Southend seafront cycle lane ‘not safe’ (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8091356.Southend_seafront_cycle_lane____not_safe___/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 09, 2010, 06:57:20 pm
It's spreading. Story is now on Southend Radio's Facebook page. with the usual comments about road tax from motorists: Nicht unterstüzter Browser | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Southend-On-Sea-United-Kingdom/Southend-Radio-1051/269121140318)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 09, 2010, 07:11:31 pm
I don't do facebook (and it took me ages to get my browser to show the comments).

If anybody does have the ability to update the comments, then @ the people talking about costing the tax payer money, the money for that lane hasn't come from Southend council taxpayers but as specific funding toward the scheme from central government (which means all taxpayers) - or so we were told at the council meeting.

edit - is there a way to get a permanent link to that section of comments?  I don't want to write in an email "it's on facebook somewhere"
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 09, 2010, 11:45:13 pm
Interesting she has had time to Twitter on Tuesday, but can't answer her emails.
Cyclesouthend doesn't seem to have a facebook page. But if you follow nutty's link above you get to A Waste of spaceite's blog.

I believe that her blog is seasidenews ?

Oh dear, the RSS feed of local news has just put this onto her site
Quote
# Southend seafront cycle lane ‘not safe’ April 9, 2010
A NEW seafront cycle lane is an “accident waiting to happen” according to worried cyclists.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 10, 2010, 01:56:27 am
Is anybody a member of this website?
Cycle paths and palm trees create Southend 'Riviera' | road.cc | The website for pedal powered people: Road cycling, commuting, leisure cycling and racing (http://road.cc/content/news/13548-cycle-paths-and-palm-trees-create-southend-riviera)

I see they published the Council's January press release, and there is opportunity to add comment to it.   I'm not a roadie so am out of my depth there, but do we have any roadie cyclists here that also are registered there?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on April 10, 2010, 07:50:35 am
... do we have any roadie cyclists here that also are registered there?
I think I am (was).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 10, 2010, 08:20:41 am
Is anybody a member of this website?
Cycle paths and palm trees create Southend 'Riviera' | road.cc | The website for pedal powered people: Road cycling, commuting, leisure cycling and racing (http://road.cc/content/news/13548-cycle-paths-and-palm-trees-create-southend-riviera)

I see they published the Council's January press release, and there is opportunity to add comment to it.   I'm not a roadie so am out of my depth there, but do we have any roadie cyclists here that also are registered there?

Interesting last comment in the story:

"Simon Patterson, chairman of the Southend Sea Front Traders’ Association, said he welcomed the spruce-up: “Anything to smarten up the seafront is great.

“The cycle track is in line with what they’re trying to do to create a greener environment to encourage people to cycle, so that’s a good thing.

I can see the new parking bays working a lot better than they do now.

“The traffic will be eased, because people won’t have to reverse park any more, and it will make parking quicker.”"



Erm… no.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 10, 2010, 10:05:40 am
So were the traders misled about the plans then?

And how come they got to see them when the Cycle Group that the Council set up specifically for this were denied access to the plans.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on April 10, 2010, 10:35:56 am
So were the traders misled about the plans then?

And how come they got to see them when the Cycle Group that the Council set up specifically for this were denied access to the plans.
Probably for the same reason that the cycling DAY was cancelled after an hour last year after lobbying from the traders. MONEY!!    >:(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 10, 2010, 03:17:46 pm
Was out for a ride this morning and noticed the series of very short cycle lanes in Tattersall Gardens, Hadleigh. SBC seem to like doing pointless things for cyclists:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/Hadleighshortcyclelane.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 10, 2010, 03:21:06 pm
Was out for a ride this morning and noticed the series of very short cycle lanes in Tattersall Gardens, Hadleigh. SBC seem to like doing pointless things for cyclists:
They just want us in the gutter or better still not cycling at all!

Meanwhile the comments keep coming.
Southend seafront cycle lane ‘not safe’ (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8091356.Southend_seafront_cycle_lane____not_safe___/?ref=mr)
Council’s slant on Southend seafront parking is confusing drivers (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/7986813.Council___s_slant_on_Southend_seafront_parking_is_confusing_drivers/?ref=mc)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 10, 2010, 05:46:19 pm
I have just received a reply to my (several) emails:


Dear Mr ******
Please see the officers response below which I trust addresses your concerns.
Anna Waite
Cllr Anna Waite, Southend Borough Council


 

 
-----Original Message-----


From: Mehmet Mazhar
To: CllrWaite; Zulfiqar Ali
Sent: Wed Apr 07 16:07:40 2010
Subject: RE: New cycle path west of Southend pier. SERIOUS safety concerns. [Virus Control Checked]

Dear Anna,

Please find my draft reply to Mr ******'s email below. Unfortunately my system cannot see his  address. Could you forward it to me please so that I may send him the reply, or alternatively forward it on please. Thank you.


Dear Mr ******,
Thank you for your email and for bringing your concerns to our attention. I apologise for the delay in replying to you.
Before replying to each of your points in turn, I would like to emphasise the new cycle route along the Western Esplanade is still under construction and has not been formally opened. Although some cyclists including you are using the track there are a number of features that have yet to be installed before the scheme goes ‘live’, in particular road markings and signage. Once the scheme is completed in its entirety, between the Pier and Chalkwell Avenue, there will be a formal opening ceremony and the enforcement of the traffic regulations will then commence. This will deal with a large proportion of your concerns. However, I will now reply to each of your points in turn:
1.      As I have stated, the cycle track is still under construction. At the edge of the finished path there will be a raised rib white line, which will be 20mm in height. This will divert cyclist away from the edge of carriageway. It should also be noted that vehicles are now moving through the area at reduced speeds as the recent changes have brought in a natural traffic calming effect as a by-product of the scheme.
2.      The kerb, which has an upstand and raised line, would in the first instance deflect and errant drivers back onto the carriageway and in the second instance alert them that they have strayed from their path via the ‘rumble’ effect the raised line would provide. It should also be noted that this scenario could occur on any pavement. Some footways in the borough have a lesser upstand than the new cycle track due to years of carriageway resurfacing.
3.      The edge of the cycle lane raised rib line will be moved in a little at this point to ensure that there is an adequate buffer zone between the edge of the cycle track and the edge of the parking area. Our parking enforcement service will be advised that vehicles which park outside the bay will be issued with Parking Charge Notices (PCN), as a deterrent.
4.       Once the scheme is formally opened, the parking regulations will be enforced. The yellow line waiting restrictions apply to the back of footway, therefore any vehicles parking on the cycle track or the promenade may receive a PCN.
5.      There will be marking on the cycle track, which will clearly identify it as a two-way cycle track, not for pedestrian use. Pedestrians currently cross the road between the parking area and the Esplanade. All road users, including cyclists and pedestrians are required to exercise due care and attention to themselves and other road users. In reality most pedestrians will probably wait until cyclists have passed, before crossing.

 I would like to thank you for the video link you provided. It’s encouraging to see that cyclists are already using and enjoying the new cycle track, even in its unfinished state. Once it is fully complete, I have no doubt that it will be a much used and enjoyed facility by the community.

The introduction of a dedicated two-way cycle track along the Western Esplanade is a positive approach to the issue of providing a combined off-road leisure and commuter route, which reallocates road space within existing constraints and provides extra width to cater for the many cyclists that ride on the promenade and along the Western Esplanade.

The approach that we have adopted in the design of this cycle route is similar in many ways to two-way and contra-flow cycle lanes in towns and cities across Europe (e.g. Copenhagen and Stockholm), where the only delineation between motorists and cyclists is a standard kerb. Some of these schemes are considered best practice and as a Cycling Demonstration Town this is what we also aspire to.
Having said this, I would like to assure you we have taken your concerns seriously and I would like to reassure you that and that as part of our design processes we monitoring this scheme after its implementation, to ensure that it is successful. At the same time as the scheme is formally opened we will be offering training and advice to cyclists by our trained team of cycling officers.

In the meantime, if you have any further queries regarding this matter please do not hesitate to contact me.





Kind regards,

Mehmet

Mehmet Mazhar
Interim Group Manager
Traffic and Highways



So it looks to me like they are putting all their trust in painted markings to prevent injuries.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 10, 2010, 05:54:51 pm
I saw the first cyclist fall off there last night.

ok it was "only" a young child with stabilisers with the usual incident of too much weight on the left stabiliser and then turning across the camber of the path resulting in gravity winning, but it happened (and the kid bounced ok).

I can see the "raised white line" having a similar effect.  There's one along the centre of the path beside Canvey Lake to differentiate the pedestrian and cyclist sides.  I was along there in the rain once, with pedestrians on the cyclist side.  When I went to cross the line my wheels just slid sideways along it and the bike started falling over.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on April 10, 2010, 06:00:05 pm
Point 3. So the cycle path will be narrower than 2.5m?   :o

WTF is Mehmet Mazhar?   ???
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 10, 2010, 06:02:07 pm
Domestique picked up on that from the plans several pages ago.  We raised the narrow lane at the cycle group meeting.

2.5m minus the 0.5m for line minus the 0.2m for the kerb upstand equals 1.8m usable width.

Do keep up at the back there  :P
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 10, 2010, 06:05:21 pm
So as well as the ribbed white line there is also going to be a ribbed line on the low kerb?
Are they issuing PCN now for motor vehicles parking on the path now? (the eastern side)
How can they make it not for ped. use? My understanding of bike lanes is that peds can walk on them and have right of way over bikes, am I wrong?

So much like Copenhagen I wish I had Woolly with me to translate.  ::-)

I can see the "raised white line" having a similar effect.  There's one along the centre of the path beside Canvey Lake to differentiate the pedestrian and cyclist sides.
Similar to the lane around the records office in Chelmsford?
Clicky (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=51.730059,0.486418&daddr=51.729083,+0.485527&geocode=&hl=en&mra=mi&mrsp=0,1&sz=18&sll=51.729248,0.48504&sspn=0.002299,0.00478&ie=UTF8&ll=51.729208,0.485786&spn=0.002299,0.00478&t=h&z=18)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 10, 2010, 06:08:42 pm
...
The approach that we have adopted in the design of this cycle route is similar in many ways to two-way and contra-flow cycle lanes in towns and cities across Europe (e.g. Copenhagen and Stockholm), where the only delineation between motorists and cyclists is a standard kerb. Some of these schemes are considered best practice and as a Cycling Demonstration Town this is what we also aspire to.
...

The big difference there though is that they make the cycle lanes WIDE as per best practice.  They also avoid reducing the carriageway running width to be in the critical zone that puts road cyclists at risk, as mentioned some pages ago.

I have cycled good examples of these lanes.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on April 10, 2010, 06:08:54 pm
Sorry! But it's only fair to point out, as you were at the meeting, that Domestique wasn't there!!  Domestique is a gurl!!!

Keep up at the front there!   :smug:

Anyhow, it would appear that SBC might have been telling porkies to Cycling England!  
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 10, 2010, 06:11:14 pm
What did SBC tell Cycling England?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 10, 2010, 06:13:37 pm
...
I can see the "raised white line" having a similar effect.  There's one along the centre of the path beside Canvey Lake to differentiate the pedestrian and cyclist sides.
Similar to the lane around the records office in Chelmsford?
Clicky (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=51.730059,0.486418&daddr=51.729083,+0.485527&geocode=&hl=en&mra=mi&mrsp=0,1&sz=18&sll=51.729248,0.48504&sspn=0.002299,0.00478&ie=UTF8&ll=51.729208,0.485786&spn=0.002299,0.00478&t=h&z=18)

From memory the Chelmsford lines are just painted on the ground.  The Canvey one is a domed painted line around an inch thick in the centre (the 20mm referred to in the response above?).  Trying to cycle over it at an angle in the wet is nigh on impossible since the tyres just slide along it instead of gripping and riding up and over.

The problem with that is that the wheels don't go over the line but the cyclist does... at which point the bike becomes unbalanced and lays down.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 10, 2010, 06:22:04 pm
2.5m minus the 0.5m for line minus the 0.2m for the kerb upstand equals 1.8m usable width.
This needs to be highlighted

1.8 metres in total! Not 1.8m eastbound and another 1.8m westbound.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 10, 2010, 06:26:32 pm
2.5m minus the 0.5m for line minus the 0.2m for the kerb upstand equals 1.8m usable width.
This needs to be highlighted

1.8 metres in total! Not 1.8m eastbound and another 1.8m westbound.

Please be clear about this.  Don't be vague.

It's 0.9m eastbound and 0.9m westbound.

If there is a central divider lane painted (I'm not certain about that at present) then that will further reduce the widths!



If there is to be a formal opening ceremony I do hope families attend.  Aren't the child trailers 1m in width?  :demon: :demon: :demon:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 10, 2010, 06:41:21 pm
It's 0.9m eastbound and 0.9m westbound.
If there is a central divider lane painted (I'm not certain about that at present) then that will further reduce the widths!

If there is to be a formal opening ceremony I do hope families attend.  Aren't the child trailers 1m in width?  :demon: :demon: :demon:
My bent is 52cm wide! How much wobble room does the law allow?

We will never know until it's over when the lane is "officially" open.  ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 10, 2010, 06:41:26 pm
Also now the clowncil are planting palm trees along the edge of the cycle path, the original kerb stones, there will be extra costs involved if the need ever arises to increase the width of the path. There is no space to increase the width towards the road.
Why not plant the palm trees on the otherside of the footpath and not next to the cycle path.

Quote
Aren't the child trailers 1m in width?

I saw two bikes towing trailers attempt to pass each other on the Eastern path a few days ago. There was space to get past but it was an almost stopped situation to do it.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on April 10, 2010, 07:05:01 pm
Quote
My bent is 52cm wide! How much wobble room does the law allow?

I have never been able to find any legal requirements for the width of cycle paths. There are plenty of guide lines but not legal minimums.

In general it seems that most recomendations are for 1.5m bare minimum, 2m where possible and 2.5m where there is a heavy flow of bikes. These measurements are for one way so double them for a two way path.



As for Southends Path meeting the same design standards as similar paths in Copenhagen and Stockholme..... well I doubt it somehow. I will eat my hat if SBC hasnt just taken a few of the Copenhagen design specs that suit them ignored the ones that don't.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on April 10, 2010, 07:14:36 pm
WTF is Mehmet Mazhar?   ???

Someone who knows less than he should.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: teethgrinder on April 10, 2010, 07:29:15 pm
If there is to be a formal opening ceremony I do hope families attend.  Aren't the child trailers 1m in width?  :demon: :demon: :demon:

My trailer is about 0.7m wide.

I could always carry some large luggage though. Perhaps an inflatable for the beach. ;D

I don't know how wide trikes or tandem trikes can get.

If we find out the opening ceremony ride, perhaps we can use the path in the opposite direction on trikes and with trailers*. :demon:







*I'd have to use the trailer on account that I can't ride a trike.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 10, 2010, 07:42:44 pm
....
I will eat my hat if SBC hasnt just taken a few of the Copenhagen design specs that suit them ignored the ones that don't.

Don't forget that they were talking at the meeting of extracting "the best bits" from LTN2/08 and the London design manuals in order to create a Southend Specific design manual.

I wonder what the "worst bits" that they delete will be (and how much of the Cycling England funding that this process will eat up)?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 10, 2010, 07:46:27 pm
It's 0.9m eastbound and 0.9m westbound.
If there is a central divider lane painted (I'm not certain about that at present) then that will further reduce the widths!

If there is to be a formal opening ceremony I do hope families attend.  Aren't the child trailers 1m in width?  :demon: :demon: :demon:
My bent is 52cm wide! How much wobble room does the law allow?

We will never know until it's over when the lane is "officially" open.  ::-)

The windcheetah (which I have often used along there) is 68cm wide

The trailer is 84cm wide.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: teethgrinder on April 10, 2010, 08:00:30 pm
My trailer is about 0.7m wide.


The trailer is 84cm wide.

OK.
You win.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 10, 2010, 08:45:28 pm
it just means that I get a bigger and heavier prize  :(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 11, 2010, 10:46:04 am
I have replied:

Dear Mr Mazhar and Cllr Waite,

Thank you for responding to my concerns re. the new cycle path on Western Esplanade. I would like to respond point by point:

1 "At the edge of the finished path there will be a raised rib white line, which will be 20mm in height. This will divert cyclist away from the edge of carriageway."

How wide will this line be?
Will it be painted IN the cycle path or ON the kerb?
Will it further reduce the width of what is already a barely wide enough cycle path for two-way cycle traffic?
Will it be slippery in the rain causing tyres to slip out from under eastbound cyclists in turn causing them to fall left out of the cycle lane into oncoming traffic?

2. "The kerb, which has an upstand and raised line, would in the first instance deflect and errant drivers back onto the carriageway and in the second instance alert them that they have strayed from their path via the ‘rumble’ effect the raised line would provide. It should also be noted that this scenario could occur on any pavement. Some footways in the borough have a lesser upstand than the new cycle track due to years of carriageway resurfacing."

Whether this could happen on any footway is not really relevant as it is illegal to cycle on footpaths and the majority of cyclists would be using the road, not the footpath. Also Western Esplanade is different to other roads in the Borough in that it now has slanted parking bays in the centre of the road, where cars will be pulling out into traffic almost blind because the bays are slanted away from the direction of traffic and drivers have to look back over their shoulder and through parked cars to see if there is anything approaching.
On the new cycle track in Western Esplanade if a child does wobble off the cycle path into oncoming traffic the kerb will prevent them wobbling back onto the cycle path.
What is to prevent drivers swerving into the cycle path if they have to avoid someone pulling out of the new slanted parking bays by Maxims Casino?

3. "The edge of the cycle lane raised rib line will be moved in a little at this point to ensure that there is an adequate buffer zone between the edge of the cycle track and the edge of the parking area. Our parking enforcement service will be advised that vehicles which park outside the bay will be issued with Parking Charge Notices (PCN), as a deterrent."

So the cycle path width will indeed be reduced to below the recommended safe width for a two-way cycle track?
How will the threat of a Parking Ticket prevent doors being opened into the path of cyclists? If a ticket is being issued the offence has already occurred and the danger has not been prevented. This is a reactive measure and not a preventative measure.
The chevron area is not wide enough. It also does not prevent people standing in the cycle path taking most of its width while they load/unload their cars as very young children stand or run unpredictably in the path of cyclists. Experienced cyclists know how to approach such hazards, in summertime the vast majority using this cycle path will not be experienced cyclists.
The only safe solution to this hazard is to remove the parking bays from beside the cycle path.

4. "Once the scheme is formally opened, the parking regulations will be enforced. The yellow line waiting restrictions apply to the back of footway, therefore any vehicles parking on the cycle track or the promenade may receive a PCN."

The yellow lines, high kerbs, red tarmac, clear cycle path signs, and threat of parking tickets do not stop vehicles parking in the already established cycle path east of the Kursaal. See this video clip:


      YouTube
            - Ocean beach white van man
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mxKho5yQew)

I doubt very much that a two-inch kerb, double yellow lines, signs and a 'raised white line' will stop this happening on Western Esplanade which is the busiest section of Southend's seafront. There are several snack bars along this stretch where people pull in to buy refreshments and then drive off. Will they struggle to park in the new slanted parking bays, or will they pull into the cycle lane? I believe it is wildly over-optimistic to think they will use the new slanted parking bays as they are too difficult to get in and out of, and it will be much quicker to take the chance of stopping for a couple of minutes in the cycle lane.

5. "There will be marking on the cycle track, which will clearly identify it as a two-way cycle track, not for pedestrian use. Pedestrians currently cross the road between the parking area and the Esplanade. All road users, including cyclists and pedestrians are required to exercise due care and attention to themselves and other road users. In reality most pedestrians will probably wait until cyclists have passed, before crossing."

In reality very few pedestrians wait for cyclists to pass because they do not see the cycle path as 'dangerous', only a minority look before crossing the cycle path, experienced cyclists know this and adjust their speed in anticipation, inexperienced cyclists do not. Also if there are parking bays next to the cycle path any large vehicle, a 4x4 or van etc.' will obscure the cycle path from road crossing pedestrians and pedestrians from cyclists. Again, experienced cyclists know this, in summertime the great majority of cyclists will be inexperienced, with young families and completely unaware of the dangers. Also the great majority of pedestrians will be visitors to the town unaware of the seafront layout.

6. "The approach that we have adopted in the design of this cycle route is similar in many ways to two-way and contra-flow cycle lanes in towns and cities across Europe (e.g. Copenhagen and Stockholm), where the only delineation between motorists and cyclists is a standard kerb. Some of these schemes are considered best practice and as a Cycling Demonstration Town this is what we also aspire to."

The cycle paths on the European mainland are much, much wider than the new Western Esplanade cycle path which is only as wide as a one-way European cycle path.

7. "Having said this, I would like to assure you we have taken your concerns seriously and I would like to reassure you that and that as part of our design processes we monitoring this scheme after its implementation, to ensure that it is successful. At the same time as the scheme is formally opened we will be offering training and advice to cyclists by our trained team of cycling officers."

So if the Council does find the scheme to be dangerously flawed will it be redesigned to properly safe specifications? And will cyclist groups be properly consulted and included in the design stage, instead of being shown the plans just two days before works are completed as has happened with the Western Esplanade project?

Will you also be offering education to drivers that they have a responsibility to be aware of and drive carefully around vulnerable road users?

I believe it would have been much, much safer to simply resurface the existing road and paint a single direction cycle lane on each side of Western Esplanade, outside of any kerbside parking bays, possibly with different coloured tarmac in a similar style to the green advanced stop zones which have been added to various junctions in Southend. The coloured tarmac would have been a VERY clear indication of a cycle path. This would have maintained the carriageway width, leaving it safe to use for both experienced and inexperienced cyclists, and motorists would have been much more aware of the cycle path. It would also have been a lot cheaper.

As it is now both cycle lane and carriageway are either at or below the bare minimum recommended width causing congestion and hazards for both cyclists and motorists. If cyclists are forced out of the cycle lane they cannot get back into it because of the kerb, and while in the carriageway there is not enough width for cars, coaches, vans, trucks etc. to safely pass cyclists.

I have to reiterate, I believe this new cycle path is a very ill-thought out design, and collisions ARE going to happen, possibly with very serious consequences for those involved

Again, thank you both for responding to my concerns, but as you can see, I remain unconvinced that some signs and paint on the cycle lane will have very much effect on improving cyclist/pedestrian/motorist safety.

Kind regards,
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 11, 2010, 10:59:05 am
Well done clandy.  :thumbsup: I think your fourth from last paragraph is well put and the best way to achieve what the SBC want for the W. Esplanade.

They know how to do bike lanes in NL.
 A view from the cycle path - David Hembrow: Costings of improvements for cyclists (http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2009/11/costings-of-improvements-for-cyclists.html)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on April 11, 2010, 12:01:31 pm
Well done clandy.  :thumbsup: I think your fourth from last paragraph is well put and the best way to achieve what the SBC want for the W. Esplanade.


I suggested exactly that to the "Traffic Engineer" at the cycle group, his reponse was that we've got what we've got and it has been safety audited.    :-\
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: David Martin on April 11, 2010, 02:47:55 pm
Well done clandy.  :thumbsup: I think your fourth from last paragraph is well put and the best way to achieve what the SBC want for the W. Esplanade.


I suggested exactly that to the "Traffic Engineer" at the cycle group, his reponse was that we've got what we've got and it has been safety audited.    :-\

Ask him for a copy of the safety audit. Make it clear that this is a FOI request.
..d
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on April 11, 2010, 04:13:37 pm
Well done clandy.  :thumbsup: I think your fourth from last paragraph is well put and the best way to achieve what the SBC want for the W. Esplanade.


I suggested exactly that to the "Traffic Engineer" at the cycle group, his reponse was that we've got what we've got and it has been safety audited.    :-\

Ask him for a copy of the safety audit. Make it clear that this is a FOI request.
..d

Already in hand.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 11, 2010, 04:49:07 pm

Ask him for a copy of the safety audit. Make it clear that this is a FOI request.
..d


Was CCd into this today:

Hello Mehmet
 
I have had enquiries from residents from all over the town in respect of the matter raised in the attached emails. People are asking for my input as Health & Safety Champion. I have been copied into your correspondence with Mr ****** and I would reiterate my request to the two Andrews, for sight of the Safety Audit which was done in respect of this project.
 
From my own perspective I think that this whole project is flawed and be put back to the drawing board. Three points I would make on this scenario are, you quote Copenhagen & Stockholm, when I last looked they drive on the other side of the road and in most States of America it is illegal to back into a parking space, you have to drive into a chevron space in the direction you are heading. Thirdly the parking along the side of the cycle lane is a serious accident waiting to happen.
 
Your comments and sight of the Safety Audit would be appreciated asap please.
 
Kind regards
Mike
 
 
Mike Assenheim
Independent Councillor
Shoeburyness Ward
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 11, 2010, 05:27:21 pm
Since Cllr Assenheim is the Health and Safety representative (so I believe personally responsible for issues?) will he be bringing this matter to the attention of the Health and Safety Executive, or is this down to the concerned residents/cyclists?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 11, 2010, 05:49:15 pm
Since Cllr Assenheim is the Health and Safety representative (so I believe personally responsible for issues?) will he be bringing this matter to the attention of the Health and Safety Executive, or is this down to the concerned residents/cyclists?
Won't they only get involved in work related deaths and serious injury?
Beats me why this hasn't made national news yet? Last week they had a laugh at the short cycle lane somewhere and the Leatherhead lanes. Did A. Wasteite have a moonlight in Surrey?  ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 12, 2010, 10:33:12 pm
Been out for a walk this evening.  I went along a quiet road with some bollards across it and remembered how I used to cycle through there on my way to infant and then junior school every day.

I also remembered how I used to always stop and walk through there because I was scared of cycling into one of the bollards.  I can still remember with pride the first day I did cycle it without stopping, and how I then made a point of doing so each day.

The central gap is about 95cm wide.


Now, if I can remember being a small child and being too scared to ride through a gap 95cm wide on a traffic free road... how are the young children going to cope with a new cycle lane where they have around 90cm to thread between oncoming cyclists and cars?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 12, 2010, 10:45:35 pm
This has been bugging me.  I think I've put my finger on it...

I have just received a reply to my (several) emails:



...
 It should also be noted that vehicles are now moving through the area at reduced speeds as the recent changes have brought in a natural traffic calming effect as a by-product of the scheme.

2.      The kerb, which has an upstand and raised line, would in the first instance deflect and errant drivers back onto the carriageway and in the second instance alert them that they have strayed from their path via the ‘rumble’ effect the raised line would provide. It should also be noted that this scenario could occur on any pavement. Some footways in the borough have a lesser upstand than the new cycle track due to years of carriageway resurfacing.
...


1.  The workmen I spoke to said that the reason for narrowing the carriageway was to introduce a traffic calming effect, so this response is simply claiming that the intention has been met.

HOWEVER.... I usually ride this route in the evening rush hour, when it's not congested.  The traffic usually flows at around 28mph (just fast enough for me to not overtake if I'm on the motorbike).   I am seeing the traffic flowing AT THE SAME SPEED now, other than when there's a cyclist holding up the queue.  In other words I am not seeing any change in peak rush hour flow; but I am seeing increased congestion at many other times.

Since there are NOT any traffic monitoring devices down there at the moment where are they getting the facts from to claim that the traffic is slower???



2. The issue with the kerb is that if a cyclist leaves the path and enters the road, they cannot get back onto the path.    This dangerous point seems to have been overlooked in the responses.

"The rumble effect of the line" does this mean that instead of a smooth painted line they're going to use motorway hard shoulder style rumble markings, INCREASING the risk to cyclists?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: simonp on April 13, 2010, 12:13:31 am
"The rumble effect of the line" does this mean that instead of a smooth painted line they're going to use motorway hard shoulder style rumble markings, INCREASING the risk to cyclists?

Yes.  Of course.  That's exactly what they'll do.

You see, these people are morons.  Any sense of incredulity should have gone by now.

They've put tactile paving down outside the Science Park here where the Misguided Bus passes, and you have to cross the busway.  You have to make a sharp turn across the tactile paving to make the crossing, and also to turn from the path into the Science Park.  So when it's icy/wet how much grip were there be on these tramline type things, then?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 13, 2010, 12:51:37 am
We've got the tramline corduroy paving slabs used as the ramp up and down either side of the speed bumps that make the raised zebra crossing  ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 13, 2010, 05:13:26 pm
The ped. crossing near shorefield road, have you seen where the beliesha beacon is  >:(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 13, 2010, 05:20:07 pm
The ped. crossing near shorefield road, have you seen where the beliesha beacon is  >:(
I walked past there yesterday morning. They where still digging up the asphalt to put in the tactile slabs. I think the beacon is in the middle of the new path.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 13, 2010, 05:22:50 pm
Do I need to take a camera there in the morning?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 13, 2010, 05:25:03 pm
Just got shouted at, 'Get in the cycle lane!' Opposite the casino, by a driving instructor with a pupil!

Video to follow...
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 13, 2010, 05:25:57 pm
Do I need to take a camera there in the morning?

You might, it all depends how p*ssed off you want to be  :hand:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 13, 2010, 05:27:43 pm
Do I need to take a camera there in the morning?
Don't go on what I said, it is just a guess, Domestique knows.

They are moving the crossing and not adding a second there aren't they? The original one, just west of the junction, would have been a help to those turning right onto Shorefield. People stop the road and allow the waiting vehicles to do the turn.
You might, it all depends how p*ssed off you want to be  :hand:
If it's that bad I might pop down there this evening with my camera. What have they done?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 13, 2010, 05:29:14 pm
Just got shouted at, 'Get in the cycle lane!' Opposite the casino, by a driving instructor with a pupil!
Perhaps the instructor needs educating on use of and non use of cycle lanes! Was it a well advertised school?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 13, 2010, 05:29:40 pm
Just got shouted at, 'Get in the cycle lane!' Opposite the casino, by a driving instructor with a pupil!

Video to follow...

Well that's certainly something I'd be taking up with the driving school.  If the driving instructor doesn't know the highway code that is a concern.

Is the lane open yet, or still coned off?  If not open that's a second black mark against the instructor for a lack of observation.



Right, I'm off home...  via an alternative route.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 13, 2010, 05:30:22 pm
I cycled past the crossing about an hour ago. They've made it level with the cycle lane, removed the raised area.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 13, 2010, 05:34:13 pm
Just got shouted at, 'Get in the cycle lane!' Opposite the casino, by a driving instructor with a pupil!
Perhaps the instructor needs educating on use of and non use of cycle lanes! Was it a well advertised school?

'Lin Western', looks like a one man band school.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 13, 2010, 05:34:59 pm
You might, it all depends how p*ssed off you want to be  :hand:
If it's that bad I might pop down there this evening with my camera. What have they done?

The post is about .5m inside the drop kerb. It might not be the cycle lane at that point as it is really the ped crossing.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 13, 2010, 05:42:32 pm
The post is about .5m inside the drop kerb. It might not be the cycle lane at that point as it is really the ped crossing.
From the pavement side?
It's to allow two west bound cyclists to lean on it while waiting for peds to cross.  :thumbsup:
WARNING!
May contain sarcasm and nuts!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Oaky on April 13, 2010, 05:43:03 pm
Just got shouted at, 'Get in the cycle lane!' Opposite the casino, by a driving instructor with a pupil!
Perhaps the instructor needs educating on use of and non use of cycle lanes! Was it a well advertised school?

'Lin Western', looks like a one man band school.

This suggests they are a "Group":-  Driving Lessons Southend Driving Lessons Hockley (http://www.linwestern.co.uk/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 13, 2010, 05:44:59 pm
Just got shouted at, 'Get in the cycle lane!' Opposite the casino, by a driving instructor with a pupil!

Video to follow...

Which direction where you travelling, towards Southend or Chalkwell?

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 13, 2010, 05:57:07 pm
Just got shouted at, 'Get in the cycle lane!' Opposite the casino, by a driving instructor with a pupil!

Video to follow...

Which direction where you travelling, towards Southend or Chalkwell?



Towards Southend.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 13, 2010, 06:27:05 pm
Even worse!

There isn't a cycle lane along the Southend bound carriageway.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 13, 2010, 06:28:47 pm
You might, it all depends how p*ssed off you want to be  :hand:
If it's that bad I might pop down there this evening with my camera. What have they done?

The post is about .5m inside the drop kerb. It might not be the cycle lane at that point as it is really the ped crossing.

 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

I got up the courage to ride home that way.  It is the cycle lane all the way along there, the plans just showed it as "Give Way" markings at that point (from memory).

So having given way the cyclists can then cycle into the pole. :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 13, 2010, 06:31:18 pm
Nutty, if you look at the crossing on the plans it shows a green circle next to the crossing. If I am right that is the post that is now ready for some poor soul to cycle into  :hand:
Ps it isnt even painted in Hi-viz  :-\
Pps but its not finished yet.......
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 13, 2010, 06:50:05 pm
Is this the crossing in question?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/CrossingBeacon.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 13, 2010, 06:56:10 pm
Yup.

From that viewpoint it doesn't look as bad as it did from the road.  Don't know whether that's how its captured on the video or the perspective.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 13, 2010, 07:00:17 pm
If you freeze frame at 0.03 it doesn't look brilliant.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 13, 2010, 07:05:07 pm
It's the new Leatherhead Lollipop Pole style and it'll have hand painted chevrons front and rear on the ground.  ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 13, 2010, 09:08:56 pm

      YouTube
            - Driving 'instructor'.shouts at other road users.
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pURsltmhJCs)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 14, 2010, 08:06:08 am
Perhaps this is the Highway Code she adheres to…

Highway Code: Amended Rules &laquo;  The Sometimes Angry… (http://sometimesangry.wordpress.com/category/highway-code-amended-rules/)

Regarding the real Highway Code she should brush up on rules 148 and 151.

148
Safe driving and riding needs concentration.
Avoid distractions when driving or riding such as
loud music (this may mask other sounds)
trying to read maps
inserting a cassette or CD or tuning a radio
arguing with your passengers or other road users
eating and drinking
smoking
You MUST NOT smoke in public transport vehicles or in vehicles used for work purposes in certain prescribed circumstances. Separate regulations apply to England, Wales and Scotland.

151
In slow-moving traffic. You should
reduce the distance between you and the vehicle ahead to maintain traffic flow
never get so close to the vehicle in front that you cannot stop safely
leave enough space to be able to manoeuvre if the vehicle in front breaks down or an emergency vehicle needs to get past
not change lanes to the left to overtake
allow access into and from side roads, as blocking these will add to congestion
be aware of cyclists and motorcyclists who may be passing on either side
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 14, 2010, 10:30:15 am
Just back from a shopping trip and took a detour along the front from Shorefield Rd. to the Pier Hill Lift, ICBA to ride up Pier Hill  ::-)  :-[. As well as the new beacon pole in the path there is also at least one bus stop to be painted onto the road/cycle lane. There are also plenty of bins, seats, and sign poles that are only a kerb stone width from the lane. Outside the casino they also have low bollards next to the kerb.

Came back via North Road. They have removed the lane lines and the bicycle symbols from the southern end to  the Tudor Road turn. What are they going to do there?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on April 14, 2010, 11:17:51 am

      YouTube
            - Driving 'instructor'.shouts at other road users.
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pURsltmhJCs)

Just sayin' (http://www.dsa.gov.uk/Category.asp?cat=664)

Quote from: DSA
If you have a complaint about an instructor that you cannot sort out with them, the driving school or the contractor, you can write to the Registrar of ADIs at DSA Headquarters, Nottingham.

Mind you, if you go to this page:

DSA homepage > Policy, guidance and research > Road safety (http://www.dsa.gov.uk/Category.asp?cat=672)

You can find the information below:

Quote from: DSA on Road Safety
...

Seriously.  A blank page. ::-)

ADI Registration Check Tests (http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?r.l5=1082105847&r.s=sc&r.l4=1082104385&r.l1=1081597476&r.lc=en&r.l3=1082103911&r.l2=1082103262&type=RESOURCES&itemId=1082106680)

Quote
...Instructor characteristics

You will also be assessed on your instructor characteristics, ie your attitude and approach to your pupil.

As part of the overall assessment, the examiner will look at:

...

        * your manner, patience, tact and ability to inspire confidence
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 14, 2010, 11:54:20 am
Quote
...Instructor characteristics

You will also be assessed on your instructor characteristics, ie your attitude and approach to your pupil.

As part of the overall assessment, the examiner will look at:

...

        * your manner, patience, tact and ability to inspire confidence

She must moonlight as a bus driving and black cab instructor on the weekends.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 14, 2010, 01:28:36 pm
Just after the casino, direction Chalkwell, does anyone know why the double yellow lines become a single yellow line for 25m ?

Is that for a coach/bus stop ?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 14, 2010, 07:48:44 pm
Well following an email to the Lin Western group yesterday, this evening I have had a very contrite call from the instructor concerned and a full and unreserved apology for her behaviour.
I had to correct her when she said, 'When there are cyclists along that stretch of road it does make it very difficult for drivers'… I pointed out that cyclists are just as entitled to use the road, are valid traffic, and that things 'being difficult' for drivers is not my problem, my problem is people shouting out of their windows at vulnerable road users and passing too close.

I don't think she will be doing it again in a hurry.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: spindrift on April 14, 2010, 08:00:18 pm

      YouTube
            - Driving 'instructor'.shouts at other road users.
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pURsltmhJCs)

I get "This video is private"?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on April 14, 2010, 08:01:05 pm
Nice one Clandy :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 14, 2010, 08:04:45 pm

      YouTube
            - Driving 'instructor'.shouts at other road users.
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pURsltmhJCs)

I get "This video is private"?

Yes. It has achieved its aim, so I feel there is no need to leave it up.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: spen666 on April 14, 2010, 08:12:02 pm

      YouTube
            - Driving 'instructor'.shouts at other road users.
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pURsltmhJCs)

I get "This video is private"?

He doesn't like you  ;D ;D ;D

Seriously seems you are too late to see it from OP's last post
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 16, 2010, 01:06:35 pm
Any news on the safety audit request?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on April 16, 2010, 06:40:01 pm
Any news on the safety audit request?
Very quiet. Very quiet indeed.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 17, 2010, 01:01:35 pm
I had a ride along the seafront to Chalkwell Ave this morning. I dont remember seeing on the plans that the cycle lane was going to go all the along the western esplanade  :-\
I presume the painted lane heading east is going to go  :-\
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 19, 2010, 09:19:40 am
Ran into TwoFlatErics and Domestique yesterday, nice meeting you! Sorry I couldn't chat longer, I was on the fast leg of my ride!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on April 19, 2010, 06:08:25 pm
Good to finally catch up with you Clandy. I've seen you wizz past in the opposite direction a couple of times, but too quick for me to catch you.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 20, 2010, 11:11:37 am
OK, this has gone on for some time, so I thought I'd summarise the main problems and then look at resolutions.


Irrespective of some views of cycle lanes/paths we have to acknowledge that this is a seafront area and so we should be encouraging all cyclists, e.g. slow moving family tourist groups, not just hardened commuters/racers.

Solutions.
1) Do nothing
Not acceptable.


2) Rectify at minimal cost



3) Rectify at any cost

Option 1

Option 2.



Your thoughts?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on April 20, 2010, 11:21:21 am
I was seriously considering paying for the necessary costs in taking out an injunction and going for JR on the whole Priory Crescent scheme. Legal advice was that we had a strong case but we couldn't get a solicitor to take it on under the terms of legal aid.

The case was based on:-

Councillors going on the record stating that Priory Crescent wouldn't be touched, yet the plans proving otherwise.

Anna Waite's open letter to Shaun Qureshi of 16/4/09 which stated that any new scheme would include improved facilities for pedestrians and cyclists. These plans clearly don't: the pavement outside the Catholic Church on teh corner of PC/ Manners Way will be reduced to about 1 metre in width - from nearly 3 metres.

The indisputable fact that the Council have ridden roughshod over their own stated policy regarding the Cycle User Group.

I eventually decided that it would be too risky because any JR would cause a delay and if that delay meant that some massive contract with a civil engineer had to be cancelled, we would probably done for a 6 figure sum in costs if we had lost.

I'm not sure what can be done, Nutty. Just be aware that this council has a track record of putting the frighteners on political campaigners - not just in naming people who have never been near the place as defendants in an application for possession. To my knowledge they have form dating back to 2002 and probably further.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 20, 2010, 11:33:26 am
Solution 3 option 2 for me please.  :thumbsup: </dream>

SBC will go for solution 1.  :facepalm:

As the complaints/injuries/deaths mount they'll consider solution 2 but solution 1, after $time, will win out.
In some future election year they'll big up solution 3, start solution 2, and end at solution 1.

In some further dream of SBC Utopia no one will cycle along the seafront, because of the known dangers that cyclist have continuously pointed out, and all cycle facilities will be removed with no one cycles any more as the stated cause. A four lane dual carriageway, with car parking spaces at the sides and some in the middle, will be installed. Complaints about cyclist in the road will cause SBC to think about a cycle lane and they'll promise to listen to cyclists...
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 20, 2010, 11:40:35 am
Meant to mention, spotted these two blogs recently.

Longpier: NEWS: Your thoughts on Southend's new cycle lanes (http://longpier.blogspot.com/2010/04/news-your-thoughts-on-southends-new.html)

Longpier: NEWS: Can you make Southend better? (http://longpier.blogspot.com/2010/04/news-can-you-make-southend-better.html)

Does anybody know any local businesses that will be attending the meeting on the 22nd?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Regulator on April 20, 2010, 12:12:58 pm
Meant to mention, spotted these two blogs recently.

Longpier: NEWS: Your thoughts on Southend's new cycle lanes (http://longpier.blogspot.com/2010/04/news-your-thoughts-on-southends-new.html)

Longpier: NEWS: Can you make Southend better? (http://longpier.blogspot.com/2010/04/news-can-you-make-southend-better.html)

Does anybody know any local businesses that will be attending the meeting on the 22nd?

Isn't the Longpier blog actually Anna Waite's blog?  ???
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: alexb on April 20, 2010, 12:35:03 pm
I'm not entirely clear on your list, but how about, move the on road parallel parking to the cycle lane (i.e. make the cycle lane into parking spaces). This gives you back the carriageway width and allows confident on-road cyclists to make good progress with less intereference with/from cars.
Allow cycling on the promenade as shared use - which is what everyone used to do anyway.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on April 20, 2010, 01:13:14 pm
Totten said at the last meeting that reducing parking WAS NOT an option. So any option causing a loss of parking spaces will be rejected out of hand.  :(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 20, 2010, 01:48:22 pm
The markings are down on part of the cycle path. It has made an enormous difference*:


      YouTube
            - Southend cycle lane markings.mp4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtSkcwX_rZA)

Notice the cycle path is now even narrower thanks to the white line that is going to miraculously prevent cars mounting the cycle path, people opening doors into cyclists, and children wandering off the path...


(excuse the snotty nose, hell of a headwind this morning!)
   


*sarcasm.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on April 20, 2010, 02:07:59 pm
::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 20, 2010, 02:20:01 pm
Meant to mention, spotted these two blogs recently.

Longpier: NEWS: Your thoughts on Southend's new cycle lanes (http://longpier.blogspot.com/2010/04/news-your-thoughts-on-southends-new.html)

Longpier: NEWS: Can you make Southend better? (http://longpier.blogspot.com/2010/04/news-can-you-make-southend-better.html)

Does anybody know any local businesses that will be attending the meeting on the 22nd?

Isn't the Longpier blog actually Anna Waite's blog?  ???

Not certain.  I know that www seasidenews net is (dots removed in order to prevent it linking).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 20, 2010, 02:20:25 pm
clandy - nice to see that it's still operating as predicted.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 20, 2010, 02:28:39 pm
Thanks clandy. Clarion's post is subtle and to the point.
Is there going to be a lane line to separate east/west bound riders too or just a free for all?   :facepalm:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Regulator on April 20, 2010, 02:37:03 pm
Meant to mention, spotted these two blogs recently.

Longpier: NEWS: Your thoughts on Southend's new cycle lanes (http://longpier.blogspot.com/2010/04/news-your-thoughts-on-southends-new.html)

Longpier: NEWS: Can you make Southend better? (http://longpier.blogspot.com/2010/04/news-can-you-make-southend-better.html)

Does anybody know any local businesses that will be attending the meeting on the 22nd?

Isn't the Longpier blog actually Anna Waite's blog?  ???

Not certain.  I know that www seasidenews net is (dots removed in order to prevent it linking).

Ah - that might be it.  I knew she had a local blog....
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on April 20, 2010, 03:21:15 pm
Personally I would like to see a consistant approach along the whole of the seafront from Sheobury all the way through to chalkwell.

If costs were not a problem then

The current scheme should be scrapped and removed.
Remove the segregated path on eastern esplanade as well.
Widen the road by taking out parking bays and central hashed areas where approapriate.
Paint on carriage way lanes for fast or commuting cyclists.
Make promenade shared use for peds and slow/family cyclists.

If the daft schemes are removed then I think that the carrigeway can be made wide enough again to do all of this. It gives the faster confident cyclist the option of using the road in safety. Also gives the leisure/child/family cyclists a nice safe place to cycle off of the road. Even the motorists will be happier because they get wider carrigeways back.

It won't be cheep but then major infrastructure projects rarely are.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 20, 2010, 04:02:46 pm
Quote
Your thoughts?

I.E. - The parking bays next to the Three Shells/cycle path

Why not move the parking bays that run alongside the cyclepath over to the central reservation?
At least then it takes away the dooring risk, and the council doesnt lose any parking bays.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on April 20, 2010, 04:10:10 pm
Good idea... but then traffic flows between the cars being unloaded and the pavement.  

We're already complaining that unloading onto the cycle path is a hazard for all, so if we were to move the parking to the central reservation there (which only allows a narrow carriageway remaining) we need to ensure that any design is a safe design and can allow for that parking to be relocated there and pedestrians to get out and make their way to the pavement safely.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: longpier on April 21, 2010, 09:51:05 am
Hi everyone

Very first post on this excellent forum.

My name is James Harrod and I'm the editor of the Longpier website mentioned on the previous page.

I would like to take this opportunity to say that Longpier.com has no affiliation to Anna Waite, nor is it related to any political party or allegiance.

Longpier.com prides itself on being a politically impartial news, sport and features site for Southend and surrounding areas.  If you read the post about the cycle lanes, you will see I was canvassing opinion on the lanes themselves, because they have become such a taking point in Southend, regarding issues of safety.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and do continue to enjoy Longpier.com

James Harrod
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Regulator on April 21, 2010, 09:55:33 am
Meant to mention, spotted these two blogs recently.

Longpier: NEWS: Your thoughts on Southend's new cycle lanes (http://longpier.blogspot.com/2010/04/news-your-thoughts-on-southends-new.html)

Longpier: NEWS: Can you make Southend better? (http://longpier.blogspot.com/2010/04/news-can-you-make-southend-better.html)


Isn't the Longpier blog actually Anna Waite's blog?  ???

Hi everyone

Very first post on this excellent forum.

My name is James Harrod and I'm the editor of the blog you mention above.

I would like to take this opportunity to say that Longpier.com has no affiliation to Anna Waite, nor is it related to any political party or allegiance.

Longpier.com prides itself on being a politically impartial news, sport and features site for Southend and surrounding areas.  If you read the post about the cycle lanes, you will see I was canvassing opinion on the lanes themselves, because they have become such a taking point in Southend, regarding issues of safety.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and do continue to enjoy Longpier.com

James Harrod
Hi James

Welcome to YACF!

