Author Topic: the food rant thread  (Read 230271 times)

ian

Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #625 on: 04 September, 2015, 06:16:08 pm »
ps the freckled people are the chosen ones. Don't eat them. Your God will be displeased and her wrath mighty. Ish.

In fact that's what I'm calling my god: Ish. I'm inventing a religion right now.

Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #626 on: 04 September, 2015, 06:36:21 pm »
ps the freckled people are the chosen ones. Don't eat them. Your God will be displeased and her wrath mighty. Ish.

In fact that's what I'm calling my god: Ish. I'm inventing a religion right now.
Shouldn't this post be in the 'what are you drinking right now' thread? Or even the 'what on earth have you been drinking' one?

 ;) ;)
"No matter how slow you go, you're still lapping everybody on the couch."

Mrs Pingu

  • Who ate all the pies? Me
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Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #627 on: 04 September, 2015, 07:19:00 pm »
I am currently eating some beer (IPA) flavour pickles to get me in the mood for pub o'clock. They're very good. Brooklyn Brine apparently, for some reason in M&S. Kosher. I presume there's a lot in Judaism about pickles. God, it would seem, is never without a jar of pickle to snack on. If you're shopping around a religion and you like hats and pickles, it seems the most natural home. Maybe I should start my own religion that's just about hats and pickles, and no other baggage.

Oh and freckles. I like freckles.

I saw those IPA pickles a while ago, are they *really* that good?
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

menthel

  • Jim is my real, actual name
Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #628 on: 04 September, 2015, 07:56:46 pm »
Some idiot forgot to put the pie funnel in the pie. Gah!

contango

  • NB have not grown beard since photo was taken
  • The Fat And The Furious
Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #629 on: 04 September, 2015, 08:54:53 pm »
Oh my little furry pawed friend, I think we all appreciate that mobility scooters are an essential mobility aid, and indeed, people do have issues that lead to weight gain and they can certainly conflate. They let the old and infirm enjoy a level of independence that they wouldn't otherwise. I've not been deathed by mobility scooting pavement pigs yet, despite being promised that this very fate awaited me. Gurning grannies with kamikaze intent. Fortunately, my local municipality took steps to prevent this by ensuring there's not enough space left on the pavement for those scooters. Let the infirm stay at home where they're not taking up people's parking. Is it not bad enough that these bloody disabled already get the best parking spaces? I don't see why I should have to park my Q7 two rows away from the supermarket door.

That said, some people do seem to have fallen into the bottomless pit of fries and appear to be trying to eat their way out. I'm not sure that as a society we should keep making the excuses, obesity is something that needs to be addressed, and it can't be with the message that it's all OK and your weight is out of your control on the grounds that it might offend the minority for whom it genuinely isn't. And it's not a case of yelling 'hey fatty' but dealing with it constructively and providing an environment where our health and wellbeing becomes something that we control for ourselves. I think we've lost that. They Americans might have already jumped the shark (or tried and flattened that once frisky selachimorph) on the issue but we could at least try.

That is the big thing here (pun only kinda-sorta intended).

Of course we don't know whether the mobility issue caused the weight gain or the weight gain caused the mobility issue. But either way, if you're not moving about much and you're already so far into the "morbidly obese" category that you could lose half your body weight and still be morbidly obese, eating your own weight in popcorn and fried food doesn't seem like a particularly clever thing to do.

In the land where you can get a 64oz soda with your fast food, and then fill it up again for the road at no extra cost, it's hardly surprising that people gain weight. The flipside, of course, is that nobody is forced to drink a 64oz soda at gunpoint, and (speaking as a fat person myself) getting fat is almost invariably the result of a long term pattern of eating more calories than your body needs.
Always carry a small flask of whisky in case of snakebite. And, furthermore, always carry a small snake.

Ruthie

  • Her Majester
Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #630 on: 04 September, 2015, 09:04:20 pm »
Oh my little furry pawed friend, I think we all appreciate that mobility scooters are an essential mobility aid, and indeed, people do have issues that lead to weight gain and they can certainly conflate. They let the old and infirm enjoy a level of independence that they wouldn't otherwise. I've not been deathed by mobility scooting pavement pigs yet, despite being promised that this very fate awaited me. Gurning grannies with kamikaze intent. Fortunately, my local municipality took steps to prevent this by ensuring there's not enough space left on the pavement for those scooters. Let the infirm stay at home where they're not taking up people's parking. Is it not bad enough that these bloody disabled already get the best parking spaces? I don't see why I should have to park my Q7 two rows away from the supermarket door.

