Author Topic: Google OS  (Read 4617 times)

woollypigs

  • Mr Peli
    • woollypigs
Google OS
« on: 08 July, 2009, 08:33:44 am »
Current mood: AARRRGGGGHHHHH !!! #bollockstobrexit

Rhys W

  • I'm single, bilingual
    • Cardiff Ajax
Re: Google OS
« Reply #1 on: 08 July, 2009, 10:55:56 am »
Seems like the next logical step in their march towards world domination.
Quote
"We are completely redesigning the underlying security architecture of the OS so that users don't have to deal with viruses, malware and security updates.
"It should just work," said Google.

  ;D

Re: Google OS
« Reply #2 on: 08 July, 2009, 11:07:48 am »
The only way to make it so viruses and malware can't run on it is to make it impossible to run anything on it.

Preventing arbitrary code execution is nigh on impossible. MS tried it with the XBOX and it didn't take long for people to find a way in. The XBOX 360 was harder to crack but has fallen. Cryptographically signed binaries are one thing, but are you sure there's not a single buffer overrun that can't be abused to get random stuff onto the stack?

A simple locked down OS that does web browsing, document viewing and editing, email (or access to webmail), etc is relatively easy.

But, what's that? You want to print something? Oh, your printer requires drivers, drivers are arbitrary code from third parties, perfect virus attack vector. *bof*
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

rae

Re: Google OS
« Reply #3 on: 08 July, 2009, 11:17:42 am »
Claiming never to need updates is particularly bold.  They're going to get it right first time, forever.  Hmmm.

Or perhaps they are suggesting that the updates will be more like the chrome browser - i.e. hidden from the user.  They're still happening, they just happen autoamatically and you don't have any choice in the matter.   Until they put out a bad update, this will be fine....

Re: Google OS
« Reply #4 on: 08 July, 2009, 11:22:49 am »
It's just another linux distro, effectively.

Woofage

  • Tofu-eating Wokerati
  • Ain't no hooves on my bike.
Re: Google OS
« Reply #5 on: 08 July, 2009, 11:23:04 am »
I see the Beeb has corrected its article by replacing this paragraph:
Quote
The news could also be a blow to the open source Linux operating system, which had taken an early lead on netbooks, but then lost out to Microsoft's elderly Windows XP.
with this one:
Quote
The operating system, which will run on an open source license, was a "natural extension" of its Chrome browser, the firm said.

Since:
Quote
The software architecture is simple — Google Chrome running within a new windowing system on top of a Linux kernel.
(from Google's Blog)
Pen Pusher

Woofage

  • Tofu-eating Wokerati
  • Ain't no hooves on my bike.
Re: Google OS
« Reply #6 on: 08 July, 2009, 11:23:52 am »
It's just another linux distro, effectively.

Indeed. But instinctively I think that's a good thing.
Pen Pusher

Re: Google OS
« Reply #7 on: 08 July, 2009, 11:29:26 am »
Except it will mean that every other script kiddie from Moscow to Karachi will focus on creating malware for linux boxes.

Re: Google OS
« Reply #8 on: 08 July, 2009, 11:32:22 am »
Except it will mean that every other script kiddie from Moscow to Karachi will focus on creating malware for linux boxes.

What's the problem? If Linux is as stable, secure and unexploitable as lots of people like to point out then there'll be no problem.

;)
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Charlotte

  • Dissolute libertine
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Re: Google OS
« Reply #9 on: 08 July, 2009, 11:37:02 am »
Harsh but fair, Greenbank.

Is the lovely, quiet little backwater of Linux about to be spoiled by the mass-market invasion by the big G?
Commercial, Editorial and PR Photographer - www.charlottebarnes.co.uk

simonp

Re: Google OS
« Reply #10 on: 08 July, 2009, 11:40:03 am »
My previous employer had a Linux box in the DMZ hacked several of years ago.

Of course, it had never been updated...

Woofage

  • Tofu-eating Wokerati
  • Ain't no hooves on my bike.
Re: Google OS
« Reply #11 on: 08 July, 2009, 11:46:13 am »
Is the lovely, quiet little backwater of Linux about to be spoiled by the mass-market invasion by the big G?

I don't think so. OK, Linux may become a household name but users of "real" computers will still be able to use a "real" OS, just as they can now. Also, Linux has been in widespread use in the server market for a few years now. If Linux developers get an extra few quid from Google this can't be a bad thing, surely?
Pen Pusher

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
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Re: Google OS
« Reply #12 on: 08 July, 2009, 11:56:43 am »
The only way to make it so viruses and malware can't run on it is to make it impossible to run anything on it.

This is true, but the security on MS Windows has suffered from design flaws and the problems of maintaining backwards compatibility.
If Google can have a better security model then they might do better for a while vs. viruses

One advantage that Linux has over any commercial closed source system is that any problem can be spotted and fixed by potentially thousands of expert users.   Mind you if Google is basing their stuff on GPL'd source then they will have to be open too.

Re: Google OS
« Reply #13 on: 08 July, 2009, 01:53:19 pm »
Malware requires three things to :-

1) Some way of being run in the first place.
2) Somewhere to hide itself so that is run again
3) Ideally, some way of escalating its privileges so that it can hide itself deep inside the OS and hide its tracks and make removal tricky.

Windows may have more holes to make #1 possible, but Linux isn't completley free of vulnerabilities and exploits.

#3 is the key one, if it can become root then a well written bit of malware is nigh on impossible to spot or remove. Many people resort to reinstallation after being rooted. The vulnerabilities that allow privilege escalation may be being patched all the time, but there are still plenty out there, and every iteration of new software brings in a whole load of new holes. That and the average persons lack of awareness in updating and securing their systems properly.

