When does "Art" cease to be "Art"?

[Ham]

For me, something is art when it is:
1) intended to be art
2) communicates something to me

The communication does not have to be pleasurable, emotional, or in fact make any sense whatsoever. If it has an impact on me, it is significant. It 'works' as a piece of art, whether I enjoy it or not.

But of course, something that has an impact one day, may not the next (or, vice versa). Or it might not have an impact when you view from one side, but does from another. Does the thing start and stop being art or just start and stop being art to you?

[Cudzoziemiec]

A medieval illuminated manuscript might be viewed as art today but to the monk who drew it a thousand years ago, it was primarily a store of information (legal document, the Word of God, etc). Nevertheless, he undoubtedly put a lot of effort into making it look as good as he could, so he was also treating it as a work of art. And today it's not just a work of art, it's still a source of information for the historian.

[Exit Stage Left]

There's an optimum place to be to view this piece. Where it all lines up. The artist says that he holds the opposite view.

Varini argues that the work exists as a whole - with its complete shape as well as the fragments. “My concern,” he says “is what happens outside the vantage point of view.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felice_Varini


I'd want to see the piece line up, so it draws me to Carcassonne. I assume that's why it's been commissioned. So to me it's not when in this case, it's where. The piece exists at one point, but ripples out from that point. Am I experiencing the piece as art, or as a commercial for Carcassonne? 

[Jurek]

A fan of the castle here.
I'm firmly of the view that Buck House would be immeasurably improved with the application of some zebra stripes.
You know, art deco like, but with a twist.
Perhaps in red and green.
As it is, the building looks shit.

ETA - They must've had a massively powerful projector to do that castle. It isn't actually that difficult to do - if you have one of those and a couple of cherry pickers.
Once you've done the outlines, you can turn the projector off, and (when it has cooled down) send it back to whoever you rented it from.

ETFA - TBF I speak as someone who executes this kind of stuff as part of his day job, albeit much less so these days  than 20 years ago. My angle on it is more 'This is what they want. How the f*ck are we going to do it?' rather than 'Is this art?'

[Ben T]

For me, something is art when it is:
1) intended to be art
2) communicates something to me

The communication does not have to be pleasurable, emotional, or in fact make any sense whatsoever. If it has an impact on me, it is significant. It 'works' as a piece of art, whether I enjoy it or not.

This post is art. I intend it to be art, and it's communicating to you the fact that I intend it to be art.   

[Kim]

ETA - They must've had a massively powerful projector to do that castle. It isn't actually that difficult to do - if you have one of those and a couple of cherry pickers.
Once you've done the outlines, you can turn the projector off, and (when it has cooled down) send it back to whoever you rented it from.

Given that it's concentric circles, how about one of those disco laser things?

[Jurek]

ETA - They must've had a massively powerful projector to do that castle. It isn't actually that difficult to do - if you have one of those and a couple of cherry pickers.
Once you've done the outlines, you can turn the projector off, and (when it has cooled down) send it back to whoever you rented it from.

Given that it's concentric circles, how about one of those disco laser things?

Old fart here has no idea as to what you mean by disco laser thing.
I've been in discos where there were lasers.
I'm certain they helped me dance.
Despite what was reported in the local press.
I'm not sure how useful they might be here.

[ian]

I wrote a poem
earlier
about data
and the meta of it all
you might think it was
art
but really it
is just
sentences
brok
en
up

or perhaps that is just
ontology which should never
be confused for entomology
especially if you don't like
SPIDERS

except they're not insects
too many legs
like words
from Will Self

[Kim]

ETA - They must've had a massively powerful projector to do that castle. It isn't actually that difficult to do - if you have one of those and a couple of cherry pickers.
Once you've done the outlines, you can turn the projector off, and (when it has cooled down) send it back to whoever you rented it from.

Given that it's concentric circles, how about one of those disco laser things?

Old fart here has no idea as to what you mean by disco laser thing.
I've been in discos where there were lasers.
I'm certain they helped me dance.
Despite what was reported in the local press.
I'm not sure how useful they might be here.

