Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)

[quixoticgeek]

I replied to the request on twitter, but from Tim's picture i see that the bar to block one of the hangers from use hasn't always been there.

Yeah. I was trying to work that one out. What is the black bar for ?!?

J

[perpetual dan]

I replied to the request on twitter, but from Tim's picture i see that the bar to block one of the hangers from use hasn't always been there.

Yeah. I was trying to work that one out. What is the black bar for ?!?

J

Stopping anyone hanging a second bike in the inside position, i assume. It blocks the wheel hook. It didn't come off when i gave it a wiggle. Maybe there's been issues with one bike with wide bars blocking another in?
There was a second cupboard on the other side of the corridor, so two space where there's a bike sign on the door.

[Kim]

I replied to the request on twitter, but from Tim's picture i see that the bar to block one of the hangers from use hasn't always been there.

Yeah. I was trying to work that one out. What is the black bar for ?!?

On the prototype (I've yet to experience a Class 800 in the flesh) the idea was that cyclists could lock their bikes to it, and railway staff could then release them using a carriage key, avoiding bike-locked-to-the-train problems.  We pointed out that it was just in the way, and that cyclists wouldn't need to lock their bikes to anything if the booking system had the sense to reserve them the seats closest to the bike compartment.

[perpetual dan]

Ah, well that was 100% not obvious in the time it took me to get panniers and bar bag off, hang the bike up, wonder what it was, and collect my bag and head off.

I'd treated myself to 1st class (at well in advance prices) in a bid to avoid plague bearing hoardes. I wonder whether there was a similar cupboard on that carriage - on a booking the bike near the seat basis.

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[Rod Marton]

There is a bike compartment in 1st class if you are in a nine carriage train. It isn't advertised, though.

If you are in a five carriage or ten carriage train (which is just two five carriage units coupled together) the bke compartments are in carriages B and D (towards the centre). First class is in one and a half carriages at the end of the train (can't remember which end). So you can be in the same carriage as your bike, just at the other end of it.

[Lightning Phil]

Are the dimensions of those cupboards published anywhere?

[grams]

Fboab’s picture doesn’t look like an 800 to me.

[Kim]

Fboab’s picture doesn’t look like an 800 to me.

It's got a Crosscountry Voyager (Class 220 for those playing along at home) aesthetic.

[quixoticgeek]

Fboab’s picture doesn’t look like an 800 to me.

It's got a Crosscountry Voyager (Class 220 for those playing along at home) aesthetic.

So there's more than one type of UK train with silly bike cupboards?

J

[Kim]

Fboab’s picture doesn’t look like an 800 to me.

It's got a Crosscountry Voyager (Class 220 for those playing along at home) aesthetic.

So there's more than one type of UK train with silly bike cupboards?

Oh yes.  Crosscountry^[1] Voyagers have had them for ages, and unlike the 800, cupboard access is from the front, rather than the side, for extra impractical cantilevering and reduced handlebar width.

Here's a wider-angle view with a low-racer for scale^[2]:



The opening of the cupboard is approximately the width of a set of MTB bars.  It's supposed to accommodate two bikes, and if they have drop handlebars it mostly works, but it's a serious game of Sokoban (requiring other train users to stay Out Of The Way, and therefore impractical at busy times) if you're not both alighting at the same station.  Also note the space between the back of the cupboard and the bulkhead with the doors to the seating area.  This is a generous 'bulky luggage' area, from which cycles are expressly forbidden.


The reason you're hearing about dangly bike spaces now is that lines that go to That London are getting Class 800s.

Dangly bike spaces can also be found on Virgin Avanti West Coast's (220/221) Voyagers.  These are slightly less bad, because:
a) They're not enclosed in a cupboard, so the lifting is easier
b) Unlike the (390) Pendolino (which has an excellent ground-level tandem-compatible bike compartment), you don't have to track down a member of staff to gain access to the relevant compartment
c) They're consistently at the non-London end of the train, rather than halfway down from the end that doesn't have a yellow bar above the coupler

I believe there are/were some HSTs out there with dangly racks in the guard's van.  The one time I encountered one I just shrugged, engaged the parking brake and strapped my heavily-loaded bike to the wire mesh wall of the compartment.


_{[1] Who, as the name suggests, run most of England's useful long-distance services that avoid London.
[2] This photo taken on a return trip from Mordor to Wolverhampton for the express purpose of determining whether this was possible.}

[quixoticgeek]

Can I use this image as CC-BY-SA? And do you have a higher res version?

J

[andyoxon]

On a XCountry V train I saw someone, in a hurry,  trying to extract their bike from behind another in a 'double' space, with other bike in place.  Wrenching it out, metal on metal, not a pretty sight.

[Kim]

Can I use this image as CC-BY-SA? And do you have a higher res version?

Sure.  Clicky.

[quixoticgeek]

Sure.  Clicky.

Dank u wel!

J

[Kim]

On a XCountry V train I saw someone, in a hurry,  trying to extract their bike from behind another in a 'double' space, with other bike in place.  Wrenching it out, metal on metal, not a pretty sight.

