Author Topic: Help with mould/ damp in the house  (Read 3170 times)

velosam

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Help with mould/ damp in the house
« on: 04 October, 2015, 03:55:48 pm »
I had a similar problem last night but thought I had sorted it.
Unfortunately I had not.

I have 2 issues

1. Is the floorboards lifting in the hallway (I think I have sorted this by extending the external rainwater drain on that side of the house into the flower bed

2. This is the more irritating. There is a strong smell of damp in the kitchen and the lounge (they are next to each other). Also in that corner is the sink and taps etc.

On the outside wall there is the main waste pipe.

In that corner in both rooms there is strong smell of damp, in addition to which the back of the sofa is getting mould.

I cant see any leaks on the waste pipe.

There are no leaks as far as I can tell in the kitchen sink area.  Also the smell and damp only occurs when it rains.  However the water bottles in the cupboard (with the tops on) also end up smelling of damp, but no actual damp, if you see what I mean.

I am struggling to work out what to do.

There are no air bricks in either room. I am not really keen on doing the airbricks as the outside wall is painted and its going to look crap.

Any suggestions please

thanks



Mrs Pingu

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Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #1 on: 04 October, 2015, 04:57:45 pm »
How old is your property? What are the walls made of?
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #2 on: 04 October, 2015, 05:03:36 pm »
And the floors?   Suspended wood with a void beneath for instance?

velosam

  • '.....you used to be an apple on a stick.'
Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #3 on: 04 October, 2015, 05:29:11 pm »
1930s

Walls are just brick I think.

The floor in the lounge I think is concrete, kitchen is laminate, not sure about suspension.


Tigerrr

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Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #4 on: 04 October, 2015, 05:47:48 pm »
Sounds like you have rising damp. Could well be related to the down pipe drain which might leak underground.
The other alternative re sofa is condensation - warm moist air form sofa coming into contact with cold exterior wall.
Old houses with those solid concrete floors (like ours) often had very poor damp proofing, and were knot built with central heating in mind.
See if moving sofa out a bit reduces the damp there - if it does then that is what may be required.
You can get a cheap damp meter to check for rising damp in the wall plater although it is usually fairly obvious.
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hellymedic

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Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #5 on: 04 October, 2015, 05:53:12 pm »
Your damp proof course might have failed/been bridged/be non-existent.

I know bog-all about these things and suggest you find someone who has some knowledge.

tiermat

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Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #6 on: 04 October, 2015, 05:55:37 pm »
Sounds like standard construction for a pre-WWII council house. The fix isn't easy, nor cheap. Dig out the floors and re-lay them.

The floor may be stopping the water, but it creeps up the walls.
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Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #7 on: 04 October, 2015, 06:34:20 pm »
Rising damp is actually quite rare and is often misdiagnosed. Failed dpc's and or membranes are also rare. It is much more probable that you either you have a leak or water ingress somewhere, could be anything from a broken drain to a perforated or weeping water pipe. Higher levels of humidity in the dwelling will condense on cold surfaces particularly if there is a lack of ventilation and/or heating. Do you have any lead pipework remaining? Where is your incoming water main? Do you have a broken rainwater pipe or guttering cascading water onto the house walls?

If you have central heating are the circs buried in a floor screed?

Any old fireplace openings/flues should be vented via air bricks/vents as you can have condensation occuring within the chimney otherwise.

I am intruiged by the RWP being extended to the 'flower bed'. If you have a separate foul and surface water drainage system  this should lead to a properly designed soakaway at least five metres from the property (if you have five metres that is).  Floorboards being wet enough to 'lift' is worrying and suggests high levels of moisture.

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Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #8 on: 04 October, 2015, 06:57:29 pm »
This is a sticking plaster solution but at £120 a reasonably priced one and that is a dehumidifier set to run constantly into a 5 gallon drum.

