edge 200 for AAA points

[Revellinho]

I struggle to do a 300 as a DIY by gps if it is proper hilly, as it takes too long for my edge 500.  I've tried using an external battery but am not happy with that as a solution.  The cheapest option seems to be to buy another unit and just swap devices half way round.  For longer rides still, I could use a system with one charging in the bag and one in use. 

Can I submit a track from an edge 200 and is it OK to submit 2 tracks from 2 devices?  Edge 200s seem to be a lot cheaper on ebay. 

I'm assuming that the height data missing from the edge 200 tracks is irrelevant as the AAA man will 'overlay' my tracks onto his own height calculating software - is that how it works these days?  [I don't intend using a gps for navigation, don't need sensors and I haven't got £200 ]

[whosatthewheel]

You might struggle even with a 200 if it's hilly. You can at best get 15 hours and even there you are borderline.
Not sure what the problem is with an external Anker... you can plug it in while you are having food and it charges the unit pretty quickly, as long as you have the right kind of cable that doesn't mess up with your track recording

[grams]

Vuy a cheapy Android phone like this - they all have GPS hardware. Don't bother putting the SIM in. Download a GPS logging app (Strava will do). Start it recording, put it to sleep and stick it in your bag. Since the screen and CPU and cellular/wifi radios aren't doing anything the battery will last a very long time, potentially multiple days.

[fuaran]

I'm assuming that the height data missing from the edge 200 tracks is irrelevant as the AAA man will 'overlay' my tracks onto his own height calculating software - is that how it works these days?

Why is the height data missing from the tracks? Surely it still records it in the FIT file? I know there have been a few Garmins that don't record elevation (eg Forerunner 10), but I didn't think the Edge was like this.

[Wycombewheeler]

You might struggle even with a 200 if it's hilly. You can at best get 15 hours and even there you are borderline.
Not sure what the problem is with an external Anker... you can plug it in while you are having food and it charges the unit pretty quickly, as long as you have the right kind of cable that doesn't mess up with your track recording

As the ti.e limit is 13.5 or 14hours, 15 hour battery life should be enough.

I'm sure I found plugging in a battery mid ride causes the garmin to reset, but problems feedingvthe garmin from an maker in a top tube bag while riding, then taking cable out midway.

To maximise battery life you can turn off Bluetooth and ant+ sensors, reduce backlight intensity and duration. Garmin gps watches have longer lufe if you dont need the head unit for navigation. Should get 20 hours out of a charge.

[Wycombewheeler]

I'm assuming that the height data missing from the edge 200 tracks is irrelevant as the AAA man will 'overlay' my tracks onto his own height calculating software - is that how it works these days?

Why is the height data missing from the tracks? Surely it still records it in the FIT file? I know there have been a few Garmins that don't record elevation (eg Forerunner 10), but I didn't think the Edge was like this.

Not sure it's missing as such but probably records height data from gps rather than altimeter which some people consider less accurate. I have had some very suspect elevation readings from garmin 510 massive over reading on windy day and massive under reading in the wet.

[Revellinho]

I'm not sure I'd like a phone as I like to have the garmin on the top tube, so I can see the distance travelled when following a route sheet.  Also like to have the temp, time, current speed, average speed, elapsed time and compass heading scrolling through whilst I ride.  I've never had a problem with battery life on a 200 and I've used it on a 400 calendar by charging when I stop, but it is another layer of faff and becomes more crucial on a DIY, whereas on a calendar it doesn't matter if it goes tits up.  If I charge whilst riding it means I have to mount the unit sideways to get the lead in and have a little top tube bag for the charger.  It works fine if you start the track after plugging in, but it is a sub-optimal solution.

[Kim]

Why use an Edge at all if you're just logging?  A basic eTrex model will do it perfectly without any of the battery angst, overly long track log bugs or having to remember to press 'start'.

[grams]

I'm not sure I'd like a phone as I like to have the garmin on the top tube

I'm suggesting you use both - phone in your back/back pocket, Garmin on your handlebars, and then you also have a backup recording if one or the other fails.

