driving tests and licenses

[Phil]

Being a motorbike instructor must be a nervewracking job in the Netherlands!

[TimO]

The Dutch test (from maybe 25 years ago) was quite tough - three part practical, urban, extar-urban, and finally motorway.  And motorcyclists had to ride with an instructor on the pillion at all times until the test was passed, similarly all lessons were with an instructor, no "qualified driver" option as passenger as in UK.

Interesting, that definitely sounds more stringent than the UK, and I doubt it's got any easier since then.

It does strike me as a bit silly that I'm not allowed on a Motorway at all as a Learner, but the moment I pass the test I'm deemed to be competent at that particular skill.  Whilst driving on a Motorway isn't dramatically different from busy dual carriage roads, there are definitely some elements which could be taught prior to trying things out.

[mrcharly-YHT]

nah, I'm not buying it. The population density isn't that much different to Australia. Are you suggesting that they drive 50miles then catch a bus that travels a similar distance?  Somehow I'm doubting that. People don't do that in the outback in Australia, there's no reason to do it in the US.

Why don't you buy it - remote rances have dirt roads to where buses pick up. Maybe in the australian bush they use distance learning?

I'm not buying it because I say that the situation isn't that different to Australia, and teenagers driving to school is not seen as necessary in Australia.  You are correct about the distance learning, but that is mostly for students who live 100's of miles from schools. I went to school with people who lived 40-45miles away and travelled in on my school bus. I only lived about 30miles away.

A driving age of under 15 is just because of American car culture; they use cars to travel 100m down the road, so see cars as the solution to all transport issues.

[interzen]

It does strike me as a bit silly that I'm not allowed on a Motorway at all as a Learner, but the moment I pass the test I'm deemed to be competent at that particular skill.  Whilst driving on a Motorway isn't dramatically different from busy dual carriage roads, there are definitely some elements which could be taught prior to trying things out.

Wasn't there a drive (sic) a while ago to actually incorporate motorway driving into driving instruction and practical tests? Not sure that anything came of it, mind, although there is a motorway driving module in the 'Pass Plus' course.

Of course, it's kind of a moot point if you don't have a motorway-standard road within striking distance (fortunately, we have - the A64)

[TimO]

Of course, it's kind of a moot point if you don't have a motorway-standard road within striking distance (fortunately, we have - the A64)

The furthest I've ever lived from a Motorway is about fifteen miles, and that was when I was a student, and certainly couldn't have afforded to have driven a car.  Mostly I've been within about five miles of a Motorway.

I would have thought the majority of the UK population lived near enough to a Motorway, or was likely to need one from time to time, since it's the only way to really travel a significant distance through the UK.

I remember as a small child, prior to some of the UK Motorway infrastructure being completed, and it took a lot longer, and involved a lot more traffic queues, when the route to travel a longer distance only involved A-roads at best.

[Greenbank]

I would have thought the majority of the UK population lived near enough to a Motorway, or was likely to need one from time to time, since it's the only way to really travel a significant distance through the UK.

Have a look at a zoomed out map of the UK. There are plenty of places more than 50 miles from a motorway.

No motorways in Cornwall. Nearest to East Anglia is West and South of Cambridge. Only one real motorway in Wales (lets not count the A48(M) or M48). Go North from Newcastle. None North of Perth.

Journeys of significant distance are one thing, but whilst learning it'd be an expensive 3 hour driving lesson, one hour to get to a motorway, 30 mins driving one way along it, 30 mins driving back, an hour to get back home.

[robgul]

US driving tests vary by state, but many of them seem to be ludicrously easy, & you can qualify in an automatic but are still allowed to drive a manual.

Given that over 90% of the cars in the US have had automatics for many years, it might be hard to find:

1) A car with manual transmission to take the test in

2) Someone to teach you to use a manual transmission

3) An examiner who knows how to use a manual transmission

Missed the point.  In Japan, 90% of cars are automatic, & have been for many years - but if you take the test in an automatic, you're not qualified to drive a manual.

