Author Topic: Not really getting on with SPDs  (Read 12391 times)

Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #75 on: 03 November, 2020, 10:34:21 pm »
Didn't the very first clipless design, circa 1984 – I think it might have been Cinelli? – require you to flip a lever before unclipping?

the Cinelli design is older than that, and it does have a lever to release, but it ain't the first clipless pedal system. 

http://www.speedplay.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.history

several types before 1898....?

cheers

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #76 on: 04 November, 2020, 05:21:55 am »
Plus some more recent models. eg the PD-A600 or PD-ES600. Shimano say they are designed for road / touring etc, equivalent to Ultegra.


The big problem with a lot of clipless pedals, and a fair few flats these days tbf, is they don't have an obvious or easy way to attach reflectors. A lot of jurisdictions have a requirement for pedal reflectors. Sure you'd have to be having a really bad day to be nicked for not having pedal reflectors, but still, in event of an accident, a not completely 100% road legal bike could cause you liability issues down the line.

It's one of the things I like about my M324's, they take normal pedal reflectors, with ease.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #77 on: 04 November, 2020, 06:17:32 am »
reflectors are indeed a problem with many SPDs

PD-ES600 is a case in point

https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-PD-ES600-4363.pdf

shimano offer SM-PD62 reflectors for this pedal (and others);



However in terms of robustness I would say they need a lot to be desired; many pedal reflectors are pretty lousy but these deserve some kind of special prize. 

IME conventional reflectors only last reasonably well if they are mounted in recesses in the pedal body.  PD-M324 is better than other SPDs but that is faint praise indeed; they are easily knocked off.

An alternative which is not strictly legal, (but far better than nothing) is to use yellow reflexite sheeting in place of pedal reflectors.  This can either be stuck to the pedal body or mounted within the jaw structure of SPDs. 

cheers

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #78 on: 04 November, 2020, 06:23:11 am »
I prefer not bashing reflectors and pedals into the road when I pedal round corners or stuff up clipping in, so pick the lowest profile pedals I can get away with. Reflectors lose out.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #79 on: 04 November, 2020, 06:27:19 am »
I stopped using spuds and I am damned glad I did. I found them a big liability when riding (several clip less mo,ents) but the real decider was the exacerbation of the arthritis in my left ankle, caused by unclipping everybtime I came to a stop.

I have been on rides with two people who both needed hospital treatment - one had a broken bone - after cliplesss moments.
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T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #80 on: 04 November, 2020, 08:07:42 am »
An alternative which is not strictly legal, (but far better than nothing) is to use yellow reflexite sheeting in place of pedal reflectors.  This can either be stuck to the pedal body or mounted within the jaw structure of SPDs. 

That.  French law at least specifies orange catadioptric reflectors mounted on the pedals without saying that they have to be visible from behind, so I have a strip of reflective tape on the side of the pedal.  At least I did: I haven't looked lately.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #81 on: 04 November, 2020, 08:31:08 am »
I just use an SM-PD22 reflector clipped into one side of each PD-M520 SPD pedal.  This even gives you a fairly rubbish flat pedal as well.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #82 on: 04 November, 2020, 09:55:31 am »
I just use reflective tape on the heel of my cycling shoes. If I'm wearing civvy shoes, I'm unlikely to be riding at night out of town.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #83 on: 04 November, 2020, 11:47:10 am »
Plus some more recent models. eg the PD-A600 or PD-ES600. Shimano say they are designed for road / touring etc, equivalent to Ultegra.


The big problem with a lot of clipless pedals, and a fair few flats these days tbf, is they don't have an obvious or easy way to attach reflectors. A lot of jurisdictions have a requirement for pedal reflectors. Sure you'd have to be having a really bad day to be nicked for not having pedal reflectors, but still, in event of an accident, a not completely 100% road legal bike could cause you liability issues down the line.

It's one of the things I like about my M324's, they take normal pedal reflectors, with ease.