#2 is relatively easy. Stuff a hokey version of 'cat' or 'vi' in "~/. " (with the space being a hard space) and put that in the PATH variable in their .cshrc or .bashrc. If it ever gets run as root then go to town...

How many people check pgp signatures of software they download before they install it? (The websites of some notable popular software have been hacked in the past. It doesn't take much to include a bit of malware in a commonly installed package).
How many people check the source of software they download, compile and install? (Installing often requires 'make install' to be run as root. Easy to sneak in something there that substitutes a malware infected version of 'cat' for the real OS version. Or bury something in the code itself to do something wacky if it's ever run as root.)
How many people login and run everything as root? (Newer distribs are getting better at discouraging this though.)

The main reason that Linux doesn't have many viruses and malware is that Windows is far more popular and a much easier target. It's not because Linux is amazingly secure or immune to it all. Many of the same tricks that apply to windows can be applied to Linux.

Remember, the hackers don't have to defeat people who understand security, patching and the like. They only have to defeat the average person who's just playing around with Linux and is unlikely to know exactly what they're doing. They've done a default install of Ubuntu and clicked yes to a bunch of stuff they don't really understand. 3 months later someone finds a vulnerability with the version of ssh in 8.05 and no-one does anything about it.

These will be linux boxes behind DSL routers with default passwords or webadmin systems accessible from the outside world. (My BT Homehub gets portscanned 3 or 4 times a day. I've got SNMP management and syslog forwarding setup. It's interesting to see how many dictionary attacks and random probes there are during a day just because it sits in a large IP block for DSL connections.)

The thing that would turn the Linux world on its head would be a concerted attack by everyone who's focusing their energies on Windows viruses/malware. It would get through it, eventually, and it'd be a lot stronger for all the attention, but it would take out a hell of a lot of systems along the way.

There are botnets out there with over 1 million Linux machines. Infection vectors are simple; improperly configured ssh daemons or weak passwords (especially when no-one is bothering to check the logs to see if there are thousands of login attempts per minute as it cycles through a dictionary attack), Web admin vulnerabilities, PHP vulnerabilities, Xvnc, old wuftpdaemons, exploitable bind daemons where users have selected a server install and left everything running, etc, etc.

If anything a locked down OS that auto-updates is a much better situation that the current situation where people install stuff and let it fester.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Google OS
« Reply #14 on: 08 July, 2009, 03:32:24 pm »
The biggest issue for me is that Google are going to use their marketing might to exploit Linux commercially, to a far greater extent that Canonical ever have.  The open-source community should be up in arms.

Woofage

  • Tofu-eating Wokerati
  • Ain't no hooves on my bike.
Re: Google OS
« Reply #15 on: 08 July, 2009, 04:01:00 pm »
The biggest issue for me is that Google are going to use their marketing might to exploit Linux commercially, to a far greater extent that Canonical ever have.  The open-source community should be up in arms.

Why? The Linux kernel is already offered commercially, for example in servers and embedded systems such as routers.
Pen Pusher

Re: Google OS
« Reply #16 on: 08 July, 2009, 04:04:52 pm »
The biggest issue for me is that Google are going to use their marketing might to exploit Linux commercially, to a far greater extent that Canonical ever have.  The open-source community should be up in arms.

Linux has been exploited commercially for years. Thousands of computing devices (NAS boxes, routers, satellite receivers and PVR boxes) all run Linux underneath.

The license is pretty clear about commercial usage, you can do it but you need to give back any changes and improvements you make back to the community. As long as Google do this, and I can't imagine any reason why they wouldn't, it will only benefit the Linux community. Unless I'm missing something the open source community should be happy with this.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Google OS
« Reply #17 on: 08 July, 2009, 04:22:26 pm »
Yes, good points.  I was getting carrried away and not expressing myself clearly.  I'm uncomfortable with a mass-consumer-market application I guess, for no particular good reason.

Re: Google OS
« Reply #18 on: 08 July, 2009, 04:31:18 pm »
Add radios and mobile phones to that list.

Yeah, Linux is already everywhere. Must be alien.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Google OS
« Reply #19 on: 08 July, 2009, 04:33:11 pm »
I think Charlotte pipped it with "lovely little backwater invaded..."
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

Re: Google OS
« Reply #20 on: 08 July, 2009, 04:37:40 pm »
So does this make it Goonix?

Re: Google OS
« Reply #21 on: 08 July, 2009, 04:40:36 pm »
I prefer Goolix.

It will be ironic if it only runs Google Chrome browser and doesn't allow you to use/install another browser (if their windowing system is significantly different to X11 this could be the case). That'd make an interesting anti-trust case. :)
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Google OS
« Reply #22 on: 08 July, 2009, 04:58:50 pm »
Does a linux version of IE even exist?
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

Re: Google OS
« Reply #23 on: 08 July, 2009, 05:02:53 pm »
Does a linux version of IE even exist?

No, but I've used IE on Solaris.

*googles*

Ooh, it was available for HP-UX too.
 
Internet Explorer for UNIX - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ugh, you've just made me remember the Wind/U Registry. Gah.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

woollypigs

  • Mr Peli
    • woollypigs
Re: Google OS
« Reply #24 on: 08 July, 2009, 07:56:31 pm »
I for one is looking forward to this. I really do like what other thing Google have made. Mail = brilliant, map = brilliant, calendar = brilliant etc etc etc and it all just becomes better and better. So if they apply the same to the OS, there is a real chance that this would be brilliant too.
Current mood: AARRRGGGGHHHHH !!! #bollockstobrexit