Author Topic: "filtering"  (Read 12074 times)

Julian

  • samoture
Re: "filtering"
« Reply #50 on: 05 August, 2012, 12:44:55 pm »
If I didn't filter past stationary /slow moving traffic on the way in to London, my commute would take 2 hours, and my presence on the road would wind up motorists even more than it already does, because they would feel stuck behind me as I can't do 0 - 30 in 5 seconds.

The traffic near me either goes much more slowly or much faster than I do.  I can't keep up with it when it's doing 30mph + and I don't want to sit in exhaust fumes when it's crawling at 2mph.  Filtering is legal, and I've learned the skills to do it reasonably safely (everything has a risk margin).  I'll usually filter when there's the opportunity to do so.

Having said that, if the gap between cars is narrow, or if it's a straight up the inside job, then I'll hold back where others might be braver.  My inclination to get to my destination is tempered by natural cowardice, which is probably quite a good Darwin feature.  :)

Kim

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Re: Re: "filtering"
« Reply #51 on: 05 August, 2012, 01:37:14 pm »
I agree with Domestique, if you're not going to use the main advantage of a bicycle, then why bother? You might as well be in a car.

I sense a geographical bias.

The main advantage of a bicycle over a car is that there's somewhere to park it where it won't get vandalised by students. Useful filtering opportunities come up on average twice a week. :P

Re: "filtering"
« Reply #52 on: 05 August, 2012, 04:07:43 pm »
Quote
A read of the Highway Code on overtaking, and then some reflection on how other people (not those who are proponents of filtering) might interpret could be useful.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070314

e.g.

162
Before overtaking you should make sure ... there is a suitable gap in front of the road user you plan to overtake

163
only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so

Anticipating the behaviour and reactions of others isn't about applying your own standards/expectations to them, it is about predicting their standards/expectations.

But Case Law has established that filtering by bikes isn't illegal. Nor is it wrong if carried out carefully

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: "filtering"
« Reply #53 on: 05 August, 2012, 07:16:30 pm »
Quote
A read of the Highway Code on overtaking, and then some reflection on how other people (not those who are proponents of filtering) might interpret could be useful.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070314

e.g.

162
Before overtaking you should make sure ... there is a suitable gap in front of the road user you plan to overtake

163
only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so

Anticipating the behaviour and reactions of others isn't about applying your own standards/expectations to them, it is about predicting their standards/expectations.

But Case Law has established that filtering by bikes isn't illegal. Nor is it wrong if carried out carefully

Well, as long as everyone else on the road is up to date on case law, and that then allows you to predict their standards/expectations, then you're fine.
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: "filtering"
« Reply #54 on: 05 August, 2012, 08:04:05 pm »
Quote
A read of the Highway Code on overtaking, and then some reflection on how other people (not those who are proponents of filtering) might interpret could be useful.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070314

e.g.

162
Before overtaking you should make sure ... there is a suitable gap in front of the road user you plan to overtake

163
only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so

Anticipating the behaviour and reactions of others isn't about applying your own standards/expectations to them, it is about predicting their standards/expectations.

But Case Law has established that filtering by bikes isn't illegal. Nor is it wrong if carried out carefully

Well, as long as everyone else on the road is up to date on case law, and that then allows you to predict their standards/expectations, then you're fine.

So you don't know the bit in the highway code that specifically refers to filtering?
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Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: "filtering"
« Reply #55 on: 05 August, 2012, 11:00:32 pm »
So you didn't pick up that I'm not talking about me. Or you.
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: "filtering"
« Reply #56 on: 06 August, 2012, 07:35:57 am »
You could say that about my comment too. It was a general you. ;)
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Regulator

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #57 on: 06 August, 2012, 07:43:23 am »
It's also a BMW, and BMW drivers are possibly the worst on the roads. I always do my best to give them a very wide berth.

