Almost 19% of the network will now be designated for experienced cyclists only, and 4.5% (753 miles) of busy on-road sections will have all signage removed.It would be great if it was all suitable for every rider, that isn't likely to happen anytime soon, classifying it would seem a sensible thing to do in the meantime.
"NCN that everyone has been criticising for poor quality in many places, finally recognises that large amounts of it are poor quality"
No, I remember their consultation and it was one of my comments and it seems very many others that much of what's been put in place is pish and they need some quality control.
"NCN that everyone has been criticising for poor quality in many places, finally recognises that large amounts of it are poor quality"
Or did I miss something?
J
Hopefully this is the start of them putting in decent infrastructure rather than accepting pish because they're upstarts and the councils only want the money.
It’s pretty vague on whether muddy footpaths and flights of stairs are going too.
There's no indication in the article of anything being improved, only the removal of on-road sections from the official routes.
I meant improving the off-road or 'traffic-free' sections, such as replacing steps with slopes at reasonable gradient (or having both options), removing slaloms and other barriers, giving everything some sort of surface that doesn't require an MTB and cyclocross skills, etc.
It’s pretty vague on whether muddy footpaths and flights of stairs are going too.
Yesterday's rant (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=10.msg2519376#msg2519376)
I did try riding the section of NCN2 west of Hythe on a road bike once. Think I'll stick to the 40mph busy main road next time.
See also: 'Cyclists dismount' signs. >:(
My litmus test for this is NCN 33 north of Burnham-on-Sea which is literally just a soft sand beach with no sea wall or concrete path. I wouldn't want to try it on a mountain bike.
Sustrans are never going to get permission or cash to pave a beach, the Strava global heatmap indicates hardly anyone is riding on it, and yet it's still on the updated map. WTAF? Do they think it's going to turn into a useful route somehow?
(http://fondantfancies.com/ncn33.jpg)
There's a tile I want that would require going out onto the mud. Trying to work out how to address this.
There's a tile I want that would require going out onto the mud. Trying to work out how to address this.Wait for high tide and swim ?
Having cycled in several European countries and seen how good things can be, I have some sympathy with Sustrans. They have managed to persuade unsympathetic local authorities to support useful cycle routes, I'm sure they wouldn't have done so otherwise. My impression is that the culture change required - cycling as a practical, healthy, environmentally good form of transport - still isn't recognised by politicians and highways engineers.
For example, there's a big road junction two miles from me. Rebuilt a few years ago and despite this it has all the classic 1970's features. Merging traffic lanes, traffic lights with no ASL, token cycle path which involves leaving the road and waiting at crossing lights, there's even the classic 'cyclists dismount' sign, for no apparent reason.
It would be nice to think that this review will help to encourage better cycle path and on-road cycle standards ....
Route 1 around Canterbury always seemed like this. The Crab and Winkle way part, from Canterbury to Whistable is lovely as a scenic ride, but if you wanted to commute from Canterbury to Whitstable, it's not a route you'd wanna take, not on a dark winter's eve when it's raining. Their route 18 section along the river was opened with much fanfare and celebration, and I used to use it to cycle to Chartham to get cake from the farmers market, but the cattle grids made it most unpleasant, the one time I tried to use it on the way back from college it was largely impassable due to sheep, and entirely unlit. Then of course it's underwater for a good 3 months of the year... and you don't wanna do it on 23mm tyres...
Splatchers.There's a tile I want that would require going out onto the mud. Trying to work out how to address this.
Tennis rackets on feet?
Snow Shoes
Mud Shoes?
There's a tile I want that would require going out onto the mud. Trying to work out how to address this.
I don't know when you last rode the C&W but it has been much improved in recent years - there are still a few roughish sections but the worst bits are now mostly tarmac. Personally, I would far rather use it for commuting between W and C than the A290 (which I live on) or the Radfall Road - the archetypal narrow, winding country lane with a 60 limit that many of the local drivers treat as a minimum target speed.
The route to Chartham has also been significantly upgraded and is fairly rideable in summer, though it does still have a couple of cattle grids and still has large underwater sections in winter.
Bizarrely, I was out walking the dog on the C&W recently when a motorbike came through - not just a yoof on a 50cc hairdryer, a grown-up bloke on proper big 500cc job. He was progressing oh-so-carefully, clearly knowing he shouldn't be there, but WTAF? I should have pushed the fucker off. >:(
Unless it's lit it's not going to work.
it used to be all gravel for the most part.
