Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => Topic started by: bikey-mikey on 31 March, 2017, 07:46:39 am

Title: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: bikey-mikey on 31 March, 2017, 07:46:39 am
There are many reports saying that Mike died in a crash on the Monaro Highway during the closing stages of the IPWR south of Canberra.

RIP Mike



http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/4568507/indian-pacific-wheel-race-cancelled-due-to-death-of-cyclist-mike-hall/ (http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/4568507/indian-pacific-wheel-race-cancelled-due-to-death-of-cyclist-mike-hall/)
Title: Re: Mike Hall
Post by: GPS on 31 March, 2017, 07:57:04 am
Terrible, awful news.

RIP Mike.

IPWR cancelled.

Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: alotronic on 31 March, 2017, 08:04:17 am
A real shock. Horrible.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: vistaed on 31 March, 2017, 08:08:19 am
The race organisers have confirmed that he had died. They have cancelled the race. Terrible news!
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: PAC on 31 March, 2017, 08:09:23 am
Absolutely devastating news.  Mike's in my thoughts :-[
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 31 March, 2017, 08:12:23 am
A legend who inspired many people to push beyond themselves and achieve new personal records, myself included.  Our thoughts go out to his family and close friends who have lost a loved one.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: inappropriate_bike on 31 March, 2017, 08:53:52 am
A legend who inspired many people to push beyond themselves and achieve new personal records, myself included.  Our thoughts go out to his family and close friends who have lost a loved one.

I was just reading about Mike and vistaed's bonkers BCM route choices - https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=92759.200

RIP.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: JamesBradbury on 31 March, 2017, 09:12:03 am
A friend and I were tracking Mike's progress during this race and we're shocked and deeply saddened to hear this news. I notice there's a JustGiving page to help support his partner (https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/Mikehall?utm_id=60&utm_term=Rkx4nxve5) at this difficult time if anyone feels inclined to contribute. 
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Canardly on 31 March, 2017, 09:21:59 am
Terrible. RIP.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Wobbly on 31 March, 2017, 09:22:46 am
Such shocking and sad news  :( :(
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: bhoot on 31 March, 2017, 09:25:47 am
I met Mike at the AUK reunion in November, and rode a short distance with him chatting about usual cyclist stuff like tyre choice, such a friendly unassuming guy. Then we watched the video from the Trans Am - and were inspired enough to buy it and watch it again.
I'm really gutted to hear this sad news.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Veloman on 31 March, 2017, 09:27:49 am
A legend who inspired many people to push beyond themselves and achieve new personal records, myself included.  Our thoughts go out to his family and close friends who have lost a loved one.

So true.

Only ever met him once when he was giving a talk on his exploits after which I had a conversation about his kit etc.  Very approachable and thoroughly nice guy.  Very sad news.

I notice there's a JustGiving page to help support his partner (https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/Mikehall?utm_id=60&utm_term=Rkx4nxve5) at this difficult time if anyone feels inclined to contribute. 

Very worthwhile and worthy of support.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: gibbo on 31 March, 2017, 09:45:00 am
I just saw this news on the BBC. Sent a chill down my spine. Such a tragedy. RIP Mike, what you did was truly amazing.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: veloboy on 31 March, 2017, 09:52:08 am
Very sad news.
RIP and my deepest condolences to his family and close friends.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: igauk on 31 March, 2017, 10:11:34 am
Just saw this on the BBC. A big shock and very sad news. I've never met him but an inspiration nevertheless.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: vorsprung on 31 March, 2017, 10:21:19 am
This is very shocking news

I followed Mike on Twitter for years and met him and talked on the Brevet Cymru one time

He wasn't a close friend or anything but he was approachable, remarkable and, for such an extraordinary man, very ordinary
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: vorsprung on 31 March, 2017, 10:28:28 am
link to the police report

https://www.policenews.act.gov.au/news/media-releases/police-investigate-fatal-collision-monaro-highway-3?utm_source=mail%20alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=media%20release

Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: SoreTween on 31 March, 2017, 10:35:33 am
Hell not another one.
RIP Mike, you were and still are an inspiration.
My condolences to everyone coming to terms with a big hole in their world today.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: MCLK on 31 March, 2017, 10:51:39 am
Terrible news. I've been 'dot watching' the IPWR all week and even watched Inspired to Ride last night - didn't expect to wake up to this.

RIP Mike.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: caerau on 31 March, 2017, 10:51:56 am
No words.  :(   
He was a very familiar face on the audaxes around these South Wales parts.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: jamesld8 on 31 March, 2017, 10:55:08 am
Dreadful and sad news and my condolences to all his family. I met Mike once on BCM 2016 at Kings Dolgellau and he was a lovely and modest man to talk to. A terrible loss of an inspiring rider
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Ivan on 31 March, 2017, 11:13:53 am
Absolutely gutted to have lost him. Even more poignant is that it's nearly a year since we lost Richard, so once again I'll be starting my event this weekend with sadness and a heavy heart.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Mike Conway on 31 March, 2017, 11:28:30 am
The long distance community has lost a real legend. RIP Mike Hall.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 31 March, 2017, 11:41:15 am
Shared the road with him twice. BC and BCM, he was a real gent and was always willing to share a joke and experiences of being on the road. He was riding a bike with camping equipment and still dropped me on a climb.

BB
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: simonp on 31 March, 2017, 11:47:03 am
I never met Mike, but his adventurous spirit inspired many people.

RIP, another tragic loss to cycling.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: vorsprung on 31 March, 2017, 11:59:01 am
Mike speaking to Jack Thurston about what makes him a cyclist.  Words we could all relate to

https://twitter.com/jackthurston/status/847126521408032769

Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Jack_P on 31 March, 2017, 12:42:59 pm
Just devastating, so sad, a huge loss.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Graeme on 31 March, 2017, 01:49:09 pm
 :'(
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: vorsprung on 31 March, 2017, 02:39:56 pm
On the twitter feed there are tributes from all over the world.  Mike was a truely international figure
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: postie on 31 March, 2017, 02:49:30 pm
A very very big lost, been keeping a eye on the race.
Only met him if a few times but a really nice bloke who had a great love of cycling .

