Yes, I have suggested that....many times. She's a grin and bear it while you can sort of person. We lowered the saddle because I have a tendency to set saddles too high, and if anything it was a touch too high, as, growing up with me, that's how she had got used to riding it. She doesn't use cleats, she's a toeclips girl like her old mum, and never felt confident with cleats anyway (she has since been diagnosed as dyspraxic, which explains a lot of things). She has always had a very strange posture... Her feet turn outwards quite markedly when she walks and she is able, quite easily, when sitting cross legged, to have both legs and knees completely touching the floor. Which is very hard if not impossible for most people, unless you have trained yourself to do it. I don't know if that has anything to do with the knee problem, though. Back to nagging her to see an expert I think. I just thought, as it only causes her pain when cycling, it had to be bike related. But maybe not.