Author Topic: Changing from cantis to V-brakes on my 2005 Dawes Galaxy  (Read 2703 times)

Changing from cantis to V-brakes on my 2005 Dawes Galaxy
« on: 12 July, 2018, 08:59:12 am »
I'm fed up with trying to get the original Oryx canti to work well on my Galaxy touring bike and want to change to V brakes.

I've shmergo'd it and it has 2008-ish centaur 10sp sti's and 9st Deore rear mech that works well.

Would I just need to buy some travel agents and v-brakes (prob Shimano XT) and replace as a direct swap, or do I need to do anything else - obviously, I'd re-cable as well.

Any hints appreciated.

TIA... Paul

Re: Changing from cantis to V0brakes on my 2005 Dawes Galaxy
« Reply #1 on: 12 July, 2018, 09:08:46 am »
AIUI, if you went for mini-Vs then the lever cable pull should be OK as is, and you wouldn't need the Travel Agents.

Re: Changing from cantis to V-brakes on my 2005 Dawes Galaxy
« Reply #2 on: 12 July, 2018, 09:23:39 am »
Yes, wondered about mini v's, but what size - 80mm, 85mm, 90mm????  I though using a travel agent and normal v-brakes would be easiest as I run 35mm tyres, mudguargs and have a dyno light all possibly getting in the way!

Re: Changing from cantis to V-brakes on my 2005 Dawes Galaxy
« Reply #3 on: 12 July, 2018, 10:07:42 am »
I use mini-V s from Planet X and they are excellent, although I doubt they would stretch to 35mm tyres.

However, I have Tektro Oryx brakes on my tourer and they are perfectly good when adjusted properly - but I agree that can be fiddly.  But rather than bodging, the other option is to get better cantis.  I've not used them myself (they were my second option if the Mini-Vs didn't work) but many people rave about Avid Shortys:
https://www.sram.com/sram/road/products/avid-shorty-ultimate

Re: Changing from cantis to V-brakes on my 2005 Dawes Galaxy
« Reply #4 on: 12 July, 2018, 10:14:11 am »
Delighted here, with the Avid Shortys that are now on the Pompino.
They are infinitely better made and easier to adjust then the Tektro CR720s which they replaced, and in a completely different world to the Oryxs which were on there before them.
You very much get what you pay for.

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Re: Changing from cantis to V-brakes on my 2005 Dawes Galaxy
« Reply #5 on: 12 July, 2018, 10:19:05 am »
I ran V-brakes with travel agents from Campag Mirage 8-speed levers for many years without any problems on my Dawes Galaxy's cobbled together Shimergo set up. (8-speed Campag levers, Shimano Deore LX 6/7 speed rear mech, Shimano 6 speed freewheel, TA Cyclotouriste triple chainset and Sachs-Huret double front mech. Still working many years later!)
I have recently changed the brakes for Shimano CX50 cantilevers (with CX70 replaceable cartridge pad holders), but only because the V-brakes had worn out!
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Re: Changing from cantis to V-brakes on my 2005 Dawes Galaxy
« Reply #6 on: 12 July, 2018, 10:26:47 am »
Which shorty's - wide or narrow  ??? ??? ???

Re: Changing from cantis to V-brakes on my 2005 Dawes Galaxy
« Reply #7 on: 12 July, 2018, 10:29:39 am »
I upgraded the brakes on my tourer from Avid Shorty 6s (which I found fairly average) to Avid Shorty Ultimates. The Ultimates are without doubt the best cantis I've ever used (not that I've used that many to be fair!)

The first part of my tour was very wet and I did many fully loaded wet descents - including col d'Aubisque which was mostly in the clouds and soaking! They performed really well. They are also much easier to set up and adjust than other cantis I've used.
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Re: Changing from cantis to V-brakes on my 2005 Dawes Galaxy
« Reply #8 on: 12 July, 2018, 10:35:00 am »
Which shorty's - wide or narrow  ??? ??? ???

Just read the manual and there is only one variant.  I'll buy these from Bike24 as the narrow version is 5EUR cheaper than the wide version!

Re: Changing from cantis to V-brakes on my 2005 Dawes Galaxy
« Reply #9 on: 12 July, 2018, 10:39:15 am »
Which shorty's - wide or narrow  ??? ??? ???

Just read the manual and there is only one variant.  I'll buy these from Bike24 as the narrow version is 5EUR cheaper than the wide version!
If I remember correctly the Ultimates which are on bobb's bike and mine, give you the option of fitting them as narrow or wide - depending on how you fit them.
ETA - and what bobb said about adjusting them. In terms of performance I'd rate them the same as the Ultegra dual pivot side pulls I have on one of my other bikes.

Re: Changing from cantis to V-brakes on my 2005 Dawes Galaxy
« Reply #10 on: 12 July, 2018, 10:42:04 am »
If I remember correctly the Ultimates which are on bobb's bike and mine, give you the option of fitting them as narrow or wide - depending on how you fit them.