Rip mike.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: ian_oli on 31 March, 2017, 03:06:51 pm
My wife and I are both very sad. I got to know him a little when I finished the second Transcontinental, my wife rather better as a helper on it and subsequent events. He was a genuine unassuming guy with the strength of mind to overcoming a lot of barriers to riding around the world as fast as he did, as well as win several ultra distance races. I really hope his legacy of the Transcontinental lives on both for its sake, but also in how it has inspired a series of ultra-distance unsupported races.

RIP
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Manotea on 31 March, 2017, 05:09:03 pm
Absolutely terrible news. There has been way too much like it of late. My condolances to everybody who knew Mike and to those who didn't but were inspired by him.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Laid Back Rich on 31 March, 2017, 06:21:15 pm
Dreadful news. I met him at the end of his world record 92-day bike ride in 2012 and wrote a piece for Arrivee (http://issuu.com/audax-uk/docs/2012-aug-arrivee/41?e=0), an issue edited by Tim Wainwright...

Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: BlackSheep on 31 March, 2017, 06:42:36 pm
 :'(
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: vistaed on 31 March, 2017, 11:43:45 pm
:'(
Indeed
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Ham on 01 April, 2017, 08:41:21 am
Dreadful news. I met him at the end of his world record 92-day bike ride in 2012 and wrote a piece for Arrivee (http://issuu.com/audax-uk/docs/2012-aug-arrivee/41?e=0), an issue edited by Tim Wainwright...


It's intensely poignant to read about his least favourite part of the trip.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: canny colin on 01 April, 2017, 09:16:50 am
Mike also tweeted  on the 26th of march 2017  about motorist passing too close and too fast . It might be fitting to have a campaign , In his name to make motorist more  aware of how vulnerable cyclists  are . R I P mike   
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 01 April, 2017, 09:22:49 am
Motorists already know; a number of motorists just don't care. Certain motorists actively use that vulnerability to bully cyclists out of their way.
http://www.amygillett.org.au has been running in Oz since 2006.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: canny colin on 01 April, 2017, 10:57:18 am
I don't know the answer little wheels& big but some thing has to change .  I have deleted most of this post ( out of respect) i don't  want to hijack this thread ) colin     
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Terry2wheelz on 01 April, 2017, 01:13:53 pm
Very sad news, Mike H was a real source of inspiration & crackin' ambassador for our pastime -

It's not been a good couple of weeks in this respect, I can still vividly recall seeing two Crewe Clarion riders performing CPR on their club-mate Mark on the Mam-Tor audax, then in very quick succession we learn of the tragic loss of other keen audaxers  Micky Ina & Tim Wainwright.

Being a forty-somthing I sometimes just roll thru life thinking / hoping that I'll be doing this for years to come & totally taking life for granted.
Life really is a precious gift.   35 is no age despite Mike's impressive palmares. Very Sad.
RIP - Mike, Mark, Micky & Tim     
T. 
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: T42 on 01 April, 2017, 03:34:46 pm
I did not know him.  Reading the tributes, I wish I had.

R.I.P.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Mark Walsh on 01 April, 2017, 06:26:19 pm
It's particularly upsetting to learn of the death of Mike from a car collision less than a week after being hit myself on The  Dean. I enjoyed meeting and listening to him at the Reunion Dinner. Very sad to hear that he's been killed so tragically and so young.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: hellymedic on 01 April, 2017, 07:13:48 pm
RIP Mike.
There's a JustGiving page to raise funds for his loved ones.
https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/Mikehall (https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/Mikehall)
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Séamas M. on 02 April, 2017, 12:13:00 am
Thanks, Helly, donated.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Peter on 02 April, 2017, 12:51:29 am
Dreadful news. I met him at the end of his world record 92-day bike ride in 2012 and wrote a piece for Arrivee (http://issuu.com/audax-uk/docs/2012-aug-arrivee/41?e=0), an issue edited by Tim Wainwright...


It's intensely poignant to read about his least favourite part of the trip.

It's a poignant issue altogether, containing as it does an appreciation of Rocco, the article about Mike Hall and contributions from Chris Wilby and John Radford.  There's also a couple of articles by at least one other rider who has been smashed up in the recent past. Tim's photos, too.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Torslanda on 03 April, 2017, 10:35:07 pm
Tomorrow evening - Tuesday 04/04 - at 22.30, Bike Channel (Sky 464 & others) will be showing 'Inspired To Ride' as a tribute to Mike.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: D.A.L.E. on 04 April, 2017, 10:26:34 am
Dreadful news. I met him at the end of his world record 92-day bike ride in 2012 and wrote a piece for Arrivee (http://issuu.com/audax-uk/docs/2012-aug-arrivee/41?e=0), an issue edited by Tim Wainwright...


It's intensely poignant to read about his least favourite part of the trip.
It's fucking heartbreaking watching this -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GRUZhBAPPk
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Delph Cyclist on 04 April, 2017, 05:26:41 pm
Dreadful news. I met him at the end of his world record 92-day bike ride in 2012 and wrote a piece for Arrivee (http://issuu.com/audax-uk/docs/2012-aug-arrivee/41?e=0), an issue edited by Tim Wainwright...

We could do with something for Arrivee for those not on YACF.  This next edition already will have obits for Tim and Roland Masset.  But don't send anything to the email address given in the latest Arrivee, because that's Tim's - perhaps better is to use the link given on the AUKweb page for Arrivee contributions IE http://www.aukweb.net/arrivee/filedrop/
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Laid Back Rich on 04 April, 2017, 05:56:06 pm
a lovely tribute here - maybe the author would be happy for it to appear in Arrivee?

https://ridefar.info/2017/04/tribute-mike-hall/
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Phil W on 05 April, 2017, 06:46:10 pm
Kirsten owner of Brush Mountain Lodge on the Tour Divide talks of meeting Mike the first time in 2011.

https://www.facebook.com/BrushMountainLodge/posts/1138489609594325
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Phil W on 06 April, 2017, 06:44:11 pm
Great set of photos from Tour Divide and Transam.

https://www.facebook.com/julian.craker.7/posts/1485539971516068
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Hot Flatus on 06 April, 2017, 06:58:21 pm
I can't quite get to grips with this yet. I can't say I knew Mike beyond riding with him a few times, but he just strikes me as the sort of person who should never die. It's not that I don't value other people, but there was something about Mike that makes this horrific event really grate. I know I'm not the only person who feels this way. None of the eulogies I've read strike me as anything other than completely sincere.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Peat on 07 April, 2017, 09:05:19 am
he just strikes me as the sort of person who should never die.

