Uniform in primary schools - good or bad?

[Cudzoziemiec]

My son's school is asking parents to vote for or against uniform. Apparently they've had "feedback" on the subject from parents and children. The uniform they have at the moment is just a t-shirt or polo shirt with long or short sleeves and a sweatshirt, with the school name and badge. I think there might be a stripey dress or skirt as a summer option for girls. No tie that I remember struggling with at the age of 10 or so! It's not actually compulsory - in fact I've been told that state primary schools cannot legally make uniform compulsory, though I don't have any law to quote on that - but most children do wear it.

So I thought I'd see what YACFers' views are.  I can see arguments for and against school uniform, but I won't put them here - not yet anyway - as I'm sure you're all familiar with them and I'd rather hear yours.

[Oscar's dad]

Providing the uniform is practical, hard wearing and inexpensive to buy I'm largely for uniforms.

The argument against is that peer pressure forces your kids to want to wear trendy clothes to school which could cost the parent a fortune.  Although, the kids will probably want such clothing for out of school wear so there won't be much of a saving.  Many countries don't have uniforms and they seem to do OK.

[Julian]

For for for for for for.

School mufti days were a total nightmare, because whatever my mother dressed me in (and I didn't have any idea of what was fashionable even aged eight) would be wrong: the wrong brand, the wrong colour, the wrong logo, the wrong style.  My sister (who does seem to have an innate sense of style) used to have screaming showdowns with my mum on the subject, and I think once refused to go in on a mufti day because she didn't have any clothes that would pass muster with the horrible brats she hung round with.  Doing that every school day of the year would have been horrendous.

[andyoxon]

Definitely uniform.  Primary and secondary.

I find it strange that the school is even putting it to a vote TBH.

[Oscar's dad]

... School mufti days were a total nightmare ...

Actually come to think of it, one of the many causes of arguments in our household is exactly this. 

Twinkle Toes is now at secondary school and the uniform is quite good, it even includes a warm, weatherproof and mercifully inexpensive winter coat which has to be worn.  The downside is they have to wear a blazer which is quite expensive and she's managed to knacker one already this year 

[mrcharly-YHT]

Providing the uniform is practical, hard wearing and inexpensive to buy I'm largely for uniforms.

The argument against is that peer pressure forces your kids to want to wear trendy clothes to school which could cost the parent a fortune. 

+1 to this.

The kids don't like it. I'm against arbitrary rules such as "your top shirt button must always be done up, the tie fastened in such a way and jumpers must be worn" when they are applied stupidly. Telling children they have to wear a tie and jumper in the middle of summer (but they can't wear a coat in winter!) is stupid and the children know it.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Providing the uniform is practical, hard wearing and inexpensive to buy I'm largely for uniforms.

The argument against is that peer pressure forces your kids to want to wear trendy clothes to school which could cost the parent a fortune.  Although, the kids will probably want such clothing for out of school wear so there won't be much of a saving.  Many countries don't have uniforms and they seem to do OK.

The argument I've usually heard in favour of uniform is not that it saves parents money, but that it blurs the distinctions between rich and poor kids - both for the teachers and the kids themselves. That was the reason for it being introduced a few years ago in Poland (middle and secondary schools only - from age 13 to 19) but it was dropped after, I think, two years. I guess you can still tell the rich kids from the poor kids by the state of the uniform, how they get to school and the shininess of their phone or ipod (Polish schools seem to allow kids to take these to school). Also, the extra expense of uniform was a real burden for the poorest families and some schools even got up collections to help them pay for it - but that's less applicable to Britain, where clothes are relatively far cheaper.

[Cudzoziemiec]

... School mufti days were a total nightmare ...

Actually come to think of it, one of the many causes of arguments in our household is exactly this. 

Mufti. What a funny word it is.

We usually avoid all such arguments by the simple measure of not remembering it's "mufti day" till we get to school! Not that I think it would be a problem in our case anyway - not yet at least - perhaps one of the advantages of having sons over daughters?

[andyoxon]

'Mufti day' = 'Non-school uniform' day now... 

[why1040]

I've grown up in countries where school uniforms are incredibly rare, and have therefore never worn one.  This means that to me, the mere idea of school uniform seems incredibly antiquated, militant and stuffy, and I have a really hard time seeing a positive.  Since kids need clothes for when they get home, it seems to me they just end up getting MORE clothes, rather than it saving any sort of money.

Picking up my friend's kids from school, you could still always tell who came from the better off families...rucksacks, jackets, hair accessories, shoes, state of uniform, state of hair, state of person picking up the person become the tell-tale signs and the "important" factors for the kids instead of the clothes.  They'll always find a way of making the unwary feel left out, whether that's the way your shoe-laces are tied or the pencil case you use.

[Fab Foodie]

Definitely uniform.  Primary and secondary.

I find it strange that the school is even putting it to a vote TBH.

Agreed!
When I was a Kid, we called such days Mufti days, interesting etymology (From Wiki):

The word originates from the Middle East and is Arabic: Mufti (مفتي) means an Islamic scholar who is an interpreter or expounder of Islamic law (Sharia), and is the active form of the Arabic afta, meaning "to judge". It has been used by the British army since 1816 and is thought to derive from the vaguely Eastern style dressing gowns and tasseled caps worn by off-duty officers in the early 19th century. Yule and Burnell's Hobson-Jobson: A Glossary of Colloquial Anglo-Indian Words and Phrases, and of Kindred Terms, Etymological, Historical, Geographical and Discursive (1886) notes that the word was "perhaps originally applied to the attire of dressing-gown, smoking-cap, and slippers, which was like the Oriental dress of the Mufti".[2]

[Cudzoziemiec]

'Mufti day' = 'Non-school uniform' day now... 

