Arrivée est arrivé!

[Geriatricdolan]

It seems to me a case of coming to an agreement and fix the article so that it fits the editorial criteria, rather than kicking a big fuss about trivialities...

The Editor has changed the title of my articles twice, without telling me... did I complain? No, firstly because it's his job to make sure things fit with the editorial lines, and secondly because, when it comes to think of it, his titles are actually better than mine.

Just fix it and get it published, I am sure a lot of folks want to read it

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Not going to happen, I suspect. The author doesn’t think the specific changes required to suit the editor’s preferences are trivial but instead detract from the entire point of the article, turning it into another generic ride report. A number of changes had been made to get to now, most of which improved the story but HK didn’t want the article’s point to be sacrificed to get printed.

[megajoulesexpenditure]

For what it's worth and fully prepared to be shot down...........

I feel it would be a great shame if this article wasn't fitted to the editors criteria and published in Arrivee so that the whole of AUK's current/future membership can know and understand the exploits of some of our most inspirational ancestors.

It gives some continuity and context to where we are now as well as making sense of achievement records on the website which otherwise are just a list of meaningless name's.

The editor was appointed by our membership and so to get published we have to fit articles within his guidelines.

Having been an audaxer back to the days of the characters in this article I am fine with the nicknames etc but am also nowadays extremely aware that our membership is very different in character and much much larger than it was in those days. It is after all a pretty long time ago now in respect of generations of riders coming through.
 When I run events nowadays there are always so many new faces which is absolutely brilliant for our organisation. I know full well virtually none of those newcomers will have ever heard any of the nicknames especially up here in the dark North and so for them the inclusion of these won't enhance the article but rather leave them totally baffled and maybe not even finishing reading it, which is then a really great shame as it's a splendid article.

I do hope to see it published in a future Arrivee 

[Cudzoziemiec]

Names are not significant unless they mean something to the reader, and that's usually only the case if you know the person. This applies equally to full, formal names as nicknames. For instance, picking two names from this issue, I know (at least vaguely) who Steve Poulton is but Rob Norris is, well, just a name to me. He could equally well be called "Gasbear" (from his Bristol Rovers teddy – their fans are called Gas Heads) without taking anything away from the story. And if that actually were his nickname, those who know him in person would probably know his nickname too.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I can add that my copy is perfectly printed.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

The editor was not appointed by the membership but by the AUK Board. The magazine should reflect the membership, not just the editor.

I don’t see that compromises should only be made by the author. The author thinks she has compromised enough and there are alternatives to Arrivee. That is where the article now sits.

The article revolves around Liz Creese and her name is there, along with her many nicknames.

[Ian H]

Alt-Audax reading links.  Feel free to add yours.

https://hennessey.uk/auk-randonnee-events/16-words-various-authors
https://audaxing.wordpress.com/  (Jamie Andrews)
http://audaxdemon.co.uk/  (Peter Marshall)
https://judithswallow.com/  (Judith Swallow)

[Geriatricdolan]

The magazine should reflect the membership, not just the editor.

Maybe the editor knows the membership better than you do?
Out of 7,000, how many do you actually know? 50?
What do you know about the 6,000 or so who don't ride brevets regularly, or ever?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I have certainly met more AUK members than the editor has. I joined AUK in 2002 and normally ride 10-20 calendar brevets each year, spread around the countryside. I could probably recognise a few hundred by sight (particularly if they are on their bikes) but my memory for names is abysmal.

[slohill]

It's also worth remembering that AUK has grown considerably in recent years and the majority of members probably don't have clue (or care) who nicknames from a quarter of a century ago, or longer, refer to. Arrivee is intended as a magazine for all the membership, not a clique.

This.
Unfortunately, 99% of the membership don't have an account on YACF, so you don't get to hear their voices. It is true that this seem to be a place for Audaxers with 4 digits in their membership number, who tend to go on about things nobody else has a clue about.

If the author thinks the story is worth publishing, then what is the big deal about putting their name on?

What about 3 digits???  We still exist and are still active!

[slohill]

It seems to me a case of coming to an agreement and fix the article so that it fits the editorial criteria, rather than kicking a big fuss about trivialities...

The Editor has changed the title of my articles twice, without telling me... did I complain? No, firstly because it's his job to make sure things fit with the editorial lines, and secondly because, when it comes to think of it, his titles are actually better than mine.

Just fix it and get it published, I am sure a lot of folks want to read it

Totally Agree---Editor does a great job.  Thanks Ged!

[postie]

I should point out rob Norris is a fine and outstanding member of audax club Portsmouth with good morals,  after all he only joined acp to broaden his beer drinking opportunity's,   

[Karla]

The magazine should reflect the membership, not just the editor.

Maybe the editor knows the membership better than you do?
Out of 7,000, how many do you actually know? 50?
What do you know about the 6,000 or so who don't ride brevets regularly, or ever?

Now let me tell you about the yellowed thong of ambition ...