Laser reflected off a couple of oscillating mirrors to project Spirograph patterns (ie. about the simplest thing you can do with a laser that doesn't allow it to dwell on any one point for long enough to cause eye damage), often varying the pattern in time with the music.  I reckon you could probably persuade one to do circles of different sizes, and it's bound to be a *lot* cheaper than a BFO projector.

ETA: I'm completely overthinking this.  All you need is a profile spot with an iris.

[Cunobelin]

The big problem for me is that it could so easily have been "Art" but left the Castle uncompromised for those who like the unadulterated article
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxjpUEuHGX8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxjpUEuHGX8</a>

[Jaded]

The problem is that the second photo is taken from the wrong place. Not much, but enough.

[Jurek]

The problem is that the second photo is taken from the wrong place. Not much, but enough.

Agreed.
Its a bit out of kilter.

[citoyen]

In fact, that can be (1) because my current (1) isn't actually necessary, as some Turners, Constables etc for example didn't actually require that much imagination, they're just a nice landscape scene - i.e. he didn't conceive it, it's just what he saw before him. But it sure took a lot of skill to create it, and is pleasing to look at.

That you choose Turner as an example to illustrate your point demonstrates the limits of your understanding. If you think Turner just painted "nice landscapes", you can't have spent very long looking at any Turner paintings.

[Ben T]

In fact, that can be (1) because my current (1) isn't actually necessary, as some Turners, Constables etc for example didn't actually require that much imagination, they're just a nice landscape scene - i.e. he didn't conceive it, it's just what he saw before him. But it sure took a lot of skill to create it, and is pleasing to look at.

That you choose Turner as an example to illustrate your point demonstrates the limits of your understanding. If you think Turner just painted "nice landscapes", you can't have spent very long looking at any Turner paintings.

In fact the first time I googled it he looked to have done a few nice galleons in storms but on closer examination they look a bit wishy washy... Constable's look better to me actually, looks like he's taken his time more and actually planned it.

We've got some lowrys in the lounge, they're pretty good - nice and clear, different again to  Turner. Nice and clear, you know - you can tell what it's meant to be , and it doesn't look like he's just swirled the brush  about to hide any mistakes.

[Croft]

I assume Ben T is a piece of performance art 

[Peter]

As well ask, "When does art start to be art?" 

[citoyen]

I assume Ben T is a piece of performance art 

I’ve often wondered the same.

[ian]

We should bring this back.

[nicknack]

Perhaps the first thing to do if you're bothered about the definition of what might be art is to ask yourself, "Why am I bothered?".
I'm not.

[T42]

I reckon that art ceases to be art when it becomes marketing, à la "if I do X the punters'll pay millions".

[Ben T]

I reckon that art ceases to be art when it becomes marketing, à la "if I do X the punters'll pay millions".

The fashion for art to try to stretch the definition of art and thus be as tenuous as possible stems from the desire to make afficionados feel exclusive. i.e. there's an imperative to make the cultured feel like they appreciate it, but the proles don't. Even if they actually don't, they can at least pretend to be like Jilly Goolden getting a sense of complex cocoa blossoms and coaly head.

[phantasmagoriana]

Perhaps the first thing to do if you're bothered about the definition of what might be art is to ask yourself, "Why am I bothered?".
I'm not.

Exactly.

[ian]

If you think it's art, it probably is art.

[LEE]

In fact, that can be (1) because my current (1) isn't actually necessary, as some Turners, Constables etc for example didn't actually require that much imagination, they're just a nice landscape scene - i.e. he didn't conceive it, it's just what he saw before him. But it sure took a lot of skill to create it, and is pleasing to look at.

That you choose Turner as an example to illustrate your point demonstrates the limits of your understanding. If you think Turner just painted "nice landscapes", you can't have spent very long looking at any Turner paintings.

...or listening to any of her big '80s hits

[citoyen]

In fact, that can be (1) because my current (1) isn't actually necessary, as some Turners, Constables etc for example didn't actually require that much imagination, they're just a nice landscape scene - i.e. he didn't conceive it, it's just what he saw before him. But it sure took a lot of skill to create it, and is pleasing to look at.

That you choose Turner as an example to illustrate your point demonstrates the limits of your understanding. If you think Turner just painted "nice landscapes", you can't have spent very long looking at any Turner paintings.

...or listening to any of her big '80s hits