Without wishing to sound too twee, he won't... He has a legacy that will have always outlasted his physical presence on this spinning rock. That his time was cut so short is just galling though, and i agree, tough to come to terms with.

Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: TigaSefi on 22 April, 2017, 09:36:51 pm
So no charges, no police reports, no more information as to what happened that day? Seems shoddy to me.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: mattc on 23 April, 2017, 07:49:25 pm
For those not on the mailing list (I don't think they'd mind this being distributed:)


A celebration of Mike’s life will be held on Tuesday 2nd May at around 12:45 at Pavilions of Harrogate – Wharfe Room.
http://transcontinental.us6.list-manage.com/track/click?u=6449313680bbffb8a31db02ae&id=16f1a5aaf6&e=9c42529369

We would like to invite anyone who felt a connection to Mike to come and remember him in good company. There will be an opportunity to say a few words about him and share some stories over a jar or two. There is no need to R.S.V.P please just turn up. Any questions you may have about the venue such as directions or parking please contact the venue directly.

As we appreciate Yorkshire might be a long way for some people to travel, there will be another event held in Mid Wales in early June.

As befitting a celebration of Mike and his passion for bikes and cycling you are positively encourage to arrive by bike. There will be room to store bikes, at the owner’s risk, at the Pavilion. The wearing of lycra is encouraged.

The funeral will be a small and private family gathering, but we hope to share the celebratory part of the day with everyone who would like to come.

We continue to seek your patience while we say goodbye to Mike. We will endeavour to bring you news of the race a short while after we've said our goodbyes.

www.mikehall.cc

Date and time

2nd May 2017, around 12:45
 
Location
Pavilions of Harrogate, Wharfe Room, Great Yorkshire Showground, Harrogate, North Yorkshire, HG2 8NZ
 
Dress code
Lycra and cycling caps encouraged, but please dress in any way you see fit to honour Mike.


On the Facebook group there are rides being (semi)organised, and beds supplied to visitors from abroad. Nice to see.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: paddyirish on 04 May, 2017, 08:13:47 pm
Nice obituary https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mike-hall-cxp20wfmr (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mike-hall-cxp20wfmr) in the Times yesterday - well worth registering for 2 free articles per week in order to read it, if you don't have paywall access.

Sounds like it was a special Memorial Service on Tuesday.  Never met Mike, but have thought about him on almost every bike ride since the IPWR started.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: TigaSefi on 05 May, 2017, 09:25:08 am
Nice obituary https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mike-hall-cxp20wfmr (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mike-hall-cxp20wfmr) in the Times yesterday - well worth registering for 2 free articles per week in order to read it, if you don't have paywall access.

Sounds like it was a special Memorial Service on Tuesday.  Never met Mike, but have thought about him on almost every bike ride since the IPWR started.

Thanks for this. Read it and it a great write up. Sad to see that the driver is still “assisting” the police with the events after all these weeks.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: TJG on 05 May, 2017, 01:23:34 pm
The celebration of his life was great and lovely to see so many people arriving by bike.  He has clearly inspired and  left a lasting impression with many people.  There were a lot of interesting memories shared by the people who knew him.

Here is one of the poems read out.

http://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/Blog/Archive/May-2017/More-than-a-blue-dot
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Ivan on 05 May, 2017, 02:51:34 pm
The brevet-style cards they distributed was a beautiful idea as well. Hopefully these links from the TCR FB page will work for everyone, otherwise I'll post photos of mine later:

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18301472_10154915091879902_8484744893119517786_n.jpg?oh=080609794cc8d1621bd11661e1548440&oe=59792FE2)(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18268349_10154915095469902_9124837437780969970_n.jpg?oh=a8a8853bebd5946a012ef2dc1b184ceb&oe=59BDBA8E)

There is a Mike-sized hole in my life now, and though a lot smaller that other people's who attended on the day, it still hurts every day. I hate my inarticulacy at times like this, was struggling to come up with something positive to say to Patricia Hall, when zigzag came along, spoke so eloquently about how you could see Mike's character reflected in her, enough to move us all to tears.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: trekker12 on 02 June, 2017, 11:10:10 am
Follow Mike's last dot here

http://trackleaders.com/mikeslastdot17f.php
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: jamesld8 on 04 June, 2017, 08:33:34 pm
Was privileged to be able to join in a section of the Mike`s  last ride on Saturday from Abbeycwmhir. A memorable ride and a really nice community of cyclists and his friends.

Here`s scene of cyclists on last ride heading out along that iconic Welsh road heading west along Elan valley. Good to have been able join in for a bit of the ride.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4204/35097500545_53c571f9de_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/VtrS8K)P6030128 (https://flic.kr/p/VtrS8K) by jamesld8 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/55935603@N05/), on Flickr

 
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: paddyirish on 23 December, 2017, 10:29:49 am
It has taken a while, but I hope that some good comes out of this.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/inquest-opens-into-death-of-british-cyclist-mike-hall-20171218-h06dkb.html (http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/inquest-opens-into-death-of-british-cyclist-mike-hall-20171218-h06dkb.html)

Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 23 December, 2017, 10:51:43 am
It is a little surprising that the race organisers did not seek leave to appear at the inquest. That may increase the risk of incorrect conclusions.

Audax Oz had a rider die in a brevet last century and the coroner completely muddled riding a 600km brevet with a short road race and ignored the concept of riding a bike on the road at night for any other reason. The consequences of the coroner taking that approach still linger.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: postie on 23 December, 2017, 11:50:00 am
Not sure if anyone notice during last Sunday's bbc's sport personally of the year,  when they have a bit were they remember sports stars who are no longer with us a picture of mike hall came up , it was nice to see him remember in the mainstream.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: mattc on 23 December, 2017, 01:50:51 pm
Yes, that was a nice thing. He's also on their webpage: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/sports-personality/42182257
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Charlie Polecat on 23 December, 2017, 03:34:13 pm
Quote
It is a little surprising that the race organisers did not seek leave to appear at the inquest. That may increase the risk of incorrect conclusions.