[postie]

No not the thong of ambition.  First time i got to see it a certain mr hummerstone was wearing it as a alternative to a cycle cap....... Say no more

[Geriatricdolan]

I have certainly met more AUK members than the editor has. I joined AUK in 2002 and normally ride 10-20 calendar brevets each year, spread around the countryside. I could probably recognise a few hundred by sight (particularly if they are on their bikes) but my memory for names is abysmal.

SO what is that you would like to see more of or less of on Arrivee?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

A few more stories about and by AUK characters would be good. The UK is world-renowned for its eccentrics and enthusiasts and AUK’s magazine should celebrate those who manage to ride a long way, particularly if written in a witty manner. There seem to be enough of them riding brevets.

A bit less of the plodding reports “...and then I did this and something else happened.”

[bhoot]

Names are not significant unless they mean something to the reader, and that's usually only the case if you know the person. This applies equally to full, formal names as nicknames. For instance, picking two names from this issue, I know (at least vaguely) who Steve Poulton is but Rob Norris is, well, just a name to me. He could equally well be called "Gasbear" (from his Bristol Rovers teddy – their fans are called Gas Heads) without taking anything away from the story.

I thought about this but for me I think a nickname on its own conveys an expectation that it should mean something to me, whereas a real name doesn't - I can just think do I know him/her or not. I remember someone after an event telling me about some exploits which involved "nickname x" (a prolific audaxer) but at the time I had no idea who it was. The nickname meant nothing to me and so it seemed rather cliquey, and made me feel that I was a real outsider as I probably should know who he was.

I think the combination of both real and nickname can be OK - so using Cudzo's example "Rob Norris (known to his audax friends as Gasbear)", or some similar wording, would be fine for me and would enable me potentially to associate the two names for future reference. 

As is often the case, context and specific wording is key, rather than hard and fast rules like "no nicknames" - but beware of potential alienation if not done in the right way.

[Peter]

I very much miss writing for the magazine.  Stuff has happened which has led to my having to give up the randonnees I loved so much, thereby missing the companionship on the road and the odd pint with deviant Australian engineers.  But I'll try and think of some relevant angles, although I'm confident enough in my own education to be wary of editors other than myself!  I certainly understand some of LWaB's reservations.  Generally, though, I think Ged does a good job.  I don't mind reading about other types of cycling but I think some writers put a little too much of themselves into the narrative; I want to be able to "see" the ride on the page.  A favourite author of mine is John Buchan - but I don't read him for the plot, I read him for the pictures he paints of the landscape; he makes you want to BE there!

[Andy Corless]

Peter,

I've seen some splendid write-ups by you from my own events, more than worthy for the magazine.

Andy Corless

[Peter]

Cheers, Andy - your events are certainly full of "scenery", which makes ther writing easier than the riding!

[Redlight]

A few more stories about and by AUK characters would be good. The UK is world-renowned for its eccentrics and enthusiasts and AUK’s magazine should celebrate those who manage to ride a long way

I agree. I'd just add the proviso that the articles should be written in such a way that they make sense to the majority of readers - those who are not fortunate enough to know what is meant by: Of course, everyone remembers the day when Fartbreath and Wheelsucker rode Beryl the Tandem on Crankbuster's secret 400 and made a point of visiting every one of Saddelsore's favourite bus shelters on their off-route excursions.

And, of course, many recent issues have celebrated people who have ridden a long way.

[Redlight]

Cheers, Andy - your events are certainly full of "scenery", which makes ther writing easier than the riding!

Peter's reports of his solo excursions have also been very goo reads.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

The mystery of not knowing who Fartbreath was would probably be welcomed by most folk. Some witty writing might make up for that lack of specific knowledge though.

[Geriatricdolan]

A few more stories about and by AUK characters would be good. The UK is world-renowned for its eccentrics and enthusiasts and AUK’s magazine should celebrate those who manage to ride a long way, particularly if written in a witty manner. There seem to be enough of them riding brevets.

A bit less of the plodding reports “...and then I did this and something else happened.”

Articles are written by contributors. There are a number of people in AUK we would like to hear more from, Teethgrinder to name one... and since many people even outside AUK know who Steven Abraham is, that would make an interesting read for all.
But I don't think it's the editor that prevents this from happening, it's probably a case of the above mentioned not sending such articles to Arrivee, or not writing them at all.

You can only publish what you are supplied with and if people write accounts of their "first time at the BCM", that's what you get.

[megajoulesexpenditure]

I'd agree with this interpretation as this allows everyone to be included in the fun

I wrote a few articles full of unexplained nicknames and under a pseudonym a long time back when the membership was smaller and more closeknit. At the time it seemed fine but I would not write in that manner now that articles are for a much bigger membership.

Surely there must be a middle ground on this so everyone can have maximum enjoyment of our great magazine?

I think the combination of both real and nickname can be OK - so using Cudzo's example "Rob Norris (known to his audax friends as Gasbear)", or some similar wording, would be fine for me and would enable me potentially to associate the two names for future reference. 

As is often the case, context and specific wording is key, rather than hard and fast rules like "no nicknames" - but beware of potential alienation if not done in the right way.