In my experience it's a fight between BMW and Audi drivers as to who can be the biggest asshats behind the wheel...
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rower40

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #58 on: 06 August, 2012, 09:22:28 am »
Sorry, not being argumentative, I think its best if we agree to disagree.
Exactly.  :thumbsup: I'm not going to preach to others as to how they "should" behave, I'm just describing the way I *usually* ride.

I'm really lucky to use not-very-busy roads, so that the motor vehicles are usually going faster than me, and can overtake leaving lots of room; OR roads where the traffic is so snarled that I can overtake on the outside.  It's the transition between the two that's the most hazardous for my style of riding.
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Kim

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #59 on: 06 August, 2012, 12:49:31 pm »
In my experience it's a fight between BMW and Audi drivers as to who can be the biggest asshats behind the wheel...

Audi are clearly winning, due to the dilution of the BMW driving pool by reasonably sensible people who wanted a reliable car (and have forked out for the indicators upgrade).

Re: "filtering"
« Reply #60 on: 07 August, 2012, 04:19:43 pm »
I thought it more appropriate to start a thread on this specifically, even if it related to current stories.

When I started cycling with a club, in Derbyshire in the 60s, it was considered very poor form to try to over/under-take stationary or very slow cars/ trucks etc at lights etc. You held your position in the queue, and moved off with the traffic.

Is it just a London/city thing, or do many cyclists now see doing this as acceptable?

I can see how it can have fatal consequences when a cyclist creeps up the side of a turning vehicle, and I would never go alongside a vehicle within, say 5 vehicles of a junction. In fact, I would hold position in the queue.

I can also see how a careful driver, who has patiently waited to safely overtake a cyclist, gets mightily pee'd off if said cyclist creeps up the inside at the next lights, meaning the whole procedure has to be repeated.

For decades, "filtering" (although it was not referred to as such) was forbidden in the guidance of the Highway Code:

Quote
Make no attempt to gain a forward position in a traffic block by cycling along the narrow spaces between stationary vehicles

It was only very recently that it was codified in a HC revision and it is therefore not surprising that a proportion of road users do not  think it is legal to filter forward and/or they simply think it is poor road/queue etiquette to jump ahead. It's worth bearing this in mind as some road users deliberately try to hamper your progress - this is another reason to be cautious when considering whether to filter and when filtering.

In Devon, I would very rarely have to filter as it would serve very little purpose. In London, due to the congestion, I do it regularly. 



 

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: "filtering"
« Reply #61 on: 07 August, 2012, 04:45:47 pm »
Make no attempt to gain a forward position in a traffic block by cycling along the narrow spaces between stationary vehicles

Hmm. In practice people are usually either filtering in the narrow spaces between stationary vehicles and kerb or in the wide spaces between stationary vehicles and the opposite lane. I assume the former falls within the spirit of the rule, but I'm not sure of the latter.
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Poursuivant

  • a.k.a. Steve Murray
Re: "filtering"
« Reply #62 on: 07 August, 2012, 05:14:52 pm »
Highway Code Part 211 thus: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069858 states:

" . . . difficult to see motorcyclists and cyclists, especially when they are coming up from behind, coming out of junctions, at roundabouts, overtaking you or filtering through traffic. Always look out for them . . . "

My reading of this (and I have no legal qualifications whatsoever) is that it wouldn't be written as such if filtering were illegal.

I used to filter when riding a motorbike (as does nearly every biker I know - it's one of the reasons for owning one) without creating/receiving any aggro and I do the same on the pushbike, again, with no aggro (and I commute through Glasgow).