PH
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Mrs Pingu

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Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #9 on: 04 October, 2015, 07:30:03 pm »
Lots of useful information about damp and old buildings here.
http://www.heritage-house.org

I feel your pain - only last week I paid for an independent old building and damp specialist to survey our flat. Unfortunately he didn't come up with an a-ha diagnosis but he did point out lots of small things that might all be contributing to my problem (chimney flues, debris bridging, crap slater work, etc)
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

velosam

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Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #10 on: 04 October, 2015, 09:14:47 pm »
Cheers all.

Just to be clear on the floorboards lifting its the laminate in the hallway.

I have got the sticking plaster solution which is the dehumifier which fills up every night.

All the rainwater drains seem to be fixed so I am at a loss.

I am not sure what 'circs' are, but the boiler is in the loft and all the pipes are hidden by the flooring.

TBH I have never lifted the carpet in the lounge.

Although the house is detached, there is no 5metres of space where the waste or the rainwater drains go into, so I imagine the soakaway is quite close.

Oddly enough on the side of the house it happens on, is where there is the biggest amount of space between me and the neighbours.

The upstairs clothes cupboards also have a damp smell at times but again the rainwater drains seem fine.

I did have a builder around last year and his suggestions were

1. keep the windows a tad open
2. fit some airbricks if the first option does not work.

The rest of the family are not enthusiastic about having the windows slightly open.

Not sure if this is relevant but the whole house is on clay and all 4 sides have either a brick drive, patio or concrete laid down, so there is no 'ground' to act as a soakaway.

Bloody mould has been in the bain of my life in every house (only 2) that I have ever had.


Mrs Pingu

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Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #11 on: 04 October, 2015, 09:35:40 pm »
Are the upstairs clothes cupboards located directly above the problem area in the kitchen/lounge?
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

velosam

  • '.....you used to be an apple on a stick.'
Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #12 on: 04 October, 2015, 09:38:56 pm »
Are the upstairs clothes cupboards located directly above the problem area in the kitchen/lounge?

No but the same wall side if that makes sense and right at the other end of the house.

David Martin

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Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #13 on: 04 October, 2015, 10:38:32 pm »
Is it a solid wall or two skin? Might be worth silicone treating the outside wall to reduce water soaking in when it rains. That can make a big difference.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #14 on: 04 October, 2015, 10:45:03 pm »
For comfort,  the relative humidity in the property should be in the range between 25 and 60 degrees. Anything over this and particularly so over 70% will produce a 'wet' environment causing condensation issues. Monitors can be purchased relatively cheaply. Might be worth while you obtaining one and see what sort of numbers pop up? e.g.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B015F516T8?psc=1
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Mrs Pingu

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Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #15 on: 04 October, 2015, 10:47:42 pm »
Is it a solid wall or two skin? Might be worth silicone treating the outside wall to reduce water soaking in when it rains. That can make a big difference.

My damp surveyor would disagree. It acts both ways and doesn't allow the wall to dry out, apparently. Gypsum plaster on the inside is also frowned upon because it doesn't breathe. Lime is the thing.
I spent Thursday night pulling down gyproc panels (which were to varying degrees saturated with water, and mouldy) in our loft, and thence sweeping up all the mortar debris which had fallen out of the stone wall and created a nice moist bridge between the outer wall and the plaster.
Have still to decide what I'm doing in the lounge but at least I will be able to monitor what's happening in the loft now I can se the outer wall
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #16 on: 04 October, 2015, 10:51:17 pm »
For comfort,  the relative humidity in the property should be in the range between 25 and 60 degrees. Anything over this and particularly so over 70% will produce a 'wet' environment causing condensation issues. Monitors can be purchased relatively cheaply. Might be worth while you obtaining one and see what sort of numbers pop up?

The RH next to my stained lounge wall was over 70% when the surveyor measured it. He gave me a cheap Chinese hygrometer which reads about 70% until I open a door and a window (we have no trickle vents and apparently the open flue isn't doing much to help). There's probably debris bridging behind my wall but where the water is coming in is undefined, possibly downstairs neighbours flue.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #17 on: 04 October, 2015, 10:52:51 pm »
I also would not recommend application of silicone. Lots of examples of spalled brickwork due to frost damage arising from previous generations of silicone treatment.
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David Martin

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Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #18 on: 04 October, 2015, 10:53:08 pm »
Is it a solid wall or two skin? Might be worth silicone treating the outside wall to reduce water soaking in when it rains. That can make a big difference.

