Cyclist down

[Sergeant Pluck]

I've only just checked BBC News. Appalled at the prominence of that headline.

[Oscar's dad]

I think some of us are being a bit unfair to Bradley.  He was asked for an opinion in an open press conference and given a tragedy had clearly taken place he felt compelled to comment.  I can't imagine he had much time to rally his thoughts but I can imagine he had a few other things on his mind!  All he did was express his opinion.  I agree with some of the things he is reported as saying and disagree with other bits.

I don't believe Wiggins has ever set himself up as a spokesperson for cycling so to criticise his opinions expressed off the cuff is a little unfair, especially bearing in mind the day or indeed the month he has had. 

I have also heard him quoted as saying he hasn't had media training.  Given some of the good and funny things he has said and done recently I think this is true.

[citoyen]

Reading the link that Wendy posted elsewhere the junction design had nothing to do with it, nor do Locog have blood on their hands.

Ok, so it seems the victim in this instance is at least partly responsible for his own demise. And maybe my initial response was more emotional than rational. But it's still relevant that Locog have failed to make adequate provision for cyclists travelling to and from the Olympic sites, and that concerns have been raised about that particular junction.

d.

[Regulator]

The guy rides bikes downhill at 70mph, he has colleagues who die in bike crashes, I think he's entitled to his view on helmets, just as we are. It's just he has a higher profile.

He's entitled to his views.  But he expressed them inappropriately (given the timing) and either in ignorance of the facts of the case or deliberately ignoring them, and is seeking to force them onto other cyclists.

I don't care if he's won the Tour de France or some Olympic gold medals.  On this occasion (and it's not the first time) he's shown himself to be a dick.

[Regulator]

I think some of us are being a bit unfair to Bradley.  He was asked for an opinion in an open press conference and given a tragedy had clearly taken place he felt compelled to comment. 

Why?  If he had any sense he wouldn't have commented.

[Polar Bear]

Unfortunately Lizzie A has joined Wiggins.   How utterly stupid are these elites?

Sincere condolences and RIP. 

 

[TimC]

In fairness, Bradley was a bit ambushed, and talked about laws to better protect cyclists.  Unfortunately, he cited helmet compulsion as one, and, naturally, that's the one the media have picked up and gone with.  But Wiggins is experienced at talking to the press, and I have no doubt that Brailsford puts all hos riders through media training, so he really should have known better than to put his foot in it, which takes the shine off hos success slightly, by changing his legacy.

I blame endorphins.  He had earned them.

The media training point may be apposite. I wonder if Sky, British Cycling or UK Sport have a 'party line' on helmet use? I don't see Brad as being a guy who would normally tread a party line, but it may be so. I certainly think his judgement will be coloured by the kind of cycling he does, and he needs a bit of education about what normal people do at normal speeds!

[clarion]

What would have been wrong with expressing sadness and giving condolences, but saying he was unable to comment, as he didn't know the details of the case?  Next question, please.

[Regulator]

What would have been wrong with expressing sadness and giving condolences, but saying he was unable to comment, as he didn't know the details of the case?  Next question, please.

Exactly!

[AndyK]

I've only just checked BBC News. Appalled at the prominence of that headline.

I had to send comment:

I have been cycling for over forty years, and as great an athlete as he is, Bradley Wiggins couldn't be more wrong on helmets and cyclist safety.

Helmets should absolutely NOT be compulsory. Helmet compulsion makes cycling more dangerous for all cyclists because cyclist numbers are greatly reduced. See Australia for this. They introduced compulsory helmet law, and overnight over 90% of children who cycled to school stopped doing so. Australia is now one of the most obese nations in the world and they are discussing repealing their helmet law.

Read more Here: http://www.cycle-helmets.com

In the case in question I'm assuming Bradley Wiggins was not in full possession of the facts. The cyclist who was killed passed a bus on the inside when that bus was preparing to turn left. A first-hand witness account (read it here: http://road.cc/content/news/62783-cyclist-killed-olympic-bus-witness-accounts-and-wigginss-input ) states the cyclist's lower half was crushed and tangled in the machinery under the bus. No helmet in the world would have saved that poor young man's life.

Helmet compulsion is bad for cycling, and bad for health, because it discourages cycling, reduces cyclist numbers, increases obesity rates, increases cardio-vascular disease rates, increases diabetes rates, and makes the roads more dangerous because fewer drivers are cycle aware.
The answer is not more and more restriction on cyclists, the answer is better road infrastructure, better driver training, and the introduction of presumed liability driver insurance.
It is no coincidence that the countries with the lowest obesity rates and the safest cycling in the world are also the countries with no helmet compulsion, better road infrastructure, and presumed liability insurance: the Netherlands and Denmark.