Sorry for suggesting that you were Anna Waite   :-[

I was getting confused with her Seaside News blog.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: simonp on April 22, 2010, 12:33:49 am
I'm afraid you're stuck with it. We've had the cherry hinton high street mess for the best part of 20 years. Maybe more.

When complaints are made the response is "well, we wouldn't do it that way now".

However, they will not rip it out - too costly. And also they would lose face. As for doing it differently, I'm afraid that they keep making the same mistakes again and again. Particularly with "cycle lanes no matter how narrow are better than nothign" and cycle lanes next to parking bays with no hatching and so on.

They won't fix it and it'll still be there in 2030.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: alexb on April 22, 2010, 10:17:07 am
converting their pointless new cycle lane into parking spaces would be a simple matter of scrubbing out the bike pictures and scrubbing off the roadway parking markings.
Then you are back to a usable road.
So restoring what's already been done in Southend shouldn't cost too much.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 25, 2010, 12:31:49 pm
I drafted a roadie from Shoebury up to the pier on Friday, not outrageously fast, we averaged perhaps 25mph. When we got to the new cycle path I stopped to switch on the helmet cam while he carried on. A few moments later I was accosted by an irate leisure cyclist raving about the 'madman' who just passed him further up the path. He was talking about how dangerously he was moving and that the council 'should put a speed limit' on the path… I tried explaining that since the narrowing of the road many cyclist feel forced to use the path, and that that includes people who are trying to get somewhere quickly and not just pootle along at walking speed.

If the path is causing this kind of friction between cyclists, come summertime its going to be a bloodbath between pedestrians, cyclists and drivers.

He pointed to the Moulton and said, 'Obviously I don't mean you would be going that fast on that…'  I was tempted, very tempted to take off flat out...
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 26, 2010, 03:30:34 pm
I had a look at the path this morning from the Cliffs Pavillion. From that position I could see the new Traffic Separation Line, approx. 300mm from kerb into the cycle path, and the new cycle emblems painted on the path itself, every 100 metres and bike looks upright in the direction of travel. Even from the top of the cliffs it looks way too narrow!  :facepalm:

I also heard earlier that work has started on the Prittle Brook Greenway. They are going to close off sections to work on it and move on. Currently between Prittlewell Chase and Victoria Avenue, behind the old DSA test centre. Don't know how much they'll close of the section between Springfield Drive and Southbourne Grove though.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 26, 2010, 06:34:29 pm
Just had a pootle around the town, very unusual for me to do that, and took a couple of shots of the "in progress" Prittle Brook Greenway.
First of all you'll find the works currently here, Clicky (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=51.550941,0.70092&spn=0.000442,0.001415&t=h&z=20). If you follow the path to the right you get to Victoria Avenue. Presumably you'll then get the usual Cyclists Dimount and have to walk across the road to get to the park or the cycle path to head south into town.

This shot looks NWish, Gainsborough Park on the right. Where the kids are is another section of the Greenway.
(http://www.delthebike.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/path00.jpg)
Now SEish and the disused DSA test centre to the right and the closed off path. Approx. two metres wide from fence to grass. AFAIK it's a shared path.
(http://www.delthebike.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/path01.jpg)
The Victoria Avenue entrance. By the look of things there will be block paving, like from where the other shots were taken or tactile paving, and probably tarmac between the entrances.
(http://www.delthebike.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/path02.jpg)

P.S. I forgot to mention that I rode the new section of seafront path from the ramp at Adventure Island all the way until the roadworks, just past Shorefield Ave, sent me onto the road again. It feels wonderfully wide going in the same direction as the road, east to west, but no way is wide enough for two opposing lanes! No problem overtaking a slower cyclist and the few peds, and skaters, didn't pose a problem either but I didn't get an eastbound cyclist to go head to head with.  It's quite lumpy and most of the drains are sunken!
 
The white line separating the motorised from the cycle path is just a slightly raised convex shaped line, possibly has anti slip grit embedded but I didn't stop to get a closer look. I'd imagine in the wet it'll be like ice!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 27, 2010, 12:27:51 pm
This morning:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/oceanbeachbolockagain.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/Activitiescentreblock.jpg)

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 27, 2010, 12:46:11 pm
I am not to sure what the approach is with cars/vans blocking the path.
Maybe a picture needs to be taken and emailed to the council to see how they intend to deal with the problem, and it is a problem imo.

Btw if you are around the hospital from 2-4pm today, Tuesday, there is free bike security tagging taking place by the old main entrance  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 27, 2010, 12:53:56 pm
I am not to sure what the approach is with cars/vans blocking the path.
Maybe a picture needs to be taken and emailed to the council to see how they intend to deal with the problem, and it is a problem imo.

I have done this many times in the past but nothing gets done. The council just say 'it's a parking issue' and the Parking Enforcement say, 'We can't do anything unless we catch them actually doing it…' If it was me I would install a barrier right along the kerb in front of Ocean Beach and the Activities Centre, and paint the cycle lane like a box junction. Perhaps we need somewhere online to post photographs every time the lane is blocked.

Btw if you are around the hospital from 2-4pm today, Tuesday, there is free bike security tagging taking place by the old main entrance  :thumbsup:

Got mine done last year at Chalkwell by the bowling greens. ;)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on April 27, 2010, 01:08:57 pm
Every morning at around 08:15, the council dust cart drives along the cycle path collecting refuse. If they can't prevent their own vehicles from driving in a cycle lane they've got no hope of stopping other people.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 27, 2010, 01:47:09 pm
We need a line of bikes spread across the front of the bar so the delivery has to walk a looong way to the door. That'll show 'em what a handcart is for!  :demon:

And stationary bikes dotted along the path for the refuse lorry to drive around.  :demon:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 27, 2010, 02:55:35 pm
I sent the following email to Guardian Doors this morning:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I would like to ask, is this how your company encourages its drivers to park? Your van in this picture is parked on double yellow lines and in a designated cycle lane. For your driver's information: double yellow lines are deemed to extend all the way to the pavement. This photograph was taken at 10.24am today, 27 April as the accompanying timestamped video shows, here:
      YouTube
            - Guardian doors Van RF59 FFX parked illegally in Southend Cycle Lane
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh7ncPRP9j8)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/Activitiescentreblock.jpg)

Yours etc.



and have now received the following reply:

Dear sir
 
We have spoken to our operative already and given him formal warning regarding this ridiculous parking.
 
I sincerely apologise for his actions. Being a cyclist myself I share your frustration with ignorant lazy  people such as this.
 
Sorry for any inconvenience caused.
 
R*** E******
General Manager



Good to see such a prompt reply and action on their part.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on April 27, 2010, 02:57:24 pm
Top marks to R*** E****** for his frank expression of his annoyance.  I hope he used even less temperate language in his discussion with the driver.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on April 27, 2010, 03:49:21 pm
Ahahahahahahaahaahaahaaaahaaaa!  What a quality response!!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 27, 2010, 04:05:41 pm
Well done Clandy  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: spen666 on April 27, 2010, 06:13:04 pm
I am not to sure what the approach is with cars/vans blocking the path.
Maybe a picture needs to be taken and emailed to the council to see how they intend to deal with the problem, and it is a problem imo.

I have done this many times in the past but nothing gets done. The council just say 'it's a parking issue' and the Parking Enforcement say, 'We can't do anything unless we catch them actually doing it…' If it was me I would install a barrier right along the kerb in front of Ocean Beach and the Activities Centre, and paint the cycle lane like a box junction. Perhaps we need somewhere online to post photographs every time the lane is blocked.


What about emailing the companies in the same way people do re unacceptable drivinf?

Similarily also email the papers with the letters and photos


It needs a change of attitude to get this problem solved - a change on the part of motorists
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Speshact on April 27, 2010, 10:23:13 pm
Well done Clandy  :thumbsup:

+1. Top result (assuming the van isn't there tomorrow  ;D!)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Dez on April 28, 2010, 03:45:23 pm
I've just sent the following off to my ward Councillors, the woman who runs the Southend Cycle Forum and the Road Safety department at SBC:

Quote
Dear Councillors,

As my current councillors for Victoria Ward, I'm writing to you regarding the driving of a Southend Borough Council employee.

I was cycling along London Road at around 11:30am this morning, approaching the traffic lights just west of the Palace Theatre:

Google Maps (http://tinyurl.com/36dzeoz)

and was overtaken very closely by a white van with the Southend Borough Council crest on the side and the vehicle registration number NY08 GHZ. The traffic lights (see picture at the link above) were red and it was therefore only a matter of seconds before I caught up with him.

I knocked on his window and said "You overtook too close - far too close." and got only a dismissive shake of the head in response.

Given that Southend is a Cycling Town and is trying to encourage more cyclists onto our roads, I would expect Council employees not only to drive with due care but also to be sufficiently courteous to other road users when challenged about their driving.

There is no reason at all for a driver to overtake a cyclist a matter of a few tens of metres from red traffic lights as they will gain nothing from doing so and they certainly shouldn't be overtaking when there is insufficient room to do so.

I trust that the driver concerned will be reminded of his duty of care to other road users and particularly rule 212 of the Highway Code:

"When passing motorcyclists and cyclists, give them plenty of room (see Rules 162-167). If they look over their shoulder it could mean that they intend to pull out, turn right or change direction. Give them time and space to do so."

Road users requiring extra care (204-225) : Directgov - Travel and transport (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069858)

I am a member of the Council's Cycle Forum and have copied this message to Sara Hadden of the Cycle Southend project and also to the Road Safety Education department via the SBC website.

I look forward to your reply.

Regards,

--
Denis Walker
Co-ordinator, South East Essex Friends of the Earth
http://www.seefoe.org.uk
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on April 29, 2010, 01:16:05 pm
Every morning at around 08:15, the council dust cart drives along the cycle path collecting refuse. If they can't prevent their own vehicles from driving in a cycle lane they've got no hope of stopping other people.
I got a picture this morning, unfortunately it's on my phone and I know not how to get it from the phone to t'interweb. I have no cables. Anyone help?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 29, 2010, 01:20:33 pm
Every morning at around 08:15, the council dust cart drives along the cycle path collecting refuse. If they can't prevent their own vehicles from driving in a cycle lane they've got no hope of stopping other people.
I got a picture this morning, unfortunately it's on my phone and I know not how to get it from the phone to t'interweb. I have no cables. Anyone help?

Can you Bluetooth it to your computer?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on April 29, 2010, 01:29:34 pm
At work, certainly not!

At home, maybe.

What's bluetooth?   ;D
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Andrij on April 29, 2010, 02:09:49 pm

What's bluetooth?   ;D

Blue tooth (http://cache.techie-buzz.com/images/stories/LatestBluetoothTechnologyAvailable_254B/latest_bluetooth_thumb.jpg).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 29, 2010, 07:05:17 pm
Yesterday:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/Casinoparking.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 29, 2010, 07:25:48 pm
Seen the new cycle lane at Shoebury east beach  :hand:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 29, 2010, 07:27:30 pm
Yesterday:

Why couldnt he/she park in the central reservation ?
Looks like there is plenty of spaces  :-\
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on April 30, 2010, 01:50:08 pm
I went for a little spin along the seafront this morning to see how things are going with the new path on Western Esplanade.

The line painting wagon was there and they were repainting the parallel parking bays between adventure island and three shells.

The line next to the hashing is now a double width solid white line rather than the original dashed white line.

Video on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/user/2FlatErics#p/a/u/0/BNc3OUIJdcQ)

Have the council changed the marking because they care about cyclists and want to make it clear to drivers that they should park in the bay and not on the hash markings?

Or could it be that the council has realised they probably couldn't enforce any tickets they issued for parking on the hash marks when there was only a dashed line?

Call me a cynic if you like but I suspect that the changes are led by a potential loss of revenue from parking fines rather than careing for cyclists.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on April 30, 2010, 02:10:17 pm
Also on this mornings ride I took a look under the pier as that is where cyclists are to be directed when heading east.

The barriers have now gone so you can get under the pier again but so far nothing has been done.

Unless they get to work pretty quickly then the path is going to be oficially completed and open and unsuspecting cyclists will be faced with This (http://www.youtube.com/user/2FlatErics#p/a/u/0/yaPUNZvE8_M).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 30, 2010, 02:18:09 pm
What 2FE's video doesn't show is that the solid line on the path is of the slightly raised hump variety, not the ribbed hard shoulder type on motorways, and will be slippery in the wet! You might not have time to wobble off the path before your back wheel is on one side of the line, your front on the other, and you sprawled over/under a car.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on April 30, 2010, 02:42:58 pm
What 2FE's video doesn't show is that the solid line on the path is of the slightly raised hump variety, not the ribbed hard shoulder type on motorways, and will be slippery in the wet! You might not have time to wobble off the path before your back wheel is on one side of the line, your front on the other, and you sprawled over/under a car.

I came along here in the wet last night and the raised line on the path is like ice.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on April 30, 2010, 03:08:31 pm
Seen the new cycle lane at Shoebury east beach  :hand:

Took the chance to get some video of the new and pointless Shoebury East Beach path this morning. Clicky Here (http://www.youtube.com/user/2FlatErics#p/a/u/0/RFIPhzDm1uw)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 30, 2010, 03:16:17 pm
Took the chance to get some video of the new and pointless Shoebury East Beach path this morning. Clicky Here (http://www.youtube.com/user/2FlatErics#p/a/u/0/RFIPhzDm1uw)
I suspect it's possible boat manoeuvring that is the cause of the first off road part of the path. Either that or they wanted symmetry in the google satellite shots.
I'm glad the speed humps have gone too, vicious buggers they were!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: hellymedic on April 30, 2010, 03:21:22 pm
Seen the new cycle lane at Shoebury east beach  :hand:

Took the chance to get some video of the new and pointless Shoebury East Beach path this morning. Clicky Here (http://www.youtube.com/user/2FlatErics#p/a/u/0/RFIPhzDm1uw)

Plenty of pointlessness there.
<pedant> Is there any chance you can advance the timestamp on your camera by three years, three months and six days? It's displaying 24/1/2007 (upside down) at present.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on April 30, 2010, 07:03:00 pm
Took the chance to get some video of the new and pointless Shoebury East Beach path this morning. Clicky Here (http://www.youtube.com/user/2FlatErics#p/a/u/0/RFIPhzDm1uw)
I suspect it's possible boat manoeuvring that is the cause of the first off road part of the path. Either that or they wanted symmetry in the google satellite shots.
I'm glad the speed humps have gone too, vicious buggers they were!

The speed bumps went a couple of months back and they were really vicious little buggers
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 30, 2010, 07:12:33 pm
I rarely cycle along the road on Eastbeach, I much prefer to cycle on the grass. Good to see another cyclist recording the roads etc. in southend. Nice one 2FE!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 30, 2010, 07:18:03 pm
Yeabut it was a good laugh watching the XR3Turbo racing club nearly ripping the exhaust from the car  ;D ;D ;D

Took the chance to get some video of the new and pointless Shoebury East Beach path this morning. Clicky Here (http://www.youtube.com/user/2FlatErics#p/a/u/0/RFIPhzDm1uw)
I suspect it's possible boat manoeuvring that is the cause of the first off road part of the path. Either that or they wanted symmetry in the google satellite shots.
I'm glad the speed humps have gone too, vicious buggers they were!

The speed bumps went a couple of months back and they were really vicious little buggers
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on April 30, 2010, 08:06:31 pm
Seen the new cycle lane at Shoebury east beach  :hand:

Took the chance to get some video of the new and pointless Shoebury East Beach path this morning. Clicky Here (http://www.youtube.com/user/2FlatErics#p/a/u/0/RFIPhzDm1uw)

Plenty of pointlessness there.
<pedant> Is there any chance you can advance the timestamp on your camera by three years, three months and six days? It's displaying 24/1/2007 (upside down) at present.


Correcting the timestamp.... now therein lies a problem. The English version of the instructions on how to do this make no sense at all. I think they simply ran the original Chinese instructions through an automatic translation program. Im going to keep plugging away at it though until I work it out. Having the wrong timestamp bugs me too.

As for the timestamp being upside down.. I had to do a bodge job of mounting the sunglasses camera onto my helmet. (I wear prescription glasses so can't wear the sunglasses cam as normal). Best way to fix them on the helmet securly was upside down. I then flip the video back up the right way once it's on the computer.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on April 30, 2010, 08:37:31 pm
This was at 08:30 yesterday morning....

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3515/4566426852_b1dbb3b68a_o.jpg)

and this was at the same time this morning.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3598/4565797827_d46bec8695_o.jpg)

This morning was quite different though as the van pulled off of the road into the cycle lane, narrowly missing me, then drove down the cycle lane until he pulled up outside Ocean Beach.
I thanked the driver for almost killing me. He said he didn't see me.  ::-) I pointed out that he was parked in a cycle lane which was illegal, he said there was nowhere else to park. I suggested the loading bay outside the Marine Activities Centre and he laughed and said "you expect me to unload 600 bottles and barrow them from there?". I told him that was his, and Ocean Beach's problem. My problem was a truck parked in the cycle lane. I gave up, took the picture and left. Email will be on its way to his employers in due course.    >:(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on April 30, 2010, 08:44:32 pm
Not only is he parked in the cycle lane, he is parked on double yellows. DYs are deemed by the law to extend all the way to the pavement across anything, including cycle lanes, that may be between the DYs and the pavement.
 I drove along the seafront this morning about ten, and saw the Beez Neez van from one of my earlier videos was driving along the cycle lane to Ocean Beach.

Maybe it is time Southend's cyclists mounted a concerted campaign to get a box junction marking painted in the cycle lane outside Ocean beach, as these incidents are happening on a daily basis, and it is obvious the proprietor of Ocean Beach is encouraging delivery drivers to continue this illegal practice.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: David Martin on April 30, 2010, 09:00:25 pm
Not only is he parked in the cycle lane, he is parked on double yellows. DYs are deemed by the law to extend all the way to the pavement across anything, including cycle lanes, that may be between the DYs and the pavement.

Perfectly legal (to stop on double yellows) for loading unless there is a 'no loading' order. If he stopped for a cup of tea (ie parked) then it would be illegal.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_070563.pdf refers.

As in England the cycle path is part of the carriageway then he is not illegal. In Scotland he may well have been depending on status of the vehicle and what he is doing.

..d
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on April 30, 2010, 09:40:59 pm
Not only is he parked in the cycle lane, he is parked on double yellows. DYs are deemed by the law to extend all the way to the pavement across anything, including cycle lanes, that may be between the DYs and the pavement.

Perfectly legal (to stop on double yellows) for loading unless there is a 'no loading' order. If he stopped for a cup of tea (ie parked) then it would be illegal.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_070563.pdf refers.

As in England the cycle path is part of the carriageway then he is not illegal. In Scotland he may well have been depending on status of the vehicle and what he is doing.

..d

I've just read the page David posted and my understanding is a little different.

My understanding from that page is that you can stop for loading on a single yellow line but not on a double yellow. This also seems to be confirmed by Rule 238 (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069860) of the highway code.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: David Martin on April 30, 2010, 11:49:37 pm
Not only is he parked in the cycle lane, he is parked on double yellows. DYs are deemed by the law to extend all the way to the pavement across anything, including cycle lanes, that may be between the DYs and the pavement.

Perfectly legal (to stop on double yellows) for loading unless there is a 'no loading' order. If he stopped for a cup of tea (ie parked) then it would be illegal.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_070563.pdf refers.

As in England the cycle path is part of the carriageway then he is not illegal. In Scotland he may well have been depending on status of the vehicle and what he is doing.

..d

I've just read the page David posted and my understanding is a little different.

My understanding from that page is that you can stop for loading on a single yellow line but not on a double yellow. This also seems to be confirmed by Rule 238 (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069860) of the highway code.

My understanding is that double yellow and single yellow are identical except that single yellow are time limited.

Parking, waiting, stopping to set down or pick up passengers, and loading/unloading are four separate things. Rule 247 applies to loading restrictions.


..d

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on May 01, 2010, 07:57:42 am
Regardless of whether or not loading is or isn't permitted he is causing an obstruction, which IS illegal.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on May 01, 2010, 08:31:17 am
Regardless of whether or not loading is or isn't permitted he is causing an obstruction, which IS illegal.

+1

Tbf to the council truck at least an effort has been made to get to one side of the path. Outside Ocean beach it is never like that  >:(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: tatanab on May 01, 2010, 09:06:04 am
Regardless of whether or not loading is or isn't permitted he is causing an obstruction, which IS illegal.
However - and I have this on best authority from my local plod (ok, a PCSO) when commenting about pavement parking - if you can get past then it is not an obstruction.  They even gave a figure of 1 metre.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on May 01, 2010, 09:53:31 am
Rule 243
DO NOT stop or park

near a school entrance
anywhere you would prevent access for Emergency Services
at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
on the approach to a level crossing/tramway crossing
opposite or within 10 metres (32 feet) of a junction, except in an authorised parking space
near the brow of a hill or hump bridge
opposite a traffic island or (if this would cause an obstruction) another parked vehicle
where you would force other traffic to enter a tram lane
where the kerb has been lowered to help wheelchair users and powered mobility vehicles
in front of an entrance to a property
on a bend
where you would obstruct cyclists’ use of cycle facilities
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on May 02, 2010, 05:08:24 pm
Took this a couple of days ago, I was wondering if this is the first bike this lane has ever seen… it is supposed to be the correct way to join the seafront cycle lane east of the Sealife Centre when traveling east. But from what I have seen, most either ride along the promenade to join the cycle lane, or do as I do which is to do a proper right-turn manoeuvre in the road.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/Tinycyclelane.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: CrinklyLion on May 03, 2010, 09:08:47 am
Actually I have found, cycling round York with small people, that those 'filter off left in order to turn right' lanes can be quite useful.  It depends on what your chances are of safely getting across the main road are, of course, but it does allow less confident cyclists a way of getting over and being able to find a sensible time to do so from a place where they feel safe.  We have one of the way to nursery which lets you filter left onto the shared use path that then leads you to the traffic lights where you go straight ahead (so the same as if you'd gone right at the original junction) and it does make a tricky junction slower but easier with the CrinklyCub in tow.  Although I'm not convinced that the needs/preferences of my 8 year old are a strong enough argument to justify how much some of these facilities probably cost, both financially and in terms of space... and I suspect most parents with kids/not very confident cyclists do as you noticed and just use the pavement.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Tewdric on May 03, 2010, 09:35:07 am
Rule 243
DO NOT stop or park

near a school entrance
anywhere you would prevent access for Emergency Services
at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
on the approach to a level crossing/tramway crossing
opposite or within 10 metres (32 feet) of a junction, except in an authorised parking space
near the brow of a hill or hump bridge
opposite a traffic island or (if this would cause an obstruction) another parked vehicle
where you would force other traffic to enter a tram lane
where the kerb has been lowered to help wheelchair users and powered mobility vehicles
in front of an entrance to a property
on a bend
where you would obstruct cyclists’ use of cycle facilities

That's a DO NOT rather than a MUST NOT, which is advisory -  Highway Code code for "you can really".
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on May 03, 2010, 10:35:51 am
Rule 240 says:
240

You MUST NOT stop or park on

    <snipped>
* a cycle track

Is the cycle farcility a cycle track or is it a cycle path/route/other?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on May 03, 2010, 11:11:06 am
HIGHWAYS ACT 1980

Quote
“cycle track” means a way constituting or comprised in a highway, being a way over which the public have the following, but no other, rights of way, that is to say, a right of way on pedal cycles [F3(other than pedal cycles which are motor vehicles within the meaning of [F4the Road Traffic Act 1988]] with or without a right of way on foot;
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on May 04, 2010, 11:21:45 pm
A glimpse of things to come?

Pedestrian injured on controversial Southsea seafront bike route | road.cc | The website for pedal powered people: Road cycling, commuting, leisure cycling and racing (http://road.cc/content/news/17117-pedestrian-injured-southsea-seafront-bike-path)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on May 05, 2010, 09:19:15 am
Unsurprising.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Redlight on May 09, 2010, 02:22:45 pm
My dad just mentioned on the phone that he'd seen a new clip on Youtube of someone riding the new seafront lane, dodging peds, car doors etc and generally demonstrating how unsafe it is.  But he didn't make a note of the URL.  Any claimants.

PS - he's approaching 70 and hardly a radical activist but said that he won't be using it and woe betide anyone of the uniformed variety that tries to make him  :D
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on May 09, 2010, 02:40:16 pm
I expect it's the Nutty/Clandy video taken when the Echo did their piece on it or it's the original Clandy movie with the wobbly kids and the Robinson Crusoe title theme. The former if your Dad followed the link from the 40+, Southend section, web page.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on May 13, 2010, 12:09:53 pm
Re the parking/loading on the cycle path perhaps this story might help to get the offending vehicles moved on.
Southend Council's new weapon against parking rogues (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8159076.Wardens____rapid_response_parking_enforcement_car/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: matthew on May 13, 2010, 12:19:29 pm
Have you seen the Design Risk Assessment yet? Or have the council lost it in the elections?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on May 16, 2010, 12:26:14 pm
The Prittle Brook Greenway, shared use path, started being built/converted about a fortnight ago. Today I took some update pics, just before the rain started.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/S-_TWuITOUI/AAAAAAAAFdc/i2T_PDpTbBo/s640/p5162435.jpg)
This is looking west from Prittlewell Chase, Clicky (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=&daddr=51.550893,0.700667&hl=en&geocode=&mra=mi&mrsp=0&sz=18&sll=51.550852,0.700486&sspn=0.002305,0.00478&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=18).

Other pics are here, Picasa Web Albums - delthebike - greenway (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/delthebike/Greenway).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on May 17, 2010, 08:59:13 am
Back to the Western Esplanade and the first kerb, separating the cycle lane from motorised traffic. Why use normal, square, kerb stones when stones are available with a 45o angle on one side? See A view from the cycle path - David Hembrow: The danger of parallel kerbs (http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2008/12/danger-of-parallel-kerbs.html) for picture and details.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on May 20, 2010, 12:27:19 pm
From Gruaniad boke blig.
 How super is your local bike lane? | Environment | guardian.co.uk  (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/may/20/super-bike-lane)
rate your bike lane.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on May 21, 2010, 07:30:33 am
Remember this from Mehmet Mazhar's email to me?

"3.      The edge of the cycle lane raised rib line will be moved in a little at this point to ensure that there is an adequate buffer zone between the edge of the cycle track and the edge of the parking area. Our parking enforcement service will be advised that vehicles which park outside the bay will be issued with Parking Charge Notices (PCN), as a deterrent.
4.       Once the scheme is formally opened, the parking regulations will be enforced. The yellow line waiting restrictions apply to the back of footway, therefore any vehicles parking on the cycle track or the promenade may receive a PCN."


From yesterday, a not particularly busy day on the seafront:


      YouTube
            - No parking enforcement in Southend
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bQt69stBHo)

This weekend with its promised 80 degree temperatures should make for some 'interesting' video!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on May 21, 2010, 08:30:43 pm
Watch out for the Zebra crossings. They have unmarked raised areas and until you hit them it's hard to tell they're raised! They're also quite steep.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on May 22, 2010, 03:19:35 pm
Off limits for me now at weekends, unless I am along the seafront early.
Today was a nightmare along there. Peds, pushchairs etc in the cycle lane, whilst the road to my right completely choked with stationary traffic  :(
Something that worked just about before, now xx£'s later does not afaiac.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on May 22, 2010, 03:53:22 pm
How many bikes on the footpath?
I rode the path during the week and I was the only one on it, except a bin lorry outside the casino. Only other bike riders I saw were on the footpath. When you're on your own and there is no one else on the path, especially coming towards you, it's a very good path. Even better going east to west!

I also saw the Cliff Lift having a test run.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/S_Ehr-GeF3I/AAAAAAAAFe8/1LHUtcPPJA8/s640/p5172440.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on May 24, 2010, 11:01:58 am
A possible incident on the bike path yesterday. Comments are worth reading.
Updated: Paramedic injured in seafront smash (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8181037.Updated__Paramedic_injured_in_seafront_smash/)

Edit: From the paper edition of the Echo.

Holiday maker  SS, 43, described seeing a group of around four quad bikes and eight motorbikes go past him and his family while they walked past Adventure Island.
He said: "There was slow moving traffic all along the road. Because of the traffic the quad bike decided to go into the cycle lane.
2They were going from the cycle lane then back into the traffic flow."
Mr. S, from Cheshunt, added none of the riders were wearing helmets and he saw several of them pulling wheelies along the seafront.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on May 24, 2010, 04:32:37 pm
Does anyone know when the next Southend cycle group meeting is?
Has anyone had the minutes of the last meeting yet?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on May 24, 2010, 10:27:14 pm
Next meeting?  Well they promised us it would move from 3 or 4 monthly to 2 monthly - I've heard nothing.  I have a draft mail here chasing up but I'm going to sleep on it before sending.



As for today's echo?  We predicted a casualty before summer was out, I can't believe it happened in less than 2 months.    I feel physically sick.   We specifically said that idiots would use the lane to bypass queues.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on May 25, 2010, 07:59:42 am
In today's paper edition of the Echo:
"...But Southend Council's head of planning and transport, Andrew Meddle, said 'Sunday's accident was not caused by the cycle path.
He said 'The cycle path scheme has been subject to a road safety audit and an inspection by Cycling England.
'This process ensures independent checks on safety are carried before and after the scheme is installed. As is normal when incidents are reported to us, we will look again at the junction to make sure it is as safe as possible.'"

What have Cycling England done for "safety checks" when they passed this path for construction and use?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on May 25, 2010, 12:05:35 pm
Have been told an interesting rumour

A colleague has a friend who is a cabbie.  The cab drivers association (or similar) approached the casino to ask for a couple of parking spaces as they can no longer wait on the carriageway.  The casino allegedly said "no, we pay £200 per year to the council for those, you can't have them". 

The group then approached the council to ask where they could wait.  The council allegedly said "we've made the kerbs low on purpose, just drive over them and wait on the cycle path".


Does anybody know anybody who can substantiate this rumour?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on May 25, 2010, 12:14:43 pm
Does anybody know anybody who can substantiate this rumour?
All the cabbies that stop there and traffic wardens and police who ignore them.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on May 25, 2010, 12:17:50 pm
Quote
The casino allegedly said "no, we pay £200 per year to the council for those, you can't have them

FFS I know it might be a rumour, but how many taxis are there in Southend?
£2 per taxi on their annual licence fee and its paid for.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on May 28, 2010, 12:03:47 pm
Very sad news with the paramedic, he has had both legs amputated. 
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on May 28, 2010, 12:08:20 pm
Very sad news with the paramedic, he has had both legs amputated. 

That is awful. Lets hope the perpetrator is given a suitable punishment and not just a slap on the wrist.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: rower40 on May 28, 2010, 12:29:33 pm
Now I realise that Ghandi was right when he said "'An Eye For An Eye' leaves the whole world blind", but surely a leg for a leg stops the perpetrator doing it again?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on May 28, 2010, 12:47:44 pm
I have sent the following to my local councillor:

Dear Cllr Assenheim,


Following on from my previous emails expressing my serious concerns at the poorly thought out new cycle lane on Western Esplanade, I wonder if you could forward the following to Cllr Waite and Mehmet Mazhar for me?

Given this week's tragic incident on the seafront where an off-duty paramedic was mown down and seriously injured by a quad bike which had mounted the cycle lane, I would be interested to read the reaction of both Cllr Waite and Mr Mazhar, both of whom believe their 'painted lines' are going to prevent cars mounting the cycle lane. If those lines did not stop a quad bike, how on Earth will they stop one and a half tons of car?


Sincerely,
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on May 28, 2010, 01:04:11 pm
OK, so 2 months and one serious accident on from my informal request to see the safety audit for this cycle lane nothing is forthcoming.

How do I now make an official request under the Freedom of Information Act to see this document?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on May 28, 2010, 01:12:07 pm
You just ask and point out that your request is a Treedom Of Information Request. They then have 20 days to reply.

Read more here:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Yourrightsandresponsibilities/DG_4003239?cids=Google_PPC&cre=Government_Citizens_Rights?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on May 28, 2010, 03:33:19 pm
I have received a reply from Mehmet Mazhar:

On 28 May 2010, at 15:16, Mehmet Mazhar wrote:

Dear Mr ,
 
Thank you for your email.
 
We are aware of the serious road traffic accident which occurred on the Western Esplanade on Sunday 23rd May 2010, in the early evening. Following receipt of more detailed information about the events on that evening, it is becoming clear that the accident was not caused by the design and construction of the cycle path along the Western Esplanade. It appears that illegal driver/rider behaviour was a contributory factor involving the quad bike incident.
 
The cycle path scheme has been subject to a road safety audit and has also been subject to an inspection by experts on behalf of Cycling England. This process has ensured that independent checks on safety have been carried out before and after the scheme was installed.
 
Please contact me if you have any further queries regarding this matter.
 
Kind regards,



I have now replied with:

Dear Mr Mazhar,

Thank you for your reply. While I accept the driver of the quad bike was fully responsible for the collision with the paramedic, would the earlier collision, which the paramedic was aiding with, have happened if the road was still a safe width?

Also, in an earlier email dated April 7th, you stated that:

"The kerb, which has an upstand and raised line, would in the first instance deflect and errant drivers back onto the carriageway and in the second instance alert them that they have strayed from their path via the ‘rumble’ effect the raised line would provide."

As these measures completely failed to deflect a small vehicle like a quad bike this clearly is NOT the case.

I would now like to make a request, under the Freedom of Information Act, to see the road safety audit that was done regarding the seafront cycle path and new car parking arrangements from Adventure Island to Chalkwell esplanade along Western Esplanade.

You can mail it to me at:

<address>


Best regards,


Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on May 28, 2010, 03:43:08 pm
That's now an official FoI request, and they have to come up with the goods or face sanctions. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on May 28, 2010, 03:50:25 pm
I just hope others are also asking SBC to see the safety audit under FoI. The more people who make a request the harder it is for the council to prevaricate.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on May 28, 2010, 03:51:23 pm
SBC are serial non-compliers with the FOIA. I requested information relating to me being named in the Claim for Possession dated 18th March. My letter to SBC was dated 23rd March. I have still had no acknowledgement from SBC, but the I have involved the Information Commissioner and have a case number.

I understand that it is possible to force a local authority to carry out an information audit where it persistently flouts the rules, as SBC seems to do.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on May 28, 2010, 05:45:14 pm
Just sent to SBC:-

Quote
As you have not replied to my email of 11th April requesting a copy of the safety audit of the Western Esplanade cycle path, please now treat this as an official request under the Freedom of Information Act. This gives you 20 working days to comply.
Also could you please provide a copy of the report of the safety inspection of this cycle path that was carried out by Cycling England, this also to be treated as a request under the Freedom of Information Act.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on May 28, 2010, 05:51:03 pm
Very sad news with the paramedic, he has had both legs amputated. 

That is awful. Lets hope the perpetrator is given a suitable punishment and not just a slap on the wrist.

I am going to have to take this back, it seems it is not the case at all despite being front page news in the local paper  :(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on May 31, 2010, 11:14:44 am
I've just seen Tim Totten riding a bike!!!   :o :o

Mind you he was on the cycle path and at Thorpe Esplanade, well away from Western Esplanade, so he should be safe.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on June 05, 2010, 08:08:41 pm
Today:


      YouTube
            - Pedestrians.mp4
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF1EpgPC0cY)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: little miss mac on June 05, 2010, 09:52:38 pm
Totally predictable, and presumably it will only get worse as the summer rolls on. I would love to see those risk analyses and road safety audits.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on June 06, 2010, 07:45:30 am
Today:


      YouTube
            - Pedestrians.mp4
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF1EpgPC0cY)

Its the worst bit where the cars are parked alongside the path, Peter Pans going west, although thats not to say people dont just step out at any part  :(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Oaky on June 06, 2010, 11:47:18 pm
Today:


      YouTube
            - Pedestrians.mp4
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF1EpgPC0cY)

(flippant comment) This thread is useless without Airzounds and video of the pedestrians jumping out of their skins.

(serious for a moment) This has to be one of the most ill thought-out schemes to spend public money in Essex that I've seen for a long time.  If there's ever a call for bike-based protest action then If I can make I'll cycle over from Witham to do so.  i do like the suggestion  a long way upthread of cycling it on the "grand opening" day in the opposite direction to the official opening celebration ride in order to point out the inadequate width.  I like even more the idea of attending, but riding on the road rather than the dangerous and inadequate cycle path.

I really hope enough stuff gets trawled out through FOI requests etc. to nail some itiots to the wall over the waste of money.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: gordon taylor on June 07, 2010, 05:57:46 am
This isn't Holland. In the UK there isn't any requirement for pedestrians to keep off a cycle path, as far as I know. Which is one of the many reasons I hate these things. (The paths, not the pedestrians...)

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Gandalf on June 07, 2010, 07:05:45 am
Today:


      YouTube
            - Pedestrians.mp4
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF1EpgPC0cY)

I must commend you on your restraint, if it were me I'm afraid I would have had to reinflate my Airzound.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: alexb on June 07, 2010, 07:54:12 am
Has anyone contacted Sport England for their response?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: gordon taylor on June 07, 2010, 11:05:31 am
Today:


      YouTube
            - Pedestrians.mp4
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF1EpgPC0cY)

I must commend you on your restraint, if it were me I'm afraid I would have had to reinflate my Airzound.

Why? Surely by doing that you just start to act like a BMW driver/white van man honking at cyclists "in the way" on the roads.

As I said before, I don't think there is any requirement for a pedestrian to keep clear of a cycle path. Blasting through with an airzound seems anti-social to me.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: hellymedic on June 07, 2010, 02:26:36 pm
This isn't Holland. In the UK there isn't any requirement for pedestrians to keep off a cycle path, as far as I know. Which is one of the many reasons I hate these things. (The paths, not the pedestrians...)



I'm fairy sure Gordy's correct here. I think this means cyclists lose out with conflict from both motorists and peds.

A cyclist's place is in the wrong/way  ;) :(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on June 07, 2010, 03:11:41 pm
This isn't Holland. In the UK there isn't any requirement for pedestrians to keep off a cycle path, as far as I know. Which is one of the many reasons I hate these things. (The paths, not the pedestrians...)



In Holland pedestrians are allowed to walk on the cycle path the same as they are here. However in the UK we have an attitude of conflict rather than co-opperation, both on the cyclepath and on the road. "This is my space so get out of the way".

I think Clandy handled it pretty well no shouting or air horns, all that should be needed is a polite ping of the bell to make someone aware of your presence.

If we learn one thing and one thing only form Holland it should be to foster a culture of co-opperation between all road/cyclepath/pavement users.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 07, 2010, 03:57:46 pm
They still haven't finished the Greenway path from Vic Ave to Prittlewell Chase, I wonder if they are to paint lines to seperate peds from bikes?
The section from Prit Chase to Gainsborough Drive is well under way and they seem to have finished up to the park entrance.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TA0IHhljgnI/AAAAAAAAFkA/cv4XJ28HcHU/s640/p6072466.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Gandalf on June 07, 2010, 05:13:36 pm
Today:


      YouTube
            - Pedestrians.mp4
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF1EpgPC0cY)

I must commend you on your restraint, if it were me I'm afraid I would have had to reinflate my Airzound.

Why? Surely by doing that you just start to act like a BMW driver/white van man honking at cyclists "in the way" on the roads.

As I said before, I don't think there is any requirement for a pedestrian to keep clear of a cycle path. Blasting through with an airzound seems anti-social to me.

Well that's me told then.  Airzounds are adjustable.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: teethgrinder on June 07, 2010, 08:26:44 pm
Pedestrians are quite legally entitled to wander in the cycle lane, just as they are legally entitled to wander along a road.
If a motorist hits a pedestrian walking in the road, the pedstrian was "asking for it" and it's fair game to use a car horn on pedestrians walking in the road.
But when a pedestrian wanders along a cycle lane, the cyclist becomes the baddie all of a sudden.

It's OK for everyone to be scared of cars and be bullied out of their way, but cyclists have a bloody cheek for using a cycle lane that according to some, was built especially for us.

I stand by what I always say. Cycle paths are nothing more than legalised pavement cycling.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: klaas on June 07, 2010, 09:15:07 pm
If we learn one thing and one thing only form Holland it should be to foster a culture of co-opperation between all road/cyclepath/pavement users.

Eh?! I've cycled in Holland for 20 years (age 5 to 25) and if there is one thing I have never done then (or now) it is being nice to f-ing pedestrians. Where did you come across a 'culture of cooperation'? The sticks? In the big cities, cyclist are the Boss. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Regulator on June 08, 2010, 12:16:52 pm
Pedestrians are quite legally entitled to wander in the cycle lane, just as they are legally entitled to wander along a road.
If a motorist hits a pedestrian walking in the road, the pedstrian was "asking for it" and it's fair game to use a car horn on pedestrians walking in the road.
But when a pedestrian wanders along a cycle lane, the cyclist becomes the baddie all of a sudden.

It's OK for everyone to be scared of cars and be bullied out of their way, but cyclists have a bloody cheek for using a cycle lane that according to some, was built especially for us.

I stand by what I always say. Cycle paths are nothing more than legalised pavement cycling.

Actually, IIRC, cycle lanes are legally for the use of cyclists only, unlike shared use paths.  A bit like cyclists and pedestrians are excluded from motorways, which are for motor vehicles only.

However, I would agree with the general point that we should make allowances for the more vulnerable party (the pedestrians) and seek to foster a positive relationship, where we are not seen as the baddies.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on June 09, 2010, 06:43:22 pm
I have just received my invitation to the nexr Cycle Forum meeting. There is an agenda, but unusually the minutes of the last meeting were not attached.

I detect the aroma of a very large rodent!   :-\
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 09, 2010, 09:27:38 pm
I detect the aroma of a very large rodent!   :-\
Don't tell me! They've imported Capybaras to go along with the palms haven't they!  ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 12, 2010, 11:27:19 am
Had a pootle from the pier to Chalkwell early on. I don't like these,
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TBNgg50u7-I/AAAAAAAAFkc/OWU53eyIJQg/s640/p6122491.jpg)
Why not have give way on the motor traffic lanes? There are also give ways for the zebra crossings but no black/white stripe on the cycle path.

And I wonder how far the green will go?
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TBNghINtgaI/AAAAAAAAFkg/wjFDd7IBjcc/s640/p6122492.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on June 12, 2010, 11:39:41 am
Quote
Had a pootle from the pier to Chalkwell early on. I don't like these,

Yep I dont get this either. 99% of the time there is going to be more motorised traffic than there is cyclists.
Then again, car is king, and we all know that!

In a law situation how does this give way work?
A ped steps out in front you give way, or you see a ped waiting its up to you to give way?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 12, 2010, 11:53:55 am
In a law situation how does this give way work?
A ped steps out in front you give way, or you see a ped waiting its up to you to give way?
A cyclist would have to use his/her psychic sixth sense to determine what the ped is going to do because you can bet the ped won't have a clue!  ::-) 
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on June 12, 2010, 12:00:44 pm
The planners have not really thought through the design of these crossing points at all.

All of the crossing points should be zebra crossings and the crossing should extend the full width of the road and cycle path like the one in Dels second photo at the end by Chalkwell.

If the council does not want to go to the expense of making all the crossings zebra crossings then the give way should extend to the road as well as the cycle path.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on June 12, 2010, 12:42:49 pm
Had a pootle from the pier to Chalkwell early on. I don't like these,
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TBNgg50u7-I/AAAAAAAAFkc/OWU53eyIJQg/s640/p6122491.jpg)
Why not have give way on the motor traffic lanes?

That image demonstrates perfectly my main hate for off road cycle farcilities. Why is it that a vehicle (for that is what I am riding) that is following the major route, has to give way to something joining or crossing the major route?

Motorists would go batshit if they found Give Way/ Stop lines marked at every major route junction >:(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on June 14, 2010, 09:26:49 pm
I went for a pootle along the length of Prittlebrook this morning to get some video of how the brook looks at the moment.

I thought it would be interesting to have a before and after video. (Should really have done the before video a couple of months ago but only thought of it this morning).

Does anyone know how far the council intend to take the greenway? is it all the way to Belfairs woods? Does anyone have a copy of the plans from the council? If I recall correctly from the last cycle forum meeting, the council bods were going to email the plans along with the minutes of the meeting. (I've never received the minutes).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 15, 2010, 08:19:00 am
There was a half page advert for it in an Echo last week. It went something like this;
First phase from Victoria Ave. to Southbourne Grove by 2011. I think it was late spring/early summer for this bit.

If funds are OK then the rest of it to the woods and through them to Rayleigh Road, the A129.
No new lights, it'll be a muggers paradise during darkness. Widening were needed.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on June 15, 2010, 03:43:07 pm
Popped round to Shoebury Asda yesterday to drop a film off for developing. Because I was combining it with my ride I came out the front entrance, which I don't normally do. I noticed these white lines painted on the pavement. Anyone know what they are for?


      YouTube
            - white lines?
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oif4SpjwDk4)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on June 15, 2010, 04:01:53 pm
Popped round to Shoebury Asda yesterday to drop a film off for developing. Because I was combining it with my ride I came out the front entrance, which I don't normally do. I noticed these white lines painted on the pavement. Anyone know what they are for?


      YouTube
            - white lines?
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oif4SpjwDk4)

Obvious init.... it's a new cycle lane... and it looks better than some of Southend councils efforts  ;D
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on June 15, 2010, 05:06:46 pm
Any idea what the council is doing with this ASL?

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5079/dscf0007ug.jpg)

(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6102/dscf0006ax.jpg)

It's on the London road heading west at the junction with Hamlet Court Road.

Originally they painted a long green lead in lane. After it was pointed out that the lead in was in a left hand only lane, and would lead to conflict, they blacked  it out and left just the entry point.

Today they have added the beige paint in the same place that the old lead in lane was.

Any ideas WTF the council is doing?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Regulator on June 15, 2010, 05:08:45 pm
The council have actually used the design that is laid out in the regulations, as far as I can make out.

Here in Cambridge they don't bother with lead in lanes as they're always in the wrong place.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: SlowCoach on June 15, 2010, 05:11:10 pm
Any ideas WTF the council is doing?

Using up their stock of old paint?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on June 15, 2010, 06:28:51 pm
Is that beige paint of that shellgrip stuff?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on June 15, 2010, 06:32:04 pm
Is that beige paint of that shellgrip stuff?

Just beige paint.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 15, 2010, 06:43:57 pm
Upthread, possibly in the original Southend cycle town thread, Nutty pointed out the stupidity of the bike lane in the left turn lane. SBC changed them to the short version soon after.
When they first appeared, the full lenght green bike lane, I thought that traffic was to be reduced to one lane + bike lane.