I'm guessing said motorbike rider got lost and was trying to work out how to get out of there... or maybe following a sat nav?
Their muddled thought process of focusing on "ordinary" cyclists, rather than those who wear lycra and ride nice road bikes, seems to have blinded them to the possibility that even "ordinary" cyclists don't like having to carry their bikes up flights of stairs, and don't much care for riding over rough, muddy terrain with rocks and tree roots to negotiate.
Their muddled thought process of focusing on "ordinary" cyclists, rather than those who wear lycra and ride nice road bikes, seems to have blinded them to the possibility that even "ordinary" cyclists don't like having to carry their bikes up flights of stairs, and don't much care for riding over rough, muddy terrain with rocks and tree roots to negotiate.
I think their idea of 'ordinary' cyclists are basically those who dust the BSO off a few times a year in order to pootle 2 miles with their 6-10 year old. As such their priority is a) no cars and b) see (a).
That might even be a fair assessment of the majority of BRITISH cycling. Certainly it's what I'd expect to get if you hang around with a clipboard in the average park-that-happens-to-have-a-NCN-route-through-it. I think that's also the priority of the average NCN pedestrian, who just wants some peace & quiet / breathable air while taking a useful shortcut, going for a run or emptying their dog.
They'll make a token nod to other flavours of cyclist, particularly those riding off-road bikes over pretty hills, and those commuting between Bristol and Bath, but seem to have a real blind spot for loaded tourists and faster cyclists who just want a minimum of faff. I do genuinely think they grok the issues of non-standard cycles, child trailers and the like, but are limited by their lack of control over the physical infrastructure.
They've got this catch-22 problem where sticking their brand on any old rubbish to increase the on-paper size of the network gives them more credibility in the eyes of those allocating resources. I think they've realised this wasn't working, and are now trying to achieve some sort of standards. Unfortunately, their priority (for better or for worse) remains the avoidance of motor traffic.
And we should build them like Roman Roads. Draw a line between every major town, bend it slightly to make it go to villages.
And we should build them like Roman Roads. Draw a line between every major town, bend it slightly to make it go to villages.
You've been in .nl too long. There's nothing wrong with going *round* the hills, if it doesn't add too much extra distance. (There's probably a formula for calculating whether a given Larrington Manoeuvre is reasonable. Set it to female utility cyclist with child seat or something.)
And we should build them like Roman Roads. Draw a line between every major town, bend it slightly to make it go to villages.
You've been in .nl too long. There's nothing wrong with going *round* the hills, if it doesn't add too much extra distance. (There's probably a formula for calculating whether a given Larrington Manoeuvre is reasonable. Set it to female utility cyclist with child seat or something.)
Boring.
Seriously, go through the hills.
And we should build them like Roman Roads. Draw a line between every major town, bend it slightly to make it go to villages.
You've been in .nl too long. There's nothing wrong with going *round* the hills, if it doesn't add too much extra distance. (There's probably a formula for calculating whether a given Larrington Manoeuvre is reasonable. Set it to female utility cyclist with child seat or something.)
Boring.
Seriously, go through the hills.
J
You are Elon Musk AICM5PBTC
And we should build them like Roman Roads. Draw a line between every major town, bend it slightly to make it go to villages.
You've been in .nl too long. There's nothing wrong with going *round* the hills, if it doesn't add too much extra distance. (There's probably a formula for calculating whether a given Larrington Manoeuvre is reasonable. Set it to female utility cyclist with child seat or something.)
Boring.
Seriously, go through the hills.
J
Where do you think this is, Norway or something?
Somehow boring tunnels in the UK is considerably more expensive than anywhere else in the world, even Norway...
Who said anything about tunnels? Cuttings, my man, cuttings.
NCN 11, wot goes past the end of my road is actually not that bad in the main. The really annoying bits are the 2ft wide, cracked and potholed surface along the river bank from Ely to Barway and the gravelled/mud section from Wicken towards Swaffham Prior, both of which are navigable, even in winter on 28mm tyres (but not a 'bent), but not really commute suitable. The Barway section is passablem, but tricky to do so without a main road, the Wicken section is easily passable on decent back roads, which is now my new route of choice to Addenbrookes. The section North to Kings Lynn by contrast is great - mostly on nice country lanes - audax style, even passing a few pubbes
Who said anything about tunnels? Cuttings, my man, cuttings.
