Cross Training: Running

[Sigurd Mudtracker]

This thread has a lot to answer for with discussions of LDWA events, "audax" running and ultras in general.  I've stumbled on the UltraMarathonRunning.com website which as well as events also has links to training advice, and in particular was taken by the UltraLadies' 50km advice which suggested that even an ordinary mortal such as myself could do it.  So far I haven't entered anything, but have spent some time arguing with myself why I shouldn't rejig this year's training targets to run an ultra - next year is soon enough...

[NikW]

This thread has a lot to answer for with discussions of LDWA events, "audax" running and ultras in general.  I've stumbled on the UltraMarathonRunning.com website which as well as events also has links to training advice, and in particular was taken by the UltraLadies' 50km advice which suggested that even an ordinary mortal such as myself could do it.  So far I haven't entered anything, but have spent some time arguing with myself why I shouldn't rejig this year's training targets to run an ultra - next year is soon enough...

That UltraLadies schedule looks good - I like the idea* of knocking out a couple of marathons in the preceding month.  The authoress is a Badwater finisher so ought to know what she's going on about (but there again I suppose to her 50k is just the little bit at the end of Badwater after you've bagged the first 100 miles).  Why a separate schedule for ladies I wonder?

A good tale of ultra Scot Jurek having a bad time on Runners World website!

Been my turn for sore feet this week, sole of my left foot where the wotsit muscle joins the heal got so painful I walked back from my Tuesday run.  I think running Compton in worn shoes took it's toll but I just didn't feel it till afterwards.  A few days rest and a brand new pair of Inov8s and I was good for 10 miles trail today.

* Just the idea - I suspect the reality would be a bit wearing.

[andygates]

Meanwhile down at the short end of the course, it's time for a goal for the week: This 5k run loop inna lunchtime barefoot stylee.  Not worried about time, Just Do It.

[geraldc]

Brighton Marathon this Sunday, not enough training, going to be interesting 

[NikW]

Brighton Marathon this Sunday, not enough training, going to be interesting 

Good luck -  training just wears you out before you've even started 

[NikW]

Meanwhile down at the short end of the course, it's time for a goal for the week: This 5k run loop inna lunchtime barefoot stylee.  Not worried about time, Just Do It.

I had a strange turn last week after that bad run.  I thought 'why not' took my shoes and socks off and ran gently once round the meadow.  Only about 500 metres but still quite liberating and surprisingly comfortable.

A bloke walking his dog made a point of looking in the opposite direction to avoid meeting the nutters eyes 

[andygates]

Uphill is so much nicer than down.  Done, with several stops to stretch out the giant balloon calves of DEATH.  Now to do it moar!

[Rich753]

One other benefit of vff - they are excellent for squats and deadlifts   

[andygates]

Aren't they just?   

They utterly suck for turbo-trainer work though.  I forgot my bike shoes for tonight's tri club session, and had to do everything in the vff's.  Running fine, turbo daft.

[Rich753]

What is your thinking for your triathlon - will you swap shoes or use toeclips and keep the vffs on all the time (could you swim in them)?

[NikW]

Brighton Marathon this Sunday, not enough training, going to be interesting 

So was it fun 

[geraldc]

It was excellent! I plodded round the course in 5hrs 5 mins. Which I'm more than happy with given the level of training, and extra weight I'm carrying 

It was a great marathon, weather was a bit too sunny, but with only 10 thousand runners, and massive crowds lining almost the entire course it was a great experience.
I actually thought it was far better than the London marathon.

[andygates]

What is your thinking for your triathlon - will you swap shoes or use toeclips and keep the vffs on all the time (could you swim in them)?

I'll swap shoes.  I bike sockless anyway (there's no point for half an hour) so it'll just be the hilarity of getting them on at speed.  I'll be practicing that.

Note for cycling: they have about a -5mm platform height, 'cos you squish down into the spindle.  That means that your saddle *is* too high (which is what I think re-borked my knee on the turbo).  Also, they suck.  Really really suck.  Unless you have big solid platforms, they suck chunky goat vomit through a twisty straw.  Cruiser = yay.  Time trial = you may as well keep your hair dry in the swim and towel off.