Edit: it's in the first post of the original thread. Southend Cycle Town (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28729.0)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 15, 2010, 06:51:53 pm
Anyone know what they are for?
It's to separate the motor traffic from the shared bike/ped lane. It's worked so well on the seafront they thought they'd try it in Shoebury.  ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on June 15, 2010, 06:58:11 pm
Afaik heading North to South at the Hamlet Ct Road junction the road has been reduced to one lane plus bike lane.
It would be good if they did the same on the London Rd heading West, tbh there is no need for the left turn lane imo. Once traffic builds up past the bus stop there is no way for cars to get to the junction anyway.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 15, 2010, 07:12:03 pm
I'd like to see affirmative signs that cycling is encouraged and welcomed in SoS and that cyclists should be treated with respect and given room all over town and at the boundaries. Adverts in the local papers and on billboards. So much cheaper than poor lanes.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on June 15, 2010, 08:29:02 pm
I'd like to see a LOT more proper cycle parking facilities throughout the town.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on June 15, 2010, 10:03:18 pm
Popped round to Shoebury Asda yesterday to drop a film off for developing. Because I was combining it with my ride I came out the front entrance, which I don't normally do. I noticed these white lines painted on the pavement. Anyone know what they are for?


      YouTube
            - white lines?
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oif4SpjwDk4)

White Lines (Don't Do It) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXuv7m-5_gw&feature=related)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on June 16, 2010, 11:19:18 am
Sunday is the day!

New cycle track kicks off Bike Week in Southend (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8220504.New_cycle_track_kicks_off_Bike_Week_in_Southend/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Gandalf on June 16, 2010, 12:23:37 pm
I see the comments section is warming up nicely  :)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 16, 2010, 10:19:46 pm
Sunday is the day!

New cycle track kicks off Bike Week in Southend (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8220504.New_cycle_track_kicks_off_Bike_Week_in_Southend/)

Has anybody got times for this?   I think we should all cycle along the seafront path at the same time so that we can support the Council and demonstrate how great this path is for mass cycle numbers.

Do you know if the opening is east-west or west-east?  I want to make sure that any supporting action is correspondingly west-east or east-west.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 16, 2010, 10:21:42 pm
Any idea what the council is doing with this ASL?
....
Any ideas WTF the council is doing?

That's the third time it's been re=painted. 

I've only seen the last two since I've now found cycling in Southend to be too dangerous and hung up my bike,  I've been the motorcyclist blasting down the A127 for the last 2 months  :(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 16, 2010, 10:25:54 pm
...

And I wonder how far the green will go?
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TBNghINtgaI/AAAAAAAAFkg/wjFDd7IBjcc/s640/p6122492.jpg)

I cycled (for the first time in ages) to work on monday.   I couldn't believe it on the way home when I got here.

I'd already pooed my pants several time along the seafront when traffic buzzed me too closely (I wasn't in the cycle path as it was blocked in several places and once out of it you can't get back in).  When I got here I couldn't believe the conflict introduced.

I've cycled this junction almost daily for the last ten years.  Once a fortnight there is conflict with traffic trying to merge with the cyclists in the cycle lane and also go round this bend.  Now that they've painted the lanes like this it is much much worse.

Southend.  The Anti-Cycle Town funded by Cycling England  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 17, 2010, 11:25:19 am
Sunday is the day!

New cycle track kicks off Bike Week in Southend (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8220504.New_cycle_track_kicks_off_Bike_Week_in_Southend/)

Found on the Southend Council's website -> Track changes! Bumper Bike Week beckons ::  News :: Southend-on-Sea Borough Council (http://www.southend.gov.uk/news/default.asp?id=3225)

Quote
...
The Worshipful the Mayor of Southend, Councillor Ann Holland will formally cut the ribbon at 11am on Sunday 20th June to launch the track at Chalkwell Esplanade.
...
The second event is a charity sponsored cycle ride - the Junior Bikeathon from 9am till 11.30am on Sunday 20th June starting from Grosvenor Road to the end of Chalkwell Esplanade at Chalkwell Station. Youngsters up to 12 years old are invited to enter this ride, being run by the charity Leukaemia and Lymphoma Research in partnership with Southend-on-Sea Borough Council and Cycle Southend. The Junior Bikeathon course is one mile long, but participants can cycle as many laps as they wish to between 9am and 11.30am.
...

I think I might be cycling in the area.    Anybody else fancy riding the "new safe track" at 11am immediately after it is officially opened?

Last time I tried visiting the seafront when the Bikeathon was on, it was on Eastern Esplanade and they'd closed the road to use that instead of the cycle path  :facepalm:    I'll be intrigued to see if they are using any of the new cycle track (although it looks as though the ride will be mostly on the quiet cul-de-sac of Chalkwell Esplanade instead ???)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on June 17, 2010, 11:35:38 am
Quote
Now that they've painted the lanes like this it is much much worse.

Is there a drop kerb next to the green paint or is the green surface level with the road surface?
To me looking at that from a motorist pov that looks like two lanes of traffic going into one at the corner, if I was overtaking at that point, which I wouldnt near a ped crossing  >:(, then its the overtaking vehical that has to give way, or am I wrong?
It is fucking dangerous though, not just this bit but the whole thing, but thats been said thousands of times already.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: montysboy on June 17, 2010, 11:36:12 am
...

And I wonder how far the green will go?
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TBNghINtgaI/AAAAAAAAFkg/wjFDd7IBjcc/s640/p6122492.jpg)

I cycled (for the first time in ages) to work on monday.   I couldn't believe it on the way home when I got here.

I'd already pooed my pants several time along the seafront when traffic buzzed me too closely (I wasn't in the cycle path as it was blocked in several places and once out of it you can't get back in).  When I got here I couldn't believe the conflict introduced.

I've cycled this junction almost daily for the last ten years.  Once a fortnight there is conflict with traffic trying to merge with the cyclists in the cycle lane and also go round this bend.  Now that they've painted the lanes like this it is much much worse.

Southend.  The Anti-Cycle Town funded by Cycling England  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Hi all,

Its even more fun coming onto the cycle lane the other direction down from Chalkwell Avenue - the only safe way onto the cycle lane is to use the zebra crossing!

As much as I quite like the new section of cycle lane - I do wonder at the thinking behind it some how... at the eastern end of the new section when travelling east it just ends dumping you into the oncoming traffic.  There is a small right turn arrow painted on the ground, but this just takes you up onto the pavement  >:(


Iain
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 17, 2010, 12:27:30 pm
...
Hi all,

Its even more fun coming onto the cycle lane the other direction down from Chalkwell Avenue - the only safe way onto the cycle lane is to use the zebra crossing!

As much as I quite like the new section of cycle lane - I do wonder at the thinking behind it some how... at the eastern end of the new section when travelling east it just ends dumping you into the oncoming traffic.  There is a small right turn arrow painted on the ground, but this just takes you up onto the pavement  >:(


Iain


Hi Iain, good point!  I hadn't thought about getting into the lane from the other direction as I've only seen this once on the ground (it was missing from the plans the Council gave us to say what they'd built - which only covered the Three Shells to the Arches); plus I've only every cycled home along the seafront instead of commuting in to work that way.

Re the right turn arrow, they've told us that their final plan will be to lower the ground level under the pier (where it currently floods) and the path will become shared use from the Three Shells, under the pier, through the City Beach scheme, and ultimately connect with the narrow cycle path gully along Eastern Esplanade.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 17, 2010, 12:43:02 pm
Popped round to Shoebury Asda yesterday to drop a film off for developing. Because I was combining it with my ride I came out the front entrance, which I don't normally do. I noticed these white lines painted on the pavement. Anyone know what they are for?


      YouTube
            - white lines?
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oif4SpjwDk4)

At 00:15 you can see a shared use sign on a lamp post.

I would suspect that this is actually a sensible line, preventing users of the shared use path from getting too close to the carriageway or cycling into the lamp columns.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 17, 2010, 12:45:21 pm
I have just received my invitation to the nexr Cycle Forum meeting. There is an agenda, but unusually the minutes of the last meeting were not attached.

I detect the aroma of a very large rodent!   :-\

I've just chased for the minutes.  I have been told that they were sent out on 1st April.    If nobody else received them then maybe this was an April Fools?   


I now have a copy, and I'd suggest that anybody who hasn't received minutes on 1st April should email Sara and ask for them.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: montysboy on June 17, 2010, 01:10:19 pm

Re the right turn arrow, they've told us that their final plan will be to lower the ground level under the pier (where it currently floods) and the path will become shared use from the Three Shells, under the pier, through the City Beach scheme, and ultimately connect with the narrow cycle path gully along Eastern Esplanade.


Do you know if there is a time scale for this "connecting link"? Will it be complete by March 2011 as the boards along the sea front suggest the roadworks along that section will be finished by?


Iain
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 17, 2010, 03:00:28 pm
I am not aware of any schedule.

We were told about the western esplanade scheme from the Three Shells to Shorefield Drive at the end of March after it was already constructed.  The plans for this clearly showed it linking to the existing road based cycle lanes on either side of the road leading back to Chalkwell Shelter.

I have not seen any plans for this second phase which has removed these cycle lanes. 

I have not seen the detailed plans for the City Beach, which we have been told will become a shared use pavement.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: montysboy on June 17, 2010, 03:10:50 pm
I am not aware of any schedule.

We were told about the western esplanade scheme from the Three Shells to Shorefield Drive at the end of March after it was already constructed.  The plans for this clearly showed it linking to the existing road based cycle lanes on either side of the road leading back to Chalkwell Shelter.

I have not seen any plans for this second phase which has removed these cycle lanes. 

I have not seen the detailed plans for the City Beach, which we have been told will become a shared use pavement.

Thanks for the info. 

I suppose we just have to wait until the rest of the cycle facilities just 'appear'  ;D


Iain
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 17, 2010, 03:20:47 pm
Thanks for the info. 

I suppose we just have to wait until the rest of the cycle facilities just 'appear'  ;D


Iain


Less of the smiles :(

If the plans were brought to the cycle group meetings, and if the meetings were every 2 months as they're supposed to be, then we could raise issues with the engineers at that point rather than having to keep complaining to the Council about something they've cocked up.

It makes me angry that the schemes are "just implemented" on the say so of the qualified engineers, rather than taking input from experienced cyclists as minuted on the Council Minutes.

After all, The Formula One season now have an ex-racing driver on the stewards panel at every race, and fans are saying that the decisions are now better because the stewards are getting valuable insight and assistance.   The same should be happening in this cycle town, the engineers should be taking on board comment from the experienced end users who can see what the results will be.

Note:  I'm not saying that the cycle group should be designing any scheme, because that's the engineer's job.  We should however be able to provide comment on the designs at a couple of points during the design process (as per the flowchart they showed us at the last meeting).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: montysboy on June 17, 2010, 03:38:24 pm

Less of the smiles :(

Sorry I was just trying to be facetious... have an angry instead... >:(

Totally agree with the involvement of cyclists when the planners/engineers are dreaming up these schemes.


Iain
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on June 18, 2010, 07:58:01 am
… and again:

Mayor gets in gear to open cycle track (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8225056.Mayor_gets_in_gear_to_open_cycle_track/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Riggers on June 18, 2010, 09:19:19 am
Nutty, I've been storing these up for a while, and so thank goodness I can now put them to use! Have these:  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 18, 2010, 10:57:45 am
Nutty, I've been storing these up for a while, and so thank goodness I can now put them to use! Have these:  <BANK>

ta.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on June 19, 2010, 03:40:57 pm
Oh good grief! Take a look at the comments after this story:

Get on your bike for Macmillan and ride around Foulness Island (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8225042.Get_on_your_bike_for_Macmillan_and_ride_around_Foulness_Island/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on June 19, 2010, 05:21:53 pm
Oh good grief! Take a look at the comments after this story:

Get on your bike for Macmillan and ride around Foulness Island (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8225042.Get_on_your_bike_for_Macmillan_and_ride_around_Foulness_Island/)

I can hardly understand a word that the protagonist is saying. I imagine that he has trouble typing because his knuckles are so sore from dragging them along the ground all the time.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on June 21, 2010, 10:56:14 am
Did anyone go to the grand opening?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on June 21, 2010, 11:10:32 am
I intended to but came down with a dose of man-flu!   :-[
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Riggers on June 21, 2010, 11:46:48 am
Oh good grief! Take a look at the comments after this story:

Get on your bike for Macmillan and ride around Foulness Island (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8225042.Get_on_your_bike_for_Macmillan_and_ride_around_Foulness_Island/)


I think the response to 'Baker Boy's comments are superb.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on June 21, 2010, 11:57:47 am
Quote from: branededbakersboy
one person on there own is ok you can just zoom zoom around them. this event just wrong though. they let ppl on bike and by looking at them really cant ride them. they go about 6 wide in the road making it impossble for wakering to live.

last year my sister went in to labour on this day and we were driving her to the hospital and ppl would not move out of the way.

when people do not understand life and death matter in a car.

have an even to ride a bike to it in a park or not making touble for people that have to live there it is the worse worse event to the motor bike day which is also shocking!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amazing to think that such a person can be driving a car.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: montysboy on June 21, 2010, 12:04:34 pm
Quote from: branededbakersboy
one person on there own is ok you can just zoom zoom around them.

Amazing to think that such a person can be driving a car.

I think he must drive a Mazda


   Mazda - Zoom-Zoom Life - Zoom In
 (http://www.mazda.co.uk/mazdalife/latest/)

 ;)


Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 22, 2010, 02:05:00 pm
The seafront path was opened and half the road was closed so that the kids could ride their mile. A picture in the Echo shows that the beach side of the road was closed and the text suggests it was closed from Grosvenor Rd. to Chalkwell Station. Included usual quotes from parents about how safe it was blah blah use it again blah blah.

The Greenway is open!  :thumbsup: But only the bit that runs along Gainsborough Park.  :hand:
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TCCy1Vo59yI/AAAAAAAAFnk/wnqT_vtLBe8/s640/p6222496.jpg)
The park entrance.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TCCy2sOjVlI/AAAAAAAAFns/1TCfLhhIiZU/s640/p6222498.jpg)
The ramp end is quite steep but it looks like it still needs finishing.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TCCy3TtNevI/AAAAAAAAFnw/Mz_0x0i-nsA/s640/p6222499.jpg)
From Prittlewell Chase.
And the section from Victoria Avenue is still closed despite being as complete as the Gainsborough section?
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TCCzUHV_LCI/AAAAAAAAFn8/uR-nANecMCo/s640/p6222500.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 23, 2010, 11:42:14 am
Did anyone go to the grand opening?

Oh my goodness me but what a bad day that was.  :hand:


Since the Cycle Group is supposed to be supporting the council I thought I'd go to the Grand Opening on the Windcheetah as it's a fun bike and always gets good reaction from passers by.  I haven't ridden it since Christmas, in fact I've hardly ridden at all in the last couple of months.  I had forgotten what fun it is, and just how fast it is straight down the A13 when there's little traffic. 

I ended up down at Royal Artillery way where I admired the new cycle path that has now been upgraded from 2m wide to at least 3m wide, with good flush run off either side onto the grass verges.  I also said hello to Poppy, a young Staffs Terrier who wanted to play and give me lots of snogs, and had a pleasant chat with the owner.

Then it was down Maplin Way to the old Cycle Path.  Accessing this was fine as there is a dropped kerb with give way markings at all side roads on the original path.  I turned right and blasted west.

The Windcheetah is no wider than a normal bicycle, but looks as though it is thanks to the two front wheels.  The recumbent riding position also accentuates the size of the bike.  Oncoming cyclists though had a worried look on their faces as they tried to negotiate the half of the lane they needed to use between myself and the kerb.

I stopped at the end of the path, opposite Esplanade House, for some minor fettling.  No blood was shed.

It was now around 10:30 so I continued west, in the road, and joined the new Western Esplanade path at its start by the Three Shells.  I had to slow past the parked cars as pedestrians got out of them and crossed the path to the pavement ahead of me. 

Oncoming cyclists also had a look of fear and were riding so close to the kerb in order to pass me that they risked falling into the road.  Since they were riding on the kerb this meant that their left side was overhanging the road and at risk of being hit by oncoming traffic. 

I did consider whether the windcheetah was a suitable bike for riding on this new cycle path, but then remembered that LTN2/08 states that the path should be 3m wide as a minimum and that if it's not some riders might struggle to use it.  I also remembered that I've seen an increase in parents with trailers taking their children to school.  I'm no wider than those trailers.


Then I got to Crowstone Avenue, where the Council had closed the Esplanade  :facepalm:

As I went past the gazeebo and organisers I heard my name called and it was one of the Council staff I've got on well with in the past.  I pulled a U-turn to go and chat to her.  She was standing talking to Anna Waite.

"Morning xxxx" I said, "what's going on here?  Why have you closed the seafront?"
"We're holding the kid's bikeathon so have closed the road for safety"
"But you've got this lovely new cycle path that you're assuring us is safe.  Why aren't you using that?"

At this point Anna Waite's face froze into an expressionless look at me, before she turned her back and walked away.


After a lengthy conversation I rode east along the cycle path.  At one point an oncoming cyclist glanced down at his front hub, and in a moment of lack of concentration meandered into the centre of the cycle path.  I braked hard and put my left wheel on the kerb (any further and I'd have been in the road, I was already straddling that white line).  He was still on a collision course with my right hand wheel.  I yelled "OI", he looked up, swore, apologised and jinked hard left to avoid me.

That is exactly the kind of potential for collision which we all pointed out at the Cycle Group meeting when these wonder plans were revealed to us.


I also noted that had I entered the seafront via Shorefield Road, or any other side turning, there is no dropped kerb to allow me to get onto the cycle path  :facepalm:  (See above comment re Maplin Way).

I noted that many of the cyclists I saw on the path I saw several times.  It looked as though people were just cycling back and forth along the seafront. 

My final observation was relating to those stupid zebra crossing poles they have put in the cycle path.  I saw how difficult it was to pass cyclists at these points.   



Then it was time for the official opening.  The mayor arrived in a car, got out, spoke to the Council Staff, cut the ribbon and got back in the car with Anna Waite and left.  I watched from a distance.  It looks from the photograph as though they managed to find a small child with bicycle while I was cycling around the block so there is at least a single bike present at the "Grand Opening".

<sigh>

That might be the last time I cycle the seafront.  It was not pleasant.  There was too great a risk of collision.  I've not cycled since Sunday and the Windcheetah might hit the For Sale section soon.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 23, 2010, 11:45:22 am
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TCCy3TtNevI/AAAAAAAAFnw/Mz_0x0i-nsA/s640/p6222499.jpg)

Am I seeing this right?

There is a dropped kerb from the greenway into the car parking bays?

If riding in the direction pictured, I'd cross the road to the left hand dropped kerb, and then pull a hard right turn followed by a hard left turn into the greenway.  Can I get a tandem around that tight bend?  Can I get a bike towing a trailer around that tight bend without a wheel dropping off the kerb into the parking bay?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Regulator on June 23, 2010, 11:48:38 am
Did anyone go to the grand opening?

...

I stopped at the end of the path, opposite Esplanade House, for some minor fettling.  No blood was shed.

....

Now we know you imagined the whole thing....  ;D
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on June 23, 2010, 11:49:41 am
Did anyone go to the grand opening?

...

I stopped at the end of the path, opposite Esplanade House, for some minor fettling.  No blood was shed.

....

Now we know you imagined the whole thing....  ;D

I thought fettling minors was a criminal offence.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 23, 2010, 11:53:59 am
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TCCy3TtNevI/AAAAAAAAFnw/Mz_0x0i-nsA/s640/p6222499.jpg)
Am I seeing this right?
There is a dropped kerb from the greenway into the car parking bays?
More to do with the access of vehicles for the maintenance of the hedges and path (and the unsuspecting idiot who rides into the brook, about four feet of down there). I expect the parking bay will be burnt off, but then who parks in front of driveways?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 23, 2010, 12:17:57 pm
Cheers Del, that makes sense.

But what about the other issue?  Will a tandem/etc get around those apparently tight bends?  (Maybe I'll take the motorbike home that way from work and take a look).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 23, 2010, 12:22:04 pm
Cheers Del, that makes sense.

But what about the other issue?  Will a tandem/etc get around those apparently tight bends?  (Maybe I'll take the motorbike home that way from work and take a look).
It's a deceptive picture. From fence to dropped kerb I reckon it's about six feet. I you think it's a problem you could always turn right from the central reservation, were the picture was taken from, onto Prittlewell Chase and then take the immediate left onto the path.
It's not far from here, I'll go out with the tape measure if you like.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 23, 2010, 12:32:42 pm
No need, but thank s for the offer.  I might need to pop home in a second in me lunch break, and it's no detour to go that way.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on June 23, 2010, 12:44:38 pm
The story on the Echo website today:

Southend's new cycle track brings families together (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8233310.New_cycle_track_brings_families_together/)

Regarding the Chalkwell end of Death Alley, I nearly got wiped out by a BSM pupil on Sunday. I had just come off the green tarmac before the pedestrian crossing, was turning to go up towards Chalkwell Park and the BSM car just carried straight on into Chalkwell Esplanade! Drivers give zero consideration to cyclists at this point if they are on or exiting the cycle path. Maybe we don't register because we're not on the road?

I caught up with the instructor and pointed out he had nearly wiped me out, his reply? 'It was safe because I could see you the whole time…' Guess that makes it ok to just run cyclists off the road if you can see them then!  ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on June 23, 2010, 02:05:53 pm
You can report offending driving instructors directly to the DSA.

complaints (http://www.dsa.gov.uk/Category.asp?cat=664)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 24, 2010, 12:34:21 am
I was in France earlier this month with the Family.  I now have the photographs off of their camera.  Here they are with comment.   Would these have been better ideas for Western Esplanade?




Here's a lane similar to Southend's.  There is little need for this to be two way since it's on a one way street and cyclists actually have problems continuing their route at either end where they have to cross this traffic lane if riding with the flow of traffic.  The key point to note is that the lane is flush with the carriageway and only defined with paint.  This makes it safe to enter and leave.  Southend's low kerb does not prevent vehicles entering the cycle path but does prevent cyclists from doing so.
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/Img102179JPEGof.jpg)


Here's a lane similar to Southend's in that it is two way between the road and pavement.  Please note that it is wider, so useable.  Please also note that the kerb is chamfered so that if a cyclist rides into it they will rise onto the pavement instead of being unseated and falling off the bike.  Most importantly please note the concrete barrier preventing vehicles entering the lane.
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/Img102312JPEGof.jpg)

Here's a much more aesthetic approach to the barrier.  The road and cycle path are safely separated, as is the pavement.  Also note how the zebra crossing extends across the cycle path; cyclists still have to give way to the pedestrians, but without the hazard of give way markings and belisha beacons.
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/Img102374JPEGof.jpg)

Outside of town this path was found.  Note how easy it is to use by a large number of cyclists, and how the lead cyclists are weaving in their enthusiasm to wave at the camera.  This is not possible on Western Esplanade.  
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/Img102344JPEGof.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on June 24, 2010, 07:35:09 am

Here's a much more aesthetic approach to the barrier.  The road and cycle path are safely separated, as is the pavement.  Also note how the zebra crossing extends across the cycle path; cyclists still have to give way to the pedestrians, but without the hazard of give way markings and belisha beacons.
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/Img102374JPEGof.jpg)


This would have been perfect on Western Esplanade.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on June 24, 2010, 08:34:11 am

Here's a much more aesthetic approach to the barrier.  The road and cycle path are safely separated, as is the pavement.  Also note how the zebra crossing extends across the cycle path; cyclists still have to give way to the pedestrians, but without the hazard of give way markings and belisha beacons.
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/Img102374JPEGof.jpg)


This would have been perfect on Western Esplanade.
That was exactly how the Western Esplanade scheme looked on the plans I (thought I) saw at a Cycle Group meeting about 18 months ago.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: montysboy on June 24, 2010, 09:07:26 am
This could all become a moot point soon anyway, as if the numptys who are fixing the sea wall/groynes continue to use it as their private tractor driveway from their compound at Chalkwell along the seafront, the entire path will soon become unusable.  The smooth surface is gradually getting more "corrugated" each day and with the recent warm weather softening the tarmac it is only expediting the problem....  >:(  >:(  >:(

Call me picky but its hard to believe the path was only "officially" opened on Sunday if you look at the state of it already....


Iain


Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 24, 2010, 09:58:41 am
...
That was exactly how the Western Esplanade scheme looked on the plans I (thought I) saw at a Cycle Group meeting about 18 months ago.


We've chatted about this a few times, and I'm puzzled.  I do not doubt you at all, but I believe I've attended all Cycle Group meetings and have not seen any plans.

The only reference we've had to Western Esplanade, as I recall and as minuted, was the route inspection back at the end of 2008 (November?) and then the subsequent report that a route inspection had taken place and three schemes had been put forward for design.  At that point though pen had not been put to paper so no designs existed... and the scheme that has been implemented is NOT any of the three options we put forward at the route inspection.


Can anybody else here shed any light on this?   Other than the plans we were provided in March 2010, has anybody seen any presentation or design for Western Esplanade?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on June 25, 2010, 11:20:15 am
Quote
At this point Anna Waite's face froze into an expressionless look at me, before she turned her back and walked away.

What the hell, you mean she didn't get her chain-saw out and cut your legs off  :o  :o  ;)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on June 25, 2010, 04:20:14 pm
I also noted that had I entered the seafront via Shorefield Road, or any other side turning, there is no dropped kerb to allow me to get onto the cycle path  :facepalm:  (See above comment re Maplin Way).

Domestique noticed this and commented on it to me a couple of months ago. I was going to ask at the next Cycle Forum meeting how they expected cyclists to get on and off of their new showpiece cycle disaster.

I noted that many of the cyclists I saw on the path I saw several times.  It looked as though people were just cycling back and forth along the seafront.  

Probably because they can't find a safe way to get off of the path once they have miraculously found their way onto it.



Actually, come to think of it this is a brilliant piece of design by the council. If the odd cyclist finds their way on at one end or the other, but no one can find a safe way off again. Eventually every cyclist in Southend will be trapped on the path for ever and the council can boast that they have reached the critical mass of cyclists they were planning for.

Sheer genius  ;D
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on June 25, 2010, 09:56:42 pm
I have received copies of the safety audit and cycling england inpection report for Western Esplanade if anyone would like to see them.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 25, 2010, 10:37:07 pm
The Prittlebrook Greenway is open from Vic. Ave to Gainsbourough, although there are still fences that could be dragged across the Vic. Ave - Prit. Ch. section. It's lumpy to ride over and I think it will have a coloured, probably green, top coat to smooth things out.

The section from Gainsborough Drv. to St. Georges Ave/Rd. is underway now. The original path has been widened to three metres.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TCUfv3yXBbI/AAAAAAAAFqY/rikQ8tteYqM/s640/p6252538.jpg)

I didn't measure it the workers left a subtle hint as to width.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TCUfxYhVGPI/AAAAAAAAFqg/kHzu_9d37q8/s640/p6252541.jpg)

From St. Georges to Gainsborough.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TCUfwxAVBsI/AAAAAAAAFqc/jGHaEvXSyVw/s640/p6252540.jpg)

How the path looks now (try to ignore wacky camera trickery).
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TCUfyH_sepI/AAAAAAAAFqo/tM63McvhMoY/s640/p6252544.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on June 25, 2010, 10:41:22 pm
I prefer the original path. Why didn't they just remove the cycling prohibited signs and let those that wanted to cycle along the brook do so while thos that didn't would be able to use the road with less abuse from motons!  It would have been cheaper!!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 25, 2010, 10:50:10 pm
It would have been cheaper!!
They wanted the £3.2 million from cycling England to kill palms on the seafront and chop down other trees in the borough.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on June 25, 2010, 10:58:32 pm
A few highlights from today:


      YouTube
            - Obstacle course.
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6bGWrmxLuk)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on June 25, 2010, 11:02:04 pm
 ;D @ 0:26.

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on June 25, 2010, 11:56:12 pm
Quote
From St. Georges to Gainsborough

Whatever it is, lamp post or telegraph pole, it looks good stuck a third of the way into the lane ::-)

Quote
A few highlights from today:

I noticed yesterday that the new road section outside the amusements was open to road traffic heading east. From first impression that really doesnt look wide enough.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: teethgrinder on June 26, 2010, 10:35:50 am
I prefer the original path. Why didn't they just remove the cycling prohibited signs and let those that wanted to cycle along the brook do so while thos that didn't would be able to use the road with less abuse from motons!   It would have been cheaper!!

Maybe you guys should change your campaign strategy. Instead of stopping the council building rubbish cycle farce-ilities. Perhaps you should approach the police and ask them to police the roads because of dangerous and abusive drivers. It'd better for all road users because it's not justs cylist that get abuse.

That way, if the roads are as good to cycle on as they should be, then the council won't have any reason to waste your money.

It would have been cheaper!!
They wanted the £3.2 million from cycling England to kill palms on the seafront and chop down other trees in the borough.

That sounds very likely to me. I wouldn't be surprised if there are back handers flying left, right and centre in a corrupt council creating lucrative jobs for the boys. They seem to be trying all the tricks to fob off anyone who shows them up.


I'd be up for a mass cycle ride along that road next weekend. Just to kick up a fuss and maybe get in the local rag. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Gandalf on June 26, 2010, 10:39:48 am
Quote
From St. Georges to Gainsborough

Whatever it is, lamp post or telegraph pole, it looks good stuck a third of the way into the lane ::-)
Quote



Definitely a telephone pole with an underground feed.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on June 26, 2010, 10:53:55 am
Has anyone else noticed the assault course exit from East Beach into Blackgate Road? If you cycle through the gap for pedestrians and cyclists just six feet in front of you is this:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/EastBeachgateHazard.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: teethgrinder on June 26, 2010, 11:04:03 am
I reckon that'd be tight with panniers. Even worse on a tandem with panniers but not especially bad for a cycle route. Sustrans can cook up some crazy puzzles.
The local free riders will be glad for the balance beam to cycle along and practice their tricks though. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on June 26, 2010, 11:04:53 am
Bet that'd be fun at twilight... :-\
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on June 26, 2010, 11:07:07 am
The gap isn't too bad, it's the stupid 18 inch high black painted steel rail 6 feet the other side of it.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on June 26, 2010, 11:31:50 am
To the left is a gate which opens and it's possible to wheel a tandem through easily. PITA but no worse than many a Sustrans feature. When they built it there was a second fence which meant that it was impossible to get a horse through (on OS, that route is described as "Byway open to all traffic@) and horsey types take their steeds for a flounder in the water at high tide. Within a couple of days someone had been at it with a saw.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on June 26, 2010, 05:19:10 pm
Bet that'd be fun at twilight... :-\
There's a lot of fun to be had there at twilight. And after, if you know what I mean. Allegedly!!   :demon:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on June 28, 2010, 06:37:48 pm
Our cycle cops have proved their worth (?). Shame they're not as hot on people parking in cycle lanes.

Police cycle team catch suspected burglar (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8242924.Police_cycle_team_catch_suspected_burglar/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 29, 2010, 12:29:21 am
I'm not going to post much tonight about the meeting.  I did notice the new political approach, the person who might be on sales commission, and the way they're planning on taking the project forwards.   We'll wait and see what happens though.




Interestingly though, chatting to the various council staff, it would appear that I personally am the only person with issues regarding the  Western Esplanade scheme; everybody else in the world loves it.

I will go through my archives, but to make sure I don't miss anything would you mind posting (or PMing me)  links to sites other than this one where members of the public have raised concerns.  If you've got newspaper clippings or other published articles expressing concern then please PM me to let me know what and then if I haven't already got them then either scan them to my email address (acf at my website below) or let me know your address and I'll collect.

Annoyingly it would appear that my name is tarnished as the AUTHOR of clandy's youtube video.  They don't seem to believe that that "stage managed video" was filmed by a concerned member of the public, but was instead my personal attempt to "create significant adverse feeling amongst the public".
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on June 29, 2010, 07:31:18 am
They know damn well you are not the author of that video. I emailed a link to it to Cllr Waite and Cllr Assenheim when I first made it. (on April 8th)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 29, 2010, 08:27:35 am
I will go through my archives, but to make sure I don't miss anything would you mind posting (or PMing me)  links to sites other than this one where members of the public have raised concerns.
Isn't there a thread on CTC Forum and CycleChat about this path?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on June 29, 2010, 08:29:33 am
This is one occasion when the "Comments" section of the Echo might prove useful, if the comments are still there. ISTR that the cycle path was almost universally condemned.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on June 29, 2010, 08:33:45 am
I will go through my archives, but to make sure I don't miss anything would you mind posting (or PMing me)  links to sites other than this one where members of the public have raised concerns.
Isn't there a thread on CTC Forum and CycleChat about this path?

Yes, here:

CTC Forum &bull; Information (http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35608&hilit=southend)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Riggers on June 29, 2010, 08:34:48 am
Our cycle cops have proved their worth (?). Shame they're not as hot on people parking in cycle lanes.

Police cycle team catch suspected burglar (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8242924.Police_cycle_team_catch_suspected_burglar/)


1st Constable: "Right sonny, you're … (<puff> 'cor strewth), … you're under <wheeze>

2nd Constable: "A rest Steve, 'ave a rest"

1st Constable: "Oim tryin' to <pant> … make a bleedin' arrest!"
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 29, 2010, 08:36:19 am
This is one occasion when the "Comments" section of the Echo might prove useful, if the comments are still there. ISTR that the cycle path was almost universally condemned.
I've only found the echo piece which has nutty in the picture and a car door opening onto the lane, 86 comments on that article. Clicky (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8091356.Southend_seafront_cycle_lane____not_safe___/).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 29, 2010, 08:39:47 am

CTC Forum &bull; Information (http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35608&hilit=southend)
Here's the CC thread, Clicky (http://www.cyclechat.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58444&highlight=southend).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Regulator on June 29, 2010, 09:38:17 am
I'm not going to post much tonight about the meeting.  I did notice the new political approach, the person who might be on sales commission, and the way they're planning on taking the project forwards.   We'll wait and see what happens though.




Interestingly though, chatting to the various council staff, it would appear that I personally am the only person with issues regarding the  Western Esplanade scheme; everybody else in the world loves it.

I will go through my archives, but to make sure I don't miss anything would you mind posting (or PMing me)  links to sites other than this one where members of the public have raised concerns.  If you've got newspaper clippings or other published articles expressing concern then please PM me to let me know what and then if I haven't already got them then either scan them to my email address (acf at my website below) or let me know your address and I'll collect.

Annoyingly it would appear that my name is tarnished as the AUTHOR of clandy's youtube video.  They don't seem to believe that that "stage managed video" was filmed by a concerned member of the public, but was instead my personal attempt to "create significant adverse feeling amongst the public".

Might I suggest that you invite your local CTC Councillor to ride the path and then write to the Council?   ;)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Andrij on June 29, 2010, 09:51:15 am
...

Interestingly though, chatting to the various council staff, it would appear that I personally am the only person with issues regarding the  Western Esplanade scheme; everybody else in the world loves it.

...

Annoyingly it would appear that my name is tarnished as the AUTHOR of clandy's youtube video.  They don't seem to believe that that "stage managed video" was filmed by a concerned member of the public, but was instead my personal attempt to "create significant adverse feeling amongst the public".

Next, they'll have you down as one of those tree-hugging Walkers who keep trying to stifle the development of Southend. ;)
 
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on June 29, 2010, 10:29:01 am
...

Interestingly though, chatting to the various council staff, it would appear that I personally am the only person with issues regarding the  Western Esplanade scheme; everybody else in the world loves it.

...

Annoyingly it would appear that my name is tarnished as the AUTHOR of clandy's youtube video.  They don't seem to believe that that "stage managed video" was filmed by a concerned member of the public, but was instead my personal attempt to "create significant adverse feeling amongst the public".

one of those tree-hugging Walkers
 

Who?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 29, 2010, 10:53:52 am
You have PM
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 29, 2010, 03:02:22 pm
This would seem to be the way to join the path at the Chalkwell end.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TCn7mxZS43I/AAAAAAAAFsw/4ciR4AHA9u4/s640/p6292574.jpg)

Big puddles!
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TCn7nIXLGvI/AAAAAAAAFs0/byPkzuXmzfY/s640/p6292575.jpg)

Not every delivery driver parks on the path.  :thumbsup:
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TCn7njGsvSI/AAAAAAAAFs4/QIGXarK7sEA/s640/p6292576.jpg)

But some like to block the path and slip road.  :facepalm:
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TCn7oPi5C4I/AAAAAAAAFs8/SxCHhVqxQDU/s640/p6292577.jpg)

Just before the casino, heading east, I had a big Merc pull out of the slanted parking bay and put her nearside front wheel over the white line to get out of the space. ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on June 29, 2010, 03:06:05 pm
I'm not going to post much tonight about the meeting.  I did notice the new political approach, the person who might be on sales commission, and the way they're planning on taking the project forwards.   We'll wait and see what happens though.

I was pleased to see the cycle police there and to have a chat with them although I think the younger one was falling asleep with boredom at one point. Talking to them I get the impression that they want to see more police on bikes in the town, which can only be good. They have already spoken to the Casino and Ocean beach about deliveries and taxis using the lane and will speak to the taxi association as well. Oh and if they see any prats RLJ'ing they have a quiet word in their shell-like.

I was slightly bemused by the "Bike Vault presentation". This was a presentation from a small startup company who want to sell a new style of bike locker. However they don't even have a mock up prototype yet, don't really know what their target market is and from the drawings it looks just as ugly as every other bike locker already on the market. Like nutty alluded to above, I detect a whiff of anonymous brown evelopes floating around.

I spoke to Neil Hoskins and another guy (i think he was from Atkins but i'm not 100% certain). I asked them about western esplanade and the distinct lack of dropped kerbs opposite the roads leading onto the seafront. The initial reaction was to tell me how they are liable for safety and can be prosecuted if a design they sign off on results in someone getting injured. More dropped kerbs means more places that vehicles can get onto the cyclepath and they don't want a repeat of the Quad bike incident. What about the dozen dropped kerbs for peds and busses etc? Well they have to provide sufficient access for the disabled or they would be in breach of discrimination law. If they don't want too many dropped kerbs then what about loosing one or two of the pedestrian drop kerbs and adding them opposite shorfield road etc so bikes can get onto the path in the middle not just at the ends? Well there are regular reviews and safety audits. So we may or may not see some dropped kerbs in the future. In the meantime if you want to get onto the path in the middle you are supposed to cycle to the nearest zebra crossing, dismount walk across and then remount on the path. It's great to live in a cycle friendly town.

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 01, 2010, 09:32:45 am
This happened last night. Other than bruises both riders were ok.


      YouTube
            - Nasty off
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I5efm4kP7o)

Both were in the centre of the path, so I call it 50/50 as to blame, but I can't help wondering if the uncut shrubbery made some contribution. (yes they should have been more cautious approaching a blind corner).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on July 01, 2010, 10:26:22 am
On page 2 of the Echo today a yellow tipper is pictured driving on the cycle path and reportedly forcing cyclists onto the road. Will probably go online later today/tomorrow.

Clearly there must be a break in the raised white line!  ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 01, 2010, 10:30:28 am
Not only are they forcing cyclists into the road, they are destroying the cycle path surface. At least half a mile of it is now like riding on a washboard.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: montysboy on July 01, 2010, 10:34:07 am
Not only are they forcing cyclists into the road, they are destroying the cycle path surface. At least half a mile of it is now like riding on a washboard.

This is exactly what I noticed a week or so ago http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=31115.msg653387#msg653387 (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=31115.msg653387#msg653387)


Cheers!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on July 01, 2010, 10:44:29 am
This happened last night. Other than bruises both riders were ok.


      YouTube
            - Nasty off
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSVsZSY-oeQ)

Both were in the centre of the path, so I call it 50/50 as to blame, but I can't help wondering if the uncut shrubbery made some contribution. (yes they should have been more cautious approaching a blind corner).

That path used to be much more dangerous, with railings to catch the handlebars and pointed spikes to take out the eyes of the falling cyclist.  (captured on streetview (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Southend-on-Sea,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.524392,0.779943&spn=0,0.038581&z=15&layer=c&cbll=51.524342,0.779768&panoid=kl5n0joq4jfj81RffXQjWw&cbp=12,109.26,,0,21.22)).

I raised this a while ago at the cycle group and was told that it was already planned to take the railings out, which I understand has now been completed.

It was raised on Monday that now that the railings have been removed the vegetation is overhanging the path and needs pruning back.  This is a good example of why!    I might forward the url to the council.


I'm glad the riders are ok!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 01, 2010, 10:48:38 am
 This is a good example of why!    I might forward the url to the council.

It is currently uploading to the other Youtube account. Will be ready for you to forward in about 30 minutes.  ;)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 01, 2010, 10:50:34 am
Not only are they forcing cyclists into the road, they are destroying the cycle path surface. At least half a mile of it is now like riding on a washboard.

This is exactly what I noticed a week or so ago http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=31115.msg653387#msg653387 (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=31115.msg653387#msg653387)




Cheers!

I like your avatar, that'll be at the Chalkwell end of the cinder track then!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: montysboy on July 01, 2010, 10:58:21 am
I like your avatar, that'll be at the Chalkwell end of the cinder track then!

Yes indeed, I have been wondering over the past few weeks if they are "official" council painted signs.  I know cycling is prohibited along there but did think it looked like the work of some local hero(es) trying to be clever.  I cannot believe the council would spend my council tax money on such shoddy work  ;)



Iain
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on July 01, 2010, 02:23:42 pm
This happened last night. Other than bruises both riders were ok.


      YouTube
            - Nasty off
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSVsZSY-oeQ)

Both were in the centre of the path, so I call it 50/50 as to blame, but I can't help wondering if the uncut shrubbery made some contribution. (yes they should have been more cautious approaching a blind corner).

Glad they were both OK. Looks like at least one of them has a buckled wheel though.

The problem of the shrubbery along there has been reported via the counil website several times and the lack of action was raised at Mondays forum meeting. In this instance though I don't think the overgrowth played a role in the accident but still it should be cut back.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on July 01, 2010, 04:25:13 pm
This happened last night. Other than bruises both riders were ok.


      YouTube
            - Nasty off
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I5efm4kP7o)

Both were in the centre of the path, so I call it 50/50 as to blame, but I can't help wondering if the uncut shrubbery made some contribution. (yes they should have been more cautious approaching a blind corner).

That front wheel doesnt look too clever after that  :o
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on July 01, 2010, 10:58:15 pm
I've watched this time and time again.

I can't get youtube paused at the correct point, but this is pretty close
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/Southend%20Cycle%20Town/collision.jpg)

The rider clandy's following is already taking avoiding action to the left and is therefore more upright.  The oncoming rider is taking avoiding action and therefore more leant over.

Even if both riders were keeping close to the left I think they may have still collided, handlebar to handlebar, with resulting falls.


I don't want to blame the cycle path, but I believe this collision was down to three main factors.
1) width (reduced by vegetation)
2) lack of sightlines (vegetation/path design)
3) coincidence leading to both riders hitting the apex of the bend at the same time.

point 2) could be mitigated by both riders slowing dramatically, but that implies bad path design since paths should be designed to be used at all reasonable speeds; and those riders weren't caning it.


I've shown this to a colleague who is a local rider, and fast but on a MTB not road bike. (I hope this gives you a clue as to his interests, he's not an out and out racer).   He said "I've blatted round there time and time again without any thought as to that happening!"
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: teethgrinder on July 01, 2010, 11:22:05 pm
That's one thing I'm very wary about when I use the Milton Keynes Redways. The Redways are about as wide as that cyclepath, if not, wider, but can be overgrown. Even whe they're not overgrown, you get blind bends, just like that one.
The trouble is, as is very well demonstrated in that video, that instead of everyone keeping left, there's no guarantee that any oncoming cyclist will keep left, right, centre, or weave from left to right. There could also be pedstrians taking up the width of the path too.

I think that there was enough room for them both to pass safely. Who to blame? I don't think the chap Clandy was following was too clever. Veering to the right before the bend, then to the left to take the bend. But I reckon the one coming the other way seemed worse. I got the impression he wasn't paying attention. Looking at Clandy's video, you could see a fair way around the bend from where Clandy was as the video closed. I had something similar the other day. Someone coming around a bend towards me, not really paying attention. I saw her coming and stopped before the bend and put my foot down. If I was paying as little attention as she was, then we'd have hit each other.
I think that there is a lot of the mentality that cyclepaths are always safe to cycle on, so you don't need to pay attention to what you are doing and can use it as if it was a footpath, not needing to keep left as you would on a road. I find that the Milton Keynes Redways are a very good way of sharpening up my skills for riding within a good safety margin. You really don't know what is coming around the next corner. They can be very hazardous at times.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on July 01, 2010, 11:38:07 pm
That's one thing I'm very wary about when I use the Milton Keynes Redways. The Redways are about as wide as that cyclepath, if not, wider, but can be overgrown. Even whe they're not overgrown, you get blind bends, just like that one.

.........

I think that there is a lot of the mentality that cyclepaths are always safe to cycle on, so you don't need to pay attention to what you are doing and can use it as if it was a footpath, not needing to keep left as you would on a road. I find that the Milton Keynes Redways are a very good way of sharpening up my skills for riding within a good safety margin. You really don't know what is coming around the next corner. They can be very hazardous at times.

As a user of both, the redways are wider.

The mentality that they are safe is my main gripe.    Either make them as safe as they imply they are, or add details that remove that implication (signage, surfacing, etc etc etc)


You said "I find that the Milton Keynes Redways are a very good way of sharpening up my skills for riding within a good safety margin.".  I used the Southend Western Esplanade on a quiet sunday at the 'grand opening'; due to the amount of attention I needed to use to be on the ball (and i had a few near misses) I found it extremely stressful.   This is why a route I have used daily for the last ten years is now out of bounds to me.  I used to find it a good way to chill after work, now it's an extreme obstacle course only to be used when completely on the ball and fancying a challenge.  Not really what a cycle town should have achieved?!?!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 02, 2010, 11:23:51 am
I raised this a while ago at the cycle group and was told that it was already planned to take the railings out, which I understand has now been completed.

It was raised on Monday that now that the railings have been removed the vegetation is overhanging the path and needs pruning back.  This is a good example of why!    I might forward the url to the council.


I'm glad the riders are ok!

Not all the railings have been removed. Now the boundary fence is gone, the end of the old inner boundary fence is now fully exposed, nicely camouflaged, and there to be ridden into by anyone avoiding oncoming cyclists.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/RemainingFence.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: montysboy on July 03, 2010, 09:39:30 am
On page 2 of the Echo today a yellow tipper is pictured driving on the cycle path and reportedly forcing cyclists onto the road. Will probably go online later today/tomorrow.

Does anyone have a link to this story if it has been put online? Have checked the Echo and cannot find it.


Cheers  :thumbsup:

Iain
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on July 03, 2010, 10:43:07 am
On page 2 of the Echo today a yellow tipper is pictured driving on the cycle path and reportedly forcing cyclists onto the road. Will probably go online later today/tomorrow.

Does anyone have a link to this story if it has been put online? Have checked the Echo and cannot find it.


Cheers  :thumbsup:

Iain

Here 'tis!  (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4077/4756635887_1eca2365d7_b.jpg)   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: montysboy on July 03, 2010, 12:59:50 pm
On page 2 of the Echo today a yellow tipper is pictured driving on the cycle path and reportedly forcing cyclists onto the road. Will probably go online later today/tomorrow.

Does anyone have a link to this story if it has been put online? Have checked the Echo and cannot find it.


Cheers  :thumbsup:

Iain

Here 'tis!  (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4077/4756635887_1eca2365d7_b.jpg)   :thumbsup:

Thank you!

Iain
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 03, 2010, 10:18:13 pm
I suppose the idiots on the council will say this was 'stage managed' too…


      YouTube
            - Cycle UNfriendly Town
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL6XRJL8gSs)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: teethgrinder on July 03, 2010, 10:51:10 pm
As a user of both, the redways are wider.