NCN 11, wot goes past the end of my road is actually not that bad in the main. The really annoying bits are the 2ft wide, cracked and potholed surface along the river bank from Ely to Barway and the gravelled/mud section from Wicken towards Swaffham Prior, both of which are navigable, even in winter on 28mm tyres (but not a 'bent), but not really commute suitable. The Barway section is passablem, but tricky to do so without a main road, the Wicken section is easily passable on decent back roads, which is now my new route of choice to Addenbrookes. The section North to Kings Lynn by contrast is great - mostly on nice country lanes - audax style, even passing a few pubbes
What about doing it on a hand cycle? or a cargo trike? or with a trailer?
If it can't take these, it's not suitable.
J
And we should build them like Roman Roads. Draw a line between every major town, bend it slightly to make it go to villages.
You've been in .nl too long. There's nothing wrong with going *round* the hills, if it doesn't add too much extra distance. (There's probably a formula for calculating whether a given Larrington Manoeuvre is reasonable. Set it to female utility cyclist with child seat or something.)
And we should build them like Roman Roads. Draw a line between every major town, bend it slightly to make it go to villages.
You've been in .nl too long. There's nothing wrong with going *round* the hills, if it doesn't add too much extra distance. (There's probably a formula for calculating whether a given Larrington Manoeuvre is reasonable. Set it to female utility cyclist with child seat or something.)
I expect the canal builders of old worked it out. Contour canal versus flights of locks, embankments, cuttings, tunnels, aqueducts and the Foxton Inclined Plane.
There's a tile I want that would require going out onto the mud. Trying to work out how to address this.
Tennis rackets on feet?
Snow Shoes
Mud Shoes?
There's a tile I want that would require going out onto the mud. Trying to work out how to address this.
There's a tile I want that would require going out onto the mud. Trying to work out how to address this.
What are these "tiles" of which you speak?
I do have something of a habit of going down side roads, just on the basis of "hmm, wonder where that goes?", the answer round here being mostly nowhere as they stop abruptly at a drainage ditch. Can't be added chasing yet another made up number though
There's an audax, the Jack & Grace Cotton Memorial ride, that used to use an open prison as a control. Refreshments made and served by the prisoners.Hm you've given me an idea, must contact Castle Huntly, would be odd for them to have people wanting to come in I suppose.
I might be in cynic mode. I watched a presentation about the West Kernow Way (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkvXb4s0ic4) last night, which basically ended in "...Oh, you'll need to drive to the start."
I might be in cynic mode. I watched a presentation about the West Kernow Way (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkvXb4s0ic4) last night, which basically ended in "...Oh, you'll need to drive to the start."
Oh ffs.
To be fair to we arecyclingUK, they have almost as little control over GWR's cycle provision as GWR do.
It's all very well saying "You could always cycle there", but this is a largely off-road route with narrow technical sections that pretty much requires knobbly tyres and bikepacking tactics - the sort of thing most people would quite reasonably want to use a MTB or gravel bike for. Which isn't ideal for covering large distances on road, even if you had the abundance of free time.
But the CTC have always been a bit like this. If it's not cars, it's aeroplanes. I assume it's what their demographic surveys tell them about their membership.
You'd think it should start and finish at a station.
Sustrans should be leading the campaign for bikes on trains in the UK as well.
However, there are concerns that at the current rate of progress – Sustrans, the charity that manages the network, will complete 416 miles of improvements by 2023, and has removed just 315 of 16,000 barriers – the goal of a barrier-free network could take another 150 years.
The charity owns only 2% of the network, much of which is on public roads, and its latest report into the state of the current NCN shows how far there is still to go. Only a third of the NCN is currently traffic-free. A third (33%) is classed by Sustrans as very poor, 61% good and only 2% very good.
Xavier Brice, Sustrans’ CEO, told the Guardian: “The idea of the National Cycle Network isn’t to, for example, replace the need for fully segregated high-volume cycle lanes in cities and towns, or to replace the need for neighbourhoods that are pleasant and easy to move around without a car. This is a strategic arterial core network.
This is a strategic arterial core network.
There's an audax, the Jack & Grace Cotton Memorial ride, that used to use an open prison as a control. Refreshments made and served by the prisoners."Waiter, there's a file in my cake"