Author Topic: Advice on knee problem  (Read 1577 times)

jane

  • Mad pie-hating female
Advice on knee problem
« on: 14 October, 2013, 09:16:59 am »
This isn't me.. it's my daughter and I have told her she should get it checked out by a doctor or someone who knows about such things, but she's no better at listening to me now she's a twentysomething than she was as a teenager.  She's fit, healthy, climbs and hill walks a lot and has no problem with the knee doing those activities.  But even a short cycle ride seems to bring on knee pain and swelling. Only in the right one.  Last week we rode ten miles to climb a hill and by the time we got there, her knee was already slightly  swollen and a bit painful.... yet the hill, an easy Munro but over 2000 feet of very steep up and down, caused her no problems whatsoever.  I did some adjustments to her bike, moving her gear and brake levers up and saddle forward as she seemed to be a bit overstretching a bit.  This seemed to help ease some soreness in the neck and shoulders, but did nothing to help the knee... Saddle height looked  fine to me, although we did try lowering it a touch. No difference.  Any ideas of other things it could be to do with the bike, before I get really stroppy with her to get her to check it out properly.

Re: Advice on knee problem
« Reply #1 on: 14 October, 2013, 09:22:55 am »
Higher saddle for knee problems.

Is she using cleats? misaligned cleats would cause this.

<i>Marmite slave</i>

AAO

Re: Advice on knee problem
« Reply #2 on: 14 October, 2013, 09:47:07 am »
Sounds like it could possibly be something internal in the knee that is irritated by the continuous action of pedalling. Something rubbing? A knee version of carpal tunnel perhaps? Pure speculation. If it was me, I'd be straight along to the Doctor.

Re: Advice on knee problem
« Reply #3 on: 14 October, 2013, 10:43:09 am »
Doctor? I'd go to a physiotherapist first as they seem to have more idea about the mechanics of the knee.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Advice on knee problem
« Reply #4 on: 14 October, 2013, 11:21:15 am »
As some docs would say:
IDK 
Wonderful ambiguous TLA that.

I Don't Know   or
Internal Derangement of the Knee

You decide!

I'd suggest a physic or medic with an interest in sport.

jane

  • Mad pie-hating female
Re: Advice on knee problem
« Reply #5 on: 14 October, 2013, 12:24:06 pm »
Yes, I have suggested that....many times.  She's a grin and bear it while you can sort of person.  We lowered the saddle because I have a tendency to set saddles too high, and if anything it was a touch too high, as, growing up with me, that's how she had got used to riding it.  She doesn't use cleats, she's a toeclips girl like her old mum, and never felt confident with cleats anyway (she has since been diagnosed as dyspraxic, which explains a lot of things).  She has always had a very strange posture... Her feet turn outwards quite markedly when she walks and she is able, quite easily, when sitting cross legged, to have both legs and knees completely touching the floor.  Which is very hard if not impossible for most people, unless you have trained yourself to do it.  I don't know if that has anything to do with the knee problem, though.  Back to nagging her to see an expert I think.  I just thought, as it only causes her pain when cycling, it had to be bike related.  But maybe not.

Kim

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Re: Advice on knee problem
« Reply #6 on: 14 October, 2013, 01:22:37 pm »
Dyspraxia rings alarm bells for me.  A dyspraxic friend of mine (who's never really been confident at cycling) has the world's oddest pedalling technique - feet out, knees in, legs twisting about all over the place..... until you put them on the back of a tandem, at which point they don't have to worry about all that keeping the bike going in the right direction stuff, and their pedalling becomes much more natural looking (with a substantial increase in power output).

So yeah, the actual swelling sounds like a sideways-forces-on-the-knee problem.  Could be something that needs physiotherapy, could be something that needs clever bike fit, probably isn't something wrong with the knee joint itself.  My right knee (which was injured in a car crash as a child) tends to suffer this sort of thing if I use flat pedals.  Cleats keep it pointing in the right direction, but the alignment has to be spot on (and different length legs complicate matters).


Re: Advice on knee problem
« Reply #7 on: 14 October, 2013, 01:57:28 pm »
Toe clips and straps might not be helping. They tend to make feet face straight forward - and if she normally walks 'duck foot' then that will place considerable strain on her knee.

I'd take the straps off for a bit and see if things calm down.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Advice on knee problem
« Reply #8 on: 14 October, 2013, 02:02:37 pm »
Doctor? I'd go to a physiotherapist first as they seem to have more idea about the mechanics of the knee.
+1

Wot Helly sed.
"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Advice on knee problem
« Reply #9 on: 14 October, 2013, 02:05:51 pm »
This sounds like hyperelasticity to me. I think a physio would help.

Re: Advice on knee problem
« Reply #10 on: 14 October, 2013, 04:00:11 pm »
crank length can sometimes be a problem, many off the shelf machines are sold with cranks that are too long for their intended rider height,  if she is running 170mm cranks or longer it might be worth swapping out for shorter.
are we nearly there yet?

AAO

Re: Advice on knee problem
« Reply #11 on: 14 October, 2013, 08:29:59 pm »
Doctor?

First port of call :thumbsup: Doctor then refers the person to a physiotherapist or suggests some other approach.
I am puzzled by the underlying assumption that crops up hereabouts from time to time that Doctors are crap. Mine aren't and in my experience they almost always make the correct call.

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: Advice on knee problem
« Reply #12 on: 14 October, 2013, 08:50:59 pm »
Ditto to the dyspraxia and alarm bells.  I see a number of dyspraxic students with non specific musculo-skeletal issues which I suspect (IANAD and IANAP) are related to poor muscle tone and postural issues...

The friend Kim references has poor muscle tone which combined with poor proprioception (sense of self in space) makes improvement very slow and difficult.  I know dyspraxics who have needed physio but the physio NEEDS to know they have dyspraxia cos you're talking 2-10x the recovery time and might need to work on a much longer term slower improvements basis.

Biggsy

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Re: Advice on knee problem
« Reply #13 on: 14 October, 2013, 10:31:12 pm »
Duck-footedness is so common that we might as well call it normal.  I'm normal, too. :)  Toe clips will be ok if not too small, but the straps mustn't be tight.  The pedals and shoes shouldn't be too grippy either.  The feet need to be able to swivel to their natural positions.

Saddle too high as well as too low can cause knee pain.  Just a few mm of adjustment in any direction can have a major effect.

Is Jane Junior using gears that are a bit on the high side?
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Re: Advice on knee problem
« Reply #14 on: 15 October, 2013, 02:32:45 am »
Duck-footedness is so common that we might as well call it normal.  I'm normal, too. :)  Toe clips will be ok if not too small, but the straps mustn't be tight.  The pedals and shoes shouldn't be too grippy either.  The feet need to be able to swivel to their natural positions.

Saddle too high as well as too low can cause knee pain.  Just a few mm of adjustment in any direction can have a major effect.

Is Jane Junior using gears that are a bit on the high side?
agree with above, if her RPM under 80 or so as an average use lower gear
are we nearly there yet?

jane

  • Mad pie-hating female
Re: Advice on knee problem
« Reply #15 on: 15 October, 2013, 05:35:02 pm »
Thank you all... She doesn't tend to use gears that are too high.  I think I really have to push her to see somebody qualified, don't I?  Thanks again, for helping me think through all the possibilities.