Author Topic: Trike or bike or velo dilemma  (Read 9256 times)

Cycling Daddy

  • "We shall have an adventure by and by," said Don Q
Trike or bike or velo dilemma
« on: 30 January, 2016, 07:39:31 am »
Hi
I suppose that this post might be redundant since I suspect my mind is already made up but I have an open mind.  However, thought I would post as a reality check.   
I am thinking about getting a recumbent trike.  (ICE probably Sprint).  I have been ‘reading up’ on this a bit.  My understanding is that overall it will likely end up a bit slower (circa 2kph) than a DF but be more comfortable?  That in terms of performance it will do better on flatter rides. 
I am impelled upon this search because I fancy spending a £xxxx on a new bike I find that longer rides say 300km + are limited by comfort rather than stamina issues and anyway a trike sounds like a go kart so should be a hoot and I like being different.  I also have heart issues which mean I need to stop on the way up some longer inclines and have to spin anyway. 
My objective this year is to ride Borders of Belgium (1000km BRM in September) and LEL next year.  Some of the BOB riders are suggesting that it will be a bit of a challenge on a trike.   My heart tells me to buy today my head says listen to advice and weigh up your options.  I have already spent hundreds of pounds on bike fit and different saddles.  I have had my heart fixed and my legs are being done shortly which should help.  I am a full value rider so a 2kph reduction might be important but my feeling is that greater comfort will improve my performance (the fix on my heart has also done that).  Very grateful if anyone has any advice with about whether to spend the money in the first place or as to the precise model. 
Les
PS I do not have a beard does this mean I am DQd
Too much sanity may be madness. And maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #1 on: 30 January, 2016, 08:09:41 am »
No ,of course not !.beards do not take long to grow  ;D .
You will find the trike slower uphill but overall the comfort and ability to climb anything you have traction on is great. Maybe the vortex trice would offer you the least hill climbing speed loss . coming downhill on my adventure trice at40mph makes me ;D
the slower you go the more you see

Auntie Helen

  • 6 Wheels in Germany
Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #2 on: 30 January, 2016, 08:13:25 am »
Reading what you say, I wonder if a recumbent bike might not be a better option. Trikes are slower than DF bikes although give a huge fun factor, a recumbent bike ought to be faster.

Have a look at Troytec bikes for an idea of fast recumbent two-wheelers.

I love my ICE Sprint (see www.auntiehelen.co.uk) but I am slower than I would be on a two wheeler...
My blog on cycling in Germany and eating German cake – http://www.auntiehelen.co.uk


Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #3 on: 30 January, 2016, 08:14:30 am »
Hi CD, I'm by no means an experienced triker yet, but I can give you a newbie perspective, it might help your decision.
I made the upgrade from df to bent trike in October, just like you as above 300k I was getting blimmin uncomfortable and became more and more enticed to the dark side. I don't know a huge amount about the ICE models but I got a Catrike 700 and tbh I would be surprised if I ever go back to df, possibly the best decision in bike buying I ever made. Flat roads = fun, downhills = freaking fun, uphills = a bit slower and spinnier.

Its like being a little kid again, when your mate had a great go cart and you got to have a go in it.

I too primarily got one for longer audax and eventually LEL next year (might see you there). Sure I'm about 1mph slower than on my df but in terms of fun and comfort its freaking leagues ahead, plus I'm yet to get outside and off the rollers since November to see if I've got my bent legs yet, I think that could address some of the speed disparity.

I think what finally helped me make the decision and get rid of some of my long distance fears was reading Andy Allsop's book and seeing those guys on the elliptigo's doing LEL previously.

In short, my advice is a heavily biased do it you wont regret it!
Hairy Triker.

Cycling Daddy

  • "We shall have an adventure by and by," said Don Q
Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #4 on: 30 January, 2016, 08:32:34 am »
Reading what you say, I wonder if a recumbent bike might not be a better option. Trikes are slower than DF bikes although give a huge fun factor, a recumbent bike ought to be faster.

Have a look at Troytec bikes for an idea of fast recumbent two-wheelers.

