Author Topic: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic  (Read 5292 times)

Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #25 on: 02 October, 2012, 08:10:31 pm »
The last time I saw an expression like that, it was on a camel.

Pancho

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Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #26 on: 02 October, 2012, 08:19:38 pm »
He may be on to something - but I doubt he realises it.

Run the roads as a business. Good idea - make the business operate to the same levels of H&S and environmental protection as any other business. Of course, he'll have to accept that the roadco business premises will be open to the public at all times - unless the libertarian wants to abolish the freedom to walk.

And, while we're on freedom of movement, bikes have that as well.

But basically, it's a good idea. Roads run to a zero casulty and zero pollution basis (with the board facing prosecution for corporate manslaughter if they fail).

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #27 on: 02 October, 2012, 09:31:57 pm »
But that would mean roads were private property. So of course we'd all have the right to walk, cycle, etc, wherever we want - but not necessarily on the road because that's private property.
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Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #28 on: 02 October, 2012, 09:46:03 pm »
The rights of way would remain. They exist across private property now. In many cases the road is owned by private landowners and the council have an easement to allow them to maintain the carriageway. It has to my knowledge yet to be tested whether the easement to allow a highway for th epassing and repassing of traffic is also sufficient to allow parking of the same on said highway.

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Cudzoziemiec

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Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #29 on: 02 October, 2012, 09:49:55 pm »
I thought that Pancho's scheme would see the rights of way themselves sold to Roads Inc. If it's just the maintenance of them that's privatised that's no great change, is it?
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

arabella

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Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #30 on: 02 October, 2012, 11:06:08 pm »
On a more cheerful note, apparently in Italy last year more bicycles were sold than cars.  :)
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Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #31 on: 02 October, 2012, 11:32:27 pm »
On a more cheerful note, apparently in Italy last year more bicycles were sold than cars.  :)

I think that's been the case for Britain for ages but most bikes remain unridden in sheds.

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

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Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #32 on: 03 October, 2012, 12:43:40 pm »
I don't think he is a particularly good economist.  He frets about the misuse of resources for cycle/bus lanes and the time cost of the (arguably) true extra time it takes to drive as a consequence.

However, he misses a few other costs to the economy of the motor car.  For example:

(1) the amount of lost work days caused by the 30,000 serious injuries - mostly motor car related - on our roads each year
(2) the cost of supporting an extra few percent of our population suffering from obesity related diabetes which threatens to overwhelm our health budget
(3) and, using his own argument, the amount of time his car (or the arrangements for managing his car such as traffic lights in locations that would not need them if there weren't cars - taking care to note that if we all cycled you'd need lights to regulate us in built up areas - holds me up and causes me lost time.

Its odd that he desciribes himself as a libertarian.  I think secretly he is envious of the freedom that us cyclists have when he is locked up in his stationary metal box  O:-)
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Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #33 on: 03 October, 2012, 02:10:52 pm »
It's a bit difficult to understand what  Richard Wellings is saying exactly as his ideas specific to cycling seem to only exist as random tweets

I get the impression that he thinks that "paint lanes" and ASLs don't really help anyone, which I think we can have a certain sympathy with

I can't think of a way of interpreting his statement that "cyclists fill up gaps in traffic due to slower speed, delaying motorists at junctions" though.  Not sure how this works or what he means by it

clarion

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Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #34 on: 03 October, 2012, 02:16:21 pm »
I would have thought that cyclists filling up gaps in the traffic is an excellent example of individuals in the free market creating efficiencies.
Getting there...

Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #35 on: 03 October, 2012, 02:30:03 pm »
I guess he's thinking that if a cycle drops into a gap between cars then the cars end up further apart and so fewer of them get through on a phase of the lights (only to get held up at the next set of lights of course).
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vorsprung

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Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #36 on: 03 October, 2012, 04:26:14 pm »
I guess he's thinking that if a cycle drops into a gap between cars then the cars end up further apart and so fewer of them get through on a phase of the lights (only to get held up at the next set of lights of course).

Right, that is sort of possible as a scenario.  But I am still struggling to make sense of it. 

The car, according to Mr Wellings has a higher economic value than the bike.  Therefore it is possible to think of a situation where a bike is riding in primary, "blocking" the road for the more economically valuable motor traffic.  However, the problem with this scenario is that this only tends to happen when the cars are travelling at slow speeds anyway.  So the bike isn't actually holding up the car.

I suppose there could be a situation where a slow road feeds into a faster road.  Bikes and cars join this faster road and the bikes therefore slow the cars.  But this seems contrived.  I can't believe that Mr Wellings really is just talking about a limited circumstance like this.  He must be referring to some different situation.  I just think it isn't clear what he is talking about

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Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #37 on: 03 October, 2012, 04:33:43 pm »
It doesn't say anywhere that he is a 'real' economist, he studied at LSE but not Economics. He studied at Oxford, but doesn't say what.
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Rhys W

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Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #38 on: 03 October, 2012, 08:54:37 pm »
His Linkedin profile is equally vague - no mention of LSE but University of Oxford 91-94 and no mention of subject.

He's also pretty keen on privatised railways, surprise surprise.

sas

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Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #39 on: 03 October, 2012, 11:25:06 pm »
Here's the library record for his PhD thesis:
http://ethos.bl.uk/OrderDetails.do?uin=uk.bl.ethos.405041

Edit: Free to download if you register
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Woofage

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Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #40 on: 04 October, 2012, 10:14:26 am »
Here's the library record for his PhD thesis:
http://ethos.bl.uk/OrderDetails.do?uin=uk.bl.ethos.405041

Edit: Free to download if you register

I'm not registered. Would you care to post the Abstract?
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Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #41 on: 04 October, 2012, 06:26:16 pm »
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #42 on: 04 October, 2012, 07:20:41 pm »
The car, according to Mr Wellings has a higher economic value than the bike. 
The car may have, but the important thing about a car (or a bike) is that is moving a person. 
A computer programmer riding a bike probably has a higher economic value than the shop assistant in a car.

(Not that economic value is a good way of measuring people)
"No matter how slow you go, you're still lapping everybody on the couch."

Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #43 on: 04 October, 2012, 07:38:57 pm »
This story might matter if the Prime Minister, a number of the cabinet and the Mayor of London weren't keen cyclists.

Re: "Economist" thinks cyclists are paupers and delay traffic
« Reply #44 on: 04 October, 2012, 08:41:16 pm »
Why oh why do I keep ruinning my evenings by reading thing that make me mad.