Uniform in primary schools - good or bad?

[Jaded]

Unfortunately some in the school community will also remember that the non-uniform day was not well
observed. Even on a non-uniform day, we still expect, as in the sixth form, that students are dressed in a
way which is ‘smart’ and ‘appropriate’ – and that clothes are not more suitable for a trip to the beach or a
party. I would like to enlist your support in making sure that microscopic shorts, for example, are not seen
on such days – otherwise, students need to understand that mufti days may be very few in future. Standards
can’t fall beneath the baseline of what is suitable for a school.

[clarion]

I own some ties.

[Panoramix]

I own some ties.

Zip ties?

[Bledlow]

As for worldwide ... I wonder how well having or not correlates with
a) whose colony they've been in the past

Not much, in my experience. The Japanese, Thai & Turkish school uniforms owe nothing to their non-existent colonial pasts, for example, though quite a lot to European models.

[Cudzoziemiec]

When we were in the Natural History Museum recently there was a huge party of Asian (not sure whether Japanese, Korean, etc, but all Asian) primary-age schoolgirls, all wearing kilts.

[Butterfly]

I own some ties.

Zip ties?

Mostly .

I also own some ties, for wearing with my riding habit. They helped cover the bit of shirt not covered by jacket and waistcoat and therefore not waterproof. They left the smallest bit of shirt possible exposed to the elements .

[Cudzoziemiec]

I don't know the psychological theories, despite having at some distant time married someone with an MSc in the subject, but certainly kids know they are not someone else by the age of 2 or 3 I'd say.

6 children and 5 years of teaching part-time - trust me on this one, there is a marked change in the years 10-12. Sometimes a little earlier, sometimes a little later.

I think a lot of disagreements on this forum actually come down to people describing the same thing in different ways - but in this case we're using the same language to talk about different things! You're talking about a feeling of differentiation from the herd, whereas I, and I think Feline too, weas talking about a simple recognition of self as not being someone else.

Or maybe it's more complicated than that...

[mrcharly-YHT]

It's more complicated than that. There are lots of stages of development and to attempt to describe them here would take many words.

[CrinklyLion]

I do have a new comment on primary school uniforms.  Speaking as a parent who is broadly in favour of 'em, and who has always sent her kids in the voluntary uniform, even going to the extra faff of finding navy blue trousers to comply with the 'red and navy' colour scheme, and who takes kids shoes quite seriously and therefore doesn't buy 10 quid supermarket shoes or even, after a bad experience, 30 quid Clark's shoes but actually goes and spends 40 to 50 quid on properly fitted ones at a really good shoe shop, it is quite galling to get notification today that from September the uniform will be compulsory.  And not the same as it currently is.  So the navy blue trousers aren't right, the badged blue sweatshirts aren't right, and the expensive properly fitting shoes aren't right. 

I don't particularly disagree with their reasons for making uniform compulsory.  I can see the logic behind their new policy.  The new uniform guidelines aren't bad.  But they explicitly state that even if you have just bought your child new shoes they will not be considered acceptable unless they are black.  Sharpies ahoy?

[clarion]

It's an opportunity for Blakeys everywhere.

[RJ]

Crinkly, that does seem OTT on the part of the school. (We've a similar attitude to FirstBorn's school's  voluntary uniform code, and would be similarly irked if the guidelines became strict rules).

[RJ]

It's an opportunity for Blakeys everywhere.

I thought you meant these 

[Cudzoziemiec]

Crinkly Lion - snap!

School sent a letter out on Monday that they're changing the uniform from next term. Instead of navy blue sweatshirt, polo shirt or t-shirt with the school logo, it's to be red or royal blue sweatshirt either from the school supplier with the new logo or just plain, and white polo shirt and grey trousers or skirt. The point apparently is for the children to look smarter but still retain choice and reduce cost. Good aims but I don't think they'll be achieved, because of the white polo shirts, which will very quickly get grubby, meaning you need more of them - so more cost and less smart (cos grubby). Also, it's going to be a uniform without uniformity - bright red, royal blue, with and without school logos, and current pupils will not be expected to change their uniforms. I hope this doesn't lead to them wearing hi-viz on trips out! (currently the teachers wear it!)

The letter they've sent also contains the sentence "I would like to urge ALL children to wear school uniform." which seems to accept they can't actually, in law or in practice, make it compulsory.