Very probably, they are very wide, but can get so overgrown that only one person can get past at a time.

Quote
The mentality that they are safe is my main gripe.    Either make them as safe as they imply they are, or add details that remove that implication (signage, surfacing, etc etc etc)

Redways still leave a lot to be desired most of the time. But even at best, it's the way people use them that makes them hazardous to use. Instead of following rules like you do on the road, people tend to think that they are perfectly safe, so there's no need to keep left etc. Even on a very wide Redway, I still have to be very carefull passing pedestrians who weave about.  They're no problem, but cyclists often behave the same way and I often get situations where I'm heading straight for another cyclist coming towards me and we have to negotiate who goes where or stop.


Quote
You said "I find that the Milton Keynes Redways are a very good way of sharpening up my skills for riding within a good safety margin.".  I used the Southend Western Esplanade on a quiet sunday at the 'grand opening'; due to the amount of attention I needed to use to be on the ball (and i had a few near misses) I found it extremely stressful.  


Yes, I think that's just too much unless you cycle very slowly. It's about as hectic as my commute when I pass the kids, but that's only for about 30 yards and at <10mph with fingers ready on the brakes and eyes peeled. I'd need to lie down in a dark room for a few hours if I had to concentrate that hard for miles at a time.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on July 05, 2010, 05:36:28 pm
I was unsure if I should start a new thread for this, but instead thought I would put it in with the Southend stuff even though it happened in Great Wakering which is under Rochford Council afaik.
This has taken a bit of detective work by me as the quality of the video didn’t capture the company name etc.
That and being away for a week, this happened about three weeks ago. Anyway I was out having a ride on Saturday morning when I came across the lorry parked on the side of the road. I have emailed the business concerned, but as of yet I have had no reply. It was one of the web based forms rather than e-mail so I am not sure if they will ever gets it.
At the time of the incident something kicked in with me as I approached the junction, very glad it did.
If you want to circulate the video to local cyclists please feel free to do so. This person is a liability and in my opinion should not be on the road.

http://www.youtube.com/user/2FlatErics#p/u/0/8Cb-5sWwCQY (http://www.youtube.com/user/2FlatErics#p/u/0/8Cb-5sWwCQY)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 05, 2010, 10:08:47 pm
On page 2 of the Echo today a yellow tipper is pictured driving on the cycle path and reportedly forcing cyclists onto the road. Will probably go online later today/tomorrow.

Does anyone have a link to this story if it has been put online? Have checked the Echo and cannot find it.


Cheers  :thumbsup:

Iain

Here 'tis!  (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4077/4756635887_1eca2365d7_b.jpg)   :thumbsup:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/Echodumptruckstory.jpg)

… and yet today:


      YouTube
            - How to trash a new cycle lane...
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZBkvZLwKL0)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on July 06, 2010, 08:34:31 am
I could be wrong but...
That tipper is for off road use only! It has no number plate. I doubt it's legal on the beach let alone the pavement, cycle path, or road.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 07, 2010, 10:02:40 am
SBC could learn a thing or two from Bristol:

IF drivers think it's hard to find a parking space in the city centre at the moment, it's about to get worse.  (http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/City-council-plans-swap-car-parks-bicycle-racks/article-2387737-detail/article.html)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on July 07, 2010, 10:22:20 am
A good idea by Bristol. There isn't enough parking in the right places in SoS and changing a few car parking spots to bike parking wouldn't hurt.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TDHW11elY1I/AAAAAAAAFvE/-S0Qdz1F6lM/vicavepark.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on July 07, 2010, 07:51:34 pm
A good idea by Bristol. There isn't enough parking in the right places in SoS and changing a few car parking spots to bike parking wouldn't hurt.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TDHW11elY1I/AAAAAAAAFvE/-S0Qdz1F6lM/vicavepark.jpg)


That looks like it is outside Thamesgate House.

I worked for Thus in Thamesgate house for several years. Most people who cycled in locked bikes to the railings on the ramps at the front of the building. Then the building managers painted the railings and told all tenants that any bikes locked to the railings would be cut off and removed.

I kicked up a big fuss and riled up all the other cyclists in the office. The company could not persuade the building managers to change their minds. Eventually Thus gave up a couple of their car parking spaces underneath the building and installed bike racks inside a locked cage.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 08, 2010, 08:36:30 pm

      YouTube
            - WTH?
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=697jEsat_zw)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on July 08, 2010, 08:52:46 pm

      YouTube
            - WTH?
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=697jEsat_zw)

Electric scooters/bikes. Afaik no number plate or licence required.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 08, 2010, 09:25:17 pm

      YouTube
            - WTH?
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=697jEsat_zw)

Electric scooters/bikes. Afaik no number plate or licence required.


As far as I'm concerned if it has an engine it's a motorbike and shouldn't be in the cycle lane.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on July 08, 2010, 09:36:06 pm
Electric scooters/bikes. Afaik no number plate or licence required.
As far as I'm concerned if it has an engine it's a motorbike and shouldn't be in the cycle lane.
If they have pedals and the motor cuts out at 12mph then they are bicycles and allowed on the path, AFAIK. If the motor takes them over 12 mph then I think they become mopeds and you need licence, VED (possibly), and proper motorcycle helmets. AFAIK.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on July 11, 2010, 06:07:06 pm
A classic welcome to Southend on Sea. A Cycling Town!  :facepalm:

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TDn6AJPYsLI/AAAAAAAAFv8/amf02SirLgg/s640/p7112627.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on July 12, 2010, 01:09:02 pm
From todays Evening Echo, this case has finally come to court  :(

http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/8266431.Teenager_facing_jail_for_killing_cyclist_in_road_smash/ (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/8266431.Teenager_facing_jail_for_killing_cyclist_in_road_smash/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nicknack on July 12, 2010, 02:15:31 pm
Quote
David Ewings, in mitigation, said Nash had some mental health problems, and asked for an adjournment for a pre-sentence report.

Presumably then, having mental health problems doesn't actually make you unfit to drive - just gives you an excuse if you "accidentally" kill someone.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 15, 2010, 12:24:05 pm
Southend Council are asking for input on the latest Transport Plan for the Borough:

Share your views on new transport strategy for Southend (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8274125.Share_your_views_on_new_transport_strategy_for_Southend/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 15, 2010, 08:53:22 pm
Cabbie illegally parked in the cycle lane indicated me to cycle round him in the road, I indicated for him to get out of the bloody way!


      YouTube
            - No, YOU move.
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPJqIOl63zk)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on July 16, 2010, 08:28:22 am
It's a shame you didn't take his wing mirror with you.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Tewdric on July 16, 2010, 08:33:46 am
Cabbie illegally parked in the cycle lane indicated me to cycle round him in the road, I indicated for him to get out of the bloody way!


      YouTube
            - No, YOU move.
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPJqIOl63zk)

What a complete arse.  You should report him to the Hackney Carriage licencing office, then we'll see how serious the Council are about keeping the cycle lane clear.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on July 16, 2010, 11:44:07 am
A section of the path will be closed on the 25th July.   I wonder how eastbound cyclists will negotiate crossing the road twice?

Seafront Cycle Path Closed 25th July &laquo;  Cycle Southend (http://www.cyclesouthend.co.uk/News/index.php/seafront-cycle-path-closed-25th-july/)

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on July 16, 2010, 11:48:48 am
Cabbie illegally parked in the cycle lane indicated me to cycle round him in the road, I indicated for him to get out of the bloody way!


      YouTube
            - No, YOU move.
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPJqIOl63zk)

Pleased you stood your ground  :thumbsup:

What is it with taxi's ? Going into work this morning a taxi had just dropped off a fare at the hospital main entrance (tower block). If he drove 20 meters on there is a purpose built rab for turning around but no he had to pull across the road, despite clearly seeing me aproaching, and perform a three point turn  :(   
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 19, 2010, 08:29:11 pm
Another idiot had to be put straight about 'road tax' on the Echo's website:

Back in the saddle events promote cycling in Southend (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8280308.Back_in_the_saddle_events_promote_cycling_in_Southend/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Gandalf on July 19, 2010, 08:39:56 pm
Another idiot had to be put straight about 'road tax' on the Echo's website:

Back in the saddle events promote cycling in Southend (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8280308.Back_in_the_saddle_events_promote_cycling_in_Southend/)

Nicely done.  He's been told.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 19, 2010, 10:19:22 pm

      YouTube
            - Ocean Beach finally getting the message?
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5Eszlv_XAA)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 22, 2010, 10:01:28 pm
I'm starting to feel like the lone voice in the wilderness:

London to Southend bike ride success (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8278812.London_to_Southend_bike_ride_success/?ref=mc)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on July 22, 2010, 10:08:15 pm
Dust off & nuke it from orbit.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 22, 2010, 10:30:12 pm
Wish I could but it is just so difficult not to respond to the ignorance being posted there!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on July 23, 2010, 09:27:30 am
I think all Southend residents with an IQ over 75 (I think they are all known to this forum, from the evidence) should be evacuated, and the appropriate authorities seal the town off for 'decontamination'.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on July 23, 2010, 09:34:38 am
Wish I could but it is just so difficult not to respond to the ignorance being posted there!

I have learned that it really is totally pointless to engage with these cretins.

The problem with stuff on the Echo website is that the agenda is set by the usual suspects (the editor, one Martin McMeil, is more than just a council apologist) and to get involved in the "debate" on their website just dances to their tune.

It's probably better, if you want to get stuff off your chest, to post it on your own website and link to it from the Echo site. That way, you don't need to get involved in knockabout with the likes of "Baker Boy" or "Southend Mechanic". Just present them with your stuff.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: montysboy on July 23, 2010, 09:53:43 am
Wish I could but it is just so difficult not to respond to the ignorance being posted there!

I honestly wouldnt bother getting involved - you'll just end up going crazy like Baker_boy!  :P

Let them have their rants, I doubt many people read those comments anyway.


Iain
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 23, 2010, 10:16:06 am
I doubt many people read those comments anyway.


Iain

You'd be surprised. It is well known that the local police, the council, and our MP read that website. If there are no rebuttals from cyclists they all assume everything is hunky-dory.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on July 23, 2010, 10:17:22 am
Baker Boy is a poppet, isn't he?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: montysboy on July 23, 2010, 10:36:50 am
Baker Boy is a poppet, isn't he?

Shouldn't that be muppet?  ;D

Iain
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 23, 2010, 10:54:50 am
'Baker boy' turns up on most cycling related topics:

Updated: Cyclist hurt in A127 crash (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8251113.Updated__Cyclist_hurt_in_A127_crash/)

Back in the saddle events promote cycling in Southend (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8280308.Back_in_the_saddle_events_promote_cycling_in_Southend/?ref=mc)

Bikes stolen from Southend High Street (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8274096.Bikes_stolen_from_Southend_High_Street/?ref=mc)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on July 23, 2010, 10:59:38 am
I've benefitted from his wisdom and apercus before.  Southend is too small for him; a great with such as that needs to break the bonds of provincialism and come to London to get shanked as soon as he opens his gob to sprinkle his apposite aphorisms upon the great and the good in society, in the tradition of Samuel Johnson.

He was a tosser, too.  But from Lichfield.  Which is a bit like Southend-on-Sea.  With a stonking great cathedral.  And without the sea.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 23, 2010, 12:49:22 pm
There's a very interesting statement from 'BD' at the bottom of the comments here:

Back in the saddle events promote cycling in Southend (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8280308.Back_in_the_saddle_events_promote_cycling_in_Southend/?ref=mc)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on July 23, 2010, 01:10:34 pm
Curious.  Wonder what he knows.

Is Baker Boy's mastery of what I presume to be the English language regressing, btw?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: montysboy on July 23, 2010, 02:04:40 pm
'Baker boy' turns up on most cycling related topics:

If it wasnt so sad all of his jibberish would be funny, actually I had to laugh at the comment about the laser pens we all wear.  Now if I were to wear one of these he'd know about it alright - more like a light sabre than laser pen Wicked Lasers S3 Arctic Spyder III (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-SduY4A2kE/)  ;D


Iain




Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on July 23, 2010, 07:17:55 pm
Cycling England are/were at the civic centre this week with SBC trying to get more money out of them.</rumourmonger>
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on July 23, 2010, 08:02:41 pm
I'm starting to feel like the lone voice in the wilderness:

London to Southend bike ride success (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8278812.London_to_Southend_bike_ride_success/?ref=mc)

I'm afraid I gave up posting on the Echo sitea long time ago. I was suffering from concussion far to often from all the banging my head against a brick wall.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on July 24, 2010, 08:19:13 pm
Oblivious peds on the western esplanade path.

Oblivious peds (http://www.youtube.com/user/2FlatErics#p/a/u/0/mYVM9BbFhS4)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 24, 2010, 08:49:50 pm
Oblivious peds on the western esplanade path.

Oblivious peds (http://www.youtube.com/user/2FlatErics#p/a/u/0/mYVM9BbFhS4)

B… b… but Southend Council said the markings and signs would keep pedestrians out of the cycle path...
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 24, 2010, 09:28:15 pm

      YouTube
            - Van P209 UGC in cycle lane
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PIcOnkklRI)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on July 25, 2010, 09:29:38 am
Vans and peds on the cyclepath. vans and bikes on the pavement, a real mess on the carrigway and parking that half the drivers cannot understand how to use, Palm trees that are dying and being held up by planks of wood........

I have to say well done SBC for taking a seafront that was not perfect but at least worked and turning it into a free for alll mess that does not work properly for anyone.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 25, 2010, 08:47:49 pm
Vans and peds on the cyclepath. vans and bikes on the pavement, a real mess on the carrigway and parking that half the drivers cannot understand how to use, Palm trees that are dying and being held up by planks of wood........

I have to say well done SBC for taking a seafront that was not perfect but at least worked and turning it into a free for alll mess that does not work properly for anyone.


I couldn't have said it better.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 26, 2010, 12:49:13 pm
Yesterday:


      YouTube
            - Seafront dickhead
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTX1tHAQSBs)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on July 29, 2010, 04:51:06 pm
To "speed" movement through the junction of the A127 and Progress Road, Clicky (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=51.566587,0.641756&spn=0.015446,0.029483&z=15), SBC are making a third lane that'll turn left from the A127 and down Progress Road. At the moment all the work is overnight. This morning I took this picture
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TFGiG8MtVvI/AAAAAAAAF0Q/WzuxjTEmv_Q/s640/prog1600.jpg)

because there are no signs that inform the cyclist that the lane is closed. At the western end of the works there are two boards which display the exciting information of the company digging up the lane!

Amazingly the cafe sign is not in the lane as is normal.  ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on July 29, 2010, 07:06:17 pm
How will you be able to access the cycle lane from Progress Road, or is it going to be an exra narrow lane  ???
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on July 29, 2010, 07:13:11 pm
How will you be able to access the cycle lane from Progress Road, or is it going to be an exra narrow lane  ???
Probably the same way but the lane will be shared, including the lampost and cafe sign. They might say to use the northern side or the ped crossing.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on July 29, 2010, 07:17:44 pm
Just looking at the plans fpr Progress Road, looks as though there will be a sperate cycle path alonside the road.
Ps is that sign locked to anything? If not it deserves to fall over into the bush  :demon:

http://www.southend.gov.uk/downloads/download/463/progress_road (http://www.southend.gov.uk/downloads/download/463/progress_road)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on July 30, 2010, 04:00:00 pm
This is the Greenway at Highfield Crescent.
Run out of money or quick finish for the holibobs?
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TFLoQFR8WEI/AAAAAAAAF0k/hWMkQq4o7aE/s640/p7302652.jpg)

I hope for holibob finish.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 30, 2010, 05:09:17 pm
Does anyone know if the plans for Vic Circus are available online anywhere? I was wondering what that short length of path is for on the left as you pass under the shopping centre traveling towards Vic Circus from Southchurch on the Queensway.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: JOJO on July 30, 2010, 05:20:30 pm
Yesterday:


      YouTube
            - Seafront dickhead
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTX1tHAQSBs)

The car is not going any faster than 15 MPH and is no closer to you than you were to it?

As both an avid cyclist and car driver, I really dont know what the problem is here?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on July 30, 2010, 05:26:45 pm
I think its more to do with overtaking then having to stop or brake. Also why does he MrLotoss have to move over towards the kerb after the overtake?
Its shit driving imo, something that is quite a frequent occurance along the seafront. 
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 30, 2010, 05:28:01 pm
Yesterday:


      YouTube
            - Seafront dickhead
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTX1tHAQSBs)

The car is not going any faster than 15 MPH and is no closer to you than you were to it?

As both an avid cyclist and car driver, I really dont know what the problem is here?

When I passed him there was about two feet between us and he was stationary, he deliberately speeded up and passed about three inches from my right leg… you don't have a problem with drivers doing that?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on July 30, 2010, 05:31:07 pm
 ::-)

Even I can see the problem.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: JOJO on July 30, 2010, 05:31:51 pm
Yesterday:


      YouTube
            - Seafront dickhead
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTX1tHAQSBs)

The car is not going any faster than 15 MPH and is no closer to you than you were to it?

As both an avid cyclist and car driver, I really dont know what the problem is here?

When I passed him there was about two feet between us and he was stationary, he deliberately speeded up and passed about three inches from my right leg… you don't have a problem with drivers doing that?

Of course he deliberatly speeded up, he had to move forward from being stationary.  It just has a noisy exhaust.  You can see after he overtakes you, that he moves back in.  As said, that video shows that there is the same amount of space that you undertook him with, than s/he overtook you with.  So no, I don't think its dangerous at all, and have no problem with the driver doing that.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 30, 2010, 06:10:18 pm
Yesterday:


      YouTube
            - Seafront dickhead
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTX1tHAQSBs)

The car is not going any faster than 15 MPH and is no closer to you than you were to it?

As both an avid cyclist and car driver, I really dont know what the problem is here?

When I passed him there was about two feet between us and he was stationary, he deliberately speeded up and passed about three inches from my right leg… you don't have a problem with drivers doing that?

Of course he deliberatly speeded up, he had to move forward from being stationary.  It just has a noisy exhaust.  You can see after he overtakes you, that he moves back in.  As said, that video shows that there is the same amount of space that you undertook him with, than s/he overtook you with.  So no, I don't think its dangerous at all, and have no problem with the driver doing that.


See Highway Code rule 163.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: JOJO on July 30, 2010, 06:55:12 pm
Yesterday:


      YouTube
            - Seafront dickhead
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTX1tHAQSBs)

The car is not going any faster than 15 MPH and is no closer to you than you were to it?

As both an avid cyclist and car driver, I really dont know what the problem is here?

When I passed him there was about two feet between us and he was stationary, he deliberately speeded up and passed about three inches from my right leg… you don't have a problem with drivers doing that?

Of course he deliberatly speeded up, he had to move forward from being stationary.  It just has a noisy exhaust.  You can see after he overtakes you, that he moves back in.  As said, that video shows that there is the same amount of space that you undertook him with, than s/he overtook you with.  So no, I don't think its dangerous at all, and have no problem with the driver doing that.


See Highway Code rule 163.

It was safe and legal to do so, and from that video, as much as you left him as you undertook...He didnt cut you up.  Nothing illegal in that al all.

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on July 30, 2010, 06:56:03 pm
Would it be acceptable for a car to pass a cyclist at the same distance/space as a cyclist passes the car?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: JOJO on July 30, 2010, 06:58:48 pm
Would it be acceptable for a car to pass a cyclist at the same distance/space as a cyclist passes the car?

In a circumstance like that, then yes.  What is the cars alternative solution?  He didnt have another side of the road to go across to, its tight, yes, but clearly the cyclist is comfortable with being that close? I dont see the problem.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on July 30, 2010, 07:02:06 pm
Looks like you're the only one not seeing the problem.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Adam on July 30, 2010, 07:04:12 pm
Yesterday:


      YouTube
            - Seafront dickhead
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTX1tHAQSBs)

The car is not going any faster than 15 MPH and is no closer to you than you were to it?

As both an avid cyclist and car driver, I really dont know what the problem is here?

When I passed him there was about two feet between us and he was stationary, he deliberately speeded up and passed about three inches from my right leg… you don't have a problem with drivers doing that?

True, although bear in mind after you'd gone past him, you did move out away from the edge of the road.  When you look at the video at the point before then, when you freeze it to show the Lotus, there's not much more than 1 ft from the right of the Lotus to the traffic cones next to the barriers.  So that's why he's so close to you.  I'm not excusing him blasting past though, that's being a typical motorist sadly, and ignoring the fact he's got to brake shortly!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 30, 2010, 07:12:03 pm

True, although bear in mind after you'd gone past him, you did move out away from the edge of the road.  

I moved out to the correct road position. In retrospect as there was a queue ahead I think I should have moved out to the primary and made sure no idiots would try to squeeze past.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 30, 2010, 07:13:44 pm
Would it be acceptable for a car to pass a cyclist at the same distance/space as a cyclist passes the car?

  What is the cars alternative solution?  

Simple, he waits until there is room to pass SAFELY.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on July 30, 2010, 07:24:54 pm
I think that driver was badly at fault - there was no need for him to overtake because he was in a queue and couldn't get past the next car, whereas a cyclist can.

If a cyclist chooses to filter that's his/her decision: the cyclist is in control and the driver should make allowances for the fact that they are driving a vehicle which occupies far more than their fair share of the road. I think a good analogy is if I am cycling along a narrow lane an a vehicle is coming the other way, I will hold the centre of the road and make damned sure they slow down. Most will stop and let the cyclist manoeuvre past them. On the other hand, if the cyclist takes their position near the LH verge too soon, there's a lot of gits who will take advantage and hammer a few inches past without adjusting their speed.

I agree with Clandy that taking primary at that point was the correct thing to do, but it could also be interpreted as being provocative.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on July 30, 2010, 08:14:10 pm
Would it be acceptable for a car to pass a cyclist at the same distance/space as a cyclist passes the car?

  What is the cars alternative solution? 

Simple, he waits until there is room to pass SAFELY.

Exactly that.  This is a prime place for primary.

It astounds me that anyone posting on a cycle forum can't see what is wrong with stupid driving like that.

Rule 163.  There's even a picture for those many drivers who can't read.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: hellymedic on July 30, 2010, 08:58:43 pm
Would it be acceptable for a car to pass a cyclist at the same distance/space as a cyclist passes the car?

  What is the cars alternative solution? 

Simple, he waits until there is room to pass SAFELY.

Exactly that.  This is a prime place for primary.

It astounds me that anyone posting on a cycle forum can't see what is wrong with stupid driving like that.

Rule 163.  There's even a picture for those many drivers who can't read.

Clarion, you are forgetting the First Rule of the Motorist:

All cyclists MUST be overtaken.
What's the problem? Smiley deliberately omited
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on July 31, 2010, 09:37:11 am
Does anyone know if the plans for Vic Circus are available online anywhere? I was wondering what that short length of path is for on the left as you pass under the shopping centre traveling towards Vic Circus from Southchurch on the Queensway.

Clandy, You have PM.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: pro_rider on July 31, 2010, 09:51:42 am
wtf

It's about time cyclists took responsibility for their own safety instead of trying to blame others for their stupidity.

It's hippy bikers like you who give pro cyclists a bad name.

YOU clearly underatook a  car which stopped for people to cross the road when you knew full well it was going to move again.

If you keep on like this you will get knocked off.

If you would have done that to me you would have got a load of horn for being so stupid.

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 31, 2010, 09:55:21 am
Does anyone know if the plans for Vic Circus are available online anywhere? I was wondering what that short length of path is for on the left as you pass under the shopping centre traveling towards Vic Circus from Southchurch on the Queensway.

Clandy, You have PM.


Thanks 2FE.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: JOJO on July 31, 2010, 09:57:39 am
Looks like you're the only one not seeing the problem.

Ya think?  Just look at the You tube comments...
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Tewdric on July 31, 2010, 10:08:40 am
I don't think that posting messages on Youtube accusing motorists of being dickheads for transgressions like this is very helpful tbh.  

The Lotus driver was a bit of a cock, for sure, but as others have pointed out you had just demonstrated that you were comfortable filtering up the inside of moving traffic at very close range, and the Lotus driver was, at least, showing some consideration for the pedestrians.

I have to say that remonstrating with pedestrians in the cycle lane (which is always going to happen) is a tiny bit like motorists remonstrating with cyclists who "get in their way".  Maybe a bit more karma is called for by all of us?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on July 31, 2010, 10:20:48 am
The space for filtering argument is BS. Filtering past a stationary car is one thing, but the same space, or less, and a car going past a moving cyclist at 20+mph and accelerating isnt the same thing.
I have stopped using the seafront at busy times when heading west. Just too many idiot car drivers who will not allow you the space to filter past etc etc and when you do think it is some type of race.
I am glad of the recent surge in 'video cyclists'.  
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 31, 2010, 10:24:06 am
I don't think that posting messages on Youtube accusing motorists of being dickheads for transgressions like this is very helpful tbh.  

The Lotus driver was a bit of a cock, for sure, but as others have pointed out you had just demonstrated that you were comfortable filtering up the inside of moving traffic at very close range, and the Lotus driver was, at least, showing some consideration for the pedestrians.

I have to say that remonstarting with pedestrians in the cycle lane (which is always going to happen) is a tiny bit like motorists remonstrating with cyclists who "get in their way".  Maybe a bit more karma is called for by all of us?


When I reached the speed hump the pedestrians were no longer in the road. Also that is not a pedestrian crossing, there is a permanent barrier to the left to prevent people crossing at that point.
 I am comfortable filtering beside stationary and slow moving traffic, I am not comfortable with idiots then blasting past me a few inches away just to get to the end of a traffic jam fifty yards away. Look at the video, he deliberately cut close to me, so close he almost crossed the double yellows ahead of me.

As for 'remonstrating with pedestrians', if some cud-chewing idiot steps out in front of me without looking, or stands in the cycle lane blank faced and drooling as I approach, then you can be very sure I will point out their mistake. It may save them, and others, serious injury in future.

Aw, isn't that sweet, JOJO brought a little friend with him today! Must be the school holidays.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: JOJO on July 31, 2010, 10:29:22 am
I don't think that posting messages on Youtube accusing motorists of being dickheads for transgressions like this is very helpful tbh.  

The Lotus driver was a bit of a cock, for sure, but as others have pointed out you had just demonstrated that you were comfortable filtering up the inside of moving traffic at very close range, and the Lotus driver was, at least, showing some consideration for the pedestrians.

I have to say that remonstarting with pedestrians in the cycle lane (which is always going to happen) is a tiny bit like motorists remonstrating with cyclists who "get in their way".  Maybe a bit more karma is called for by all of us?



As for 'remonstrating with pedestrians', if some cud-chewing idiot steps out in front of me without looking, or stands in the cycle lane blank faced and drooling as I approach, then you can be very sure I will point out their mistake. It may save them, and others, serious injury in future.

Aw, isn't that sweet, JOJO brought a little friend with him today! Must be the school holidays.

I think you will find that whatever vehicle you are in/on pedestrians have priority...as you seem so quick to quote the h/w code.

And is that all you have, trying to make personal, bullying, attacks...
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: pro_rider on July 31, 2010, 11:03:19 am
quote
" I am comfortable filtering beside stationary and slow moving traffic, I am not comfortable with idiots then blasting past me a few inches away just to get to the end of a traffic jam fifty yards away. Look at the video, he deliberately cut close to me, so close he almost crossed the double yellows ahead of me.
"

you clearly have issues, and need some cycle training, how old are you ?  can you drive ?

He did NOT deliberately cut close to you he had no where to go, YOU undertook him which at speeds like that is a stupid thing to do the road was clear ahead after the people crossed you could see he was going to move off, but no you went and undertook him and forced him to change his line.
As I say, if you keep riding like this you will get knocked off.

as I said on page 37

"It's about time cyclists took responsibility for their own safety instead of trying to blame others for their stupidity."

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 31, 2010, 11:30:37 am
It is about time some motorists actually learned how to drive, and actually learned the Highway Code.

For your information I am also a driver, of cars as well as in a professional capacity, and have held a clean licence since 1980. There is no way I would have passed a cyclist like that in a narrow lane as that idiot in the Lotus did.

Highway Code rule 163:

'give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car'

Overtaking (162-169) : Directgov - Travel and transport (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070314)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Tewdric on July 31, 2010, 11:34:48 am
As for 'remonstrating with pedestrians', if some cud-chewing idiot steps out in front of me without looking, or stands in the cycle lane blank faced and drooling as I approach, then you can be very sure I will point out their mistake. It may save them, and others, serious injury in future.

Aw, isn't that sweet, JOJO brought a little friend with him today! Must be the school holidays.

I can't compete with quality debate like that.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on July 31, 2010, 11:43:49 am
Town’s arts festival to be powered by 500 cyclists

Festival organiser Metal is setting up the Big Charge with the help of Cycle Southend to power up a “green stage”, where a wide variety of acts are lined up to perform.

Organiser Jane Wilkes came up with the bright idea to power the stage.

She said: “We need volunteers to generate the 500 cycle hours needed.

“Bikes will be connected to huge 5kw batteries. These will collect the power generated by the cycling and will then in turn power the Green Stage. We believe this method has never been used before.

“It ticks all the right boxes. It’s a good way of working out and it helps the environment.

“We are inviting Southend residents to get involved and help generate the power needed to make it a very special event.”


http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8301488.Town___s_arts_festival_to_be_powered_by_500_cyclists/ (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8301488.Town___s_arts_festival_to_be_powered_by_500_cyclists/)

This sounds good, I am going to give an hour or so charge time.
The festival isn't bad either  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 31, 2010, 11:45:43 am
As for 'remonstrating with pedestrians', if some cud-chewing idiot steps out in front of me without looking, or stands in the cycle lane blank faced and drooling as I approach, then you can be very sure I will point out their mistake. It may save them, and others, serious injury in future.

Aw, isn't that sweet, JOJO brought a little friend with him today! Must be the school holidays.

I can't compete with quality debate like that.

That last sentence was not aimed at you. It was directed towards our two new car fanatic members.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: itsbruce on July 31, 2010, 06:39:18 pm
Quote
I can't compete with quality debate like that.

That last sentence was not aimed at you. It was directed towards our two new car fanatic members.

I think he realises that.  It doesn't become any classier for being aimed at newcomers.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: pro_rider on July 31, 2010, 07:04:12 pm
"'give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car'"

are you retarded ?

you undertook a car in moving traffic, he was infront of you and already has his own line.

you did a stupid move undertook a car then expect him to swerve back round you.

if you want to pass cars do so on the right ffs, you are giving cyclists a bad name and riding like a tw4t,  it seems you bate cars and want to video them to post on you tube.

any way I am saying no more , as you clearly have car issues and do not know how to ride a bike.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 31, 2010, 07:06:53 pm
'has his own line'.

The road is not a race track. Grow up, learn to drive, adjust your attitude.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nicknack on July 31, 2010, 07:10:35 pm
Pro-rider of what?

 ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on July 31, 2010, 07:12:52 pm
Quote
I can't compete with quality debate like that.

That last sentence was not aimed at you. It was directed towards our two new car fanatic members.

I think he realises that.  It doesn't become any classier for being aimed at newcomers.

Take a good look at those 'newcomers'. Both car fanatics, neither with any comprehension of what it is like to cycle on the road, both arriving on the forum yesterday, at the same time as abusive comments started being posted on the youtube video concerned. Also at the same time as someone linked the video to a petrolhead forum (http://www.atomic-noodle.com/c12/page6.html) Do not allow yourself to be duped by these two anti-cyclist trolls.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on July 31, 2010, 07:25:15 pm
Pro_rider, you and Jojo are the ones who clearly need some cycle training, and it seems, some driving lessons too.  Tut tut.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: pro_rider on July 31, 2010, 08:32:38 pm
"Take a good look at those 'newcomers'. Both car fanatics, neither with any comprehension of what it is like to cycle on the road"

are you having a laugh, ?

Yes I am a car fanatic, but I am also a cyclist, did you know 50% of people who die on bikes do so because of undertaking cars/vans etc.  it has gotten so bad lorry and van drivers have had to put big stickers on their vans to say DO NOT UNDERTAKE.

ffs, I don't want you to be another one of those, STOP undertaking moving cars, you WILL get knocked off your bike.

you clealry are bating cars, and trolling on sites showing videos of you riding like an arse with no repect to other road users.
YOU don't own the road we all share it.

now go and have a hand shandy making another video to post up to share with your hippy friends :-p
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: JOJO on July 31, 2010, 10:40:41 pm
I'm sorry, I am both an avid car driver and cyclist.  In fact my daily commute is on a bike.
And I have not make ANY offensive comments towards you, YOU have made some very offensive comments towards  both I AND car drivers.

There was nothing wrong in the driving in that video, if you ACTUALLY want to see examples of real bad driving, Flat Eric has some great examples...yours don't not even come close.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: C-3PO on August 01, 2010, 09:06:48 am
A reminder to everyone that we expect standards of excellence in postings. In the words of your mother, if you can't play nicely, don't play at all.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: rogerzilla on August 05, 2010, 11:21:29 am
The Highway Code doesn't make any provision for cyclists to filter on the left (unless there's a cycle lane).  On the other hand, overtaking on the right can be buttock-clenchingly dangerous with oncoming traffic, since there is never a nice 1.5 metres (or an opening door's width) between the cars and the centre line and you end up on the wrong side of the road all the time.

On balance, filtering on the left is usually safer but entirely at your own risk - certainly not worth it at side roads, and you have to be constantly on alert for opening passenger doors.  Or you can sit and wait, but then there's not much point in riding the bike.  Difficult one.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 05, 2010, 11:48:56 am
A bit up thread I put a pic of the Greenway at Highfield Crescent and can report that they have now finished that section, to Gainsborough Drv, with the block work ramping and are now doing the same to the other side of the road.

During an extended utility ride I took a quick ride along the Western Esplanade bike path. Just after entering the lane, heading west from the Pier, a red Fiesta opened it's passenger side doors. Up ahead two girls, 7-9 years old, sprinted towards me but on the footway. Just before me they both decided to run into the bike path. They didn't see me until I had done my emergency stop and both managed to get around me with very shocked looks on their faces. It must have been a mirror of my expression.   :o
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 05, 2010, 12:31:25 pm
The Highway Code doesn't make any provision for cyclists to filter on the left (unless there's a cycle lane).  On the other hand, overtaking on the right can be buttock-clenchingly dangerous with oncoming traffic, since there is never a nice 1.5 metres (or an opening door's width) between the cars and the centre line and you end up on the wrong side of the road all the time.

On balance, filtering on the left is usually safer but entirely at your own risk - certainly not worth it at side roads, and you have to be constantly on alert for opening passenger doors.  Or you can sit and wait, but then there's not much point in riding the bike.  Difficult one.
You are correct that the Highway Code makes no direct mention of passing on the left, however Rule 151 states:

In slow-moving traffic. You should:

reduce the distance between you and the vehicle ahead to maintain traffic flow
never get so close to the vehicle in front that you cannot stop safely
leave enough space to be able to manoeuvre if the vehicle in front breaks down or an emergency vehicle needs to get past
not change lanes to the left to overtake
allow access into and from side roads, as blocking these will add to congestion
be aware of cyclists and motorcyclists who may be passing on either side
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: rogerzilla on August 05, 2010, 01:20:34 pm
The HC is ambiguously written in many places; that could be read as applying to multi-lane roads (e.g. queued on a dual carriageway or motorway) when motorcyclists in particular always filter between lanes.

It would be nice if someone at the DfT could clear up the filtering question once and for all; as it stands I suspect you don't have much comeback if you get doored when overtaking stationary cars on the left.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 05, 2010, 01:24:51 pm
The HC is ambiguously written in many places; that could be read as applying to multi-lane roads (e.g. queued on a dual carriageway or motorway) when motorcyclists in particular always filter between lanes.

It would be nice if someone at the DfT could clear up the filtering question once and for all; as it stands I suspect you don't have much comeback if you get doored when overtaking stationary cars on the left.

In an ordinary road I would pass a stationary vehicle on the right, in slow moving traffic I pass on whichever side has more space.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on August 05, 2010, 01:46:20 pm
On balance, filtering on the left is usually safer but entirely at your own risk - certainly not worth it at side roads, and you have to be constantly on alert for opening passenger doors.  Or you can sit and wait, but then there's not much point in riding the bike.  Difficult one.

Errr no.  Unless you made a typo, and mean filtering on the right.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Access Legal Guy on August 05, 2010, 01:59:48 pm

Hi all,

While there is little in the Highway Code in respect to passing on the left of a vehicle (as the HC is a document that primarily provides information about road traffic legislation and recommendations and as such deals mainly with what is prohibited), there is a lot more guidance that could be found in the Civil Courts.

The Civil Courts, when looking to establish liability/fault see passing on the left or undertaking as a highly dangerous manoeuvre. It tends to take you into a position where nobody else is expecting you to be or more dangerously, cant see you. That's not only the vehicle that you're passing. Having any sort of incident while passing on the left will often result in liability being split as a best case scenario, and not always 50/50.

Not much help I know, but a clear indication that deciding to go left rather than right, or to go left rather than holding back for a few moments can be a no no.

Also, there is no legal requirement on a car to have a side mirror on the left hand side. Your car will pass an MOT with just the internal rear view mirror and a mirror mounted on the right/drivers door/right side panel. Passing to the left of any such vehicle takes you into a huge blind spot!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on August 05, 2010, 02:00:50 pm
If there is a marked cycle lane, then the above would be cast away I would have thought.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: rogerzilla on August 05, 2010, 02:03:32 pm
On balance, filtering on the left is usually safer but entirely at your own risk - certainly not worth it at side roads, and you have to be constantly on alert for opening passenger doors.  Or you can sit and wait, but then there's not much point in riding the bike.  Difficult one.

Errr no.  Unless you made a typo, and mean filtering on the right.

We'll just have to disagree on that one.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Access Legal Guy on August 05, 2010, 02:06:07 pm
If there is a marked cycle lane, then the above would be cast away I would have thought.

yes, if there is a marked cycle lane then the onus is upon other orad users to expect the same to be occupied (with bicycles hopefully)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Regulator on August 05, 2010, 03:57:06 pm
The HC is ambiguously written in many places; that could be read as applying to multi-lane roads (e.g. queued on a dual carriageway or motorway) when motorcyclists in particular always filter between lanes.

It would be nice if someone at the DfT could clear up the filtering question once and for all; as it stands I suspect you don't have much comeback if you get doored when overtaking stationary cars on the left.

My understanding is that the case law indicates that, when filtering either side, if doored the liability is solely with the driver of the motor vehicle*.  Not sure about the other aspects.


Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: spindrift on August 05, 2010, 05:57:31 pm
did you know 50% of people who die on bikes do so because of undertaking cars/vans etc.  

Do you have a source for this claim please?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 05, 2010, 06:45:30 pm
As a heads up: The seafront works now have a heavily signed 20mph speed limit. There is also a contraflow, and available road is much narrower than previously. Consequently there is now only one way to cycle along the Golden 'Mile'. Primary all the way.


      YouTube
         - Broadcast Yourself.
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g0l-EqwqKk)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 05, 2010, 06:54:42 pm
I hope it isn't permanent but at the moment you can't turn right at the bottom of Pier Hill to Western Espl.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: teethgrinder on August 05, 2010, 07:10:44 pm

Not much help I know, but a clear indication that deciding to go left rather than right, or to go left rather than holding back for a few moments can be a no no.


Thanks for that. :thumbsup:

I don't like filtering up the left as it is. It certainly is dodgy and it's worth knowing that if it goes wrong and I survive, then I don't have much of a leg tostand on as far as the law goes.

Another good reason for overtaking instead of undertaking, or just hanging back.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on August 05, 2010, 07:16:01 pm
did you know 50% of people who die on bikes do so because of undertaking cars/vans etc.  

Do you have a source for this claim please?

I think it's wrong.

There was a suppressed government report which indicated that, during a several year spell in London, (87% I think) of women killed on bikes were left-hooked by HGVs. For some reason the figure for men was much lower. Many people interpreted it as an indication that men usually cycle more assertively than women do.

There was a Times article about this, but it's now probably behind a firewall.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: spindrift on August 05, 2010, 07:21:37 pm
I understand the top 3 cycling RTAs are caused by sideswiping, dooring and overtaking and turning left.

Being hit from behind is more common than it ought to be too.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 07, 2010, 02:48:54 pm
Warning to riders on the path.  I suspect that we're seeing the same issue on new roads where the oils are coming out of the tarmac and making the dry path slippery.   (This is why new/resurfaced roads carry the warning signs of "slippery surface").


I nearly trashed a kid last night  >:( >:( :( :( :( :(


Riding a slow bike into a headwind, slower than usual for a commute because the pedestrians were standing on the track and getting in/out of the car, and I'm fully aware of the hazard that the Council have created here*. 

Little kid suddenly ran out in front of me so I hauled on the anchors and shat meself when the bike just locked up and didn't slow.   Fortunately I managed to avoid any collision.

Brake test after brake test for the rest of the ride home, each and every time the bike stopped instantly.  It's a nearly new bike in great condition.  v-brakes etc.

The only thing I can think of is that the surface of the cycle path (now with thick black skid mark) doesn't offer the traction you'd expect.



I rode the rest of the way home on the road instead of the cycle track.  I got abuse from the occupants of two separate cars.  Apparently I should have been on the ***ing cycle path.    >:( >:( >:( >:(




* If we asked them to put parking along the centre white line of a road I'm sure they'd say 'no, it's too dangerous with traffic passing on both sides'.   Why have they put parking between a live carriageway and two way cyclist traffic?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 07, 2010, 03:03:15 pm
Warning to riders on the path.  I suspect that we're seeing the same issue on new roads where the oils are coming out of the tarmac and making the dry path slippery.   (This is why new/resurfaced roads carry the warning signs of "slippery surface").
Was your close call just west of the casino? I saw slick of oil just there when I went by the other day. I was going to use fillthathole to report it but forgot until your post.  :-[
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 07, 2010, 03:06:45 pm
East.  Outside the three shells.   

Where you have to run the gauntlet between the pavement and parked cars.



Please do report the oil slick if it's still there.  (The Council employees are telling me that I'm the only person who has a problem with this facility - apparently everybody else absolutely loves it...   )

I didn't notice the oil slick because I was in the road and being subjected to abuse.   
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 07, 2010, 03:09:41 pm
East.  Outside the three shells. 
That was were the two girls run out in front of me.

Oil slick reported.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 07, 2010, 03:11:54 pm
East.  Outside the three shells. 
That was were the two girls run out in front of me.

It's what we predicted at the cycle group when we saw the plans for the first time just a few days before the construction was completed.

There's gonna be an injury down there sooner or later.


And that's why I'm so annoyed at last night's close call.  I was expecting it.  I was riding accordingly.  It happened.  I reacted, and then found there was no braking traction  >:(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 07, 2010, 03:13:43 pm
And that's why I'm so annoyed at last night's close call.  I was expecting it.  I was riding accordingly.  It happened.  I reacted, and then found there was no braking traction  >:(
Donut (sic) grease I 'spect!  ;)

More likely the Shells delivery van that parks half up the footway and half over the cycle path.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 07, 2010, 03:18:54 pm
Hhhmmm...   good suggestion, but there were no obvious grease marks on the DRY path.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 07, 2010, 03:36:17 pm
Just got back from a quick ride up to Leigh and back. Got the following on the way:


First, this is new, yours Nutty?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/10c-1.jpg)

Then this:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/10b.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/10a.jpg)

While I was taking the second photo of the coach a police car drove past and took zero notice.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 07, 2010, 03:39:58 pm
Where do the regular buses pull up to set down and pick up? I haven't seen one on the front since the path went in.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 07, 2010, 03:46:45 pm
Just got back from a quick ride up to Leigh and back. Got the following on the way:


First, this is new, yours Nutty?

...



Yup, that looks like mine.  You can see where I swung over to the right to avoid the girl.


Re the coach, if you look at the designs for the path it has lowered kerbs at each of the bus stops, I presumed it was to allow the buses to stop without causing obstruction to the traffic.   I did email the following question to the project on the 18th April but haven't had a reply yet, despite chasing for it.

Quote
I note that there are three bus stops shown with 25m of 20mm kerb.  I
recall from last time I dared take a bike to the area that to the east
of the Casino was a short section of single yellow line instead of a
double yellow line.

These two combined lead me to further questions.
      * How many buses are expected to use the stops?
      * What traffic orders are proposed for the stops?
      * How is it proposed to stop non scheduled buses from stopping,
        private buses with day trippers, etc?   (They will stop for
        longer than a scheduled service.)
      *
      * Will the buses be stopping on the cycle track?  (Implied by the
        dropped kerb)
      * If so, how are cyclists expected to pass a stationary bus?
      *
      * Will the buses be stopping on the carriageway?
      * If so how will traffic pass? (In particular the private 56 seat
        coaches who may spend a long time loading or unloading on the
        narrowed carriageway).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 07, 2010, 03:55:15 pm
The coach wasn't dropping off or picking up, it was parked there. There's about fifteen minutes between the two photos.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 07, 2010, 04:05:58 pm
The coach wasn't dropping off or picking up, it was parked there. There's about fifteen minutes between the two photos.

Contact the council and ask them the questions I asked them in April.   How are cyclists expected to travel east on this facility?  Cross the road, cycle 25 metres, cross the road again, lift the bike up the kerb onto the track and carry on?

I hadn't realised when down there but looking at the first photo of the coach, is that the yellow bus stop marking still in the carriageway?    The coach driver could so easily have stopped at the bus stop and inside those yellow marks... completely blocking the cycle path!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 07, 2010, 05:23:17 pm
Ok, this is what I'm sending CCd to the CTC, Cycling England, and Cllr Assenheim (cllr for health and safety)::


Dear Councillor Flewitt,

Having found Southend's Western Esplanade cycle lane completely blocked this afternoon (Sat 07/08/10) by a coach parked in the cycle track, and having my own safety severely compromised by this dangerous parking, I wonder if you might answer a few questions for me regarding the bus stops along the Western esplanade cycle track:

 
How is it proposed to stop non scheduled buses from stopping?
Will buses/coaches be stopping on the cycle track regularly?
If so, how are cyclists expected to pass a stationary bus or coach?
Will buses/coaches be stopping on the carriageway?
If so how will traffic pass?

As you can see in the attached photographs the cycle track was completely blocked for some time (there was at least fifteen minutes between the two photographs being taken). How are cyclists traveling east supposed to pass such a dangerous obstruction? They cannot ride in the road because they are on the wrong side of the road. they cannot ride on the pavement because riding on the pavement is illegal (and even if they wanted to there is no pavement at this point on the seafront).

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/CycleTracka.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/CycleTrackb.jpg)

I would also ask what the council proposes to do about all the waste bins, concrete framed benches, concrete plant pots, signs etc. along the length of the Western Esplanade cycle track which are ALL extremely close to the cycle track, much closer in fact than the recommended minimum distance of one metre, in some cases less than 20cm. This is a serious hazard to cyclists, should they have to swerve or fall to avoid car doors opening into the cycle track, children running into the cycle track, pedestrians in the cycle track motorcycles using the cycle track etc. (ALL of which I have encountered in recent weeks), colliding with any of these obstacles could cause serious injury.

