Sky - gaming the system?

[trekker12]

The "overzealous rules" have been brought in to counter decades of systematic, cynical and increasingly convoluted drug cheating and are targeted at known performance-enhancing drugs.  How do you think public confidence would be affected if (as you imply) those pesky rules were relaxed?

Currently we have sportspeople being dragged over the coals for taking legal or inconsequential substances. There is near-zero “public confidence” in cycling despite these actions.

The era of massive oxygen-vector doping is over. That distorted sport as we understand it and was worth fighting with extreme measures. But now society holds cyclists to impossible moral standards (see the Wiggins case) with consequences arguably more harmful than residual doping.

In the present case, the public should simply not know about Froome’s AAF, since people equate an AAF with doping (not to mention salbutamol with EPO). For these reasons and others, the UCI is not allowed to tell us about an AAF unless the athlete consents. Leaks like this one ruin careers and the sport’s reputation. And for what? To sell a week’s worth of fake news. Not cool.

.


Not sure how anyone could confuse Salbutamol and EPO, but you may be right.

We won't because we understand the sport. I overheard a colleague say 'another cyclist caught doping' yesterday. He didn't really know who Froome was (well it's not covered in the football pages) nor did he care about the difference between doping, EPO or overuse of an inhaler (if that's what this is). doping is doping and it's cheating as far as joe public cares about.

That shouldn't matter really but sponsors, news journalists and TV editors think they associate with Joe Public so it becomes a major news story based on half truths - well putting full details out and boring people with exact details of what Salbutamol is won't sell the story now would it?

[Karla]

Half truths - those are the things Froome & co have been spreading, right?

Live by the sword/pen/needle ...

[sojournermike]

Half truths - those are the things Froome & co have been spreading, right?

Live by the sword/pen/needle ...

Or, 'The needle and damage done'

[TigaSefi]

Think Sky are done. Won’t be a team for 2018.

[Pingu]

I'm pretty ignorant about the mechanics of asthma medication. What does puffing enough to get a dose twice the limit look like?

[Samuel D]

I'm pretty ignorant about the mechanics of asthma medication. What does puffing enough to get a dose twice the limit look like?

As I’ve said a few times, it’s not the dose but the urine concentration that is over the triggering threshold in Froome’s case. We don’t know the dose he took. That is the question around which this case pivots. The Swiss anti-doping lab’s study on INRNG showed that in that particular athlete (not Froome!), 9 puffs (1 more than allowed), spaced out in groups of 3 puffs, took the urine concentration to over 3 × the threshold that demands an explanation. Froome will have to prove in a test that his urine concentration can go over 1000 ng/ml with only 8 puffs – or at least that there’s a plausible risk of that. If he doesn’t, he’ll probably be banned for a few months and lose his Vuelta. I doubt Sky would fold in that case, but it would be serious stuff.

There are non-athletes who take far more than 800 μg of salbutamol in a 12-hour period, but athletes are supposed to get a TUE for stronger stuff if they think that’s needed, or pull out of competition. Cycling TUEs are tricky business in 2017, and Froome said after the Wiggins fiasco that he prefers not to use them. That may be one factor in his having taken a larger than usual dose of salbutamol.

[sg37409]

Think Sky are done. Won’t be a team for 2018.

My prediction:  I think their results will drop off drastically now, as they race clean. Will end as a team at end of 2018

[Hot Flatus]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/copeland-most-teams-would-suspend-froome/

Not Sky though. Not with their ZTP and higher ethical standards than other teams....

 

[hillbilly]

I'm pretty ignorant about the mechanics of asthma medication. What does puffing enough to get a dose twice the limit look like?

Like this apparently:

(click to show/hide)

[Si S]

Think Sky are done. Won’t be a team for 2018.

I think they'll line up for 2018 but if the Disney deal goes through not 2019

[Exit Stage Left]

I'm quite looking forward to a break from British dominance of cycling. It brought some highpoints, the Tour in South East England in 20017, and in Yorkshire in 2014. But it has altered the cycling culture, not always to the good.

The current crop of French Tour contenders look promising, it will be fun following them in July. So bye-bye Sky, and thanks for the memories.

[Sergeant Pluck]

Think Sky are done. Won’t be a team for 2018.

My prediction:  I think their results will drop off drastically now, as they race clean. Will end as a team at end of 2018

I think that if their results drop off, it will be more due to stresses within the team. Why would stopping something that, at best, results in very small advantages lead to a drastic drop in performance?

This salbutamol business, for me, doesn’t reduce my respect for  Froome’s or Sky’s achievements in the physical or tactical sense.

What does piss me off is the lack of openness about it and the holier-than-though attitude while being fully aware that something else was going on in the team that wasn’t above board.

[andyoxon]

All CF has to demonstrate is that his legal dose regime over a number of hours resulted in a urine salbutamol conc >2ug/ml X hours later. (edit. as has been said I think)

[LEE]

Mrs Wiggins has apologised for tweeting that Froome is, and I quote, a "..slithering reptile.."