The other failure mode (apart from one tragic case where I encountered a woman with two pre-teen children, all with bikes, trying to change from a cancelled service in a hurry at Mordor Central), is that some of these trains stop at Oxford.  A town notable for a high proportion of a) cycle users  b) international students, unaware of the baseline stupidity of BRITISH infrastructure.  On more than one occasion I've been crammed on some Reading/Southampton/Amazingstoke to Mordor service and observed some tiny Chinese woman climb on with her Sensible City Bike, complete with one or more of: Handlebars that won't fit in the cupboard; heavily laden (with loose objects) front basket; battery and motor; child in seat.

But the usual problem is that someone's put an unreserved bike in there, and it's the last train on a Sunday evening.

[quixoticgeek]

On a XCountry V train I saw someone, in a hurry,  trying to extract their bike from behind another in a 'double' space, with other bike in place.  Wrenching it out, metal on metal, not a pretty sight.

The other failure mode (apart from one tragic case where I encountered a woman with two pre-teen children, all with bikes, trying to change from a cancelled service in a hurry at Mordor Central), is that some of these trains stop at Oxford.  A town notable for a high proportion of a) cycle users  b) international students, unaware of the baseline stupidity of BRITISH infrastructure.  On more than one occasion I've been crammed on some Reading/Southampton/Amazingstoke to Mordor service and observed some tiny Chinese woman climb on with her Sensible City Bike, complete with one or more of: Handlebars that won't fit in the cupboard; heavily laden (with loose objects) front basket; battery and motor; child in seat.

But the usual problem is that someone's put an unreserved bike in there, and it's the last train on a Sunday evening.

Well this was my Dutch VIRM on Friday at about 9pm.



In total there were 8 bikes to take a space designed for 3. Fortunately no dangle cupboard. This was a VIRM 4, meaning there was an identical bike space at the other end of the train, but there wasn't time to run to the other end to see if it was less busy. Tho based on my experience of the rest of the day, i had no reason to suspect it wasn't also rammed.

My outward VIRM 6 was also packed, with 8 bikes in the 3 bike space. Fortunately the VIRM 6 has 3 spaces for 3 bikes, here I did have time to see the middle one was packed too... Fortunately I only went one stop on this service...

J

[Kim]

We regularly (or at least did in the Before Times) do that sort of thing after Fridays rides, but they tend to be lightly-loaded (at least when we get on) commuter trains with sensible floor-level cycle provision.

[quixoticgeek]

We regularly (or at least did in the Before Times) do that sort of thing after Fridays rides, but they tend to be lightly-loaded (at least when we get on) commuter trains with sensible floor-level cycle provision.

The thing that annoyed me most in this situation is that with a little thought we could have got them all in in a much better way that would have at least kept the walk way free, and allowed the two standing holding their bikes, to not have to hold them...

But that's too much to expect...

J

[Arellcat]

cyclists wouldn't need to lock their bikes to anything if the booking system had the sense to reserve them the seats closest to the bike compartment.

Sometimes you have to ask, sometimes well in advance, but occasionally the stars align.  Pendolino/390, not 800, but same philosophy:


Well, I don't like to blow my own trumpet by beqi, on Flickr

[L CC]

Heh. After a large number of foot journeys through first class to retrieve the bike I paid the extra for first class from Alnmouth ... And inevitably my bike was right at the other end of the train.

[rogerzilla]

I only ever paid the extra fiver (the std fare back from London after a FNRttS at 8am on a Saturday was only £10.50!) for first class if I had the Brompton, for that reason.  Only plebs ride bikes, apparently.

[Cudzoziemiec]

The opening of the cupboard is approximately the width of a set of MTB bars.  It's supposed to accommodate two bikes, and if they have drop handlebars it mostly works, but it's a serious game of Sokoban (requiring other train users to stay Out Of The Way, and therefore impractical at busy times) if you're not both alighting at the same station.  Also note the space between the back of the cupboard and the bulkhead with the doors to the seating area.  This is a generous 'bulky luggage' area, from which cycles are expressly forbidden.

But in practice usable and train staff tend to ignore this IME.

[yorkie]

For comparison, here's my old galaxy on an SNCF class Z24500 double deck Electric Multiple Unit at Lille Flanders in 2015 (heading back to Calais for the ferry). The lower deck in one end carriage has seating, wheelchair space, accessible toilet and massive bike space (with some dangly hooks), all accessed via a ramp from the doors.

The photos show my bike hanging on the left, with a bakfiets and another bike. What they don't show are the 3 bikes parked down the ramp!
When the guard came round to check tickets, not an eyelid was batted. The 2nd picture is approaching Calais after everyone else had got off.

Sadly I didn't take any photos in 2017 of the bike spaces on the Intercité Nuit to/from Briançon. Those are in what used to be an end compartment in one of the Corail couchette coaches, with the seats/beds and door ripped out and a couple of anchor points installed for locking bikes up. The capacity of the bike space is supposedly 4 bikes, but I have seen 7 bikes in there before now - fortunately that was heading towards Paris, so everyone was getting off at the same place!

[toontra]

How civilised.  It puts the 800 provision to shame.  And to think we're going to have to live with this f***up for decades.

[quixoticgeek]

Do you have these pictures in high resolution? Would you be willing to license them as CC-BY-SA?

Thanks

J