I have those clip-on platform things on my hybrid (which probably does the most dark urban riding), because that meant I could continue to use a set of M520s with a broken mechanism on one side.  They're fairly rubbish as platforms (they do work for keeping pedalling with your SPD shoe unclipped on the towpath on approach to wandering dogs), but the reflectors do an admirable job of staying attached.

My mountain bike has double-sided SPDs for being able to clip in quickly reasons, which precludes reflectors.  I have QRD pedals for the Brompton, and the flats have reflectors, but I tend to use the SPDs more.  On both these bikes I've stuck Scotchlite on the crank arm on the basis of complying with the spirit, if not the letter, of the law.

On the recumbents reflectors are academic (like panniers, you can't legally use a recumbent after dark), though I have covered the underside of the single-sided Look pedals with Scotchlite, because there's no good reason not to.  I'm not sure how visible they are that close to the front light, though.


From experience of spotting cyclists on the road, both as a cycist/pedestrian and driver, I reckon the value of pedal reflectors is mostly that they're the one rear-facing reflector still attached to unlit BSOs.  As soon as the cyclist is properly lit, they don't really achieve much, other than marking those distant light sources as 'pedal cycle' (which can also be achieved by flashing lights or distinctive patterns of reflectives such as those on clothing or Ortlieb panniers).

So in practical terms, I don't worry about them from a safety perspective.  In the unlikely case that someone tries to argue the contributory negligence angle after a collision, I reckon having good lights is a pretty strong counter argument, but ultimately it's the lack of helmet that will carry more weight.

ian

Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #84 on: 04 November, 2020, 12:16:45 pm »
I confess that I find pedal reflectors fairly distinctive when we're driving about in the dark. Variable constellations of rear bicycle lights might be noticeable, but the turn of pedal reflectors shouts 'cyclist.'

I used to have the combo pedals (spd on one side, flat on the other). They were OK when I occasionally fancied clipping in, but ultimately too much faff flipping them around when I was down to the single pair of spd shoes and I wasn't going to buy any more.

I forgot the time I got stuck and had to ride all the way to Beckenham trying to extricate myself. I didn't live in Beckenham. A screw had come loose. Tbh, I'm surprised I didn't fall off a lot more than I did.

Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #85 on: 04 November, 2020, 01:13:58 pm »
I put reflective tape on the edges of my (flat) pedals. And on the heels of my shoes.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #86 on: 04 November, 2020, 04:36:21 pm »
i like having flat pedals on my runabout bike, they work ok with various casual shoes. occasionally (like today) i experience shin-pedal interaction, but no big deal :).


Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #87 on: 04 November, 2020, 09:06:43 pm »
reflectors are indeed a problem with many SPDs

IME conventional reflectors only last reasonably well if they are mounted in recesses in the pedal body.
I use PT-T780, which have just such slightly recessed reflectors. The reflectors have lasted longer than the clip mechanism (wore sufficiently to allow inadvertent release)
The current version is the PD-T8000, with added shin-biting studs on the flat side. The reflectors are also replaceable, should you manage to get hold of any.

Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #88 on: 04 November, 2020, 10:02:55 pm »
...I use PT-T780, which have just such slightly recessed reflectors. The reflectors have lasted longer than the clip mechanism (wore sufficiently to allow inadvertent release)….

FWIW it is usually possible to grind a small portion of the 'Jaw Stopper' away and thus restore the jaw opening to the 'as new' dimension.  You can't do this indefinitely though; the rear jaw gets more and more inclined.

cheers

Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #89 on: 04 November, 2020, 11:35:35 pm »
SHIMANO PD-T400 , what's not to like? ClickR easy in / easy out, double sided, in-built completely integrated reflectors front & back, nice platform, not too heavy or expensive, I think mine are still going good after 10 years and over 100+ Audax rides, 40,000+kms

https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-PD-T400-CLICKR-Clipless-Pedals/dp/B008VQCWUQ

Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #90 on: 05 November, 2020, 12:20:03 am »
PD-T400 dates from about 2013.

