too many waypoint labels (bikehike -> etrex vista)

[Euan Uzami]

Ok, followed a route created with bikehike today, and downloaded it straight from bikehike to my etrex vista. Problem was, there was too many labels 'pt 1', 'pt 2', etc. and the labels seem to clog up the screen.
i've gone for 'turn declutter on' and have also gone to the map menu, set up map, "map setup - text", and set all the text size for map points, user waypoints, and street label, to 'none'. But the 'pt 1, pt 2', etc. labels still appear to be there and in a village with lots of little roads going off they clutter it up too much.
Does anybody know a way round this?
thanks

[PloddinPedro]

I hope some knowledgable chap comes along to correct and educate me but I suspect we're stuck with this. I have an old Garmin Map60CSx and have just got an Edge 705 and they both suffer from this. I suspect the problem might be that the basic map data is supplied by Navteq (?) and is primarily designed for car sat-navs, which want detailed road names. On both my units the map screen is littered with "point of interest", small street and cul-de-sac names which are in bold upper case font and which overlay everything, village names and road lines alike. On yesterday's ride a critical road junction was completely obscured by "Hamperdown Golf Centre" right across the screen! If I turn on declutter, or in the Edge switch away from "Most" detail, they remain there - all that happens is that the road lines disappear at a lower zoom-out level, thus making it even harder to get an overview of where you're going.

I continually get the impression that the Garmin people just never use or test their own products - it's the only explanation as to why many aspects of these devices are just plain useless!

[Euan Uzami]

i suspect part of the solution might to ONLY HAVE as many route points as aren't going to cause clutter?

[Euan Uzami]

i've had a thought which i'm going to try on the way home:
when plotting the route, have it NOT in follow roads mode, because then bikehike automatically inserts as many way points as it thinks it needs to make the route follow the curve of the road.
and have as few as possible, but enough to make the line that is drawn follow the exact line of the road you want to take wherever there is a choice. So then, if at any point the route deviates from the actual road but doesn't go down a particular side road, i.e. it just goes slightly off at a narrow angle, then it's obviously just following a curve in the road and you can just stay on the same road and it will come back onto it when you get round the ohter bit of the curve.

The ohter thing i'm going to try is to use MapSource to see if the amount of 'intermediate' way points it generates is similar to bikehike's. If it does then i'll email garmin to see what they say (if i do now, they'll just blame it on bikehike and tell me to use mapsource obviously!)

[frankly frankie]

i've gone for 'turn declutter on' and have also gone to the map menu, set up map, "map setup - text", and set all the text size for map points, user waypoints, and street label, to 'none'. But the 'pt 1, pt 2', etc. labels still appear to be there

Declutter has never done much for me.
And unfortunately the via points in question are none of: map points, user waypoints, street labels
so these options in map setup (tabs 3 and 4) won't help. 
I don't know an answer beyond possibly hacking the gpx code in a text editor (search/replace the string "name=pt " with "name=" might make the screen less cluttered).

However the map setup option for 'map points' and 'max zoom level' can fix Pedro's problem - try a max zoom no higher than 120m for map points, and of course text size small (or none).  As you zoom the map out the icons should disappear.

[PloddinPedro]

............ However the map setup option for 'map points' and 'max zoom level' can fix Pedro's problem - try a max zoom no higher than 120m for map points, and of course text size small (or none).  As you zoom the map out the icons should disappear.

Thanks Francis - you're a star! I was hoping you'd come along!

There's also a setting for "Land cover" - can you enlighten me as to what this refers to?

[Hot Flatus]

Pedro... are you using bikehike and downloading the files for your 705 as gpxx?

[PloddinPedro]

Pedro... are you using bikehike and downloading the files for your 705 as gpxx?

No. At present I'm talking about my old Map 60CSx - I'm so new to the Edge 705 that I'm still struggling to get to grips with the basics. I just noticed that I had the same problem with the cluttered screen, but Francis has enlightened me about that re. the Map 60CSx - I haven't had a chance to play further with the Edge ......

[Hot Flatus]

Ok, when you do get to use the Edge, use bikehike.co.uk to plot your routes, save them and then download them to your pc (and then Edge)  but as a gpxx file (not a gpx).  Set Edge unit to 'track up' and off you go. Just remember when plotting the route to split it into two (or more) seperate routes if it crosses over itself, to avoid being directed off on the shortest route to your destination.

