Reflective soft shell performance kit

[bludger]

I'm having a cracking time riding for deliveroo but there's one serious downside - the jacket is very reflective but has all the breathability properties of a doubled-up bin bag.

Looking around online the competitor offerings from e.g. proviz seem to be more like "shiny rain jackets" than what I'm looking for - a long sleeve, soft shell, breathable tech product.

Any bright idea on what to consider would be appreciated. I have considered making my own by washing a long sleeve garment from decathlon or planet X in reflective detergent....

[Ben T]

Don't know, but watching with interest as would also like one of the same, preferably that is light/packable preferably into its own stuff sack.

Also interested in if there is any jacket that's mid way in weight between an endura packajac and a hummvee lite. With stuff sack and in a bright colour.

[trekker12]

Mrs Trekker has the Proviz jacket for commuting and it's brilliant in the dark but doesn't breathe.

The fully reflective Proviz type jackets are not very breathable. Something to do with the properties of the reflective material - hence your Deliveroo jacket problem which is probably made of similar, perhaps lower spec stuff.

For truly breathable you will spend £££££ and that will only have reflective strips but some of them are pretty good in the dark. Most that are marketed as breathable generally boil in the bag up to a certain price point but there's lots of threads about such jackets on here.

[bludger]

I have to say this one might be on the money.

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/900-hi-vis-warm-cycling-jacket-yellow-id_8369414.html

This is the same (terrific) jacket I already have (in ninja black) but now in ghastly yellow nasty with proviz-style reflective panels.

Comes in at £55, I've got it on my to-check-out list.

[JennyB]

I'm having a cracking time riding for deliveroo but there's one serious downside - the jacket is very reflective but has all the breathability properties of a doubled-up bin bag.

Looking around online the competitor offerings from e.g. proviz seem to be more like "shiny rain jackets" than what I'm looking for - a long sleeve, soft shell, breathable tech product.

Any bright idea on what to consider would be appreciated. I have considered making my own by washing a long sleeve garment from decathlon or planet X in reflective detergent....

Or you could just wear a cheap reflective vest over it.

[mattc]

Don't know, but watching with interest as would also like one of the same, preferably that is light/packable preferably into its own stuff sack.

And ...

 tough enough for use as a tyre boot.

Enough calories in case you twist an ankle and have to wait all night for the Heli-vac.

Perhaps a reversible red lining, in case of any toreador moments on the trail?

... I'm sure there are other things we could spec while we're at it!

[Ben T]

Mrs Trekker has the Proviz jacket for commuting and it's brilliant in the dark but doesn't breathe.

The fully reflective Proviz type jackets are not very breathable. Something to do with the properties of the reflective material - hence your Deliveroo jacket problem which is probably made of similar, perhaps lower spec stuff.

For truly breathable you will spend £££££ and that will only have reflective strips but some of them are pretty good in the dark. Most that are marketed as breathable generally boil in the bag up to a certain price point but there's lots of threads about such jackets on here.

I'd be happy without reflectives as long as it was a bright colour, but why oh why do high end jacket manufacturers insist on making them in black??

[bludger]

I'm having a cracking time riding for deliveroo but there's one serious downside - the jacket is very reflective but has all the breathability properties of a doubled-up bin bag.

Looking around online the competitor offerings from e.g. proviz seem to be more like "shiny rain jackets" than what I'm looking for - a long sleeve, soft shell, breathable tech product.

Any bright idea on what to consider would be appreciated. I have considered making my own by washing a long sleeve garment from decathlon or planet X in reflective detergent....

Or you could just wear a cheap reflective vest over it.

Yes but that looks gash. I ride bikes to look good and I look good to ride bikes.

[Kim]

I'd be happy without reflectives as long as it was a bright colour, but why oh why do high end jacket manufacturers insist on making them in black??

Because people like black and cycling is pretty safe whatever colour jacket you're wearing?

[zigzag]

black hides the dark spots you get from all the road spray in the winter

[Ben T]

I'd be happy without reflectives as long as it was a bright colour, but why oh why do high end jacket manufacturers insist on making them in black??

