Cross Training: Rowing

[Jakob]

I've joined a regular gym with the aim to get fit(ter) and the concept 2 and barbell will be my main tools, fitted in around kendo practice which I'm now doing regularly again.
Started out this Monday with a 2k row at 8:3x. PB when I was regularly crossfitting, was around 7:30, so not too bad, considering my almost complete lack of exercise in the last 6-7 months.
I kept an even 800kcal/hr until 350 meters to go, pushed it up to 1400, but completely blew up 50 meters from the end.
Plan is shorter distances/intervals (2k below) on lifting days, with longer 5k+ rows on non-lifting days. Still very sore from Monday, so with kendo tomorrow, I wont get back until Saturday.
Best thing is that new gym is open 24/7, so should be easy to find a quiet time.
I expect a sub 8 min 2k in a couple of weeks.

[Jakob]

Or maybe not.
No power whatsoever today. 2k row, had to work to maintain even 750kcal. Pushed it up to ~850 after 1k, delayed sprint until 250meters, but maxed out at 1250cal!! 8:48.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Pruned 2 seconds off the 5000m time 18.36.7 but my ranking has dropped to 104 for 50 - 59 year olds as more stronger rowers register a time.  I'm better in those that have verified their time - 39 out of 500+.  It's different with a session after work - stress means that I go like a train and then face, compared with the morning where i start off steady and pick up pace.  With plenty of winter to go I hope to get closer to a PB.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Had a go at 10k today.  Was hard work.  At the 6.5k mark my legs seemed to lose power (which is similar to past experience - I presume fatigue setting in) and it got harder and harder to keep the 500m split below 2.00.  Overall time of 38:40 is a worse percentile against age group than the 5k two days before, which suggests this was sub par, or that the 5k hadn't worked its way out of my legs.

[Oranj]

Or imperfect pacing (given that you were dropping close to 2:00 pace in the second half yet managed an average 1:56 split overall). Always nice to leave a little in the bank for the last bit of a longer erg.

I rowed a brisk 10k last month (for the c2ctc) in 39:28, and after a bit of a break from the machine since last winter that handle sure did get heavy towards the end, although the last 2k were very slightly my fastest.

[simonp]

We did 3x12m on Thursday and my legs felt pretty heavy. Slower than 2:00 for all three. I blame the Upper Thames.

We took a GoPro out on Saturday which shows some technique issues to work on. I watched it during my 2h turbo session yesterday.

[simonp]

Wonder when someone will send me out in a (not stable) single.

have you tried it yet?  It's great!  We've just acquired a new Swift single, I took it out last week and it's really easy to sit but feels dead in the water - a bit like a floating erg.  Very different to our Janousek and aylings singles which are much less stable but feel a lot more alive.

I subbed into a reasonable quad this morning for 20k of steady state (about an hour and forty).  I let them do most of the work but am still struggling to stand or walk upstairs

Not been out in a single yet. Had another outing in stable double at the weekend - river was fairly fast, so steering was tricky at times. Feel much more comfortable in a double than previously.

Heavy rain means we can't go out tonight, sadly. River way too high and fast (in fact the club was not even safely accessible for the weekly circuits last night).

Also, had a sports massage recently. "Your quads look in good condition, must be the rowing". That plus the many hours I've spent on the turbo this year.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Or imperfect pacing (given that you were dropping close to 2:00 pace in the second half yet managed an average 1:56 split overall). Always nice to leave a little in the bank for the last bit of a longer erg.

I rowed a brisk 10k last month (for the c2ctc) in 39:28, and after a bit of a break from the machine since last winter that handle sure did get heavy towards the end, although the last 2k were very slightly my fastest.

Did a 10k starting off at 1:58 pace today.  My splits were much better: 7:52.8, 7:51.0, 7:50.1, 7:50.6, 7:46.6 (250m sprint at the end, can't help myself) so I am probably going to try a longer session during the next week and see if I can keep this going.  Not long before I set the first hour marker for the winter, methinks.