Also what does the council propose to prevent cars, vans, coaches, motorcycles etc. from entering the cycle track? The double yellow lines, unbroken white line, and two inch kerb have completely failed to do this. Also the council said signage would keep the cycle track clear of pedestrians, this also is a total failure.

Please see the videos linked which demonstrate just a few of the dangers cyclists are being confronted with on a daily basis along the Western Esplanade cycle track:


      YouTube
            - ‪Cycle UNfriendly Town‬&lrm;
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL6XRJL8gSs)


      YouTube
            - ‪Pedestrians‬&lrm;
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF1EpgPC0cY)


I await your earliest response,

Sincerely,
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on August 07, 2010, 05:31:59 pm
having my own safety severely compromised by this dangerous parking,


Good letter, but is this bit really true?  I think it's OTT and will lose effectiveness for you.  That coach parking there is annoying, certainly, but I'm not sure how it would affect my safety at all riding past there.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 07, 2010, 05:34:29 pm
but I'm not sure how it would affect my safety at all riding past there.
You'd have to filter on the left!  :P
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on August 07, 2010, 05:47:00 pm
What, like this guy?


      YouTube
            - ‪I thought this cyclist was going to be dead...‬&lrm;
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12fMTAQyXTI)

;)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 07, 2010, 06:25:04 pm
Good letter Clandy.  Possible re-wording on Wendy's point though?

having my own safety severely compromised by this dangerous parking,


Good letter, but is this bit really true?  I think it's OTT and will lose effectiveness for you.  That coach parking there is annoying, certainly, but I'm not sure how it would affect my safety at all riding past there.

His safety is compromised.  As above I rode in the road last night and had abuse from two drivers, fortunately only verbal (although I have had reports of physical abuse to a road cyclist along there recently).

It is impossible to cycle on the path thanks to the obstruction.

If he cycles on the road then he's at risk of abuse, plus if heading east would have to cross the road - which we're told is a dangerous activity.


How to word this in a manner that would be understood though?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 07, 2010, 06:34:23 pm
I see the cycle lane is mentioned on longpier this month ->   YOUR VIEW: Should our seafronts be kept ‘bike free’? : Longpier – News, Sport and Features from Southend-on-Sea, Westcliff, Rochford, Leigh and more (http://www.longpier.com/2010/08/your-view-should-seafronts-be-kept-bike-free/)

Quote
Colette Kemp from Cycle Southend – the scheme set up to get more people riding on their bikes in the borough – told longpier.com:

......

“However the new cycle lanes we have installed are great.  They are made to European standards and give cyclists a safe way to enjoy the route.  Of course riders must be observant, as they would be on the road”.

I wonder what European standards these are?   As at the beginning of this thread the new lanes completely ignore many parts of LTN 2/08 (http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/ltnotes/ltn208.pdf), which is the UK guideline which all cycle facilities should adhere to.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 07, 2010, 06:57:56 pm
I see the cycle lane is mentioned on longpier this month ->   YOUR VIEW: Should our seafronts be kept ‘bike free’? : Longpier – News, Sport and Features from Southend-on-Sea, Westcliff, Rochford, Leigh and more (http://www.longpier.com/2010/08/your-view-should-seafronts-be-kept-bike-free/)

Quote
Colette Kemp from Cycle Southend – the scheme set up to get more people riding on their bikes in the borough – told longpier.com:

......

“However the new cycle lanes we have installed are great.  They are made to European standards and give cyclists a safe way to enjoy the route.  Of course riders must be observant, as they would be on the road”.

I wonder what European standards these are?   As at the beginning of this thread the new lanes completely ignore many parts of LTN 2/08 (http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/ltnotes/ltn208.pdf), which is the UK guideline which all cycle facilities should adhere to.

I have commented, but don't know if it will pass moderation.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 07, 2010, 07:19:45 pm
Well blow me down! Already had a reply from Cllr Flewitt acknowledging receipt of the email and saying he will be looking into the issues raised and will be getting in touch once he has done so.

That's a bit more on the ball than his predecessor.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: woollypigs on August 07, 2010, 09:13:23 pm

YouTube - ‪Cycle UNfriendly Town‬&lrm;  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL6XRJL8gSs)

You forgot the lamppost/pedestrian crossing light in the middle of your lane on the cycle lane, at 1:05.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 07, 2010, 09:14:57 pm

YouTube - ‪Cycle UNfriendly Town‬&lrm;  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL6XRJL8gSs)

You forgot the lamppost/pedestrian crossing light in the middle of your lane on the cycle lane, at 1:05.


      YouTube
            - ‪Pedestrian Crossing Beacon in cycle lane‬&lrm;
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAx3Z6Pwtpg)
 ;)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 08, 2010, 09:11:21 am
I see the cycle lane is mentioned on longpier this month ->   YOUR VIEW: Should our seafronts be kept ‘bike free’? : Longpier – News, Sport and Features from Southend-on-Sea, Westcliff, Rochford, Leigh and more (http://www.longpier.com/2010/08/your-view-should-seafronts-be-kept-bike-free/)

Quote
Colette Kemp from Cycle Southend – the scheme set up to get more people riding on their bikes in the borough – told longpier.com:

......

“However the new cycle lanes we have installed are great.  They are made to European standards and give cyclists a safe way to enjoy the route.  Of course riders must be observant, as they would be on the road”.

I wonder what European standards these are?   As at the beginning of this thread the new lanes completely ignore many parts of LTN 2/08 (http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/ltnotes/ltn208.pdf), which is the UK guideline which all cycle facilities should adhere to.

Here's an interesting quote from the Longpier piece:

Colette Kemp, “We also have to enter negoitations with the train company, who own that stretch of footpath at the back of Chalkwell Station, so it will be a long process”

If the cinder track is indeed owned by C2C, then that makes it private property surely? In which case who is enforcing the 'No Cycling' rule along there?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on August 08, 2010, 09:15:56 am
A good question. I'm a bit surprised, if the rail company owns the cinder path, that they don't put a toll in as exists on the Mawddach Estuary bridge. I suspect that the railway down't own the path, but the land immediately adjacent to it, of which, for most of the path's length, there is plenty to spare.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on August 08, 2010, 11:44:09 am
I suspect that the railway down't own the path, but the land immediately adjacent to it, of which, for most of the path's length, there is plenty to spare.
I have been told, at the cycle forum, that network rail (or whoever) do indeed own the cinder path, and the sea wall along that stretch which is why it has been "maintained" over the years purely by pouring tar onto it as it is the cheapest method. I suspect that there is also a public right of way and because of this it can be subject to byelaws.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 08, 2010, 12:21:21 pm
The OS map does show this as a public footpath.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 11, 2010, 02:24:14 pm

Exactly that.  This is a prime place for primary.

It astounds me that anyone posting on a cycle forum can't see what is wrong with stupid driving like that.

Rule 163.  There's even a picture for those many drivers who can't read.

Clarion, you are forgetting the First Rule of the Motorist:

All cyclists MUST be overtaken.
What's the problem? Smiley deliberately omited

Ah yes, that rule!


      YouTube
            - ‪Answers on a postcard...‬&lrm;
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oBnl6xAxc8)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: hellymedic on August 11, 2010, 02:34:27 pm

Exactly that.  This is a prime place for primary.

It astounds me that anyone posting on a cycle forum can't see what is wrong with stupid driving like that.

Rule 163.  There's even a picture for those many drivers who can't read.

Clarion, you are forgetting the First Rule of the Motorist:

All cyclists MUST be overtaken.
What's the problem? Smiley deliberately omited

Ah yes, that rule!


      YouTube
            - ‪Answers on a postcard...‬&lrm;
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tchjbYc5k3k)

QED!   ;) ;D
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 11, 2010, 11:15:23 pm
I went for a little spin along the seafront this morning to see how things are going with the new path on Western Esplanade.

The line painting wagon was there and they were repainting the parallel parking bays between adventure island and three shells.

The line next to the hashing is now a double width solid white line rather than the original dashed white line.

Video on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/user/2FlatErics#p/a/u/0/BNc3OUIJdcQ)

Have the council changed the marking because they care about cyclists and want to make it clear to drivers that they should park in the bay and not on the hash markings?

Or could it be that the council has realised they probably couldn't enforce any tickets they issued for parking on the hash marks when there was only a dashed line?

Call me a cynic if you like but I suspect that the changes are led by a potential loss of revenue from parking fines rather than careing for cyclists.


Hhmm...    screenshot from the stage 3 safety Audit which I received today.

Quote
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/Southend%20Cycle%20Town/markings.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 11, 2010, 11:21:11 pm
Hhmm...    screenshot from the stage 3 safety Audit which I received today.
Isn't the audit supposed to be done "before" the path was laid so that the engineers could make it safe in the first place?  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 11, 2010, 11:28:43 pm
Hhmm...    screenshot from the stage 3 safety Audit which I received today.
Isn't the audit supposed to be done "before" the path was laid so that the engineers could make it safe in the first place?  :facepalm:

no.

3 stages.

As I understand it.

Stage 1 - based on design and to correct design.
Stage 2 - based on design as being initially laid.
Stage 3a - based on completed construction of design (where we are)
Stage 3b - 1 year later, based on usage/accident stats/correspondence/etc


If any highways engineers are reading who would like to fine tune my understanding, please feel free.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 11, 2010, 11:33:00 pm
no.
OK.  :thumbsup:

Does it mention what has been slagged off about the path here and elsewhere?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 12, 2010, 08:05:13 pm
Does it mention what has been slagged off about the path here and elsewhere?
Yes, pretty much!
Will anything be done?  ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 12, 2010, 08:08:53 pm

Will anything be done?  ::-)

My money is on SBC pleading poverty. £25million for road projects around the town, sweet FA to make safe a crap cycle facility.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 12, 2010, 09:19:49 pm
Does it mention what has been slagged off about the path here and elsewhere?
Yes, pretty much!
Will anything be done?  ::-)

Some points missing from there, I don't know whether missed or not thought to be an issue.   I did note though that the site visit lasted for just one hour 35 minutes, on a Thursday lunchtime in June; I wonder what it would have said had it been on a busy sunny bank holiday weekend?

I do think that there's a minor difference between the experiences of those of us who use it daily, and those who visit for just a short time.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 12, 2010, 09:32:34 pm
From the stage 1 and stage 2 reports: 'The provision of a new two-way segregated 2.5m wide cycle track;'


I'll go down there with a tape measure, but I'm pretty sure that cycle track isn't even 1.5m wide (less with the white line painted in it), let alone 2.5m.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 12, 2010, 10:08:17 pm
I measured it during construction.   It is exactly 2.5m if measured from the bottom of the old kerbstones to the edge of the road.  i.e. that 2.5m includes the top surface of the new kerbstones...   of course you can't ride on them, plus there's a white line painted at the edge of the cycle track quite a way in from the road...   meaning the usable track has to be less than 2.5m wide.

I think upthread we commented on the designs showing a usable track width of 1.9m, so not wide enough to safely pass cyclists (guidelines comment on a cyclist being 1m wide, and many cycle trailers are around that width).

edit:  Ah yes...  Southend Cycle Town - part 2 (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=31115.msg593226#msg593226)

2.5m minus the 0.5m for line minus the 0.2m for the kerb upstand equals 1.8m usable width.
This needs to be highlighted

1.8 metres in total! Not 1.8m eastbound and another 1.8m westbound.

Please be clear about this.  Don't be vague.

It's 0.9m eastbound and 0.9m westbound.

If there is a central divider lane painted (I'm not certain about that at present) then that will further reduce the widths!



If there is to be a formal opening ceremony I do hope families attend.  Aren't the child trailers 1m in width?  :demon: :demon: :demon:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 13, 2010, 12:25:09 pm
As you may remember I reported, via fillthathole, an oil slick just west of the casino. Nothing has been done about it and it's now spread. I advise you to avoid this when wet!
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TGUpemn0x_I/AAAAAAAAF1k/2Gc9B4qosu4/s640/p8132670.jpg)

A fresh load of carp courtesy of the rubbish collectors.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TGUpgTlz6ZI/AAAAAAAAF1w/NFPb0NZUPms/s640/p8132673.jpg)

The offending vehicle?
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TGUrZ5sIAqI/AAAAAAAAF2M/l9QajXofxoo/s640/p5172439.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 13, 2010, 12:31:41 pm
I do hope you've sent those pictures to Cllr Flewitt DtB!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 13, 2010, 12:39:34 pm

I couldn't add them to the hazard report, Fillthathole says that it has been reported though.
I think that rubbish truck stops there Mon-Fri and collects those large wheelie bins. I don't see why it can't stop on the parking and drag the bins over.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 13, 2010, 03:38:47 pm
As well as the dust cart the Casino sewage tank emptying lorry parks there in the mornings.  I haven't gone past since the track was built, but I'd be interested to know where that parks and drapes its hoses now...   on the path or on the road?  either way the track will have obstruction.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 13, 2010, 03:48:56 pm

I couldn't add them to the hazard report, Fillthathole says that it has been reported though.
I think that rubbish truck stops there Mon-Fri and collects those large wheelie bins. I don't see why it can't stop on the parking and drag the bins over.

I would still email the council directly. If the refuse truck is the source of whatever is on the track, then it could pose a serious health risk. Many cycles don't have mudguards so that stuff could be spraying up into riders' faces.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 13, 2010, 04:04:48 pm
As well as the dust cart the Casino sewage tank emptying lorry parks there in the mornings.  I haven't gone past since the track was built, but I'd be interested to know where that parks and drapes its hoses now...   on the path or on the road?  either way the track will have obstruction.

Yup, have called a contact who commutes along there in the early mornings.   The sewaqe tanker does park on the lane.  Usually somewhere between 06:00 and 06:30, not certain of the days but I recall it always used to be Friday (I presume ready for the friday night and weekend bog rush).  They said that it's usually parked for an hour to an hour and a half while it does its stuff.

Therefore this oil could be dripping from the pump engine, or it's something nasty leaking from the hoses  :sick:


Any locals want to try to get a photo?   (I wouldn't normally be up at that time in that area at the moment)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 13, 2010, 04:43:00 pm
I think Cllr Assenheim would be very interested in those photographs and explanation. He is councillor responsible for H&S in the borough.

CllrAssenheim <CllrAssenheim@southend.gov.uk>

I would also CC it to Cllr Flewitt,

CllrFlewitt <CllrFlewitt@southend.gov.uk>
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 15, 2010, 03:03:53 pm
Clandy If you want to email the photos to Cllr Assenheim feel free, ICBA.

The Greenway, Highfield Crescent section, is almost done. I think though that there should be a keep clear sign so that queuing traffic doesn't block the entrance/exit from the Gainsborough Drv./Highfield Cres. area.

Looking to the east.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TGfyjaxAP3I/AAAAAAAAF4E/89LMoyCcsTA/s640/p8152680.jpg)

The new track just needs a top dressing.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TGfyjR2X_hI/AAAAAAAAF4I/cKGwofaZ7S0/s640/p8152681.jpg)

To Springfield Drive.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TGfyjObfUdI/AAAAAAAAF4A/GQOw7MlG9dU/s640/p8152679.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on August 18, 2010, 12:13:30 pm
A bit of a tangent, but relevant to this thread.

I've just walked round the park with the dog. There's been a whole load of work going on around the lakes, whose perimiters were 75% earth / grass. The 25% has for a long time been asphalt path.

Now the other 75% is being surfaced as well. Some of it is with some sort of compound which looked to me like a hard surface. There were some besuited, hivizzed types discussing the work when I was there so I interrupted their meeting to ask about the work. How are anglers going to get their rod rests into a hard surface? The Head besuited hivizzed honcho explained that it was not actually a hard surface but was loose and anglers will be able to penetrate the surface with a rod rest. What about the fact that there's a hard core base? Well, there's been consultation.

Also, this new surface extends right around the back of the lake which used to be rather wild an interesting. Now it's got a surfaced path and has lost its wildness. Oh, that was needed because there were so many tree roots that people could fall and hurt themselves and sue the Council. So Hockley Woods (public woodland about 5 miles from Southend) can expect urban-style paths in the future to stop people suing the Council? Quite possibly, yes.

So expect the Pembrokeshire Coastal Path to have a hand rail fitted any time soon.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 18, 2010, 01:53:43 pm

      YouTube
            - Bus In Cycle lane
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNQyq56-uD8)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 18, 2010, 02:18:15 pm

      YouTube
            - Bus In Cycle lane
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNQyq56-uD8)
I would hazard a guess that it stops at the bus stop, although the road markings were obliterated by the cycle path. It stops on the cycle path because it's got to stop somewhere and stopping on the cycle path is a safer option than stopping on the road and having lemmings passengers crossing over the cycle path.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on August 18, 2010, 10:34:37 pm
A bit of a tangent, but relevant to this thread.

I've just walked round the park with the dog. There's been a whole load of work going on around the lakes, whose perimiters were 75% earth / grass. The 25% has for a long time been asphalt path.

Now the other 75% is being surfaced as well. Some of it is with some sort of compound which looked to me like a hard surface. There were some besuited, hivizzed types discussing the work when I was there so I interrupted their meeting to ask about the work. How are anglers going to get their rod rests into a hard surface? The Head besuited hivizzed honcho explained that it was not actually a hard surface but was loose and anglers will be able to penetrate the surface with a rod rest. What about the fact that there's a hard core base? Well, there's been consultation.

Also, this new surface extends right around the back of the lake which used to be rather wild an interesting. Now it's got a surfaced path and has lost its wildness. Oh, that was needed because there were so many tree roots that people could fall and hurt themselves and sue the Council. So Hockley Woods (public woodland about 5 miles from Southend) can expect urban-style paths in the future to stop people suing the Council? Quite possibly, yes.

So expect the Pembrokeshire Coastal Path to have a hand rail fitted any time soon.
Best thing would be to fell all the trees, (so people can't trip), drain the lake, (so people can't drown) and fill it all in with a nice level asphalt, people friendly surface!  Just like they're doing to Warrior Square. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 20, 2010, 11:44:06 am
Dear Cllrs Flewitt and Assenheim,

For some time cyclists using the seafront have been puzzled by the sticky, slippery, slick on the cycle track outside the casino on Western Esplanade.

It would now appear it is raw sewage dripped by refuse vehicles parking in the cycle lane while emptying bins and pumping out the casinos' sewage tanks. Other cyclists have reported seeing a sewage truck at around 6.00am to 6.30am on Fridays, parked in the cycle lane with a hose across the pavement as it pumps out sewage from the casino. There is absolutely no need for refuse and sewage trucks to stop in the cycle lane at this time of day as the central car parking is virtually empty, and if necessary vehicles could pull onto the pavement right next to the casino so hoses are not running across the pavement and cycle lane.

I trust the council will now send a clean up crew to clear the sewage slick? Please note that after several weeks it has now spread to cover quite a large area either side of where the sewage is being dripped. In my opinion this sewage slick constitutes a serious health hazard to every single cyclist using the Western Esplanade cycle lane, even more so if their cycle has no mudguards (I.E. the majority) as the sewage could be sprayed up into their faces.

Please see attached photographs taken this morning (Friday 20/08/10).

Regards,


<etc.>

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/sewage4.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/sewage3.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/sewage2.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/sewage1.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 20, 2010, 12:28:21 pm
Email sent at 11.48.59 this morning. Reply received at 11.50.46 this morning:

I am dealing with this urgently.
Cllr Mark Flewitt



It seems Cllr Flewitt IS very much more on the ball than his predecessor!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 20, 2010, 01:03:01 pm
I emailed Cllr Flewitt thanking him for his prompt reply. I have now received the following:

You are welcome,

A site inspection is currently in progress.

More-as I am informed.

Best wishes
Mark
Cllr Flewitt
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on August 20, 2010, 01:23:52 pm
Well done Clandy.

Lets hope Cllr Flewitt is as good as his word
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: SlowCoach on August 20, 2010, 01:38:08 pm
A site inspection is currently in progress.
now I really am impressed by the speed of response. Can we borrow your Councilor Flewitt up here in Durham - we could use him. The very fact that he has organised an inspection so quickly bodes well for some action for you.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 20, 2010, 01:43:29 pm
He does seem much better at his job than his predecessor, Cllr Anna 'the Chainsaw'* Waite, who rarely answered emails.


*as she is known locally for her penchant for cutting down trees and building roads.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 20, 2010, 06:10:08 pm
Ok, I have now had a response from Stephen Crowther (Group Manager Waste & Street Scene)

Dear Mr …….,
 
Thank you for your e-mail addressed to Councillor Mark Flewitt who has asked me to investigate the incident you reported and to provide you with a direct response.
 
Firstly, I can inform you that a site visit was undertaken early this afternoon by on of the Council’s Street Scene Officers. At the time of the visit there did not appear to be any signs of spillage found at this location. However, the liquid residue could have possibly dried out as it was an hour or so since you first reported this and our subsequent visit.
 
From the photographs that you provided it would appear that it was in fact a Commercial Refuse Vehicle that was collecting general waste from the euro-bins at the Casino this morning and not a Sewage Collection Vehicle. Unfortunately, it is quite common that all waste receptacles do hold some residual liquid waste that does sometimes seep out during the collection process. However, the refuse company who collects the waste should clear up any spillage that they make as a result of their operations. I can advise that I have already addressed this matter with E&B Waste, who is the company concerned and made them aware of this incident. The manager has assured me that he will discuss this matter with the collection crew to ensure that any residual liquid waste that is spilt is washed down in future.
 
With regards to your suggestion to park vehicles on the footpath or the central parking areas for collection purposes, I can advise the following:-
 
- Parking on the footpath would be potentially dangerous to pedestrians and would also cause damage to the footpath due to the weight of the vehicle and the footpath not being strengthened to take the weight of a 20-25 tonne vehicle.
 
- Parking on the central parking area would not be practicable for either collection operations as the sewage drainage pipe would also block the road as well as the footpath and cycle lane and it would also be operationally unsafe for operatives and road users to wheel the waste receptacles across the roadway to the central parking area to be emptied.
 
I am aware that the cycle path will be temporarily obstructed as a result of waste collection operations, which is something that we would not want, however, this obstruction will be for no more than several minutes at any time and the business is entitled to have both its general waste & sewage collected. However, I will ensure that the Street Scene Officer for this area monitors this closely over the coming weeks to ensure that the company that collects waste & sewage are acting in a proper manner.
 
Yours sincerely,
 
Steven Crowther - Group Manager Waste & Street Scene


My reply to that was as follows:

Dear Mr Crowther,

You say there were no signs of spillage. Did you visit the correct location? Please see attached photographs which I took this afternoon at 3.50pm. (The photographs' exif data will verify this):

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/sewage7.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/sewage6.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/sewage5.jpg)

As you can see, there is actually a great deal of evidence of spilled sewage. Regarding the sewage collection vehicle this has been witnessed on several Friday mornings between 6.00am and 6.30am parked on the cycle lane while pumping out sewage from the casino. I am very concerned about this filth being left on the cycle lane surface. This is a hazard to cyclists' health and should be cleaned up. As soon as it rains this stuff will become liquid again and will spray up into cyclists' faces.

Regarding parking on the footpath being dangerous to pedestrians and damaging to the footpath.... parking in the cycle path is just as dangerous to cyclists and just as damaging to the cycle lane which also was not built to take 20 - 25 ton vehicles. This is evidenced in the corrugation of the cycle lane surface which was caused when the seawall contractors drove a much lighter dump truck along it. As for the lane only being blocked for 'a few minutes at a time', this morning the lane was blocked for over twenty minutes. Perhaps you could advise east bound cyclists how they are to pass the truck and this filth hazard, they cannot mount the pavement as that is illegal, they cannot use the road as they are on the wrong side of the road.


Sincerely,

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 21, 2010, 07:40:57 am
Was the spreading oil slick not mentioned?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 22, 2010, 10:10:30 am
A pleasant pootle along the Greenway and Western Espl.

A drain at the end of the Highfield Crescent, west side, section!  :facepalm:
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/THDm-2-V1YI/AAAAAAAAF6Q/YmQxqUSiFOU/s640/p8222689.jpg)

Might it be replaced with one of these?
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/THDm_fhIsxI/AAAAAAAAF6U/oE4At3eSl-o/s640/p8222693.jpg)

The path is going to be pea shingled. ATM it's OK on the straight section, as most of it is, but this corner will be dodgy while the shingle is loose.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/THDnAFJEBBI/AAAAAAAAF6c/vTdPrdZRJmo/s640/p8222701.jpg)

I rode west from Lifstan Way. Plenty of other cyclists both ways but most seemed to be on the Western Espl. side.
Fresh spillage and broken crockery sherds outside the Casino! The oil slick is still evident and will be lethal when wet!
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/THDoTUlQNKI/AAAAAAAAF64/ZvE0qq3Czyw/s640/p8222700.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 23, 2010, 08:45:23 pm
The path is going to be pea shingled. ATM it's OK on the straight section, as most of it is, but this corner will be dodgy while the shingle is loose.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/THDnAFJEBBI/AAAAAAAAF6c/vTdPrdZRJmo/s640/p8222701.jpg)

OMG - How moronic do you have to be to be a cycle path designer?

I rode home this way tonight.

That's loose pea shingle poured over a firm tarmac base.  It's going to be dodgy there until all the shingle is swept from the path by passing pedestrians/cyclists/etc.

I was on the Airnimal (small wheels).  The rolling resistance of the path is now high when compared to the previous tarmac, good for training but not good for using a bicycle to get around.  Braking and cornering traction is non-existent.  :facepalm:


I'm not certain how easy it will be to push pushchairs etc along there now.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 23, 2010, 08:52:26 pm
That is insane! Do these people go out of their way to find the least cycle friendly spec?

Here is the reply to my last email re: the filth on the cycle track outside Maxims Casino:

Dear Mr ******,
 
Thank you for your e-mail.
 
I can inform you that I personally visited the Casino early Friday evening and met with the duty manager. I showed him the area in question and he stated that he will arrange for the area to be cleared. He also assured me that he will raise this matter with the appropriate personnel to prevent any recurrence.
 
As I stated previously we will also monitor this closely over the coming weeks to ensure that they comply.
 
Steven Crowther - Group Manager Waste & Street Scene
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 23, 2010, 09:14:07 pm
I was on my brommie at the time and had a dig around with the toe of my shoe. While the top is loose the bottom layer is stuck firm.
I think the shingle has been stuck down and it's just that they throw on too much to make sure the shingle covers the track. The same as they do with the local B roads, a bitumen glue and then gravel rolled into the bitumen.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 23, 2010, 11:07:24 pm
I'll have a closer look tomorrow then, before ranting at the council.

I was more focussed on staying upright and not falling off the bike that was sliding sideways, and also noting the clear tyre tracks already on the bend where the gravel was obviously getting swept away.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: David Martin on August 24, 2010, 09:44:29 am
I'll have a closer look tomorrow then, before ranting at the council.

I was more focussed on staying upright and not falling off the bike that was sliding sideways, and also noting the clear tyre tracks already on the bend where the gravel was obviously getting swept away.

Were there any warning signs? Contractors somehow forget to warn cyclists that they are doing works (I once contacted the council to tell them that someone had stolen one of the cycle paths. Contractors had removed the top prior to relaying it but there were no warning signs)

..d
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 24, 2010, 09:48:22 am
Were there any warning signs?
No!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 24, 2010, 09:51:06 am
Rode in to work that way this morning.  Had a huge slidey skid right around that corner, and also had a good rummage.

Yes the bottom layer of the shingle does appear to be bedded into the soft tarmac*, but I think that once "bedded in" and the loose stuff gone it'll really look bad.  It's also worth noting that when they built it they left around a 10mm gap between the top of the tarmac and the top of the shuttering/manholes.  This gravel just about fills that 10mm.   I really can't see that they intend for the stuff to be swept up once bedded in.  (Plus the bedding in on B roads relies on the weight of the traffic to do the work, this won't work on a footpath/cyclepath).




*(tarmac that was soft enough to dig out by fingernail in the chill air of the morning!)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 24, 2010, 09:52:25 am
Were there any warning signs?
No!

And even when you know it's dangerous and ride slowly, you still lock up and skid uncontrollably when the elderly lady steps out from behind the blind corner.

Fortunately I stayed upright, there was no collision, and we had a polite and jokey conversation.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 24, 2010, 10:19:29 am
Del, what day did you first notice this pea shingle?  I can see the photo was posted back on Thursday, but how long had it been down before that?

I'm hoping that they'll be back again soon to put a clear binder on top of the shingle, but would have expected that to have been applied soon after they put the shingle down.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 24, 2010, 10:28:18 am
Del, what day did you first notice this pea shingle?  I can see the photo was posted back on Thursday, but how long had it been down before that?

The day of the picture, Sunday, is the first time I saw it but I have no time as to when it was laid.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on August 24, 2010, 02:00:00 pm
A couple of items in the Echo today. Including an editorial asking why the council didn't consult local cyclists before building the "dangerous" Western Esplanade cycle path!   ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 24, 2010, 02:30:32 pm
A couple of items in the Echo today. Including an editorial asking why the council didn't consult local cyclists before building the "dangerous" Western Esplanade cycle path!   ::-)

I'm curious as to what has brought on this editorial. Has someone been hurt? I saw someone under a blanket being attended by a couple of cyclists and a foreshore inspector the other day. Wonder if it's linked?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 24, 2010, 02:52:44 pm
I certainly hope that nobody has been hurt, despite our fears that it is going to happen.




Changing tack slightly from the seafront, have you been down Baxter Avenue recently?    They've burnt off the double yellow lines and put in "business parking permit holders only" bays.   So much for a cycle town and workplace travel plans... :facepalm:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 24, 2010, 02:57:16 pm
I certainly hope that nobody has been hurt, despite our fears that it is going to happen.
A girl, unsure about the age, ran into the path of three cyclists. One braked hard and went over the bars hitting the girl, the girl is OK! The cyclist has a broken elbow.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: alexb on August 24, 2010, 03:00:56 pm
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/sewage7.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/sewage6.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/sewage5.jpg)

Clearly I'm not in Southend, but this looks like the general skog that pours of out council refuse trucks when they collect the bins. Of course it could be sewage as well. Either way not pleasant.

Are you sure it's oil? There's an awfully large slick and in the photos there's no sign of the oily sheen you'd expect to see.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 24, 2010, 03:05:09 pm
I certainly hope that nobody has been hurt, despite our fears that it is going to happen.
A girl, unsure about the age, ran into the path of three cyclists. One braked hard and went over the bars hitting the girl, the girl is OK! The cyclist has a broken elbow.

Bugger.   Well we told the Council that would happen before the end of summer.

I hate being proved right :(  :'(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 24, 2010, 03:06:03 pm
Are you sure it's oil? There's an awfully large slick and in the photos there's no sign of the oily sheen you'd expect to see.
Yes, it's definitely oil. It's been spread by the traffic, including the lorries that pull onto that spot, and water beads on it's surface.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on August 24, 2010, 03:31:00 pm
Todays E.Echo has a piece about a cyclist trying to avoid a young girl who wandered onto the cycle lane on seafront.
Seems that the Evening Echo is questioning the safety of the lane. Again no on-line yet.

Cross post with Fatbloke.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 24, 2010, 03:35:36 pm
I've just bought the paper copy.   Interesting snippet from the editorial.

Quote
The council will gain best insight if it listens to constructive suggestions from the people who use the routes on a regular basis.

Cyclists, for their part, need to do more than complain, they need to come up with practical solutions


Well the council has singularly failed to listen to any of the suggestions we've made to date. 

For the last ten years I've been offering to help, even down to the offer of reviewing their draft plans at design phase (as we're supposed to be doing at the cycle group meetings).  Instead they push ahead with whatever they feel is best, leaving us with no option but to contact them "as a complaint" with regards they've constructed.


As for this seafront path, let's just go back to page 1 of this thread and remind ourselves of how many LTN2/08 guidelines have been ignored in the construction of this path.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 24, 2010, 03:40:59 pm
I've just bought the paper copy.   Interesting snippet from the editorial.

Quote
The council will gain best insight if it listens to constructive suggestions from the people who use the routes on a regular basis.

Cyclists, for their part, need to do more than complain, they need to come up with practical solutions


Well the council has singularly failed to listen to any of the suggestions we've made to date. 

For the last ten years I've been offering to help, even down to the offer of reviewing their draft plans at design phase (as we're supposed to be doing at the cycle group meetings).  Instead they push ahead with whatever they feel is best, leaving us with no option but to contact them "as a complaint" with regards they've constructed.


As for this seafront path, let's just go back to page 1 of this thread and remind ourselves of how many LTN2/08 guidelines have been ignored in the construction of this path.

That would make a very interesting email to the Echo.

It is very clear that over the course of this year the council has completely ignored cyclist, motorist, and pedestrian concerns over this path, and just ploughed ahead regardless. Now the chickens are coming home to roost.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on August 24, 2010, 03:44:32 pm
Mark Flewitt, councillor responsible for transport and planning said
"I cant accept liability on behalf of the the council for any accident  that happens on the cycle lane. But I am happy to investigate matters that come to my attention"

Oh well.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 25, 2010, 01:18:30 pm
Story is now online: Call for clear lines on Southend's new cycle path (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8350293.Call_for_clear_lines_on_new_Southend_cycle_path/)

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on August 26, 2010, 12:11:27 pm
Todays Echo there is going to be new signs added along the route to make it clear where the cycle path is.
Not sure if thats on line yet.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 26, 2010, 12:26:05 pm
I saw that.

Sadly I doubt signs will make any difference.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Andrij on August 26, 2010, 12:49:30 pm
Sounds like Southend has chosen the perfect time to put up more signs:

BBC News - Councils urged to remove unnecessary street signs (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11092590)
 
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 26, 2010, 12:54:09 pm
Sounds like Southend has chosen the perfect time to put up more signs:

BBC News - Councils urged to remove unnecessary street signs (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11092590)
 


PMSL
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: ScumOfTheRoad on August 26, 2010, 01:00:55 pm
There is a cracker of a picture on the 'Crap Cycling in Waltham Forest' blog of a shared pavement/cycle facility festooned with metal poles hlding up road signs, whilst of course the road is completely clear. Real  :facepalm: moment.

Not that I'm saying roads should have metal signs stuck in them - just that as a cyclist or pedestrian you are considered some lower form of life.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Regulator on August 26, 2010, 01:32:46 pm
Sounds like Southend has chosen the perfect time to put up more signs:

BBC News - Councils urged to remove unnecessary street signs (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11092590)
 


I hate to say it but I find myself agreeing with Porker Pickles.

There are too many signs and too much street furniture.  The Kensington experiment is working well, as is Seven Dials, and the shared space/naked streets experiments in places like Drachten and Mikkinga in the Netherlands have been roaring successes.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 26, 2010, 01:41:57 pm
I also agree with Mr Pickles, but I would extend his ideas to many road markings. In areas where there are no road markings motorists drive more carefully.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 26, 2010, 01:56:19 pm
...
There are too many signs and too much street furniture.  The Kensington experiment is working well, as is Seven Dials, and the shared space/naked streets experiments in places like Drachten and Mikkinga in the Netherlands have been roaring successes.

Southend are putting in what they call shared space too  :thumbsup:

Victoria Gateway - Downloads - Southend-on-Sea Borough Council (http://www.southend.gov.uk/downloads/download/464/victoria_gateway)

Whilst they always tell us that "all the information is on the website", I'm struggling to find anything on there other than an overview.   Comments from that say
Quote
The 'front door' of Southend needs a major overhaul to improve traffic
flow and improve the town's appearance to visitors. The roundabout in
front of the station is nearly 50 years old and can’t take any more traffic
at peak times.
The new layout aims to address these problems and also improve the
experience for pedestrians, cyclists and public transport users, without
having a significant impact on traffic. A new public space linking the
station with the town centre will also be created, replacing the existing
roundabout with a signal controlled junction.

I used to cycle through there daily at peak times, and it had hardly any congestion.   

The shared space is covered in lane markings and traffic lights.

They've "improved the town's appearance" by cutting down all the trees and digging up the grass.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: gordon taylor on August 26, 2010, 04:11:22 pm
There is a cracker of a picture on the 'Crap Cycling in Waltham Forest' blog of a shared pavement/cycle facility festooned with metal poles hlding up road signs, whilst of course the road is completely clear. Real  :facepalm: moment.

Not that I'm saying roads should have metal signs stuck in them - just that as a cyclist or pedestrian you are considered some lower form of life.

I saw a 40kph sigh in the middle of the road at the entrance to a Swedish housing estate.
I wish I'd taken a photo.  :facepalm:

It enrages me when signs for motorists are placed on pavements or cycle routes. I think all pavements should be clear enough for a double buggy - the space allocated to the motor vehicle in towns is out of all proportion to the number of people using them.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 27, 2010, 09:14:43 pm
There is now a follow up story to the cyclist/girl incident online:

Cycle track will get new safety signs (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8355528.Cycle_track_will_get_new_safety_signs/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on August 28, 2010, 03:01:17 pm
Today. As you can see not only is the filth getting worse but the cycle track is becoming damaged.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/MaximsFilth6.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/MaxinsFilth3.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/maximsFilth4.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/MaximsFilth5.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/MaximsFilth7.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/MaximsFilth8.jpg)

Oh, and I saw this idiot too:


      YouTube
            - Idiot Cyclist.
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdi4aIK3iRQ)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: rogerzilla on August 28, 2010, 07:22:42 pm
He's been watching too many Lucas Brunelle videos but doesn't have the speed, the skill or the nerve to carry it off.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on August 28, 2010, 07:39:18 pm
I wonder if the oil is from a deep fat fryer?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on August 28, 2010, 09:47:07 pm
....
Oh, and I saw this idiot too:


      YouTube
            - Idiot Cyclist.
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdi4aIK3iRQ)


But that's the type of behaviour that Advanced Stop Lines encourage.   Cyclists now believe that it's safer to get ahead of the stopped traffic, and where ASLs aren't painted will put themselves way ahead of the queue and proceed when it's clear  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(


I have had this argument in person with a few of these people.  >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: montysboy on September 01, 2010, 02:06:25 pm
does anyone know why the "look both ways" notices have been burnt off the cycle path opposite Crowstone Ave?




Cheers!


Iain
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on September 01, 2010, 02:17:05 pm
Maybe in response to the Safety Audit?

Quote
2.13 Problem
     ‘Look Both Ways’ markings at various locations. The ‘Look Both Ways’ road markings
     applied at various informal crossing points could encourage southbound pedestrians
     crossing from the central parking areas to stop within the carriageway and potentially
     conflict with motor traffic.

<photographs>

    Recommendation
    Remove markings for southbound pedestrians and replace with Diag. 1057 cycle logo
    on the cycle track, to better indicate to pedestrians that cyclists may be encountered.


Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: montysboy on September 01, 2010, 02:21:00 pm
thanks.... no cycle logos have put put there, so bare tarmac prevails over plain English, daft!  ???



Iain
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on September 01, 2010, 02:57:10 pm
thanks.... no cycle logos have put put there, so bare tarmac prevails over plain English, daft!  ???



Iain

So we've got the Evening Echo reporting that the Council will be putting down more paint in order to make it safer, whilst in reality there is less paint there ???


I trust that we're in the short time period mid-work?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 01, 2010, 04:38:36 pm
Took a ride along the track, it seemed to look noticeably cleaner. The track is still stained, but it looked as if someone had had a go at cleaning the worst.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/CleanTrack2.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/CleanTrack1.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 01, 2010, 09:57:18 pm
Can anyone guess what happens when the emergency services need to get along western Esplanade in a hurry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qWx0nbqYUI)?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on September 02, 2010, 06:16:58 am

Was it just my imagination, or was the seafront extra congested yesterday afternoon?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Regulator on September 02, 2010, 06:55:13 am
Can anyone guess what happens when the emergency services need to get along western Esplanade in a hurry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qWx0nbqYUI)?

And the problem is?

If it were just a road, you'd still have vehicles pulling in and blocking your way.  They cleared the cycle path quickly enough afterwards.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 02, 2010, 07:14:43 am
Can anyone guess what happens when the emergency services need to get along western Esplanade in a hurry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qWx0nbqYUI)?

And the problem is?

If it were just a road, you'd still have vehicles pulling in and blocking your way.  They cleared the cycle path quickly enough afterwards.


… and if you'd read my comment below the video...
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Regulator on September 02, 2010, 07:27:25 am
Can anyone guess what happens when the emergency services need to get along western Esplanade in a hurry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qWx0nbqYUI)?

And the problem is?

If it were just a road, you'd still have vehicles pulling in and blocking your way.  They cleared the cycle path quickly enough afterwards.


… and if you'd read my comment below the video...

Seriously?

I think you may be getting a bit fixated....
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 02, 2010, 07:38:11 am
A few minutes earlier I had passed a woman with two quite young children wobbling along with her. One of them actually said 'Mum I want to ride on the pavement' as I passed. That's why I turned around, to see where they were and that they were ok.
You will note I had already stopped ready for traffic to move over into the cycle track and for the emergency vehicles to pass.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: alexb on September 02, 2010, 08:14:41 am
Can anyone guess what happens when the emergency services need to get along western Esplanade in a hurry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qWx0nbqYUI)?

And the problem is?

If it were just a road, you'd still have vehicles pulling in and blocking your way.  They cleared the cycle path quickly enough afterwards.


… and if you'd read my comment below the video...

Seriously?

I think you may be getting a bit fixated....

Fixated?
There are 47 pages. I don't think there's any doubt about it. If I blogged about the various bits of my commute and how decisions there made no sense we'd have hundreds of pages just from me. It could have been so much better, but I bet Joe public on his BSO thinks it's great.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 02, 2010, 08:23:55 am

Fixated?
There are 47 pages. I don't think there's any doubt about it. If I blogged about the various bits of my commute and how decisions there made no sense we'd have hundreds of pages just from me. It could have been so much better, but I bet Joe public on his BSO thinks it's great.

Perhaps if more cyclists hassled their local councils about poor cycle facilites/road layouts, things might be better.

Personally I think it is better to be 'fixated' than apathetic.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on September 02, 2010, 08:52:18 am
Can anyone guess what happens when the emergency services need to get along western Esplanade in a hurry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qWx0nbqYUI)?

And the problem is?

If it were just a road, you'd still have vehicles pulling in and blocking your way.  They cleared the cycle path quickly enough afterwards.

+1 to Reg.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on September 02, 2010, 10:55:15 am
Can anyone guess what happens when the emergency services need to get along western Esplanade in a hurry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qWx0nbqYUI)?

And the problem is?

If it were just a road, you'd still have vehicles pulling in and blocking your way.  They cleared the cycle path quickly enough afterwards.

Yes, this is the case.    The issue here is that as clandy says on the youtube video, inexperienced cyclists may not be aware of the risk of traffic pulling off of the carriageway onto the dedicated path (it's not common for vehicles to bump up a kerb onto the pavement, but instead they pull over to the kerb to let the emergency services squeeze past).   If Joe Public is riding head down in the direction clandy was facing, there's a higher risk of a head on collision.

If the path wasn't two way, but only in the direction of traffic flow, then it would be much safer and when the cars pull in they will simply obstruct the cyclists' movement - which is fine.   Instead the behaviour of the drivers, often with panic in this situation, coupled with the inexperienced rider, could lead to head on collision.

Personally I don't have a problem with the situation as captured on video as clandy had stopped and all drivers calmly and safely pulled out of the emergency vehicles path and then cleared the path quickly afterwards.    However I can see what is worrying clandy and what might happen next time.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on September 02, 2010, 10:59:11 am
.... It could have been so much better, but I bet Joe public on his BSO thinks it's great.

This is one of the problems.  The path does look very good.  Joe Public thinks it's good.   The Council think it's good and so they claim do the many people who come down to inspect it.

The problem is that somebody looking at it for an hour on a weekday lunchtime isn't going to see it in all the situations that the local riders do.

It's the local riders down there day in and out who witness the collisions, near misses, obstructions, etc that were predicted would occur.  Its us who can see the problems caused by a construction that doesn't come anywhere near the design guidelines that are published.  It is us who can no longer use the road as an alternative since Joe Motorist can see a "high quality" path next to them and give us abuse for not being on it.

It's us who provided suggestions for the seafront, which were ignored.  It's us who can compare the seafront now to how it was before, and how it was before that.  We've been riding here for years.

The front has been constantly improved, and I'll give the council that.  It used to be a race track, but got speed cameras and painted lanes (in parts).  12 months ago it was a much better place to cycle along than 15 years ago.  This month it is the worst place to cycle along yet :(

<rant continued p90>
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on September 02, 2010, 12:27:45 pm
Regarding 'joe public' I have yet to be abused by motorists for not using the path to the West of the pier, something that I wouldnt dare to do to the East  :(
I think 'joe public' can see the path is not up to the job it was designed to do, 'joe public' isnt that much of a mug!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on September 02, 2010, 12:38:40 pm
I've some more Prittlebrook Greenway news.
The dodgy drain cover  >:(
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/THDm-2-V1YI/AAAAAAAAF6Q/YmQxqUSiFOU/s640/p8222689.jpg)
has been replaced  ;D
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TH-K4pxip1I/AAAAAAAAF9Y/A8CiADR8l1Q/s640/p9022802.jpg)
They have nearly finished the Springfield Drv. to Highfield Cres, just the Springfield blockwork to finish.
Now to sort out the inconsiderate parking over the ramps  ::-)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TH-K5_hupSI/AAAAAAAAF9c/P5qXMalrOzk/s640/p9022803.jpg)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TH-K58YaSuI/AAAAAAAAF9g/GJkIrOe_zAA/s640/p9022804.jpg)
The Highfield Crescent section, on the east side does need a "Keep Clear" to stop (sic) the road traffic from blocking the Greenway ramps.

The gravel is still loose! I would imagine it'll be several weeks of walkers and cyclists using the path to tamp down the gravel and kick the loose stuff off to the sides.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on September 02, 2010, 12:48:14 pm
Regarding 'joe public' I have yet to be abused by motorists for not using the path to the West of the pier, something that I wouldnt dare to do to the East  :(
I think 'joe public' can see the path is not up to the job it was designed to do, 'joe public' isnt that much of a mug!

To the west of the pier I wasn't abused.  Once.

All other rides, on the road, I have been yelled at.  Twice on one day.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on September 02, 2010, 12:49:14 pm
...
The gravel is still loose! I would imagine it'll be several weeks of walkers and cyclists using the path to tamp down the gravel and kick the loose stuff off to the sides.

Because it's laid on tarmac, I can't see it getting tamped down to a surface.  It needs a resin binder of some sort laid on it, or it all being swept up.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on September 02, 2010, 03:39:27 pm
I will split this into two, cycle lane East of the pier and West.

East and abuse.
I am not sure if that is because people have got used to the cycle lane being there, and automatically believe you should be using it. Also tbh I dont find it that bad, and it seems to have got better with less cars vans lorries etc parked in it.

West and no abuse.
People can see how fucked up it is, even motorists who have a pathalogical hatred of cyclists realise its dangerous and to put it right is going to cost shit loads more money.

Regarding this thread and people keep adding to it, as long as Southend Council keeps sending its minions out to promote the path for family use then I will keep having a dig when I can  :demon:
Regarding 'joe public' I have yet to be abused by motorists for not using the path to the West of the pier, something that I wouldnt dare to do to the East  :(
I think 'joe public' can see the path is not up to the job it was designed to do, 'joe public' isnt that much of a mug!

To the west of the pier I wasn't abused.  Once.