[Samuel D]

What does piss me off is […] the holier-than-though attitude

RichN95 on BikeRadar’s Pro Race forum tries to put that in perspective here.

All CF has to demonstrate is that his legal dose regime over a number of hours resulted in a urine salbutamol conc >2ug/ml X hours later. (edit. as has been said I think)

I said it a little differently, because I believe proving his urine salbutamol can go over 1 μg/ml would be sufficient. I doubt the authorities would risk pursuing a case if, for example, his pharmacokinetic test hits 1.1 μg/ml. Maybe even proving it gets close to 1 μg/ml would be enough. Froome and Sky can be presumed to have good lawyers. And because he earns so much, he would sue for big damages if he was wrongly banned. What’s the upside for the UCI to risk everything on this? They’d only do so with a waterproof case where they had good reason to suspect intent to cheat.

[rogerzilla]

His asthma must be atrocious.  I had bad asthma for years and one puff of the inhaler before going out was sufficient for a ride of any length, provided there was no break of more than an hour or two along the way.  Basically my tubes would relax after the first 20 mins of exercise, inhaler or no inhaler - the inhaler just made the first 20.minutes bearable.  If I coughed and wheezed my way through the first part I would still be ok - but I'd never keep up.

I smell a rat.

[DuncanM]

His asthma must be atrocious.  I had bad asthma for years and one puff of the inhaler before going out was sufficient for a ride of any length, provided there was no break of more than an hour or two along the way.  Basically my tubes would relax after the first 20 mins of exercise, inhaler or no inhaler - the inhaler just made the first 20.minutes bearable.  If I coughed and wheezed my way through the first part I would still be ok - but I'd never keep up.

I smell a rat.

There might well be a rat. But Froome has exercise induced asthma, has been photographed taking it during a previous race, and has been reported as coughing more than normal during his post race interviews during the Vuelta.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome-surprised-at-controversy-over-in-race-inhaler-use/

[mzjo]

Cycling is being ruined by this combination of overzealous rules, leaks of confidential process, and trial by media. It’s become nigh on impossible to navigate these booby traps while competing at the top. Essentially the rules are constantly changing. Perhaps salvation lies in amateur sport, but if so, what a shame that we cannot have nice things.

It's got nothing to do with cycling, it's all about high-level professional sport which in this case happens to be done on a bike - with (for me) overwhealmingly high sums of money involved. Not going to stop me riding my bike (or doping up on ibuprofen after 140kms in a 200, 'cos I need it!)

[mattc]

Yes, I don't think cyclists (or their coaches, sponsors, agents ... ) are any more corrupt by nature than other athletes. The world of running is currently in utter turmoil over Mo/Salazar, the russians, Gatlin, african distance runners that win from nowhere ... etc ... It all kicked off a bit later than cycling (perhaps Lance was an outlier in al this? Discuss!), but it's pretty much caught up.

Cycling and running are the two big-money games where speed/power is much more important than skill/technique; but the ball games are also rife with this stuff. remember all those blood samples from footballers and tennis players?

I suspect doping is inevitable with 21stC biochemistry, TV income and ... well, human nature. Its not worth gnashing our teeth over how our ex-idols are ruining our precious sport, dragging its reputation thru the mud.

Just sit back and enjoy the spectacle!

[rogerzilla]

One positive thing to come from all this is that Greg LeMond is finally being appreciated for how good he was - he was often seen as giving up too easily, and then totally eclipsed by Armstrong.

[sojournermike]

I think it's just taken longer for it to come out in athletics, but yes this is all elite level sport and quite a lot of non-elite also. The sophistication has increaased in leaps and bounds though.

On ball games, I suspect doping is rife. Tennis is a good example of a sport where the ability to maintain strength and form over a long match and to recover for the next is critical to success. Hard to believe that players wouldn't benefit from doping and, equally, that the federation would benefit financially from finding their top assets were doing my so.

[rogerzilla]

Darts is hard to cheat at, especially since they're allowed, nay encouraged, to drink plenty of lager (off stage these days) to loosen their throwing arm 

[Exit Stage Left]

Darts is hard to cheat at, especially since they're allowed, nay encouraged, to drink plenty of lager (off stage these days) to loosen their throwing arm 

Beta-Blockers are on the banned list for darts. https://www.wada-ama.org/en/prohibited-list/prohibited-in-particular-sports/beta-blockers

[fd3]

1 will this effect froome’s chances at spoty?
2 how will he live with himself if it does?

[mattc]

Darts is hard to cheat at, especially since they're allowed, nay encouraged, to drink plenty of lager (off stage these days) to loosen their throwing arm 

Beta-Blockers are on the banned list for darts. https://www.wada-ama.org/en/prohibited-list/prohibited-in-particular-sports/beta-blockers

Are they allowed to watch post-race Froome interviews?