A quick Googling found these:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/community/Forums/Categories/Topic/?topic-id=357452&start-page=10

and

http://www.access-legal.co.uk/legal-news/whos-at-fault-following-a-cycling-incident-lu-2816.htm

which may be of interest, especially the bit:

"Of more interest may be the case law on filtering. Filtering – or lane splitting – is legal in the UK, and other motorists are warned of the possibility of filtering vehicles in the Highway Code, where Rule 151 says: "In slow-moving traffic you should 'be aware of cyclists and motorcyclists who may be passing on either side." Despite the warning and legality of filtering, liability in accidents involving filtering vehicles tend to result in the sort of split liability decisions highlighted in the above article"

and then it goes on to give examples of case law that could be salutory reading and makes me think that I won't be done for filtering, but if I'm harmed while doing so then it's probably hard cheese.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: "filtering"
« Reply #63 on: 07 August, 2012, 11:42:06 pm »
A quick Googling found these:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/community/Forums/Categories/Topic/?topic-id=357452&start-page=10
From that:
Quote
If the road you are on is split by a solid white line, it's still legal providing you follow the rules set out above and you DO NOT CROSS THE SOLID WHITE LINE! If you can safely pass (filter) on your side of the road, this is fine.
I doubt that is strictly true, as solid white lines may legally be crossed to pass stationary obstructions or to overtake vehicles travelling at less than 10 mph, as long as it is safe to do so. Therefore it is legal to cross the solid white line when filtering.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Dibdib

  • Fat'n'slow
Re: "filtering"
« Reply #64 on: 08 August, 2012, 01:04:03 pm »
p.s. don't you get marked down on  your motorcycling test if you don't filter when appropriate?

No, although the examiner on my motorcycle test (in 2004, so fairly recent) did ask me after the test why I didn't filter at a particular. My answer was that it didn't seem worth it, and given the potential gain I couldn't be bothered taking the risk. He seemed happy with that :)

Back to the topic at hand, maybe it's partly the motorcyclist in me but I'll only ever filter on a bicycle in the same way as I would on a motorbike - on the outside of traffic, and only if it'll gain me a worthwhile advantage. I.e. not just a couple of cars which will overtake me before the next set of lights anyway. I don't cycle often enough on dual carriageways to have ever needed to filter between two lanes of queueing traffic in the same direction.

I've absolutely no evidence to support this, but instinct and anecdata tells me that your average driver almost never uses his/her kerbside mirror, so filtering up the nearside just feels too risky for me.

Re: "filtering"
« Reply #65 on: 08 August, 2012, 04:07:36 pm »
I doubt that is strictly true, as solid white lines may legally be crossed to pass stationary obstructions or to overtake vehicles travelling at less than 10 mph, as long as it is safe to do so. Therefore it is legal to cross the solid white line when filtering.

Just to up-pedant your pedantry, you can only overtake cycles, horses and road maintenance vehicles travelling at less than 10 mph  ;)
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

Re: "filtering"
« Reply #66 on: 08 August, 2012, 04:25:50 pm »
I do worry that I spend half my life asking drivers nicely if they wouldn't mind giving me plenty of room when they overtake, and then when it suits me squeezing past their cars quite closely. I am concerned a bit about the signals this sends out. But not concerned enough to stop me filtering on occasion...  ;)

I think there is a distinction between "squeezing through" and filtering, and I agree that the former is likely to be seen negatively by other road users.

On my commute home out of Reading I have 4 places where I interact with traffic queues.  In one case I go up the inside (when there is room, otherwise I wait), another down the wide gap between two queues and in two cases round the outside.  I find that by avoiding narrow spaces (and being prepared to wait rather than squeeze through), making my intentions clear wherever appropriate, carefully watching out for hazards like lane-changers and exiting passengers, and putting myself in the best position on the road to depart from the queue area safely I manage to negotiate the evening rush-hour traffic reasonably quickly.

I know that Reading is not like London!

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: "filtering"
« Reply #67 on: 08 August, 2012, 04:48:49 pm »
Back to the topic at hand, maybe it's partly the motorcyclist in me but I'll only ever filter on a bicycle in the same way as I would on a motorbike - on the outside of traffic, and only if it'll gain me a worthwhile advantage. I.e. not just a couple of cars which will overtake me before the next set of lights anyway. I don't cycle often enough on dual carriageways to have ever needed to filter between two lanes of queueing traffic in the same direction.

I've absolutely no evidence to support this, but instinct and anecdata tells me that your average driver almost never uses his/her kerbside mirror, so filtering up the nearside just feels too risky for me.
My instinct is to never undertake too. It's worked on commutes in several major towns/cities over the decades.