(I can't imagine doing a DIY and depending on a single device to record the track - I usually have 3 and sometimes 4 GPS devices recording: My current phone, my old phone, a Timex GPS bike computer and a video camera)

[Wycombewheeler]

I'm not sure I'd like a phone as I like to have the garmin on the top tube, so I can see the distance travelled when following a route sheet.  Also like to have the temp, time, current speed, average speed, elapsed time and compass heading scrolling through whilst I ride.  I've never had a problem with battery life on a 200 and I've used it on a 400 calendar by charging when I stop, but it is another layer of faff and becomes more crucial on a DIY, whereas on a calendar it doesn't matter if it goes tits up.  If I charge whilst riding it means I have to mount the unit sideways to get the lead in and have a little top tube bag for the charger.  It works fine if you start the track after plugging in, but it is a sub-optimal solution.

K edge out front mount lets me mount 5he garmin correctly and plug in. Battery shares top tube bag with sweets.

[frankly frankie]

Wow.  Several different universes in this thread.

[Wobbly]

Indeed.

Laminated pages from a road atlas and a handful of receipts. My 1990's GPS...

[αdαmsκι]

is it OK to submit 2 tracks from 2 devices?

Surely there's no need because gpx files are simple text files and so it's pretty easy use a text editor to manually combine two gpx tracklogs into one file and there are probably ways it can be done online as well.

[Ivan]

I'm assuming that the height data missing from the edge 200 tracks is irrelevant as the AAA man will 'overlay' my tracks onto his own height calculating software - is that how it works these days?

Basically yes (if you are talking about DIYs in Great Britain). But I think he would appreciate a single track as the software he uses doesn't accept multiple tracks at the moment.

[frankly frankie]

But the elevation data is used in verifying that the tracklog is a 'ridden by bike' tracklog.  Though I think all that happens if that test fails is a red flag is raised, which is not in itself a total fail.

[Revellinho]

I'm assuming that the height data missing from the edge 200 tracks is irrelevant as the AAA man will 'overlay' my tracks onto his own height calculating software - is that how it works these days?

Basically yes (if you are talking about DIYs in Great Britain). But I think he would appreciate a single track as the software he uses doesn't accept multiple tracks at the moment.

If the AAA man is only assessing height climbed then (if it is only once in a blue moon) the tracks can be assessed separately and the two values added?  Surely not many folk are doing AAA DIYs over 200km? 

It might also be simple for me to remove header/footer data from the second track and just paste it into the file of the first track.  Not tried that, but will have a go at some point. 

As an aside, I found it cheaper to buy a second Edge than get an etrex.  About £45 for an identical Edge on ebay - just 'won' it today.  Plus I like the Edge 500, probably just because it is what I'm used to looking at.

[whosatthewheel]

As we are on the topic. The Edge series churn out a FIT file. The organisers want a GPX track file... how do I convert one into the other retaining the time information? Do I need GPSbabel?

[Greenbank]

There are various tools. I use a Linux command line utility called fit2tcx (and then I can trim out the tcx extensions to get a gpx file).

The easiest for most people is to upload the .fit to Garmin Connect (if you don't already automatically sync the device with GC) and then export a GPX file from Garmin Connect (go to the activity in GC, click on the little cog near the top right and select 'Export GPX').

[whosatthewheel]

There are various tools. I use a Linux command line utility called fit2tcx (and then I can trim out the tcx extensions to get a gpx file).

The easiest for most people is to upload the .fit to Garmin Connect (if you don't already automatically sync the device with GC) and then export a GPX file from Garmin Connect (go to the activity in GC, click on the little cog near the top right and select 'Export GPX').

Will that GPX retain the vital time information?

There are various tools that accept FIT files and churn out GPX, but for validation purpose the time information still needs to be there, as well as the GPS coordinates. I am still unclear about what the difference is between a GPX track and a GPX route... does the former include time information and the latter doesn't?

[frankly frankie]

GPX is a standard wrapper that can contain any number of Tracks, Routes and Waypoints in any combination.  The way we use it, it generally only contains one Track, sometimes more than one - but really that's a special instance of a much more general format. 
So it's a Track if the embedded code inside the GPX says its a Track, and a Route if the embedded code says its a Route.  Both are just lists of points.  Either can optionally have timestamp and elevation attributes, among other things.   There's not really much difference between the two things except that a GPS (and most software) treats them differently.
TCX and FIT are proprietary Garmin formats, as opposed to 'standard' - although FIT is being adopted by other manufacturers now.