That said, some people do seem to have fallen into the bottomless pit of fries and appear to be trying to eat their way out. I'm not sure that as a society we should keep making the excuses, obesity is something that needs to be addressed, and it can't be with the message that it's all OK and your weight is out of your control on the grounds that it might offend the minority for whom it genuinely isn't. And it's not a case of yelling 'hey fatty' but dealing with it constructively and providing an environment where our health and wellbeing becomes something that we control for ourselves. I think we've lost that. They Americans might have already jumped the shark (or tried and flattened that once frisky selachimorph) on the issue but we could at least try.

That is the big thing here (pun only kinda-sorta intended).

Of course we don't know whether the mobility issue caused the weight gain or the weight gain caused the mobility issue. But either way, if you're not moving about much and you're already so far into the "morbidly obese" category that you could lose half your body weight and still be morbidly obese, eating your own weight in popcorn and fried food doesn't seem like a particularly clever thing to do.

In the land where you can get a 64oz soda with your fast food, and then fill it up again for the road at no extra cost, it's hardly surprising that people gain weight. The flipside, of course, is that nobody is forced to drink a 64oz soda at gunpoint, and (speaking as a fat person myself) getting fat is almost invariably the result of a long term pattern of eating more calories than your body needs.

Because it's a dead simple, easy issue really, and fat people must like being fat, otherwise why would they choose to be fat?  Because, given the choice, wouldn't we all rather be fat and then get sneered at and demonised?  Nobody forces that first fairy cake down their neck.  They're fat because they want to be fat, and they choose to be fat. 

 :facepalm:



Milk please, no sugar.

fuzzy

Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #631 on: 04 September, 2015, 09:26:59 pm »
ps the freckled people are the chosen ones. Don't eat them. Your God will be displeased and her wrath mighty. Ish.

In fact that's what I'm calling my god: Ish. I'm inventing a religion right now.

So, are deciples Ishists?

Ruthie

  • Her Majester
Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #632 on: 04 September, 2015, 09:30:45 pm »
Sorry, that probly was a bit ranty, but the fact is, nobody wants to be fat.  Being fat is rubbish.  I hate being fat, and I'm only quite fat, not very fat.  If you're very fat, or very very fat, then that's very very rubbish.  Nobody wants to be as fat as that.

It's just much harder to eat real food in sensible quantities these days, because we've got 'food' pushed at us from every quarter, and our culture is built around 'food', rather than nourishment for daily living.

I think you can be addicted to food, in the same way as alcohol.  Eating too much of certain foods gives you an addictive rush and you get caught in a spiral of addictive eating that's incredibly difficult to get out of.  We're surrounded by addictive foods that press all the WOW!!! buttons in our brains (which are hardwired for times of scarcity), and people make massive profits out of those foods, and meanwhile we're deskilled in eating simply and wholesomely, and our bodies don't even recognise real hunger any more, and food means so much  more than nourishment.  It means family, and sociability, and love, and control, and guilt, and lack of control, and weakness, and discipline, and glamour, and it's a great way to drown negative emotions, drowning them in nasty cheap chocolate and pies, for the same reason people drink alcohol to numb the pain.

It's not simple!  Look at a fat person.  Do they like being fat?  If the answer was simple, do you think they'd still be fat?
Milk please, no sugar.

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #633 on: 04 September, 2015, 09:49:13 pm »
But either way, if you're not moving about much and you're already so far into the "morbidly obese" category that you could lose half your body weight and still be morbidly obese, eating your own weight in popcorn and fried food doesn't seem like a particularly clever thing to do.

*does some calculations*

Wah-hey!  Not half, a mere nearly-40%.  Bring on the popcorn and chips.

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #634 on: 04 September, 2015, 09:55:56 pm »
The cheapest food is often the worst food. There are links between poverty and fatness and mental health too.

Poverty and other correlating circumstances notwithstanding, the chances are if you have an eating disorder which manifests as being as very fat you will probably struggle to get the specialist mental health care that you need.  And it is specialist and delicate care that's needed not judgement and adding to the problems.

Once you're fat it is very hard to lose that weight cos biology and complicatedness happens and the chances are you get yelled at and abused in the street - double it if you are female and or black.  Again all feeding into other vicious circles.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #635 on: 04 September, 2015, 09:57:41 pm »
Sorry, that probly was a bit ranty, but the fact is, nobody wants to be fat.  Being fat is rubbish.  I hate being fat, and I'm only quite fat, not very fat.  If you're very fat, or very very fat, then that's very very rubbish.  Nobody wants to be as fat as that.