All other rides, on the road, I have been yelled at.  Twice on one day.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 02, 2010, 04:40:53 pm
Regarding this thread and people keep adding to it, as long as Southend Council keeps sending its minions out to promote the path for family use then I will keep having a dig when I can  :demon:

Absolutely. If there is, heavens forbid, a death on that cycle track, I would prefer I had been speaking up, than saying nothing.

There is an old Greenpeace slogan that I believe also applies here:

'The optimism of the action is better than the pessimism of the thought.' Harald Zindler.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 02, 2010, 08:20:51 pm
A courteous driver in Southend.


      YouTube
            - Courteous Driver, Thank You.
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-Q4WeT7VJM)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on September 02, 2010, 10:37:27 pm
A courteous driver in Southend.


      YouTube
            - Courteous Driver, Thank You.
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-Q4WeT7VJM)
Was he courteous to the vehicle behind him?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 02, 2010, 10:45:41 pm
A courteous driver in Southend.


      YouTube
            - Courteous Driver, Thank You.
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-Q4WeT7VJM)
Was he courteous to the vehicle behind him?

There is a rare occurrence of a driver going out of their way to be courteous to a cyclist, and all you're worried about is the car behind him?  ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on September 04, 2010, 11:54:21 am
Not wanting to be the bringer of bad news but
Just been out for a morning ride and on the return I chanced the seafront path heading towards Chalkwell. As I aproached The Arch's cafe's Shorefield Road junction there was four of five police cars around, the cycle path taped off and the police photographers out in force. I have no idea what has happened, but it looks as if it has involved the cycle path and it didnt look good news.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 04, 2010, 12:10:58 pm
Just came past that too. Spoke to one of the police officers, asked if he could give an idea as to the nature of the incident but understandably all he could say was 'At this time it is just a measuring exercise'.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on September 05, 2010, 09:55:35 pm
If anybody does hear any more, if not suitable for posting here please do send me a pm.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 11, 2010, 12:53:19 am
Today's eejits:


    YouTube
        - Today. 10-09-10
   (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcp-ECfJtKs)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Tewdric on September 11, 2010, 01:15:02 am
Focus driver overtaking too close only to brake sharply and join back of long queue - yep, rather dumb.

Elderly pedestrian not appreciating that cyclist might be on a cycle path, probably because they haven't existed for most of their life:  No problem, make allowances, it'll only cost a few seconds.

Shock doddery old lady into rushing across as fast as she could, which wasn't very:  Sorry mate, your fail.  

If you're pointing the finger at motorists for failing to have patience with cyclists, then you might want to have a rethink about the effect your riding is having on vulnerable pedestrians.  
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 11, 2010, 01:22:13 am
Focus driver overtaking too close only to brake sharply and join back of long queue - yep, rather dumb.

Elderly pedestrian not appreciating that cyclist might be on a cycle path, probably because they haven't existed for most of their life:  No problem, make allowances, it'll only cost a few seconds.

Shock doddery old lady into rushing across as fast as she could, which wasn't very:  Sorry mate, your fail.  

If you're pointing the finger at motorists for failing to have patience with cyclists, then you might want to have a rethink about the effect your riding is having on vulnerable pedestrians.  

Take another look at the video. The elderly pedestrians were preceded by a dog on an almost invisible extendable lead…  might not be a problem to you with your Action Man Eagle Eyes, but to us mere mortals could prove decidedly dangerous...
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Tewdric on September 11, 2010, 01:29:15 am
OK, I didn't spot the lead, but I don't think it makes that much difference.  Peds are allowed on cyclepaths, and I think we need to be tolerant of them, even the irritating ones. 

 
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 11, 2010, 01:32:42 am
OK, I didn't spot the lead, but I don't think it makes that much difference.  Peds are allowed on cyclepaths, and I think we need to be tolerant of them, even the irritating ones.  

  

Makes a shitload of difference. I only spotted the lead because I had already adjusted my speed due to the wheelchair left in the cycle lane, others might not have done, with disastrous consequences for themselves and the dog.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: gordon taylor on September 11, 2010, 07:55:40 am
I'm with Tewdric on this. I've been puzzled by this thread for a long time, in particular the expectation from some posters that a cycle lane through a busy area should somehow (and uniquely) be clear and fast, when the users of the road and the pavement all have to compromise and adjust their movements.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: woollypigs on September 11, 2010, 08:40:57 am
I agree that you should take extra care when using a cycle path in a busy area. But letting your dog run ahead of you on a 5m lead as you cross a road and path is rather dumb, make sure it is clear before letting the mutt run. From what I can see on the video they are only looking forward.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on September 11, 2010, 08:45:20 am
+1 to Tewdric
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 11, 2010, 09:06:17 am
Ok, I apologise. There was nothing wrong with the dog owner risking clotheslining a cyclist. There was absolutely no danger at all to myself or the dog or other cyclists.  
Obviously the cycle track was built purely for pedestrians to play in and I have no right whatsoever to expect to use it at slower than walking pace for more than 5 metres at a time without stopping. What on Earth was I thinking.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: ScumOfTheRoad on September 11, 2010, 09:09:08 am
Clandy,  
   that's not good enough. Not good enough at all. On sighting any pedestrian on the cycle path, you should lay your bike down and prostrate yourself at their feet. On sighting any domestic pet, you should offer your leg as a tasty snack, indeed the thoughtful cyclist will carry a waterbottle of gravy to make it more tasty.  And while you're at it, get those sackcloth cycling shorts on right now.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Regulator on September 11, 2010, 09:18:35 am
I inspected the path yesterday.

Stupid design...

Moronic pedestrians and drivers...

FAIL all round.

But not the end of the world.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Oaky on September 11, 2010, 09:37:34 am
It sounds like one of the main problems with the new facility is that it has now forced cyclists into a choice between using a facility not fit for the purpose of getting from A to B (but fine for pootling families), or using the road and being subjected to closer, more dangerous overtakes (due to the carriageway now being narrower than it was) and aggravation from motorists who can't see why they're not using the "perfectly good cycle lane over there".

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on September 11, 2010, 09:37:54 am
Yes, they could have taken more care, but really, making a granny run for it?  That's something I would be proud of, yes?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 11, 2010, 10:11:12 am
Yes, they could have taken more care, but really, making a granny run for it?  That's something I would be proud of, yes?

'Making a granny run for it'? She was well clear by the time I reached them and she chose to walk a little quicker as she cleared the track. Still, at least I didn't scream at them for what they had done.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on September 11, 2010, 10:20:01 am
Well, I'm not always as good with pedestrians as I would like to be either.  :)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: teethgrinder on September 11, 2010, 04:20:04 pm
I've been clotheslined by a dog lead. A much bigger dog too. It'd have to be really, that's one tiny dog in the clip ;D
No danger or damage, it was probably the hound that came off worst, then the owner. More comical than dangerous really, but not good. It could possibly do some minor damage to your bike I suppose.

Anyone notice how dog walkers tend to call their dog over to them instead of stepping over to their dog when they have their dog on a long lead with them on one sde of the cyclepath and their dog on the other? ::-) ;D

To be fair to Clandy with the old lady, some people do tend to run for it when they see an approaching cyclist. I don't think he forced her to make a dash, it's just the way people react sometimes.
Clandy was close to the lady and she saw him at the last minute, not long enough to calculate his speed, or should I say, lack of speed.
It also saddens me when peds jump out of my way and apologose for "being in my way" I assume.
I never really know what to say to indicate that they've nothing to apologise for. I usualy just shrug my shoulders and say it's OK.
I'm sure that the reason some people complin that you don't have a bell is born from their own (wrongly felt) guilt of "being in your way."

I'm convinced that it all comes from the car culture where everyone must get out of the way of cars. :(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: woollypigs on September 11, 2010, 04:44:23 pm
I'm with you there teethgrinder, when as a cyclist you are on a shared path (yes the above clip they are not) you have to give way to the peds.

Many times I have happily stayed behind waiting for a gap where I can get past them with plenty of space. To have them turn around, jump out of the way pulling each other to the side, with the look that they are about to get run over.

If only they had paid attention to what is going around them and had seen me 2-3 min before when I slowed down to their speed and  happily waited behind them.

But that comes probably from the people on bikes who cycle on the pavement, RLJ and use the Ealing SKYride as a racing track when it was packed with 5,000+ people and no room for doing so.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: teethgrinder on September 11, 2010, 05:12:35 pm
Many times I have happily stayed behind waiting for a gap where I can get past them with plenty of space. To have them turn around, jump out of the way pulling each other to the side, with the look that they are about to get run over.

If only they had paid attention to what is going around them and had seen me 2-3 min before when I slowed down to their speed and  happily waited behind them.


I sometimes get that when I'm coming towards them. You'd think that I would just ride into them as fast as I can sometimes. They tend not to look very far ahead either. I often ahve to get very close before they realise that I'm there, so they don't realise that I've allready slowed down. You do get selfish tossers on bikes though, who just barge through and some will even shout at people. :(

I treat all cyclepaths as shared use. If it means I have to cycle on the pedestrian bit to give a pedestrian walking on the cyclepath, then so be it. Cyclepaths are nothing more than legalised pavement cycling. Pavements are for pedestrians.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on September 13, 2010, 12:08:02 pm
I'm with Tewdric on this. I've been puzzled by this thread for a long time, in particular the expectation from some posters that a cycle lane through a busy area should somehow (and uniquely) be clear and fast, when the users of the road and the pavement all have to compromise and adjust their movements.

All users (road/pavement/path) should compromise and adjust their movements.  This is my firm believe.

The issue we have here is that pedestrians meander all around the pavement in random directions, which is fine other than they spill over onto the narrow cycle track where the cyclists have insufficient room to adjust their movements (other than slow down).  But on the other side of the cycle track we have motor traffic still blasting along at 30mph (I'm down there at commuting times, not the stationary gridlocked weekends).

The motor traffic is not compromising and adjusting its movements, and woe betide any cyclist who dares ride in the road to avoid pedestrian conflict!  Cyclist in the road = major abuse for impeding the holy motor car.

It sounds like one of the main problems with the new facility is that it has now forced cyclists into a choice between using a facility not fit for the purpose of getting from A to B (but fine for pootling families), or using the road and being subjected to closer, more dangerous overtakes (due to the carriageway now being narrower than it was) and aggravation from motorists who can't see why they're not using the "perfectly good cycle lane over there".

Well summarised. 

Personally I don't think that the cycle track is fine for pootling families either, and certainly wouldn't take my niece/nephew down there.  It's too narrow and too close to fast motor traffic.   If LTN2/08 had been followed and the path had had a minimum width of 3m then it would have been more suitable.  But for a pootling individual, it's usable with care.


Southend is a cycle town, but by creating this path it has catered for a very small target population of cyclists; whilst making conditions for the majority of cyclists worse.

A better scheme could have been introduced here, and we gave the Council three suggestions back in 2008 which they appear to have ignored.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on September 13, 2010, 12:13:47 pm
Not wanting to be the bringer of bad news but
Just been out for a morning ride and on the return I chanced the seafront path heading towards Chalkwell. As I aproached The Arch's cafe's Shorefield Road junction there was four of five police cars around, the cycle path taped off and the police photographers out in force. I have no idea what has happened, but it looks as if it has involved the cycle path and it didnt look good news.

Was this just east of the arches, where the road surface goes from tarmac to the beige anti-skid?

I was down there recently and noticed that there's red paint there similar to the stuff the police use to mark evidence spots following a collision.  Lots of little dots on the path (as usually used to mark blood/debris), followed by a dotted line which could have indicated the path of a vehicle tyre onto the track and then back onto the road again.


I noticed some more, possibly indicating another incident, nearly at Shorefield Road, and then further west (opposite the shelter) what appeared to be markings indicating the four corners of where a vehicle had stopped - on the track.


WTF is going on down there?  Have there been 3 separate collisions marked out?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 13, 2010, 12:35:35 pm
This is what I saw:


    YouTube
        - Cycle Track Incident
   (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2tbFhWePY4)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on September 13, 2010, 01:39:43 pm
Looks like they're measuring the second set of marks I mentioned.   The first set were behind (and under) their parked cars.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on September 13, 2010, 04:02:27 pm
Quote
Was this just east of the arches, where the road surface goes from tarmac to the beige anti-skid?

Thats where I saw the police with measuring gear. Me and 2_Flat_Erics went back the next day to have a good look and on the zig-zag closest to the kerb was lengthy skid mark, not a stand out mark but quite clearly visable if you looked closely. I would imagine it could have come from an abs brake on a different surface, the white paint in this case. If you look at Clandys video you can see some of the mark. Starts at 13seconds and ends at the red cone.

I am pro cycle paths in general but in this case the cycle path is shit, no matter how safe a cyclist you can describe yourself as and how safe you ride whilst on it there is always a problem. When I head in that direction at busy times I now cut off at the amusements and take Lucy Road then through the town centre.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 14, 2010, 01:34:07 pm
In today's Echo:

'Andy Lewis, the council's corporate director for enterprise tourism and the environment said [of the new narrower road along the City Beach], "This gives a psychological impression to drivers they have less space and they tend to reduce their speed, though we've removed the actual traffic-calming measures. It reduces their speed, but makes the flow of traffic smoother."
Around the junction of Marine Parade and Hartington Road is a raised 'shared space' area which pedestrians will use as well as cars.
There will be no designated cycle path like along Western Esplanade, but cyclists travelling between Thorpe Bay and Westcliff will be able to use either the road or the promenade.'


No cycle path at all has to be better than the Western Esplanade debacle.

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 15, 2010, 01:59:07 pm
Result!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/Result.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on September 15, 2010, 02:07:44 pm
Result!
It looks like a different company, perhaps picking up different bins.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on September 16, 2010, 10:21:27 am
The Greenway still has loose pea shingle on the Vic. Ave. - Prit. Chs. bend.
They are now putting wooden bollards either side of the ramps, approx. 1000x200x200mm in size, with a pre carved round hole for a small, possibly shared path, sign.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on September 16, 2010, 06:43:48 pm
Oh, fecking hell no!    >:( No, no, no, no, no!

Thorpe Hall Avenue  :-[ :-[

I despair!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on September 16, 2010, 06:45:54 pm
Oh, fecking hell no!    >:( No, no, no, no, no!

Thorpe Hall Avenue  :-[ :-[

I despair!
???
I'll guess that they are making a cycle lane on the footway and leaving the road as a four lane dual carriageway.  ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on September 16, 2010, 07:44:10 pm
Worse than that! The dual carriageways stay. The central reservation is untouched (thank dog for small mercies).

They are going to mark parking bays in the nearside carriage way, then have a separation zone of half a metre, then a cycle lane, then the car lane.

But, on the stretch from the seafront to Woodgrange Drive there is hardly ever any parked cars anyway so the effect will be to have a two lane carriageway with a cycle lane in between the two lanes.   :facepalm:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on September 16, 2010, 07:48:23 pm
They are going to mark parking bays in the nearside carriage way, then have a separation zone of half a meter, then a cycle lane, then the car lane.
It's so the council can have extra parking bays @ £X/hour just in case some fool from out of town wanders into the area and wants to park.
They must have a few hundred thou left over from Cycling England.  ::-)

edit: How have they worked out getting cyclists off the seafront and onto THA?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 16, 2010, 07:57:51 pm
There has been another alleged 'death by dangerous driving' in Southend today. A pedestrian was run down in Victoria Avenue. This on top of three road closures for traffic collisions yesterday.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on September 16, 2010, 08:13:39 pm
They are going to mark parking bays in the nearside carriage way, then have a separation zone of half a meter, then a cycle lane, then the car lane.
It's so the council can have extra parking bays @ £X/hour just in case some fool from out of town wanders into the area and wants to park.
They must have a few hundred thou left over from Cycling England.  ::-)

edit: How have they worked out getting cyclists off the seafront and onto THA?

East of the roundabout cross over the seafront from NCN 16, short section of shared use footpath up THA. Looks like cyclists going up THA will need to cross over a zebra crossing at the end of the shared use section.

Also looks like the path will end just before the RAB at woodgrange drive then start again on the other side. No problem for experienced cyclists but the less experienced may be looking for guidence from a path that just ends when they need it the most.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on September 16, 2010, 08:14:12 pm
They must have a few hundred thou left over from Cycling England.  ::-)


There is absolutely no need for a cycle lane in Thorpe Hall Avenue.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on September 16, 2010, 08:29:16 pm
They must have a few hundred thou left over from Cycling England.  ::-)
There is absolutely no need for a cycle lane in Thorpe Hall Avenue.
There wasn't a need for the Western Espl. lane either but that didn't stop them from building it.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Redlight on September 16, 2010, 10:34:24 pm
Pedantically, one might say that there is no need for cycle lanes anywhere. That's what roads are for.  But Southend does seem to have taken idiocy to an inspired level.  I was there a few weeks ago and went out for a short ride along the seafront with my stepfather, who splits his time between Leigh and a small town in Holland. We used the cycle route from Chalkwell to just before the pier. I came back on the road and he joined me just after the casino.  We both came away concluding that someone has been putting something mind-altering in the councillors' tea.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on September 17, 2010, 11:22:11 am
Everybody who has these new plans for the area, please make sure you not only provide suitable feedback to them but also make sure that the council acknowledges these responses.

They claim to be consulting, now lets see them respond accordingly.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on September 17, 2010, 11:22:29 am
Pedantically, one might say that there is no need for cycle lanes anywhere. That's what roads are for.  But Southend does seem to have taken idiocy to an inspired level.  I was there a few weeks ago and went out for a short ride along the seafront with my stepfather, who splits his time between Leigh and a small town in Holland. We used the cycle route from Chalkwell to just before the pier. I came back on the road and he joined me just after the casino.  We both came away concluding that someone has been putting something mind-altering in the councillors' tea.

I'm glad it's not only us locals who think this.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on September 17, 2010, 11:39:58 am
I was at a regular meeting with Essex County Council last week and the Southend cycle Town Project manager (who actually works for a 3rd party consultant firm) was there for the first time.  He branded me a troublemaker in front of the people who have known me for years.

So...    :demon:



He was asked to give a short presentation on what's happening in Southend.  Here is a summary from my notes (it's only a summary because Southend told me to put my pen down and stop making notes).


Southend has been awarded money to create a cycle town so we have four schemes underway.
Progress Road, Cuckoo Corner, Victoria Circus, City Beach.
All these schemes are implementing cycle facilities.
The total cost of these schemes is £25m, of which £3m is on cycling.




Now call me a cynic, but considering that the Cycle England money is £3.2m matched funding (SBC pay £3.2m and get another £3.2m from CE), doesn't this sound a lot like "we'll juggle the budget to say that we've spent £3m in order to get more funding revenue coming in"?


Let's look at the four schemes, where is £3m being spent on cycling?

Progress Road.
Current cycle path crosses Progress Road without a crossing.  They are putting in 5 toucans so that a cyclist can press the button and cross lots of slip roads, as well as the eastbound A127 twice.  This is a delay to cyclists, not an improvement.  The driver for the scheme is to try to reduce queuing motor traffic.

Cuckoo Corner.
Roundabout is getting traffic lights and another traffic lane.  The plans in the public domain show nothing else, although I did see one draft that showed partial cycle lanes at one point on the roundabout.  The driver for the scheme is to try to reduce queuing motor traffic.

Victoria Circus.
Remove a well designed roundabout without queuing traffic and replace with a traffic lights T-Junction.  Call this "shared space".  Paint some cycle lanes.

City Beach.
Change the current road with a central reservation into a narrowed normal road, thus widening the pavement.  Make this a shared use promenade.  Bring the road surface up to be flush with the pavement to make it easier for irresponsible motorists to use the pavement for parking/bypassing a queue.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 17, 2010, 11:46:16 am
Plus Southend council are on record as saying there will be 'no dedicated cycle lane' on City Beach. Cyclists will be 'free to use the road or the promenade'. So £0.00 spent on cycling as part of City Beach.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on September 17, 2010, 05:49:16 pm
Everybody who has these new plans for the area, please make sure you not only provide suitable feedback to them but also make sure that the council acknowledges these responses.

They claim to be consulting, now lets see them respond accordingly.

Who do you normally send comments to? Do you just respond to Sarah Haddens email or is it best to email someone like Neil or Tim?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on September 17, 2010, 05:51:00 pm
Plus Southend council are on record as saying there will be 'no dedicated cycle lane' on City Beach. Cyclists will be 'free to use the road or the promenade'. So £0.00 spent on cycling as part of City Beach.

Yeah but... no but... yeah but... no but...

them little round shared use signs cost loadsa money  :D
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: teethgrinder on September 17, 2010, 06:06:26 pm
Here is a summary from my notes (it's only a summary because Southend told me to put my pen down and stop making notes).

Bring a dictaphone or MP3 which records next time. ;)

Sounds like they're making Southend a dog's dinner for everyone who uses the roads.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 17, 2010, 07:01:47 pm
It's something I suppose… wonder what type they'll be?

More bicycle parking in Southend (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8400159.More_bicycle_parking_in_Southend/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on September 17, 2010, 09:35:42 pm
It's something I suppose… wonder what type they'll be?

More bicycle parking in Southend (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8400159.More_bicycle_parking_in_Southend/)

I suspect they will be the same as the ones the council has installed in the schools etc. A row of sheffield stands with a glass/perspex awning.

Cycle Parking is on the Agenda of next Mondays cycle forum meeting so looks like we will get more details then.


Mondays forum meeting is in the civic centre, committee room 6 from 19:00 - 21:30
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 17, 2010, 10:52:57 pm
If possible perhaps someone could try to get across that the main issue with cycle parking is security. There is nothing stopping thieves approaching parked bikes, bolt cropping and walking away with a bike. At least with car parks there is some form of security keeping an eye on things.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on September 18, 2010, 12:44:43 am
If possible perhaps someone could try to get across that the main issue with cycle parking is security. There is nothing stopping thieves approaching parked bikes, bolt cropping and walking away with a bike. At least with car parks there is some form of security keeping an eye on things.

At the last meeting the project manager was pushing a new bike storage device that a local company has designed.  A sealed box in effect.

The meeting was very similar to an episode of Dragon's Den.   I asked whether the boxes would be large enough to hide in whilst sawing through the bike padlock.

I don't think that we were supposed to hear the entrepreneur say "well myself and the project manager have known each other for years and we're hopeful that the southend cycle town budget can be spent on these new boxes we're trying to launch".  Old boys network....
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on September 18, 2010, 12:47:54 am
Everybody who has these new plans for the area, please make sure you not only provide suitable feedback to them but also make sure that the council acknowledges these responses.

They claim to be consulting, now lets see them respond accordingly.

Who do you normally send comments to? Do you just respond to Sarah Haddens email or is it best to email someone like Neil or Tim?

Work's been manic so I haven't even opened those mails yet as I need to give them a lot of attention.

Reply to Sara, copy Neil & Tim.  If you have serious concerns, based on errors made elsewhere, I'd consider cc'ing the leader of the Council/Chief Exec/whatever his name is (sorry - brain mush - still at work!)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on September 18, 2010, 12:52:40 am
Although I'm working from home, I'm catching up on the stuff that the nice Mr Sky records for me.  I've just finished watching this week's episode of Police Interceptors as that's something you can have as background watching.  It's episode 15 of 15 of the latest series.

This has obviously been filmed this summer as the cycle track is there in all its painted and finished glory.

The police interceptor car was parked ON THE TRACK at the end of the episode whilst they monitored the southend cruise scene.  The view ahead through the windscreen also showed another vehicle on the track near the casino (I think not a police car).


I wonder what would have happened if a cyclist had headed east along the track?   The traffic was heavy and almost stationary.  Could the police car have got off the track in time?   Is it legal to park on the track as there are double yellow lines on the carriageway.  etc etc etc.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on September 18, 2010, 08:27:41 am
Quote
The police interceptor car was parked ON THE TRACK at the end of the episode whilst they monitored the southend cruise scene.  The view ahead through the windscreen also showed another vehicle on the track near the casino (I think not a police car).

That might have been before the cycle path was officially open though  :hand:
I have not been along the seafront late on a Saturday night for a long time. I would expect that just like the pre-cyclepath days or rather nights in this case, post-cyclepath its no different. A very dangerous place to ride a bike.
Is the cycle path policed at all during the evening, I doubt it.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on September 18, 2010, 08:40:42 am
If possible perhaps someone could try to get across that the main issue with cycle parking is security. There is nothing stopping thieves approaching parked bikes, bolt cropping and walking away with a bike. At least with car parks there is some form of security keeping an eye on things.

At the last meeting the project manager was pushing a new bike storage device that a local company has designed.  A sealed box in effect.

The meeting was very similar to an episode of Dragon's Den.   I asked whether the boxes would be large enough to hide in whilst sawing through the bike padlock.

I don't think that we were supposed to hear the entrepreneur say "well myself and the project manager have known each other for years and we're hopeful that the southend cycle town budget can be spent on these new boxes we're trying to launch".  Old boys network....

The bike boxes will never be used by the council for general public bike parking. They will be too expensive, take up too much room and (as pointed out by the designers themselves) they loose control of the box. (Someone could lock the box and keep the key and effectivly have their own private lock box in the town that no one else could use).

The boxes are fine for individuals at home or on business premises for the employees but not in a public space for general use.

For public bike parking their only seem to be a few alternatives to increase security.

CCTV. but then the opperater has to spot the theif in the couple of seconds it takes to crop a lock. Once the theif has gone they will probably never be caught even though they were caught on camera.

Locked unmanned compound which you can only gain access to with a ticket. This would work similar to the secure unmanned carparks i've seen in a few places. At the entrance you take a ticket and the gate opens (You only get a ticket if the camera can sense the shape of a bike). The ticket has an allocated space printed on it and you park the bike up. A sensor in the parking space knows you are parked up. You use the ticket to open the gate to get out the system knows your bike is not to be moved until you return with your ticket. If someone gets into the compound with anoter ticket and moves your bike then the alarms sound. When you return with your ticket the system knows which bike is allowed to be moved. This is expensive so will never happen.

Locked manned compound. Similar to above but makes extensive use of the mark one human eyeball. Again far to expensive so the council will never do it.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on September 18, 2010, 09:58:27 am
Is the cycle path policed at all during the evening, I doubt it.
I don't think Southend is policed during the evening!  :-\
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 18, 2010, 05:24:10 pm
Ever get the feeling there's a council PR campaign in the air..?

Rediscovering the thrills of cycling (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8395699.Rediscovering_the_thrills_of_cycling/)

Pedal power needed to help Southend's Village Green festival (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8400126.Pedal_power_needed_to_help_Southend_s_Village_Green_festival/)

Free biking event in Cluny Square, Southend (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8400174.Free_biking_event_in_Cluny_Square__Southend/)

More bicycle parking in Southend (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8400159.More_bicycle_parking_in_Southend/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on September 19, 2010, 04:22:42 pm
But no mention of any incidents!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Oaky on September 19, 2010, 11:04:36 pm
Own up then: which of you did a "cat-lady" (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-11358962) on Baker_Boy?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on September 20, 2010, 06:11:44 am
Own up then: which of you did a "cat-lady" (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-11358962) on Baker_Boy?
Good job he was found by someone as he couldn't have formed a cohesive sentence to tell the emergency services where he was.   ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on September 20, 2010, 08:36:19 pm
I liked the comment in the Echo

Quote
He must have been dumped by his girlfriend

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on September 21, 2010, 07:55:12 am
Highlights from last nights cycle forum meeting.

Prittlewell brook greenway. Work will continue to complete the greenway as far as Westbourne Grove where the money runs out. If new funds can be found then they will continue to the next phase. The surface will continue to be the “pea shingle” type that is laid at the completed Victoria Avenue end. Neil Hoskins assures us that the loose top surface is only temporary. The loose stuff should bed in or be swept aside after a few weeks of use leaving a solid surface. Part of the reason for choosing this surface was to increase the noise of tyres and footsteps on a shared path (peds can hear a cyclist or other peds approaching from behind which is probably a good idea in an unlit muggers paradise).

Cycle parking at train stations. A new secure cycle parking facility is going to be installed at Victoria Station but it will only be available for use by season ticket holders. Users will need to buy an electronic key fob that will allow them entry into the facility and it will also be covered by CCTV. If another key holder nicks or tampers with your bike they will know who it is based on the CCTV and logs from the key entry. I forgot to ask if a PIN number is also needed for entry. If no PIN is needed then there is of course a potential risk if someone has the key fob stolen or they lose it and it is picked up by the wrong person. New standard covered Sheffield stands are going it at Victoria, and Southend East. Indoor parking as part of the redesign in Shoebury, and some new double decker stands at leigh. Chalkwall is a bit of a problem due to lack of space but Tim Totten did mention that he has made up some plans that would narrow the carriageway to allow for cycle parking to be added but it’s still very early days and Chalkwall station is not due for a makeover until next year.

Cycle parking general. There are plans to add a bunch of other single and double stands all over the town outside shops and doctors surgeries etc. These will be in ones and twos and will be either Sheffield stands or an attachment that can be bolted onto existing sign and lamp posts which the bike can then be locked to.

Thorpe Hall cycle route. This is being funded as part of a deal with Futures College. This explains why a road that does not need a cycle path now has plans for one. A number of issues were raised including the fact that it will make the road more dangerous for cyclists by forcing them further into the carriageway and by formalising a cycle path drivers will be encouraged to pass cyclists faster and closer. Issues were also raised about the lack of any path across the roundabouts. This is no problem for an experienced cyclist but a path will give inexperienced cyclists a false sense of security and then abandon them when they need it most. John Bowman also raised concerns about drivers moving well clear of the central reservation due to how close the trees are to the edge of the kerb, he also raised concern over the width of the door zone. Consultation is still ongoing but it seems that the scheme will go ahead in one form or another regardless. The council won’t be seen to be giving back money to a developer that has been given to them to improve cycling facilities.

The new cycling maps were shown but I did not get a chance to look at them properly. Basically each road has been colour coded in line with bikeability skills to show how appropriate it is for cycling at each skill level. I asked if a PDF copy could be sent out to all forum members but Neil Hoskins was not sure if they had a PDF copy they could send out, he will look though.  It seems that the map is going to be sent to print anyway so there is probably no time left to comment on it.

Maintenance. Winter maintenance (i.e. gritting of the cycle paths). This was discussed but the overall impression that we were left with was that it is probably not going to happen. The reasoning is that a major cycle path like the eastern/western esplanade gets a maximum of 500 cyclists a day on a sunny summers day. On a freezing icy winters day they expect only a handful of the hardiest cyclists to still be out and about. Basically the argument is that the numbers do not stack up to warrant spending the time and money on gritting the cycle paths.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on September 22, 2010, 08:38:57 am
A couple of other things to add from the forum meeting.

Opperation Velo (Police on bikes) was only a trial but due to the success it has now been confirmed that the velo team will be permanent. The team arrest rate was way better than average so the team may also be expanded.

No one on the council is aware of any fatal or serious incidents on the path near Shorefield road. (Where Domestique, Clandy and others saw the police taking measurements). The council team belive that if there had been a serious incident then they would have been aware of it by now. It was suggested by a couple of people that the police may have been taking additional measurements in relation to the incident with the quad bike and paramedic.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Redlight on September 22, 2010, 01:17:46 pm

 On a freezing icy winters day they expect only a handful of the hardiest cyclists to still be out and about. Basically the argument is that the numbers do not stack up to warrant spending the time and money on gritting the cycle paths.


Seems like a pretty good reason not to use them (as if one were needed).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 29, 2010, 08:20:56 pm
Noticed today work has started on the inadequate door zone by Adventure Island. I seem to recall one of the safety audit issues with this was it wasn't wide enough. It doesn't look any wider now, just a different colour tarmac instead of hatching.


    YouTube
        - New markings
   (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDz0sBY0Xvo)

and the shrubbery has been cut right back where I witnessed the cyclist/cyclist collision earlier in the year:


    YouTube
        - CutbackShrubbery
   (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfdLEUfOppg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Andrij on September 30, 2010, 09:02:19 am
Some of rode along the new farcility at the end of last weekend's FNRttC.  I couldn't help but think that Southend could now use a new slogan:
Southend Council — Redefining 'crap'

 
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on September 30, 2010, 09:20:05 am
Some of rode along the new farcility at the end of last weekend's FNRttC.  I couldn't help but think that Southend could now use a new slogan:
Southend Council — Redefining 'crap'

 

Not quite as well as Flatus though.   ;D
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on September 30, 2010, 03:27:25 pm
My mistake. The shrubbery removal is nothing to do with safety issues, it is part of the sea defence renewal:

Dog walkers worried work is harming wildlife in Gunners Park (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8421499.Dog_walkers_worried_work_in_park_is_harming_wildlife/)


I realise we need sea defences, but I can't say I'm happy at the impact this will have on the nature reserve.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on September 30, 2010, 03:28:05 pm
More Greenway work, Springfield to Southbourne Grove, starts.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TKSbyzMOUGI/AAAAAAAAGC8/N82goFOHgms/s640/p9302922.jpg)

Springfield Drive build outs.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TKSbzRZ8PpI/AAAAAAAAGDA/BFwfN89Cqx4/s640/p9302923.jpg)

The bollards now have signs (are they facing the right way?)
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TKSbztZX1nI/AAAAAAAAGDE/W4ZhG1IN0S8/s640/p9302924.jpg)

New barriers at Prittlewell chase.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TKSbz4qdXZI/AAAAAAAAGDI/qIlAKiWlndM/s640/p9302928.jpg)

Roolz and destructions. No mention of dogs!
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TKSb0ThxTpI/AAAAAAAAGDM/PfZYtWQg1Xk/s640/p9302930.jpg)
Full size image Clicky (http://lh3.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TKSb0ThxTpI/AAAAAAAAGDM/PfZYtWQg1Xk/p9302930.jpg)

Gravel is still loose!  ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on October 01, 2010, 06:46:18 pm
Noticed today work has started on the inadequate door zone by Adventure Island. I seem to recall one of the safety audit issues with this was it wasn't wide enough. It doesn't look any wider now, just a different colour tarmac instead of hatching.


    YouTube
        - New markings
   (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDz0sBY0Xvo)



And the word is that if the new red line does not work then they will put in low concrete bollards similar to kerb stones. Why didnt they just build out the kerb in the first place, it would have saved a lot of time and wasted money.

The councils parking enforcment contracters were supposedly going to start ticketing cars mounths ago if they were parked over the line. It's still not happening though because the council won't start parking enforcement until they have put up signs telling people how to park properly.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on October 07, 2010, 07:42:49 pm
Noticed today work has started on the inadequate door zone by Adventure Island. I seem to recall one of the safety audit issues with this was it wasn't wide enough. It doesn't look any wider now, just a different colour tarmac instead of hatching.


    YouTube
        - New markings
   (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDz0sBY0Xvo)

I thought that was a new bus lane!!!   ;D
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on October 07, 2010, 11:22:00 pm
Oh, fecking hell no!    >:( No, no, no, no, no!

Thorpe Hall Avenue  :-[ :-[

I despair!

Although I'm swamped at work and don't have much time at all now for cycle campaigning or chatting in here, I have not been able to ignore this and other related comment I've heard re this scheme, coupled with my own feelings on the plans I've been supplied.

The consultation closes tomorrow, so I have just sent this email to Rob Tinlin (Southend Chief Exec), the three ward Councillors, and cc'd the Evening Echo.  I haven't bothered contacting the Cycle Town project staff as I'm still awaiting any form of response to my previous emails (as usual) despite them promising a good two way communication between us in order to work constructively on cycling in the town.

Quote
Dear Sirs,

Please do NOT go ahead with the plans for cycle lanes in Thorpe Hall
Avenue due to the below reasons.

These plans are based on the failed implementation of cycle lanes in
Prittlewell Chase:-
 - The parking bays are of insufficient width to cater for all vehicles
to park in.  Therefore they intrude into the door buffer zone.

 - the 0.5m buffer zone, whilst of minimum recommended guideline width,
does not prevent vehicle doors being opened into the cycle lane
 - the 0.5m buffer zone implemented in Prittlewell Chase in reality is
less than 0.5m in width.

 - the 1.5m cycle lane, whilst of the minimum recommended width, allows
no cyclist room to manoeuvre should there be a hazard in their path; be
it an opening vehicle door, pothole, or other unforeseen situation.
 - As proven in Prittlewell Chase the painted cycle lane restricts the
cyclist into maintaining a dedicated course which may not be the safest
route.  The Prittlewell Chase lane in reality is not as wide as the
published 1.5m, in some cases reducing to just 0.43m!

 - the 3m traffic lane may be sufficient to allow safe passage of small
vehicles (cars) but is not of sufficient width to cater for all vehicles
such as buses, HGVs, refuse vehicles, etc
 - on Prittlewell Chase these wider vehicles intrude into the cycle lane
on a regular basis, putting cyclists in danger.  Worse, now that drivers
can clearly see that there are dedicated areas for cyclists and
motorists, they neither slow down when passing cyclists nor give them
sufficient passing distance.  Cyclists are no longer able to use their
bikeability training and control the surrounding traffic.  It is
extremely alarming to be passed by a large vehicle travelling at 30mph
just two inches from your right elbow.

I am more than willing to meet on site in Prittlewell Chase to discuss
these statements and to demonstrate why the Thorpe Hall Avenue scheme
should not copy this.

The plans as proposed only provide for the straight carriageways, and
abandon cyclists in the areas of greatest danger, namely major
junctions.  e.g. at the roundabout with Acacia Drive no facilities are
provided; cyclists travelling east on Southchurch Boulevard and wanting
to turn right onto Thorpe Hall Avenue via the roundabout are not catered
for; at the junction with Thorpe Esplanade the cycle facility is
inconveniently passed from the carriageway to the pavement; between the
seafront to Woodgrange Drive there are rarely any parked cars so the
effect will be to have a two lane carriageway with a cycle lane in
between the two lanes.

It has been demonstrated in the past that introducing cycle lanes
increase the speed of passing traffic and reduces the passing distance
that drivers give to cyclists.  A situation now experienced in
Prittlewell Chase, which greatly increases the danger to cyclists.
(http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopModules/Articles/ArticlesView.aspx?TabID=0&ItemID=290&mid=13641)  In a meeting I had with Paul Mathieson & Neil Hoskins of the cycle town project both stated awareness of this research and also that other Councils are removing lanes as a result, therefore I am disappointed that the same flawed designs are being followed in a town claiming to have a Cycle Town status.

A better option would be to follow the original strategy as agreed
between the project and the Cycle Group, namely to use cycle logos
(diagram 1057) on the carriageway instead of dedicated lanes.  These
would allow cyclists to choose the safest road position, as determined
by the excellent bikeability training provided by the Council's staff,
whilst also alerting drivers that they should expect cyclists on the
road in the vicinity.

I have cc'd The Evening Echo since their editorial of 24/08/2010
commented that cyclists should put forward proposals instead of just
complaining.  In November 2008 local cyclists put forward three options
for Western Esplanade, only for the Council to fail to consult further,
to apparently ignore our options, to completely fail to address the core
requirements that we stated cyclists needed in this area, and as a
result to implement a scheme that has made cycling in that area more
dangerous than it was before.  Please do not repeat the mistake of
ignoring the cycling community input.

Kind regards,

Nuttycyclist,
On behalf of CTC, the National Cyclists' Organisation CTC Homepage - CTC the UK's national cyclists' organisation (http://www.ctc.org.uk)


With regards the Prittlewell Chase scheme I am aware that some people, such as Domestique, have no major qualms about the scheme but do know that vehicles intrude into it; I trust that my balanced comments and proposal above do not go against these views.  I have tried to remain factually focussed and with the needs of all cyclists in mind, be it from the novice to the experienced and from young to old.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on October 07, 2010, 11:35:07 pm
Highlights from last nights cycle forum meeting.

...... Neil Hoskins assures us that the loose top surface is only temporary. The loose stuff should bed in or be swept aside after a few weeks of use leaving a solid surface. Part of the reason for choosing this surface was to increase the noise of tyres and footsteps on a shared path (peds can hear a cyclist or other peds approaching from behind which is probably a good idea in an unlit muggers paradise).
.....


Wish I'd had the chance to be there instead of slaving away to pay the mortgage.


Errr....    if it was chosen deliberately then why is it only temporary?   Either it remains loose, crunchy and warns pedestrians that a cyclist has just lost control and fallen off, or it is swept aside and provides a good cycling surface that is silent.

Kind regards,

Mr Confused.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on October 07, 2010, 11:40:41 pm
The worst cycle lanes I have seen are in Hamlet Court Road, near the junction of Canewdon Road.

This (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=southend&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=17.413577,39.375&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Southend-on-Sea,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.538842,0.693405&spn=0.004464,0.009613&z=17&layer=c&cbll=51.538917,0.693465&panoid=zzOYUaanRRFCqjTLneQ5SQ&cbp=12,204.11,,0,1.08) is how it used to be. The cycle lane has been shoehorned between the parking are on the left and the land for traffic.

Bear in mind that the "central reservation" is actually a parking area.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on October 07, 2010, 11:48:24 pm
Maintenance. Winter maintenance (i.e. gritting of the cycle paths). This was discussed but the overall impression that we were left with was that it is probably not going to happen. The reasoning is that a major cycle path like the eastern/western esplanade gets a maximum of 500 cyclists a day on a sunny summers day. On a freezing icy winters day they expect only a handful of the hardiest cyclists to still be out and about. Basically the argument is that the numbers do not stack up to warrant spending the time and money on gritting the cycle paths.


I note from last week's Standard Recorder that Southend have announced that they have stockpiled "super salt grit" in preparation for the winter.  This is Thawrox Plus, and is mixed with molasses to stick to the road surface much longer.

errr....


Isn't this the stuff that cyclists and motorcyclists have been commenting on because it makes the non-icy roads more slippery than anything other than pure ice?
UK bikers skate on sticky grit • The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/13/sticky_grit/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on October 08, 2010, 05:17:20 pm
The worst cycle lanes I have seen are in Hamlet Court Road, near the junction of Canewdon Road.

Bear in mind that the "central reservation" is actually a parking area.

I always thought it wasnt a parking area  :-\
I am sure there was an incident some years ago when everyone who was parked in the central reservation was given tickets  :-\
Despite that being on the doorstep, I really dont know for certain though.
The filter lane though, well that sucks and isnt used by me   :(

I also have doubts about what the proposed route is going to achieve.
Tbh I am getting t the point when whatever the council and other big employers in the town really dont care so long as car drivers are kept happy.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on October 09, 2010, 09:28:17 pm
Prospective new Transport and Planning officer for SBC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nySs1cEq5rs)..?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on October 09, 2010, 09:30:42 pm
The worst cycle lanes I have seen are in Hamlet Court Road, near the junction of Canewdon Road.

Bear in mind that the "central reservation" is actually a parking area.

I always thought it wasnt a parking area  :-\
I am sure there was an incident some years ago when everyone who was parked in the central reservation was given tickets  :-\
Despite that being on the doorstep, I really dont know for certain though.
The filter lane though, well that sucks and isnt used by me   :(

When I went to pick Dez up from Westcliff Station last Saturday night, it was full of parked cars. I don't go there very often though so that could just have been Saturday night.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on October 14, 2010, 11:11:34 am
On page five of the Echo today a piece from Flewitt says that the Thorpe Hall cycle lane won't be built. Well done Nutty et al who grinked.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on October 14, 2010, 12:13:31 pm
On page five of the Echo today a piece from Flewitt says that the Thorpe Hall cycle lane won't be built.

Falls off chair in amazement.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on October 14, 2010, 12:40:14 pm
'Kin 'Ell!!!!    :o
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on October 14, 2010, 12:47:23 pm
On page five of the Echo today a piece from Flewitt says that the Thorpe Hall cycle lane won't be built.

Falls off chair in amazement.

Having recovered, I went out and bought the paper.

I have now called for smelling salts and oxygen!





Mind you...

Quote from: Mr Flewitt in the paper
"In the future we will be looking at having pre-consultations about any schemes."

I've only been calling for that, and offering my services free of charge, for the last ten years  ::-)   Also, what's the point of the Cycle Forum that Myself, wowbagger, Fatbloke, 2_Flat_Erics, and other members of cycling organisations and the public attend?  I thought we were supposed to be part of this pre-consultation - even though we have been ignored to date...
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: hellymedic on October 14, 2010, 12:53:30 pm
On page five of the Echo today a piece from Flewitt says that the Thorpe Hall cycle lane won't be built.

Falls off chair in amazement.

How's the chair?  ;) ;) ;D
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on October 14, 2010, 03:27:30 pm
Page 8 of today's echo has a piece on a "Tweed Ride" which will feature some vintage bikes and will set off from Southend Pier at 7pm on Friday and head for Old Leigh.


Would anybody be interested in joining me in a ride along the seafront Cycle Track from Chalkwell Shelter to Southend pier on Friday evening, starting at around 19:05?

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: montysboy on October 14, 2010, 03:31:21 pm
Why not dress up in tweed and join in the fun of the official ride instead?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on October 14, 2010, 03:41:53 pm
Because I want to see what the effect of two groups of cyclists meeting each other on an underwidth path is; especially as the last of the rush hour traffic will still be going past a couple of inches from the cyclists.


I'll happily turn around and join the fun of the ride afterwards, I'm already wondering whether I can strip down the Sturmey on the Moulton tonight so that I can be on an older bike. 

I'm impressed by the rides that the Council have put on and how well they've got bums on saddles (even though cycling numbers have increased nationally during the same period).  It's just a shame that their engineering departments are undermining these efforts by building such sub standard infrastructure.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: montysboy on October 14, 2010, 03:47:13 pm
I've been wanting to join those rides for a long time, but have never got home form work in time - they are not at a commuter friendly time unfortunately....   :(

I am working from home this week so am wondering whether to turn up on a modern bike but just dressed in tweed - did it say that pashley's were a requirement  ;D

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on October 14, 2010, 05:13:27 pm
Page 8 of today's echo has a piece on a "Tweed Ride" which will feature some vintage bikes and will set off from Southend Pier at 7pm on Friday and head for Old Leigh.


Would anybody be interested in joining me in a ride along the seafront Cycle Track from Chalkwell Shelter to Southend pier on Friday evening, starting at around 19:05?



If I feel up to it I may pootle along on the 1950's BSA starrider.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on October 14, 2010, 07:59:58 pm
Because I want to see what the effect of two groups of cyclists meeting each other on an underwidth path is; especially as the last of the rush hour traffic will still be going past a couple of inches from the cyclists.




It would also be interesting to see the effect lots of white lights heading towards them on their left will have on westbound drivers...
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on October 14, 2010, 11:24:54 pm
I'm waiting for the clocks to change, at which point on the first dark rush hour I will be testing the lighting situation I commented on way way back at the start of this thread.

e.g. Southend Cycle Town - part 2 (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=31115.msg586984#msg586984)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on October 15, 2010, 05:07:14 pm
Page 8 of today's echo has a piece on a "Tweed Ride" which will feature some vintage bikes and will set off from Southend Pier at 7pm on Friday and head for Old Leigh.


Would anybody be interested in joining me in a ride along the seafront Cycle Track from Chalkwell Shelter to Southend pier on Friday evening, starting at around 19:05?



Bugger.   Work has got in the way.  I can't get there.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on October 15, 2010, 07:58:30 pm
I went. Maybe thirty or so people gathered by the pier. A few ordinaries etc. Mostly it appeared to be a clothing event.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on October 15, 2010, 08:18:24 pm
I went. Maybe thirty or so people gathered by the pier. A few ordinaries etc. Mostly it appeared to be a clothing event.