I love my ICE Sprint (see www.auntiehelen.co.uk) but I am slower than I would be on a two wheeler...
Hi Thank you for a prompt post.  I had already read your blog which was really useful and encouraged me...I have been thinking about this for sometime.  I can see what you mean about a bike rather than trike...but is it easy to stop and start on hills.  If I hit 140 bpm I have to stop and allow HR to settle down.  I am quite good at spotting stopping points and am not above walking up...not sure how that option would be on a recumbent bike either though.  L
Too much sanity may be madness. And maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

Auntie Helen

  • 6 Wheels in Germany
Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #5 on: 30 January, 2016, 08:36:07 am »
I have never ridden a recumbent bike as I have to be really careful about falling off my bikes and the trike was the obvious safest option but I have read the experiences of others here and it seems to be something one can learn well enough. I have ridden with my friend Morten here in Germany and he was able to ride his recumbent bike incredibly slowly with no stability issues at all. He's an audaxer so has loads of kilometres under his belt, but it seems that practice certainly helps!
My blog on cycling in Germany and eating German cake – http://www.auntiehelen.co.uk


Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #6 on: 30 January, 2016, 10:31:06 am »
 I may not be the most qualified person to advise here but your post includes some comments that suggest our situations might be similar. Until last October, I’ve been Audaxing fairly seriously since 2007, having then been recently retired and having the time to devote to the bike.

Since then, I’d maintained an unbroken RRTY and annual SR, gained my Brevet 25,000 and notched up a PBP and two LELs. I mention this not to boast (after all, in the AUK annals, it’s a pretty commonplace palmares) but to put the following into context.
By 2013 however, age and decrepitude had caught up with me and I was suffering an unacceptable level of discomfort on the bike, primarily upper body stuff – pains in my hands, arms and head/neck. I’d done all the bike fit analysis, custom frame and position tuning stuff and still I was in pain. I don’t possess the ‘athletic gene’ and have always been a ‘full value’ rider; every Audax ride had become a race against the clock and I was no longer enjoying my Audaxing. I came to the conclusion that my Audaxing days were drawing to a close. But I didn’t want to give up without a fight and I’d always been curious about recumbents. Plus, I enjoy tinkering and a ‘bent would be a whole new area to play in!

To cut a long story short, I then went through a sustained learning curve involving several two wheelers and an ICE VTX. So how does this waffle help? Well, my conclusions are: (a) for a newcomer to recumbent riding at least, the trike is a lot slower than a two wheeler; (b) the aerodynamic advantage is available only to stronger riders who can power the machine up to the speeds where it counts – otherwise the extra weight (and drag if on three wheels) counts too much against you; (c) mastering a two wheeler is tricky if like me, you are challenged in the power-to-weight ratio area – the stall speed when climbing is rather higher than a DF – you can’t get out of the saddle to balance; (d) if your objective is proper long distance Audax, you need to pay close attention to getting the machine weight down.

Now, I have to admit that there are many riders out there to whom the above will be nonsense and who will say that they have no problem muscling a 30+ lb machine around a 600km Audax every week. But those people are the ones who have the fitness to do it. If like me, you are on the cusp of only just being able to manage to get round within the time limit on a DF, a ‘bent will not be a silver bullet. The ‘bent – whether two wheels or three - will be slower (at least at first) and you will need sufficient power-to-weight capabilities to compensate for the less efficient riding position.

I’m not saying a ‘bent isn’t a good idea for Audax – on balance, I still think they can be the perfect tool for the job – it’s just that, for me at least, it hasn’t been a straightforward solution. The usual advice for people wondering if a particular bike is right for them is to say ‘try before you buy’ but this doesn’t work for two wheeled ‘bents. You can’t just tool up and try a two wheeler because the balancing/starting/stopping learning curve takes too long and there are too many different models to be able to pick the right one at short notice.

The trike however, is different. The ICE is such a blast that even if I had to get rid of every other bike I own, I’d keep the ICE. Over longer distances especially, the ability to relax, to eat on the move, to see around corners, to stop and start halfway up a hill, to pull over anywhere and have a comfortable bed in which to doze, and the greater respect received from motorised road users, for me, all combine to make it a very attractive proposition. For Audax though, you will need a better power-to-weight ratio than on a two wheeler to maintain the necessary speed, given the extra drag and weight.

There a number of other issues I could rabbit on about, but this waffle is long enough already! I hope this helps.
 