The problem isn't people taking their tests in automatics (you can do that here, & some people do), but that you are then qualified to drive a manual. That's plain wrong.

You want to drive an automatic forever? Take the test in one. You want to drive a manual? Then take the test in that.

Assuming you are talking about "here" being the UK - then if you pass your test in an automatic car you are NOT allowed to drive a manual gearbox car, without retaking your test.

It used to be the case that you could but that changed in about 1969 or 70 ... I passed my test way back in 1965, driving a Rover 3 litre auto .. bought a manual gearbox Mini the following day and drove it out of the showroom ... and very nearly ran over the bloke walking in front with the red flag 

I have to say there's some value in having a couple of early lessons in an automatic car, simply that it's one less dimension to cope with - get the hang of steering etc before having to change any gears.

Rob

[TimO]

Journeys of significant distance are one thing, but whilst learning it'd be an expensive 3 hour driving lesson, one hour to get to a motorway, 30 mins driving one way along it, 30 mins driving back, an hour to get back home.

Ah fair point, but it's a skill with nevertheless would be useful to teach.  I guess it could be enforced in areas where there was a possibility of training in it, or using a dual carriageway for something similar.  There are I believe areas of the UK where it's impossible to do a hill start, since there aren't any hills of any significance, so it's simply not done.

[Greenbank]

I'm not buying it because I say that the situation isn't that different to Australia, and teenagers driving to school is not seen as necessary in Australia.  You are correct about the distance learning, but that is mostly for students who live 100's of miles from schools. I went to school with people who lived 40-45miles away and travelled in on my school bus. I only lived about 30miles away.

The point is that the bus can't drive to all of the individual farmsteads to pick up the students. A bus would only be able to visit a small number of farmsteads in an hour due to the unpaved roads. You'd need hundreds of buses all picking up a small number of students.

Look at an area on Google Maps like this

Note scale in the bottom left hand corner. The yellow roads are paved. Most of the grey roads are unpaved. So that's hundreds of farmsteads inside this ~20 mile by 20 mile square of unpaved roads.

It's not a bunch of small communities dotted around the place so a bus can drive between them all, it's individual farmsteads spread out over a huge area.

[geraldc]

I took a restricted motorcycle test, ie I took my test on a 125 cc, so for 2 years was limited to riding bikes of 33bhp.  After 2 years I could ride any bike I wanted, regardless of whether or not I had ridden in those 2 years.

[mark]

I have to say there's some value in having a couple of early lessons in an automatic car, simply that it's one less dimension to cope with - get the hang of steering etc before having to change any gears.

Rob

My first driving experience consisted of learning to gradually engage the clutch in an empty parking lot, and getting a feel for steering, brakes, etc., in 1st gear before I was allowed/taught to shift into 2nd. An advantage to this is that there was a distinct limit to how fast I could go before the screaming of the engine told me it was time to lift my foot off the accelerator.

[clarion]

I took an automatic driving test and passed first time.

A bit later, I took a manual test and passed.

I think it was helpful to be able to do two tests, and to learn all the road positioning, observation and handling stuff without having to worry about gears (much).

[mrcharly-YHT]

It's no different from rural Australia, GB, honest.

I spent 45minutes on the bus, some of the students were on the bus for over an hour. I was in a relatively highly-populated area, compared to the wheatbelt.

[interzen]

My first driving experience consisted of learning to gradually engage the clutch in an empty parking lot, and getting a feel for steering, brakes, etc., in 1st gear before I was allowed/taught to shift into 2nd. An advantage to this is that there was a distinct limit to how fast I could go before the screaming of the engine told me it was time to lift my foot off the accelerator.

Ditto - I think I spent my first three driving lessons going round in circles in the cinema car park at Clifton Moor before being let loose on a Real Road[tm], and even then it was just round quiet housing estates for a good while.