[NikW]

It was excellent! I plodded round the course in 5hrs 5 mins. Which I'm more than happy with given the level of training, and extra weight I'm carrying 

It was a great marathon, weather was a bit too sunny, but with only 10 thousand runners, and massive crowds lining almost the entire course it was a great experience.
I actually thought it was far better than the London marathon.

It was a bit warm Sunday - I managed to get both sunburnt and dehydrated on my long run and was still back before lunch.

[David Martin]

This morning was lovely, my lift to the TT tonight is not happening so I ran in. Even did an extra loop on the hill.

3.5 miles, 365ft ascent, 450 descent, but my legs ache a bit and I am HUNGRY.

..d

[NikW]

I'm not convinced that humans are that well designed for running at all, animals that stuck to using all four limbs seem to be better at it.  I guess we had to learn to run on two legs to escape predators when we came down from the trees but now we are civilised we've realised it easier just to make them extinct instead.

You might like to read "Born to Run" by Christopher McDougall (coming out in paperback next month).  He puts forward a very persuasive argument that humans are made to run, and that our bipedal approach gives us certain advantages over quadrupeds which allowed early man to be a very successful hunter and to range far and wide.  Expanding on this argument he goes on to show evidence that most runners can continue to function at the same sort of level with little relative decline into their sixties.  This cheered me up immensely!

I've been reading 'Born to Run', a great book, much more 'Feet in the Clouds' than 'Runners Handbook'.  Very engrossing, a proper story with a plot rather than a load of training blurgh - highly recommended   

Not quite finished it yet but after sinking into the story with a couple of beers I was getting very tempted to throw all my shoes in the bin, run the trails and go to work barefoot (do they do steel toecap VFFs?).  The arguments and evidence against over-protective shoes are good but I guess the problem is that many of us are too broken and dysfunctional to even survive without society's artificial cushionings, let alone run.

Still after I've got the Neolithic Marathon out of the way I think I may experiment (and maybe eat a few of my earlier words).

[Rich753]

I'm not convinced that humans are that well designed for running at all, animals that stuck to using all four limbs seem to be better at it.  I guess we had to learn to run on two legs to escape predators when we came down from the trees but now we are civilised we've realised it easier just to make them extinct instead.

You might like to read "Born to Run" by Christopher McDougall (coming out in paperback next month).  He puts forward a very persuasive argument that humans are made to run, and that our bipedal approach gives us certain advantages over quadrupeds which allowed early man to be a very successful hunter and to range far and wide.  Expanding on this argument he goes on to show evidence that most runners can continue to function at the same sort of level with little relative decline into their sixties.  This cheered me up immensely!

I've been reading 'Born to Run', a great book, much more 'Feet in the Clouds' than 'Runners Handbook'.  Very engrossing, a proper story with a plot rather than a load of training blurgh - highly recommended   

 I was getting very tempted to throw all my shoes in the bin, run the trails and go to work barefoot (do they do steel toecap VFFs?). 

Thanks for the headsup on "Born to Run" in paperback - something for the birthday list.

Instead of steel toecapped vff try these
Dunlop Footwear

flat heels for forefoot running encouraged, little or no cushioning and very non-slip.  plus your toes are protected   

think they'll do a job and a lot cheaper than vffs

[andygates]

Is that Chuck Norris?

[Greenbank]

Chuck doesn't need a nail gun.

[mike]

having had damn sore shins the last few times I've run, and having to not run for the past 2 weeks, I finally made it to a physio last night.  Really interesting process, checking flexibility and mobility, seeing how I stand then watching me run round a track. 

Seems I am very flexible 'for a cyclist', but rotate both of my feet over to the left, stand and run with my left foot directly under my body and right foot out to the side slightly,  walk and run with my feet too close together and run 'from the knee rather than from the hip'. 

She recons it comes from having underdeveloped glutes, something Mrs mike thought was hilarious, given the size of my backside..

So lots of arse-building exercises for the next eight weeks

update..

have been gradually building up distance, starting off at 3 minutes run / 1 minute walk for 20 minutes, concentrating on keeping my feet a bit wider apart and trying to push rather than pull (if that makes sense). 