These unsupported races are just that, unsupported, so I don't see the need for the organisers to appear unless they wanted to as a show of their support for Mike's wife. Being there, could have been tantamount as suggesting they were in any way responsible.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 23 December, 2017, 03:59:55 pm
The race rules and route were set by the organiser. The organiser has noticeably modified the equipment requirements for next year's race. Do you think any of those things might influence the coroner's inquest regarding the organiser's responsibility or lack thereof?
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Frank9755 on 23 December, 2017, 08:14:49 pm
I don't know much about how inquests work. But I agree, surprising that Jesse not taking a proactive role. I would have expected he would be called to give evidence, but maybe that is not what happens at these things. I'll make some discreet enquiries.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: hellymedic on 23 December, 2017, 09:13:17 pm
In the UK (and Mike died in Australia) inquest are merely to ascertain cause of death, not to ascribe blame.

A Coroner can issue a 'Prevention of Future Deaths' statement but this course of action is not commonly taken.

A cause of death might be

Natural Causes
Misadventure - usually risky activity goes wrong
Suicide
Open Verdict - No conclusive evidence - often used when someone has killed themself but was not definitely known to be suicidal
Accidental
Unlawfully killed

There are more but the list is very limited.

Legal and judiciary systems elsewhere have different systems.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 23 December, 2017, 09:31:38 pm
https://www.courts.act.gov.au/magistrates/courts/coroners_court

As I said, Audax Oz is still affected by a coroner's inquest that occurred last century.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Charlie Polecat on 24 December, 2017, 12:00:49 am
Jesse's statement of requirements for the next race in March:

They said riders would need to pass a safety check and be required to have two front and two rear lights, a rear red reflector, reflective ankle straps and reflective tape on their bike's crank arms and seat stays.

They will also be required to wear a reflective vest and have their lights on between 4pm and 8am and when visibility is poor.

Is somewhat surprising in that this appears to suggest these basic safety requirements were not in force for this year's race.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: simonp on 24 December, 2017, 01:52:07 am
Audax UK does not specify such requirements - there is no bike check on any Auk event I’ve entered. PBP does have a check and sanctions for failing to wear high vis etc when required.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: jsabine on 24 December, 2017, 01:57:28 am
Jesse's statement of requirements for the next race in March:

They said riders would need to pass a safety check and be required to have two front and two rear lights, a rear red reflector, reflective ankle straps and reflective tape on their bike's crank arms and seat stays.

They will also be required to wear a reflective vest and have their lights on between 4pm and 8am and when visibility is poor.

Is somewhat surprising in that this appears to suggest these basic safety requirements were not in force for this year's race.

I thought you had to be an adult to enter this event.

My preference is to assume that people over the age of majority are capable of exercising their own judgment on a such matters.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: hellymedic on 24 December, 2017, 02:54:16 am
I am not aware of any definite evidence that folk bedecked in high-vis actually have fewer collisions.

There might be evidence they are seen sooner but it's moot that drivers actually change their behaviour for the better as a result.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Ivo on 24 December, 2017, 05:45:52 am
Plus something forgotten by people from warmer climates, those not used to hot weather can overheat due to wearing a reflective vest, especially when the requirement is 8pm, on warm summer evenings it's still light then and still hot.
Overheating can lead to sleepiness with all the associated behaviour.

So wearing a reflective vest during hours of daylight can even cause a crash.

(Plus there are area's where wearing a reflective vest 'urges' car drivers to overtake you closer as usual.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Exit Stage Left on 24 December, 2017, 08:12:09 am
Audax UK does not specify such requirements - there is no bike check on any Auk event I’ve entered. PBP does have a check and sanctions for failing to wear high vis etc when required.

These rules are bound to vary from event to event. The 'profile' of the ride is going to have an influence as well. But this was a race, with live tracking, and some participants were essentially 'professional'.

I'll be interested to see what arises from the inquest. But this was a race in Australia, and not an Audax in the UK. So it's surprising to find it on these pages, given the sensitivities.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: mattc on 24 December, 2017, 08:25:03 am
Jesse's statement of requirements for the next race in March:

They said riders would need to pass a safety check and be required to have two front and two rear lights, a rear red reflector, reflective ankle straps and reflective tape on their bike's crank arms and seat stays.

They will also be required to wear a reflective vest and have their lights on between 4pm and 8am and when visibility is poor.

Is somewhat surprising in that this appears to suggest these basic safety requirements were not in force for this year's race.
So do you think this suggest's the organiser is admitting some laxness in this year's running? If so, he/she should probably be at that hearing - except you say that would be an admission of responsibility. Perhaps you should go, as you seem to be well versed in all the issues?
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: hellymedic on 24 December, 2017, 01:07:58 pm
I'll be interested to see what arises from the inquest. But this was a race in Australia, and not an Audax in the UK. So it's surprising to find it on these pages, given the sensitivities.

Given that Mike gave the talk after the AUK Reunion Dinner last year and some of us were chatting with him late into the night thereafter, any discussion of matters about his tragic death does not surprise me.

The crass insensitivity of some posters is another matter...
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Charlie Polecat on 24 December, 2017, 02:31:54 pm
Quote
I'll be interested to see what arises from the inquest. But this was a race in Australia, and not an Audax in the UK. So it's surprising to find it on these pages, given the sensitivities.

Fair point, but long distance unsupported riding or racing is bread and butter to many of us - which is why we ride rando rides - so the story - in this case one with a sad ending - of a person of the stature of Mike who epitomises the ethos of those of us who ride into the dark with only our wits and courage to guide us, is so impelling - wherever we live or ride in the world.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: hellymedic on 24 December, 2017, 02:37:10 pm
Any belief that any form of PPE will protect or defend you from a dozy or homicidal driver is sadly totally delusional.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: LMT on 24 December, 2017, 03:00:33 pm
Any belief that any form of PPE will protect or defend you from a dozy or homicidal driver is sadly totally delusional.

Agreed.

And anything above what is lawfully required should be down to the rider.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Charlie Polecat on 24 December, 2017, 04:39:00 pm
Quote
And anything above what is lawfully required should be down to the rider.

Is there a law saying what is required?
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: JohnL on 24 December, 2017, 04:49:42 pm
Quote
And anything above what is lawfully required should be down to the rider.

Is there a law saying what is required?
Of course there’s a law in most (all?) civilised countries.

I really don’t think this is an appropriate thread to troll on.