 

Cycling Daddy

  • "We shall have an adventure by and by," said Don Q
Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #7 on: 30 January, 2016, 11:20:29 am »
Thank you Pedro.  Yes 'you speak my mind' in many ways.  I have an idea about this weight thingy based on the fact that I personally carry a 20 kilo bonus of which I could be rid.   This could make a trike 'lighter' than my DF :)  Not much I can do about the RR of the third wheel.  There seems to be a trend here to say get the 'lightest' possible.  SPrint X or VTX.  I was put off from the VTX because I wondered how comfortable it would stay being that laid back.  OTH To buy then need to sell at huge loss in order to upgrade is an unfortunate experience with at least two rounds of marital strife rather than one.   Anyone ride a VTZ X over longer distances??
Too much sanity may be madness. And maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #8 on: 30 January, 2016, 12:36:59 pm »
My "journey to the dark side" FWIW is about a ten months old so far. 

Inspired very much by a sense of "they look cool" plus the possibilities of going faster or at least as fast with less effort, plus increasing discomfort in wrists, arms, shoulders, ar$e.  Fitness not an issue, I was able to complete 100k+ rides in the heat of Majorca last year and up and down Alps in Salzburg the year before, plus some pretty decent running in ultramarathons.

I was also a little trepidatious, but had in my mind bikes rather than trikes (I'm not that old yet was in my mind).  I tried a few out at a local supplier and found that although there is a definite learning curve, the art of stopping and starting and different steering behaviour are the most significant issues.  Not many hills where I live, but I've found the main thing is just gear down and twiddle.

I bought an ICE B2, which is pretty heavy, but versatile and a good learning machine I've found, also cementing the dark side as the way forward in my mind. Now that I think I'm OK riding one of these things (about 800km later) I'm planning a build of my own lighter machine.  Although I would Audax on the ICE, I want to faster as well as further.

Value - I think there is a lot of evidence that they hold it fairly well.

Did I mention I have an ICE B2 for sale, 26" disc brake wheels, rear rack, mudguards, 3 x 7 speed?
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Cycling Daddy

  • "We shall have an adventure by and by," said Don Q
Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #9 on: 30 January, 2016, 01:02:39 pm »
NOt sure that I am going to go down the 2 Wheel route however :)
L
Too much sanity may be madness. And maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

Torslanda

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Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #10 on: 30 January, 2016, 01:57:04 pm »
Biggest advantage of a trike is that you don't have to get off it when you stop.

Redshift OTP has covered many thousands of miles on a Windcheetah. I happen to have one for sale.

What do you mean, 'shameless'? ;D
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #11 on: 30 January, 2016, 02:46:58 pm »
 
.............. I personally carry a 20 kilo bonus..
Likewise - it's the main reason for my inability to maintain Audax pace!
 
..... of which I could be rid.  ...
If only I could lose it! (But that's the subject of other threads!)
 
....  There seems to be a trend here to say get the 'lightest' possible.  SPrint X or VTX.  I was put off from the VTX because I wondered how comfortable it would stay being that laid back.  OTH To buy then need to sell at huge loss in order to upgrade is an unfortunate experience with at least two rounds of marital strife rather than one.
I was fortunate in being given leave by SWMBO to budget for a VTX+ and I went for it on the grounds of it being the lightest. Delivered, it was a shade under 29 lbs with pedals. And yes, in that form, it did seem to go like a rat up a drainpipe. The trouble is, with all the Audax paraphenalia you have to sling on any bike and with me swapping out the skiny tyres for Schwalbe Trykers and a 35mm Marathon Racer rear, then adding a dynohub and lamps, banana bags, water tools, etc. it rapidly turned into feeling very much more 'tourer' and I have wondered if a carefully specced Sprint would have come out very similar but at a much reduced cost. I've also occasionally struggled with an insufficiently low bottom gear and a 26" rear wheel would help with that too, but that's really more down to my abysmal fitness! Most of the time it's OK although I do take care with my knees - hardsheel seated 'bents are dangerous for knees!
 
 I used a small wheeled Q for a month borrowed from a friend before I got my VTX+ and it was definitely slower, though not by a huge amount. It had rear suspension but the VTX on a larger section rear tyre on the bigger wheel is as comfortable I'd say. My experience has been that shocks from big holes are slightly less with the suspension but that the continuous road buzz is damped equally well by the VTX.
 
 The most significant aspect with regard to comfort, for me, is my neck. And this applies to both three and two wheelers. After many years of straining to keep my head up (backwards) to see down the road ahead of me, the 'bents (and this applies to all I've tried) now require muscular strength in the opposite direction and I've found a head/neck rest is essential. But this doesn't seem to be a common complaint and I think that once again, it's proably down to my particular lack of fitness. It's also something that practice should deal with over time. I do admit to having the seat raked fairly well back, albeit not absolutely as far as it will go.
 