My damp surveyor would disagree. It acts both ways and doesn't allow the wall to dry out, apparently. Gypsum plaster on the inside is also frowned upon because it doesn't breathe. Lime is the thing.
I spent Thursday night pulling down gyproc panels (which were to varying degrees saturated with water, and mouldy) in our loft, and thence sweeping up all the mortar debris which had fallen out of the stone wall and created a nice moist bridge between the outer wall and the plaster.
Have still to decide what I'm doing in the lounge but at least I will be able to monitor what's happening in the loft now I can se the outer wall

Depends then on your internal ventilation.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #19 on: 04 October, 2015, 10:58:46 pm »
There are powered positive ventilation systems out there, that can provide a hidden exhaust for saturated air (some also having heat recovery)  and which cost very little to run but do, of course, have an up front capital cost.

Incidentally both your bathroom and kitchen should ideally have extract fans.
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Wombat

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Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #20 on: 05 October, 2015, 08:25:30 am »
Better than applying silicone, which as Canardly so correctly says can result in spalled brickwork if moisture does get into the brick and freezes, is a newer product called Stormdry, which is slopped onto the wall and soaks in far more than the silicone or Thompson's water seal sort of stuff (which isn't silicone, apparently).  I doubt there is one single one shot solution, but moniotring humidity levels is a vital first step, and I'd recommend you get a couple of such devices.  I use Omega dataloggers, which cost £50 a shot, to monitor temp and humidity in buildings, which then plug into a USB port and give you a nice graph af temp, humidiy and dew point over a period of up to a month or two.

Yes, you need to make sure that all outside paving is well below damp course level, confirm that you actually have a damp course!, check every last possible source of pipe leakage, including such tricks as puttting drain testing dye into any waste pipework and seeing if it shows anywhere, keeping the place as well ventilated as you can, reducing generation of moisture as much as you can, wiping up any condensation on a daily (at least) basis. 
Its a tough old job, but rising damp is actually quite rare, as Canardly says.  I've been doing building defect diagnosis for around 40 years, and its rarely all that straightforward, and does involve a bit of science.
Wombat

Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #21 on: 05 October, 2015, 08:34:24 am »
sounds like ventilation is a major part of your issue. What ventilation do you have in your kitchen and bathroom?
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Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #22 on: 05 October, 2015, 08:42:57 am »
We have a well ventilated house with no damp. A bit of condensation on the windows in some weather conditions. We have a shower room that was built in one of the bedrooms with no windows. When the extractor fan failed it only took a week for the damp to start on the walls in their and bits of mold to appear. proper ventilation makes a huge difference to damp.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Andrew

Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #23 on: 05 October, 2015, 08:43:27 am »
I feel your discomfort - well, I feel my own really but I do feel it.

Our old French thick stone walled property has (I'd wager) no meaningful dpc. The lounge is damp and it gets to my bones in winter. The kitchen, on the other hand, where we have dug out the floor and relaid it and installed underfloor heating is bliss in comparison - and takes sod all heating.

I've yet to decide what to do about the lounge. Digging up the floor is obviously the complete way to go but it will be expensive and messy. I'm not sure anything else is other than wasted effort though.

These old stone properties are lovely and cool in the summer, and beautiful to look at but, my lord, are they difficult to keep warm and dry! Seriously, never again.... not in my old age anyway!

Re: Help with mould/ damp in the house
« Reply #24 on: 05 October, 2015, 10:55:17 am »
Get a damp surveyor to a free survey, I've used companies called Kenwood and Tapco in the past.

If it's condensation, they will look if the walls affected by damp are cooler than the other walls, it's something you can check yourself with one of those infra red themometers.

However in the meantime, cover all pots and pans when cooking, don't dry things in the house, try and get a breeze moving through the house.

It can be a bugger to diagnose.