Because people like black and cycling is pretty safe whatever colour jacket you're wearing?

Without wanting to turn it into a hi viz debate, I have a possibly irrational perception of it being safer, but I want to cycle on unlit roads in the dark. A lot of kit isn't designed with that in mind (which isn't to say it's not suitable for it or 'shouldn't' be used for that, but personally consider bright colours more optimum).
Partly I don't want to dress in black because the only time I've been knocked off was due to being thought to be a motorcyclist (hence if I was going slowly I must be turning left, but I wasn't). So I like anything that adds to the 'obviously a cyclist' effect.
As a driver (or cyclist come to that ) I think i can judge the distance to a(nother) cyclist better if I can see their body and their light well, rather than just a point source of light.

I think it is true that
1) you are more visible in bright colours,
but what you can't say is
2) that that means you therefore will be seen, or
3) that you therefore 'should' wear bright colours or that you are not visible enough without them.
I only can't say (1) if deemed to be also implying (2) and/or (3), not because it isn't true.

[Paul H]

I'm having a cracking time riding for deliveroo but there's one serious downside - the jacket is very reflective but has all the breathability properties of a doubled-up bin bag.

Doesn't the backpack/box cover most of the jacket anyway?  From the front wrapping the straps in reflective ought to be enough, it they're not already.

[Kim]

I'd be happy without reflectives as long as it was a bright colour, but why oh why do high end jacket manufacturers insist on making them in black??

Because people like black and cycling is pretty safe whatever colour jacket you're wearing?

Without wanting to turn it into a hi viz debate, I have a possibly irrational perception of it being safer, but I want to cycle on unlit roads in the dark. A lot of kit isn't designed with that in mind (which isn't to say it's not suitable for it or 'shouldn't' be used for that, but personally consider bright colours more optimum).
Partly I don't want to dress in black because the only time I've been knocked off was due to being thought to be a motorcyclist (hence if I was going slowly I must be turning left, but I wasn't). So I like anything that adds to the 'obviously a cyclist' effect.
As a driver (or cyclist come to that ) I think i can judge the distance to a(nother) cyclist better if I can see their body and their light well, rather than just a point source of light.

I think it is true that
1) you are more visible in bright colours,
but what you can't say is
2) that that means you therefore will be seen, or
3) that you therefore 'should' wear bright colours or that you are not visible enough without them.
I only can't say (1) if deemed to be also implying (2) and/or (3), not because it isn't true.

I think there's an additional element of being *recognisable* (in this case as a human), for which having top and bottom half of your body in the same colour/pattern is likely to be advantageous.

Personally, I don't put too much thought into this stuff, as about half the time I'm on a recumbent which makes clothing visibility academic (it's mostly hidden by the seat from behind, by feet from in front, and the weirdness of the bike makes you more seeable anyway), and because I only actually wear a jacket when it's really cold or really wet.  My jacket is black/pink with copious reflective bits, and does a much better job of not looking manky when smeared with chain oil than my previous bright yellow one.  I do make an effort to make the *bike* visible with lights and reflectives, on the basis that I can then wear whatever I like.

Anyway, reflective material is good bike bling, and that's as good a reason as any for wanting some IMHO.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I think Kim's point about being (instantly) recognizable as a human is a good one, but I disagree that means having body and legs the same colour. That's not how we normally or always dress. We're mostly recognizable to each other as humans by our shape and our faces, not our colour. Anyway, I think wearing hi-viz, black or pink with spangles is a fashion choice, really.

As to the OP and the reflective kit, I do know several people who have this type of gear and I get the impression that none of it is breathable. Not even to, say, Altura Night Vision standard. AFAIK all of it (that people I know have, at least) is or claims some degree of waterproofness.

[quixoticgeek]

I'd be happy without reflectives as long as it was a bright colour, but why oh why do high end jacket manufacturers insist on making them in black??

Because hivi makes no difference, and I'd rather not cycle round looking like a builder...