& its going really well!  just back from 9 miles in 90 minutes, which was 11 x 7 minutes run, 1 minute walk.  A beautiful run, could have gone a bit quicker but wanted to make sure I didnt explode before the end.  No shin pain at all, just tired legs. 

I dont want to push my luck so will do some short sharp intervals or hills for the next week or so then got a triathlon in <gulp> Keswick in a fortnight so that'll be a nice hilly 10k test.......

[NikW]

having had damn sore shins the last few times I've run, and having to not run for the past 2 weeks, I finally made it to a physio last night.  Really interesting process, checking flexibility and mobility, seeing how I stand then watching me run round a track. 

Seems I am very flexible 'for a cyclist', but rotate both of my feet over to the left, stand and run with my left foot directly under my body and right foot out to the side slightly,  walk and run with my feet too close together and run 'from the knee rather than from the hip'. 

She recons it comes from having underdeveloped glutes, something Mrs mike thought was hilarious, given the size of my backside..

So lots of arse-building exercises for the next eight weeks

update..

have been gradually building up distance, starting off at 3 minutes run / 1 minute walk for 20 minutes, concentrating on keeping my feet a bit wider apart and trying to push rather than pull (if that makes sense). 

& its going really well!  just back from 9 miles in 90 minutes, which was 11 x 7 minutes run, 1 minute walk.  A beautiful run, could have gone a bit quicker but wanted to make sure I didnt explode before the end.  No shin pain at all, just tired legs. 

I dont want to push my luck so will do some short sharp intervals or hills for the next week or so then got a triathlon in <gulp> Keswick in a fortnight so that'll be a nice hilly 10k test.......

If you can run/walk 9 miles @ 10 min/miles pain free then I don't see you having much problem racing 10k.

Though you do the run bit last with tri don't you - guess you could be a bit knackered

[DrMekon]

Did my first 10k in 5+ years last weekend, so decided to put a bit more in to it today, on the basis I knew I could get around. Loads of effort, culminating in coughing/vomiting when I stopped. All that effort got took 27 seconds off the time. TWENTY SEVEN SECONDS! There is no justice in this world.

I blame the tories.

[andygates]

That's not trivial!  It's, um...

six seconds per mile

...okay, it's not epic either.  But it's FASTER and that's full of WIN!

[NikW]

Surely it all depends which seconds they were. 

I scraped in at 49:52 at the Prestwood 10k yesterday - another 7 secs would be neither here nor there but another 10 secs would have felt like whole minutes 

You didn't throw up on the timekeeper did you 

[mattc]

There is a chap I often see round my end of Oxford running barefoot.  I would say he was a Rastafarian but I'm not sure, he's often to be seen running in some sort of ceremonial gear - sort of leopard skin judo suit with matching flowerpot on head and voodoo stick.  He is a strong, elegant runner and makes quite a sight. 

I've seen him on and off for years but actually bothered to look at his feet the other week and his heals do seem to stop just before touching the ground.

Feet can get pretty tough if you walk barefoot a lot.  I used to go round barefoot a lot in my late teens and don't remember injuring myself.  We would stand at the bus stop on the way to the pub and I'd grind out my fag butt on the tarmac with bare feet - it'd get some great looks from the old dears.  God I was an obnoxious git!

2 barefoot runs - 4x2mins around the football club's training pitch - in the middle of 'normal' runs. Felt bloody fantastic, no ill effects so far.
Did a cautious recce of the loop with shoes on first, then went for it. At this stage the slightest bit of hard earth sends alarm signals through my feet, if I tread on a stone I shall probably faint.  If it wasn't for budget issues I'd buy some VFFs right now.

Now upto 30mins (plus a little cautionary walking). Using the old shoes to avoid blisters. Dorsal pain went away following:
- rest
- use of inserts to raise my heel while walking
- new orthotics, as recommended by podio, in running shoes.

I guess I need new shoes that fit differently to cure the blister issue. Why are the VFFs so expensive?!? Might buy some cheap/light racing flats instead ...