John
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 24 December, 2017, 04:51:33 pm
The traffic laws are basically harmonised across the country.

https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/rules/wheeled-devices/bicycle
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Exit Stage Left on 24 December, 2017, 05:33:44 pm
I'll be interested to see what arises from the inquest. But this was a race in Australia, and not an Audax in the UK. So it's surprising to find it on these pages, given the sensitivities.

Given that Mike gave the talk after the AUK Reunion Dinner last year and some of us were chatting with him late into the night thereafter, any discussion of matters about his tragic death does not surprise me.



We were at the Mersey Roads dinner that night, talking to 24 hour riders. My first 24 was the 100th running of the North Roads in 1998. It stopped fairly soon after that, following a fatality. I can understand how organisers lose heart in the face of that. So I can sympathise with the organisers of this race, either stop, or introduce new rules. Their effectiveness is debatable, but if it makes the organiser feel like running it again, then so be it.

Marshalling the night section of a '24' provides an insight into rider visibility, and driver behaviour. But it's in a Time Trial, albeit one that has AUK points. So I'll quite understand if people say it's irrelevant to Audax, with it being a race and all.

My sympathies to Mike's family at this time, and also to those who knew 'Micky' Ina.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/90535154/Cycling-community-mourns-loss-of-Japanese-rider-killed-near-Twizel
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Charlie Polecat on 25 December, 2017, 12:37:39 am
Quote
Of course there’s a law in most (all?) civilised countries.

I was asking if the poster knew what laws there were, so please don't troll if you don't know the answer - it's rude.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: C-3PO on 25 December, 2017, 02:28:39 am
Quote
Of course there’s a law in most (all?) civilised countries.

I was asking if the poster knew what laws there were, so please don't troll if you don't know the answer - it's rude.

<cough!>
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Delph Cyclist on 26 December, 2017, 09:03:50 am
Any belief that any form of PPE will protect or defend you from a dozy or homicidal driver is sadly totally delusional.

Sorry, someone hasn't been paying attention at the back.  What's PPE?
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 26 December, 2017, 09:08:39 am
Personal Protective Equipment - in my workplace, typically hi-viz vest, hard hat and safety boots.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: alfapete on 26 December, 2017, 10:42:02 am
Personal Protective Equipment - in my workplace, typically hi-viz vest, hard hat and safety boots.

...or in mine: gloves, mask and glasses.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 27 December, 2017, 10:22:37 am
The wearing of hi viz and reflective clothing is an interesting subject. My personal opinion is that it's effectiveness like helmets and use of daytime lights is overstated. Like most things in this field these items fall into the "well they must help. Just look at them". There is some evidence that overdoing the lights and viability equipment make you more likely to cause road incidents because drivers are distracted and as any driving instructor knows you steer with your eyes.

As yet I think we are all in the same position and do not know the full details of the incident. Let us wait and see what the outcome is and hope that the outcome this is supported by evidence.

BB
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: SoreTween on 30 August, 2018, 02:33:20 pm
Anna is seeking help with costs of attending the inquest.
https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/mikehall2018

Donated.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: mattc on 30 August, 2018, 08:02:20 pm
Blimey - that got upto £6k quick!

Thanks Mr Tween.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: ian_oli on 31 August, 2018, 11:55:23 am
It was 8K plus just now. I have no idea how long the inquest is likely to last but I reckon she will want to spend a lot more on a decent lawyer than she has budgeted for.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Charlie Polecat on 31 August, 2018, 03:57:39 pm
Quote
but I reckon she will want to spend a lot more on a decent lawyer than she has budgeted for.

I certainly hope Mike's family gets some kind of closure, but I'm not sure if you are implying there is a case to be answered - thus the need for a 'decent lawyer'?

Regretfully, people get killed on the roads all the time - unfortunately it's what happens when bikes and cars are on the same roads at the same time - without needing to rush to a legal settlement.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: L CC on 31 August, 2018, 04:05:54 pm
Quote
but I reckon she will want to spend a lot more on a decent lawyer than she has budgeted for.

I certainly hope Mike's family gets some kind of closure, but I'm not sure if you are implying there is a case to be answered - thus the need for a 'decent lawyer'?

Regretfully, people get killed on the roads all the time - unfortunately it's what happens when bikes and cars are on the same roads at the same time - without needing to rush to a legal settlement.

Generally, if there's cars and bikes involved, one of them is not acting safely. It's why civilised countries have presumed liability.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: JohnL on 31 August, 2018, 04:12:26 pm
Quote
but I reckon she will want to spend a lot more on a decent lawyer than she has budgeted for.

I certainly hope Mike's family gets some kind of closure, but I'm not sure if you are implying there is a case to be answered - thus the need for a 'decent lawyer'?

Regretfully, people get killed on the roads all the time - unfortunately it's what happens when bikes and cars are on the same roads at the same time - without needing to rush to a legal settlement.

As I understand it, the purpose of the lawyer will be to represent the family at the inquest. They ask questions on the families behalf and assist them in establishing what happened, as well as explaining the processes to the family. It’s not about compo.

I think that’s right anyway.

John
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Charlie Polecat on 31 August, 2018, 04:25:37 pm
Fair enough.

Does anyone know what if any steps are being taken to enact PL in Britain?

In the states it wouldn't have a hope in hell passing.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: mattc on 31 August, 2018, 07:35:34 pm
Fair enough.

Does anyone know what if any steps are being taken to enact PL in Britain?

In the states it wouldn't have a hope in hell passing.
Lord Danesfort was the first to try back in 1934. https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/media-centre/blog/2015/08/cycling-accidents-and-presumed-liability-uk-vs-europe/

CTC / CyclingUK are still campaigning for it - god knows whether it stands any hope in hell, as the UK is still pretty car-obsessed.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Charlie Polecat on 31 August, 2018, 10:00:26 pm
"Australian coroners are responsible for investigating and determining the cause of death for those cases reported to them."

I get most of my knowledge about Coroners Courts from such as Midsummer Murders, and as far as I know there is not an opportunity to cross examine witnesses, so the need for Mike's family to go to the expense of hiring a lawyer is a question.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: CrinklyLion on 31 August, 2018, 10:28:21 pm
https://www.courts.act.gov.au/magistrates/courts/coroners_court/information-about-the-coroners-court
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: jsabine on 31 August, 2018, 10:52:41 pm
"Australian coroners are responsible for investigating and determining the cause of death for those cases reported to them."