It was a bit nippy for an impromptu NBR.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on October 15, 2010, 08:23:43 pm
I went. Maybe thirty or so people gathered by the pier. A few ordinaries etc. Mostly it appeared to be a clothing event.

It was a bit nippy for an impromptu NBR.

A few layers and I was lovely and warm by the time I got to the pier!  ;)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on October 15, 2010, 08:42:33 pm
That said, it is now raining. Hope all that tweed is scotch-guarded!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on October 30, 2010, 09:19:51 am
Prittle Brook Greenway continues, for now!
 
Old kerb stones separate what will be the new path from the allotments access road.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TMvUTD_W67I/AAAAAAAAGEQ/51DbstozXnU/s640/pa303049.jpg)

Signage needs updating.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TMvUTLFtaRI/AAAAAAAAGEU/vqPNTQAALfM/s640/pa303050.jpg)

A better view.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TMvUTbYqjxI/AAAAAAAAGEc/z65jorrzvGA/s640/pa303051.jpg)

I didn't go much beyond this point as the dog was tired, bless.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on November 03, 2010, 07:06:07 am
Walking the dog I noticed that this pole (visible in the distance as that big, brown, sticky up thing)

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TCUfwxAVBsI/AAAAAAAAFqc/jGHaEvXSyVw/s640/p6252540.jpg)

has been moved off the path and onto the verge.  :o  :thumbsup:

P.S. The path is officially opened 18/11.

P.P.S The gravel is still loose and pooling on that corner!  ::-)

Edit the path is opened tomorrow, I had been misinformed.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: SlowCoach on November 03, 2010, 11:53:20 am
P.P.S The gravel is still loose and pooling on that corner!  ::-)

If its deep enough it will soften the landing  :-\
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on November 03, 2010, 04:41:39 pm
Is anyone going to use this path  :-\
Other than the shitmachine dog walkers that is  :-\
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on November 03, 2010, 04:48:10 pm
Is anyone going to use this path  :-\
Other than the shitmachine dog walkers that is  :-\
I've used it this morning, if I had a commute I wouldn't use it but for a gentle pootle it's fine. I also walked my dog along part of it.

The path that goes north to the hospital appears to be staying as a footpath only.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on November 10, 2010, 10:22:38 am
The Greenway, now officially opened, at the junction of the hospital/allotments path near to Chase School.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TNpyTRUMWsI/AAAAAAAAGE4/WXClrJEfiig/s640/pb103394.jpg)

Needs to have the tarmac laid but appears to be widened up to Southbourne Grove.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on November 10, 2010, 10:30:57 am
Is that a shadow on the bend or a damn great tyre catching crack in the surface? If the latter then at least it matches much of the rest of Southend. Nearly took a header when riding down Chalkwell Ave. a few weeks ago. The surface there is lethal (for cyclists) in places.
It was a surprise to me as I usually cut up along the Cliffs and through to the London Road to get to Leigh and Hadleigh. If I had been riding at night I would not have seen the cracks.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on November 10, 2010, 05:10:47 pm
Is that a shadow on the bend or a damn great tyre catching crack in the surface?
It's shadow and old tarmac meeting new tarmac plus a soupçon of mini ramp.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on November 17, 2010, 07:52:03 am
They have started to lay the top surface on the Greenway between Gainsborough Drive and, assuming it's the newly surfaced sections, to the Hospital turn off by Westcliff allotments/Lancaster School.

A tarmac and chipping surface prior to the pea shingle.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TOOIXbh1aLI/AAAAAAAAGFY/y9YayS9k2FQ/s640/pb173472.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on December 09, 2010, 09:04:10 am
Southend 'not bidding for sustainable transport funds'? That was the part I picked up on in this story:

Southend West MP asks for cash to support centenarian cyclists (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8723620.___We_must_do_more_for_100_year_old_cyclists_____insist_MP_David_Amess/)

'The discussion in Parliament said cash was available from the local transport fund to support cycling provision.

But Mark Flewitt, Southend councillor responsible for transport and planning, said the council was unlikely to make such a bid.'
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on December 09, 2010, 02:34:20 pm
Blame it on Wowbagger and the rest of the loony lefties.  I bet the council want to take out all their frustration on all cyclists as a result.  ;D



No, I'm not being entirely serious.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on December 09, 2010, 02:54:42 pm
But, since they have done so much for cycling in the last year, they have no need for such funds, being a utopia of sustainable transport.



No, I'm not being entirely serious either.  But, surely, neither are Southend Council
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on January 24, 2011, 12:38:39 pm
These posts went in today, the first and fourth wooden ones, on the Greenway, either side of Gainsborough Drive. No evidence, yet, of any hinged posts going in at other sites along the path.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TT1xT-gumcI/AAAAAAAAGHE/rkBVM5ziiWo/s640/p1243954.jpg)

Are they for a "feature" to block off the bare earth so that walkers and cyclists don't get muddy? Or is there going to be a gate, the kissing kind, to stop users of powered two wheelers from using the path?
I hope for the former!

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TT1xURMZQhI/AAAAAAAAGHI/By7ctEqbovs/s640/p1243956.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on January 24, 2011, 07:57:40 pm
It'll be to stop ANY two wheeled transport from using the path if I know Southend BC!!   ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on January 24, 2011, 08:11:29 pm
I fear what is planned is similar to what we have at the footpath entrance to East Beach by the level crossing in Shoebury High Street.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on January 25, 2011, 02:39:48 pm
It's for gates!  :facepalm:
But they're to stop cars and larger vehicles. An approximately 1.5m gap is left for walkers, cyclists and kids/yoofs on mini motos, etc.

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TT7fvGI2DOI/AAAAAAAAGHc/yZ-QumuVEX0/s640/p1253957.jpg)

This one shows the post that will hold the gate closed and the gap remaining for peds and bikes.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TT7fv6i4vaI/AAAAAAAAGHg/bAyZtJ64PkI/s640/p1253958.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on January 25, 2011, 05:27:25 pm
Does anyone use the path for cycling?
I ride past it every morning and I dont think I have seen anyone cycling yet :-\
Plenty of shit-machines and their walkers though  :hand:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on January 25, 2011, 09:55:52 pm
Does anyone know anything about this?

Bike grants for clubs in Southend (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8811728.Bike_grants_for_clubs_in_Southend/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Auntie Helen on January 25, 2011, 10:09:53 pm
It's for gates!  :facepalm:
But they're to stop cars and larger vehicles. An approximately 1.5m gap is left for walkers, cyclists and kids/yoofs on mini motos, etc.

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_45o2t790K90/TT7fvGI2DOI/AAAAAAAAGHc/yZ-QumuVEX0/s640/p1253957.jpg)
I could probably cycle under that!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Regulator on January 26, 2011, 07:39:21 am
Does anyone know anything about this?

Bike grants for clubs in Southend (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8811728.Bike_grants_for_clubs_in_Southend/)

It's part of the CTC/ASDA Bike Club scheme.  If you want money get it now.  Bike Club may not be around for much longer...
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on January 26, 2011, 11:29:19 am
Does anyone use the path for cycling?
I ride past it every morning and I dont think I have seen anyone cycling yet :-\
Plenty of shit-machines and their walkers though  :hand:
When I walk my dog in the morning I see a few commuters and a few school children riding, all male though.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on January 26, 2011, 11:32:42 am
Does anyone use the path for cycling?
I ride past it every morning and I dont think I have seen anyone cycling yet :-\
Plenty of shit-machines and their walkers though  :hand:
When I walk my dog in the morning I see a few commuters and a few school children riding, all male though.

It just seems a massive effort/expense of behalf of the council for little return.
Maybe they should spend some more money advertising it
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on February 26, 2011, 12:18:09 pm
Cyclists should use cycle ways and get out of our way (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8874313.Southend_s_City_Beach_work_is_nearing_completion/).  (8th comment) ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on February 27, 2011, 09:14:44 pm
Anybody seen Cuckoo Corner recently?


(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/Southend%20Cycle%20Town/p2254063.jpg)
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/Southend%20Cycle%20Town/p2254072.jpg)


Welcome to Southend NO CYCLING Town.  A town where millions have been spent on major projects designed to improve traffic flow.

It is possible to cycle into Cuckoo Corner from Manners Way, but beware if you do as there are Cycling Prohibited signs on every single exit.  You can't cycle off of the roundabout!    (It'll make a fantastic long distance ride.  Enter roundabout, do not exit, continue for x laps until exhausted).

Please note that you can't cycle onto the roundabout from Princes Avenue.


<bangs head against wall>

I'm sure it'll all be explained to us when the Council do what they promise and bring us the plans for this scheme during its design phase.


As Brighton hits the media ridicule for spending a fortune to remove a cycle path, I wonder if Southend's remedial expenditure, all a cost to the tax payer, will ever come to light?   (any media folk on here?)

I give up.   I really really do  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on February 27, 2011, 11:09:49 pm
Do the signs apply to the road or the pavement?

Seen today. No parking ticket. Not so smart.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/NotSoSmart.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on February 27, 2011, 11:23:09 pm
I'm sure the Council will claim that they apply to the pavements (where you aren't allowed to cycle anyway  :facepalm:) and have been used to mark the end of their new shared use cycle path.

Just look at the one in Victoria Avenue though (my 2nd photo).  It's on the kerb, 7 or 8 feet away from the pavement and separated from it by a shrubbery.

The sign they should have looked for was the "end of cycle path" sign.


Using the signs as they have will have motorists yelling at cyclists for riding where not allowed - as they already shout at us for riding alongside the cycle paths (see your link above).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Simonb on February 28, 2011, 12:46:20 am
they already shout at us for riding alongside the cycle paths

So ignore them.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on February 28, 2011, 12:57:10 am
they already shout at us for riding alongside the cycle paths

So ignore them.

Oh I do  ;D      Occasionally you get a real violent idiot swerving at you and with passengers leaning out of the windows trying to push you onto the path, but I've got away with avoiding that so far.   It's just a fact of life of living here in Southend.  I wonder if the council will mention it as part of their bid to become a city?


I just can't believe that a council claiming funding to create a cycle town can spend it in erecting "No Cycling" signs.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Regulator on February 28, 2011, 06:59:01 am
I'm sure the Council will claim that they apply to the pavements (where you aren't allowed to cycle anyway  :facepalm:) and have been used to mark the end of their new shared use cycle path.

Just look at the one in Victoria Avenue though (my 2nd photo).  It's on the kerb, 7 or 8 feet away from the pavement and separated from it by a shrubbery.

The sign they should have looked for was the "end of cycle path" sign.


Using the signs as they have will have motorists yelling at cyclists for riding where not allowed - as they already shout at us for riding alongside the cycle paths (see your link above).

Wrong signs = no legal force.  Plus I'll place money they're not backed up by the correct Traffic Management Order...
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on February 28, 2011, 07:52:31 am
Quote
just can't believe that a council claiming funding to create a cycle town can spend it in erecting "No Cycling" signs.

I wouldnt use Victoria Ave to get over the 127, its just to busy nowadays. But that No Cycling sign looks very much as though it applies to the road  :(
Like you say I am sure so bod will be along soon from the council to explain it all  :-\
With the new sainsbury development in the pipe line that whole area is going to be a nightmare.
Anyway when is the three years up, you know when Anna Waite said the town would be transformed for cyclists, there can not be long left now  :(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on February 28, 2011, 08:29:53 am
Does the council actually have the power to ban cycling on sections of public road?

Maybee we should get a big group of cyclists together and all ride on mass onto the roundabout and just take it over. Completly block it until the police and newspapers turn up.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on February 28, 2011, 08:35:43 am
Does the council actually have the power to ban cycling on sections of public road?

Maybee we should get a big group of cyclists together and all ride on mass onto the roundabout and just take it over. Completly block it until the police and newspapers turn up.

Wouldn't work. From what I've seen the vast majority of Southend's 'cyclists' think they are only allowed to use the seafront.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: teethgrinder on February 28, 2011, 11:29:46 pm
Perhaps combine a CM with a FNRTTC?

Unfortunately, I think you're right Clandy. Cyclists do seem segregated into different cycling groups and unwilling to unite and kick up much of a fuss.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on February 28, 2011, 11:33:04 pm
Does the council actually have the power to ban cycling on sections of public road?

Maybee we should get a big group of cyclists together and all ride on mass onto the roundabout and just take it over. Completly block it until the police and newspapers turn up.

Wouldn't work. From what I've seen the vast majority of Southend's 'cyclists' think they are only allowed to use the seafront.

Q) Why do they think they are only allowed to use the seafront?
A) Because the council have fallen into the usual trap of believing that constructing paths is the only option.  They have only really constructed this high profile path*.

Just think about how good Southend could have been if investment had been made in 20mph zones, plentiful signage of routes through quiet roads, etc etc etc





* As opposed to the fantastic path alongside Royal Artillery Way, which is an excellent example of how it could be done.  Trouble is it's not obvious as it's set back from the road and runs behind houses.  You need to know it's there in order to use it.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on March 01, 2011, 10:53:01 pm
Have there been to any meetings of the cycle forum recently? It seems like months and months since the last one. Maybe they've scrapped them.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 01, 2011, 11:07:47 pm
The last meeting I was invited to, but couldn't attend due to work, was September.

I have been promised by Paul Mathieson that in order to make the project better the frequency of the meetings will increase and become more regular so that we can review their designs.



Does "more frequent" equal "cancelled"?

Why does "empty promises" ring bells?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on March 02, 2011, 09:59:54 am
The first time I drove along Priory Crescent after the white lines had been painted on the new road surface, I noticed that the "dropped" kerb up which cyclists were expected to leave the carriageway actually was a barrier a good 2" high. I emailed Colette Kemp (Road Safety Officer) and the next time I went someone had put a botched-up tarmac ramp in, which hopefully will be enough to prevent cyclists coming a dreadful cropper as their front wheel gets knocked to one side as they attempt to make the turn onto the cycle path.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 02, 2011, 10:39:07 am
Thanks for that wowbagger.  I spotted the "tarmac spillage" at the weekend and chuckled to myself that they'd made such an awful cockup. This isn't the first time they've had to put tarmac ramps down because they failed to install dropped kerbs that provided a flush surface transition as called for in the guidelines.


When will they learn?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on March 02, 2011, 11:01:26 am
Thanks for that wowbagger.  I spotted the "tarmac spillage" at the weekend and chuckled to myself that they'd made such an awful cockup. This isn't the first time they've had to put tarmac ramps down because they failed to install dropped kerbs that provided a flush surface transition as called for in the guidelines.


When will they learn?

When litigation resulting from their incompetence ends up costing a fortune?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on March 02, 2011, 11:12:54 am
Anyone know who 'BD' is? Are they a CTC member?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on March 02, 2011, 12:28:58 pm

When will they learn?

No need to, they got what they wanted, the money.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on March 02, 2011, 06:31:58 pm
I have just sent an email, using Nutty's photo.

"At the last forum it was stated that the frequency of the meetings would increase and become more regular so that we can review the designs of the 4 ongoing major road projects in the town.

As there hasn't been a meeting since (to which I've been invited) can I assume that "more frequent" is Southend Council code for "Cancelled"?

Obviously the input of cyclists is not heeded or welcome so I presume that is why no further meetings have taken place.

I leave you with a photo of the approach to Cuckoo Corner which I think sums up the Council's real feeling towards cyclists. A fine example for a "cycling town"."


Those of you on the mailing list will have been copied.
 
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 04, 2011, 02:41:21 pm
It's not on the Echo website, but yesterday's paper has a full page spread about how the council is to spend £75,000 in re-marking the central parking bays so that you can drive into them (instead of driving past and reversing in), and also add disabled bays and a taxi rank at the same time.

I've an outstanding letter to the Council, which does comment on the seafront fiasco, but I need to check a couple of facts over the weekend.  I will be including a question as to whether when they re-paint the bays they'll leave the carriageway wide enough for cars to overtake cyclists (as opposed to the current 3.25m width which is on the boundary of the width that DfT say should be avoided).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on March 04, 2011, 05:18:50 pm
It's not on the Echo website, but yesterday's paper has a full page spread about how the council is to spend £75,000 in re-marking the central parking bays so that you can drive into them (instead of driving past and reversing in), and also add disabled bays and a taxi rank at the same time.


Now on the Echo site

Parking bays fiasco will cost £75,000 to put right (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8888630.Parking_bays_fiasco_will_cost___75_000_to_put_right/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on March 04, 2011, 07:30:32 pm
No apologies from Waite, blaming someone else as usual.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on March 06, 2011, 10:20:19 am
I've just been reviewing various emails from last year concerning the Western Esplanade track…

9th March 2010, Cllr Waite:

Thank you for taking the time to e-mail me and sincerely apologise for not having responded sooner.
I think that thee may be a misunderstanding, there is no intention to change the existing cycle path to the east, other than perhaps in the light of your comments, but my comments were in respect of the new path to go in to the west. This sector will be both lower than the promenade and higher than the carriage way and it will be fairly regularly defined by sating planting etc from the promenade. Also given the parking along this stretch I do not anticipate that speeding will be a problem, though clearly there will always be some that do speed.
A off road route does encourage more cyclists to use it and indeed numbers using the eastern section steadily grow.
Clearly if you wish to cycle on the road you may still do so as there is nothing to prevent this but some do feel happier off road especially those with children or those returning to cycling after a long period etc. The seafront route is part of the sustrans routes and will by March 2011 link from Chalkwell to the MOD, the final Southend sector west to Hadleigh is currently being considered and funding sourced.
 The cycle track is considered wide enough for leisure cycling, those wishing to ‘push on’ can clearly use the carriageway and many do.
 Crossing in front of cyclists is always going to be a problem just as a pedestrian may walk out in front of a motorist. It is the responsibility of the cyclist to anticipate such occurrences and to cycle accordingly. However I will look to see if we can improve signage to help deter this.
 It is not possible to reduce car parking, this parking is vital for the seafront users and there is adequate parking elsewhere but not a surplus.
 I many European cities there is far greater cycling culture, but this has grown over time and indeed cyclists are allowed to used the pavements in some instances with all the problems associated with that.
I will be passing your comments to officers who will consider your points and will respond directly to you.
 I have visited Copenhagen and several other cycling cities and yes they are models that we aspire to but we are far further back than they and what we are doing is making the similar sort of start that they did some 30 years ago.



07 April 2010, Mehmet Mazahr:

"Once the scheme is formally opened, the parking regulations will be enforced. The yellow line waiting restrictions apply to the back of footway, therefore any vehicles parking on the cycle track or the promenade may receive a PCN."

"The approach that we have adopted in the design of this cycle route is similar in many ways to two-way and contra-flow cycle lanes in towns and cities across Europe (e.g. Copenhagen and Stockholm), where the only delineation between motorists and cyclists is a standard kerb. Some of these schemes are considered best practice and as a Cycling Demonstration Town this is what we also aspire to."
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 06, 2011, 11:38:43 am
Just spotted.

The Ace shakedown ride this year is 25th April
Whats on Events - Southend-on-Sea Borough Council (http://www.southend.gov.uk/events/event/578/)

What's the betting the seafront path will once again be used for motorcycle parking and not available for cycling?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on March 06, 2011, 12:07:04 pm
Just spotted.

The Ace shakedown ride this year is 25th April
Whats on Events - Southend-on-Sea Borough Council (http://www.southend.gov.uk/events/event/578/)

What's the betting the seafront path will once again be used for motorcycle parking and not available for cycling?

Why cant they use the new space at the City Beech rather than the cycle path. If they are using it that is  :-\
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on March 06, 2011, 12:19:47 pm
Just spotted.

The Ace shakedown ride this year is 25th April
Whats on Events - Southend-on-Sea Borough Council (http://www.southend.gov.uk/events/event/578/)

What's the betting the seafront path will once again be used for motorcycle parking and not available for cycling?

Why cant they use the new space at the City Beech rather than the cycle path. If they are using it that is  :-\

… and get oil drips all over the nice new flagstones?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on March 08, 2011, 10:17:31 pm
Went and had a look at how the City beach is coming along today. Now, I know that it isn't finished yet, and that there will undoubtedly be paint and warning signs etc…. but can anyone see the eight inch step in this picture?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/ClipartEtc/step.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on March 09, 2011, 07:53:23 pm
Has anyone been through the garrison in the past year or two? There's a path that connects to the sea wall that is completely unrideable unless you are on an mtb, and even then it's a pig.

You cycle up Mess Road from Gunners Park. If you want to continue along the sea wall to East Beach you have to cross a small green at the top of Mess Road. The marked cycle lane takes you to it:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/Garrisonpath1.jpg)

You are then greeted with this:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/garrisonpath2.jpg)

Unfortunately it is just mud covered with a loose layer of this:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/garrisonpath3.jpg)

Impossible to ride on the Moulton and extremely difficult on the Dawes. Like every other cyclist taking this route I just ride on the grass. (which is daft as the path was put in to stop people riding on the grass).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on March 09, 2011, 08:57:00 pm
You used to be able to use a pathed path next to the wall, but now inside the building area.
I use the car park to the right in your picture and loop back onto Mess Road
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on March 12, 2011, 07:20:44 am
A cycle hire scheme for Southend? Possibly!

Southend businessman reveals winner of Who Wants to be a Miller on Air? contest (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8904788.Winners_of_businessman_s___100_000_competition_are_revealed/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on March 12, 2011, 07:54:50 am

    YouTube
        - Where am I supposed to ride?
   (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqfC1YTOVcI)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on March 12, 2011, 08:00:51 am

    YouTube
        - Where am I supposed to ride?
   (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-cDfkubmmI)
You must be an excellent rider! The way you handled those anti motor vehicle white lines, incredible! Those lines stop cars you know!!  ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on March 12, 2011, 08:13:33 am

    YouTube
        - Where am I supposed to ride?
   (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqfC1YTOVcI)
You must be an excellent rider! The way you handled those anti motor vehicle white lines, incredible! Those lines stop cars you know!!  ::-)


… and I managed to scale all those enormous car stopping measures on 20" wheels…  :smug:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on March 12, 2011, 09:29:23 am
Sorry folks. I had to change the video. The first one I uploaded was the wrong edit.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on March 12, 2011, 09:37:23 am
What amazes me that video is the date.
Despite everything that has been brought to the councils attention concerning the path, they employ contractors with what seems like no consideration for cyclists.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on March 12, 2011, 09:41:45 am
The thing is I am well aware that the sensible thing to do was dismount, cross the road, and continue on the other side. I took the chance and didn't because I wanted to demonstrate what inexperienced cyclists might do. (if the traffic had been heavy or moving faster I would not have done it)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on March 12, 2011, 01:47:08 pm
I would've done what you did in those circumstances, light traffic etc, no problem.

What are they building/repairing there, anybody know?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on March 12, 2011, 02:13:42 pm
The second van was a lighting contractor so possibly something to do with street lighting?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on March 12, 2011, 02:18:03 pm
The second van was a lighting contractor so possibly something to do with street lighting?
I've noticed, when walking the dog down there last week, that there are floor spotlights to highlight the dead/dying palm trees, so 'twas probably that.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on March 12, 2011, 02:20:38 pm
The second van was a lighting contractor so possibly something to do with street lighting?
I've noticed, when walking the dog down there last week, that there are floor spotlights to highlight the dead/dying palm trees, so 'twas probably that.

Those fuzzy sticks are palm trees?  :o   ;)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on March 14, 2011, 07:31:59 am
'Shared space' provided you stay between the lines…

Cyclists and pedestrians to share City Beach space (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8904720.Cyclists_and_pedestrians_to_share_City_Beach_space/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Clandy on March 14, 2011, 03:37:39 pm
Good grief. The way people are carrying on below that story you'd think we all cycled on pavements at 80mph with 30mm cannon blazing and scythes attached to our wheels.  ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Andrij on March 14, 2011, 03:40:33 pm
Good grief. The way people are carrying on you'd think we all cycled on pavements at 80mph with 30mm cannon blazing and scythes attached to our wheels.  ::-)

Only in our dreams.
 
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on March 15, 2011, 11:54:02 am
It looks like the Greenway is going to get a low boundary fence and, at least on the corner section of Vic. Ave. to Prit. Chs, a light pole. Doesn't seem to be markings on the brook side of the path though.

Low fence posts and boundary marks?
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_45o2t790K90/TX9RmkjYV6I/AAAAAAAAGLI/wtbYlr279-k/s640/p3154628.jpg)

Light pole position?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_45o2t790K90/TX9Rk0_05JI/AAAAAAAAGLE/g50ivNFi4o4/s640/p3154630.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 16, 2011, 12:32:08 am
A cycle hire scheme for Southend? Possibly!

Southend businessman reveals winner of Who Wants to be a Miller on Air? contest (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8904788.Winners_of_businessman_s___100_000_competition_are_revealed/)

I recall the same idea being raised before at the Cycle Group meetings where the stakeholders and public meet with the council.  Was it three years ago now?  I really can't remember.


So we pushed for a cycle hire scheme, the council ignored us, and now funding's run out there's another option for a cycle hire scheme?   How coincidental.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 16, 2011, 12:34:07 am
'Shared space' provided you stay between the lines…

Cyclists and pedestrians to share City Beach space (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/8904720.Cyclists_and_pedestrians_to_share_City_Beach_space/)

I think I mentioned on the other thread that I recall the plan the council brought to the Cycle Group was for shared space and specifically avoided any painted lines.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on March 16, 2011, 12:39:46 am
It looks like the Greenway is going to get a low boundary fence and, at least on the corner section of Vic. Ave. to Prit. Chs, a light pole. Doesn't seem to be markings on the brook side of the path though.

Can they really make it any worse?




I have complained about the loose gravel, and they referred me to a wonderful scheme in Woking alongside the canal.

I have gone to the the canal to inspect this, in company of the local riders, and it is indeed a thing to behold.  No loose gravel and a path that I'd love to ride on.  Why can't Southend copy the schemes they are claiming to copy?

Then you show me photographs of them putting in bollards to stop cyclists being able to ride off the path to avoid pedestrians and loose dogs.  Or are those items that cyclists will hit when they fall off when they touch the brakes on all that loose gravel?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on March 21, 2011, 08:28:10 am
Where I thought that there might be light poles going in they've planted trees, sycamores I think.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_45o2t790K90/TYcLmzeYJ4I/AAAAAAAAGMI/bJ3QMhrA2xU/s640/p3214693.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 04, 2011, 12:44:25 pm
May not be putting in a low fence, although what those posts are for... ???
Saw them putting spiky plants and non spiky plants.

Spikes near the border of private and public land and if there is room then non spiky plants.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_45o2t790K90/TZmtXJ4AVeI/AAAAAAAAGM0/YYD_PCivvIQ/s640/p4044770.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on April 04, 2011, 01:29:55 pm
Looking at that last image- the posts could be for a fence- to reinforce (not strength wise) the boundary between public space and private property. The extension on the side of the building and the base of the wall seem to encompase the previous boundary (the concrete fence posts are 'growing' from the base of the wall).
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 04, 2011, 01:52:20 pm
Looking at that last image- the posts could be for a fence-
Those posts, the concrete ones on the last image, used to be an old fence. It's this image and its posts
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_45o2t790K90/TX9RmkjYV6I/AAAAAAAAGLI/wtbYlr279-k/s640/p3154628.jpg)
That I so badly referred to.  :facepalm:

Those short posts remain, as of today, and there have been several different kinds of spiky bush, non spiky bush, and general plantage put in the ground there.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on April 06, 2011, 02:52:50 pm
 :facepalm: Two new posts, one shown here, about one third the way in from the green fence. I almost walked into it this morning.  :o
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_45o2t790K90/TZxvAkH5vdI/AAAAAAAAGNs/dGMHj0Ld4tc/s640/P4064801.JPG)
The perfect height for a line at handlebar level!

I wonder if a gate or fence across the path is to go in? To slow things down for the corner.   ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: David Martin on April 06, 2011, 04:02:11 pm
:facepalm: Two new posts, one shown here, about one third the way in from the green fence. I almost walked into it this morning.  :o
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_45o2t790K90/TZxvAkH5vdI/AAAAAAAAGNs/dGMHj0Ld4tc/s640/P4064801.JPG)
The perfect height for a line at handlebar level!

I wonder if a gate or fence across the path is to go in? To slow things down for the corner.   ::-)

Have a look at the 'how to beat up your council' thread and the design manuals therin. FOI for the risk assessment and the design standards to which it complies..

..d
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on April 22, 2011, 09:44:51 pm
Okay, so it's Good Friday. A bank Holiday with exceptionally warm weather. I thought I'd take my first cycle along the seafront through City Beach.

It was, as I suspected it would be, a complete nightmare. On the dedicated cycle path there were peds everywhere. So many that I have to stop to recharge the AirZound.
The shared use parts of the Golden Mile were the worst.

This is the most cycling unfriendly cycle path in the whole fricking world!!!!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 23, 2011, 10:24:57 am
I am sure I saw Anna Waite cycling along the path near Shoebury/ShoreHouse on Monday afternoon  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on April 23, 2011, 11:46:48 am
Okay, so it's Good Friday. A bank Holiday with exceptionally warm weather. I thought I'd take my first cycle along the seafront through City Beach.

I was, as I suspected it would be, a complete nightmare. On the ddedicated cycle path there were peds everywhere. So many that I have to stop to recharge the AirZound.
The shared use parts of the Golden Mile were the worst.

This is the most cycling unfriendly cycle path in the whole fricking world!!!!

Indeed.
    YouTube
        - Good Friday in Southend 'Cycle Town'.
   (http://youtu.be/EE_O8cPQ1Lg)


It is best used in the early morning.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on April 23, 2011, 05:44:24 pm
AirZounds on pedestrians?  I have done it, rarely, and it's almost never right.  They are allowed on cycle paths after all.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: rower40 on April 23, 2011, 08:21:41 pm
AirZounds on pedestrians?  I have done it, rarely, and it's almost never right.  They are allowed on cycle paths after all.
I AirZounded a pedestrian once.  Without looking, she was about to step off a kerb into the road on which I was approaching.  She jumped back, and she and her friends then giggled and thanked me as I passed.

But I gave it large with my "Dring-Dring" bell on the Grasshopper while descending the Tissington Trail at R17.  Most pedestrian and cyclist recipients took it in the manner intended - "Hello, here I am, approaching your position quite quickly, I don't mind stopping but I'd rather not", instead of "Get the F*** Out Of My Way".
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Redlight on April 23, 2011, 09:45:34 pm
I can understand the comments criticising the rider for being too fast, too aggressive, not sharing the space etc.  In an ideal environment it's quite easy for cyclists and pedestrians to share space. The problem is that this is far from the ideal environment for either.

The problem in Southend "Cycle Town", from what I have seen and know, is that these inadequate cycle lanes have been introduced in a way that makes it difficult for cycle users to continue to use the road without harassment. So, while they might be fine for someone who wants to potter along the seafront from Chalkwell to the Kursaal on a sunday morning, they are not suitable for someone who simply wants to get from west of Southend to east of Southend by bike along the shortest and flattest route.

The upshot is a collection of useless measures that make life more hazardous and inconvenient for cycle users.  So much for "Southend Cycle Town".

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on April 24, 2011, 09:17:09 am
I am sure I saw Anna Waite cycling along the path near Shoebury/ShoreHouse on Monday afternoon  :o :o :o

She was probably trying out the new mountain bike trail link-up shared use footpath/cycle track between  the top of Gunners Park and the Ness Road slipway at Shoebury Common beach. (Coincidentally built by W&H Roads, Waite and her husband's civil engineering company).
It's a packed earth and sand surface so far as I can tell. I know I had to thoroughly clean my drive train the day I used it due to the amount of dust. Looks like it will be a quagmire in the rain. In the dry I'd say tourers should be ok on this surface if they go easy, but if you're a roadie don't bother. Looks like more 'everyone rides mountain bikes don't they?' thinking.


    YouTube
        - Southend Cycle Town. New footpath/cycle track.
   (http://youtu.be/P41a4dXwQiA)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on April 24, 2011, 12:34:46 pm
I am sure I saw Anna Waite cycling along the path near Shoebury/ShoreHouse on Monday afternoon  :o :o :o

She was probably trying out the new mountain bike trail link-up shared use footpath/cycle track between  the top of Gunners Park and the Ness Road slipway at Shoebury Common beach. (Coincidentally built by W&H Roads, Waite and her husband's civil engineering company).
It's a packed earth and sand surface so far as I can tell. I know I had to thoroughly clean my drive train the day I used it due to the amount of dust. Looks like it will be a quagmire in the rain. In the dry I'd say tourers should be ok on this surface if they go easy, but if you're a roadie don't bother. Looks like more 'everyone rides mountain bikes don't they?' thinking.


    YouTube
        - Southend Cycle Town. New footpath/cycle track.
   (http://youtu.be/P41a4dXwQiA)

It does make a good route, but I agree the surface is suspect. But its not finnished yet ?  :-\
I have been through there on a road bike, well on 25's anyway and it was ok. Better on the tourer though  :smug:
The rest of the seafront upto the amusements is ok imo, but after that I turn off and cut through Lucy Road. I find the town centre safer to negotiate on a bike than the cycling infrastructure west of the pier  :(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on May 01, 2011, 09:33:42 am
The "No Cycling" signs have been removed form Cockup Corner.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: alexb on May 03, 2011, 12:17:13 pm
:facepalm: Two new posts, one shown here, about one third the way in from the green fence. I almost walked into it this morning.  :o
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_45o2t790K90/TZxvAkH5vdI/AAAAAAAAGNs/dGMHj0Ld4tc/s640/P4064801.JPG)
The perfect height for a line at handlebar level!

I wonder if a gate or fence across the path is to go in? To slow things down for the corner.   ::-)

Have a look at the 'how to beat up your council' thread and the design manuals therin. FOI for the risk assessment and the design standards to which it complies..

..d

Genius design feature of hidden non-reflective bollard on corner there!
So how do you spot that at night then?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Regulator on May 03, 2011, 04:38:13 pm
I am sure I saw Anna Waite cycling along the path near Shoebury/ShoreHouse on Monday afternoon  :o :o :o

And you resisted the temptation to push her under a passing motor vehicle?   :demon:




 ;)
Title: Southend Cycle town, yea fuck right off!!!!
Post by: Domestique on May 03, 2011, 05:06:09 pm
Fucking lethal

I am so fucking angry, I am speechless  >:( >:(

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5105/5683657133_0ae0382288_z.jpg)
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5108/5683656717_5dabdce090_z.jpg)
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5181/5683656377_11e8795384_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle town, yea fuck right off!!!!
Post by: clarion on May 03, 2011, 05:07:01 pm
Is Matthew Parris a local Council Officer?

>:(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle town, yea fuck right off!!!!
Post by: clarion on May 03, 2011, 05:09:53 pm
I see urgent reports of highway obstructions should be phoned through on 215000 immediately.

https://apps.southend.gov.uk/af3/an/default.aspx/RenderForm/?HideToolbar=1&F.Name=Fxs5x6ja-tD
Title: Re: Southend Cycle town, yea fuck right off!!!!
Post by: Wowbagger on May 03, 2011, 05:10:26 pm
The only possible purpose I can think of for that arrangement is to stop cyclists riding between the bollards. I'm struggling to think of a reason why they'd want to do that.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle town, yea fuck right off!!!!
Post by: andyoxon on May 03, 2011, 05:14:03 pm
Seems crazy - email your photos too.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on May 03, 2011, 05:25:15 pm
£7.6m City Beach cycle row (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/9002998.__7_6m_City_Beach_cycle_row/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle town, yea fuck right off!!!!
Post by: Domestique on May 03, 2011, 05:31:23 pm
Phoned through to the emergency switchboard. I told them it was lethal, someone is going to take a look.
Lets see what happens  :-\
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on May 03, 2011, 05:32:16 pm
Genius design feature of hidden non-reflective bollard on corner there!
So how do you spot that at night then?
You use a headlight and the new, fitted two days after pic, red reflectors on the posts. You can also use the skid marks, from the loose gravel surface, to know you're on a rather tight corner!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle town, yea fuck right off!!!!
Post by: BrianI on May 03, 2011, 05:47:21 pm
Seems very crazy indeed!  Seeing a rather faint "wet" on the ground, could it possibly be they had painted the bollards, then thought it better to put a bit of a barrier up to stop anyone getting wet paint on their clothes, then thought to padlock the barrier to the railing in case anyone nicks it?  Certainly looks like a lethal accident waiting to happen! at first I struggled to see the chain between the bollards and the barrier in the OPs picture!   :o
Title: Re: Southend Cycle town, yea fuck right off!!!!
Post by: Domestique on May 03, 2011, 05:55:09 pm
Just had a phone call from someone on a mobile who is going to see what he can do, after first trying to tell me it wasnt a cycle path. Aparently the middle post has been replaced due to damage blah blah blah. I just told him it was a cycle path and the obstruction is lethal.
I am tempted to go back in a little while to see if anything has been done.
I was glad I was aproaching this with the sun behind me, as in the third picture. Going the other way who knows  >:(
Title: Re: Southend Cycle town, yea fuck right off!!!!
Post by: Domestique on May 03, 2011, 06:37:33 pm
FAO the Mods
is it possible to move this post into the Southend Cycle town Pt 2 thread.
I think its important that its open for all to see
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on May 03, 2011, 06:51:36 pm
Fucking lethal

I am so fucking angry, I am speechless  >:( >:(

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5105/5683657133_0ae0382288_z.jpg)
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5108/5683656717_5dabdce090_z.jpg)
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5181/5683656377_11e8795384_z.jpg)

I phoned the council, had to phone the out of hours emergency number as the office was about to shut  :(

Just had a phone call from someone on a mobile who is going to see what he can do, after first trying to tell me it wasnt a cycle path. Aparently the middle post has been replaced due to damage blah blah blah. I just told him it was a cycle path and the obstruction is lethal.
I am tempted to go back in a little while to see if anything has been done.
I was glad I was aproaching this with the sun in front of me, as in the third picture. Going the other way who knows  
 
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on May 03, 2011, 08:05:56 pm
Update - Chains now removed.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/P1010805.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on May 03, 2011, 08:32:51 pm
Good work :thumbsup:

Now it's time for an FoI to find out which twit ordered them put on ;)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle town, yea fuck right off!!!!
Post by: Adrian on May 03, 2011, 09:59:12 pm
I'd be tempted to take bolt croppers to that, as a public service you understand.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle town, yea fuck right off!!!!
Post by: YahudaMoon on May 03, 2011, 10:04:44 pm
Ha ha ha ha ! at least the fence won't get weighed in from the gypo's

They may get a bike from a unconscious cyclist though
Title: Re: Southend Cycle town, yea fuck right off!!!!
Post by: Wowbagger on May 03, 2011, 10:08:44 pm
I'd be tempted to take bolt croppers to that, as a public service you understand.

If I hadn't been at a choir practice this evening I'd have gone down there with a hacksaw. That chain doesn't look very robust.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle town, yea fuck right off!!!!
Post by: YahudaMoon on May 03, 2011, 10:09:52 pm
Phoned through to the emergency switchboard. I told them it was lethal, someone is going to take a look.
Lets see what happens  :-\

Ha ha ha ha
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Charlotte on May 03, 2011, 10:27:58 pm
FAO the Mods
is it possible to move this post into the Southend Cycle town Pt 2 thread.
I think its important that its open for all to see

Done.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on May 04, 2011, 06:13:26 am
Tbf to SBC it was sorted out in two hours at most. Considering that was me phoning at office closing time thats not bad.
Otoh some poor sod was going to, at best, seriously hurt themselves. I hope someone is in for a severe bolocking this morning.
We have emailed relevent transport councilors, cycle southend team etc.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on May 04, 2011, 06:46:27 pm
I had a ride along East Beech this afternoon after work.
There are a few of these crowd control fences chained and padlocked to posts around the park. A thought that struck me I wonder if its something to do with a localish travellers camp that is about to be closed  :-\
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on May 04, 2011, 06:49:07 pm
I had a ride along East Beech this afternoon after work.
There are a few of these crowd control fences chained and padlocked to posts around the park. A thought that struck me I wonder if its something to do with a localish travellers camp that is about to be closed  :-\


I think so. It would explain the new height restriction barriers at the entrances to Eastbeach. Too low to get a caravan under.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on May 06, 2011, 05:19:53 pm
Anna Waite has been voted out!  ;D   Things looking up or not?  ???

edit: It seems that Paul van Looey is in and he owns a bike shop in town, don't know which, so could be things are looking up.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on May 06, 2011, 10:20:34 pm
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/P1010821.jpg)

Email and photograph sent to P&H Retail Distribution's 'how are we driving' email address.

"When cycling home this morning along Western Esplanade in Southend my journey was obstructed because one of your drivers (of vehicle registration GN06 AXX) had parked illegally in the cycle track outside Maxims Casino.

See photograph at this link: http://tinyurl.com/6jofvxr

To my knowledge they were parked illegally on three counts.

1, it is illegal to park in designated cycle tracks

2. It is illegal to park on double yellow lines

3. It is illegal to cross an unbroken white line.

In addition to this they placed the safety of cyclists using the track at risk. There was no room to pass in the cycle track, it is illegal to cycle on the pavement. That left the option of leaving the cycle track and entering the road against the direction of traffic (the cycle track is two-way, the adjacent road is not).

There was no need for such dangerous and lazy parking. Your driver could have quite safely parked in the designated parking bays opposite Maxims Casino.
"
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on May 07, 2011, 09:26:42 am
Anna Waite has been voted out!  ;D   Things looking up or not?  ???
Ding! Dong! The witch is dead!!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Voted into 3rd place!   ;D  Stormed out before the count was completed!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


...It seems that Paul van Looey is in and he owns a bike shop in town, don't know which, so could be things are looking up.

I think he owns a Fish & Chip shop.   :-\
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on May 07, 2011, 09:52:42 am
He has owned a number of fish & chip shops. It appears that he fell foul of Anna Waite when she objected to some plans he had to enlarge / modernise one of the shops and he took it sufficiently personally to stand against her as an independent.

Without knowing anything about van Looey's plans, I know that Anna Waite has a track record of trying to stop worthwhile planning applications out of spite. When Temple Sutton School was in the process of opening a much-needed Health Centre in St. Luke's (part of the "Extended School" programme, in which TS was a pioneer), she got in the way and objected to the plans, which were part of a central government initiative. Frank Gulley went to see Holdcroft and told him to "get that woman off my back else I'll go to town on you." Holdcroft very wisely got that woman off Frank's back.

I don't know how well this was publicised, but "Local Councillor stops Health Centre opening" isn't something that would go down too well with most voters.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on May 07, 2011, 11:47:02 am
Well she had a good run in the council.
How much was it p.a. she was on??? You dont have to stay long to earn enough when its that sort of money. I dont suppose she is that bothered, sadly.
As for a legacy, well I now never cycle west of city beach, unless it is very out of season. What was once ok to cycle is now not.
This woman seems to have more lives than a cat, I wouldnt bet against her re-emerging in the future.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on May 07, 2011, 12:33:26 pm
It will be interesting to see how many council contracts are given to W&H Roads now she's no longer a councillor.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on May 07, 2011, 03:36:24 pm
Anna Waite has been voted out!  ;D   Things looking up or not?  ???

edit: It seems that Paul van Looey is in and he owns a bike shop in town, don't know which, so could be things are looking up.

Not sure  :-\
I heard one of the Arch's cafe's is owned by the same person who runs JD Cycles in Benfleet.


Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on May 11, 2011, 12:27:21 pm
Maybe all those videos of cud chewers ignoring the cycle track have stung the council into action on Western Esplanade. According to the guys doing the work they're resurfacing the track along its entire length.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/P1010841.jpg)

It isn't the smoothest surface, and I would not want to fall on it, but on the plus side it might discourage roller-bladers and skateboarders.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/P1010842.jpg)


Time will tell if it makes a difference.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on May 11, 2011, 02:20:15 pm
So instead of skidding into peds we'll be stoppie into peds!  ;D

On the face of it it can't make it worse and it'll show up the casino stains better!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on May 11, 2011, 02:36:51 pm
and it'll show up the casino stains better!

I was speaking to the refuse collectors this morning outside Maxims. For a while they parked in the parking bays and took the bins across the road. Then one of their operaters was nearly run down, and their boss said, 'I'm not having that, it's a health and safety issue'. So they now park in the cycle track again. To be honest I can't blame them. It is just another example of failure to plan properly at the design stage.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Speshact on May 11, 2011, 04:56:43 pm
and it'll show up the casino stains better!

I was speaking to the refuse collectors this morning outside Maxims. For a while they parked in the parking bays and took the bins across the road. Then one of their operaters was nearly run down, and their boss said, 'I'm not having that, it's a health and safety issue'. So they now park in the cycle track again. To be honest I can't blame them. It is just another example of failure to plan properly at the design stage.

I suppose parking in the road is out of the question then?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on May 12, 2011, 04:50:25 pm
I suppose parking in the road is out of the question then?
This is how that section looks outside the casino, pre green paint. SBC don't want to lose revenue from the parking spaces and the casino don't want to give up their membership spaces.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_45o2t790K90/TGUpflTsDwI/AAAAAAAAF1o/3i4dIg-mpQ8/s640/p8132671.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: teethgrinder on May 12, 2011, 06:52:14 pm
I see double yellow lines, which indicates, "No Parking," a mandatory cycle lane, as indicated by the solid white line and some parking spaces.


Don't bin men know how to cross the road? How was this bin man nearly run down?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on May 20, 2011, 09:03:11 pm
I am sure I saw Anna Waite cycling along the path near Shoebury/ShoreHouse on Monday afternoon  :o :o :o

She was probably trying out the new mountain bike trail link-up shared use footpath/cycle track between  the top of Gunners Park and the Ness Road slipway at Shoebury Common beach. (Coincidentally built by W&H Roads, Waite and her husband's civil engineering company).
It's a packed earth and sand surface so far as I can tell. I know I had to thoroughly clean my drive train the day I used it due to the amount of dust. Looks like it will be a quagmire in the rain. In the dry I'd say tourers should be ok on this surface if they go easy, but if you're a roadie don't bother. Looks like more 'everyone rides mountain bikes don't they?' thinking.


    YouTube
        - Southend Cycle Town. New footpath/cycle track.
   (http://youtu.be/P41a4dXwQiA)

In the past few weeks I have seen a lot of people walking bikes with flat tyres in the area around Uncle Tom's Cabin. Today I joined them. It seems the above new shared path is surfaced with what looks like very coarse sharp sand. One of my inners was punctured in three places by razor sharp fragments of flint.

I'll not be using the new path in future.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on May 20, 2011, 09:25:47 pm
Uncle Toms or did you mean the Three Shells ???

I had a flat on the newly laid path at Gunners park a few weeks ago, but havent been west of city beech for a while now.

Sorry just saw what you meant  :-[
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on May 20, 2011, 09:28:58 pm
Uncle Toms or did you mean the Three Shells ???

I had a flat on the newly laid path at Gunners park a few weeks ago, but havent been west of city beech for a while now.