It's just much harder to eat real food in sensible quantities these days, because we've got 'food' pushed at us from every quarter, and our culture is built around 'food', rather than nourishment for daily living.

I think you can be addicted to food, in the same way as alcohol.  Eating too much of certain foods gives you an addictive rush and you get caught in a spiral of addictive eating that's incredibly difficult to get out of.  We're surrounded by addictive foods that press all the WOW!!! buttons in our brains (which are hardwired for times of scarcity), and people make massive profits out of those foods, and meanwhile we're deskilled in eating simply and wholesomely, and our bodies don't even recognise real hunger any more, and food means so much  more than nourishment.  It means family, and sociability, and love, and control, and guilt, and lack of control, and weakness, and discipline, and glamour, and it's a great way to drown negative emotions, drowning them in nasty cheap chocolate and pies, for the same reason people drink alcohol to numb the pain.

It's not simple!  Look at a fat person.  Do they like being fat?  If the answer was simple, do you think they'd still be fat?
Yeah it did seem a bit ranty but... your second and third paras are putting some detail on what Contango and ian were saying earlier. That we need to stop making excuses as a society and look at things like the easy availability of 64oz sodas.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #636 on: 04 September, 2015, 10:00:11 pm »
We could also think about working on causes of poor mental health, poverty etc!  It's not just as simple as "the food is there", it is as much about the complexities of why.  Judgement just doesn't help.

Ruthie

  • Her Majester
Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #637 on: 04 September, 2015, 10:04:20 pm »
Sorry, that probly was a bit ranty, but the fact is, nobody wants to be fat.  Being fat is rubbish.  I hate being fat, and I'm only quite fat, not very fat.  If you're very fat, or very very fat, then that's very very rubbish.  Nobody wants to be as fat as that.

It's just much harder to eat real food in sensible quantities these days, because we've got 'food' pushed at us from every quarter, and our culture is built around 'food', rather than nourishment for daily living.

I think you can be addicted to food, in the same way as alcohol.  Eating too much of certain foods gives you an addictive rush and you get caught in a spiral of addictive eating that's incredibly difficult to get out of.  We're surrounded by addictive foods that press all the WOW!!! buttons in our brains (which are hardwired for times of scarcity), and people make massive profits out of those foods, and meanwhile we're deskilled in eating simply and wholesomely, and our bodies don't even recognise real hunger any more, and food means so much  more than nourishment.  It means family, and sociability, and love, and control, and guilt, and lack of control, and weakness, and discipline, and glamour, and it's a great way to drown negative emotions, drowning them in nasty cheap chocolate and pies, for the same reason people drink alcohol to numb the pain.

It's not simple!  Look at a fat person.  Do they like being fat?  If the answer was simple, do you think they'd still be fat?
Yeah it did seem a bit ranty but... your second and third paras are putting some detail on what Contango and ian were saying earlier. That we need to stop making excuses as a society and look at things like the easy availability of 64oz sodas.

Yes.  And to examine the ethics of making a profit out of deadly substances like hydrogenated vegetable oils and high fructose syrup and nicotine.  When profit is the only measure of success the world goes mad.  I finished reading 'The Impulse Society' the other day, which added much perspective, and when you look at people digging their grave with their fork, you have to wonder, Who's the one making money out of this?

Because when you walk around town, and look at the people around you, fat people aren't old, and old people aren't fat.  It's as serious as that.  And what's more you get blamed for being the way you hate being.
Milk please, no sugar.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #638 on: 04 September, 2015, 10:23:05 pm »
The cheapest food is often the worst food. There are links between poverty and fatness and mental health too.

Indeed. My 'diet' of steak, salad and strawberries (I do eat other things, actually) is not cheap but seems to result in slow weight loss.

Bread and jam is cheaper...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #639 on: 04 September, 2015, 10:30:02 pm »
Ian's made several posts in this and other threads to the effect that people are becoming dangerously fatter and that we seem to accept this and part of the acceptance of fatter society is acceptance of individuals' fatness. And every time someone jumps back with "You're blaming me for being fat!" But he's really (I think) blaming us as a society for not caring about their fatness. I think he actually once said "It's not about the individual" it's about cumulative effect of all those individuals.

Apart from that, yes profit is of course a big factor. Greed for money and greed for food, all greed.
We could also think about working on causes of poor mental health, poverty etc!  It's not just as simple as "the food is there", it is as much about the complexities of why.  Judgement just doesn't help.
I read somewhere that 1 in 4 people suffer mental illness at some point in their lives, but it sometimes seems to me that probably 3/4 of us are "mentally not as well as we could be" most of the time (and that that has an expression in poor physical health, among other stuff).
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #640 on: 04 September, 2015, 10:37:41 pm »
After 'We Want Plates', I WANT A BOWL!