[Chris S]

We've celebrated the start of the Holiday Challenge by upgrading the ol' C2 to a PM5; the phone connection of the PM3 had died, and using the ErgData app on a phone does make the whole Logbook sync so much easier. Other useful features - Ant+/BT 4.0 HRM support, a nice sexy backlight to the display, more games (which we probably won't play).

[closetleftie]

So. If I was to try and row without using my legs, would I do myself an(other) injury? Nothing huge, 15 minutes or so 3 times a week.

Reason being, I've a broken leg and an external frame. Weight bearing not an issue (hence the load being transmitted through my legs isn't a problem) but knee & ankle mobility restricted, though not to zero.

I'd therefore be sitting with nearly straight legs throughout the stroke.

1. Useful, do you think, in terms of being reasonable CVS exercise?
2. Feasible?
3. Any problems the more experienced can foresee?

[simonp]

Warm ups in our rowing sessions are typically arms only then arms and body lean. So you can row like this. The power you can produce this way will be significantly lower and I'd want to build up slowly as your shoulders in particular will not be used to the effort.

Also note that flexibility limits how much body lean you can use. I often feel my hamstrings are a limiter. Will you be able to stretch them after a session?

[closetleftie]

Warm ups in our rowing sessions are typically arms only then arms and body lean. So you can row like this. The power you can produce this way will be significantly lower and I'd want to build up slowly as your shoulders in particular will not be used to the effort.

Also note that flexibility limits how much body lean you can use. I often feel my hamstrings are a limiter. Will you be able to stretch them after a session?

Hamstrings OK, actually. One of the pins catches the edge of my MCL so taut extension is sore at the knee, but can manage a good hamstring stretch. I'd not go heavy on the body lean anyway as I'm not experienced and/or taught well so I'd be worried about adding back injuries when I'm already biomechanically dodgy.

It'll only be to keep my fro blobbing out completely. Last time I managed to lose some weight and ended up in reasonable shape, but I paaid in terms of pin site problems. So I'd just be looking for a bit of variety.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Good luck closetleftie

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Gave a 30 minute TT a go today, as I'm being good and verifying each of my holiday challenge rows.  As it was after work, started off a bit faster than was probably wise but was able to keep going quite well to the 5000m point, which was just under the magic 8000m pace.  Paid for it after that and slowed down around the 6000m mark.  Hung in and started to ramp up the pace in the last 2 minutes.  The expected distance marker gradually crept up and up, from 7950 to 7960, 7970, 7980 and into the 7990s where it crept up by ones and stuck on 7996 with about 20 seconds to go, by which time the 500m split indicator was into the 1:37 territory and my eyeballs were on stalks.  But i'd left too much to do and holed at 4m short.  Still, it was the closest to a PB on any of my rows this season so perhaps an indicator that my training plans are heading in the right direction.

[mattc]

A very lovely chap in my cycling club got a gold in the Welsh Indoor Rowing champs - MLWT60+ category. 

[closetleftie]

Good luck closetleftie

Thanks! Saw the physio on Monday and a turbo trainer with modified left-sided pedal is actually a good option too. Not sure why another physio was hesitant during my previous injury. It actually feels OK, so may be cycling a bit more than before. Rowing could wait, I think. There's bound to be more strain than gentle cycling.

Turbo for Christmas, I think! 

[simonp]

We have to do a 1k r24 test this week.  Not sure about pacing as not done a hard 1K ever.

As my last 2k test was 7:13.1 which is just slightly better than 75th percentile for hwt in my age group, if I aimed for the same percentile I'd be aiming for around 3:20.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

We have to do a 1k r24 test this week.  Not sure about pacing as not done a hard 1K ever.

As my last 2k test was 7:13.1 which is just slightly better than 75th percentile for hwt in my age group, if I aimed for the same percentile I'd be aiming for around 3:20.