 
Anyone ride a VTZ X over longer distances??
The most I've done on mine is a 300km but there were several used successfully on PBP this year.
 
 

LMT

Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #12 on: 30 January, 2016, 08:39:10 pm »
I've ridden both bikes and trikes and I'd go with a bike for audaxing as it's simply easier. Easier as in faster, more time in the bank to get round.

As for models, M5 carbon high racer, Schilliter Encore or a Cruzbike V20/Silvio. I personally have a Cruzbike V20 and it is the fastest bike I've ever ridden, far faster then my trike when I had it and even quicker than anyone on a DF.

It's very unfortunate that the market is shifting over to trikes as sales of these have rocketed whilst sales of two wheelers have declined.

Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #13 on: 30 January, 2016, 09:29:43 pm »
Try and get in contact with Kevin Dunseath at D-Tek, Tel. 01353 648 177, Email dtekhpvs@btconnect.com
He's based in Little Thetford near Ely.
You can book a morning/afternoon and try out a range of second-hand bents that he owns.
If you find one you like you could always buy it for a longer trial.
If you don't get on with it, then just resell it for what you bought it for.

The advantage of going to D-Tek is you start on a fairly upright bent which are easy to start on but not fast.
And as the day goes on and you get used to them, you get more recumbent which are harder to start but faster when you get used to them.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #14 on: 30 January, 2016, 11:13:38 pm »
Try and get in contact with Kevin Dunseath at D-Tek, Tel. 01353 648 177, Email dtekhpvs@btconnect.com
He's based in Little Thetford near Ely.
You can book a morning/afternoon and try out a range of second-hand bents that he owns.
If you find one you like you could always buy it for a longer trial.
If you don't get on with it, then just resell it for what you bought it for.

The advantage of going to D-Tek is you start on a fairly upright bent which are easy to start on but not fast.
And as the day goes on and you get used to them, you get more recumbent which are harder to start but faster when you get used to them.

Little Thetford being about 5 miles from me, so you could try them all at his place, and then come and buy mine :).

That is a good suggestion though, I did the same before I bought the B2.  He is not the easiest to get hold of though
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Cycling Daddy

  • "We shall have an adventure by and by," said Don Q
Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #15 on: 31 January, 2016, 08:22:59 am »
There are may useful answers here.  My current state of thinking is that whilst I will still use my DF bike (club rides, commuting in London) for longer distances I need the added comfort that a bent offers. 
SO my initial choice is 2 wheels or 3. 

2 = fun, faster, will end up bailing and walking up steep longer inclines.  Ease of riding OK but takes time to get used to? Will fall off promptly if I fall asleep. Wacky.

3 = fun, slower, could ride up almost anything if I get the gearing right.  Easy to ride danger of falling asleep?  Wacky

DO I have that about right. I estimate the speed difference as about 2/3 kph.?  Walking uphill will make only a small difference to overall speed (not every hill and I can walk up as almost as fast as I can spin)

Hmmmm.  Lucky I am in no hurry. 

L
Too much sanity may be madness. And maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

Tigerrr

  • That England that was wont to conquer others Hath made a shameful conquest of itself.
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Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #16 on: 31 January, 2016, 08:26:31 am »
Looks like your real issue is being able to stop and restart on hills. Trike for you. Restarting a 2 wheel recumbent on a steep is sometimes impossible. You will however be slow, as you don't have the speed fitness to take aero benefit, you need to be a fast rider anyway to make a recumbent fast. However you will be comfortable on long rides, which is the bigger point. D tek is your source of detailed advice.
I think you may be a bit shocked at how slower it is, and surface dependant. Plus wet.
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Auntie Helen

  • 6 Wheels in Germany
Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #17 on: 31 January, 2016, 08:32:51 am »
Surface dependent is really true - I am appallingly slower when the Tarmac is rough.