[Regulator]

A good response Andy - bar one little thing.  The Netherlands and Denmark don't have 'presumed liability insurance', simply a presumption of liability.

[Oscar's dad]

What would have been wrong with expressing sadness and giving condolences, but saying he was unable to comment, as he didn't know the details of the case?  Next question, please.

In hindsight, that would have been a better answer.  Even Brad would probably agree with that this morning given the storm his comments created.  But, like us, he and anyone else is entitled to express views.  If Brad had set himself up as a cycling spokesperson or launched some sort of cycling safety campaign then we could legitimately have a pop at his comments.

The bigger message (*)here is "Don't get on the inside of large vehicles".  I don't see that in the press but doing so is far more dangerous than wearing or not wearing a helmet.

(*) Even if this had nothing to do with last night's tragedy it's still a valid message.

[Oscar's dad]

A good response Andy - bar one little thing.  The Netherlands and Denmark don't have 'presumed liability insurance', simply a presumption of liability.

Agreed. well put Andy.

[Regulator]

What would have been wrong with expressing sadness and giving condolences, but saying he was unable to comment, as he didn't know the details of the case?  Next question, please.

In hindsight, that would have been a better answer.  Even Brad would probably agree with that this morning given the storm his comments created.  But, like us, he and anyone else is entitled to express views.  If Brad had set himself up as a cycling spokesperson or launched some sort of cycling safety campaign then we could legitimately have a pop at his comments.

That's exactly what he's done with his comments.  And he's done so without knowing the facts, either of the incident or, more widely, about helmets.

[Sergeant Pluck]

The bigger message (*)here is "Don't get on the inside of large vehicles".  I don't see that in the press but doing so is far more dangerous than wearing or not wearing a helmet.

That's the sad thing - that important message is just getting swamped by irrelevant guff.

[Zipperhead]

Reading the link that Wendy posted elsewhere the junction design had nothing to do with it, nor do Locog have blood on their hands.

Ok, so it seems the victim in this instance is at least partly responsible for his own demise. And maybe my initial response was more emotional than rational. But it's still relevant that Locog have failed to make adequate provision for cyclists travelling to and from the Olympic sites, and that concerns have been raised about that particular junction.

d.

Partly responsible? I'll happily take this over to POBI, but based on that account partly is not a word I would use. He put himself in a position of extreme danger and unfortunately suffered the consequences.

We as cyclists have to take  responsibility for our own actions, in the same way that we ask other road users to take responsibility for theirs.

Stand outside the Houses of Parliament any weekday and you will see large numbers of cyclists ignoring red lights, riding through pedestrians who are crossing, and generally riding stupidly.

If we as cyclists are seen to be bleating about "the roads are not safe, big vehicles are not safe", then what do you think the government are going to do about it? Do you think that they are going to insist that all junctions are surveyed and rebuilt, all large vehicles are fitted with extra mirrors, cctv and windows to spot cyclists? Drivers are given additional training? Or do you suppose they will just make it mandatory for all cyclists to wear helmets and hi-vis all the time "for our own safety"

[mattc]

But, like us, he and anyone else is entitled to express views.  If Brad had set himself up as a cycling spokesperson or launched some sort of cycling safety campaign then we could legitimately have a pop at his comments.

With respect, I've got no time for this blinkered view.

Wiggo is the most famous cyclist on the planet right now, with more access to the media than President Obama. Whatever he says, gets reported. Right now he IS a cycling spokesman.

[marcusjb]

But, like us, he and anyone else is entitled to express views.  If Brad had set himself up as a cycling spokesperson or launched some sort of cycling safety campaign then we could legitimately have a pop at his comments.

With respect, I've got no time for this blinkered view.

Wiggo is the most famous cyclist on the planet right now, with more access to the media than President Obama. Whatever he says, gets reported. Right now he IS a cycling spokesman.

Totally agree with Matt - whatever he says at the moment is going to get air and print time.

So, I wish he had been more considered about what he has said (the whole 'cycling is dangerous' thing riles me more than 'everyone should wear helmets'), but he wasn't.  I just hope that somewhere in the press the opposing viewpoints are allowed their time.

None of which helps this poor rider of course.

[Morrisette]

The eyewitness account of that accident actually made me go cold reading it. That poor guy. Completely horrific.

***

Completely agree with AndyK, good comment.

