Author Topic: First smartphone - fairphone (Read 8324 times)

fd3 · « **on:** 20 May, 2023, 01:32:25 pm »

Grudgingly accepting that the world now uses smartphones and that it's sort of required to function.
I am looking at either a Fairphone 4, reconditioned Fairphone 3 or getting a second hand job.
I like the ethic/repairability of the fairphone, but I last pent £20 on a phone over 7 year ago, so am really struggling with pending £250-500.
What sort of pec are needed? Recently had issues using IDnow for international legal things because the camera on my ipad was not up to spec so would like something that would not be outdated for 5-10 years (big ask). I do not plan to shoot a big budget movie on it, play games, or the like though.
Fair 4 specs

(click to show/hide)

Reconditioned Fair 3 specs

(click to show/hide)

There are 250 good reason to go with a reconditioned 3, but if buying once at a higher price will last longer they are actually bad reasons.

What advice would you give me?

T42 · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 May, 2023, 02:51:02 pm »

I'd go rather for a new phone paid over a couple of years. Support, mainly security updates, will continue longer, ditto app compatibility.

My Motorola G8 cost me 8€/month over 2 years.

fd3 · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 May, 2023, 08:50:48 pm »

So, save £250 second hand or buy new?

The Family Cyclist · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 May, 2023, 09:00:10 pm »

I'm no expert but I've read that fair phone doesn't really do what it says on the tin in that they've not always supported the operating systems

Do you need a contract to go with phone? If not I'd ask around as some people are compulsive/habitual upgrades and I've been given loads of phones over the years. I'm currently in the cheapest tesco Samsung. Galaxy 13 I think which is 3 years old. Does everything I need and having paid off on contract which I think was about 13 quid a month I'm now paying about 6 quid a month for my phone contract

quixoticgeek · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 May, 2023, 09:34:17 pm »

I have a fairphone 3+

The main reason I got it over the 4 was the 3.5mm jack. If you don't care about headphones, then get the 4. If you do care about headphones, then the 3+

J

fd3 · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 May, 2023, 10:57:18 am »

^ Recently went wireless with my headphones so the 4 would work for me on that account.

Yes, I could get a second hand phone which would reduce e-waste, but then I could also support the fairphone to keep it in existence. I like the idea of saving money, I also like the idea of buying an already somewhat broken fair4 and then fixing it (because that's part of the point of the design). That said, I'm not sure that I want my first experience of the phone to be possibly breaking it and having a warranty (5 years) vs none would also be an advantage.

Looking at parts online I could buy a phone+screen+battery+cover for ~420 second hand or a new one for ~540. Now I do really like not spending money (my nokia is ~7 years old and was someone's second hand work phone what I got for free) but having voiced some thoughts in this post I think that sending money fairphone's way is possibly an ethical extravagance that I can justify.
If I don't, the alternative is to find a non-fairphone second hand for significantly less (which is good) which would require me to work out what specs to get (which is bad).

hubner · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 May, 2023, 12:39:01 pm »

For secondhand I can recommend the Moto E3 and G5, from about 2016.

Both have SD card slots, 3.5mm headphone jacks and removable batteries. Not all the Moto models have those features though.

I guess about £20-30.

Re repairability, the E3 wouldn't charge, I bought a replacement USB port board from Ebay and managed to fit it to the phone.

fd3 · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 May, 2023, 06:00:23 pm »

I've gone with a Fairphone 4 - which is *so* much more than I want to spend on a phone, but if I use it for >5 years will be a legit move.

Had a quick look at the idea of linux phones, /e/os and the like. I am not sure what the point of a Linux phone is as it won't run many apps, so will basically be a big and expensive nokia brick. Then I guess a big reason for me getting a smartphone is needing to run banking apps, so possibly linux phone users just go without.

hubner · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 May, 2023, 12:59:23 am »

I would have thought online banking can be done on a phone using the bank's normal website via a web browser, eg Firefox. The same as how I do online banking on my laptop.

quixoticgeek · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 May, 2023, 08:51:54 am »

Quote from: hubner on 29 May, 2023, 12:59:23 am

I would have thought online banking can be done on a phone using the bank's normal website via a web browser, eg Firefox. The same as how I do online banking on my laptop.