I get most of my knowledge about Coroners Courts from such as Midsummer Murders, and as far as I know there is not an opportunity to cross examine witnesses, so the need for Mike's family to go to the expense of hiring a lawyer is a question.

Midsomer Murders is i) fiction and ii) set in the UK, so I am at a loss to see what possible relevance you think it has to Mike Hall's death or the inquest thereinto, unless you are (yet again) choosing to behave like a trolling wanker.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: JohnL on 01 September, 2018, 08:56:55 am
https://www.courts.act.gov.au/magistrates/courts/coroners_court/information-about-the-coroners-court
Very useful, looks like the same as the U.K. the relevant bit is:

“Any person who, in the opinion of the Coroner, has a sufficient interest in the subject matter of the inquest may, upon application receive the leave of the Coroner to appear in person or be legally represented and examine and cross examine any witnesses relevant to the inquest.”

John
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: C-3PO on 01 September, 2018, 03:19:28 pm
"Australian coroners are responsible for investigating and determining the cause of death for those cases reported to them."

I get most of my knowledge about Coroners Courts from such as Midsummer Murders, and as far as I know there is not an opportunity to cross examine witnesses, so the need for Mike's family to go to the expense of hiring a lawyer is a question.

Midsomer Murders is i) fiction and ii) set in the UK, so I am at a loss to see what possible relevance you think it has to Mike Hall's death or the inquest thereinto, unless you are (yet again) choosing to behave like a trolling wanker.

Many in yacf and Audax UK mourn Mike's death with great pain.

Please respect his untimely passing with some dignity.

This is not the place for blame-shifting or trolling.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Jaded on 02 September, 2018, 01:37:54 am
Fair enough.

Does anyone know what if any steps are being taken to enact PL in Britain?

In the states it wouldn't have a hope in hell passing.

Start a new thread you insensitive idiot.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: The Bonk on 02 September, 2018, 07:02:00 am
Why hasn't Polecat been banned?
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Hot Flatus on 02 September, 2018, 09:36:48 am
Why hasn't Polecat been banned?

Humour value?
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Ham on 24 September, 2018, 10:55:18 am
This makes for very depressing reading https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/sep/24/mike-hall-british-distance-cyclist-in-hunger-games-on-wheels-when-killed
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: tornandfrayed on 24 September, 2018, 11:09:40 am
A nice line in victim blaming there.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Redlight on 24 September, 2018, 11:13:20 am
The headline is very unpleasant but I can understand why the sub has lifted that comment from the coroner's assistant out of the story.  It should really have been titled: Inexperienced and distracted driver kills normally dressed man on a bicycle.

The rest seems the usual shit - driver wasn't paying attention, kills cyclist, everyone asks what the cyclist was wearing.  The only odd thing is the comment that his rear light was hardly visible. I find that hard to believe.

Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: k_green on 24 September, 2018, 11:18:55 am
The rest seems the usual shit - driver wasn't paying attention, kills cyclist, everyone asks what the cyclist was wearing.  The only odd thing is the comment that his rear light was hardly visible. I find that hard to believe.

An article from an Australian site says the rear light was at the same height as the lights/reflectors on the barriers, as though somehow that was a problem (would you not be trying to avoid the barriers?!)
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Phil W on 24 September, 2018, 11:48:01 am
The headline is very unpleasant but I can understand why the sub has lifted that comment from the coroner's assistant out of the story.  It should really have been titled: Inexperienced and distracted driver kills normally dressed man on a bicycle.

The rest seems the usual shit - driver wasn't paying attention, kills cyclist, everyone asks what the cyclist was wearing.  The only odd thing is the comment that his rear light was hardly visible. I find that hard to believe.

I have complained to the Guardian News & Media’s internal ombudsman guardian.readers@theguardian.com about the poor taste title.

See https://www.theguardian.com/info/2014/sep/12/-sp-how-to-make-a-complaint-about-guardian-or-observer-content if you wish to complain as well.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: BlackSheep on 24 September, 2018, 11:52:02 am
IT IS A DIFFICULT TIME FOR US ALL. AS C3PO HAS PUT IT.

PLEASE IF YOU ARE GOING TO COMMENT KEEP IT RELEVANT AND OBJECTIVE. AND THINK OF THOSE HAVING TO RE-LIVE EVENTS FROM SOME 18 MONTHS AGO.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Exit Stage Left on 24 September, 2018, 12:14:04 pm
I got knocked off my bike on PBP 2003 by a kid on a scooter, while both of us were distracted by a cattle truck which was moving off the course to find a less congested route.

I was of course sleep-deprived at the time, so I wouldn't swear that my own reaction didn't contribute to the collision. I escaped with heavy bruising, and two buckled wheels, but reading this account makes me remember that it could have been a lot worse. I did wonder how it would have worked out if it had been. The judgement might have been pretty similar to the Australian one.

There was a fatality at PBP 2011 that would probably answer that question if I could find an inquest link. Bill Watts wrote about that and other fatalities in 2014. http://bill-watts.blogspot.com/2014/10/grief-onwheels-rememberingrandonneurs.html

My sympathies are with Mike's family, and with the families of others who have died doing what they loved.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Ivan on 24 September, 2018, 01:01:20 pm
Anna (Mike's partner) has been posting on FB:

A long day in court today with nothing to report I'm afraid. I will keep you all update when I have something to report.
Thank you again for all the support and love. It's keeping me strong out here! Canberra and Melbourne cycling community have been amazingly supportive.
#BeMoreMike #NothingWorthDoingIsEverEasy

I have only just seen the Guardian article. It's a report of the first day of a three day inquest... There are another 2 days to get to the truth of what happened that morning. Anna xx

This article explains a little why I am here: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/anna-s-long-journey-to-bear-witness-for-cyclist-partner-at-inquest-20180923-p505hp.html
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 24 September, 2018, 01:20:21 pm
The rest seems the usual shit - driver wasn't paying attention, kills cyclist, everyone asks what the cyclist was wearing.  The only odd thing is the comment that his rear light was hardly visible. I find that hard to believe.