[Kim]

WTF?  It seems downright unreasonable not to grandfather in current uniform for at least an academic year, if not as long as it should continue to fit.   

[Cudzoziemiec]

who takes kids shoes quite seriously and therefore doesn't buy 10 quid supermarket shoes or even, after a bad experience, 30 quid Clark's shoes but actually goes and spends 40 to 50 quid on properly fitted ones at a really good shoe shop,

What bad experience have you had with Clarks shoes? I've always found that the shoes are decent and their great advantage is precisely that they are properly fitted - our local  Clarks shop measures kids' feet for length and width every time you go in there, and then checks both shoes on the feet, not just simply assuming that the measurement says size X so they must fit.

[Feline]

who takes kids shoes quite seriously and therefore doesn't buy 10 quid supermarket shoes or even, after a bad experience, 30 quid Clark's shoes but actually goes and spends 40 to 50 quid on properly fitted ones at a really good shoe shop,

What bad experience have you had with Clarks shoes? I've always found that the shoes are decent and their great advantage is precisely that they are properly fitted - our local  Clarks shop measures kids' feet for length and width every time you go in there, and then checks both shoes on the feet, not just simply assuming that the measurement says size X so they must fit.

All Clarks shoes are too 'high' for my daughter. She only fitted Startrite. These days she shuns proper shoes in favour of cheap ballet pump style jobs from supermarkets which only last a few weeks but cost so little it doesn't really matter. That is when she isn't pinching mine, because her feet are currently the same size. I am seriously hoping her feet grow some more or I can kiss goodbye to my decent non-SPD footwear for good!

[Cudzoziemiec]

You have non-SPD footwear? 

[Feline]

You have non-SPD footwear? 

I used to before my daughter's feet reached size 5 too 

[Cudzoziemiec]

Can't you fettle cleats into the soles of all your other shoes to stop her borrowing them? 

Or would it be more effective to develop a nasty case of athlete's foot? 

[Pancho]

who takes kids shoes quite seriously and therefore doesn't buy 10 quid supermarket shoes or even, after a bad experience, 30 quid Clark's shoes but actually goes and spends 40 to 50 quid on properly fitted ones at a really good shoe shop,

What bad experience have you had with Clarks shoes? I've always found that the shoes are decent and their great advantage is precisely that they are properly fitted - our local  Clarks shop measures kids' feet for length and width every time you go in there, and then checks both shoes on the feet, not just simply assuming that the measurement says size X so they must fit.

I'll admit to having bought shoes from both M&S and Clarks over the past few years. The Clarks ones fell to bits in weeks. OK, you're not expected to walk 15 miles to the pub and back in deck shoes but the M&S pair survived the same treatment for years.

[perpetual dan]

Random changes of uniform strike me as very unhelpful and in the first term / year getting militant about shoe colour really isn't necessary. At primary level shoes not trainers, black / grey bottoms, white tops and x colour jumpers seems smart enough to me. We've got all kinds of clothes saved from Miss Dan the Elder for Miss Dan the Younger, and there's a five year age gap there.

On Clarks, I'm not impressed with their measuring machines. Much less repeatable sizing than the old slider for length and tape for width (same day, different shops give different sizes). Of course, if your feet are the wrong shape for their idea of a foot no amount of accurate measuring will make them fit well.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I agree about the foot-scanning machine compared to the old slider and tape measure.

[David Martin]

Because they have to be bought from specified suppliers, who charge a premium for crap clothes.

Not here they don't. Primary uniforms are uniform across the district apart from colour of summer dresses. Either red check, blue check or yellow check depending on the school.
Everything else is standard. You can (but it is not compulsory) get the jumper or fleece with the school logo on but ordinary grey will do fine.  If anything school uniform is cheaper than non-uniform clothes if you don't get the stuff with the logo on. At secondary there is a dress code, but the only specialist and obligatory (for all pupils) item is the school tie.

There are some antediluvian schools who insist on custom designed clothing from a specialist supplier, but these are rapidly dying out. Most of the kids at school in Dundee are clad by the great haute couture fashion housed of Tesco and Asda.

[David Martin]

One advantage for school uniform - you can always use the tie as an impromptu (and not very effective) bike lock.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Sounds like Dundee uniforms are a bit more sensible than many others.