The real answer to your problem is a Velomobile of course as then you will be faster, still comfortable and stay dry.
My blog on cycling in Germany and eating German cake – http://www.auntiehelen.co.uk


Mr Larrington

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Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #18 on: 31 January, 2016, 08:59:13 am »
The only times I've had to walk hills on a recumbent bike have been when I've fluffed a gear change and stalled.  On a trike a spinning rear wheel can similarly bring you to an ignominious halt, particularly if the road is wet/sandy/covered in SkogTM.  Here is what it looks like when that happens:



Sand in the gaps between the cobbles.  I had to wait to be rescued as the parking brake wouldn't hold it when I tried to get off...
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ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #19 on: 31 January, 2016, 09:05:31 am »
Looks like your real issue is being able to stop and restart on hills. Trike for you. Restarting a 2 wheel recumbent on a steep is sometimes impossible. You will however be slow, as you don't have the speed fitness to take aero benefit, you need to be a fast rider anyway to make a recumbent fast. However you will be comfortable on long rides, which is the bigger point. D tek is your source of detailed advice.
I think you may be a bit shocked at how slower it is, and surface dependant. Plus wet.

I'm just as fast on the recumbent as on a df.  The difference is effort to produce that speed.

70k on the B2, 27.3k/h @ ave hr 140, Max 155
52k on the df 27.3 k/h @ ave hr 154, Max 164

Similar conditions, triple on each, standard on the df, 44/34/22 on the bent, both with 700c wheel
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Cycling Daddy

  • "We shall have an adventure by and by," said Don Q
Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #20 on: 31 January, 2016, 09:48:29 am »
Surface dependent is really true - I am appallingly slower when the Tarmac is rough.

The real answer to your problem is a Velomobile of course as then you will be faster, still comfortable and stay dry.
Hi Aunt Helen,
I was trying to weigh velomobiles should have posted that as well.  Are they really that much faster (and how hot do they get in summer?)  compared to say a trike with fairing(s)?   I would anticipate storage challenges with a velo.  These would decrease when we move to Cornwall (3 2 years time) where we will but a property with sensible storage for the car/spare furniture the bike collection. 

3 wheel velomobile. 
Option 3  Fun and funnier, will go even faster, even slower uphill,  I assume goes like a screaming banshee downhill, faster on flat.  Storage and transport challenges, higher marital strife factor. 

Funny I posted here thinking I knew enough to make my own decisions.  As other have pointed out a trip to Ely might be in order. 
L
Too much sanity may be madness. And maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #21 on: 31 January, 2016, 10:03:57 am »
 I think Tigerrr has it about right (which is to say, he’s expressed more succinctly what I was trying to say!) There’s no doubt that practised ‘bent riders, fully acclimatised to the recumbent position, can punch their machines along as fast as the equivalent DF riders, faster if we’re talking higher speeds where the aero advantage comes into play. But for fitness-challenged riders such as myself, the aero advantage arrives only when going downhill and as we all know, there’s never enough of that to compensate for the uphill.

I’m impressed with ElyDave’s figures, especially since I believe he’s not been riding ‘bents for very long (sorry if wrong there Dave!) but I think it proves my point. It’s been many years since I could achieve an average of 27kph on a DF – at that speed, there’ll be enough aero benefit to play to the ‘bent’s strength. For those of us who make an average nearer 17kph over 200km, the aero doesn’t really happen (apart from vicious headwinds, when the ‘bent struggles less!)

The choice between a two or a three wheeled ‘bent as I see it, is a simple power-to-weight+ rolling resistance calculation. If you’ve got the grunt to power a two wheeler uphill and avoid stalling, the two wheeler wins hands down. But this uphill thing is more than just having to get off and walk occasionally – slow speed on a two wheeler means wobbling and even grinding slowly upwards can be fraught if I’m weaving dangerously about trying to steer. On top of that, I’m often at absolute maximal effort when climbing and there’s been times when I’ve brought on a form of asthmatic attack – I’ve gone so deep into the red trying to keep above stall speed that I’ve had to stop for several minutes to regain the ability to breathe, something that’s never, ever happened on a DF no matter how steep and long the ascent!

These issues however, are seriously relevant only for truly ‘full value’ riders such as myself. You (Cycling Daddy) haven’t said anything about your age or general riding speed/ability other than to say “I am a full value rider so a 2kph reduction might be important” – this could mean that, like me, a 2kph reduction in average speed will mean a fail on an Audax, or it could just mean (as for ElyDave) a shorter stay in the café halfway round!

Edited to add - if you can get to see Kevin at D-Tek it's well worth it - it's what I did and I didn't regret it. But he's not your usual bike shop and sometimes it needs patience and an open-minded approach to contact him!


 

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #22 on: 31 January, 2016, 10:14:10 am »
Pedro, your right, I started in March last year after a trip to Kevin about a month before.

I tried 4 different 2-wheelers, fell off one of them, but was hooked.