Gpxx is specifically for the 705 and it overcomes all the issues with waypoint limits. Bikehike and the 705 are the quickest and easiest route plotting tools I've ever used.

You'll find you never bother with anything else (...I have a 60csx too  )

[frankly frankie]

There's also a setting for "Land cover" - can you enlighten me as to what this refers to?

Green bits.  (parkland, forest etc).  I leave it on 'auto'.

[Manotea]

Bikehike... the quickest and easiest route plotting tools I've ever used.

Just had my first look at Bikehike. Looks very promising, especially as Bikely is going down the tubes...

[Hot Flatus]

It's the best one I've used yet... especially since it can handle gpxx files for the 705 which overcomes the waypoint limit issue.  the OS map pane is excellent for spotting cock-ups on googlemaps (of which there are plenty), noticing cut-throughs and bridleways, and also for plotting audax route sheets as gmaps don't always have roundabouts marked.

If you use the drag-edit mode, I've found it works much better in Firefox, or Chrome.

[Euan Uzami]

i've gone for 'turn declutter on' and have also gone to the map menu, set up map, "map setup - text", and set all the text size for map points, user waypoints, and street label, to 'none'. But the 'pt 1, pt 2', etc. labels still appear to be there

Declutter has never done much for me.
And unfortunately the via points in question are none of: map points, user waypoints, street labels
so these options in map setup (tabs 3 and 4) won't help. 
I don't know an answer beyond possibly hacking the gpx code in a text editor (search/replace the string "name=pt " with "name=" might make the screen less cluttered).

However the map setup option for 'map points' and 'max zoom level' can fix Pedro's problem - try a max zoom no higher than 120m for map points, and of course text size small (or none).  As you zoom the map out the icons should disappear.

interesting 'hack', I'm wondering if the name attribute isn't essential, and if it isn't there it wouldn't put a label at all?

however my strategy of having minimal points but just enough to make the line point the right way at junctions seems to be quite effective. Just need to try it on a route i don't know now.

The reason I like off road mode is because it doesn't give the routing algorithm a chance to **** your route up without you spotting that it's ****ed up. What it does is *calculate* a route between the points you've entered, and the line represents the route that IT'S calculated, not the original line that you've drawn.
What i want is for the line to be the exact one that i drew when plotting the route.

[Euan Uzami]

Bikehike... the quickest and easiest route plotting tools I've ever used.

Just had my first look at Bikehut. Looks very promising, especially as Bikely is going down the tubes...

bikely is definitelygoing down the shit pan. use bikehike instead, it's simple, and accurate for garmins.

[PloddinPedro]

It's the best one I've used yet... especially since it can handle gpxx files for the 705 which overcomes the waypoint limit issue.  the OS map pane is excellent for spotting cock-ups on googlemaps (of which there are plenty), noticing cut-throughs and bridleways, and also for plotting audax route sheets as gmaps don't always have roundabouts marked.

If you use the drag-edit mode, I've found it works much better in Firefox, or Chrome.

Interesting stuff here and in other postings. I look forward to having a play with these ideas, thanks.

So far however, because of the unsatisfactory auto-routing in the Garmin (as used with Mapsource devised routes) I've preferred and become accustomed simply to using tracks. As I already had Memory Map before I got the Garmin stuff, I've simply created my tracks therein and saved them as .gpx files. Whenever I tried web based programmes like Bikely, I found them sluggish and unreliable, perhaps because my Broadband service is a bit rubbish; so I've tended to stick with Memory Map but it does take quite a lot of time. What I've long wanted is a means of determining the shortest route along a few chosen points (Audax controls for example) with the drag and drop edit facility you get in Autoroute, and then to be able simply to convert that route into a breadcrumb trail type track which can't be altered by any GPS unit "thinking " for itself. It sounds as though Bikehike might do something like this - ?

I've also recently been told that there's a programme called "tcx converter" that switches Edge .tcx files into .gpx format and vice versa; I haven't had time to investigate this yet.

[PloddinPedro]

There's also a setting for "Land cover" - can you enlighten me as to what this refers to?

Green bits.  (parkland, forest etc).  I leave it on 'auto'.

Ah gotcha - thanks.

[Sergeant Pluck]

I've also recently been told that there's a programme called "tcx converter" that switches Edge .tcx files into .gpx format and vice versa; I haven't had time to investigate this yet

http://www.gpsies.com/convert.do

Very useful for such conversions.