Nope. A lot of banks now use the online banking app itself as a second factor for authentication.

J

hubner · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 May, 2023, 09:13:09 am »

That's lucky then, as the bank doesn't have any email address or phone number from me.

quixoticgeek · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 May, 2023, 09:16:16 am »

Quote from: hubner on 29 May, 2023, 09:13:09 am

That's lucky then, as the bank doesn't have any email address or phone number from me.

That could cause you new problems in the future. Rules are coming in that require a second factor authentication for online payments, which is implemented variously by different banks, but solutions include a texted code, or a pop up request in the banking app on your phone.

I am curious why you feel your bank should only be able to contact you by letter?

J

Pickled Onion · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 May, 2023, 09:29:03 am »

Quote from: quixoticgeek on 29 May, 2023, 08:51:54 am

Quote from: hubner on 29 May, 2023, 12:59:23 am
I would have thought online banking can be done on a phone using the bank's normal website via a web browser, eg Firefox. The same as how I do online banking on my laptop.

Nope. A lot of banks now use the online banking app itself as a second factor for authentication.

J

They do, but for the traditional banks there are alternatives to cater for the millions of people who don't have a smartphone. Text or voice message for 2FA and usually website for payment verification.

Only the challenger banks require you to run their app. Last time I looked, Revolut's* website consisted only of an advert for its app and statutory information. You couldn't even open an account without the app. For fairly obvious reasons, their target customers don't include the minority without a smartphone, and certainly not the tiny minority who run a linux phone.

* not strictly a bank, but I would guess Starling, Monzo, etc are similar.

Pickled Onion · « **Reply #13 on:** 29 May, 2023, 09:32:51 am »

Quote from: quixoticgeek on 29 May, 2023, 09:16:16 am

Quote from: hubner on 29 May, 2023, 09:13:09 am
That's lucky then, as the bank doesn't have any email address or phone number from me.

That could cause you new problems in the future. Rules are coming in that require a second factor authentication for online payments, which is implemented variously by different banks, but solutions include a texted code, or a pop up request in the banking app on your phone.

I am curious why you feel your bank should only be able to contact you by letter?

J

It could be extremely inconvenient if the bank suspects a fraudulent transaction and the only means of contact is a letter, and your card is blocked until you've responded.

quixoticgeek · « **Reply #14 on:** 29 May, 2023, 09:43:36 am »

Quote from: Pickled Onion on 29 May, 2023, 09:32:51 am

It could be extremely inconvenient if the bank suspects a fraudulent transaction and the only means of contact is a letter, and your card is blocked until you've responded.

That's my thinking.

I am wondering what the threatmodel is that would make someone willing to bank with an institution, to trust them with your physical address. To trust them with your money, but to not trust them with your phone number and/or email.

Quote from: Pickled Onion on 29 May, 2023, 09:29:03 am

They do, but for the traditional banks there are alternatives to cater for the millions of people who don't have a smartphone. Text or voice message for 2FA and usually website for payment verification.

That's not going to work for Hubner... if they don't have a phone number, they can't text or call with the 2fa code.

The website thing doesn't work if it's on the website already. If you are logged into online banking on your laptop and require a 2nd factor, you logging into the online banking website on another device is not going to be it.

Quote

Only the challenger banks require you to run their app. Last time I looked, Revolut's* website consisted only of an advert for its app and statutory information. You couldn't even open an account without the app. For fairly obvious reasons, their target customers don't include the minority without a smartphone, and certainly not the tiny minority who run a linux phone.

* not strictly a bank, but I would guess Starling, Monzo, etc are similar.

Quite. Tho do note that Android uses the Linux kernel under the hood. So all non iphone smartphones are Linux phones underneath, they just might not have google's cruft on top.