The problem is that Bradley Wiggns will be listened to on this because right now he is so high-profile. If he is going to call for anything it should be much harsher penalties for dangerous drivers, enforcement of existing driving laws and a blanket ban on driving able-bodied kids to school. Get people off the road who can't be trusted behind the wheel of a car, and not for six months or three points - for a long time. No special pleading that they need a car to be able to live - no, you don't.

A helmet would not make my commute any safer, the thing that would do that would be a higher standard of driving - stop turning aorund to yell at your kids, look where you're going, drive slower, get off the phone, and generally just concentrate on what are doing and where you are aiming your tonne of metal.

[Speshact]

just emailed BBC asking them to illustrate their 'Bradley call for helmet law' story with the image shown here:
http://nymag.com/daily/sports/2012/08/bradley-wiggins-wins-cycling-gold-for-britain.html

[mattc]

Totally agree with Matt - whatever he says at the moment is going to get air and print time.

My time has come! 

[Oscar's dad]

So, some kid decides to drag themselves away from the telly and devote themselves to a sport. Some years down the track they do really well and win big time on the world stage.  Upon reaching this point they are expected to be polished media performers who only offer well informed, well argued points of view that won't upset anyone and generally make the world a better place.

We expect a lot don't we?

[Ewan Houzami]

I was watching the interview on Sky as he made his points about safety (straight after his BBC appearance) and he was starting to ramble a bit tbh, (a couple of vodka tonics on board wouldn't have helped, and you actually see how shy and insecure he can be in these moments). I felt he was trying to keep onside with the press - opening mouth without engaging brain sort of thing. It was almost as if he was saying what he wanted people to hear and that last night wouldn't have been the most appropriate time to go off on a rant over inane questions about road safety. So he was trying to be nice, and I can't imagine anyone in the room at that precise time the question was asked, was aware of what had just happened with the Olympic bus. Although he did manage to squeeze in a couple of 'fucking's and a 'shit' (I could have expressed that better) for which Sky had to apologise afterwards.

[mattc]

So, some kid decides to drag themselves away from the telly and devote themselves to a sport. Some years down the track they do really well and win big time on the world stage.  Upon reaching this point they are expected to be polished media performers who only offer well informed, well argued points of view that won't upset anyone and generally make the world a better place.

We expect a lot don't we?

I for one don't expect - or want - our sports heroes to be polished media performers. I love Brad, all the more so for his candid comments.

One quote I liked was after the tour, regarding his doping outburst. Summat like:
"I didn't lose my rag - I just said exactly what I thought."

I'm keen to hear something similar about helmetgate.

[robgul]

Reading the link that Wendy posted elsewhere the junction design had nothing to do with it, nor do Locog have blood on their hands.

Ok, so it seems the victim in this instance is at least partly responsible for his own demise. And maybe my initial response was more emotional than rational. But it's still relevant that Locog have failed to make adequate provision for cyclists travelling to and from the Olympic sites, and that concerns have been raised about that particular junction.

d.

Partly responsible? I'll happily take this over to POBI, but based on that account partly is not a word I would use. He put himself in a position of extreme danger and unfortunately suffered the consequences.

We as cyclists have to take  responsibility for our own actions, in the same way that we ask other road users to take responsibility for theirs.

Stand outside the Houses of Parliament any weekday and you will see large numbers of cyclists ignoring red lights, riding through pedestrians who are crossing, and generally riding stupidly.

If we as cyclists are seen to be bleating about "the roads are not safe, big vehicles are not safe", then what do you think the government are going to do about it? Do you think that they are going to insist that all junctions are surveyed and rebuilt, all large vehicles are fitted with extra mirrors, cctv and windows to spot cyclists? Drivers are given additional training? Or do you suppose they will just make it mandatory for all cyclists to wear helmets and hi-vis all the time "for our own safety"

Exactly.  I have every sympathy for the victim and his family ... BUT play with fire and expect to get burned.  Riding up the inside of trucks or buses (whether they are signalling to turn or not) is pretty dumb in my book.

There is no complete answer BUT common sense and being aware forms a great part of cycling safely.

By chance I heard yesterday that the DfT has just issued an "invitation to bid" to all Highways Authorities for funding to "improve junctions dangerous to cyclists" .... inspired, if that's the word, by The Times/Sunday Times journalist death and the newspaper's pressure messages.

As Ian, Head of Deliverance in 2012, would say "That's all good then" ... well, yes but just £15 million .  IN TOTAL!! ... the paperwork will cost that.

Rob   (Helmet wearer, no earphones - campaigner to cut pavement & RLJ riders' bikes in half, on the spot - and ticket vehicles that stop in ASL boxes too)