An article from an Australian site says the rear light was at the same height as the lights/reflectors on the barriers, as though somehow that was a problem (would you not be trying to avoid the barriers?!)
To put some explanation/perspective on this, rural australian roads have barriers or posts continually along the road, mostly with red/white reflectors . Many of the roads have trees right up to the edge of the road, and the reflectors on posts are of great assistance in determining the bends in the road.

So *if* mike's light was the same height as the reflectors and *if* it was steady (rather than flashing), I can understand that it would very hard to distinguish from the reflectors.

However, if Mike had a flashing rear light, it would have stood out very well compared to the reflectors and been easily noticeable. Only a very inexperienced or innattentive driver would not pick out a flashing light among the red reflectors.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Greenbank on 24 September, 2018, 01:42:45 pm
Headline has been changed to: "British ultra-endurance cyclist Mike Hall killed almost instantly, inquest told" but the Guardian URL remains the same at the moment.

As someone on LFGSS has said, it's almost certainly syndicated copy from the Australian Associated Press, not original Guardian content. But still...
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: alwyn on 24 September, 2018, 01:56:37 pm
Although the headlines today have been somewhat distasteful, I hope that they won't deter people from looking critically at what happened. I don't think it's at all helpful to plead victim-blaming whenever any reporting fails to exonerate anyone other than the driver from any culpability in incidents such as these. Instead I suspect strongly there will probably be lessons I and other riders and organisers can learn from.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Redlight on 25 September, 2018, 08:39:21 am
I suspect strongly there will probably be lessons I and other riders and organisers can learn from.

Almost certainly, but out of consideration for this who knew Mike and will be finding all of this particularly distressing to relive, maybe that's a discussion for another time and another thread.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: EllysH on 25 September, 2018, 11:27:29 am
The rest seems the usual shit - driver wasn't paying attention, kills cyclist, everyone asks what the cyclist was wearing.  The only odd thing is the comment that his rear light was hardly visible. I find that hard to believe.

An article from an Australian site says the rear light was at the same height as the lights/reflectors on the barriers, as though somehow that was a problem (would you not be trying to avoid the barriers?!)
To put some explanation/perspective on this, rural australian roads have barriers or posts continually along the road, mostly with red/white reflectors . Many of the roads have trees right up to the edge of the road, and the reflectors on posts are of great assistance in determining the bends in the road.

So *if* mike's light was the same height as the reflectors and *if* it was steady (rather than flashing), I can understand that it would very hard to distinguish from the reflectors.

However, if Mike had a flashing rear light, it would have stood out very well compared to the reflectors and been easily noticeable. Only a very inexperienced or innattentive driver would not pick out a flashing light among the red reflectors.
I'm not sure I understand, whether Mike stood out against the posts or not, surely the driver - who thought he'd hit a kangaroo - should have been aware of the side of the road?

Edit: missed a word

Sent from my PLK-L01 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: hulver on 25 September, 2018, 12:58:53 pm
To put some explanation/perspective on this, rural australian roads have barriers or posts continually along the road, mostly with red/white reflectors . Many of the roads have trees right up to the edge of the road, and the reflectors on posts are of great assistance in determining the bends in the road.

So *if* mike's light was the same height as the reflectors and *if* it was steady (rather than flashing), I can understand that it would very hard to distinguish from the reflectors.

However, if Mike had a flashing rear light, it would have stood out very well compared to the reflectors and been easily noticeable. Only a very inexperienced or innattentive driver would not pick out a flashing light among the red reflectors.

From the video I've seen of a car that was following him, his back light was steady, but there was a very large puddle of moving white light ahead of him where his front light was lighting up the road.

https://www.facebook.com/Bikepacking/videos/691735341190480/
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Hot Flatus on 25 September, 2018, 05:33:07 pm
As ever, part of the story is about driver expectations. One witness was 'surprised' to see a cyclist on this road at that time.  It is possible that few of the drivers expected to see a cyclist...and therefore they weren't looking for one. Interestingly, several of them say they thought the cyclist was an animal, and the likelihood is that they do not exert the same care driving amongst animals as they a human. After all, there are no legal consequences, nor the same level of emotional consequences for them.  Several of the drivers report almost hitting/hitting Mike.

The other side of the coin with regards to these sorts of events are the responsibilities of the cyclists.It is no good siding with all cyclists because we are cyclists. These events are races, and at the top end the winner is not necessarily going to be the rider with the strongest physical characteristics but the rider who had the least sleep.  The elephant in the room is that for those intending to win, these events are a contest of sleep deprivation.

How would we feel if there were solo driving events across continents with no enforced sleep breaks, and drivers driving dangerously tired, with the similar risks to driving drunk?

In my view, regardless of the circumstances of this tragic event, this model of racing needs to change with enforced checkpoints with enforced rest and sleep. 

And yes, there is also an issue for audax...Not for people like me who can cover 100 miles at 18mph and earn enough time in hand for a full night's sleep, every night, on a multiday event...but for those forced to ride with little or no sleep.

Again, how would we view car drivers who drive almost non-stop for 3 days? In fact, with cycling it is even worse because the physical nature of the riding adds a huge element to the fatigue. Gross hypocrisy is at play here.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Hot Flatus on 25 September, 2018, 06:03:31 pm
I'll wait to see what the coroner says.


As will I, although I am aware that the coroner may be biased towards the driver due to the culture of car dominance.

Quote
One of the interesting things about this sort of tracker-based racing is that it acts like a tachograph. So enforced rest breaks could be accommodated within that formula.

Yep.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Exit Stage Left on 25 September, 2018, 06:15:27 pm
I'll wait to see what the coroner says.


As will I, although I am aware that the coroner may be biased towards the driver due to the culture of car dominance.



He may echo your views upthread.

Quote
The rules to the 2017 Indian Pacific Wheels Race were tendered in court as evidence, and counsel assisting read some sections regarding rider safety aloud.

"No-one will help a rider if things go wrong in any way," he said while reading from the rule book.

He said the 2017 edition of the rules were "effectively silent" on safety issues, though they were changed ahead of the anticipated 2018 race.

Some riders complete up to 400 kilometres a day, sleeping for as little as four hours a night.

They ride without support vehicles.

The inquest heard the route chosen by the race organisers is not the most direct route from Fremantle to Sydney, instead taking participants on "smaller, challenging roads".

