Rugby and brain damage

[Wowbagger]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/jun/22/rugby-card-happy-approach-to-concussion-just-is-not-working

A thought-provoking article.

What will never mitigate brain injury, though, or even just the degree to which rugby is a laughing stock in the eyes of so many in the world, is to send innocent players from the field for incidents they have no hope of avoiding. That is not looking after them; it is betraying them. That is rugby blaming the players for the way rugby is.

Is that final paragraph not simply saying that if we don't want players to suffer brain injuries then they ought not play rugby?

[DuncanM]

Yes.  I think the writer is essentially complaining about players being sent off for doing dangerous things because it messes up the game, and anyway, they do stuff that's nearly as dangerous all the time.

Fundamentally, rugby and American football (and presumably Gaelic and Aussie rules) all carry increased brain injury risk, and the sporting bodies need to own that risk somehow. They are both modifying the game slightly to reduce the chances of concussion and try to mitigate the risk, but they are both trapped by the way that the game involves sub-concussive head impact on a regular basis and puts the participants at risk of concussion every single play.
I played rugbi in school and American football as a student and young man. I'm not sure I could recommend that to anyone, and I don't know if I would do the same if I were 18 again today.

Clearly the risk is much greater in the combat sports - I don't know if they just accept the risk and then ignore it?

[mrcharly-YHT]

Not sure that Aussie rules would have increased risk of brain damage, because:

No heading ball
No high tackles (must be above knees and below shoulders), plus the tacklee must pass the ball or give the tackler a free kick. This incentivizes a 'wrap up' tackle rather than a hit.

[Wowbagger]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/oct/04/rugby-urged-to-cut-matches-as-study-finds-players-risk-of-mnd-is-15-times-higher?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

More evidence of the dangers of rugby.

[Wowbagger]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2023/aug/27/fiasco-of-farrell-and-vunipola-bans-have-zero-effect-on-rugbys-looming-apocalypse

Comments on the recent red cards, and the problems arising from any collision in rugby, written by the same guy whom I quoted in the OP. I'm not sure the second article adds anything new, apart from

...rugby is facing an apocalypse and may very well not exist in its current form in 50 years’ time.

.

I can't see how you can avoid the brain damage without making a tackle illegal, if I've understood the data from Boston University correctly. And that will make the game unrecognisable a lot more quickly than that.

[Jaded]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2023/aug/27/fiasco-of-farrell-and-vunipola-bans-have-zero-effect-on-rugbys-looming-apocalypse

Comments on the recent red cards, and the problems arising from any collision in rugby, written by the same guy whom I quoted in the OP. I'm not sure the second article adds anything new, apart from

...rugby is facing an apocalypse and may very well not exist in its current form in 50 years’ time.

.

I can't see how you can avoid the brain damage without making a tackle illegal, if I've understood the data from Boston University correctly. And that will make the game unrecognisable a lot more quickly than that.

Will anything exist in its current form in 50 years' time?

[T42]

I can remember JPR and Rives exchanging uppercuts in the scrum.  Maybe they should ban scrums as well.

[Nuncio]

JPR²

JPR Williams? I didn't think their rugby careers overlapped, or that JPR(W) would be found in a scrum.

[Wowbagger]

JP Rives and JPR Williams' careers did overlap. Rives first played for France in 1975. JPR's international career was 1969-1981. I don't recall the incident T42 mentions, but JPR very often got mixed up in the loose scrums, if he was tackled and a maul formed around him.

[Jaded]

Jet Propelled Rhino

[Wowbagger]

So far as JPR Williams and brain damage are concerned, so far he has never been diagnosed as such, but in later life he was a Tory candidate in local council elections.

[Mr Larrington]

So far as JPR Williams and brain damage are concerned, so far he has never been diagnosed as such, but in later life he was a Tory candidate in local council elections.

That's all the diagnosis anyone needs.

[Wowbagger]

So far as JPR Williams and brain damage are concerned, so far he has never been diagnosed as such, but in later life he was a Tory candidate in local council elections.

That's all the diagnosis anyone needs.

Especially in South Wales.

[Peter]

Well, he's not exactly a pit-pony.  He went to Millfield School (mind you, so did Gareth Edwards).

[Jaded]

He is a Doctor.

[Peter]

Orthopaedic surgeon - more of a mechanic!

[Wowbagger]

His dad Both parents were doctors too. Apparently JPR occasionally turned up to training in the family Rolls-Royce.

[T42]

So far as JPR Williams and brain damage are concerned, so far he has never been diagnosed as such, but in later life he was a Tory candidate in local council elections.

Rives went on to become a sculptor and restaurant-owner. He also acted a bit.  Some of his sculptures were displayed along the banks (rives in French) of the Rhône in Lyon.

[ElyDave]

Orthopaedic surgeon - more of a mechanic!

There is a scar on my head that is very grateful for his mechanical skills

[Peter]

It's how they are described by other medics, Dave, so subtlety is in short supply!  I had to have an operation on my spine and was advised to get it done by a neuro-surgeon in exactly those terms!  I don't know who actually did the surgery (they have "teams" and your consultant isn't always the one who does it) but it worked out fine.  (I keep the mallet over the fireplace to remind me!)  Hope you had a good experience, too.

[Wowbagger]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/dec/01/diverse-player-list-makes-scale-of-damage-clear-in-lawsuit-against-world-rugby

Bloody hell! That is one hell of a lot of claimants. Rugby is in real trouble. I think it won’t be able to carry on in its present form.

Is there a comparable court case and number of claimants for Rugby League?

[T42]

Cue helmets in the American football style?

[DuncanM]

American football helmets cause as many problems as they solve. They came about to stop skull fractures, but they mean people use their head as a weapon and that means concussions. They have had their own giant lawsuit, and are changing the rules to try to reduce concussion as much as possible.
Rugby is trying to update the laws to reduce concussion avoidance, but it is so hard to do without changing the game.

[Peter]

"reduce concussion avoidance"?

[rogerzilla]

My uncle, whom I never knew, broke his neck and died on the spot from heading a football.  That's an extreme consequence, but brain damage in football is also a big debate at the moment.