Partner and I just had desserts at a Table Table (Whitbread Premier Inn) restaurant. I had a sticky toffee pudding & custard while he had a bread and butter pudding & custard. Both puddings were served on small, flat square plates, with the custard in a separate gravy boat. It would have been better to serve these in bowls.

OTOH my salmon and David's dad's lamb shank, came in HUGE bowls. I can't be alone finding deep bowls awkward when using a knife and fork...

Pingu

  • Put away those fiery biscuits!
  • Mrs Pingu's domestique
    • the Igloo
Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #641 on: 05 September, 2015, 12:03:24 am »
ps the freckled people are the chosen ones.

:thumbsup: We just don't know what we've been chosen for  :-[

Pingu

  • Put away those fiery biscuits!
  • Mrs Pingu's domestique
    • the Igloo
Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #642 on: 05 September, 2015, 12:04:01 am »
Oh and freckles. I like freckles.

 :-*

Tigerrr

  • That England that was wont to conquer others Hath made a shameful conquest of itself.
  • Not really a Tiger.
    • Humanist Celebrant.
Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #643 on: 05 September, 2015, 07:20:38 am »
BTW, those polish jars of cured pork, with garlic etc are so lovely they should be illegal.
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Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #644 on: 05 September, 2015, 07:30:01 pm »

It's not simple!  Look at a fat person.  Do they like being fat?  If the answer was simple, do you think they'd still be fat?

You're looking at it from a UK perspective. Like you I'm a bit fat.  But I've seen on TV a U.S woman using a mobility scooter inside her home because she was so fat she couldn't walk bake a huge lasagne fully intending to eat the same. They really don't seem to care.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

ian

Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #645 on: 05 September, 2015, 08:38:46 pm »
As the prophet of Ish, she's been communicating on such matters. Regarding the freckles, she's quite keen to point out that come judgement day (which will probably be a Wednesday sometime) she's perfectly fine if you add your own with a marker pen. She'll ensure there's a supply handy. Probably. She's bit vague on the entire logistics of judgement day thing. She's likely going to wing it.

ian

Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #646 on: 05 September, 2015, 09:00:26 pm »
Just by-the-by, but not one is 'blaming' people for being fat. But really, if you're fat then the only person who can change that is yourself. As both individuals and a society we have to accept that. Sure, there are many culprits and reasons, but if we hide behind excuses, create an environment where everything else is to blame, then there's no reason for anyone to shoulder that responsibility for their own health. Things will only get worse. And yes, we need a proper public health initiative that brings everything to the table. I'm not optimistic that any current flavour of government will step up to that, not when it involves everything from urban planning to diet. But that's not an excuse, if you're not happy with the way you are, then you're the only person who can change that. It has to start with the individual.

ian

Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #647 on: 06 September, 2015, 12:12:51 pm »
I am currently eating some beer (IPA) flavour pickles to get me in the mood for pub o'clock. They're very good. Brooklyn Brine apparently, for some reason in M&S. Kosher. I presume there's a lot in Judaism about pickles. God, it would seem, is never without a jar of pickle to snack on. If you're shopping around a religion and you like hats and pickles, it seems the most natural home. Maybe I should start my own religion that's just about hats and pickles, and no other baggage.

Oh and freckles. I like freckles.

I saw those IPA pickles a while ago, are they *really* that good?

I like them. They're not actually boozy and the taste is subtle and unlike some pickles not too heavy on the sweet. I prefer briny pickles to vinegar (what in the history Ishism is known as the Pickle Schism). I finished them off on a chicken burger last night and they were perfect. Mind you, they're £5 a jar and don't last very long if you're a prime pickle snaffler like me. I washed them down with this. Seriously, I've not had a better meal in a long time. Shove that up your apron, A list cheffery.

ian

Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #648 on: 08 September, 2015, 12:52:18 pm »
I bought another three jars. I'm offsetting my lack of freckles with pickles. Ish's favour is capricious, best to hedge your bets. There might be no marker pens come judgement day. Offer her a long history of pickle consumption a few jars of something favourable, the door might be left open. Too late to realise you only have an out-of-date jar of cornichons.

I'm never convinced pickles go out of date. They're pickled. That's the point. It's like sell-by-dates on cheese. It's cheese. It's off by definition.