Senior Constable Adam Potts told the inquest the Monaro Highway was not a common route for road cyclists, given its heavy traffic and narrow path.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-24/celebrated-endurance-cyclist-mike-hall-22difficult-to-see22-i/10299444
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Hot Flatus on 25 September, 2018, 06:23:25 pm
He may, and if he made a general comment I would agree with him. However,  in Mike's case it is hard to know whether his fatigue contributed to his collision. There is nothing to suggest that he was not riding anywhere other than where he should have been in terms of road position when the collision occured.

The only reported comment regarding Mike's riding was from the lorry driver who said Mike cut across him when Mike was turning (I presume turned right with an oncoming lorry), and that Mike cut it fine.  IIRC one of Mike's final tweets was that he was so tired he was having trouble seeing (or words to that effect)...
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Karla on 25 September, 2018, 06:45:45 pm
.The only odd thing is the comment that his rear light was hardly visible. I find that hard to believe.

The headlight being hard to see bit was from a 'police recreation'.  We might all think that actual video of Mike riding is far superior to one of those, but who knows what the Aussie coroners will think.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 25 September, 2018, 07:06:55 pm
Aussie coroners, along with a large percentage of the population, are generally not big fans of cycling and cyclists. NSW has the most anti-cycling road rules in Oz. The ACT is a bit better.

In my experience, the Monaro Highway is shit to ride, mostly because of close-passing drivers.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Peat on 26 September, 2018, 07:37:41 am
Some notes on the inquest: https://cycle.org.au/index.php/articles/mike-hall-inquest
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Frank9755 on 26 September, 2018, 09:13:54 am
How would we feel if there were solo driving events across continents with no enforced sleep breaks, and drivers driving dangerously tired

I'm surprised that you can't see the main difference, that a motor vehicle driven by someone who is tired is a danger to others in a way that a bike is not.  The other significant difference is that it is far harder to fall asleep while exerting yourself on a bike with the wind in your face than it is sitting in a warm, cosy car. 
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Frank9755 on 26 September, 2018, 09:21:24 am
He may, and if he made a general comment I would agree with him. However,  in Mike's case it is hard to know whether his fatigue contributed to his collision. There is nothing to suggest that he was not riding anywhere other than where he should have been in terms of road position when the collision occured.

The only reported comment regarding Mike's riding was from the lorry driver who said Mike cut across him when Mike was turning (I presume turned right with an oncoming lorry), and that Mike cut it fine.  IIRC one of Mike's final tweets was that he was so tired he was having trouble seeing (or words to that effect)...

'Hard to know' is understating it by a couple of orders of magnitude!  There's no evidence whatsoever to suggest Mike was tired: he'd just spent the night in a motel.  Further, there's no evidence to suggest that being tired while on a bike makes you more likely to be hit by a vehicle - that's what the expert witness said.

The driver, on the other hand, had got up at 4:30 am having had his sleep disrupted by a newborn baby.  The expert witness said he 'could not rule out' driver fatigue being a factor.

If you read the truck driver's statement he says that Mike turned in front of him but he didn't feel the need to brake, so it sounds like a sharp manouevre  but not a dangerous one.   

Mike was having problems with his eyesight but that didn't appear to be tiredness-related. 
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Peter on 26 September, 2018, 11:50:52 am
I haven't read all this thread and I, like others, have no idea what happened and who, if anyone was "at fault".  But I'm just puzzled about what I seem to remember being said on two separate occasions.  On the first, the driver said (I think) that he thought he'd hit a kangaroo.  On the second, that Mike Hall turned in front of him.  Have I remembered that right?

Peter
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: simonp on 26 September, 2018, 12:02:15 pm
I haven't read all this thread and I, like others, have no idea what happened and who, if anyone was "at fault".  But I'm just puzzled about what I seem to remember being said on two separate occasions.  On the first, the driver said (I think) that he thought he'd hit a kangaroo.  On the second, that Mike Hall turned in front of him.  Have I remembered that right?

Peter

You're conflating two different drivers.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Peter on 26 September, 2018, 12:06:59 pm
Ah, thank you Simon.  I thought it was a bit odd!

Peter
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Hot Flatus on 26 September, 2018, 12:18:17 pm
How would we feel if there were solo driving events across continents with no enforced sleep breaks, and drivers driving dangerously tired

I'm surprised that you can't see the main difference, that a motor vehicle driven by someone who is tired is a danger to others in a way that a bike is not.  The other significant difference is that it is far harder to fall asleep while exerting yourself on a bike with the wind in your face than it is sitting in a warm, cosy car.

The discussion has moved here:

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=109685.0
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Ivan on 27 September, 2018, 01:58:42 pm
From Patricia Hall (Mike's mum) on FB:

I came half way across the world for my boy. I attended the Inquest and sat for three days listening to the evidence I knew whatever the findings will be that I have to live with it. There is no blame no anger and no recriminations
I went for my son who always asked people to be kind to each other and have empathy. I saw a young lad with fear in his eyes with sorrow in his heart and I took him in my arms and held him tight as he sobbed that he was sorry for what he had done. I hugged him and his girlfriend told him I forgave him and asked him to try to move on and find a way foward to look. after his young family and to have a good life . I came to Australia to find answers and I did I found the answer all around in the courtroom I saw destructive anger that is negative I saw people so wrapped up in their own need that it destroyed what my son stood for But I also saw incredible steadfastness and the ability to reach out and have compassion. I came away with clarity I had done want Mike would have done I forgave Be Kind to us

Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Ham on 27 September, 2018, 02:30:50 pm
Wow. That's emotional.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 27 September, 2018, 03:39:49 pm
Wow, Just Wow.

I hope I would have that amount of grace if it happens to me.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Von Broad on 27 September, 2018, 04:17:39 pm
Wow. That's emotional.

That most certainly is.
Here's wishing her well.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: aidan.f on 27 September, 2018, 08:29:57 pm
I have a  friend who lost her lifelong cyclist husband in an RTA last year. She too has forgiven the driver and was telling me this morning that she would rather he was not charged with careless driving. Another, directly involved in a terrible event who has had her life torn apart yet has given us all something very special by her actions.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: tonyh on 28 September, 2018, 08:33:02 am
Very very much appreciation to Patricia for posting that.
Title: Re: Mike Hall RIP
Post by: Shugg McGraw on 29 September, 2018, 10:29:12 am
This is so sad and beautiful. Not bad people the Halls.