Uncle Toms. I'm referring to the Gunners Park path. In the past week I've seen probably ten people with punctures in that area, and all had dusty tyres like they'd just used that path.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on May 20, 2011, 10:06:41 pm
Yep, its Marathon Plus territory on that bit of path.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on May 20, 2011, 10:24:38 pm
I was on Schwalbe City Jet tyres, which are pretty tough. This is the first time they've been punctured.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on May 20, 2011, 11:15:56 pm
Just seen this: Tell us your views on new green walkway in Southend and Rochford (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/9037772.Tell_us_your_views_on_new_green_walkway_in_Southend_and_Rochford/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on June 02, 2011, 05:20:08 pm
Front page of today's Echo:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/20mph.jpg)


Result! :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on June 02, 2011, 05:23:16 pm
Whoop Whoop  ;D  8)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on June 02, 2011, 05:37:35 pm
We need an exploding Clarksonhead smiley. :D

The editorial comment:

"If Jeremy Clarkson ever contemplated a day-trip to Southend, he has probably just cancelled it.
At the other end of the spectrum are environmentalists, who won't be satisfied until Southend seafront is wholly pedestrianised. For the great majority, however, the seafront's new 20mph speed limit will probably be seen as sanity on wheels.
It will make the esplanade a safer and more pleasant place, while retaining its role as a key cross-town route for residential traffic.
The change marks a further shift in in the process of handing the seafront back to pedestrians and cyclists. Southend's on-your-bike campaign should encourage more people to switch from four wheels to two, not least because cycling may now be the quickest form of transport in this part of town.
All this might prove futile, however, without pressure on traffic* to comply with the limit. The introduction of average speed cameras would ensure compliance. Average speed cameras would also spell the end for boy racers in the town. The game of racing between speed cameras has become something of a ritual, but is one Southend tradition that won't be mourned.
None of this will place any financial burden on taxpayers, since Keymed is footing the bill. Once again the town owes this philanthropic company a debt of thanks, even though Keymed never seems to seek even that modest token.
"


Looks like all that pro-cycling anti-speed argument on the Echo's website sunk home somewhere. :D


*I think the writer is unaware that cyclists are also 'traffic' and that 'motr vehicle traffic' would have been more accurate, but it's a small error and I'm not complaining.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on June 03, 2011, 09:02:31 am
Now online: 20mph zone and average speed cameras planned for Southend seafront (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/9063038.20mph_limit_and_average_speed_cameras_for_Southend_seafront/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on June 03, 2011, 09:21:05 am
WTF is wrong with some people.
The comments section 'its unfair' 'I dont break the law' 'blah blah blah' 'moan moan moan'
Should have put the speed limit down to 10mph
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on June 03, 2011, 09:38:57 am
WTF is wrong with some people.
The comments section 'its unfair' 'I dont break the law' 'blah blah blah' 'moan moan moan'
Should have put the speed limit down to 10mph

This one caught my eye: "With the current spate of street crimes being reported here, maybe Keymed would have been better to fund some form of anti-crime measure."

Because speeding apparently isn't a crime.  ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 03, 2011, 02:04:16 pm
I've just had a ride on the Great Grey Patio, or the Patio from Hell, and I don't see what all the fuss is about. There were half a dozen Hi-Viz wearing people directing peds and traffic. I joined from Vic. Ave. rode all over the Patio, between peds and buses and stone balls.
Victoria Gateway shared space creates chaos (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/9059894.Victoria_Gateway_shared_space_creates_chaos/?ref=mc)

If you head west to London Road there are no "No Cycling" signs in view so you could, if you wanted, ride all the way to Baxter/Boston Avenues.

edit: At least they haven't put the Fugly Millennium Clock from the High St. on it!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on June 04, 2011, 07:47:56 am
"Since when has speeding been a Crime???
Its a driving offence..Get your facts right!!"
 ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 07, 2011, 12:27:39 am
I've not been round much recently, work's been so busy that fortunately I've not had to cycle into the shithole Southend's been turned into and as a result I've not been getting my daily stress about how badly the Council have treated cyclists.

I popped into the office a few weeks ago, just after the green paint started going down on the seafront, my initial reaction was that as they were painting over the white cycle logos they'd given up on the idea of a cycle path and were introducing an artificial grass verge.



I did however cycle through both the Prittle Brook Greenway, as well as Victoria Circus roundabout (sorry, "shared space"), as well as getting shouted at by a taxi driver along the seafront for riding in the road and not on the new City Beach Pavement.


At Victoria Circus I'm struggling to find the "shared space" (which is of course a fashionable catchphrase at present).  I can find a main road t-junction, a bus lane, and a huge amount of pedestrian pavement.  All the roads seem to be traffic light controlled, and from the cycle lanes etc cyclists also appear to have their own dedicated space.  What I can't find, as I have found elsewhere in the world as I research cycle schemes and road layouts, is any area where pedestrians and traffic share the same space in order to make a pleasant and safe environment.  e.g. Google Maps (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Sarlat-la-Can%C3%A9da,+France&aq=0&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=12.970501,39.506836&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Sarlat-la-Can%C3%A9da,+Dordogne,+Aquitaine,+France&ll=44.888708,1.216425&spn=0.003793,0.009645&z=17&layer=c&cbll=44.888127,1.216159&panoid=5MG5HOTOL8fyU5qGbzd76Q&cbp=12,7.91,,0,9.91)



I am appalled at how bad the greenway is.  is it just me that feels this way?   I complained back at the end of last year when they started this, as you get wheelspin when you turn the pedals, huge slides when you dab the back brake, and the front washes out if you dab that brake or turn sharply.  I dropped the bike at the sharp bend by the driving school when at low speed I encountered an elderly pedestrian.  I used this as an example in a recent communication with the Council - only to get what I took as a sarcastic "sorry to hear that you've fallen from your bicycle again" reply.  I'm more than happy riding on any surface from smooth tarmac, through cycle paths, bridleways, fully off-road to ice and snow; I'm not impressed though by this loose gravel over a hard surface as it's the loosest I've encountered for a long time.  As soon as you lose traction you're riding on the equivalent of ball bearings.  If I, as an experienced cyclist knowing I'm on a poor surface can drop the bike, how will novice cyclists cope?   I note that the path is covered in deep skid marks where people are churning the gravel over.

The Council imply that this path is based on the Cycle Town of Woking where a fantastic path has been built alongside the canal.  I've visited that site (with the CTC and local campaigners) only to find that the canal path IS fantastic as there is NO loose gravel.  Apparently there was some initially but the council listened to stakeholders and swept it up.  I've gone back to Southend Council with this, as well as (twice) inviting Rob Tinlin and the two relevant Councillors on site to discuss; I've received the usual responce that I get as a stakeholder - no reply at all.



Due to work commitments I couldn't make the last Council run cycle group meeting.  The agenda implied it was going to be a back slapping congratulatory affair at the end of the three year project.  I did get a copy of the minutes which say things such as "... and Prittle Brook schemes have been welcomed and provide good quality riding areas" and "Members of the Forum thanked the Council staff for all their work on Cycle Southend to date and congratulated them on their achievements".  That doesn't read in the same way as usual forum meetings, but when I look at the list of attendees I see several of the usual members didn't attend, but Council staff who don't usually attend were there.



From comments made in the press I'm getting the impression that after three years as a cycle town the Council still don't understand what a cyclist is.  I'm getting the impression that they want to create areas that we can transport our bikes to and then ride in circles.  e.g. Cyclists and pedestrians to share City Beach space (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8904720.Cyclists_and_pedestrians_to_share_City_Beach_space/)
"CYCLISTS will share the same space as pedestrians along Southend seafront when the £7.6million City Beach scheme is complete"
"Their vision of City Beach is of a recreational area where they want to discourage fast cycling near pedestrians"
"Graham Pearl, of Southend Wheelers and a Bike-It officer for Sustrans, welcomed the idea, adding: 'Anything that allows us to cycle in more places is beneficial.' "  (I understand from the meetings I have attended that Graham is a member of the Cycle Town project team, and his comment here confuses me as I've cycled along the Golden quarter-of-a-mile for the last ten years so I don't understand how we are being allowed to cycle in more places...)


In the last few weeks I've been in several different areas of the country.  I am really pleased to see how so many people are now cycling, and how cycling numbers are rocketing up.  I'm guessing that a lot of this is down to fuel prices, as well as more prominence of cycling in the media etc.  Most of the areas I've been in do not have cycle facilities, the cyclists are just getting on with cycling (mostly on-road, but also sometimes on the pavement in town).  When I do cycle through Southend I don't see as much of an increase in cyclists as I would expect from their status as a cycling town.



So, the question I ask the public is...   Do I accept that the Council is right in creating the seafront path that has led to so many conflicts, that the Council is right in retaining such a poor surface on the Prittle Brook Greenway and not sweeping the loose gravel up, and that I should admit defeat and let them get on with what they feel is benefitting cyclists while I just walk away and go cycling elsewhere.


I only got involved in the cycle campaigning as I wanted to improve conditions for cyclists.  Southend Council have appeared to do their own thing for the last ten years that I've been involved, and other than a few items I feel I have achieved little.  Is it time for me to call it a day and go back to charity working and other such activities where I do get to help others.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on June 07, 2011, 05:33:55 am
Nutty, You should email that, as it is, to all Southend's councillors, and I mean 'all', and cc it to the CTC, Sustrans, the local rag, and any nationals you can think of (the Indy comes to mind as they ran a 'Save Our Cyclists' campaign recently). If you need evidence of how bad the seafront is there is plenty of video available of near misses etc. on the cycle track and City Beach.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on June 07, 2011, 10:08:30 am
The Prittlewell Brook path is for dogs and their walkers isnt it?
I dont think I have ever seen anyone cycling on it  ???
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 07, 2011, 12:18:19 pm
The Prittlewell Brook path is for dogs and their walkers isnt it?
I dont think I have ever seen anyone cycling on it  ???
I see cyclists riding there every day and just now I reported, to the rozzers, a couple of yoofs on a mini moto on the Greenway.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 07, 2011, 01:35:10 pm
Most times I've ridden along there sideways I've also seen other cyclists.



My question for the jury is, should I stop representing the cyclists I've spoken to over the years and agree with the Council that the Prittle Brook Greenway etc is absolutely wonderful as some people are wobbling along there on their Halfords/Tesco specials - or should I continue to try to get the Council to start to develop a cycle town and put in faclities that are suitable for cycling on?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 07, 2011, 01:36:30 pm
del - I don't understand how a yoof on a minimoto could be on the path.  I'm sure from the project meetings I attended many years ago the Council said that that wouldn't be an issue.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Regulator on June 07, 2011, 01:40:43 pm
I've not been round much recently, work's been so busy that fortunately I've not had to cycle into the shithole Southend's been turned into and as a result I've not been getting my daily stress about how badly the Council have treated cyclists.


I wondered where you had been, my sweet...  :-*

Welcome back!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 07, 2011, 01:42:16 pm
del - I don't understand how a yoof on a minimoto could be on the path.  I'm sure from the project meetings I attended many years ago the Council said that that wouldn't be an issue.
This is the same council who said that no motor traffic would impinge on the Western Esp. cycle path because a white line would be there to stop them?  ::-)

Edit: Ditto to what Regulator has said, welcome back!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on June 07, 2011, 03:19:10 pm
or should I continue to try to get the Council to start to develop a cycle town and put in faclities that are suitable for cycling on?

This gets my vote.  :thumbsup: (and it might even be a little easier now Chainsaw is gone)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on June 07, 2011, 03:33:25 pm
or should I continue to try to get the Council to start to develop a cycle town and put in faclities that are suitable for cycling on?

This gets my vote.  :thumbsup:

Aye Nutty, the second option gets my vote also. Not that I have owt to do with Sarfend you know but who knows, one day I may loose all reason and take to two wheels on your manor. If that ever happens, knowing you are doing your stuff is good news :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on June 11, 2011, 05:22:57 pm
Wonder how they'll edit out the parking illegally in the cycle lane…  ;)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/stenders.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on June 11, 2011, 05:51:38 pm
^ Maybe they swapped producers, Top Gear for EastEnders^

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on June 11, 2011, 06:17:18 pm
The Prittlewell Brook path is for dogs and their walkers isnt it?
I dont think I have ever seen anyone cycling on it  ???
I see cyclists riding there every day and just now I reported, to the rozzers, a couple of yoofs on a mini moto on the Greenway.

Wonder if this is related? Mini Moto seized by police (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/9078266.Mini_Moto_seized_by_police/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 12, 2011, 08:00:30 am
Wonder how they'll edit out the parking illegally in the cycle lane…  ;)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/stenders.jpg)
Where's Casey Neistat when you need him?  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Riggers on June 13, 2011, 08:42:45 am
You mean Casey Ryback surely!!?

Admiral Bates: Now, since your ass is on the line, sailor, I authorize you right now, to do whatever you can to aid in the arrival of the SEAL Team. Because if I goddamn can't control you, I might as well support you. Correct?

Casey Ryback: That's affirmative, Sir!

Taken from the film Under Southend On Siege 2
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on June 20, 2011, 07:17:09 pm
These signs have appeared over the weekend. Oddly there are no corresponding signs for road traffic.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/giveway.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Adrian on June 20, 2011, 07:20:43 pm
These signs have appeared over the weekend. Oddly there are no corresponding signs for road traffic.


To be fair, there doesn't need to be because motorists always stop for pedestrians on zebra crossings.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Andrij on June 20, 2011, 07:23:37 pm
These signs have appeared over the weekend. Oddly there are no corresponding signs for road traffic.


To be fair, there doesn't need to be because motorists always stop for pedestrians on zebra crossings.

ROTFLMAO!
 
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: SlowCoach on June 20, 2011, 09:09:27 pm
Umm - why doesn't the pedestrian crossing just continue across the cycle lanes as well? Then there would be no need for the signs or the requirement to plant a belisha beacon in the middle of the cycle lane.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on June 20, 2011, 09:12:12 pm
Indeed. I'm sure that that "pedestrian crossing" has no legal force on the cycle lane because it's not properly marked.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: rogerzilla on June 20, 2011, 09:20:01 pm
I think the sign is probably there because (a) the zebra crossing doesn't extend across the cycle lane and (b) there is no provision in the psyclepath design manual for a zebra crossing - at least, I've never seen one.

So it's probably bizarre design rules rather than the vindictive action of a sinister cabal of shape-shifting Illuminati.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: teethgrinder on June 20, 2011, 09:21:57 pm
No, but there are "Give Way" markings on the cyclepath and also a "Give Way" sign.
The sign reads, "Pedestrians Crossing," which to me is a warning that pedestrians may be crossing, not a statement that it is an actual pedstrian crossing. Just like you get when a Sustrans route crosses a road and you see a, "Cyclists Crossing," sign, usualy accompanied by the warning triangle with the bike in it.
What puzzles me is whether you cycle on (well, across really, but you have to ride on it to cross it, unless you jump) a pavement when you cross the pedestrian crossing or not? It certainly looks that way to me.
If so, then you'd have to join the road to get past the pavement, then re-join the cyclepath, or just stay on the road.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on June 20, 2011, 09:24:30 pm
The signs on the posts look a bit 'amateurish' to say the least.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/sign1.jpg)

and from the back:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/sign2.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on June 20, 2011, 09:28:06 pm
They're not legally enforcable, because they don't conform.  And I'm prepared to bet the reason they aren't using proper signage is because they haven't gone through the proper legal process to create the cycle lane in the first place.

ETA: I would give way to pedestrians anyway.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on June 20, 2011, 09:28:07 pm
Andy, just a thought, are you sure its nothing to do with the London-Southend bike ride this weekend :-\

Cancel that  :-[
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on June 20, 2011, 09:33:55 pm
Andy, just a thought, are you sure its nothing to do with the London-Southend bike ride this weekend :-\

Cancel that  :-[


I would have said 'possibly' if these signs had gone up at all the pedestrian crossings along there. They haven't, they've only appeared opposite Toulouse. I'm inclined to think this may have been done privately, and the council may even be unaware of it.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on June 20, 2011, 09:59:42 pm
Andy, just a thought, are you sure its nothing to do with the London-Southend bike ride this weekend :-\

Cancel that  :-[


I would have said 'possibly' if these signs had gone up at all the pedestrian crossings along there. They haven't, they've only appeared opposite Toulouse. I'm inclined to think this may have been done privately, and the council may even be unaware of it.

I am inclined to agree with that.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on June 20, 2011, 10:01:25 pm
If they're private, then there would be no crime in removing illegal signs littering the street ;)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 21, 2011, 12:33:52 pm
Sometime last Friday afternoon/Saturday morning a bike hoop has been clamped onto a lamp post adjacent to the row of shops. It seems my suggestion of adding cycle parking has found some funding.
Just here Clicky google map (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=51.549834,0.695116&spn=0.000969,0.00177&sll=51.550028,0.693555&sspn=0.001938,0.003541&z=19). Do we know of anymore?


Edit: It's the same as this one but in stainless steel and fitted onto a galvanised light column.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_piG2fv-C4Qg/TG1athtEjBI/AAAAAAAAC68/3KAuJIZabkg/s1600/Cycle+Hoop.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on June 21, 2011, 12:45:05 pm
There's one been added outside the Costcutter in Shoebury High Street. It's been there for almost a year now I think. Hmm… I haven't seen any like that though. Looks a bit high off the ground. Not much use for locking up a small wheeler.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on June 21, 2011, 10:00:51 pm
Sometime last Friday afternoon/Saturday morning a bike hoop has been clamped onto a lamp post adjacent to the row of shops. It seems my suggestion of adding cycle parking has found some funding.
Just here Clicky google map (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=51.549834,0.695116&spn=0.000969,0.00177&sll=51.550028,0.693555&sspn=0.001938,0.003541&z=19). Do we know of anymore?


Edit: It's the same as this one but in stainless steel and fitted onto a galvanised light column.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_piG2fv-C4Qg/TG1athtEjBI/AAAAAAAAC68/3KAuJIZabkg/s1600/Cycle+Hoop.jpg)

These were announced by Tim Totten at the cycle forum (one before last I think). There are loads going up all over the town in front of shops and other places where people may want to take their bikes. The loops are being used where there is no room for a tradditional sheffield stand.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Gandalf on June 22, 2011, 06:47:29 am
There's one been added outside the Costcutter in Shoebury High Street. It's been there for almost a year now I think. Hmm… I haven't seen any like that though. Looks a bit high off the ground. Not much use for locking up a small wheeler.

I'm struggling to see how you would lock any bike up properly with one of those.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 22, 2011, 06:56:16 am
I'm struggling to see how you would lock any bike up properly with one of those.
Here's a similar hoop with bike attached.
  PRODUCTS | Cyclehoop (http://www.cyclehoop.com/products/#lamppost)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Gandalf on June 22, 2011, 09:26:12 am
I'm struggling to see how you would lock any bike up properly with one of those.
Here's a similar hoop with bike attached.
  PRODUCTS | Cyclehoop (http://www.cyclehoop.com/products/#lamppost)

Thanks Del, it looked a bit too high up at first glance.  Certainly an improvement on wheelbenders.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 22, 2011, 10:14:41 am
Here's a shot of the actual hoop. As you can see it's a bit tougher to secure a Brompton but it still works.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-XfS8eVXWR3A/TgGxx6GRjgI/AAAAAAAAGSw/nyeREliNUF8/s640/p6225155.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on June 22, 2011, 10:21:10 am
If you folded it up, couldn't you use a D-lock to hang it from the hoop?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 22, 2011, 10:35:30 am
If you folded it up, couldn't you use a D-lock to hang it from the hoop?
It'll lock either way, just not as easy as a diamond frame. A bent would probably need a cable lock.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Riggers on June 22, 2011, 10:59:05 am
… and is that a homemade 'R.I.P' by your front wheel?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on June 22, 2011, 11:01:26 am
… and is that a homemade 'R.I.P' by your front wheel?
It's the last resting place of a bike thief caught near to this spot.


Er... Apparently!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on June 22, 2011, 03:57:12 pm
Sometime last Friday afternoon/Saturday morning a bike hoop has been clamped onto a lamp post adjacent to the row of shops. It seems my suggestion of adding cycle parking has found some funding.
Just here Clicky google map (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=51.549834,0.695116&spn=0.000969,0.00177&sll=51.550028,0.693555&sspn=0.001938,0.003541&z=19). Do we know of anymore?


Edit: It's the same as this one but in stainless steel and fitted onto a galvanised light column.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_piG2fv-C4Qg/TG1athtEjBI/AAAAAAAAC68/3KAuJIZabkg/s1600/Cycle+Hoop.jpg)

Noticed a few of these along Leigh Broadway today. Good idea  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Adrian on June 22, 2011, 08:06:45 pm
If you folded it up, couldn't you use a D-lock to hang it from the hoop?

or take it with you?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on July 06, 2011, 10:28:12 pm
 ::-)

Dad angry after cyclist hit girl, 5, on pavement (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/9124712.Dad_angry_after_cyclist_hit_girl__5__on_pavement/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: clarion on July 07, 2011, 09:17:29 am
I can see his point.  It is stupid and dangerous.  My kids rode on the pavement until I felt they were competent to use the road, but they were younger than 14 at that point.

The comments are par for any paper, really.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on July 25, 2011, 09:35:10 am
There was a protest on the seafront at the weekend:

http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/9157905.Protest_over__shared_space__on_Southend_seafront/

I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand I see their point, on the other putting in crossings is pandering to drivers. If crossings are put in then drivers will again consider the area 'theirs' and anything else in the road as a trespasser on 'their' space. Left to me I would gate each end of the 'City Beach' - similar to the gates we have on village boundaries - and put up signs saying 'Pedestrianised area, drive slowly' or similar. I would endeavour to make the 'City Beach' stand out as not a road, rather than cave in to the traffic and put in crossings.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: hellymedic on July 25, 2011, 02:03:08 pm
'Shared space' cannot and will not work if motor vehicle flow exceeds about 2 per minute. I've not been to Southend but doubt that this sea front road is ever that quiet during the day.
Exhibition Road in That London will be next to demonstrate EPIC FAIL in this regard.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: ScumOfTheRoad on July 25, 2011, 02:09:14 pm
Helly, that's an interestic statistic. Could you amplify a bit on that  - not having a pop, genuinely interested in the debate.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: hellymedic on July 25, 2011, 02:16:34 pm
I can't remember the actual figures; I vaguely recall them from my partner VoleO'Speed who has blogged about the issue. I don't know his source either, I'm afraid.

[Edit] This blog http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2011/07/12/the-delusion-of-shared-space-as-an-urban-transport-panacea/ (http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2011/07/12/the-delusion-of-shared-space-as-an-urban-transport-panacea/)

refers to TRRL data on http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/sustainable/sharedspace/stage1/pdf/stage1.pdf (http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/sustainable/sharedspace/stage1/pdf/stage1.pdf) (Warning! 48 page pdf!)

Bottom line: if there are more than a very few cars, pedestrians will cower at the sides of the streets.
Quelle surprise!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Regulator on July 25, 2011, 04:01:21 pm
'Shared space' cannot and will not work if motor vehicle flow exceeds about 2 per minute. I've not been to Southend but doubt that this sea front road is ever that quiet during the day.
Exhibition Road in That London will be next to demonstrate EPIC FAIL in this regard.

I would have to disagree with you on that Helly.

I've seen shared space work very well in Holland and Germany with quite heavy traffic flows.  I think the principle aspect of getting it to work is educating drivers - that's where it will fall down in the UK.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on July 25, 2011, 04:26:02 pm
'Shared space' cannot and will not work if motor vehicle flow exceeds about 2 per minute. I've not been to Southend but doubt that this sea front road is ever that quiet during the day.
Exhibition Road in That London will be next to demonstrate EPIC FAIL in this regard.

I would have to disagree with you on that Helly.

I've seen shared space work very well in Holland and Germany with quite heavy traffic flows.  I think the principle aspect of getting it to work is educating drivers - that's where it will fall down in the UK.

It does work really well, from what I have seen in Holland and Germany. Not sure if I am right, but imo the 'Assumed Liability' law must have a big influence on motorists attitude.
I dont know how attitudes are going to change in the UK unless the law changes as well  :-\ From what I see many motorists are quite prepared to take a chance when it comes to peds/cyclists.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Regulator on July 25, 2011, 04:29:05 pm
'Shared space' cannot and will not work if motor vehicle flow exceeds about 2 per minute. I've not been to Southend but doubt that this sea front road is ever that quiet during the day.
Exhibition Road in That London will be next to demonstrate EPIC FAIL in this regard.

I would have to disagree with you on that Helly.

I've seen shared space work very well in Holland and Germany with quite heavy traffic flows.  I think the principle aspect of getting it to work is educating drivers - that's where it will fall down in the UK.

It does work really well, from what I have seen in Holland and Germany. Not sure if I am right, but imo the 'Assumed Liability' law must have a big influence on motorists attitude.
I dont know how attitudes are going to change in the UK unless the law changes as well  :-\ From what I see many motorists are quite prepared to take a chance when it comes to peds/cyclists.

Oh yes - I'd agree with the assumed liability bit as well.  But even with that, it's about educating drivers.  Drivers in Europe don;t seem to have the same 'entitlement' mentatlity that drivers here do...
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on July 25, 2011, 04:46:32 pm
Oh yes - I'd agree with the assumed liability bit as well.  But even with that, it's about educating drivers.  Drivers in Europe don;t seem to have the same 'entitlement' mentatlity that drivers here do...

Assumed liability is one simple method for providing lessons and real financial pain to the motons, it's part of driver education.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on August 15, 2011, 12:12:10 pm
We have new signs. Not sure how official they are. They looked a bit 'Blue Peter' to me.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/IMG_0986.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/IMG_0989.jpg)

Note in the second picture the sign is in completely the wrong place and will only be seen by drivers heading up towards Southchurch. Which says to me this is a well-meant amateur effort rather than anything to do with SBC.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on August 15, 2011, 01:18:23 pm
Those signs do look rather homemade. I don't know if this sign
(http://www.wspolnota.net.pl/files/thumbs/t_znak_d_40svg_293.png)
has any official use in the UK.

I don't know Southend but I think shared space can work with heavy traffic. Often it simply has to, where there are no pavements in towns. Presumed liability (or whatever the phrase is) helps here, it's often the only reason traffic takes any notice of pedestrian crossings in Poland!* But even that won't make the traffic stop for you until you're on the crossing itself - UK drivers are generally some of the best worldwide for this anyway - so it also takes a bit of nerves/balls/courage, delete as preferred. Just step out and they will stop because they have to! Obviously this only works at town speeds, but that shouldn't be a problem on this beach road.

However, if you're having to cross the road in the first place, then it's not truly shared space.

*I don't think Poland has a general liability law in the way that Germany does, but there is a specific law applying to pedestrian crossings.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on August 15, 2011, 05:24:19 pm
Went back for another look this afternoon. Definitely home-made.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Dg/IMG_1001.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on August 15, 2011, 11:26:48 pm
So own up - Nutty, Wow, FB or you?  :)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on August 16, 2011, 09:28:04 am
So own up - Nutty, Wow, FB or you?  :)

Not me. But following a recent incident there has been a lot of discussion regarding the issue of signs here. It could have been anyone.

http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/9178252.Young_boy_hit_by_CCTV_car_on_Southend_seafront/?ref=mc

http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/9191167.Council_defends_shared_space_after_child_hurt_on_Southend_seafront/
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on August 18, 2011, 06:29:21 am
No shared space anywhere in SoS.
http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/9198041.Shared_spaces_still_legally_the_realm_of_cars__council_admits/
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on August 18, 2011, 07:20:47 am
No shared space anywhere in SoS.
http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/9198041.Shared_spaces_still_legally_the_realm_of_cars__council_admits/

I read that yesterday. It's a headline I have to disagree with:

realm  (rlm)
n.
1. A community or territory over which a sovereign rules; a kingdom.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: FatBloke on September 28, 2011, 07:19:16 am
On my way home from work at about 17:30 yesterday evening there was a cyclist down just east of the casino on the cycle path. Didn't look good. Ambulance in attendance etc. etc. Anyone know what happened. It didn't look like a car was involved.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on September 28, 2011, 09:05:56 am
I didn't see it, but I'm not surprised something happened there. That area is ignored by parking enforcement so the cycle path is used as a drop-off/pick-up bay for the casino.


Ps. Those Shared Space signs mentioned earlier have been removed.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on September 28, 2011, 01:57:52 pm
On my way home from work at about 17:30 yesterday evening there was a cyclist down just east of the casino on the cycle path. Didn't look good. Ambulance in attendance etc. etc. Anyone know what happened. It didn't look like a car was involved.

Bugger


Bet the council will deny it/claim it's the cyclists fault for riding too fast on a leisure path (as they told me re the last one).




Did anybody else see in the Echo that another pedestrian has been knocked over on City Beach by a car?  Shared space my arse.   I drove through there last night (17:00, so just before Fatbloke's attendance :( )in the rush hour having left the office.    Pedestrians crowded by the kerbside waiting to cross and all drivers (bar me) just driving by.

I was also disgusted to count just 6 cyclists on the seafront path in the rush hour.  5 years ago when I cycled that every day I'd have expected to see 10 to 15 per day at that time.    Cycle Town?  I don't think so!  Where have the cyclists gone?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Regulator on September 28, 2011, 02:23:36 pm
...   I drove through there last night (17:00, so just before Fatbloke's attendance ...


I was also disgusted to count just 6 cyclists on the seafront path in the rush hour.  5 years ago when I cycled that every day I'd have expected to see 10 to 15 per day at that time.    Cycle Town?  I don't think so!  Where have the cyclists gone?

They'd heard you were driving and knew of your reputation with things mechanical?    ;) :P
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on October 14, 2011, 12:53:02 pm
http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/9305634.Shared_space_will_get_new_road_signs/
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Pete Owens on October 17, 2011, 12:50:26 am
The point of shared space is to remove the need for signs. The whole environment should give the message to the driver that there is no obvious priority of passage for them so they have to pay attention to their surroundings. Or rather the absence of the great simplification of the environment that would otherwise be offered by conventional highway design (including warning signs) makes high speeds impossible.

Of course this goes against "common sense". We have had decades of engineering measures (guard railings, white painted lane markings, smooth curves, visibility splays, official crossing points and so on). The effect of these has always to facilitate high speed traffic by giving drivers a great deal of certainty of their way ahead, and pass the entire responsibility for safety onto everybody else to keep out of their path. All this has been sold to us on the basis of "road safety", but the effect is always to marginalise non-motorised traffic for the convenience of drivers.

If you look at some of the neanderthal attitudes from Lib Dem Councilors quoted in the report:
"Someone could drive along the rest of the seafront and enter the area without knowing. What would happen then if they hit somebody?"
"Would they have a defence because of the lack of warning and the fact it is still legally a road?
You can see that their real concern the poor motorists (Jeremy Clarkson is also a prominent opponent of shared space). The attitude is that it is perfectly OK to hit people on normal roads.

Now looking at some of the photos with the signs it doesn't look at all like shared space - just like a conventional road with all the traditional highway engineering paraphanalia - kerbs, traffic lights, cattle pens and so on to keep all those pesky pedestrians firmly in their place. It won't become a shared space simply by putting up a sign. This suggests that either the designers haven't a clue what shared space entails or the sign writers haven't a clue where the shared space is.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on October 17, 2011, 08:57:31 am
Pete, that is absolutely spot on. You should repost it in the comments under the story.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Riggers on October 17, 2011, 09:00:37 am
Seconded!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on October 17, 2011, 08:31:29 pm
..... It won't become a shared space simply by putting up a sign. This suggests that either the designers haven't a clue what shared space entails .......

I don't think the designers do know what shared space it.     You are absolutely correct in that the seafront is a
--> pavement | kerb | road | kerb | pavement  <--
layout.



Southend Council publicised TWO shared space schemes.  They are still referring to "Victoria Gateway" as a shared space scheme.

Here's the Council's publicity design picture
(http://www.visitsouthend.co.uk/img/featureboxes/Victoria-Gateway--web.jpg)
Here it is, photographed on flickr by somebody.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fred_bear/5591924371/in/photostream/lightbox/

Yes, that is a 30mph dual carriageway T-Junciton with traffic lights you can see.    Where is the shared space?   I think the Council refer to that triangular pavement (separated from the train station by a dedicated bus lane to the left of the photo) as 'shared space'...

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on October 18, 2011, 08:13:51 am
I thought the shared space area was the grayed part of the road. Tbh I quite like the Victoria Gateway. Its a lot better to navigate the area on bicycle imo.
Shared space is a good idea as well. The thing that saddens me most is motorists who say they dont understand the bit of road/shared space they are on, but will not do the simple thing and slow down.
 
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on October 18, 2011, 08:49:51 am
I thought the shared space area was the grayed part of the road. Tbh I quite like the Victoria Gateway. Its a lot better to navigate the area on bicycle imo.
Shared space is a good idea as well. The thing that saddens me most is motorists who say they dont understand the bit of road/shared space they are on, but will not do the simple thing and slow down.
 

I had a woman in a white Range Rover tell me to "Get on the cycle lane because 'we' pay enough for people like you", as I made my way along City Beach yesterday.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on October 18, 2011, 09:17:23 am
Should have told her to use the A13, cause 'we' pay enough for people like you  ;D
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on October 18, 2011, 09:41:58 am
I hope you asked her if she actually paid council tax in Southend.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on October 18, 2011, 04:16:18 pm
I didn't have time. I had asked her to please try not to kill anyone after she overtook me 30 yards from the red light at the Kursaal, and that's when she went into moton/Clarkson mode. I couldn't be arsed with getting into the minutiae of car tax/road tax/council tax/we-all-pay-the-same-taxes-it isn't-my-fault-you-don't-use-all-the-facilities-provided-for-you... as the lights were changing, so just told her to 'Get that ugly pile of wank moving, you're holding up traffic'.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on October 18, 2011, 06:59:22 pm
This is how invisible cyclists in Southend are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqAm3Xzq35g
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Adrian on October 18, 2011, 11:21:00 pm
At the end of the day a simple "fuck off" is usually the clearest message.
Title: Re: Sometimes cyclists are the baddies....
Post by: nuttycyclist on October 27, 2011, 01:08:56 pm
Interesting thought comes from a comment over on the locked thread from this morning...


Honest John, but where is the law banning inline and quad skaters from cycle lanes?  If you can't find that, it's only your opinion, and it's wrong.



I've already referred you to the relevant legislation.

Some cycle lanes/tracks/paths can be only for cyclists.  It is only those cycle lanes/tracks/paths which have been created from a pre-existing footpath which by default can be used by pedestrians.


Since the seafront path has been created from the existing carriageway does this mean it is to all extents and purposes a "road" which can be used by cyclists, vehicles, skaters, pedestrians?

I am not aware of any requests that the council have made with regards this path, and since it was not a footway conversion they wouldn't have had to go down the 1984 cycletracks act route* either...


Any thoughts from any relevant parties in here?







* hmmmm, this makes me think, Cuckoo Corner now has painted lanes on the pavement, would these have needed legal requests put in?   I wonder if the Council did that or just put paint down?
Title: Re: Sometimes cyclists are the baddies....
Post by: teethgrinder on October 27, 2011, 08:20:12 pm
Since the seafront path has been created from the existing carriageway does this mean it is to all extents and purposes a "road" which can be used by cyclists, vehicles, skaters, pedestrians?


I personally doubt that, but don't actually know. I'd guess that you can't take a pavement away from a pedestrian by turning it into a cyclepath. But the cars still have a road to use in this case, so still have somewhere to go.
But, as I don't know for sure, I'll keep this in mind the next time I use a Sustrans converted railway and keep an eye out for trains. ;)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on November 01, 2011, 05:22:43 pm
Any ideas as to what the thinking is behind doing this to the entrance/exit of the Western Esplanade cycle track? It isn't finished yet, but it looks a perfect way to get an unsuspecting cyclist to do a faceplant as they hit the kerb.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Kerb.jpg)

Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on November 01, 2011, 05:31:05 pm
Are they raising the kerb to prevent vehicles driving on the path?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on November 01, 2011, 05:40:02 pm
That area was a bit of a problem area with cars stopping to go into the three shells thing.
 
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on November 01, 2011, 05:40:40 pm
I did see that they appeared to have widened the footpath/done other work there last time I went through (last September).

Are they extending it to the non-shared space of shitty beach?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on November 01, 2011, 05:45:49 pm
It was originally going to go under the pier, but I thought that got scrapped  :-\
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: nuttycyclist on November 01, 2011, 05:48:35 pm
Original plan was south of Adventure Island (under the pier where there is no headroom).  That was scrapped.

Not heard anything (Council doesn't talk to local cycling reps) but from what I saw last time I passed I did wonder if they were going to extend it under pier between pavement and road.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on November 01, 2011, 05:51:35 pm
Has anyone asked Sara Hadden? I think she's got her heart in the right place, even though she's nowhere near policy-making.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on November 01, 2011, 05:51:57 pm
Quote
but from what I saw last time I passed I did wonder if they were going to extend it under pier between pavement and road.

It looked like that to me, but I dont use that part of the seafront now, or havent for a few months. Normally go up Pier Hill to get away from it   :(

Looking at the plans of Western Esplanard it looks as though originally the cycle path was going to end there. Looks as though for some reason it wasnt done before. And there is a reference to Diagram 1003 new drop kerb arangement
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on November 06, 2011, 07:03:57 pm
I see there is going to be a Hill Climb event along Pier Hill, 11th Dec 12-4pm
Not sure if there is a link to the event
http://www.cyclesouthend.co.uk/events-and-activities/pier-pressure/ (http://www.cyclesouthend.co.uk/events-and-activities/pier-pressure/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on November 06, 2011, 07:09:48 pm
It's a Southend Wheelers event: http://www.southendwheelers.org/pierPressure.htm
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on December 05, 2011, 12:11:25 pm
It's nice to see standards being upheld. I noticed that the oil slick and litter are still evident outside the casino on Western Esplanade!

Lime quarters and glass.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kzeykTuIvHI/TtyszvmA6TI/AAAAAAAAGUk/3LbnfgTtgOo/s640/pc055698.jpg)

I used fill that hole to report as I couldn't find a council form to fill in.  ::-)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on December 05, 2011, 12:28:37 pm
You can contact Cllr Tony Cox (Cllr for transport) directly, either through his local tory group or at the council. cllrcox@southend.gov.uk

There are some useful phone numbers too.

Parking, Highways and Transport     01702 215003

Environmental Health, Trading Standards and Licensing     01702 215005

Waste, Fly tipping, Fly posting and Graffiti     01702 215006

Email is the preferred method as it creates a record of your complaint and their replies.
If you do email make sure to CC it to the Echo, that tends to get the council off its arse.

I've been complaining about crap in the cycle lane outside the casinos for over a year.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on December 05, 2011, 01:33:23 pm
Fill That Hole has a record, also of previous reports of oil and rubbish at that spot.
I've emailed the councillor but not CC'd the Echo, I might mail them if there is no answer from SoSgov.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on December 05, 2011, 01:42:12 pm
Got a reply:

"Many thanks for the email. I have forwarded this to officers for action to be instigated."

If anyone is using the path can they check to see if limes and broken glass are still there?
I doubt the oil slick will disappear though!
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on December 06, 2011, 12:58:01 pm
Another reply:

Thank you for your e-mail addressed to Cllr Tony Cox.

I can advise that we too are concerned that this issue has recurred. I
have asked my Environmental Care Manager to revisit the Casino again in
relation to this matter.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

Yours sincerely,

 - Group Manager Waste & Environmental Care


Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on December 06, 2011, 01:46:50 pm
I sent the following yesterday afternoon:

Dear Cllr Cox,

In August 2010 I wrote to Southend council (Cllr Flewitt) regarding sewage and mess being dumped in the seafront cycle lane by Maxims Casino. At that time I was told by Stephen Crowther (Group Manager Waste & Street Scene):

"I can inform you that I personally visited the Casino early Friday evening and met with the duty manager. I showed him the area in question and he stated that he will arrange for the area to be cleared. He also assured me that he will raise this matter with the appropriate personnel to prevent any recurrence."

Despite these assurances from Maxims Casino we continue to see waste and debris being dumped in the cycle lane outside maxims Casino on a regular basis. Please see attached photographs taken today Monday 5th December., when broken glass, food debris, and an oil slick have appeared in the cycle lane. This is due to the cycle lane being used for parking by refuse vehicles.
 It is bad enough trying to pass the casino in the evenings - when taxis, mini buses, and customers illegally use the cycle lane as a lay-by - without having to contend with cycling through oil, waste food, and broken glass.

This has been going on for almost 18 months now. When are Southend Council going to take a stand and stop this happening? If this was a member of the public regularly fouling the path outside their house I have no doubt Southend Council would take swift action. Why does Maxims Casino appear to have carte blanche to leave mess in the cycle lane on an almost daily basis?

Cyclists pay the same taxes as everyone else in the Borough, as such we should be able to use provided cycle facilities without risk of damage to our cycles or injury to ourselves.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Sincerely,
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on December 17, 2011, 12:19:55 pm
What are SBC doing with the Western Esp. path? Do they know?

Pics from this mornings dog walk.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-28PmoMHQLGw/TuxXH3GEpWI/AAAAAAAAGXQ/hh_3VIWQuOU/s640/pc175721.jpg)

Looking west, Mind the step!
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-r5yjlHRgh8M/TuxXKZcsh6I/AAAAAAAAGXg/J9GxTpyFRhs/s640/pc175722.jpg)

Possibly continuing the path across Adventure Island to the Pier Head underpass.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1tyhJdUDcmk/TuxXJOtPaRI/AAAAAAAAGXY/2xAIM9RGJPk/s640/pc175723.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-THz91cJkQIA/TuxXMU4oX8I/AAAAAAAAGXo/bfBZ1aRGwLo/s640/pc175724.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on January 11, 2012, 06:29:03 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWPxhtvj4FM
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on January 11, 2012, 06:43:05 pm
What is it with the council and drop kerbs?
Going further west from the three shells if you join the seafront path from any of the roads  running down to the seafront to get on, or off the path you need to perform a bunny hop  :( WTF  :(

Btw that kerb in the video is the worst so far. See you next tuesdays  >:(
If you go under the pier its not to bad now its not busy. Be a nightmare in the summer though.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on January 12, 2012, 03:55:00 pm
In tonights Echo, though not sure about on-line version
Sutton Road Tempory Prohibition of Traffic Order
Between Purdeys Way and Chandlers Way road closed for two nights in order to install double white lines and road studs for 1776m.
Further addition to the No Overtaking signs  :-\
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on January 16, 2012, 06:14:41 pm
That's actually probably not a bad thing in practice.

Heading north, Sutton Road is pretty fast for cyclists - 15 to 20 mph is pretty easy to maintain even for a fatty like me. Lots of motorists won't want to cross the white lines because it's not legal (ok, it is if I'm doing less than 10 mph) and that might hold a lot of traffic back. If you get a cautious driver behind you, then the whole lot will be held up.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Domestique on January 16, 2012, 06:24:21 pm
There is now an on line version
http://www.echo-news.co.uk/announcements/public_notices/legal_notices/public_notices/9469469._Sutton_Road__Sutton___Temporary_Prohibition_of_Traffic__Order_2012/
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on January 16, 2012, 06:30:13 pm
That's actually probably not a bad thing in practice.

Heading north, Sutton Road is pretty fast for cyclists - 15 to 20 mph is pretty easy to maintain even for a fatty like me. Lots of motorists won't want to cross the white lines because it's not legal (ok, it is if I'm doing less than 10 mph) and that might hold a lot of traffic back. If you get a cautious driver behind you, then the whole lot will be held up.

But on the other hand if you get one of the 95% of stupid drivers behind you they'll just squeeze past as close as they can at speed.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on January 16, 2012, 10:49:47 pm
They do that anyway.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on January 17, 2012, 11:00:05 am
Southend Victoria railway station has a new, secure, cycle parking shed! Need a key from the ticket office to get in, probably a small charge to have one. Room for about 30ish bikes, only two in there this morning.

edit: Pictures of shed and rest of station bike parking.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2aNhHVjUoKY/Txp1bNOlJyI/AAAAAAAAGa0/Bbl58XMFw-0/s640/p1215796.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_8SH_BeNhUs/Txp1auulpQI/AAAAAAAAGas/_ZIpt6LjI0Y/s640/p1215797.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rcBHxkLxXJw/Txp1a7jybCI/AAAAAAAAGaw/oJYu1JIvb2w/s640/p1215798.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wendy on January 17, 2012, 11:17:26 am
I'm not sure I could agree with 95% of drivers being stupid, if that's what you meant. I'd say more than 95% of drivers are actually rather brill, it's only a tiny minority that cause real problems and danger.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on January 18, 2012, 09:36:17 pm
Southend Victoria railway station has a new, secure, cycle parking shed! Need a key from the ticket office to get in, probably a small charge to have one. Room for about 30ish bikes, only two in there this morning.

When this was announced in one of the Cycle Forum meetings last year, we were told that only season ticket holders would be able to "rent" a key and space in the Secure shed.

Occasionally I have a look in when i'm going past and I've never seen more than 2 bikes inside.

Most of the offices along victoria avenue have totally inadequate cycle parking (just look at the number of bikes chained to the railings), Maybe Eastern National should think about allowing non season ticket holders to pay for access to the secure shed. I'm sure there would be plenty of people in the surrounding offices who would be willing to pay for secure parking.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Speshact on February 10, 2012, 09:51:02 am
Cycling England Cycling City and Towns end of programme reports now available to download for each City/Town at DfT site here (http://www.dft.gov.uk/publications/cycling-city-and-towns-end-of-programme-reports/)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on February 10, 2012, 10:49:12 am
Southend had around £6m to spend on cycling… I'm only seeing about £3.5m spent?
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: 2_Flat_Erics on February 10, 2012, 01:35:11 pm
Southend had around £6m to spend on cycling… I'm only seeing about £3.5m spent?

I had a similar thought.

One thing that did stand out was £76 K spent on NCN 16 East beach. Either i'm missunderstanding the location or this is a massive amount of money for a painted white line.

I posted this video just after the white lines went down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFIPhzDm1uw&feature=plcp&context=C3bf5f3cUDOEgsToPDskJ87faAsQEX4cw4aeUKstAt

How can that cost £76 K ???????
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: delthebike on February 13, 2012, 08:24:01 am
I see that SBC didn't use the four new quad bikes to de ice any of the bike paths in town! Victoria Ave, and the Greenway remained grit free throughout the snow and ice. Fairfax Drive to East Street was clear but only due to motors spreading the grit from the road to the shared path.
Pics taken this morning.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ovza1vkWHh4/TzjFAOdEIrI/AAAAAAAAGdQ/fQnVXNwFANs/s640/p2135869.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nowSWc7Gj3w/TzjFNl8QuBI/AAAAAAAAGeM/zlNqFAWscWU/s640/p2135876.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tmRnPMfcBeA/TzjEvEDDvtI/AAAAAAAAGcI/VyafXlvbPqk/s640/p2135862.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jP5tPcUeets/TzjEueh1VNI/AAAAAAAAGcE/Vk8TOHM4avc/s640/p2135861.jpg)
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: AndyK on February 13, 2012, 08:42:11 am
What are SBC doing with the Western Esp. path? Do they know?

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-THz91cJkQIA/TuxXMU4oX8I/AAAAAAAAGXo/bfBZ1aRGwLo/s640/pc175724.jpg)

It's even better now… they've added a black metal bollard in the centre of what used to be the entrance/exit of the cycle path.
Title: Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
Post by: Wowbagger on February 13, 2012, 08:47:33 am