Mind you, I applied that logic to a tub of creme fraiche that had been idling long enough in the fridge to need a hobby. I tasted a bit because science. Oh my. There's off and there's off. That's a taste you don't want hugging your tongue, like I'd frenchied a tramp. I imagine. I draw the line at a chaste peck on the cheek. In future, I'm going for animal testing and letting the cats judge the dubiousness of out-of-date dairy products.

contango

  • NB have not grown beard since photo was taken
  • The Fat And The Furious
Re: the food rant thread
« Reply #649 on: 08 September, 2015, 10:26:34 pm »
Just by-the-by, but not one is 'blaming' people for being fat. But really, if you're fat then the only person who can change that is yourself. As both individuals and a society we have to accept that. Sure, there are many culprits and reasons, but if we hide behind excuses, create an environment where everything else is to blame, then there's no reason for anyone to shoulder that responsibility for their own health. Things will only get worse. And yes, we need a proper public health initiative that brings everything to the table. I'm not optimistic that any current flavour of government will step up to that, not when it involves everything from urban planning to diet. But that's not an excuse, if you're not happy with the way you are, then you're the only person who can change that. It has to start with the individual.

Wow, my comment about fat people triggered a bit of a wave of posts.

Truth be told in many ways the only people to blame for being fat are the fat people. And, to be clear, I write as a fat person myself. As someone (I think ian) said earlier there are fat people in the UK but they take it to a whole new level in the USA.

In the UK when my weight went somewhere over 20 stone (once the scale read more than 280 I stopped weighing myself because I didn't like the news the scale gave me) I started to find it harder to find clothes that fit me. I needed formal trousers for work and as soon as I reached a point where a 42" waist was too tight I struggled to find anything suitable with a 44" waist. That was something of a wake-up call that it was time to shed a bit of weight. Whose fault was it that I was fat? Mine, and mine alone. Nobody forced me to eat chocolate and cake, nobody prevented me from going out and exercising. I chose both courses of action.

When I was the wrong side of 20 stone I could still visit the US and feel positively slim by comparison to some of the folks here. On another cycling forum I used a while back there were people who had lost 200+ pounds and were still overweight. Seriously, think what someone who weighs 18 stone looks like, and then picture somebody literally twice that weight. Some people get heavier than that. Of course here there isn't the wake-up call of not being able to find clothes that fit - it doesn't seem to be an issue if you want jeans with a 58" waist.

Up to a point it's true to say that in food terms the junk is the cheapest. But the example I used was at a fair, where somebody who was practically spherical was eating a jumbo size bag of popcorn and the biggest ice cream I'd seen in a long time. This is fair food we're talking about, and if money is tight you don't eat fair food. You know, you can buy two jumbo family size packs of double-stuf Oreos for $6, or you can buy five deep-fried Oreos for $5. So while that argument may hold some water in general it doesn't work to say that poor people lack the choices, when the clearly do have the choice to not pay through the nose for junk at the fair.

Even then in many ways it's too easy to make excuses and blame Someone Else for the choices I made. When I was at my fattest (and I'm not exactly a featherweight now) I could come up with all sorts of reasons why I didn't eat more healthily and why I didn't exercise. But the fact is that I made choices, and those choices had consequences. Ruthie mentioned the question of whether fat people like being fat, and in my case the answer was definitely no. But the flipside to the answer is that I didn't dislike being fat enough to do anything about it. Did I want to be thinner than I was? Oh yes. Did I want to make the lifestyle changes to make it happen? Obviously not at the time, or I would have made them. And there's the kicker, in more ways than one I wanted to have my cake and eat it. It's no good whinging saying "I don't want to be fat any more" unless you're going to take steps to change things.

Naturally people with mobility issues don't have the same choices the rest of us do when it comes to how much exercise to take. I can choose to go for a long hike in the way a wheelchair user just can't, and it's not as if most wheelchair users can suddenly decide that they're sick of being unable to walk any distance and changing their predicament. But even though that represents a lack of choice, the choice of what goes in their mouth is still the same.

I know very well how gaining weight makes exercise appear less and less desirable. When you're sufficiently fat and unfit that going up the stairs seems like an effort it does take a degree of willpower to break the cycle. But instead of blaming anyone and everyone else for their predicament the only solution is to do something about it. Nobody else can eat less for you, nobody else can exercise for you, so the obvious thing to do is make small changes that add up. Someone doesn't get to be 500+ pounds in a week so they won't go back to being 180 pounds in a week but every time they get to Saturday weighing less than they did the previous Sunday they make progress.
Always carry a small flask of whisky in case of snakebite. And, furthermore, always carry a small snake.