Like other click'r pedals it lacks the ramp which forces the cleat up and out of the pedal when you twist to release



which PD-M520s (and others) have (the ramp is also the 'jaw stopper' in PD-M520)



I've not used click'rs in the long term but I have used other SPD-like pedals with no ramp and they were fine at first, but once the cleat became worn at the back (with a groove where the rear jaw sits) the release was often poor; eventually I realised it was only a matter of time till I had a stupid accident because my foot wasn't coming out of the pedal.  The same worn cleats released fine in pedals with ramps.

Does the click'r arrangement ever inhibit release when the cleats are worn?  Has anyone used SM-SH51 cleats in those pedals?

FWIW PD-M520 and other SPDs with 'open' type bindings have just one ramp and release properly when the foot is turned outwards. Earlier SPDs with 'platform' type bindings have two ramps  and these pedals release well whether the foot is turned inwards or outwards.

cheers

Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #91 on: 05 November, 2020, 12:56:16 am »
I have used SH51 with the T400 and not noticed any difference, I have also been guilty of using SH51 and SH56 for years and years, again without noticing any decline in function although I do now try to replace them sooner. Have also used several other types of SPD pedals and they all feel the same to me, love them all but prefer the T400

Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #92 on: 05 November, 2020, 01:40:58 am »
FWIW it is usually possible to grind a small portion of the 'Jaw Stopper' away and thus restore the jaw opening to the 'as new' dimension.  You can't do this indefinitely though; the rear jaw gets more and more inclined.
I shan't bother.
They are allen key fitting only, and reasonably well seized on to a set of cranks of which the RH crank arm is bent enough that it's unpleasant to use - i.e the pedal spindle is now about 5° off parallel to the BB axle (argument with car).
Besides that, the obvious wear is to the front non-moving jaw, in ab off-centre manner.

Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #93 on: 05 November, 2020, 08:09:09 am »
M520s belong in some museum of design.

They are a great triumph of engineering. Functional, durable; and in a world where decent products are deprecated in favour of New! Shiny!, they continue to be manufactured.

How long have they been in production? It must be something like 15 years.
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T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #94 on: 05 November, 2020, 08:20:41 am »
M520s belong in some museum of design.

They are a great triumph of engineering. Functional, durable; and in a world where decent products are deprecated in favour of New! Shiny!, they continue to be manufactured.

How long have they been in production? It must be something like 15 years.

Long enough for there to be low-cost knock-offs out there.  I switched to them in 2006 or 2007, and they'd been about for a good while already.

ETA: According to Wiki the first double-siders go back to 1990: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimano_Pedaling_Dynamics

I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #95 on: 05 November, 2020, 10:22:25 am »
IIRC the date on PD-M737 EV techdoc is early 1991.  PD-M520 dates from nearly 20 years ago now.

cheers

Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #96 on: 05 November, 2020, 10:29:29 am »

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #97 on: 05 November, 2020, 11:41:45 am »
Surprised to read about wear in the Click'r design. I thought the whole point of them was that they have easier release than conventional SPDs? I haven't actually used them so can't say.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #98 on: 05 November, 2020, 05:09:26 pm »
IIRC the click'r design has a much softer spring in it, such that the upper half of the tension range corresponds roughly with the lower half of the tension range in a standard SPD. Maybe this (and using SM-SH56 cleats) makes the release 'easy'? 

  It is also possible that not everyone wears cleats (so that they end up with a groove in the back) like I do...?

cheers

Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #99 on: 19 November, 2020, 01:28:13 pm »
I ve been meaning to thank you all for your advice on this.

So , I changed the cleats,  followed QGs advice on  pedals , and I can report that I do now get on  with clipless.

Entry and exit is easy and the wider platform of the M324 make me feel more secure and in control

However, all  is  still not well.  As I wear orthotics and have wide feet I usually go up a size in shoes. ie and 43/44 not a 42.  Which means I can't get the cleat as far back as I would like.  Certainly, not as far back as Steve Hogg would suggest I should

The effect of this is , I think peroneal tendonitis, in my right foot.  My ankle still aches  after an hour's ride this morning. The answer, may be wider shoes in a smaller size  to bring the cleat position further back, but also a return to flats and toe clips.