I've never tried a trike, so am a little biased.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Cycling Daddy

  • "We shall have an adventure by and by," said Don Q
Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #23 on: 31 January, 2016, 11:19:39 am »
I think Tigerrr has it about right (which is to say, he’s expressed more succinctly what I was trying to say!) There’s no doubt that practised ‘bent riders, fully acclimatised to the recumbent position, can punch their machines along as fast as the equivalent DF riders, faster if we’re talking higher speeds where the aero advantage comes into play. But for fitness-challenged riders such as myself, the aero advantage arrives only when going downhill and as we all know, there’s never enough of that to compensate for the uphill.

I’m impressed with ElyDave’s figures, especially since I believe he’s not been riding ‘bents for very long (sorry if wrong there Dave!) but I think it proves my point. It’s been many years since I could achieve an average of 27kph on a DF – at that speed, there’ll be enough aero benefit to play to the ‘bent’s strength. For those of us who make an average nearer 17kph over 200km, the aero doesn’t really happen (apart from vicious headwinds, when the ‘bent struggles less!)

The choice between a two or a three wheeled ‘bent as I see it, is a simple power-to-weight+ rolling resistance calculation. If you’ve got the grunt to power a two wheeler uphill and avoid stalling, the two wheeler wins hands down. But this uphill thing is more than just having to get off and walk occasionally – slow speed on a two wheeler means wobbling and even grinding slowly upwards can be fraught if I’m weaving dangerously about trying to steer. On top of that, I’m often at absolute maximal effort when climbing and there’s been times when I’ve brought on a form of asthmatic attack – I’ve gone so deep into the red trying to keep above stall speed that I’ve had to stop for several minutes to regain the ability to breathe, something that’s never, ever happened on a DF no matter how steep and long the ascent!

These issues however, are seriously relevant only for truly ‘full value’ riders such as myself. You (Cycling Daddy) haven’t said anything about your age or general riding speed/ability other than to say “I am a full value rider so a 2kph reduction might be important” – this could mean that, like me, a 2kph reduction in average speed will mean a fail on an Audax, or it could just mean (as for ElyDave) a shorter stay in the café halfway round!

Edited to add - if you can get to see Kevin at D-Tek it's well worth it - it's what I did and I didn't regret it. But he's not your usual bike shop and sometimes it needs patience and an open-minded approach to contact him!

Hi

66 yo, 102 kg but can drop 10kg when cycling.  I have had Afib which took me off my bike.  This is now fixed but I am wary of running my HR above 140.  I can  spin hills of 8% or so (for those who know Surrey Hills I can spin up Box Hill but would plan to walk the steep bit of White Down.  For those Up North I cycled most of the way up Yad Moss but not the cobbled bit in Alston).  Anything more results in a rest or a walk.  200km times are 11 to 12 hours with my s fastest being 10 hours and my slowest HC. (included crash, concussion etc) about 15 hours.  I see myself as a decadent rouleur, do OK on the flat, dreadful on the hills (the up ones) and worse when I am sleep deprived.  I am not that fast on descent either having taken Leith Hill in a horizontal attitude (twice).  On the flat with low/no wind average about 25 to 30 kph depending on where I am in a ride.
Les
Too much sanity may be madness. And maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be.”
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Re: Trike or bike dilemma
« Reply #24 on: 31 January, 2016, 01:31:28 pm »
 Ely Dave rides 'fast' enough to see recumbent energy saving benefit by virtue of aero advantage. Those advantages increase as riding power output increases and can be very noticeable for a faster rider. A proper fit recumbenteer will cruise very fast indeed on the flat - easily matching a fit peloton. The fitter, the faster and faster. But you have to be in shape to do that.
It is a very different picture though if not fast, or carrying weight/aerobic weakness that hampers climbing. As many recumbenters are of course, having gone dark for reasons of fitness etc.
If you are in that club - Overall you will be slower, and very much so on terrain, poor roads, or in the wet. Hills can be very hard going under those circumstances, hauling heavy bod and bike, and once ground to a breathless halt with steam coming out of the ears,  you won't restart on a 2 wheeler, due to the slow speed balance.
I speak from experience having been both the fit fast guy and the heavier less fit guy. My SL2 is hard aerobic work for me now, but used to be a rocket. I climb just above stall speed and dread a slipped gear etc.
So, if you are going to be slow - do it 3 wheels and at least you won't have to walk so much.
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