Indeed. That confused me when I first got them as they came set up narrow and wouldn't fit! Easy to change though once I'd downloaded the instructions. (No instructions came with them)
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Re: Changing from cantis to V-brakes on my 2005 Dawes Galaxy
« Reply #11 on: 12 July, 2018, 10:57:28 am »
This is an area I have played about with for years. My wife is not a downhill rider so requires good stopping brakes plus she insists on using sti levers on her drop bars. To improve her braking I have tried every combination to get the best of both worlds. Mini Vs overall are the best compromise and the best ones of those I have tried is the Sora R353 Flat Bar V-Brakes. They work well, are easy on her hands and give good stopping.

I have just fitted a similar combination to my Jackson and find them better than cantis.

The worst was trying to get the travel agents to work with full V brakes, spent hours trying to get the setting right but was never happy with the spongy feel of the brakes.
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Re: Changing from cantis to V-brakes on my 2005 Dawes Galaxy
« Reply #12 on: 12 July, 2018, 11:39:40 am »
I don't know how much the cable pull varies between Campag and Shimano, peoples experience with one might not transfer to the other, or even another group within the same brand.
I'm currently building a bike and hoped to use 90mm arm mini Vs with 9spd Veloce Ergos, it isn't going well! On the front I can just about get it it working satisfactorily though the blocks are closer to the rim than I'd consider ideal.  On the rear it's even worse, probably due to the extra compression in the longer outer cable.  In both I've got some fairly soft pads, so it may be that there's adequate stopping power before the lever is fully compressed, but I don't think I'll risk it.
Options I'm considering:
Go back to cantis - I have some sat in a draw, though recently sold the better ones :facepalm:
Try a shorter arm V brake
Give up on the ergos and use dedicated V brake levers
Buy some V brake cross top levers like these and use them as the primary brake lever
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brake-levers/tektro-rl740-top-mount-v-brake-lever-240mm-clamp/


Re: Changing from cantis to V-brakes on my 2005 Dawes Galaxy
« Reply #13 on: 12 July, 2018, 11:41:25 am »
FWIW mini-vs will not be a very good match for campag ergos (or shimano STI models that were launched before 2008). A spongy brake with stuff-all running clearance will be the result. They work much better with later models of STI which have 'new super slr' (NSSLR) cable pull, which is longer.

Avid shortys and tektro oryx brakes are built very similarly, both in terms of geometry and construction.  They also share a straddle that is a copy of shimano M-system from twenty-odd years ago, but in Avids and tektros the metal is not strong enough; these straddles break quite often.   They also don't come in enough different lengths; you are better off fitting a traditional yoke and adjustable length straddle instead.

The current shorty models have a different looking arm but share the same geometry as the older ones which are virtually identical to oryx arms. There are a few differences though

1) the oryx arms are (IIRC) fractionally shorter
2) the avids come with decent brake blocks (and the tektros don't)
3) the tektros are made so that running a low straddle wire is slightly more awkward.

On the last point, the oryx arm with the straddle slot in has the slot in the wrong place; it needs to be deeper and with an improved entry radius, if the brake is to be used with a low straddle setting (which gives the highest MA). A few moments work with a file will sort this out.


If you

a) fit new brake cables (you would be amazed at how many people find their 'new brakes' work so much better when really it is new cables that are making the difference...…)
b) set the straddle cables low, and the arms wide (often extra washers are required to space the brake blocks out)
c) fit decent brake blocks
d) dismantle and grease the integral pivot bushings in the arms (which are usually bone-dry or partially seized)

(most of which you would do/have with new brakes anyway...) you may well find that the oryx brakes are not so bad after all.  I think that shortys are better, but not that much better; the main advantage is that they are slightly easier to set up.

Avid ultimates are really meant for CX racers; you get to choose wide arm setting (low MA, large running clearance, for when it is muddy) or mid-arm setting (high MA, smaller running clearance, for when it is dry).  The fancy pivot bearings give lower friction for longer, even when there is lots of mud about the place.  You probably don't need that per se, not on a touring bike.  MA values are comparable with shortys.

Shimano BR-CX50/70 cantis are very good and (because they have slightly longer arms than shortys, I think,) are powerful enough that they can be used with NSSLR levers. With ergos or older STIs they are pretty powerful; again straddle height can be used to tune the brake power.

If you want a touring canti brake that is intrinsically a lot more powerful than most others, Pauls are worth a look. They are fiercely expensive though. A less expensive alternative are the cantis made by VO;


http://freshtripe.co.uk/velo-orange-grand-cru-zeste-cantilever-brake/

even if set up badly (with a high straddle as per the photo), these brakes are pretty strong and if set up for maximum power (with a low straddle) they are amongst the most powerful brakes you can buy. They accept 'road' pattern inserts which gives you the widest choice of brake blocks.

Note that if planning to fit any long-arm canti, you need a bit more vertical clearance from the hanger; small frame sizes don't always offer enough clearance in this regard.

Note also that the range of MA adjustment in the long arm cantis is such that you can use them with ergo or 'old' STIs, as well as with newer NSSLR type STIs.

hth

cheers

Re: Changing from cantis to V-brakes on my 2005 Dawes Galaxy
« Reply #14 on: 12 July, 2018, 01:48:24 pm »
I've been very impressed with the Shimano CX50s cantis that Brucey recommend to me, I use these with Swissstop FlashPro BXP pads (and Shimano Ultergra brake shoes - the stock CX50 combined pads are not great) and Shimano R400 levers, stopping ability is a big improvement on the Tektro 720 cantis I had on previously.
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