J

Pickled Onion · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 May, 2023, 10:07:23 am »

Quote from: quixoticgeek on 29 May, 2023, 09:43:36 am

That's not going to work for Hubner... if they don't have a phone number, they can't text or call with the 2fa code.

The website thing doesn't work if it's on the website already. If you are logged into online banking on your laptop and require a 2nd factor, you logging into the online banking website on another device is not going to be it.

The website thing is for payment verification, you make a payment on one website, you verify with the bank and as you're on the web you've obviously got web access. Though at that point you are still going to need 2FA on the bank's website, and there are a small number of banks that still use physical 2FA devices. Unless hubner has one of those (or the bank's app) they are likely to be locked out of online banking very shortly.

hubner · « **Reply #16 on:** 29 May, 2023, 10:09:23 am »

Yes I do use a card reader for online banking.

I don't like using a phone as 2fa because it could stop working at any time, whether it'a weak signal, no credits, flat battery etc. Having said that, I do and have been "forced" to use it for my Paypal account via text.

I prefer to use a good password which I think is uncrackable. I also only do security critical stuff like online banking, making payments or anything involving personal information at home on my full disk encrypted laptop. I treat my phones as "public", I don't even do emails on them.

quixoticgeek · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 May, 2023, 10:12:04 am »

Quote from: Pickled Onion on 29 May, 2023, 10:07:23 am

The website thing is for payment verification, you make a payment on one website, you verify with the bank and as you're on the web you've obviously got web access. Though at that point you are still going to need 2FA on the bank's website, and there are a small number of banks that still use physical 2FA devices. Unless hubner has one of those (or the bank's app) they are likely to be locked out of online banking very shortly.

If I make a payment with online banking on my laptop, I have to verify it on the banking app on my phone...

J

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 May, 2023, 10:25:03 am »

Authentification isn't required for every purchase though, just as it isn't with contactless cards.

quixoticgeek · « **Reply #19 on:** 29 May, 2023, 10:34:27 am »

Quote from: Cudzoziemiec on 29 May, 2023, 10:25:03 am

Authentification isn't required for every purchase though, just as it isn't with contactless cards.

I seem to have to authorise most of mine

Guess it depends on the bank...

J

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #20 on:** 29 May, 2023, 10:35:14 am »

Perhaps you just make a lot of dodgy purchases?

quixoticgeek · « **Reply #21 on:** 29 May, 2023, 10:40:01 am »

Quote from: Cudzoziemiec on 29 May, 2023, 10:35:14 am

Perhaps you just make a lot of dodgy purchases?

Oh very plausible. Having to buy bike parts from all over the place these days...

Plus an unhealthy level of purchase on AliExpress. Currently my record is 34 AliExpress packages arriving on a single day...

But the one thing that I get 2fa checked on more than anything else. Is ordering a curry for home delivery...

J

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #22 on:** 29 May, 2023, 10:50:28 am »

Use of Ali Baba group is in itself an ethical consideration. Especially, I suppose, Ali Cloud.

Kim · « **Reply #23 on:** 29 May, 2023, 11:27:22 am »

Quote from: quixoticgeek on 29 May, 2023, 09:16:16 am

Quote from: hubner on 29 May, 2023, 09:13:09 am
That's lucky then, as the bank doesn't have any email address or phone number from me.

That could cause you new problems in the future. Rules are coming in that require a second factor authentication for online payments, which is implemented variously by different banks, but solutions include a texted code, or a pop up request in the banking app on your phone.

I am curious why you feel your bank should only be able to contact you by letter?

Barakta had this problem. As usual, she hadn't given them a phone number, because Stupid Hearing People can't resist the urge to make voice calls to them, and banks are high up the list of people you don't want making unscheduled voice calls about important things. Which was fine until they needed to do SMS for 2FA.

fd3 · « **Reply #24 on:** 29 May, 2023, 12:54:45 pm »

A reason for my getting a smartphone is a new credit card that I can only activate using the phone app. If I didn't want cashback I could bank exclusively with the coop and use web based banking (and I believe they have linux app).