I have a big red light on the back of my bike, a big white light on the front, reflectors on the pedals, reflectors on the side walls, 3 red reflectors on the rear, a white reflector to the front, and because of RatN, reflective tape on the chain stays and cranks. If a driver can't see me with that lot, there's no chance a yellow jacket is going to help me.

I predominantly cycle in Amsterdam, and I have to say, most of the time you're lucky if somone has a single half dead LED as their lighting, and yet the KSI numbers are stupid low.

Hivi is IMHO part of the victim blaming culture of modern British roads, and we'd all be better off if we stood up to this.

Just my €0.02.

J

[mattc]

I have no great desire for yellow or orange jackets, but sympathise a little with Ben - surely it can't cost Castelli/Rapha etc much more to offer a bright yellow option. Can it?

Choice should work both ways, ideally!

More hiviz stuff:

(click to show/hide)

I've noticed a club local to me actually has a camo colour scheme. And I saw quite a few riders at my Anfractuous control in camo patterns - is the tide turning?!?

As to the OP and the reflective kit, I do know several people who have this type of gear and I get the impression that none of it is breathable. Not even to, say, Altura Night Vision standard. AFAIK all of it (that people I know have, at least) is or claims some degree of waterproofness.

I suspect that the cheapest hi-viz materials are inherently waterproof!

[Kim]

I think Kim's point about being (instantly) recognizable as a human is a good one, but I disagree that means having body and legs the same colour. That's not how we normally or always dress. We're mostly recognizable to each other as humans by our shape and our faces, not our colour.

Shape can be manipulated by colour when one of the colours blends into the background, thobut.  Anyway, I don't think any of this really matters in the context of cycle safety, which is mostly down to flawed human drivers unreliably looking for cars.

[vorsprung]

I like the Craft or the Sportful gilets

The Craft one has a mesh back and although it has a snug fit (not flappy) it isn't tight

The Sportful is tight and has no mesh back but it's a good shape.  I used to have a black one with night reflectives on it

Neither have pockets but both have large reflective panels

[Kim]

I have no great desire for yellow or orange jackets, but sympathise a little with Ben - surely it can't cost Castelli/Rapha etc much more to offer a bright yellow option. Can it?

Choice should work both ways, ideally!

Choice is the antithesis of fashion, and clothing manufacturers tend to concern themselves with the latter.

#include trousers_rant.h

[sojournermike]

I have no great desire for yellow or orange jackets, but sympathise a little with Ben - surely it can't cost Castelli/Rapha etc much more to offer a bright yellow option. Can it?

Choice should work both ways, ideally!

More hiviz stuff:

(click to show/hide)

I've noticed a club local to me actually has a camo colour scheme. And I saw quite a few riders at my Anfractuous control in camo patterns - is the tide turning?!?

As to the OP and the reflective kit, I do know several people who have this type of gear and I get the impression that none of it is breathable. Not even to, say, Altura Night Vision standard. AFAIK all of it (that people I know have, at least) is or claims some degree of waterproofness.

I suspect that the cheapest hi-viz materials are inherently waterproof!

Castelli had a very bright and cheery orange in the Alpha Jacket last year, though there may be some black on the back. Suspect there's something bright this year too.

There's also an XL Expresso 3 in bright red in the For Sale section - not mine

[Cudzoziemiec]

The all-over reflective proviz-type materials are probably inherently waterproof, cos they're AIUI a surface layer of tiny titchy weeny glass.

[bludger]

I'm having a cracking time riding for deliveroo but there's one serious downside - the jacket is very reflective but has all the breathability properties of a doubled-up bin bag.

Doesn't the backpack/box cover most of the jacket anyway?  From the front wrapping the straps in reflective ought to be enough, it they're not already.

For the most part yes. However I think the customers like to see us "in uniform" as that way you seem to get more tips. Fundamentally I am carrying someone's dinner/hungover brunch and I do want to make an effort.

I completely agree re the hi vis "debate" by the way wear whatever you want to wear chaps.