[Revellinho]

There are various tools. I use a Linux command line utility called fit2tcx (and then I can trim out the tcx extensions to get a gpx file).

The easiest for most people is to upload the .fit to Garmin Connect (if you don't already automatically sync the device with GC) and then export a GPX file from Garmin Connect (go to the activity in GC, click on the little cog near the top right and select 'Export GPX').

I may have misunderstood, but I was under the impression that the straightforward upload and export from Garmin Express was no longer sufficient for the DIY/AAA process.  I have been uploading to Strava and exporting from there for the past year or so when submitting files.

[Greenbank]

I may have misunderstood, but I was under the impression that the straightforward upload and export from Garmin Express was no longer sufficient for the DIY/AAA process.  I have been uploading to Strava and exporting from there for the past year or so when submitting files.

I just tried it with the Nyctophobic I rode at the weekend. I get a GPX file with a single track and single track segment, no laps, but with hr and cadence extensions:-

Code: [Select]

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<gpx creator="Garmin Connect" version="1.1"
  xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1 http://www.topografix.com/GPX/11.xsd"
  xmlns="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1"
  xmlns:ns3="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/TrackPointExtension/v1"
  xmlns:ns2="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/GpxExtensions/v3" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
  <metadata>
    <link href="connect.garmin.com">
      <text>Garmin Connect</text>
    </link>
    <time>2017-10-14T07:32:17.000Z</time>
  </metadata>
  <trk>
    <name>Nyctophobic 100</name>
    <type>cycling</type>
    <trkseg>
      <trkpt lat="51.61005039699375629425048828125" lon="-0.5560774169862270355224609375">
        <ele>57.59999847412109375</ele>
        <time>2017-10-14T07:32:17.000Z</time>
        <extensions>
          <ns3:TrackPointExtension>
            <ns3:hr>135</ns3:hr>
            <ns3:cad>43</ns3:cad>
          </ns3:TrackPointExtension>
        </extensions>
      </trkpt>
      <trkpt lat="51.61002391017973423004150390625" lon="-0.55605101399123668670654296875">
...

If the AUK software isn't able to ignore the metadata, type and extensions attributes then there might be a problem. I could imagine a naive XML parser struggling with those. They're easy to clean out with a tool like grep though.

Otherwise it looks perfectly fine (comedy lat/lon/ele precision aside).

[frankly frankie]

I think the software's fine with that, provided the bloat hasn't made the file so big it won't upload.

[Greenbank]

I think the software's fine with that, provided the bloat hasn't made the file so big it won't upload.

9.5MB for just a 100km ride as is (one data point per second).

4.7MB if I remove the cadence/hr extensions.

3.4MB if I truncate each lat/lon/ele number to just 5 decimal places.

2.7MB if I remove all of the spaces at the beginning of each line. I could shave another .1MB off by removing the carriage returns.

After that any reductions would have to be done by removing all but every n data points.

The corresponding .FIT file for this ride is just under 1MB and that also contains must more data (lap data, power meter data every second and probably HR variability data too).

[frankly frankie]

Yes FIT does look like a good format and it would be great to develop the software to accept it.
4.7Mb would zip down to an acceptable size, 9.5Mb probably wouldn't (about 8.5 would probably be the max).

Most of the upload problems I see (in an error log) are of the 'file too big' variety.  There is now the possibilty of using Phil's utility to reduce tracklog sizes - it's not an ideal thing to do (stripping out some points), but this option might be worth exploring.  After all if you're recording 1 point per second you have points to burn.

Simple GPX updated today.
https://simple-gpx.herokuapp.com/

It will round the lat / lon coordinates of the track down to 5 decimal places. I believe this is a precision of about 1 metre, rather than the misleading indicated precision and untold decimal places you find in source GPX tracks these days.
Options to retain the time stamp and / or elevation data in a track. Elevation data will be rounded to the nearest metre. The default is that this data will be stripped out.   If you intend to navigate a track then please don't choose to retain time stamp data. Some GPS units do not like it.

I would suggest using the '5 metre' setting for tracklogs - this retains the most data. And of course retain the time stamps and elevations.  Out of interest, what does your 9.5Mb file end up as if you run it through this?