But I've found Oxford is different - at least approached from the South. They have some sporadic v narrow bike lanes, so I think motorists are expecting kerbside filtering all the time.

So they leave space - and if you try overtaking, you usually run out of road, as traffic in both directions drives right upto the central white line! So you somehow get yourself back to the kerb, and find yourself behind 10 local cyclists you were ahead of a minute ago ...   :facepalm:
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Biggsy

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #68 on: 08 August, 2012, 08:48:27 pm »
I don't need drivers to see me when I'm filtering on the inside if they are stationary and have a load of stationary traffic traffic in front.  I've done it thousand of times and I'm not dead yet.  Passengers opening a door is a potential problem, but I watch out for that.

(But I don't encourage other cyclists to do anything they're not comfortable with.  Just saying it isn't necessarily dangerous).
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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #69 on: 30 January, 2013, 09:29:27 am »
I commute into central Leeds and central Bradford. If I waited in traffic, the 19km journeys would take just shy of twice as long. I use bus lanes and go around the outside of cars pretty much the whole route. So far, no close calls. I use 1 magic shine on strobe when filtering to deter people turning in front of me.

I never squeeze up the inside, but do have to cope with a couple of 3 lane sections which require me to assert my presence. On the whole, I've been surprised how accommodating the traffic is. I suspect they know they aren't going anywhere fast, and so realise it's not me that's going to be getting in their way.

Both routes are ripe for encouraging cycling. I repass cars that pass me leaving my village roughly halfway along the route into each city, and then they are bumper to bumper pretty much the rest of the way. I suspect even a slow cyclist would be quicker on bike if there was decent provision / pinch point are dealt with. It'd be a doddle to make a Otley - Leeds cycling superhighway, for instance - the roads are wonderfully wide - never get close passes. Otley - Bradford, not quite as nice, and the gradients are a bit steeper.

Steve GT

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #70 on: 01 February, 2013, 10:50:39 am »
DrMekon - Do you come back from Bradford via Hollins Hill? I have heard that a few of the blokes in the cycling club that I am a member of (Ilkley) have had a couple of 'offs' on that stretch of road.

Re: "filtering"
« Reply #71 on: 01 February, 2013, 11:24:23 am »
Yep. The road surface is brutal, but I'm running 37mm tyres on my fixed, so it's okay. Wouldn't want to go up or down it on 23s. It's a mess.

Actual traffic there is mostly fine. The only issue is as you come to the junction by the hotel, coming down the hill. The risk of a car flashing and letting oncoming traffic turn in front of you is too great to really let fly.

Toady

Re: "filtering"
« Reply #72 on: 01 February, 2013, 11:38:13 am »
Not long ago, I was going down the kerb side of a long queue.  Actually this would better be described as a traffic jam as it was a couple of hundred metres long.  As I passed inside a bus (not at a stop) the door opened and let a passenger off right in front of me (presumably she'd asked the driver because the bus wasn't moving and would take some time to get to a stop).

I wasn't going at all fast, just rolling, so I jammed on the brakes and stopped without hitting her or falling off, although I did lose by balance a bit.  We then had an apologising contest "no it was MY fault" "no, no it was MY fault" and parted on good terms.

Anyway, my feeling after this was that it was my fault to some extent.  Sneaking down the kerb side seems wrong somehow.   I still do it mind, as going down the outside on that particular stretch is a bit hairy.  But I do it more carefully.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: "filtering"
« Reply #73 on: 01 February, 2013, 12:21:54 pm »
In a similar way, pedestrians crossing in front of the bus would be blocked from your view and probably wouldn't think to look for a bike filtering. Not sure whose fault that would make a collision, but something to be aware of.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

  • Timelord
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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #74 on: 01 February, 2013, 12:35:08 pm »
Indeed.  While that sort of manoeuvre sometimes makes sense, I'm unwilling to do it at much above walking pace, because of the high risk of having to stop *now*.