Almost go out very hard and keep going until you perish.  That sort of time is not a lot different to the women's 3k individual pursuit on the track, so I would guess a similar sort of strategy would apply?

[mike]

We have to do a 1k r24 test this week.  Not sure about pacing as not done a hard 1K ever.

As my last 2k test was 7:13.1 which is just slightly better than 75th percentile for hwt in my age group, if I aimed for the same percentile I'd be aiming for around 3:20.

Almost go out very hard and keep going until you perish.  That sort of time is not a lot different to the women's 3k individual pursuit on the track, so I would guess a similar sort of strategy would apply?

Ouch, 1k is a horrible distance.. Not far enough to properly settle in, too far to go off flat out and hope for the best.  If you're aiming for 3.15 / 3.20 I'd go off at 1.40/1.42 and lift it a bit in the last 300. 

I did 10 x 500m last night (all at 2k+2, with a 2 minute rest between each), and I'd probably rather do that session than a flat out 1k.

[simonp]

I didn't really get settled in. 3:29.2 which gives me something to work on.

The rate cap was difficult to stick to.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Got my 10k time back into the 90th percentile for weight and age group today    Set off half way between hard and steady and kept it going.  May have found my rhythm.  Going to build up to a half-marathon before Christmas.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Was going to do a  12.5k in building up to the hour, but given that I was behind on the Concept 2 Challenge of 100,000m between 24 November and 24 December decided to skip the intermediate step and go straight for the hour this morning.  Managed to keep fairly steady pace, 12 minute splits were 3129m, 3115m, 3068m, 3065m, and 3074m so I think I got the pacing about right.  It was getting hard towards the end, so will need to think about the right pace to set off for the half-marathon.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Half marathon done.  1:22:44.6.

Splits for 4300m sections were 1:56.6, 1:57.1, 1:57.7, 1:58.1, and 1:58.6, which felt like the right pacing.

[simonp]

We have to do a 1k r24 test this week.  Not sure about pacing as not done a hard 1K ever.

As my last 2k test was 7:13.1 which is just slightly better than 75th percentile for hwt in my age group, if I aimed for the same percentile I'd be aiming for around 3:20.

Almost go out very hard and keep going until you perish.  That sort of time is not a lot different to the women's 3k individual pursuit on the track, so I would guess a similar sort of strategy would apply?

Ouch, 1k is a horrible distance.. Not far enough to properly settle in, too far to go off flat out and hope for the best.  If you're aiming for 3.15 / 3.20 I'd go off at 1.40/1.42 and lift it a bit in the last 300. 

I did 10 x 500m last night (all at 2k+2, with a 2 minute rest between each), and I'd probably rather do that session than a flat out 1k.

2k + 2 is quite hard going though.

Had a 1:1 with the coach after our water session. They seem to think 1k r24 is a reasonable predictor of 2K free-rate (i.e. just double it). That would suggest I /should/ be able to do 6:58. TBF, when I did my last 2K (7:13.1) I was a bit off peak fitness, so maybe it could be done. Just once. There's only one bloke in the Masters squad who can go under 7:00 (I'm in the Development squad). As it happens, I am not aware of anyone in the Dev squad beating my time. The one guy who I was sure would beat me cocked it up and also did 3:29. He should have been capable of 3:20, maybe less, he's done sub 6:40 2K.

On the technical side, he thinks I'm too aggressive round the finish, so I tend to wash out, and need to work on that. If I can improve that and get to sub 7 then I'll be much more useful.

On our water session I caught a massive crab, which flattened me. First time I've ever been thrown on my back, and I can't remember the last time I caught a crab. And it was caught on video. 

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Improved the hour t0 15587m this morning.  I think doing the 1/2 marathon at the weekend helped train the endurance as I didn't start to fade after 40 minutes.  Splits were 3121, 3117, 3099, 3117, 3134 - was able to pick up speed with 5 minutes to go.