[Ben T]

I'd be happy without reflectives as long as it was a bright colour, but why oh why do high end jacket manufacturers insist on making them in black??

Because hivi makes no difference, and I'd rather not cycle round looking like a builder...

I have a big red light on the back of my bike, a big white light on the front, reflectors on the pedals, reflectors on the side walls, 3 red reflectors on the rear, a white reflector to the front, and because of RatN, reflective tape on the chain stays and cranks. If a driver can't see me with that lot, there's no chance a yellow jacket is going to help me.

I predominantly cycle in Amsterdam, and I have to say, most of the time you're lucky if somone has a single half dead LED as their lighting, and yet the KSI numbers are stupid low.

Hivi is IMHO part of the victim blaming culture of modern British roads, and we'd all be better off if we stood up to this.

Just my €0.02.

J

You've actually almost highlighted it yourself, but you must see that you fail to address that - what might be good in a city is not necessarily the same as what might be good on an unlit dark road.
In a city your main danger is people being distracted by some other stimuli. You can't do much about that. On an unlit dark road the "danger" is other road users not being able to judge how far away you are, what you are, and how fast you are.
I personally want to do a little bit about that

(click to show/hide)

- but for the record I don't care what you think of my desire to improve my safety, whether you even think it is improving safety, whether anybody else also does it, and I also couldn't give a toss about whether you think I'm failing to adequately stand up for your rights by what colour I choose to wear.

In fact bright colours aren't anywhere near as good as reflectives at night, so it's as much a day time consideration as much as anything.

In fact when I think about it, I don't really think I'm in danger in black in the day time so I guess it's much a fashion/personal preference thing as much as anything - but I just don't like being dressed head to toe in black! Is that too much to ask?

[mzjo]

I always understood (although I have never experienced it not cycling in London) that one of the risks of hi-viz stuff and those flag things to add width (écarteurs in french, I can't remember what they are called in anglo-saxon, sorry) was that car driving yoofs could see you better which made you an easier target.

Cat used to get regularly hit by cars in spite of her hi-viz as a student in Oxford but she still lives there, still wears it and is still alive so it can't do that much harm. Her principal protection comes from riding very fast!

[quixoticgeek]

You've actually almost highlighted it yourself, but you must see that you fail to address that - what might be good in a city is not necessarily the same as what might be good on an unlit dark road.
In a city your main danger is people being distracted by some other stimuli. You can't do much about that. On an unlit dark road the "danger" is other road users not being able to judge how far away you are, what you are, and how fast you are.
I personally want to do a little bit about that

Whilst I am currently in Amsterdam, for 2 years I commuted to a college in rural Kent, down unlit country lanes. Everything I said I would hold there too. And I do plenty of rural riding these days too (yay for being an Audaxing Lantern Rouge...).

(click to show/hide)

- but for the record I don't care what you think of my desire to improve my safety, whether you even think it is improving safety, whether anybody else also does it, and I also couldn't give a toss about whether you think I'm failing to adequately stand up for your rights by what colour I choose to wear.

My objection comes from the fact that many cycle companies hear this and then only produce stuff in bright colours. It can be hard to find things in nice dark colours, and if you're female, it can be even harder, esp if you don't want PINK!

In fact bright colours aren't anywhere near as good as reflectives at night, so it's as much a day time consideration as much as anything.

In fact when I think about it, I don't really think I'm in danger in black in the day time so I guess it's much a fashion/personal preference thing as much as anything - but I just don't like being dressed head to toe in black! Is that too much to ask?

Yeah, at night, flourescents don't work, as they rely on Ultra violet to floures.

I don't want like being dressed head to toe in bright colours, is that too much to ask?

Unfortunately for many companies they seem to be able to offer you only BRIGHT, or only dark. And some companies will make a nice jersey in Black this year, and by the time you've worn it out the replacement is PINK or YELLOW.

It's a pet hate of mine. You'd think with modern manufacturing it would be easier to make things in a wider range, and offer better size options in them all too.

Anyway each unto their own.

J