[Sergeant Pluck]

It's been a while since I did any playing around with routes: when using Bikehike to create a .gpx route (this is for an Etrex HCx), is there any way to reduce the number of points at source, or do I need to keep doing what I'm doing, using WinGDB or GPSies to filter it afterwards?

I'm sure I had a neater way of doing this (without simply converting to a track, which I do not want to do in this particular case) but I can't remember it now.

[saturn]

I'm early on the learning curve but can't you just turn off bikehike's follow road and just click the points you need?

At the moment, for audax style routes, I'm leaving bikehikes follow road on when plotting the route (provides useful distance check that I'm following the intended route) and inserting routesheet style waypoints at junctions etc e.g. "089-R@T". I save the gpx to the pc and opening in mapsource where I delete the route leaving just the waypoints, then select the waypoints and allow mapsource to calculate the route between waypoints (which it does in straight lines ie not following the road). Then I send waypoints and route to the GPS and navigate off-road. It sounds like a faff but the only faff is entering the routesheet instructions.

The GPS then only tells me to do anything when I need to do something and it provides sort of hybrid routesheet / map.

I'm yet to establish what happens if you have a second encounter with a waypoint from earlier in the route, maybe going in the other direction when the instruction will be meaningless.

Maybe when I get used to it I'll just follow the line on the map but for now I'm more comfortable with the visual (and audible) cues.

[Sergeant Pluck]

You are quite right of course, for audax type routes - it's coming back to me now.

In this case, though, I just wanted to do a very quick, short route across London and I had a vague recollection of being able to do this without faffage (perhaps I did it with Google maps and the GMap to gpx bookmarklet).

In cases where you cross your previous route, or on a route that has loops, essentially you need to break the route into parts to avoid that (and to have a track to follow on the device in addition to your route).

[JonBuoy]

I am not up to speed with the terminology wrt cycling GPSs but...

In Bikehike the Options button gives you a facility for 'Trackpoint Reduction' - is that what you were thinking of ?

[frankly frankie]

I save the gpx to the pc and opening in mapsource where I delete the route leaving just the waypoints, then select the waypoints and allow mapsource to calculate the route between waypoints (which it does in straight lines ie not following the road).

I don't think you need to do that step - deleting and then re-creating the route using the same points.  The GPS will recreate the route itself anyway, provided you have it in 'off-road' mode.  

Of course, doing it on the PC means you may spot some area where you need to add or remove a point for clarity.

I'm yet to establish what happens if you have a second encounter with a waypoint from earlier in the route, maybe going in the other direction when the instruction will be meaningless.

In theory the GPS following a route in 'off-road' shouldn't be fazed by a route crossing itself or retracing along itself - but in practice this does usually cause some problems.  For any long out-and-back route of whatever shape, it's best to divide it into two routes - 'out' and 'back'.

Even then, as you say, if you arrive at a 're-used' waypoint you may have to disregard the embedded instructions though the route itself will be OK.

[piedwagtail91]

i'm not familiar with bikehike as i use tracklogs mapping and mapsource.
is there no facility in bikehike to save as a tracklog in the saved tracklogs folder on the gps?
as i say i've only used the above to programs but seven years have never saved anything as a route or as a .gpx always a saved tracklog.
i plotted a six day tour of italy for a clubmate (mapsource) and he simply switched the gps on every day and followed it. the only waypoints he had were points of interest and cafes.
the gps will follow a saved track indicating turns and such even giving a distance countdown to the junction.
routes seem to create a lot of uneeded problems and waypoints. you only need two with a saved track.

[Hot Flatus]

.tcx, .gpx (route or track) and .gpxx (for garmin 705) on bikehike

[sbseven]

If you use the drag-edit mode, I've found it works much better in Firefox, or Chrome.

Another tip for the drag edit mode.

Sometimes if you try to use the drag edit mode to adjust a small section of a long route the software can also re-route unintended larger sections of the route as well. The drag edit mode can't be undone, so sometimes you lose your carefully constructed route and cry...

To stop this, use two "hard points" before and after the section to move. Hold Ctrl+Shift and click on the route to set a hard point (shown as a black dot on the map). Then when you drag the route, only the section between the hard points will be affected. You can remove a hard point by holding Ctrl+Shift and clicking on the black dot.

Shaun