As it was when I was at school. I'm not sure Julian was even born then! She's young enough to get away with indulging in deliberate old-fashioned-isms! 

Edit: thanks to FF for the derivation of this word. I was aware of the 'Grand Mufti' but not the connection with this meaning.

[Fab Foodie]

As it was when I was at school. I'm not sure Julian was even born then! She's young enough to get away with indulging in deliberate old-fashioned-isms! 

Yep, late 60s/70s for me.

[clarion]

No.  Absolutely not.  Uniforms are uncomfortable, impractical, expensive and difficult to keep clean/mended/replaced etc.  Children are individuals.

[mcshroom]

Why would uniforms be any more uncomfortable, impractical, expensive and difficult to keep clean/mended/replaced than any other items of clothing?

[nicknack]

Hated uniforms when I was at school. Still do.

[andyoxon]

No.  Absolutely not.  Uniforms are uncomfortable, impractical, expensive and difficult to keep clean/mended/replaced etc.  Children are individuals.

Uncomfortable.  Why?  What sort do you have in mind?
Impractical.  Why?  multiple items, hand-me downable, reduces peer designer-label 'pressure', no 'choice' decisions.
Expensive.  What from Tescos/'Woolworths'? Also school re-sale shops.  School logos do add to cost, but other factors apply eg. re-use, re-sale.
Difficult to keep clean.  No more that anything else.  In fact e.g. Grey/dark purple is pretty good.
Individuals:  yes, not inhibited by uniforms though.

[Ham]

For uniform generally, but in primary it should be more of a uniform code that is enforceable, I paste below the code from Mrs Ham's school:


SCHOOL DRESS
BOYS
WINTER -  White shirt; White/Grey/Red Polo Shirt;
                                                 Red or Grey School Sweatshirt or Cardigan/Sweater
                                                Grey Trousers (NOT Tracksuits);
   School Red Fleece
         
  SUMMER - As above and Grey Shorts (formal)
   
GIRLS
           WINTER - White blouse; White/Grey/Red Polo Shirt; Shalwar/Kameez 
                                       (Grey Bottoms/Red or Grey top); 
                                                Red or Grey School Sweatshirt or Cardigan/Sweater
                                                Grey tunic/skirt; Grey Trousers (NOT Tracksuits);     
                                                 White, Red or Grey Socks/Tights; 
                                                 School Red Fleece
  SUMMER -   As above or Red and White checked dress.
                                                Red and White checked Skirt/Culottes with Plain White Blouse
                                                Grey Shorts (formal) 
         
Sweatshirts, fleece jumpers or jackets with hoods or logos are not
acceptable 
Footwear
Black shoes (low heels); black or white trainers.   No boots to be worn in school so please ensure your
child has a change of shoes/trainers to wear in the school building.
P. E.
A change of clothing is expected for Games and P.E.
The following items need to be kept in school in a clearly marked slipper bag:
Plain shorts-briefs/cycle shorts/leggings, T-shirt and plimsolls.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I've grown up in countries where school uniforms are incredibly rare, and have therefore never worn one.  This means that to me, the mere idea of school uniform seems incredibly antiquated, militant and stuffy, and I have a really hard time seeing a positive.  Since kids need clothes for when they get home, it seems to me they just end up getting MORE clothes, rather than it saving any sort of money.

School uniform military? That's a new idea to me (unless you actually do mean militant, which would be even more interesting!) I don't think it's military in origin or intention - after all there are plenty of other occupations or groups of people who wear uniforms. Postmen for instance. Stuffy - yes it often is, at least in its typical British version of blazer and tie. I guess it's another example of what was once ordinary clothing getting set in stone for a specific group, like judges' wigs! But they don't have that in primary schools.

[Biggsy]

Uniforms didn't completely stop fashion peer pressure in my time at school.  I pestered my mum to buy me a pair of Farah trousers.

Nevertheless, it would be worse if there was no uniform at all.

[nicknack]

It's just another example of adults making kids do stuff just because they can.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I'm drawing the following conclusions:
-ask my son when he gets home!
-it's not at all straightforward
-it's prompted a surprising amount of posts

[why1040]

I've grown up in countries where school uniforms are incredibly rare, and have therefore never worn one.  This means that to me, the mere idea of school uniform seems incredibly antiquated, militant and stuffy, and I have a really hard time seeing a positive.  Since kids need clothes for when they get home, it seems to me they just end up getting MORE clothes, rather than it saving any sort of money.

School uniform military? That's a new idea to me (unless you actually do mean militant, which would be even more interesting!) I don't think it's military in origin or intention - after all there are plenty of other occupations or groups of people who wear uniforms. Postmen for instance. Stuffy - yes it often is, at least in its typical British version of blazer and tie. I guess it's another example of what was once ordinary clothing getting set in stone for a specific group, like judges' wigs! But they don't have that in primary schools.

Hmmm, nope, you're right...sleepy brain not quite typing what I meant to say!

Regimented, was the word I was looking for!

[hbunnet]

What is a state school going to do when a child, with parental approval, refuses to wear uniform?

[clarion]

Because they have to be bought from specified suppliers, who charge a premium for crap clothes.