I also learnt that 'gently press the accelerator pedal' does *not* mean mash your foot down on the throttle 

[clarion]

My first driving lesson started on a quiet straight rural road just outside derby.  Within the first thirty seconds, a pheasant blasted through the hedge directly in front.

The toe box for the pedals in the car wasn't big enough for my feet, so my toes kept getting caught on the top and I couldn't move the pedals properly.

By the end of the lesson, the stupid instructor took me onto the bloody A38!

And he wasn't even Julie Greaves' dad; it was his greasy, smelly partner.

[Cyclops]

I have some friends who passed their tests in the more rural parts of Scotland without ever having driven on roundabouts or negotiated traffic lights as there weren't any within 50 miles.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I have some friends who passed their tests in the more rural parts of Scotland without ever having driven on roundabouts or negotiated traffic lights as there weren't any within 50 miles.

Which probably shows the value of the theory section, in that they at least had to learn about these alien devices even if they never encountered them. I think they do a video test now, so can presumably simulate all sorts of situations which don't actually occur in a reasonable distance.

[Mr Larrington]

US driving tests vary by state, but many of them seem to be ludicrously easy, & you can qualify in an automatic but are still allowed to drive a manual.

I have a Several of Leftpondian acquaintances who flatly refuse to believe that anyone would learn to drive with a "stick" from the word Go.

[rafletcher]

Journeys of significant distance are one thing, but whilst learning it'd be an expensive 3 hour driving lesson, one hour to get to a motorway, 30 mins driving one way along it, 30 mins driving back, an hour to get back home.

Maybe it would be, but that's the price you pay for the priviledge of driving a car. And to answer an earlier point, whilst a learner can't drive on a motorway, they CAN on A roads of motorway standard - such as A48(M) and A1(M).

I used the term "motorway" in my original post - in actual fact it was / is more likely to be "dual carriageways with national limit"  and of those there are plenty in the UK.

[mark]

US driving tests vary by state, but many of them seem to be ludicrously easy, & you can qualify in an automatic but are still allowed to drive a manual.

I have a Several of Leftpondian acquaintances who flatly refuse to believe that anyone would learn to drive with a "stick" from the word Go.

This leftpondian learned on a "stick", and the people who taught me (parents) now insist that it is no longer possible (increased traffic, etc.) to teach a new driver with a manual transmission from the word Go.

[Greenbank]

And to answer an earlier point, whilst a learner can't drive on a motorway, they CAN on A roads of motorway standard - such as A48(M) and A1(M).

No they can't, the (M) makes it a motorway, as do the signs at the start of the motorway sections.

Can't find an official reference but this should be good enough:
                Weeping learner driver left on slip road  -
                    News - The Independent

[rogerzilla]

I have some friends who passed their tests in the more rural parts of Scotland without ever having driven on roundabouts or negotiated traffic lights as there weren't any within 50 miles.

We had a choice of Newbury or Basingrad to take our test.  Everyone chose Basingrad, because there were hardly any traffic lights and not a zebra crossing to be found in the place.   You had to be good at roundabouts though.

[1gear]

Passing a theory test and practical test allows someone to drive a vehicle under 3.5tonnes, max of 7 seats and can only tow a trailor of 750kgs. That's it. No probationary period like in Newzeland but you can only get 6 points in your first 2 years. So you can in theory lose your licence pretty quick.
You can pass your driving test at 18 then go and do your C then C+E. At 18. Not that a company will take you on due to insurances, but you could do it without having to do the young drivers scheme.

[Valiant]

I've just been brought a bank of 5 lessons for my bday. I have driven before but those were in my joyriding days. The instructor said it'd be harder to unlearn bad habits that starting from scratch

[rafletcher]

And to answer an earlier point, whilst a learner can't drive on a motorway, they CAN on A roads of motorway standard - such as A48(M) and A1(M).

No they can't, the (M) makes it a motorway, as do the signs at the start of the motorway sections.

Can't find an official reference but this should be good enough:
                Weeping learner driver left on slip road  -
                    News - The Independent

Obvioulsy a change I didn't recall